Date   

Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

JM Casey
 

I was wondering that too, because the menu's name is "bookmarks" -- as in it should actually say that -- it's not a symbol or series of symbols, just a word.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laurie Mehta via Groups.Io
Sent: February 9, 2019 5:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

When you use the alt key are you getting the menus?
Have you tried toggling the F11 key?
-LM
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 2/9/19, MAX <max@maxsmusicplace.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Saturday, February 9, 2019, 1:58 PM

#yiv3394914628
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#yiv3394914628 OK. Here is a list of everything I see in the fire fox open menu. Sine into synk. Content blocking standard. New window. New private window. Restore previous session. Zoom 100% Edit. Library Add-ons. Options. Customize. Open file. Save page as. Print. Find in this page. More. Web developer. Help. Exit exit fire fox. I see nothing there that seems related to bookmarks. Find in this page seems to be on the right track for searching bookmarks but it searches the current page as you might expect. 73 (Regards). Max K 4 O D S. I've Never Lost the Wonder. Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/ From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 12:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
Not only is it not an “easter
egg”, but it’s one of the choices right there in the menu bar that’s at the top of the screen in every version of the programme.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
<nvda@nvda.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Gene
Sent:
February 9, 2019 1:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
I'm sorry you misinterpreted
my comment. I'm saying that you assumed you couldn't manage book marks. Instead of assuming, if you ask here or use some sort of documentation or instructional material, you will save yourself time and trouble, perhaps a lot. I'm speaking in general, concerning programs and Windows. It isn't an easter egg. There is nothing hidden about this. It is common to have context menus in various structures of a program. I don't know how sighted people learn this. I learned it because, whenever I want to see how to do something more easily or where there appears to be no way, if I am in a list or a menu, I look through the context menu.
Gene----- Original Message
-----From: MAX
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:46
AMTo: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
Hi
Gene.
You have been mostly helpful to me
in the past so I’ll be civil to you. If you understand how I work with a computer and screen reader maybe you’ll be a little more understanding.
I
have some vision and a magnifying glass mounted in glasses frames so I can use it hands free. It helped me get through the university of Florida E E program, 35 years of employment, and it still serves me in retirement. Using this magnifier I can see the contents of a circle about ½ inch in diameter. I can see icons and the contents of menus. If I have more than 3 or 4 words to read I turn the job over to a screen reader. Most makers of screen readers assume that people are totally sighted or totally blind with nobody between. I think the statistics of blind and visually impaired say just the opposite. I am aware that nvda developers have acknowledged this through the mouse tracking feature. I have it turned on and use it all the time. The play audio coordinates when mouse moves would be useful to me if the tones were not so loud. I couldn’t find a volume control that would effect only the tones. Sorry for the digression.
Now to the current problem. I
have spent a lot of time visually looking through the menu in fire fox and have never seen the one that is invoked by alt B. How do the fully sighted know about this Easter egg? Now that I know this secret I will use it regularly to manage my bookmarks. Furthermore When I have the bookmarks open nvda reads each line of the menu but makes no distinction between direct links and folders. A fully sighted person can see the menus that pop up on the right side of the list of bookmarks but nvda makes no announcement of folder.
You wrote of a search bookmarks
feature. I haven’t visually seen that one in the menu either. How does it work?

73
(Regards).
Max K 4 O D S.
I've Never Lost the
Wonder.
Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Gene
Sent:
Friday, February 08, 2019 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
What do you mean by the management
is almost nonexistent? You can move bookmarks around in Firefox. I assume you can in Chrome as well. Instead of assuming something isn't available or doesn't exist, ask here or get some sort of documentation or tutorial. You'll save yourself a lot of trouble. Open the bookmarks menu with alt b.Move to a bookmark in Firefox. Open the context menu. Down arrow to cut. Press enter.Then move to where you want the bookmark to be. Open the context menu and find paste. Press enter.The bookmark has been moved.However, I almost never move or organize bookmarks in Firefox because of the very good search for bookmarks feature. If you are interested, I'll describe it. Gene----- Original Message
-----From: MAX
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 10:01
PMTo: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
The management of favorites in
chrome and Firefox is almost nonexistent. I use explorer to update and manage my favorites file. Why can’t programmers leave things alone. Especially things that work.

73 (Regards).
Max K 4 O D S.
I've Never Lost the
Wonder.
Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Gene
Sent:
Friday, February 08, 2019 8:39 PM
To:
nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
You may not find ways that work as
well to use those sites. You may continue using Internet Explorer with them. It’s the browser you use as the main browser that is the issue, not the browser you use for occasional accessibility purposes with this or that site.
Gene----- Original Message
-----From: Rosemarie ChavarrFrom:
nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Clarissa Mitchell
Sent: Friday,
February 8, 2019 5:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

I hardly use IE anymore at
all. For me, it's either Chrome or Firefox.
There were one or two site-specific functions I still had to use IE for because of one thing or another, but I'm going to find a way to access those sites with Chrome, which is my main browser. I'm still working on that. I haven't used IE as my main browser in ages. I don't understand why people are even still using that browser; it's outdated and, at least on my more recent computers, slow as a snail! To me, there's really not that much difference in using one of the other browsers, from a screen reader standpoint anyway. You can still use a lot of the same navigation commands. I don't know about Edge; I haven't used it much, but as far as I can tell, Chrome and Firefox work great with NVDA.

On 2/8/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Article that came out today in
The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:
>
> Stop using Internet
Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security > chief ( > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-
>
explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/
> )
>
> If that doesn't convince people that
the shelf life of IE is now
> expired,
nothing will.
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10
Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 > > *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the > need for illusion is deep.* > > ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back > > > >


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 06:46 PM, MAX wrote:
I’m not used to using web wide search engines to find information about a specific program.  Apparently it works better than searching within the program’s own help system. 
Some of my dearest friends are over 70 and 80, so the age thing carries no weight with me.

You have, however, hit upon a really valuable piece of information, that deserves reinforcement:  It most often works better to do a web search, using either reasonable keywords or an actual natural question, to get information on specific programs and features.  There are tons of people who've "been where you are now" no matter the you or the where, and a great many have generated tutorials or just descriptions of what they did that will generally be far more helpful than quite a few formal help systems are.

