Date   

Re: Competition was Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Web sites are a whole other subject. Yes you can have a web site which is so busy that nobody feels happy using it. Even sighted people
Or#

You can have so many advertising streams added from all over the place with nobody checking if their content is going to screw up the good work of the site designer.
or
You can have so many clever effects on a page that really needs to be fast and easy that nearly everyone clicks away.
All commerce and form filling sites need a new standard. The more boring the better standard with all titles in the same place no picture links etc and normal form fields for everything but personal data like passwords and card details.

There is no need for pretty sliding graphics and general clutter with every changing edit field hints drawing the focus away from that place, no tickers on the bottom or carousels of adverts running while you try to fill it in.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sile via Groups.Io" <somodhrain=googlemail.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: Competition was Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?


And then there’s the whole debate about The difference between what is technically accessible and what is practically useable. I’ve been having this debate with Microsoft for years. Even if everything conforms to current WC3 standards, for example, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s easy to use the resulting webpage.

Sile
On Feb 15, 2019, at 4:13 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Not sure how I feel about this myself. To me there seems to be one issue nobody mentions at all. Should we not expect every company to design software so that a manufacturers accessibility tools can work with them out of the box. The problem as you state is a catch 22 one in that we have no access experts working for software companies because we have inaccessible tools to make the software with!

I think the only real reason Jaws still is around is because of attitudes of companies who need or are forced by local laws to have accessible in house software to allow them to employ disabled people.Its expensive but if they actually sent the money they spent on Jaws scripting and the program to invest in a similar thing for nvda. it would actually be cheaper for them. It would be really nice to find as well that Jenny at Microsoft had the clout to say, you cannot release this software as its not been written using Windows API.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message ----- From: "erik burggraaf" <erik@erik-burggraaf.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2019 3:34 PM
Subject: Competition was Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?


The key to this situation as many have said is self-interest. As a programming student, I have a lot of computers around my house. my personal preference is for Mac, but the college is using absolutely nothing but visual studio for Windows. The complete Monopoly of visual studio in the college is extremely frustrating to me. Microsoft, for all its vaunted accessibility spending, still builds apps the way they did in the early 2000. Accessibility continues to be an afterthought despite millions of dollars spent on artificial intelligence is that are supposed to make our lives better in the future. They haven't told us how we're supposed to pay for those brand new accessibility features, when we can't get jobs because we can't get access to visual studio features and SharePoint team site. VScode accessibility is under development on Windows, though Microsoft admits, it is currently ignoring accessibility on the Mack. as a person who wants very much to develop on Mac OS, I find Microsoft limited attention to accessibility on the Mac extremely irritating. Since accessibility on Windows is only slightly better, a part of me wishes Windows would simply implode and go away. As a systems technician formerly earning my bread cleaning up viruses and security threats, I learned to revile parts of the windows computing experience.


the days of high-cost accessibility are not nearly as far behind us as we would all like to believe. customers investing thousands of dollars each overtime had a right to feel proprietary about the products they bought, even if they never saw the money they paid in. 即日factor in the extremely preferential nature of speech synthesizers and Braille displays used for screen reader output, and the politics of screen reader manufacturers, and you had a real soup of excessive loyalties. That situation still holds true today, even though there are far fewer of those high-cost screen readers than there once were. the fact is, customers are now far more in control of what they spend, and they see much more of the money, then they did in the days of expensive screen readers.

despite the idealistic belief of many learned people who ought to know better, there is very little evidence to support the idea that competition was good for screen reader manufacturers, and evidence in abundance to support the idea that it was never good. In fact it was bad. Over the last 20 years, competition in the screen reader market has been based not on quality, performance, and features, but on exclusivity agreements, and corporate litigation. accessibility continue to be an afterthought, and only the manufacturer with the right high-level access in any given situation could develop accessibility for a given product. Wait times for accessibility to off-the-shelf products could you take years. Software developers used their products to try to freeze out hardware manufacturers.

I wish Jaws would die, because it's expensive, proprietary, unnecessary, and I revile the politics of the people who develop it. Competition between nvda and Jaws is not good for customers, and it's not good for the market. obsolescence of jaws has major ramifications for companies such as Banks using old proprietary systems, but I think it would be a mistake to feel too Sorry for those types of companies. increased adoption of nvda with the right advocacy could lead to higher employment, better education and training, and better design practices for commercial software. we are all good and valuable things, not merely for blind people, but for businesses, infrastructures, economies, and society in general.

a competition between nvda and narrator may have some positive ramifications, especially on the narrator side, but the sooner freedom scientific gets out of the way, the better.

Best,

Th
erik


On February 3, 2019 9:43:12 AM "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,
here's what I don't get: Why would some users of one screen reader
actually wish for another screen reader to disappear? I can understand
when a company decides it would be somewhat cool if the competition
didn't exist. But users? Why would I, for instance, as a Mac user want
Windows to die? Wouldn't it be logical for a JAWS user to be grateful
that NVDA exists because competition improves quality?
Best,
Felix

Am So., 3. Feb. 2019 um 14:35 Uhr schrieb molly the blind tech lover
<brainardmolly@gmail.com>:

Hi.

