1. nvda@nvda.groups.io
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Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Shaun Everiss
 

You know, explaining what we do depends on what we know.

As a computer geek I find it natural to go flat tack and explain things in technical terms, sometimes I forget to translate back to normal understandable language and find it hard to do so at times.



On 16/02/2019 6:51 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Ah, I think I see where this is going.

So if I’m getting this right, I got an F in explaining the whole thing. This is good news, as it is a validation of a long-standing issue I had in regards to NVDA’s own documentation set: needs major overhaul (one of the reasons for creating my audio tutorials in the first place), and the approach we as developers take to explain how things work isn’t working. As a person who is serious about documentation, I take it as a personal failure.

How about this analogy: think of gestures as roads you take to arrive at a certain location. Suppose you wish to go from point A to point B. You can either walk, drive, or fly. It doesn’t matter how you do it as long as you get to your destination. In the same way, when doing a command, it doesn’t matter how you do it – either from the keyboard, a touch gesture, and what not, as long as you get something from NVDA. Adding, removing, or reassigning gestures (or commands) can be akin to adding new roads, getting around an obstruction, or closing off the airspace around the route.

The things listed in Input Gestures dialog can be thought of as follows:

  • Categories: all sorts of things you can do with NVDA, categorized into different types of tasks.
  • Command descriptions: what NVDA can do, or in case of the analogy above, your destination.
  • Gesture (or command) itself: ways of performing that command, or using the analogy above, modes of travel.

 

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 9:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Hi Joseph,
You are probably right that this should be a separate thread. However, I just want to point out that your whole explanation about JawsScripps etc. is he relevant to the average user who does not really care about programming, scripting, etc. The average user wants to use the screen reader and is not interested in all the stuff that you talked about in your last message. So when you design an interface, you need to have the average user in mind. That is the person who wants to do a task with the computer, not the geek, not the techie, and not the programmer.  Do you honestly think that the hundreds of millions of computer users throughout the world, that is the cited users, would be using computers if they had to deal with this crap? The answer is no. That’s why they invented the graphic user interface. It’s easy for sighted people. What blind programmers and others who want to make screen readers need to do is make the screen reader interface as friendly as possible for the average non-techie person.
and that means using plain language where ever possible, even if it isn’t nice and elegant.g

Mary

 


On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:28 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

I think we should devote a separate thread for it, but to give you a short answer:

Those of you coming from JAWS scripting world might be familiar with the terms “script” and “function”. They are essentially the same: both perform something which can be called upon from other places. The crucial difference is how it is invoked: a script is a function with a piece of input attached.

In the same way, NVDA code can define functions (they are really Python functions). Just like JAWS scripts, the one difference between a function and a script is how you invoke it: you need a piece of input to invoke a script (basically a specially tagged function), which can call other functions, run other scripts, and even kill NVDA (if you want, but don’t try that at home). As long as any kind of command is assigned to a script (keyboard command, a touchscreen gesture, a braille display hardware button, etc.), NVDA will let you perform something. This is why you can assign touch commands to keyboard commands and vice versa, because NVDA do let you assign (technically called “binding”) all sorts of input mechanism for a command (for instance, just as you can use keyboard to perform object navigation routines, a set of touch swipes has been defined to perform object navigation; in fact, these commands call the same routine).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 9:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Good idea. There is probably some programming thing that gets in the way. I hope not though, because it makes very much sense.



On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:14 PM, Richard Wells <richwels@...> wrote:

Why couldn't they be in different preference categories? Braille for Braille, Keyboard for Keyboard, Gestures for Touch screens and Voice control for Voice control?

On 2/15/2019 6:38 PM, Gene wrote:

The problem is, what should this array of ways of input be called?  Maybe input commands, which would cover everything.  This is just one more example of the decline of English.  Apps and applications, two different things, are used increasingly interchangeably.  the language in general is becoming less precise and accurate and this is just one area.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Vogel

Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 6:15 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Input gestures are more abstract

Which is precisely the problem.  Callin something that is intimately familiar to the typical end user, and when it's currently the only method (regardless of keyboard being used), something "more abstract" is not the way to go. 

The folks at NV Access are far from the only software developers to go this route.   Almost every time it's the route taken it makes things more opaque to the target demographic, which is why it should be avoided in the first place.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Joseph Lee
 

Hi,

Ah, I think I see where this is going.