Not that one shouldn't avail oneself of a given program's help, too, but I generally go there second because finding things can be challenging - often times unnecessarily so.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

molly the blind tech lover
 

I just looked and apparently my computer has the sapi 5 voices. I’m not going to use them though.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annette Moore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 7:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

 

It's a OneCore voice here. I've never used SAPI5. I accidentally hit enter on it in the synth choices the other night and all it kept saying was, "Please register this product." Lord have mercy, I thought I was never going to get out of that! I actually had to use System Access to read me the NVDA menu so I could switch synthesizers. I was very close to asking you guys for help because I couldn't get anywhere! Nowhere! that was scary. And when I used Narrator and tried to switch synths, it said, "This is not a narrator command." The only thing I can think is that I used to have Office 365 on here and quit using it because all I was using it for was Outlook and Thunderbird is just as good and free, and that's how SAPI5 must've been available, though back then I never used NVDA. In any case, that was more than you wanted to know. I couldn't try SAPI5 if I wanted to, and I hope I never accidentally hit enter on that crazy synthe choice again because that was tough to get out of.

Annette

On 2/9/2019 2:46 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 02:51 PM, Annette Moore wrote:

OneCore Zira

I thought Zira was a SAPI5 voice?   If there's another version of her under OneCore I'd be curious to hear it.

I've been using Microsoft James, OneCore - the British accented male voice (or one of them, anyway).  I also liked David and Richard, though I think they both are SAPI5 voices.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

Annette Moore
 

It's a OneCore voice here. I've never used SAPI5. I accidentally hit enter on it in the synth choices the other night and all it kept saying was, "Please register this product." Lord have mercy, I thought I was never going to get out of that! I actually had to use System Access to read me the NVDA menu so I could switch synthesizers. I was very close to asking you guys for help because I couldn't get anywhere! Nowhere! that was scary. And when I used Narrator and tried to switch synths, it said, "This is not a narrator command." The only thing I can think is that I used to have Office 365 on here and quit using it because all I was using it for was Outlook and Thunderbird is just as good and free, and that's how SAPI5 must've been available, though back then I never used NVDA. In any case, that was more than you wanted to know. I couldn't try SAPI5 if I wanted to, and I hope I never accidentally hit enter on that crazy synthe choice again because that was tough to get out of.

Annette

On 2/9/2019 2:46 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 02:51 PM, Annette Moore wrote:
OneCore Zira
I thought Zira was a SAPI5 voice?   If there's another version of her under OneCore I'd be curious to hear it.

I've been using Microsoft James, OneCore - the British accented male voice (or one of them, anyway).  I also liked David and Richard, though I think they both are SAPI5 voices.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Gene
 

Also, a correction or addition needs to be made to an earlier message by another list member.  In the desktop keyboard layout, the way you move through the different modes is to hold numpad insert and while doing so, press numpad 7 to move forward through the selections and numpad 1 to move back. 
 
I don't know the laptop layout commands and those may be what were given.  But if you are using the desktop layout, the default, layout, the numpad commands I gave are for switching review modes.
 

Gene
----- Original message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

The equivalent to the JAWS cursor is screen review mode.  There is also object navigation which, according to what I've heard and read is equivalent to the touch cursor in NVDA.  To read about screen review, you can look at the user guide
 
You can look at the user guide for information about object navigation but you would probably be better off using a tutorial.  I'll let list members discuss which tutorial they like that deals with the subject. 
 
You can click the mouse once you move to something using object navigation or screen review mode.  Use the command NVDA key slash, the mouse left click key in JAWS and NVDA.  That moves the mouse to your current position in object navigation or screen review, whichever you are using.  Then press slash again, which iss left click, as I said.
 
I can tell you where to look in the user manual but if you want me to, ask and I'll do so in another message.  I'd have to look it up. 
 
Also, if you don't know them, you need to know screen review keys such as numpad 8 read current line in review, numpad 7, move to and read previous line. and the rest.
 
Also, remember to always go back to object navigation after using screen review.  Certain things won't work as they should if you don't.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Jed Barton
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

Hey guys,
so i guess what i'm trying to figure out here, ya know in jaws we have
the PC and jaws cursor.  Does such an animal exist in NVDA?  Obviously
there are some things we can access in jaws with the PC cursor, and
some things with the jaws cursor.  Then we have the ability to route
from 1 to the other.  Can we do the same thing in NVDA?

On 2/9/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 11:54 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>
>>
>> Unfortunately, I know of no way of efficiently navigating with the mouse
>> in NVDA, using the keyboard. If there is, again, I'd love to hear it.
>
> Please expand on what you are using in JAWS.   One of the things I think is
> (or at least was) better in NVDA was how it worked in conjunction with the
> mouse.
>
> I'm trying to figure out what it is you're using that NVDA lacks, whether in
> native form or by installing any of several different add-ons.
>
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
> *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for
> illusion is deep.*
>
>           ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>



Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

MAX <max@...>
 

Thanks to help from you and others I have figured it out.  I’m not happy with the modern way of doing menus but I know they aren’t going to change it because of that.  The point is moot so let’s close out this branch of the Microsoft’s own etc. thread.   For my part I’m not going to answer any more messages in this thread.  Thank you to all who helped and tried to help.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 6:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

I'm not sure what you are describing.  If you press alt and right arrow through the menu titles, you should find a book marks menu.  If you don't, I'm not sure why but perhaps maximizing the program would show it. 

 

Have you created any book marks with the word help as part of the title?  If you search for the word help, the list will show any bookmark with the letters help in it, whether those letters occur at the beginning, middle, or end, anywhere in the string of characters. 

 

It sounds to me as though you may be trying to search the help system instead of bookmarks but I can't tell just what you are doing.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 3:31 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Hi Gene.