I agree with everything you say.

I love NVDA.

I am so grateful that it exists as it has changed my life for the better. I am so grateful to all the NVDA developers and contributors.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clare Page
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 8:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?



Hi!

Reading this thread about the rumours of NVDA dying, I couldn’t help thinking: would I be right in guessing that the people who mentioned this don’t use NVDA themselves? Over the years I’ve come across several users of other screenreaders who look down on NVDA for different reasons, so maybe the talk of the death of NVDA was wishful thinking on their part, hoping we’d all flock to use whatever screenreaders they have. Very cynical, I know, but I couldn’t get that thought out of my mind, that’s why I expressed it here; And no, I have no intention of being nasty to users of other screenreaders, I have simply noticed that some users of any screenreader or system, sometimes just a tiny minority, are quick to look down on anyone who doesn’t use the same thing.

However, I’m convinced that there’s plenty of life in NVDA as we discuss this: look how hard the developers are working to not only keep this screenreader alive, but also to improve it! We’re all grateful to them, I know, and I wish to add: keep up the good work! And I’m not just saying that to keep the rumour-mongers quiet, we want this excellent screenreader to keep existing for a long time to come. It may have its imperfections, every screenreader does, but it would only be worth killing off if it’s no good, and it’s exactly the opposite, an excellent way to access the Windows operating system for many blind people. Long live NVDA!

Bye for now!

From Clare



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: dimanche 3 février 2019 07:32
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?



As far as I could tell, all of the people concerned were on Windows 10, not XP.



I know I'll have to shift away from 7 eventually, but hopefully not any time this year. I will when I must, but as long as the next release of NVDA will work on my Win 7 system, I'll be content.

On 3/02/2019 4:33 pm, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Those rumors were probably from who have a Windows 10 phobia. Now there are performance issues with people trying to run the latest version of NVDA on Windows XP or earlier. That is flatly stated on this and other NVDA lists and websites.



Folks, you have to move on past XP and eventually even Windows 7. I am very conservative when it comes to changing a system that works well. I had an XP system at least one of the 3 systems I own until early 2018, but I now have 2 Windows 10 systems playing perfectly with NVDA and I feel a bit better than with JAWS latest release. I still don't like JAWS identifying the Windows Explorer windows as multi select list boxes and reading every item in the displayed columns. Even with the updated scripts for Thunderbird, JAWS still seems sluggish and clunky when compared to NVDA in that program.



So there you have it--just my 2 cents.



On 2/2/2019 10:36 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

It wasn't on an NVDA skype group, just a misc one for someone's live streams where all sorts of topics come up. There were some complaints about performance issues a couple days ago, and that was where the sentiments I related were mentioned. It upset me quite a bit to hear such things...

On 3/02/2019 1:42 pm, Lino Morales wrote:

I don’t know where the hell you heard that on the Skype group. Are you on the Skype English group? I’ve not seen any such messages about NVDA going down hill since James left. Mike, Quenton, and Rafe Turner are doing a fine job down under along with the devs who are part of the NVDA add-ons community.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10



________________________________

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 8:41:06 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?



Hi,


I haven't updated NVDA since 2018.1 due to issues that seemed to crop up
around every release. Now I'm hearing from others in a Skype group I'm a
member of that NVDA has been going downhill since Jamie left the project
and it's going to die outright soon because it can't keep up with
competition.


NVDA has been my screen-reader of choice since I discovered it in late
2011 and I don't want it to be forever lost. I can't donate right now,
and I'm not a programmer, but is there anything I can do to help? This
project has been a faithful friend to me and I want to fight for it in
any way I possibly can.


--

They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.

They ask: "How Happy are You?"

I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"








Re: Captcha solving services and NVDA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Send a monthly invoice to the site builders.
grin.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mobeen Iqbal" <mobeeniqbal@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Captcha solving services and NVDA


Hi. The one I personally use with great success is Rumola, they're very reasonably priced.

http://skipinput.com/

Very best wishes,

Mo.


On 15/02/2019 10:15, Antony Stone wrote:
It would be helpful to know what "changing some settings" means, so that
others might try the same technique.


Antony.

On Friday 15 February 2019 at 11:11:06, zahra wrote:

hi.
which windows do you use?
i heard someone in iran who has windows ten, he told me that with ocr
of windows ten and changing some settings, he can solves security
codes on websites!
i installed ocr addon for nvda and did not learn what should i do to
solve these kinds of codes.

On 2/15/19, Bianka Brankovic <bianka.brankovic@ionos.com> wrote:
Hello all,

as Webvisum, at least to my knowledge, has been discontinued, I am
wondering if there are affordable captcha solving services which are
accessible with NVDA?

Anny input on this is highly appreciated.