So if I’m getting this right, I got an F in explaining the whole thing. This is good news, as it is a validation of a long-standing issue I had in regards to NVDA’s own documentation set: needs major overhaul (one of the reasons for creating my audio tutorials in the first place), and the approach we as developers take to explain how things work isn’t working. As a person who is serious about documentation, I take it as a personal failure.

How about this analogy: think of gestures as roads you take to arrive at a certain location. Suppose you wish to go from point A to point B. You can either walk, drive, or fly. It doesn’t matter how you do it as long as you get to your destination. In the same way, when doing a command, it doesn’t matter how you do it – either from the keyboard, a touch gesture, and what not, as long as you get something from NVDA. Adding, removing, or reassigning gestures (or commands) can be akin to adding new roads, getting around an obstruction, or closing off the airspace around the route.

The things listed in Input Gestures dialog can be thought of as follows:

  • Categories: all sorts of things you can do with NVDA, categorized into different types of tasks.
  • Command descriptions: what NVDA can do, or in case of the analogy above, your destination.
  • Gesture (or command) itself: ways of performing that command, or using the analogy above, modes of travel.

 

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 9:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Hi Joseph,
You are probably right that this should be a separate thread. However, I just want to point out that your whole explanation about JawsScripps etc. is he relevant to the average user who does not really care about programming, scripting, etc. The average user wants to use the screen reader and is not interested in all the stuff that you talked about in your last message. So when you design an interface, you need to have the average user in mind. That is the person who wants to do a task with the computer, not the geek, not the techie, and not the programmer.  Do you honestly think that the hundreds of millions of computer users throughout the world, that is the cited users, would be using computers if they had to deal with this crap? The answer is no. That’s why they invented the graphic user interface. It’s easy for sighted people. What blind programmers and others who want to make screen readers need to do is make the screen reader interface as friendly as possible for the average non-techie person.
and that means using plain language where ever possible, even if it isn’t nice and elegant.g

Mary

 


On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:28 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

I think we should devote a separate thread for it, but to give you a short answer:

Those of you coming from JAWS scripting world might be familiar with the terms “script” and “function”. They are essentially the same: both perform something which can be called upon from other places. The crucial difference is how it is invoked: a script is a function with a piece of input attached.

In the same way, NVDA code can define functions (they are really Python functions). Just like JAWS scripts, the one difference between a function and a script is how you invoke it: you need a piece of input to invoke a script (basically a specially tagged function), which can call other functions, run other scripts, and even kill NVDA (if you want, but don’t try that at home). As long as any kind of command is assigned to a script (keyboard command, a touchscreen gesture, a braille display hardware button, etc.), NVDA will let you perform something. This is why you can assign touch commands to keyboard commands and vice versa, because NVDA do let you assign (technically called “binding”) all sorts of input mechanism for a command (for instance, just as you can use keyboard to perform object navigation routines, a set of touch swipes has been defined to perform object navigation; in fact, these commands call the same routine).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 9:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Good idea. There is probably some programming thing that gets in the way. I hope not though, because it makes very much sense.



On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:14 PM, Richard Wells <richwels@...> wrote:

Why couldn't they be in different preference categories? Braille for Braille, Keyboard for Keyboard, Gestures for Touch screens and Voice control for Voice control?

On 2/15/2019 6:38 PM, Gene wrote:

The problem is, what should this array of ways of input be called?  Maybe input commands, which would cover everything.  This is just one more example of the decline of English.  Apps and applications, two different things, are used increasingly interchangeably.  the language in general is becoming less precise and accurate and this is just one area.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 6:15 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Input gestures are more abstract

Which is precisely the problem.  Callin something that is intimately familiar to the typical end user, and when it's currently the only method (regardless of keyboard being used), something "more abstract" is not the way to go. 

The folks at NV Access are far from the only software developers to go this route.   Almost every time it's the route taken it makes things more opaque to the target demographic, which is why it should be avoided in the first place.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Joseph Lee
 

Hi,

More importantly, let me know if the below description is digestible (I’d be happy to give you a detailed description of how it works internally, provided that I have enough strength to do it before sleep overtakes me).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 9:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Hi,

I think we should devote a separate thread for it, but to give you a short answer:

Those of you coming from JAWS scripting world might be familiar with the terms “script” and “function”. They are essentially the same: both perform something which can be called upon from other places. The crucial difference is how it is invoked: a script is a function with a piece of input attached.