 

I called it up the way you told me.  Obviously the bookmarks aren’t secret but they must be called something else in the menu because there is nothing called bookmarks in the Firefox open menu.  I did find this time that if I down arrow through the list nvda does announce sub menu on items marked with a folder icon.  I tried to find out on my own how to search for something in the bookmarks.  I selected help and typed search in bookmarks.  The list of topics seemed only tangentially  related to my question.  That has been my experience with help files in general ever since I started using a PC.  It seems I don’t type the correct words to bring up the correct help file.  So please tell me how to search the bookmarks beginning at the beginning.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 12:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

As far as folder, I don't know how you are opening book marks.  If you open them the way I described, I think it presents a structure like that in Internet Explorer.  But as I said, and I'll add a bit here, if you want to find a bookmark and you remember a word or phrase that won't be repeated at all or much in other bookmarks, you can use the search bookmarks feature.  You can type, for example, rk times or rk and the letters ti to find new york times bookmarks.  I'll explain the feature more if you want to know. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:46 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Hi Gene.

 

You have been mostly helpful to me in the past so I’ll be civil to you.  If you understand how I work with a computer and screen reader maybe you’ll be a little more understanding. 

 

I have some vision and a magnifying glass mounted in glasses frames so I can use it hands free.  It helped me get through the university of Florida E E program, 35 years of employment, and it still serves me in retirement.   Using this magnifier I can see the contents of a circle about ½ inch in diameter.  I can see icons and the contents of menus.  If I have more than 3 or 4 words to read I turn the job over to a screen reader.  Most makers of screen readers assume that people are totally sighted or totally blind with nobody between.  I think the statistics of blind and visually impaired say just the opposite.  I am aware that nvda developers have acknowledged this through the mouse tracking feature.  I have it turned on and use it all the time.  The play audio coordinates when mouse moves would be useful to me if the tones were not so loud.  I couldn’t find a volume control that would effect only the tones.  Sorry for the digression. 

 

Now to the current problem.  I have spent a lot of time visually looking through the menu in fire fox and have never seen the one that is invoked by alt B.  How do the fully sighted know about this Easter egg?  Now that I know this secret I will use it regularly to manage my bookmarks.  Furthermore When I have the bookmarks open nvda reads each line of the menu but makes no distinction between direct links and folders.  A fully sighted person can see the menus that pop up on the right side of the list of bookmarks but nvda makes no announcement of folder.

 

You wrote of a search bookmarks feature.  I haven’t visually seen  that one in the menu either.  How does it work? 

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

What do you mean by the management is almost nonexistent?  You can move bookmarks around in Firefox.  I assume you can in Chrome as well.  Instead of assuming something isn't available or doesn't exist, ask here or get some sort of documentation or tutorial.  You'll save yourself a lot of trouble.

 

Open the bookmarks menu with alt b.

Move to a bookmark in Firefox.  Open the context menu.  Down arrow to cut.  Press enter.

Then move to where you want the bookmark to be.  Open the context menu and find paste.  Press enter.

The bookmark has been moved.

However, I almost never move or organize bookmarks in Firefox because of the very good search for bookmarks feature.  If you are interested, I'll describe it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 10:01 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

The management of favorites in chrome and Firefox is almost nonexistent.  I use explorer to update and manage my favorites file.   Why can’t programmers leave things alone. Especially things that work.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 8:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

You may not find ways that work as well to use those sites.  You may continue using Internet Explorer with them.  It’s the browser you use as the main browser that is the issue, not the browser you use for occasional accessibility purposes with this or that site. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rosemarie ChavarrFrom: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clarissa Mitchell
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 5:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

I hardly use IE anymore at all. For me, it's either Chrome or Firefox.
There were one or two site-specific functions I still had to use IE for because of one thing or another, but I'm going to find a way to access those sites with Chrome, which is my main browser. I'm still working on that. I haven't used IE as my main browser in ages. I don't understand why people are even still using that browser; it's outdated and, at least on my more recent computers, slow as a snail! To me, there's really not that much difference in using one of the other browsers, from a screen reader standpoint anyway. You can still use a lot of the same navigation commands. I don't know about Edge; I haven't used it much, but as far as I can tell, Chrome and Firefox work great with NVDA.

On 2/8/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:
>
>           Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security
> chief (
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-
> explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/
> )
>
> If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now
> expired, nothing will.
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
> *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
> need for illusion is deep.*
>
>           ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>



Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Gene
 

The menu you see isn't any menu in the main interface and I'm not sure how you are getting to it.  If you press alt and then right arrow and you don't move to five or six menu titles, one of them being book marks, then try maximizing the program.  If that doesn't let you see the menus, I don't know why you are seeing what you are describing.  How are you getting to the menu?
 
Gene

-----Original Message -----
From: MAX
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

I would never have thought of finding bookmarks under library.  I must admit that my method of working does complicate things for me.  If I had not hovered the mouse over the three vertical lines with a slanted line next to them I would never have known that this symbol means library.  All these cute little symbols make it hard for someone who has been using words for 30 years and suddenly someone decides that words are right out and symbols are in.  They probably have meaning to those who thought them up but a few lines that look like modern art don’t necessarily have meaning to everyone.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

In Firefox, Bookmarks can be found under the Library category from the main menu button or via the Firefox conventional menu, which can be invoked by hitting ALT.  Bookmarks is one of the primary entries, and its shortcut is ALT+B.

CTRL+SHIFT+B shows all bookmarks in the Bookmark Manager (which has the dialog title, Library - this is my favorite access method, much like File Explorer)

CTRL+D bookmarks the page you're currently viewing.

CTRL+SHIFT+D bookmarks all open tabs
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Ron Canazzi
 

The keystroke to invoke the bookmarks menu in Firefox is alt+ B that is alt + Bravo.


Under this menu, there are the following items.

Show All Bookmarks Ctrl+Shift+B
Bookmark this page ctrl+D
bookmark all tabs

bookmarks toolbar sub menu
other bookmarks
recent bookmarks
Other bookmarks
get bookmark add ons


After these default listings come your bookmarks: folders first followed by individual bookmarks.


To get the whole list of bookmarks you have saved, the keystroke (which has been stated in other messages in this thread) is control + shift + B.


This last keystroke brings up your bookmarks list in a separate browser window with the default items and the folder in a tree view and the bookmarks within each folder in a list view which you access by pressing the tab key once from the tree view.  If you have no folder in your bookmarks list, then the individual bookmarks are in the list view under the bookmarks default folder one tab press from the tree view.