Thanks and kind regards,

Bianka


Re: Captcha solving services and NVDA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

There are a number of issues here. Firstly the OCR free version that nvda used, cannot recognise the wobbly font that they used to use. The next thing is that to me at least we should encourage people to report these divisive ideas as poor practice, as it can be done by careful choice of questions instead without making the site inaccessible to people with sight issues.
Lastly I see very few of the wobbly writing or dodgy incomprehensible audio kind these days, the tend to be a far more awkward issue in that a screen may say, click on the picture with a wave in it or a house with a chimney or whatever. Unless you are very lucky you stand no chance at all no matter what you do with such devices. I imagine as is said in this thread, of Cloud based OCR is got enough to read the writing, so is the spammer it has been designed to stop.
Again as in the thread about accessibility being designed in, rather than being a bolt on, this practice should never get past the thought stage on any web site that wants people to use it.
All I can offer you is that several people I know use their smart phones and Be May Eyes to solve them. its irritating and stupid but there it is.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Captcha solving services and NVDA


hi.
which windows do you use?
i heard someone in iran who has windows ten, he told me that with ocr
of windows ten and changing some settings, he can solves security
codes on websites!
i installed ocr addon for nvda and did not learn what should i do to
solve these kinds of codes.

On 2/15/19, Bianka Brankovic <bianka.brankovic@ionos.com> wrote:
Hello all,

as Webvisum, at least to my knowledge, has been discontinued, I am wondering
if there are affordable captcha solving services which are accessible with
NVDA?

Anny input on this is highly appreciated.

Thanks and kind regards,

Bianka






--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: Competition was Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

Sile
 

And then there’s the whole debate about The difference between what is technically accessible and what is practically useable. I’ve been having this debate with Microsoft for years. Even if everything conforms to current WC3 standards, for example, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s easy to use the resulting webpage.

Sile

On Feb 15, 2019, at 4:13 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Not sure how I feel about this myself. To me there seems to be one issue nobody mentions at all. Should we not expect every company to design software so that a manufacturers accessibility tools can work with them out of the box. The problem as you state is a catch 22 one in that we have no access experts working for software companies because we have inaccessible tools to make the software with!

I think the only real reason Jaws still is around is because of attitudes of companies who need or are forced by local laws to have accessible in house software to allow them to employ disabled people.Its expensive but if they actually sent the money they spent on Jaws scripting and the program to invest in a similar thing for nvda. it would actually be cheaper for them. It would be really nice to find as well that Jenny at Microsoft had the clout to say, you cannot release this software as its not been written using Windows API.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "erik burggraaf" <erik@erik-burggraaf.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2019 3:34 PM
Subject: Competition was Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?


The key to this situation as many have said is self-interest. As a programming student, I have a lot of computers around my house. my personal preference is for Mac, but the college is using absolutely nothing but visual studio for Windows. The complete Monopoly of visual studio in the college is extremely frustrating to me. Microsoft, for all its vaunted accessibility spending, still builds apps the way they did in the early 2000. Accessibility continues to be an afterthought despite millions of dollars spent on artificial intelligence is that are supposed to make our lives better in the future. They haven't told us how we're supposed to pay for those brand new accessibility features, when we can't get jobs because we can't get access to visual studio features and SharePoint team site. VScode accessibility is under development on Windows, though Microsoft admits, it is currently ignoring accessibility on the Mack. as a person who wants very much to develop on Mac OS, I find Microsoft limited attention to accessibility on the Mac extremely irritating. Since accessibility on Windows is only slightly better, a part of me wishes Windows would simply implode and go away. As a systems technician formerly earning my bread cleaning up viruses and security threats, I learned to revile parts of the windows computing experience.


the days of high-cost accessibility are not nearly as far behind us as we would all like to believe. customers investing thousands of dollars each overtime had a right to feel proprietary about the products they bought, even if they never saw the money they paid in. 即日factor in the extremely preferential nature of speech synthesizers and Braille displays used for screen reader output, and the politics of screen reader manufacturers, and you had a real soup of excessive loyalties. That situation still holds true today, even though there are far fewer of those high-cost screen readers than there once were. the fact is, customers are now far more in control of what they spend, and they see much more of the money, then they did in the days of expensive screen readers.

despite the idealistic belief of many learned people who ought to know better, there is very little evidence to support the idea that competition was good for screen reader manufacturers, and evidence in abundance to support the idea that it was never good. In fact it was bad. Over the last 20 years, competition in the screen reader market has been based not on quality, performance, and features, but on exclusivity agreements, and corporate litigation. accessibility continue to be an afterthought, and only the manufacturer with the right high-level access in any given situation could develop accessibility for a given product. Wait times for accessibility to off-the-shelf products could you take years. Software developers used their products to try to freeze out hardware manufacturers.

