Date   

Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Gene
 

The problem is, what should this array of ways of input be called?  Maybe input commands, which would cover everything.  This is just one more example of the decline of English.  Apps and applications, two different things, are used increasingly interchangeably.  the language in general is becoming less precise and accurate and this is just one area.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Input gestures are more abstract
Which is precisely the problem.  Callin something that is intimately familiar to the typical end user, and when it's currently the only method (regardless of keyboard being used), something "more abstract" is not the way to go. 

The folks at NV Access are far from the only software developers to go this route.   Almost every time it's the route taken it makes things more opaque to the target demographic, which is why it should be avoided in the first place.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Sarah k Alawami
 

I agree with Brian. I see input gestures and think touch, not keyboard or mouse etc. I don't think there has ever ben a change in terms and to me they are Not synonymous.

On 15 Feb 2019, at 16:20, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
(and perhaps one day, voice).
          And were one to hide the incredibly direct term, "voice commands," under the rubric "input gestures" then all the opprobrium heaped upon you would be deserved.  Taking the direct "voice" and abstracting it to "input" should be a hanging offense.

          Say what you mean and mean what you say, using terminology "the typical user" can instantly recognize, is the foundation of good design.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

 

Mary,

         Not that I don't blame technical writers for a multitude of sins in the world of documentation, but terminology used by an application is seldom determined by them.

         I'm not attempting to bash any individual or group, either, but share my hard-won insights after decades in many facets of IT.   I mean, in what earthly way would anyone who thought about it think that the abstraction "input gestures" superior to the far more conventional "commands," which covers any input method to issue them.

         As I have grown older I have become far more intolerant of practices, particularly related to writing, that seem to have as their main purpose making what is written less comprehensible by a broad audience.  Nowhere is this worse than in academic writing.  The idea that saying in one or two opaque terms what is immediately obvious using 5 common words should also be a shooting offense.

          All pursuits lead to some jargon for the sake of efficiency, and that's OK.  That's not what I'm talking about in any way.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Mary Otten
 

Brian,


I couldn't agree with you more! I guess "me too" messages aren't all that useful. But hiding what should be plainly obvious behind unnecessarily opaque jargon defeats the purpose of the documentation in the first place. I guess that's why good technical writers are so hard to find.


Mary

On 2/15/2019 4:20 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
(and perhaps one day, voice).
          And were one to hide the incredibly direct term, "voice commands," under the rubric "input gestures" then all the opprobrium heaped upon you would be deserved.  Taking the direct "voice" and abstracting it to "input" should be a hanging offense.

          Say what you mean and mean what you say, using terminology "the typical user" can instantly recognize, is the foundation of good design.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


NVDA Tutorial Material in the Russian Language

Albert Ruel
 

Hi all.  Can anyone point me to an email discussion list like this one for Russian NVDA users, as well as to any tutorial/training material that might be available in Russian. 

 

Thx, Albert

 

 


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

 

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
(and perhaps one day, voice).
          And were one to hide the incredibly direct term, "voice commands," under the rubric "input gestures" then all the opprobrium heaped upon you would be deserved.  Taking the direct "voice" and abstracting it to "input" should be a hanging offense.

          Say what you mean and mean what you say, using terminology "the typical user" can instantly recognize, is the foundation of good design.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

 

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Input gestures are more abstract
Which is precisely the problem.  Callin something that is intimately familiar to the typical end user, and when it's currently the only method (regardless of keyboard being used), something "more abstract" is not the way to go. 

The folks at NV Access are far from the only software developers to go this route.   Almost every time it's the route taken it makes things more opaque to the target demographic, which is why it should be avoided in the first place.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

 

Hi,

Input gestures are more abstract – in that it includes not only keyboard commands, but also represents other input possibilities such as braille display buttons and touchscreen gestures (and perhaps one day, voice).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 3:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Richard,

            I will admit that I, too, find the adoption of the terminology "input gestures" for what are almost universally dubbed "keyboard shortcuts" just plain weird.  But I also know that most developers of things that have keyboard shortcuts that are add-ons know that what they have chosen as a keyboard shortcut might conflict with something else that a user has on their system and include the ability to reassign shortcuts due to this.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Richard Bartholomew
 

Yes, I must admit to not bothering to look into this as I, too, assumed the gestures were to do with touch screens!  I should have learned by now not to assume anything!