This is about as detailed a description as one can give of just how to access bookmarks in Firefox and how to manipulate them.  I hope this helps.


On 2/9/2019 4:58 PM, MAX wrote:

OK.  Here is a list of everything I see in the fire fox open menu.

 

              Sine into synk.

              Content blocking standard.

              New window.

              New private  window.

              Restore previous session.

              Zoom 100%

              Edit.

              Library

              Add-ons.

              Options.

              Customize.

              Open file.

              Save page as.

              Print.

              Find in this page.

              More.

              Web developer.

              Help.

              Exit exit fire fox.

 

I see nothing there that seems related to bookmarks. 

Find in this page seems to be on the right track for searching bookmarks but it searches the current page as you might expect.

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 12:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Not only is it not an “easter egg”, but it’s one of the choices right there in the menu bar that’s at the top of the screen in every version of the programme.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: February 9, 2019 1:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

I'm sorry you misinterpreted my comment.  I'm saying that you assumed you couldn't manage book marks.  Instead of assuming, if you ask here or use some sort of documentation or instructional material, you will save yourself time and trouble, perhaps a lot.  I'm speaking in general, concerning programs and Windows.

 

It isn't an easter egg.  There is nothing hidden about this.  It is common to have context menus in various structures of a program.

 

I don't know how sighted people learn this.  I learned it because, whenever I want to see how to do something more easily or where there appears to be no way, if I am in a list or a menu, I look through the context menu. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:46 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Hi Gene.

 

You have been mostly helpful to me in the past so I’ll be civil to you.  If you understand how I work with a computer and screen reader maybe you’ll be a little more understanding. 

 

I have some vision and a magnifying glass mounted in glasses frames so I can use it hands free.  It helped me get through the university of Florida E E program, 35 years of employment, and it still serves me in retirement.   Using this magnifier I can see the contents of a circle about ½ inch in diameter.  I can see icons and the contents of menus.  If I have more than 3 or 4 words to read I turn the job over to a screen reader.  Most makers of screen readers assume that people are totally sighted or totally blind with nobody between.  I think the statistics of blind and visually impaired say just the opposite.  I am aware that nvda developers have acknowledged this through the mouse tracking feature.  I have it turned on and use it all the time.  The play audio coordinates when mouse moves would be useful to me if the tones were not so loud.  I couldn’t find a volume control that would effect only the tones.  Sorry for the digression. 

 

Now to the current problem.  I have spent a lot of time visually looking through the menu in fire fox and have never seen the one that is invoked by alt B.  How do the fully sighted know about this Easter egg?  Now that I know this secret I will use it regularly to manage my bookmarks.  Furthermore When I have the bookmarks open nvda reads each line of the menu but makes no distinction between direct links and folders.  A fully sighted person can see the menus that pop up on the right side of the list of bookmarks but nvda makes no announcement of folder.

 

You wrote of a search bookmarks feature.  I haven’t visually seen  that one in the menu either.  How does it work? 

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

What do you mean by the management is almost nonexistent?  You can move bookmarks around in Firefox.  I assume you can in Chrome as well.  Instead of assuming something isn't available or doesn't exist, ask here or get some sort of documentation or tutorial.  You'll save yourself a lot of trouble.

 

Open the bookmarks menu with alt b.

Move to a bookmark in Firefox.  Open the context menu.  Down arrow to cut.  Press enter.

Then move to where you want the bookmark to be.  Open the context menu and find paste.  Press enter.

The bookmark has been moved.

However, I almost never move or organize bookmarks in Firefox because of the very good search for bookmarks feature.  If you are interested, I'll describe it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 10:01 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

The management of favorites in chrome and Firefox is almost nonexistent.  I use explorer to update and manage my favorites file.   Why can’t programmers leave things alone. Especially things that work.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 8:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

You may not find ways that work as well to use those sites.  You may continue using Internet Explorer with them.  It’s the browser you use as the main browser that is the issue, not the browser you use for occasional accessibility purposes with this or that site. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rosemarie ChavarrFrom: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clarissa Mitchell
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 5:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

I hardly use IE anymore at all. For me, it's either Chrome or Firefox.
There were one or two site-specific functions I still had to use IE for because of one thing or another, but I'm going to find a way to access those sites with Chrome, which is my main browser. I'm still working on that. I haven't used IE as my main browser in ages. I don't understand why people are even still using that browser; it's outdated and, at least on my more recent computers, slow as a snail! To me, there's really not that much difference in using one of the other browsers, from a screen reader standpoint anyway. You can still use a lot of the same navigation commands. I don't know about Edge; I haven't used it much, but as far as I can tell, Chrome and Firefox work great with NVDA.

On 2/8/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:
>
>           Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security
> chief (
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-
> explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/
> )
>
> If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now
> expired, nothing will.
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
> *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
> need for illusion is deep.*
>
>           ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Gene
 

I'm not sure what you are describing.  If you press alt and right arrow through the menu titles, you should find a book marks menu.  If you don't, I'm not sure why but perhaps maximizing the program would show it. 
 
Have you created any book marks with the word help as part of the title?  If you search for the word help, the list will show any bookmark with the letters help in it, whether those letters occur at the beginning, middle, or end, anywhere in the string of characters. 
 
It sounds to me as though you may be trying to search the help system instead of bookmarks but I can't tell just what you are doing.
 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: MAX
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Hi Gene.

 

I called it up the way you told me.  Obviously the bookmarks aren’t secret but they must be called something else in the menu because there is nothing called bookmarks in the Firefox open menu.  I did find this time that if I down arrow through the list nvda does announce sub menu on items marked with a folder icon.  I tried to find out on my own how to search for something in the bookmarks.  I selected help and typed search in bookmarks.  The list of topics seemed only tangentially  related to my question.  That has been my experience with help files in general ever since I started using a PC.  It seems I don’t type the correct words to bring up the correct help file.  So please tell me how to search the bookmarks beginning at the beginning.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 12:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

As far as folder, I don't know how you are opening book marks.  If you open them the way I described, I think it presents a structure like that in Internet Explorer.  But as I said, and I'll add a bit here, if you want to find a bookmark and you remember a word or phrase that won't be repeated at all or much in other bookmarks, you can use the search bookmarks feature.  You can type, for example, rk times or rk and the letters ti to find new york times bookmarks.  I'll explain the feature more if you want to know. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:46 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Hi Gene.