I wish Jaws would die, because it's expensive, proprietary, unnecessary, and I revile the politics of the people who develop it. Competition between nvda and Jaws is not good for customers, and it's not good for the market. obsolescence of jaws has major ramifications for companies such as Banks using old proprietary systems, but I think it would be a mistake to feel too Sorry for those types of companies. increased adoption of nvda with the right advocacy could lead to higher employment, better education and training, and better design practices for commercial software. we are all good and valuable things, not merely for blind people, but for businesses, infrastructures, economies, and society in general.

a competition between nvda and narrator may have some positive ramifications, especially on the narrator side, but the sooner freedom scientific gets out of the way, the better.

Best,

Th
erik


On February 3, 2019 9:43:12 AM "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,
here's what I don't get: Why would some users of one screen reader
actually wish for another screen reader to disappear? I can understand
when a company decides it would be somewhat cool if the competition
didn't exist. But users? Why would I, for instance, as a Mac user want
Windows to die? Wouldn't it be logical for a JAWS user to be grateful
that NVDA exists because competition improves quality?
Best,
Felix

Am So., 3. Feb. 2019 um 14:35 Uhr schrieb molly the blind tech lover
<brainardmolly@gmail.com>:

Hi.

I agree with everything you say.

I love NVDA.

I am so grateful that it exists as it has changed my life for the better. I am so grateful to all the NVDA developers and contributors.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clare Page
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 8:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?



Hi!

Reading this thread about the rumours of NVDA dying, I couldn’t help thinking: would I be right in guessing that the people who mentioned this don’t use NVDA themselves? Over the years I’ve come across several users of other screenreaders who look down on NVDA for different reasons, so maybe the talk of the death of NVDA was wishful thinking on their part, hoping we’d all flock to use whatever screenreaders they have. Very cynical, I know, but I couldn’t get that thought out of my mind, that’s why I expressed it here; And no, I have no intention of being nasty to users of other screenreaders, I have simply noticed that some users of any screenreader or system, sometimes just a tiny minority, are quick to look down on anyone who doesn’t use the same thing.

However, I’m convinced that there’s plenty of life in NVDA as we discuss this: look how hard the developers are working to not only keep this screenreader alive, but also to improve it! We’re all grateful to them, I know, and I wish to add: keep up the good work! And I’m not just saying that to keep the rumour-mongers quiet, we want this excellent screenreader to keep existing for a long time to come. It may have its imperfections, every screenreader does, but it would only be worth killing off if it’s no good, and it’s exactly the opposite, an excellent way to access the Windows operating system for many blind people. Long live NVDA!

Bye for now!

From Clare



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: dimanche 3 février 2019 07:32
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?



As far as I could tell, all of the people concerned were on Windows 10, not XP.



I know I'll have to shift away from 7 eventually, but hopefully not any time this year. I will when I must, but as long as the next release of NVDA will work on my Win 7 system, I'll be content.

On 3/02/2019 4:33 pm, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Those rumors were probably from who have a Windows 10 phobia. Now there are performance issues with people trying to run the latest version of NVDA on Windows XP or earlier. That is flatly stated on this and other NVDA lists and websites.



Folks, you have to move on past XP and eventually even Windows 7. I am very conservative when it comes to changing a system that works well. I had an XP system at least one of the 3 systems I own until early 2018, but I now have 2 Windows 10 systems playing perfectly with NVDA and I feel a bit better than with JAWS latest release. I still don't like JAWS identifying the Windows Explorer windows as multi select list boxes and reading every item in the displayed columns. Even with the updated scripts for Thunderbird, JAWS still seems sluggish and clunky when compared to NVDA in that program.



So there you have it--just my 2 cents.



On 2/2/2019 10:36 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

It wasn't on an NVDA skype group, just a misc one for someone's live streams where all sorts of topics come up. There were some complaints about performance issues a couple days ago, and that was where the sentiments I related were mentioned. It upset me quite a bit to hear such things...

On 3/02/2019 1:42 pm, Lino Morales wrote:

I don’t know where the hell you heard that on the Skype group. Are you on the Skype English group? I’ve not seen any such messages about NVDA going down hill since James left. Mike, Quenton, and Rafe Turner are doing a fine job down under along with the devs who are part of the NVDA add-ons community.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10



________________________________

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 8:41:06 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?



Hi,


I haven't updated NVDA since 2018.1 due to issues that seemed to crop up
around every release. Now I'm hearing from others in a Skype group I'm a
member of that NVDA has been going downhill since Jamie left the project
and it's going to die outright soon because it can't keep up with
competition.


NVDA has been my screen-reader of choice since I discovered it in late
2011 and I don't want it to be forever lost. I can't donate right now,
and I'm not a programmer, but is there anything I can do to help? This
project has been a faithful friend to me and I want to fight for it in
any way I possibly can.


--

They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.

They ask: "How Happy are You?"

I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"








Graphics that contain links

Peter Beasley
 

A number of sites are now using graphics that  contain links. How do you activate these links using NVDA               ?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Captcha solving services and NVDA

Mobeen Iqbal
 

Hi.