In the same way, NVDA code can define functions (they are really Python functions). Just like JAWS scripts, the one difference between a function and a script is how you invoke it: you need a piece of input to invoke a script (basically a specially tagged function), which can call other functions, run other scripts, and even kill NVDA (if you want, but don’t try that at home). As long as any kind of command is assigned to a script (keyboard command, a touchscreen gesture, a braille display hardware button, etc.), NVDA will let you perform something. This is why you can assign touch commands to keyboard commands and vice versa, because NVDA do let you assign (technically called “binding”) all sorts of input mechanism for a command (for instance, just as you can use keyboard to perform object navigation routines, a set of touch swipes has been defined to perform object navigation; in fact, these commands call the same routine).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 9:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Good idea. There is probably some programming thing that gets in the way. I hope not though, because it makes very much sense.


On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:14 PM, Richard Wells <richwels@...> wrote:

Why couldn't they be in different preference categories? Braille for Braille, Keyboard for Keyboard, Gestures for Touch screens and Voice control for Voice control?

On 2/15/2019 6:38 PM, Gene wrote:

The problem is, what should this array of ways of input be called?  Maybe input commands, which would cover everything.  This is just one more example of the decline of English.  Apps and applications, two different things, are used increasingly interchangeably.  the language in general is becoming less precise and accurate and this is just one area.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 6:15 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Input gestures are more abstract

Which is precisely the problem.  Callin something that is intimately familiar to the typical end user, and when it's currently the only method (regardless of keyboard being used), something "more abstract" is not the way to go. 

The folks at NV Access are far from the only software developers to go this route.   Almost every time it's the route taken it makes things more opaque to the target demographic, which is why it should be avoided in the first place.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Mary Otten
 

Hi Joseph,
You are probably right that this should be a separate thread. However, I just want to point out that your whole explanation about JawsScripps etc. is he relevant to the average user who does not really care about programming, scripting, etc. The average user wants to use the screen reader and is not interested in all the stuff that you talked about in your last message. So when you design an interface, you need to have the average user in mind. That is the person who wants to do a task with the computer, not the geek, not the techie, and not the programmer.  Do you honestly think that the hundreds of millions of computer users throughout the world, that is the cited users, would be using computers if they had to deal with this crap? The answer is no. That’s why they invented the graphic user interface. It’s easy for sighted people. What blind programmers and others who want to make screen readers need to do is make the screen reader interface as friendly as possible for the average non-techie person.
and that means using plain language where ever possible, even if it isn’t nice and elegant.g
Mary



On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:28 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

I think we should devote a separate thread for it, but to give you a short answer:

Those of you coming from JAWS scripting world might be familiar with the terms “script” and “function”. They are essentially the same: both perform something which can be called upon from other places. The crucial difference is how it is invoked: a script is a function with a piece of input attached.

In the same way, NVDA code can define functions (they are really Python functions). Just like JAWS scripts, the one difference between a function and a script is how you invoke it: you need a piece of input to invoke a script (basically a specially tagged function), which can call other functions, run other scripts, and even kill NVDA (if you want, but don’t try that at home). As long as any kind of command is assigned to a script (keyboard command, a touchscreen gesture, a braille display hardware button, etc.), NVDA will let you perform something. This is why you can assign touch commands to keyboard commands and vice versa, because NVDA do let you assign (technically called “binding”) all sorts of input mechanism for a command (for instance, just as you can use keyboard to perform object navigation routines, a set of touch swipes has been defined to perform object navigation; in fact, these commands call the same routine).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 9:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Good idea. There is probably some programming thing that gets in the way. I hope not though, because it makes very much sense.


On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:14 PM, Richard Wells <richwels@...> wrote:

Why couldn't they be in different preference categories? Braille for Braille, Keyboard for Keyboard, Gestures for Touch screens and Voice control for Voice control?

On 2/15/2019 6:38 PM, Gene wrote:

The problem is, what should this array of ways of input be called?  Maybe input commands, which would cover everything.  This is just one more example of the decline of English.  Apps and applications, two different things, are used increasingly interchangeably.  the language in general is becoming less precise and accurate and this is just one area.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 6:15 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Input gestures are more abstract

Which is precisely the problem.  Callin something that is intimately familiar to the typical end user, and when it's currently the only method (regardless of keyboard being used), something "more abstract" is not the way to go. 