 

You have been mostly helpful to me in the past so I’ll be civil to you.  If you understand how I work with a computer and screen reader maybe you’ll be a little more understanding. 

 

I have some vision and a magnifying glass mounted in glasses frames so I can use it hands free.  It helped me get through the university of Florida E E program, 35 years of employment, and it still serves me in retirement.   Using this magnifier I can see the contents of a circle about ½ inch in diameter.  I can see icons and the contents of menus.  If I have more than 3 or 4 words to read I turn the job over to a screen reader.  Most makers of screen readers assume that people are totally sighted or totally blind with nobody between.  I think the statistics of blind and visually impaired say just the opposite.  I am aware that nvda developers have acknowledged this through the mouse tracking feature.  I have it turned on and use it all the time.  The play audio coordinates when mouse moves would be useful to me if the tones were not so loud.  I couldn’t find a volume control that would effect only the tones.  Sorry for the digression. 

 

Now to the current problem.  I have spent a lot of time visually looking through the menu in fire fox and have never seen the one that is invoked by alt B.  How do the fully sighted know about this Easter egg?  Now that I know this secret I will use it regularly to manage my bookmarks.  Furthermore When I have the bookmarks open nvda reads each line of the menu but makes no distinction between direct links and folders.  A fully sighted person can see the menus that pop up on the right side of the list of bookmarks but nvda makes no announcement of folder.

 

You wrote of a search bookmarks feature.  I haven’t visually seen  that one in the menu either.  How does it work? 

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

What do you mean by the management is almost nonexistent?  You can move bookmarks around in Firefox.  I assume you can in Chrome as well.  Instead of assuming something isn't available or doesn't exist, ask here or get some sort of documentation or tutorial.  You'll save yourself a lot of trouble.

 

Open the bookmarks menu with alt b.

Move to a bookmark in Firefox.  Open the context menu.  Down arrow to cut.  Press enter.

Then move to where you want the bookmark to be.  Open the context menu and find paste.  Press enter.

The bookmark has been moved.

However, I almost never move or organize bookmarks in Firefox because of the very good search for bookmarks feature.  If you are interested, I'll describe it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 10:01 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

The management of favorites in chrome and Firefox is almost nonexistent.  I use explorer to update and manage my favorites file.   Why can’t programmers leave things alone. Especially things that work.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 8:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

You may not find ways that work as well to use those sites.  You may continue using Internet Explorer with them.  It’s the browser you use as the main browser that is the issue, not the browser you use for occasional accessibility purposes with this or that site. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rosemarie ChavarrFrom: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clarissa Mitchell
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 5:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

I hardly use IE anymore at all. For me, it's either Chrome or Firefox.
There were one or two site-specific functions I still had to use IE for because of one thing or another, but I'm going to find a way to access those sites with Chrome, which is my main browser. I'm still working on that. I haven't used IE as my main browser in ages. I don't understand why people are even still using that browser; it's outdated and, at least on my more recent computers, slow as a snail! To me, there's really not that much difference in using one of the other browsers, from a screen reader standpoint anyway. You can still use a lot of the same navigation commands. I don't know about Edge; I haven't used it much, but as far as I can tell, Chrome and Firefox work great with NVDA.

On 2/8/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:
>
>           Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security
> chief (
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-
> explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/
> )
>
> If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now
> expired, nothing will.
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
> *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
> need for illusion is deep.*
>
>           ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>




Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

MAX <max@...>
 

I would never have thought of finding bookmarks under library.  I must admit that my method of working does complicate things for me.  If I had not hovered the mouse over the three vertical lines with a slanted line next to them I would never have known that this symbol means library.  All these cute little symbols make it hard for someone who has been using words for 30 years and suddenly someone decides that words are right out and symbols are in.  They probably have meaning to those who thought them up but a few lines that look like modern art don’t necessarily have meaning to everyone.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

In Firefox, Bookmarks can be found under the Library category from the main menu button or via the Firefox conventional menu, which can be invoked by hitting ALT.  Bookmarks is one of the primary entries, and its shortcut is ALT+B.

CTRL+SHIFT+B shows all bookmarks in the Bookmark Manager (which has the dialog title, Library - this is my favorite access method, much like File Explorer)

CTRL+D bookmarks the page you're currently viewing.

CTRL+SHIFT+D bookmarks all open tabs
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Is NVDA Really Dying?

Pascal Lambert <coccinelle86@...>
 

Hi,
I really doubt NVDA will die anytime soon. There many blind people around the world that cannot afford to buy Jaws and pay for the updates. As for Narrator, the hardware requirements for Windows 10 will make the computer very expensive to acquire for many blind people. This said, NVDA, in spite of its sputtering and silences at times which happens, from what I observe, when a windows major update is push through, is still a very reliable screen reader and allows me to accomplish all the tasks I need on Excel, MS Word, Outlook 2013 Professional, navigate the net, access my bank accounts and so on. I am also grateful to the members of this list that have been very kind and helpful when I run into glitches. I tried to get familiar with Narrator, but thus far, I haven’t much luck and did not dedicate the necessary time to do it since I am fairly satisfied with what NVDA allows me to accomplish.
Let us all make the effort to donate a bit more so the NVDA team can continue making NVDA a reliable available tool for many thousands of blind persons who cannot afford the other alternatives.
Regards
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Wells
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 2:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA Really Dying?

So, I suppose the next question is: Is the "NVDA Really Dying thread really dying?

On 2/8/2019 5:07 PM, Chris Shook wrote:
Back in the old days, threads like this would be how legends got started.
Now adays
, it just starts unpleasant rumors.
In my opinion, we'll probably get ample warning when they start
phasing out screen readers.
Now, I think I'm going to try this mute thread thing Talk to you'll
soon.
Chris



Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

MAX <max@...>
 

/The links you sent were helpful.  You can criticize  me for not knowing certain things but just wait till you get to be my age.  You’ll understand then.  I’m not used to using web wide search engines to find information about a specific program.  Apparently it works better than searching within the program’s own help system. 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 1:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 01:55 PM, JM Casey wrote:

Not only is it not an “easter egg”, but it’s one of the choices right there in the menu bar that’s at the top of the screen in every version of the programme.