I am using it fine here with Chrome 72 64bit. What version of chrome are you using?

cheers,

Mo.

On 15/02/2019 10:52, Simone Dal Maso wrote:
Hello,
Rumola is not usable any more.
At least, if you search for Rumola on Google Chrome you have a page not found, and you can't solve any captcha also if you have the addon installed.
The same thing is for Captcha Begone, the extension is not available on google chrome.
The only way I found is use an old firefox version with webvisum, just only for solving captcha.

Il 15/02/2019 11:27, Mobeen Iqbal ha scritto:
Hi. The one I personally use with great success is Rumola, they're very reasonably priced.

http://skipinput.com/

Very best wishes,

Mo.


On 15/02/2019 10:15, Antony Stone wrote:
It would be helpful to know what "changing some settings" means, so that
others might try the same technique.


Antony.

On Friday 15 February 2019 at 11:11:06, zahra wrote:

hi.
which windows do you use?
i heard someone in iran who has windows ten, he told me that with ocr
of windows ten and changing some settings, he can solves security
codes on websites!
i installed ocr addon for nvda and did not learn what should i do to
solve these kinds of codes.

On 2/15/19, Bianka Brankovic <bianka.brankovic@ionos.com> wrote:
Hello all,

as Webvisum, at least to my knowledge, has been discontinued, I am
wondering if there are affordable captcha solving services which are
accessible with NVDA?

Anny input on this is highly appreciated.

Thanks and kind regards,

Bianka



Re: Need help with BrailleExtender

John J. Boyer
 

Hello,

The developer of BrailleExtender put in a BRF setting. I installed the develooper version, but I can't find or change
that setting. See the paragraph after the next.

I found that add-ons can be disabled or removed in the add-on manager, which is under the tools menu. Then NVDA must be
restarted. The add-on can then be enabled again oor added again.

the developer of BrailleExtender has added a brf setting, but I don't know how to handle it. I go to Input gestures >
brailleExtender then
arrow around in the tree view and find Hide/Show dots 7-8, but I can't see how to change anything. Please help!

Thanks,
John

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 07:11:43PM -0000, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Well can you not disable it?
If not how about using another copy of nvda which does not have it to just
remove it from the folder completely then reboot the nvda that had it. Most
add ons can seemingly be removed this way.
I'll await somebody to shout at me....
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "John J. Boyer"
<john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2019 8:04 PM
Subject: [nvda] Need help with BrailleExtender


Hello,

My first attempt to hide dots 7-8 worked, but the side effects are
unacceptable. The down arrow on the keyboard hides
oor shows the dots, but now I can't use menus, including the NVDA menus,
unless I happen to remember the letter for an
option. How do i get out of this!? BrailleExtender seems to have its own
configuration file.. Restarting NVDA doesn't
fix the problem. Neither does reloading BrailleExtender.

Thanks,
John

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM
services
that are available at no cost






--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
that are available at no cost


The great add on readyness debate

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Just out of interest, I just downloaded the latest alpha snap, and tweaked all the manifests to show that they had been tried on the next full build and copied the bit of the initialisation log to notepad
For those interested in future proofing. Here is what the process showed for the add ons I actually have installed.

DEBUG - core.main (10:20:22.155):
Initializing global plugin handler
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (10:20:22.155):
Addon addonUpdater added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (10:20:22.155):
Addon applicationDictionary added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (10:20:22.155):
Addon AudioThemes3D added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (10:20:22.155):
Addon dropbox added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (10:20:22.155):
Addon fakeClipboardAnouncement added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (10:20:22.157):
Addon focusHighlight added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (10:20:22.157):
Addon goldenCursor added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (10:20:22.157):
Addon IndentNav added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (10:20:22.157):
Addon objPad added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (10:20:22.157):
Addon OpenLinkWith added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (10:20:22.157):
Addon remote added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (10:20:22.157):
Addon resourceMonitor added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (10:20:22.157):
Addon systrayList added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (10:20:22.157):
Addon textnav added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (10:20:22.157):
Addon toolbarsExplorer added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (10:20:22.213):
C:\nvda extra\userConfig\addons\remote\globalPlugins\remoteClient\configuration.py:5: DeprecationWarning: Importing validate directly is deprecated. Please use configobj.validate instead
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (10:20:22.275):
C:\nvda extra\userConfig\addons\AudioThemes3D\globalPlugins\audioThemes\backend\unspoken\mixer.py:30: DeprecationWarning: integer argument expected, got float
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (10:20:22.282):
C:\nvda extra\userConfig\addons\AudioThemes3D\globalPlugins\audioThemes\__init__.py:62: DeprecationWarning: NewId() is deprecated
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (10:20:22.282):
C:\nvda extra\userConfig\addons\AudioThemes3D\globalPlugins\audioThemes\__init__.py:70: DeprecationWarning: NewId() is deprecated
DEBUG - core.main (10:20:22.438):


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Re: Captcha solving services and NVDA

Simone Dal Maso
 

Hello,
Rumola is not usable any more.
At least, if you search for Rumola on Google Chrome you have a page not found, and you can't solve any captcha also if you have the addon installed.
The same thing is for Captcha Begone, the extension is not available on google chrome.
The only way I found is use an old firefox version with webvisum, just only for solving captcha.