Regards
Richard Bartholomew


On 15 Feb 2019, at 23:21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Richard,

            I will admit that I, too, find the adoption of the terminology "input gestures" for what are almost universally dubbed "keyboard shortcuts" just plain weird.  But I also know that most developers of things that have keyboard shortcuts that are add-ons know that what they have chosen as a keyboard shortcut might conflict with something else that a user has on their system and include the ability to reassign shortcuts due to this.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

 

Richard,

            I will admit that I, too, find the adoption of the terminology "input gestures" for what are almost universally dubbed "keyboard shortcuts" just plain weird.  But I also know that most developers of things that have keyboard shortcuts that are add-ons know that what they have chosen as a keyboard shortcut might conflict with something else that a user has on their system and include the ability to reassign shortcuts due to this.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Richard Wells
 

Brian: This is extremely helpful. For some reason, I have never thought of looking at the gestures preferences. they sounded more like touch commands to me. Maybe because other access technology refers to this is keyboard preferences. Anyway, thanks for the pointers. It just didn't click with me until you explained it the way you did. The human brain is a strange organism.


On 2/15/2019 4:55 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 05:37 PM, Richard Wells wrote:
I need Clip Contents Designer to work as well and Golden Cursor has key conflicts
With regard to Clip Contents Designer, its own add-on page clearly states:   Note: The above commands can be changed from NVDA menu, Preferences submenu, Input gestures dialog, Text review category.

With regard to Golden Cursor, its add-on page clearly states:  Note: these gestures can be reassigned via NVDA's Input Gestures dialog under Golden Cursor category.

On quick reading it appears that there's a single key conflict.  It's a simple matter to reassign that command, NVDA+Windows+C, for one of the two add-ons.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

 

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 05:37 PM, Richard Wells wrote:
I need Clip Contents Designer to work as well and Golden Cursor has key conflicts
With regard to Clip Contents Designer, its own add-on page clearly states:   Note: The above commands can be changed from NVDA menu, Preferences submenu, Input gestures dialog, Text review category.

With regard to Golden Cursor, its add-on page clearly states:  Note: these gestures can be reassigned via NVDA's Input Gestures dialog under Golden Cursor category.

On quick reading it appears that there's a single key conflict.  It's a simple matter to reassign that command, NVDA+Windows+C, for one of the two add-ons.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Richard Wells
 

I would love to use Golden Cursor, but I need Clip Contents Designer to work as well and Golden Cursor has key conflicts. If I must choose, I'll have to stick with Clip Contents Designer.

On 2/15/2019 4:26 PM, David Moore wrote:

Hi!

I use Golden cursor all the time to access software that I could not any other way!

After you install the add-on, you can choose the number of pixels you want to move by in any direction.

When you press:

Windows+NVDA+P, you hear, in pixels, where the mouse pointer is on the screen.

The x coordinate is first, and Y is second.

You can save pixel positions of where you want to go.

Golden cursor allows you to do much more with the mouse than JAWS.

That add-on is the key to what you want.

Golden cursor is my favorite add-on that I use the most!

David Moore

 

                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: hurrikennyandopo ...
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 2:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Hi

 

The golden cursor can do that and more. It can also do i think you call them hot points etc

 

 

I think there is also a restricted mode where you can only use the mouse with in a certain area or make it un restricted so it is not.

I am sure i read a reference to that.

 

It can be found on the nvda add ons page.

 

Gene nz

 

On 15/02/2019 10:09 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hello Jean,

 

OK, those are precise movements, but you can’t physically move the mouse up down left or right a few pixels via the keyboard.  I’ve had to do this a few times.  JAWS has better mouse control from the keyboard.  For example, go into JAWS cursor and press Alt+Shift+up, down left or right, to move the mouse by a predefined number of pixels.

 

I’ve had to do this in custom software.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 14 February 2019 22:05
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

I haven't compared this to any extent and not for a long time.  It is my impression that JAWS is set by default, or can be set, to announce more graphics, at least in certain cases and that this may matter if you are trying to click on a clickable graphic.  But I'm not sure your distinction as to where things are on screen is correct. 