I may have turned it off, but I no longer have the Bookmarks toolbar on either Firefox or Chrome because I find them a waste of space.

It is, however, a given that any web browser has a bookmarking mechanism, and with the exception of IE (and maybe Edge) every one of them uses the terminology, bookmarks.

I am sighted, and I've been using web browsers since they first came into existence, and I have no recollection about how I came to know about favorites/bookmarks at this juncture.  But once I knew they were a standard feature of any web browser, a quick web search on the browser name and the word "bookmarks" returns more documentation on how to use them for that browser than you will ever be able to plow through (or would want to).  For example:

                    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=chrome+bookmarks

                    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=firefox+bookmarks

                    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=opera+bookmarks

                    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=waterfox+bookmarks 

and so on and so on and so on.

I'm sorry, but anyone who has been using the internet for decades, regardless of whether they can see or not, should know how to do a simple web search for information this basic (and significantly less basic).   This is an essential skill that I cannot fathom anyone who browses the web not having learned how to do, and early.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

 

Em 09/02/2019 17:03, Brian Vogel escreveu:
It's like trying to run a GUI web browser under DOS - it just isn't gonna happen.
Wondering whether I was the only one trying to really imagine this situation. It'd really... odd. LOL

Cheers,


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 04:58 PM, MAX wrote:
I see nothing there that seems related to bookmarks.
And, apparently, couldn't bother to read through the topic before posting this.  I already answered your questions about 7 minutes earlier, with a lot more detail as well.

Think of where books reside . . .
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Tony Malykh
 

I think what you would like to know is how to switch between the equivalent of PC Cursor (which is I believe called System Focus in NVDA) and equivalent of Jaws cursor (which is called review cursor or review mode in NVDA). If that's your question, then here is the answer. You don't have to switch between them in NVDA - they coexist. You just use the main inverted T-shaped arrow keys to move system focus and you can use numpad keys to move review cursor. Typically, you only need to use review mode cursor only in places where system focus cannot go. Review cursor is tethered to system cursor by default. Also the numpad keystrokes to control review cursor are very different from Jaws numpad keystrokes, but you can read more in NVDA documentation. Other than that, the two modes in Jaws and NVDA are very similar.

HTH

--Tony

On 2/9/2019 10:52 AM, Jed Barton wrote:
how do you go between object and screen navigation?

On 2/9/19, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
The equivalent to the JAWS cursor is screen review mode. There is also
object navigation which, according to what I've heard and read is equivalent
to the touch cursor in NVDA. To read about screen review, you can look at
the user guide

You can look at the user guide for information about object navigation but
you would probably be better off using a tutorial. I'll let list members
discuss which tutorial they like that deals with the subject.

You can click the mouse once you move to something using object navigation
or screen review mode. Use the command NVDA key slash, the mouse left click
key in JAWS and NVDA. That moves the mouse to your current position in
object navigation or screen review, whichever you are using. Then press
slash again, which iss left click, as I said.

I can tell you where to look in the user manual but if you want me to, ask
and I'll do so in another message. I'd have to look it up.

Also, if you don't know them, you need to know screen review keys such as
numpad 8 read current line in review, numpad 7, move to and read previous
line. and the rest.

Also, remember to always go back to object navigation after using screen
review. Certain things won't work as they should if you don't.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Jed Barton
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions


Hey guys,
so i guess what i'm trying to figure out here, ya know in jaws we have
the PC and jaws cursor. Does such an animal exist in NVDA? Obviously
there are some things we can access in jaws with the PC cursor, and
some things with the jaws cursor. Then we have the ability to route
from 1 to the other. Can we do the same thing in NVDA?

On 2/9/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 11:54 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Unfortunately, I know of no way of efficiently navigating with the mouse
in NVDA, using the keyboard. If there is, again, I'd love to hear it.
Please expand on what you are using in JAWS. One of the things I think
is
(or at least was) better in NVDA was how it worked in conjunction with
the
mouse.

I'm trying to figure out what it is you're using that NVDA lacks, whether
in
native form or by installing any of several different add-ons.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need
for
illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back







Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Laurie Mehta
 

When you use the alt key are you getting the menus?
Have you tried toggling the F11 key?
-LM
--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 2/9/19, MAX <max@maxsmusicplace.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Saturday, February 9, 2019, 1:58 PM