Il 15/02/2019 11:27, Mobeen Iqbal ha scritto:
Hi. The one I personally use with great success is Rumola, they're very reasonably priced.
http://skipinput.com/
Very best wishes,
Mo.
On 15/02/2019 10:15, Antony Stone wrote:
It would be helpful to know what "changing some settings" means, so that
others might try the same technique.


Antony.

On Friday 15 February 2019 at 11:11:06, zahra wrote:

hi.
which windows do you use?
i heard someone in iran who has windows ten, he told me that with ocr
of windows ten and changing some settings, he can solves security
codes on websites!
i installed ocr addon for nvda and did not learn what should i do to
solve these kinds of codes.

On 2/15/19, Bianka Brankovic <bianka.brankovic@ionos.com> wrote:
Hello all,

as Webvisum, at least to my knowledge, has been discontinued, I am
wondering if there are affordable captcha solving services which are
accessible with NVDA?

Anny input on this is highly appreciated.

Thanks and kind regards,

Bianka


Re: Captcha solving services and NVDA

Gene
 

I thought Rumola was no longer available.  Maybe it still is.  You can still use Webvisum.  You need an older version of Firefox.  I won't go into details here, but if you want to use an older portable version for captchas and the browser you are currently using for other browsing, I'll give you more information.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 3:58 AM
Subject: [nvda] Captcha solving services and NVDA

Hello all,

as Webvisum, at least to my knowledge, has been discontinued, I am wondering if there are affordable captcha solving services which are accessible with NVDA?

Anny input on this is highly appreciated.

Thanks and kind regards,

Bianka
 




Re: Captcha solving services and NVDA

Mobeen Iqbal
 

Hi. The one I personally use with great success is Rumola, they're very reasonably priced.

http://skipinput.com/

Very best wishes,

Mo.

On 15/02/2019 10:15, Antony Stone wrote:
It would be helpful to know what "changing some settings" means, so that
others might try the same technique.


Antony.

On Friday 15 February 2019 at 11:11:06, zahra wrote:

hi.
which windows do you use?
i heard someone in iran who has windows ten, he told me that with ocr
of windows ten and changing some settings, he can solves security
codes on websites!
i installed ocr addon for nvda and did not learn what should i do to
solve these kinds of codes.

On 2/15/19, Bianka Brankovic <bianka.brankovic@ionos.com> wrote:
Hello all,

as Webvisum, at least to my knowledge, has been discontinued, I am
wondering if there are affordable captcha solving services which are
accessible with NVDA?

Anny input on this is highly appreciated.

Thanks and kind regards,

Bianka


Re: Captcha solving services and NVDA

Antony Stone
 

It would be helpful to know what "changing some settings" means, so that
others might try the same technique.


Antony.

On Friday 15 February 2019 at 11:11:06, zahra wrote:

hi.
which windows do you use?
i heard someone in iran who has windows ten, he told me that with ocr
of windows ten and changing some settings, he can solves security
codes on websites!
i installed ocr addon for nvda and did not learn what should i do to
solve these kinds of codes.

On 2/15/19, Bianka Brankovic <bianka.brankovic@ionos.com> wrote:
Hello all,

as Webvisum, at least to my knowledge, has been discontinued, I am
wondering if there are affordable captcha solving services which are
accessible with NVDA?

Anny input on this is highly appreciated.

Thanks and kind regards,

Bianka
--
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question?

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Captcha solving services and NVDA

 

hi.
which windows do you use?
i heard someone in iran who has windows ten, he told me that with ocr
of windows ten and changing some settings, he can solves security
codes on websites!
i installed ocr addon for nvda and did not learn what should i do to
solve these kinds of codes.

On 2/15/19, Bianka Brankovic <bianka.brankovic@ionos.com> wrote:
Hello all,

as Webvisum, at least to my knowledge, has been discontinued, I am wondering
if there are affordable captcha solving services which are accessible with
NVDA?

Anny input on this is highly appreciated.

Thanks and kind regards,

Bianka





--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Captcha solving services and NVDA

Bianka Brankovic <bianka.brankovic@...>
 

Hello all,

as Webvisum, at least to my knowledge, has been discontinued, I am wondering if there are affordable captcha solving services which are accessible with NVDA?

Anny input on this is highly appreciated.

Thanks and kind regards,

Bianka


Re: ITunes and NVDA

Chris
 

You need to set iTunes to column browser mode so your music shows up in a list rather than with icons

 

 

From: Ján Kulik
Sent: 15 February 2019 08:54
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] ITunes and NVDA

 

Hi all, does anyone use your iTunes on a computer with an NVDA reader? NVDA just does not announce any offers after the ALTm slider or iTunes version information. Unfortunately, I recently installed it.