 

For example, in your example, you want to click on something on the left bottom of the screen.  There are screen review commands in NVDA to move you to the top line of the currewnt navigator object and to the bottom line of the navigator object.  There are commands to move you to the first character of the line you are on and the last character.  That is, the line you are on in the navigator object.

If I want to move to the bottom line, I would use shift 9 using the desktop layout.  If I want to move to the first character, I would then use shift 1. 

 

I can't be sure if this is the kind of thing you are describing you want NVDA to do, but it sounds as though that is part of it.  One thing NVDA doesn't have is a search the screen when in screen review feature.  This is an important feature that should be added. 

 

There are times you know a certain word or phrase is on a screen in a display with no cursor.  If you want to jump to it, you can't do so now.  If there were a find command, you could.

 

Gene

 

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 8:42 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Again, you misunderstand what I am saying.

If you need to click on something at the bottom left hand side of the
screen, it is easier to do this with the JAWS cursor, than any feature of
NVDA.  Window-Eyes had it best of all, because it had live mouse keys all
the time.

You can move by graphic, or by clip, for example.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte Single
Sent: 14 February 2019 14:38
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

No, I do not  think there are any visual enhancements in nvda. The name
itself says it; Non visual display access.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: February-14-19 8:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

No, this is not true.  Either can be used well with the mouse, and you've
taken what I'm saying out of context.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: 13 February 2019 17:22
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

Someone feel free to correct me if I am mistaken, but NVDA is designed so
that a low vision user can use the mouse.
JAWS, on the other hand, is strictly for someone that is totally blind.
Therefore, it would be less likely to be able to navigate by the mouse.















--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
 
Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which location (or locations) are nearest to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa).
To find out which software is installed on the APNK network please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/software To find out how to use NVDA on APNK computers please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/nvda
 

To find out which software is available on the Christchurch City Library network, and how to start the NVDA screen reader, please go to the following links. Software available  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faq/computers/#faq_5884  How to start the NVDA screen reader on Christchurch City Library computers  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faqs/what-screen-reader-software-is-available/
 
To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


 


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

David Moore
 

Hi!

I use Golden cursor all the time to access software that I could not any other way!

After you install the add-on, you can choose the number of pixels you want to move by in any direction.

When you press:

Windows+NVDA+P, you hear, in pixels, where the mouse pointer is on the screen.

The x coordinate is first, and Y is second.

You can save pixel positions of where you want to go.

Golden cursor allows you to do much more with the mouse than JAWS.

That add-on is the key to what you want.

Golden cursor is my favorite add-on that I use the most!

David Moore

 

                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: hurrikennyandopo ...
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 2:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Hi

 

The golden cursor can do that and more. It can also do i think you call them hot points etc

 

 

I think there is also a restricted mode where you can only use the mouse with in a certain area or make it un restricted so it is not.

I am sure i read a reference to that.

 

It can be found on the nvda add ons page.

 

Gene nz

 

On 15/02/2019 10:09 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hello Jean,

 

OK, those are precise movements, but you can’t physically move the mouse up down left or right a few pixels via the keyboard.  I’ve had to do this a few times.  JAWS has better mouse control from the keyboard.  For example, go into JAWS cursor and press Alt+Shift+up, down left or right, to move the mouse by a predefined number of pixels.

 

I’ve had to do this in custom software.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 14 February 2019 22:05
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

I haven't compared this to any extent and not for a long time.  It is my impression that JAWS is set by default, or can be set, to announce more graphics, at least in certain cases and that this may matter if you are trying to click on a clickable graphic.  But I'm not sure your distinction as to where things are on screen is correct. 

 

For example, in your example, you want to click on something on the left bottom of the screen.  There are screen review commands in NVDA to move you to the top line of the currewnt navigator object and to the bottom line of the navigator object.  There are commands to move you to the first character of the line you are on and the last character.  That is, the line you are on in the navigator object.

If I want to move to the bottom line, I would use shift 9 using the desktop layout.  If I want to move to the first character, I would then use shift 1. 

 

I can't be sure if this is the kind of thing you are describing you want NVDA to do, but it sounds as though that is part of it.  One thing NVDA doesn't have is a search the screen when in screen review feature.  This is an important feature that should be added. 

 

There are times you know a certain word or phrase is on a screen in a display with no cursor.  If you want to jump to it, you can't do so now.  If there were a find command, you could.