#yiv3394914628
#yiv3394914628 --

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#yiv3394914628 OK.  Here is a list of everything
I see in the fire fox open menu.                Sine
into synk.              Content
blocking standard.              New
window.              New
private  window.              Restore
previous session.              Zoom
100%             
Edit.             
Library             
Add-ons.             
Options.             
Customize.              Open
file.              Save
page as.             
Print.              Find in
this page.             
More.              Web
developer.             
Help.              Exit
exit fire fox.  I see nothing there that seems
related to bookmarks.  Find in this page seems to be on
the right track for searching bookmarks but it searches the
current page as you might expect.  73 (Regards).  Max K 4 O D S.  I've Never Lost the
Wonder.  Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/    From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 12:55
PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet
Explorer
 Not only is it not an “easter
egg”, but it’s one of the choices right there in the
menu bar that’s at the top of the screen in every version
of the programme.
 From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
<nvda@nvda.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Gene
Sent:
February 9, 2019 1:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet
Explorer
 I'm sorry you misinterpreted
my comment.  I'm saying that you assumed you
couldn't manage book marks.  Instead of assuming, if
you ask here or use some sort of documentation or
instructional material, you will save yourself time and
trouble, perhaps a lot.  I'm speaking in general,
concerning programs and Windows. It
isn't an easter egg.  There is nothing hidden about
this.  It is common to have context menus in various
structures of a program. I
don't know how sighted people learn this.  I learned it
because, whenever I want to see how to do something more
easily or where there appears to be no way, if I am in a
list or a menu, I look through the context menu. 
 Gene----- Original Message
-----From: MAX
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:46
AMTo: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet
Explorer
 Hi
Gene.
 You have been mostly helpful to me
in the past so I’ll be civil to you.  If you understand
how I work with a computer and screen reader maybe you’ll
be a little more understanding. 
 I
have some vision and a magnifying glass mounted in glasses
frames so I can use it hands free.  It helped me get
through the university of Florida E E program, 35 years of
employment, and it still serves me in retirement.   Using
this magnifier I can see the contents of a circle about ½
inch in diameter.  I can see icons and the contents of
menus.  If I have more than 3 or 4 words to read I turn the
job over to a screen reader.  Most makers of screen readers
assume that people are totally sighted or totally blind with
nobody between.  I think the statistics of blind and
visually impaired say just the opposite.  I am aware that
nvda developers have acknowledged this through the mouse
tracking feature.  I have it turned on and use it all the
time.  The play audio coordinates when mouse moves would be
useful to me if the tones were not so loud.  I couldn’t
find a volume control that would effect only the tones. 
Sorry for the digression. 
 Now to the current problem.  I
have spent a lot of time visually looking through the menu
in fire fox and have never seen the one that is invoked by
alt B.  How do the fully sighted know about this Easter
egg?  Now that I know this secret I will use it regularly
to manage my bookmarks.  Furthermore When I have the
bookmarks open nvda reads each line of the menu but makes no
distinction between direct links and folders.  A fully
sighted person can see the menus that pop up on the right
side of the list of bookmarks but nvda makes no announcement
of folder.
 You wrote of a search bookmarks
feature.  I haven’t visually seen  that one in the menu
either.  How does it work? 
 
 73
(Regards).
 Max K 4 O D S.
 I've Never Lost the
Wonder.
 Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/
 
 From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Gene
Sent:
Friday, February 08, 2019 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet
Explorer
 What do you mean by the management
is almost nonexistent?  You can move bookmarks around in
Firefox.  I assume you can in Chrome as well.  Instead of
assuming something isn't available or doesn't exist,
ask here or get some sort of documentation or tutorial. 
You'll save yourself a lot of
trouble. Open the bookmarks menu with alt
b.Move to a bookmark in Firefox. 
Open the context menu.  Down arrow to cut.  Press
enter.Then move to where you want the
bookmark to be.  Open the context menu and find paste. 
Press enter.The bookmark has been
moved.However, I almost never move or
organize bookmarks in Firefox because of the very good
search for bookmarks feature.  If you are interested,
I'll describe it. Gene----- Original Message
-----From: MAX
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 10:01
PMTo: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet
Explorer
 The management of favorites in
chrome and Firefox is almost nonexistent.  I use explorer
to update and manage my favorites file.   Why can’t
programmers leave things alone. Especially things that
work.
 
 73 (Regards).
 Max K 4 O D S.
 I've Never Lost the
Wonder.
 Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/
 
 From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Gene
Sent:
Friday, February 08, 2019 8:39 PM
To:
nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet
Explorer
 You may not find ways that work as
well to use those sites.  You may continue using Internet
Explorer with them.  It’s the browser you use as the main
browser that is the issue, not the browser you use for
occasional accessibility purposes with this or that site. 
 Gene----- Original Message
-----From: Rosemarie ChavarrFrom:
nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Clarissa Mitchell
Sent: Friday,
February 8, 2019 5:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

I hardly use IE anymore at
all. For me, it's either Chrome or Firefox.
There were one or two site-specific functions I
still had to use IE for because of one thing or another, but
I'm going to find a way to access those sites with
Chrome, which is my main browser. I'm still working on
that. I haven't used IE as my main browser in ages. I
don't understand why people are even still using that
browser; it's outdated and, at least on my more recent
computers, slow as a snail! To me, there's really not
that much difference in using one of the other browsers,
from a screen reader standpoint anyway. You can still use a
lot of the same navigation commands. I don't know about
Edge; I haven't used it much, but as far as I can tell,
Chrome and Firefox work great with NVDA.

On 2/8/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Article that came out today in
The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:
>
>           Stop using Internet
Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security
> chief (
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-
>
explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/
> )
>
> If that doesn't convince people that
the shelf life of IE is now
> expired,
nothing will.
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10
Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
> *A great deal of
intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
> need for illusion is deep.*
>
>           ~
Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

molly the blind tech lover
 

One time a long time ago when I was using internet explorer this terrible virus popped up. It was talking and it scared me. Obviously I didn't click on it. I've never used internet explorer since then.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jason White via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 5:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Modern browsers are much more carefully designed to be secure (for example, with the multi-process architecture of chrome).


So far as I can recall, Internet Explorer has always had a reputation
for security vulnerabilities. It also does not support modern Web
standards - another reason why the web is moving on, leaving IE behind.


Needless to say, I don't use Internet Explorer. When I'm on Windows,
it's mostly Chrome at the moment.


On 2/9/19 4:53 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
That is though mainly because they have not bothered to actually bring
it up to date. They want everyone to get Windows 10 and use Edge.
On the other hand a lot of the things in IE have been clunky for some
time, so most people I know use Firefox, Water-fox or Chrome most of
the time.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 11:50 PM
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using
Internet Explorer


Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief (
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/
)

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now
expired, nothing will.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
need for illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back







Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Jason White
 

Modern browsers are much more carefully designed to be secure (for example, with the multi-process architecture of chrome).


So far as I can recall, Internet Explorer has always had a reputation for security vulnerabilities. It also does not support modern Web standards - another reason why the web is moving on, leaving IE behind.


Needless to say, I don't use Internet Explorer. When I'm on Windows, it's mostly Chrome at the moment.

On 2/9/19 4:53 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
That is though mainly because they have not bothered to actually bring it up to date. They want everyone to get Windows 10 and use Edge.
On the other hand a lot of the  things in IE have been clunky for some time, so most people I know use Firefox, Water-fox or Chrome most of the time.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 11:50 PM
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer


Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief ( https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/ )

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back






Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

Annette Moore
 

LOL, David! Actually, to me, Mark sounds kind of like a smart alec. I probably need to change his pitch. You know, take him down a few notches? LOL! 😀 He is clear, though.