The folks at NV Access are far from the only software developers to go this route.   Almost every time it's the route taken it makes things more opaque to the target demographic, which is why it should be avoided in the first place.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Joseph Lee
 

Hi,

I think we should devote a separate thread for it, but to give you a short answer:

Those of you coming from JAWS scripting world might be familiar with the terms “script” and “function”. They are essentially the same: both perform something which can be called upon from other places. The crucial difference is how it is invoked: a script is a function with a piece of input attached.

In the same way, NVDA code can define functions (they are really Python functions). Just like JAWS scripts, the one difference between a function and a script is how you invoke it: you need a piece of input to invoke a script (basically a specially tagged function), which can call other functions, run other scripts, and even kill NVDA (if you want, but don’t try that at home). As long as any kind of command is assigned to a script (keyboard command, a touchscreen gesture, a braille display hardware button, etc.), NVDA will let you perform something. This is why you can assign touch commands to keyboard commands and vice versa, because NVDA do let you assign (technically called “binding”) all sorts of input mechanism for a command (for instance, just as you can use keyboard to perform object navigation routines, a set of touch swipes has been defined to perform object navigation; in fact, these commands call the same routine).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 9:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Good idea. There is probably some programming thing that gets in the way. I hope not though, because it makes very much sense.


On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:14 PM, Richard Wells <richwels@...> wrote:

Why couldn't they be in different preference categories? Braille for Braille, Keyboard for Keyboard, Gestures for Touch screens and Voice control for Voice control?

On 2/15/2019 6:38 PM, Gene wrote:

The problem is, what should this array of ways of input be called?  Maybe input commands, which would cover everything.  This is just one more example of the decline of English.  Apps and applications, two different things, are used increasingly interchangeably.  the language in general is becoming less precise and accurate and this is just one area.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 6:15 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Input gestures are more abstract

Which is precisely the problem.  Callin something that is intimately familiar to the typical end user, and when it's currently the only method (regardless of keyboard being used), something "more abstract" is not the way to go. 

The folks at NV Access are far from the only software developers to go this route.   Almost every time it's the route taken it makes things more opaque to the target demographic, which is why it should be avoided in the first place.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Mary Otten
 

Good idea. There is probably some programming thing that gets in the way. I hope not though, because it makes very much sense.



On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:14 PM, Richard Wells <richwels@...> wrote:

Why couldn't they be in different preference categories? Braille for Braille, Keyboard for Keyboard, Gestures for Touch screens and Voice control for Voice control?

On 2/15/2019 6:38 PM, Gene wrote:
The problem is, what should this array of ways of input be called?  Maybe input commands, which would cover everything.  This is just one more example of the decline of English.  Apps and applications, two different things, are used increasingly interchangeably.  the language in general is becoming less precise and accurate and this is just one area.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Input gestures are more abstract
Which is precisely the problem.  Callin something that is intimately familiar to the typical end user, and when it's currently the only method (regardless of keyboard being used), something "more abstract" is not the way to go. 

The folks at NV Access are far from the only software developers to go this route.   Almost every time it's the route taken it makes things more opaque to the target demographic, which is why it should be avoided in the first place.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Richard Wells
 

Why couldn't they be in different preference categories? Braille for Braille, Keyboard for Keyboard, Gestures for Touch screens and Voice control for Voice control?

On 2/15/2019 6:38 PM, Gene wrote:
The problem is, what should this array of ways of input be called?  Maybe input commands, which would cover everything.  This is just one more example of the decline of English.  Apps and applications, two different things, are used increasingly interchangeably.  the language in general is becoming less precise and accurate and this is just one area.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Input gestures are more abstract
Which is precisely the problem.  Callin something that is intimately familiar to the typical end user, and when it's currently the only method (regardless of keyboard being used), something "more abstract" is not the way to go. 

The folks at NV Access are far from the only software developers to go this route.   Almost every time it's the route taken it makes things more opaque to the target demographic, which is why it should be avoided in the first place.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Using Office Products with UIA

Noah Carver
 

Hi All,

 

Heard some folks talking about major performance improvements provided by using UIA in Microsoft Office. Does anyone know how to enable UIA for these applications?