 

Gene

 

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 8:42 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Again, you misunderstand what I am saying.

If you need to click on something at the bottom left hand side of the
screen, it is easier to do this with the JAWS cursor, than any feature of
NVDA.  Window-Eyes had it best of all, because it had live mouse keys all
the time.

You can move by graphic, or by clip, for example.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte Single
Sent: 14 February 2019 14:38
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

No, I do not  think there are any visual enhancements in nvda. The name
itself says it; Non visual display access.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: February-14-19 8:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

No, this is not true.  Either can be used well with the mouse, and you've
taken what I'm saying out of context.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: 13 February 2019 17:22
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

Someone feel free to correct me if I am mistaken, but NVDA is designed so
that a low vision user can use the mouse.
JAWS, on the other hand, is strictly for someone that is totally blind.
Therefore, it would be less likely to be able to navigate by the mouse.















--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
 
Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which location (or locations) are nearest to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa).
To find out which software is installed on the APNK network please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/software To find out how to use NVDA on APNK computers please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/nvda
 

To find out which software is available on the Christchurch City Library network, and how to start the NVDA screen reader, please go to the following links. Software available  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faq/computers/#faq_5884  How to start the NVDA screen reader on Christchurch City Library computers  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faqs/what-screen-reader-software-is-available/
 
To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


 


Re: Captcha solving services and NVDA

Clarissa Mitchell
 

I recently came across this "anticaptcha" plugin. If you install it to
Chrome, you can solve 10 captchas for free.
https://antcpt.com/eng/home.html


Re: ITunes and NVDA

Brad Snyder
 

You can use iTunes with a screen reader, it just takes some getting use to.  Once you get the hang of it, it is very workable.

- Brad -




On Feb 15, 2019, at 15:10, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

Maybe I won’t use iTunes after all. Lol.
 
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 10:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] ITunes and NVDA
 
iTunes is confusing no matter what screen reader you are using.
I use iTunes on a Mac with VoiceOver, and it is just as big a mess there as on Windows with either NVDA or JAWS.
That’s just how it is.


- Brad -


 
On Feb 15, 2019, at 09:28, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:
 
I tried using iTunes  with NVDA and I had trouble navigating it. I found it confusing.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 9:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] ITunes and NVDA

I don't know what you mean by offers, but I do use itunes occasionally, though I really don't like it much, so it's generally reserved for those times I need to backup my iPhone, otherwise, I use amazon, spotify, serius xm, or my own version of an mp3 player I wrote depending on what I'm doing.  backing up the Iphone is about the only thing I use Itunes for these days, even though it insists on importing all my music, which irks me to no end, I just can't find the music I want to listen to when using Itunes, because it's interface has changed too much from when I used it on the mac, and had no issues with it.  I don't like the latest versions of Itunes for that reason, it's impossible to find anything.

On Fri, 15 Feb 2019, Ján Kulik wrote:


Hi all, does anyone use your iTunes on a computer with an NVDA reader? 
NVDA just does not announce any offers after the ALTm slider or iTunes 
version information. Unfortunately, I recently installed it.

Thank you for your answers.
Greetings from Slovakia







 



Re: Captcha solving services and NVDA

 

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 04:06 PM, Lisa-Maree wrote:
Just to let you all know, rumola is still there. 
It is if you already happen to have it installed.   I challenge you to find a way to get it on a machine that does not already have it (and I don't count using Chrome's sync function if you log in to Chrome).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: ITunes and NVDA

molly the blind tech lover
 

Maybe I won’t use iTunes after all. Lol.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 10:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] ITunes and NVDA

 

iTunes is confusing no matter what screen reader you are using.

I use iTunes on a Mac with VoiceOver, and it is just as big a mess there as on Windows with either NVDA or JAWS.

That’s just how it is.


- Brad -


 

On Feb 15, 2019, at 09:28, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

 

I tried using iTunes  with NVDA and I had trouble navigating it. I found it confusing.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 9:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] ITunes and NVDA

I don't know what you mean by offers, but I do use itunes occasionally, though I really don't like it much, so it's generally reserved for those times I need to backup my iPhone, otherwise, I use amazon, spotify, serius xm, or my own version of an mp3 player I wrote depending on what I'm doing.  backing up the Iphone is about the only thing I use Itunes for these days, even though it insists on importing all my music, which irks me to no end, I just can't find the music I want to listen to when using Itunes, because it's interface has changed too much from when I used it on the mac, and had no issues with it.  I don't like the latest versions of Itunes for that reason, it's impossible to find anything.