Annette

On 2/9/2019 2:21 PM, David Moore wrote:

Yes!

I like Microsoft 1 cor Mark much better.

Mark is great!

I don’t like David that well either.

If it was my David Voice you would love it LOL!

David Moore

 

                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Annette Moore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 3:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

 

yeah, David's not bad, but he sounds like he's breathing. Kind of creepy. LOL!

Annette

On 2/9/2019 1:55 PM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

I like the Austtralian female voice I’m using. Can’t think of her name though. Anyway, she’s really responsive. I use her with NVDA. For Narrator I use a male voice coalled Microsoft David.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annette Moore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 2:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

 

I really like OneCore Zira, but I like her best using NVDA. She reads differently--more slowly or something--in Narrator. I mean, when you do the read-to-end command in NVDA, she reads normally, but no matter how fast you have her going in Narrator, reading to end has her reading more--I don't know, monotone maybe?--than she does in NVDA. I've had to add some extra pronunciations in the voice dictionary, but other than that, I really like that voice! It's very clear and I like that.

Annette

On 2/9/2019 10:00 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 06:09 AM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

You might like to try the new Microsoft voices. They're pretty good.

Agreed.  I particularly like the OneCore voices you get if you install additional languages (all English dialects, in my case).  They sound virtually human.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

 


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Tyler Wood
 

Hi,

Alt + b should get you to bookmarks in firefox. This has been around since the beginning, so far as I can tell. I've never seen it disappear.


On 2019-02-09 3:58 p.m., MAX wrote:

OK.  Here is a list of everything I see in the fire fox open menu.

 

              Sine into synk.

              Content blocking standard.

              New window.

              New private  window.

              Restore previous session.

              Zoom 100%

              Edit.

              Library

              Add-ons.

              Options.

              Customize.

              Open file.

              Save page as.

              Print.

              Find in this page.

              More.

              Web developer.

              Help.

              Exit exit fire fox.

 

I see nothing there that seems related to bookmarks. 

Find in this page seems to be on the right track for searching bookmarks but it searches the current page as you might expect.

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 12:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Not only is it not an “easter egg”, but it’s one of the choices right there in the menu bar that’s at the top of the screen in every version of the programme.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: February 9, 2019 1:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

I'm sorry you misinterpreted my comment.  I'm saying that you assumed you couldn't manage book marks.  Instead of assuming, if you ask here or use some sort of documentation or instructional material, you will save yourself time and trouble, perhaps a lot.  I'm speaking in general, concerning programs and Windows.

 

It isn't an easter egg.  There is nothing hidden about this.  It is common to have context menus in various structures of a program.

 

I don't know how sighted people learn this.  I learned it because, whenever I want to see how to do something more easily or where there appears to be no way, if I am in a list or a menu, I look through the context menu. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:46 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Hi Gene.

 

You have been mostly helpful to me in the past so I’ll be civil to you.  If you understand how I work with a computer and screen reader maybe you’ll be a little more understanding. 

 

I have some vision and a magnifying glass mounted in glasses frames so I can use it hands free.  It helped me get through the university of Florida E E program, 35 years of employment, and it still serves me in retirement.   Using this magnifier I can see the contents of a circle about ½ inch in diameter.  I can see icons and the contents of menus.  If I have more than 3 or 4 words to read I turn the job over to a screen reader.  Most makers of screen readers assume that people are totally sighted or totally blind with nobody between.  I think the statistics of blind and visually impaired say just the opposite.  I am aware that nvda developers have acknowledged this through the mouse tracking feature.  I have it turned on and use it all the time.  The play audio coordinates when mouse moves would be useful to me if the tones were not so loud.  I couldn’t find a volume control that would effect only the tones.  Sorry for the digression. 

 

Now to the current problem.  I have spent a lot of time visually looking through the menu in fire fox and have never seen the one that is invoked by alt B.  How do the fully sighted know about this Easter egg?  Now that I know this secret I will use it regularly to manage my bookmarks.  Furthermore When I have the bookmarks open nvda reads each line of the menu but makes no distinction between direct links and folders.  A fully sighted person can see the menus that pop up on the right side of the list of bookmarks but nvda makes no announcement of folder.

 

You wrote of a search bookmarks feature.  I haven’t visually seen  that one in the menu either.  How does it work? 

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

What do you mean by the management is almost nonexistent?  You can move bookmarks around in Firefox.  I assume you can in Chrome as well.  Instead of assuming something isn't available or doesn't exist, ask here or get some sort of documentation or tutorial.  You'll save yourself a lot of trouble.

 

Open the bookmarks menu with alt b.

Move to a bookmark in Firefox.  Open the context menu.  Down arrow to cut.  Press enter.

Then move to where you want the bookmark to be.  Open the context menu and find paste.  Press enter.

The bookmark has been moved.

However, I almost never move or organize bookmarks in Firefox because of the very good search for bookmarks feature.  If you are interested, I'll describe it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 10:01 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

The management of favorites in chrome and Firefox is almost nonexistent.  I use explorer to update and manage my favorites file.   Why can’t programmers leave things alone. Especially things that work.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 8:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

You may not find ways that work as well to use those sites.  You may continue using Internet Explorer with them.  It’s the browser you use as the main browser that is the issue, not the browser you use for occasional accessibility purposes with this or that site. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rosemarie ChavarrFrom: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clarissa Mitchell
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 5:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

I hardly use IE anymore at all. For me, it's either Chrome or Firefox.
There were one or two site-specific functions I still had to use IE for because of one thing or another, but I'm going to find a way to access those sites with Chrome, which is my main browser. I'm still working on that. I haven't used IE as my main browser in ages. I don't understand why people are even still using that browser; it's outdated and, at least on my more recent computers, slow as a snail! To me, there's really not that much difference in using one of the other browsers, from a screen reader standpoint anyway. You can still use a lot of the same navigation commands. I don't know about Edge; I haven't used it much, but as far as I can tell, Chrome and Firefox work great with NVDA.

On 2/8/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:
>
>           Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security
> chief (
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-
> explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/
> )
>
> If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now
> expired, nothing will.
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
> *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
> need for illusion is deep.*
>
>           ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>