 

Thanks,

 

Noah

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 
Re: Captcha solving services and NVDA

David Goldfield
 

Bianka and others,

While I haven't used these yet, as I've only been made aware of them today, I'll pass on two captcha solvers to you.


One of them is called Buster.

The other is called anti-Captcha Solver.


Again, I haven't had a chance to try them out but I hope to do so shortly. I'm also planning to add a page to my Web site listening current as well as discontinued captcha solvers as I think such a service is needed.



David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 2/15/2019 4:58 AM, Bianka Brankovic wrote:
Hello all, 

as Webvisum, at least to my knowledge, has been discontinued, I am wondering if there are affordable captcha solving services which are accessible with NVDA? 

Anny input on this is highly appreciated.

Thanks and kind regards,

Bianka

Re: acapella and codefactory voices

David Goldfield
 

Isaac,

I think the only way to get assistance is to contact Codefactory directly.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 2/12/2019 10:34 PM, Isaac wrote:
Hi, I was wondering how to re-authorize acapella and code factory voices I
lost my codes and all, is there a way I could get help?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 4:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] acapella and codefactory voices

Isac:
I don't see any providers in your last post.
Did I miss something?

Re: Captcha solving services and NVDA

David Goldfield
 

Clarissa,

Thank you so much for making us aware of this particular captcha solver. I will certainly give it a try. Some of the instructions on their page are not very user-friendly and, to put it politely, the English translation could use some work. However, the prices are certainly reasonable. As the blindness community is trying to wrestle with which captcha solvers are no longer available and which ones are working it occurs to me that someone needs to have a Web page with current information regarding the state of captcha solving solutions. I need to be careful whenever I begin a sentence with "someone needs to ..." because sometimes that means that maybe I'm the someone who should consider volunteering. Therefore, I happily volunteer. If anybody else knows of captcha solvers which are currently available, please reply publicly to the list and I will gather this information and will soon have a page about this set up on my personal Web site.


All the best and thank you again for letting us know about this service.



David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com
Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Joseph Lee
 

Hi,

No, these are categories, not commands themselves. It is possible to add touchscreen gestures to a keyboard command and vice versa, and some add-ons (including at least two of mine) come with touchscreen gestures for some keyboard commands.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of hurrikennyandopo ...
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 5:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Hi

 

this might be a dum question or maybe not.

 

I was looking through the input gestures for nvda and most are for the keyboard for desk top and lap top but there is also a section small as it is for touch gestures.

 

if some one had a device where they can do touch gestures is it this section also where they asign them?

 

When you go to the input gesture help section in the user manual it mentions more for keyboard and braile displays is the touch gestures the etc part?

 

Gene nz

 

On 16/02/2019 12:21 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Richard,

            I will admit that I, too, find the adoption of the terminology "input gestures" for what are almost universally dubbed "keyboard shortcuts" just plain weird.  But I also know that most developers of things that have keyboard shortcuts that are add-ons know that what they have chosen as a keyboard shortcut might conflict with something else that a user has on their system and include the ability to reassign shortcuts due to this.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
 
Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which location (or locations) are nearest to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find out which software is installed on the APNK network please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/software To find out how to use NVDA on APNK computers please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/nvda
 
To find out which software is available on the Christchurch City Library network, and how to start the NVDA screen reader, please go to the following links. Software available  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faq/computers/#faq_5884  How to start the NVDA screen reader on Christchurch City Library computers  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faqs/what-screen-reader-software-is-available/
 
To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Sarah k Alawami
 

And that'show I picture gesture. I think in pictures when I either speak or read A command is just that, an order, a key stroke, Ok, close enough.

On 15 Feb 2019, at 17:46, Mary Otten wrote:

Hi Joseph,
As a former translator of both Russian and Arabic, I would like to point out that the word gesture in English would never be translated as command or anything like that in either of those languages. A gesture is something you do, say with your hands or maybe your head,  as in a nod. It’s a visual signal. It has absolutely nothing in the general sense to do with inputting stuff to a computer except on a touchscreen. So I don’t know how they’re translating that in other languages. But if I were translating it into Russian, I would not use the equivalent word for gesture, as it would make no sense


On Feb 15, 2019, at 5:36 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

Hmmm, Quentin, any thoughts? I think part of the problem may have to do with attempts at carrying old assumptions forward. I’m interested in your comments, as renaming a menu item will have vast consequences for not just users and English speakers, but speakers of other languages, tutorial writers, and NVDA promoters.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 4:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

How about just "commands" YOu know, K I S S?