On Fri, 15 Feb 2019, Ján Kulik wrote:


Hi all, does anyone use your iTunes on a computer with an NVDA reader?
NVDA just does not announce any offers after the ALTm slider or iTunes
version information. Unfortunately, I recently installed it.

Thank you for your answers.
Greetings from Slovakia







 


Re: Captcha solving services and NVDA

Lisa-Maree
 

Hi,

Just to let you all know, rumola is still there.  I used it only yesterday in chrome to help solve a captcha.

 

Lisa-Maree

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, 16 February 2019 5:13 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Captcha solving services and NVDA

 

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 12:43 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I thought that service went away?

Rumola has gone away.  If you try to click through to the Google Web Store from the website given, which is their primary site, you get a "not found."

Since this "not found" is already reported as being persistent, I wouldn't hold out any hope for Rumola.  I actually still have the extension in my Chrome browser, but haven't had it turned on in ages.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


The golden cursor can do that and more. It can also do i think you call them hot points etc



I think there is also a restricted mode where you can only use the mouse with in a certain area or make it un restricted so it is not.

I am sure i read a reference to that.


It can be found on the nvda add ons page.


Gene nz


On 15/02/2019 10:09 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hello Jean,

 

OK, those are precise movements, but you can’t physically move the mouse up down left or right a few pixels via the keyboard.  I’ve had to do this a few times.  JAWS has better mouse control from the keyboard.  For example, go into JAWS cursor and press Alt+Shift+up, down left or right, to move the mouse by a predefined number of pixels.

 

I’ve had to do this in custom software.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 14 February 2019 22:05
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

I haven't compared this to any extent and not for a long time.  It is my impression that JAWS is set by default, or can be set, to announce more graphics, at least in certain cases and that this may matter if you are trying to click on a clickable graphic.  But I'm not sure your distinction as to where things are on screen is correct. 

 

For example, in your example, you want to click on something on the left bottom of the screen.  There are screen review commands in NVDA to move you to the top line of the currewnt navigator object and to the bottom line of the navigator object.  There are commands to move you to the first character of the line you are on and the last character.  That is, the line you are on in the navigator object.

If I want to move to the bottom line, I would use shift 9 using the desktop layout.  If I want to move to the first character, I would then use shift 1. 

 

I can't be sure if this is the kind of thing you are describing you want NVDA to do, but it sounds as though that is part of it.  One thing NVDA doesn't have is a search the screen when in screen review feature.  This is an important feature that should be added. 

 

There are times you know a certain word or phrase is on a screen in a display with no cursor.  If you want to jump to it, you can't do so now.  If there were a find command, you could.

 

Gene

 

Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 8:42 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Again, you misunderstand what I am saying.

If you need to click on something at the bottom left hand side of the
screen, it is easier to do this with the JAWS cursor, than any feature of
NVDA.  Window-Eyes had it best of all, because it had live mouse keys all
the time.

You can move by graphic, or by clip, for example.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte Single
Sent: 14 February 2019 14:38
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

No, I do not  think there are any visual enhancements in nvda. The name
itself says it; Non visual display access.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: February-14-19 8:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

No, this is not true.  Either can be used well with the mouse, and you've
taken what I'm saying out of context.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: 13 February 2019 17:22
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

Someone feel free to correct me if I am mistaken, but NVDA is designed so
that a low vision user can use the mouse.
JAWS, on the other hand, is strictly for someone that is totally blind.
Therefore, it would be less likely to be able to navigate by the mouse.














--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
 
Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which location (or locations) are nearest to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa).
To find out which software is installed on the APNK network please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/software To find out how to use NVDA on APNK computers please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/nvda
 

To find out which software is available on the Christchurch City Library network, and how to start the NVDA screen reader, please go to the following links. Software available  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faq/computers/#faq_5884  How to start the NVDA screen reader on Christchurch City Library computers  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faqs/what-screen-reader-software-is-available/
 
To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.