 

Thank you for your answers.

Greetings from Slovakia

 


Re: Instances of redundancy

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I've noted this as well. the search engine one is a real pain in the backside. I only use console windows sometimes but for odd reasons it seems not to be always doing it. I suspect its detecting the cursor focus moves rather than its final resting place, so to speak.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 7:41 AM
Subject: [nvda] Instances of redundancy


Hi!
I am noticing that, when typing into the Youtube search field, for
every character I type, NVDA will repeat the name of the search field
followed by its current contents.
Also, in Chrome's address bar, when an automatic suggestion is
detected, that same auto suggestion is repeated every time I type an
additional character still matching the same suggestion.
Over time I find my concentration suffers when my audio input is
overloaded with all that stuttering. Is there a constellation of
settings which would minimize that kind of redundancy while still
keeping track of changes? I've experimented with the document and
browse mode settings but haven't come up with anything useful thus
far.
In addition, I am noticing that in colsole windows, the same text is
often spoken multiple times, even if both character and word echo are
turned off. It sounds a bit like this:
Peter, Paul and. Peter, Paul and Mary were sitting. Sitting in the.
Sitting in the kitchen.
As a programmer I need to be sure what my console is doing or not
doing. Is there a way to make this behave reliably in this most basic
of scenarios? I wouldn't be complaining if this were a complex gui,
but we're talking about simple text-mode console here.
All the best, looking forward to everyone's friendly advice,
Felix


Re: my regular bullets disappeared after updateing word 2010

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

So you are saying they are on screen but cursoring over them says nothing at all now, is that right?
Which version of nvda have you got and has anyone fiddled with the punctuations and symbols list. I still can see bullets in windows 7 and word as far back as 2002, so it seems a bit odd. Certainly don't go messing with Office versions you could get into a deeper mess! Lets see what others think.
A log fragment of it reading over the chars might be interesting.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Melissa Jean" <Melissa.J.Hammitt@gmail.com>
To: "nvda" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 5:21 AM
Subject: [nvda] my regular bullets disappeared after updateing word 2010


I have Windows 10 1803 and it just updated the other day. I went to
use Word 2010 and when creating a list I went and wrote my first line
and hit enter and then went to hit tab to start a nested list. The
default for me is to go a, b, and c ... well I went to change it to
bulleted and did my normal keystrokes to change the bullet. I hit
application key, hit b to get to bullet option, and then I arrow to
the right once. When I did that NVDA reported nothing. I tried
changing the bullet to some other one (they're some amount of letters
plus a font name) and the only one that NVDA reported was the O one
that says "circle" and I don't like that one.
I went to have my mom look at it and it showed up.
I changed to JAWDS and it showed up.
I tried to change the bullet using JAWS (I love how it is an actual
bullet name instead of that jibberish) and NVDA wouldn't report any of
those different bullets either.
I didn't remember seeing this as an issue when 1803 first came out and
I'm sure I missed it, but the volume for this list and others had
gotten out of hand for me so I cut down on the amount I checked them
so I might've missed it.

I have a key for 2007 and for 2016, but I've put off updating MS
Office because of the issues I happened to see others having and 2010
worked fine for me and I didn't want to downgrade either.

Is there something I missed or is there something I can do?

Thanks


Re: NVDA with office 2019

Quentin Christensen
 

Everything in Office 2019 is either in Office 365 now, or was recently (Office 365 gets regular updates.  I don't know exactly when they stopped updating for Office 2019), so yes, Office 2019 should work just as well as Office 365 with NVDA :)

Certainly if you have any problems, do please let us know.

Regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 7:33 PM 特種兵 <afreettears@...> wrote:
hi all

   I know office 365 and office 2016 with NVDA is accessible.
   Microsoft update office to 2019 on 2018/10
   How about office 2019 with NVDA is still accessible?
   My os is win10 and NVDA 2018.4.1 and NVDA
   thanks for any advis.



--

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Musings on recent posts: add-on writing, control labels, and others

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I mainly agree with you on attitude. If you saw the little sub chat about the attitude of programmers of applications, then I am sure you felt, as I did like shouting at Microsoft purveyor of inaccessible tools for programmers that the biggest service they could provide to get third party stuff accessible is to make the tools usable and set an example as no up and coming programmer is going to get employed if asked to use inaccessible tools.

As for paying for add ons. Well, as you say, it depends.
I'd certainly not ask somebody with no investment in accessibility to try to do a crash course and create something. That would be rather silly.

I'd prefer I think to see somebody who knows what they were doing writing it with help from somebody with a similar sight issue to the people who want it. Its normally work based software that I'd be concentrating on, as its most likely to be needed again, not just a one off and in such cases perhaps the software company should be asked to fund it, as its their shortcoming in the first place.

There are so many interested parties in accessibility, many not understanding why two bits of software that look similar can in one case work well for a blind person and in another be completely messed up. It in the end seems to boil down to education of the main population, something which is actually getting worse in my view.


Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 10:09 PM
Subject: [nvda] Musings on recent posts: add-on writing, control labels, and others


Hi all,



I'm starting a brand new thread in order to gather all sorts of musings
about recent messages under one roof (the very last message from someone on
mouse nav thread is akin to thread hijacking, so I'm bringing more detailed
answer here).



Before going into some musings (at least one arising out of anger), I'd like
to disclose who I am so you can better understand where I'm coming from and
the general direction of what I'll be saying below:



First, you may know me as one of the visible faces of NVDA community, or
rather, one of the slightly better known faces of assistive technology. I've
been part of this community (officially) since 2012, starting out as a new
translator. Prior to joining this community, I represented BrailleNote users
and worked together with HumanWare in some things here and there from user
side (yes, I'm the one who brought you support for BrailleNote Apex in NVDA
not long ago).



After joining the NVDA community, I began contributing my skills as a
computer science student with small things here and there. Of these, two
stand out: creation of Welcome to NVDA tutorial series in 2013, and being
the founding chair of NVDA Users and Developers Conference (NVDACon) in
March 2014. In addition, I wrote some old add-ons, including Control Usage
Assistant (end of life) and Enhanced Touch Gestures. In 2013, I became a
moderator of this very forum (back then, it was hosted somewhere else),
resigning in 2016 to focus on other activities such as add-on reviews,
school, and testing Windows 10 builds.



At the moment I'm studying communication studies at a local university,
compete in intercollegiate speech tournaments, and write and review various
community add-ons. I also help out with NVDA development from time to time,
and currently am the lead architect for a project to bring add-on updating
functionality to NVDA itself. Some of you may also know me from other lists,
such as Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users (where I'm the owner/head list
representative) and others.



With that background out of the way: here are my thoughts on recent
messages, attitudes, and requests from a veteran NVDA user, a developer, an
add-on author and reviewer, and one of the visible faces of this community
(also as a former moderator of this very forum):



Control labels: a feature request for providing custom labels isn't new.
Having dealt with this issue myself recently (and seeing it resolved
satisfactorily), I think a hybrid approach is needed, with emphasis placed
on attitudes of vendors, not just NVDA people (the approach being trying to
persuade vendors). If I'm reading the messages correctly, there appears to
be a prevailing attitude among some third-party vendors that they should
design the user interface and then think about accessibility. I am a strong
opponent of such attitude, and would consider writing to vendors first
BEFORE asking NVDA community to do something. Recognizing labels may help,
but that's not a long-term solution - the long-term solution starts with
examination of attitudes of today's programming students, not a "late
design" discussion.



As for add-on writing: please do not treat this list as a "buy, sell,. Or
trade" list for add-on authoring jobs in the context of paying a non-user to
write an add-on for you (I'm angry and serious about this assertion). Few
reasons:

* Actual person: a "friend of yours" who you decide to pay may not
even know what exactly a "disability" is. Without being exposed to it and
willingness to be educated, that friend may not step on the right spot when
writing an add-on, let alone using NVDA.
* You: the add-on your friend may come up with may not be the answer
you're looking for. Think carefully: what is worse: not getting an add-on,
or getting something out of context?
* Community: if this kind of attitude is allowed to stay, some folks
here may think that they don't have to show any effort when it comes to
writing add-ons - you can just ask someone to write an add-on for you, and
that person happens to know nothing about disability culture at all.



The following is one add-on reviewer's note on this whole attitude: if I
find out that an add-on I'm reviewing went through this very attitude (you
pay a non-user to write an add-on and if that person isn't willing to learn
more about disability culture and attitude), then I'll make sure to put a
"red light" on my review sheet (i.e. fail the review and notify the
community. Yes, I'm serious about what I just said, because this kind of
attitude should NOT perpetuate anymore. If you have any compelling
objections, please talk to me privately.



But what if that friend of yours shows willingness to educate oneself about
disability culture and attitude? Then I think it should be examined on a
case by case basis. Then perhaps we can direct him or her to appropriate
channels to assist him or her in coming up with a solution that benefits
many people. Once it becomes time to review an add-on from that individual,
perhaps we'll provide some useful pointers and comments.



In summary, what I'm looking for is willingness to show consideration for
free will. If there's one thing that'll sustain this community, it is not
code or how many add-ons or features NVDA has - it is attitude of people.
Thus, in regards to an add-on for a video editing software, if the uneasy
attitude I described is still being perpetuated, then I'd like to turn down
your request for one for now.



Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Joseph




Re: NVDA and off topic chats

 

Brian,
It's about an idea that I suggested on the chat group. We were thinking about doing a Messenger group.

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter

Em 15/02/2019 07:25, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io escreveu:

Most of us have no idea what you are on about!
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Shook" <chris0309@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 2:06 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and off topic chats


Martio, have you suggested that messenger thing to keep down the off topic chats yet?