Take care

On 15 Feb 2019, at 16:44, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:38 PM, Gene wrote:

Maybe input commands, which would cover everything.

We're all getting very meta, and quickly, aren't we?

Gene, you and I are clearly on the same page.  I'd even pare off "input."  In the computing world (and even regular one, really) commands are generally thought of as input to a system/person, issued from outside.

There are definitely output commands too, but in the context of programming, which the non-programmer generally has no interest in.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Joseph Lee
 

Hi,

A few years ago the Korean translations team (me included) had a small debate as to how to translate the notion of “gestures” into Korean. In the end, we settled on translating “input gestures” as “hotkey settings”.

As for technical writing: having delved into that for more than a decade (starting out as a high school senior in 2008), I do know how complex the process and business of tech writing and transcoding is (transcoding refers to coding something from one form of presentation to another) and describing complex things in the process. My most recent exercise in this arena has been writing expository essays on internals of some of the most complex NVDA add-ons out there, particularly for an add-on I myself didn’t write (Systray List). Folks who’ve been in this business (professionally or as a hobby) may have a common ground in talking about the process of solidifying a concept – that is, describing an abstract thing or a process in a way that many people can understand, or make it understandable to some in hopes that they can make it easier for others to follow. Also, we see different people as role models or indirect teachers of this craft – my role model is David Pogue, a former New York Times columnist who wrote books under The Missing Manual series (I don’t think he has updated his book on Windows 10 in quite a while).

Perhaps I should request a lightning talk slot in this year’s NVDACon to talk about technical writing profession…

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 5:46 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Hi Joseph,
As a former translator of both Russian and Arabic, I would like to point out that the word gesture in English would never be translated as command or anything like that in either of those languages. A gesture is something you do, say with your hands or maybe your head,  as in a nod. It’s a visual signal. It has absolutely nothing in the general sense to do with inputting stuff to a computer except on a touchscreen. So I don’t know how they’re translating that in other languages. But if I were translating it into Russian, I would not use the equivalent word for gesture, as it would make no sense

 


On Feb 15, 2019, at 5:36 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

Hmmm, Quentin, any thoughts? I think part of the problem may have to do with attempts at carrying old assumptions forward. I’m interested in your comments, as renaming a menu item will have vast consequences for not just users and English speakers, but speakers of other languages, tutorial writers, and NVDA promoters.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 4:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

How about just "commands" YOu know, K I S S?

Take care

On 15 Feb 2019, at 16:44, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:38 PM, Gene wrote:

Maybe input commands, which would cover everything.

We're all getting very meta, and quickly, aren't we?

Gene, you and I are clearly on the same page.  I'd even pare off "input."  In the computing world (and even regular one, really) commands are generally thought of as input to a system/person, issued from outside.

There are definitely output commands too, but in the context of programming, which the non-programmer generally has no interest in.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Rui Fontes
 

Hello!

In the portuguese comunity, for Portugal and Brasil, we use only "Commands" instead of "Input gestures".

Regards,

Rui Fontes
Portuguese NVDA team


Às 01:36 de 16/02/2019, Joseph Lee escreveu:

Hi,
Hmmm, Quentin, any thoughts? I think part of the problem may have to do with attempts at carrying old assumptions forward. I’m interested in your comments, as renaming a menu item will have vast consequences for not just users and English speakers, but speakers of other languages, tutorial writers, and NVDA promoters.
Cheers,
Joseph
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Sarah k Alawami
*Sent:* Friday, February 15, 2019 4:54 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions
How about just "commands" YOu know, K I S S?
Take care
On 15 Feb 2019, at 16:44, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:38 PM, Gene wrote:
Maybe input commands, which would cover everything.
We're all getting very meta, and quickly, aren't we?
Gene, you and I are clearly on the same page.  I'd even pare off
"input."  In the computing world (and even regular one, really)
commands are generally thought of as input to a system/person,
issued from outside.
There are definitely output commands too, but in the context of
programming, which the non-programmer generally has no interest in.
--
Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
/*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
need for illusion is deep.*/
          ~ Saul Bellow, /To Jerusalem and Back/
Re: Some mouse navigation questions

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


this might be a dum question or maybe not.


I was looking through the input gestures for nvda and most are for the keyboard for desk top and lap top but there is also a section small as it is for touch gestures.


if some one had a device where they can do touch gestures is it this section also where they asign them?


When you go to the input gesture help section in the user manual it mentions more for keyboard and braile displays is the touch gestures the etc part?


Gene nz


On 16/02/2019 12:21 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Richard,

            I will admit that I, too, find the adoption of the terminology "input gestures" for what are almost universally dubbed "keyboard shortcuts" just plain weird.  But I also know that most developers of things that have keyboard shortcuts that are add-ons know that what they have chosen as a keyboard shortcut might conflict with something else that a user has on their system and include the ability to reassign shortcuts due to this.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
 
Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which location (or locations) are nearest to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find out which software is installed on the APNK network please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/software To find out how to use NVDA on APNK computers please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/nvda
 
To find out which software is available on the Christchurch City Library network, and how to start the NVDA screen reader, please go to the following links. Software available  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faq/computers/#faq_5884  How to start the NVDA screen reader on Christchurch City Library computers  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faqs/what-screen-reader-software-is-available/
 
To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Mary Otten
 

Hi Joseph,
As a former translator of both Russian and Arabic, I would like to point out that the word gesture in English would never be translated as command or anything like that in either of those languages. A gesture is something you do, say with your hands or maybe your head,  as in a nod. It’s a visual signal. It has absolutely nothing in the general sense to do with inputting stuff to a computer except on a touchscreen. So I don’t know how they’re translating that in other languages. But if I were translating it into Russian, I would not use the equivalent word for gesture, as it would make no sense


On Feb 15, 2019, at 5:36 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

Hmmm, Quentin, any thoughts? I think part of the problem may have to do with attempts at carrying old assumptions forward. I’m interested in your comments, as renaming a menu item will have vast consequences for not just users and English speakers, but speakers of other languages, tutorial writers, and NVDA promoters.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 4:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

How about just "commands" YOu know, K I S S?

Take care

On 15 Feb 2019, at 16:44, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:38 PM, Gene wrote:

Maybe input commands, which would cover everything.

We're all getting very meta, and quickly, aren't we?

Gene, you and I are clearly on the same page.  I'd even pare off "input."  In the computing world (and even regular one, really) commands are generally thought of as input to a system/person, issued from outside.

There are definitely output commands too, but in the context of programming, which the non-programmer generally has no interest in.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Joseph Lee
 

Hi,

Hmmm, Quentin, any thoughts? I think part of the problem may have to do with attempts at carrying old assumptions forward. I’m interested in your comments, as renaming a menu item will have vast consequences for not just users and English speakers, but speakers of other languages, tutorial writers, and NVDA promoters.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 4:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

How about just "commands" YOu know, K I S S?

Take care

On 15 Feb 2019, at 16:44, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:38 PM, Gene wrote:

Maybe input commands, which would cover everything.

We're all getting very meta, and quickly, aren't we?

Gene, you and I are clearly on the same page.  I'd even pare off "input."  In the computing world (and even regular one, really) commands are generally thought of as input to a system/person, issued from outside.

There are definitely output commands too, but in the context of programming, which the non-programmer generally has no interest in.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Sarah k Alawami
 

How about just "commands" YOu know, K I S S?

Take care

On 15 Feb 2019, at 16:44, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:38 PM, Gene wrote:
Maybe input commands, which would cover everything.
We're all getting very meta, and quickly, aren't we?

Gene, you and I are clearly on the same page.  I'd even pare off "input."  In the computing world (and even regular one, really) commands are generally thought of as input to a system/person, issued from outside.

There are definitely output commands too, but in the context of programming, which the non-programmer generally has no interest in.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Brian Vogel
 

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:38 PM, Gene wrote:
Maybe input commands, which would cover everything.
We're all getting very meta, and quickly, aren't we?

Gene, you and I are clearly on the same page.  I'd even pare off "input."  In the computing world (and even regular one, really) commands are generally thought of as input to a system/person, issued from outside.

There are definitely output commands too, but in the context of programming, which the non-programmer generally has no interest in.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
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