Date   

Re: Using Office Products with UIA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

As an aside with this.
1. if one puts this into the console in a portable version, does this only apply to that version
2. Should one be able to see any difference in a portable version, given that it has no access to the resources being installed gives it?
3. Why when one types the whole thing in can one only see the first part, ie the first line up to the end of import config?

4. Given that one cannot see the rest, then does the command really work, or is there something wrong with the console.
IE I've tried this on a couple of snaps of recent versions and although only slight I'd suggest that it has a beneficial effect on two issues in windows 7. IE the opened folder announcement works reliable and
More reliable page reading in Firefox when it has to load in a big page.

These may well be just the way things go, but I thought I'd ask as if it does speed some things up, there might be some kind of speed up in disabling it for some actions via an app module of some kind if windows 7 is in use.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <@joslee>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2019 6:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA


Hi,
Before I show you how to do it, I'm going to warn you that, once UIA is turned off, you may experience oddities. If you feel that NVDA is acting odd for some reason, and if it turns out turning off UIA is to blame, then you MUST turn UIA on and NEVER, EVER turn off UIA again (and if you do then ask for instructions on how to turn off UIA, then I will definitely say, "sorry, I gave you warnings, but perhaps your heart didn't see it coming").
To toggle UIA support:
1. Press Control+NVDA+Z to open Python Console.
2. Type the following as exactly as I show you:

import config
config.conf["UIA"]["enabled"] = False

3. Press Enter, then press Escape to close, then restart NVDA.
4. To enable UIA, repeat the above steps, but replace "False" with "True".

The above procedure may produce side effects, such as oddities, NVDA announcing extra things or not announcing things as it should and so on. The above procedure should NEVER be attempted on Windows 8 and later because NVDA relies on UIA for crucial tasks such as announcing Start search suggestions, reading toast notifications, and for Windows 10, making your lives easier when using various Windows 10 apps (including current iteration of Microsoft Edge). You are warned.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of zahra
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 9:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA

hi.
thanks for replying me.
how can i modify configuration file?
i wish to turn off uia in windows 7 if one day i can access a system with windows 7 and just use msaa on windows 7 like windows xp!
i someday tried windows 7 and i was unsatisfied of uia and wish to have msaa forever.

On 2/16/19, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
You can sort of do this (modifying the configuration file), though I
can't guarantee if that will resolve all sorts of problems you may
encounter as a result. For instance, although certain Windows Explorer
features may become more "usable", it may not solve some problems you might be having.
Also, on a personal note, I wouldn't really count on going back to
Windows XP days, or for that matter, use that as a justification for
turning off an accessibility API. As noted by at least two resident
screen reader trainers (Gene and Brian), for all practical purposes,
it would be wise to move on from XP if trying to perform certain
productivity and web browsing tasks (XP was a massive target of a
ransomware in 2017). Thus, personally, the request to consider turning
off UIA in favor of MSAA just because of appearance of stability under
XP is hereby denied (sorry; I do know it will come as not the answer
you are looking for, but there's nothing I and other NVDA developers can do now).
Cheers,
Joseph


-----Original Message---


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of zahra
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 8:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA

hi joseph.
i have a question about uia.
can you please teach me how to disable uia in windows 7 if one day i
decided to use windows 7 or use a computer of someone who uses windows 7?
i wish to disable uia in windows 7 and configure nvda to use msaa on
windows
7 as nvda uses msaa on windows xp.
i really need this change and i am waiting for your help, God bless you!

On 2/16/19, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,

At least to answer Robert’s question through this one: no, it won’t
be enabled by default, as NVDA developers and some testers found bugs
and regressions with UIA on.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Devin
Prater
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 5:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA



I agree, this makes reading even complex word documents as quick as
reading a mere Notepad window, making Word actually enjoyable to use.
I hope that all other Office programs start using this too.


Devin Pratersent from Gmail.





On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 6:17 AM Robert Kingett <@blindjourno
<mailto:@blindjourno> > wrote:

If this will become a much wanted method of interacting with word,
and since Microsoft will continue making better support, shouldn't
this be on by default after1901?







--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali







--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: Graphics that contain links

greg@...
 

Brian,

Here's an example:  http://www.photographyoptions.net/images/degray/tour.html.  When you land on the page, the up and down arrows should enable you to navigate up and down a combobox menu.  If you select the "Visitor Center" option you will be at the first of a series of 10 or so panoramic images of the Visitor Center.  There is a youtube link in the first "Visitor Center" panorama. Is there a way to find it with NVDA? I have a tooltip associated with each of the 10 panoramas, but forgetting the youtube link inside the first one, I can't figure out if it there is a keystroke scheme to move through the 10 panoramas, and then, back to the combobox menu.
--
Greg Hosler

www.photographyoptions.com

Greg@...

865-774-9755


Re: CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION

 

Actually, I always found it too strange that this option was called "gestures", simply because, for me,  it means what it would mean out of the computer/programming world.
That is, a gesture is a gesture, isn't it? So I'm thinking, well here we should have the touch commands, why are the keyboard ones here as well?
And I'm into geeky stuff, sometimes dare myself programming some small things. I hope I'm not the only one geek with this understanding of things!

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter

Em 17/02/2019 06:37, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io escreveu:

I think the issue though is when you see the word Gesture, you may not understand it as anything but a physical motion, ie making a rude sign or whatever, Its not universally known by this name for interaction with anything but touch sscreens based on my unscientific  study of half a dozen blind computer users!

A headinglike  keyboard, mouse and touch gestures for NVDA might explain it better.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Westerland" <iwesterl@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION




Another way around the issue might be to define what the word means in
context so "gesture" could be used within the contextual definition.
Just a thought.


Ian Westerland





On 2/16/2019 10:51 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Yes we need a whole new word or phrase.
How about user input schemes or something like that?
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Bartholomew" <rlbart53@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 10:16 AM
Subject: [nvda] CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION


Hi,

The underlying explanation of what input gestures are is excellent and
understandable; however, for me, the issue isn't semantics per se but if the
top-level description isn't immediately obvious to the end-user, it has
failed in some way. In this case, the word gesture implies touch screens
and, so, discouraged me from finding the time to delve into an area which I
thought wasn't relevant to me. A personal failing I admit but we all have
demands upon our time so if we can weed out what we think are unnecessary
diversions, it's often the pragmatic way to go!

I accept that this whole area is a minefield as you can please some of the
people, some of the time, etc, etc, etc!

Good luck!

Richard Bartholomew




















Re: Captcha solving services and NVDA

Simone Dal Maso
 

hello,
anticaptcha have a little problem, that the installation is not user friendly.
Google Chrome removed the extensions from its store, so the unique way is installing manually, as described in the website.
Anyway, it is a good idea and thanks for having reported it.

Buster instead is an extension that works only if captcha has some accessibility methods provided by the captcha system. It works only for example if there is the audio challenge.
So, at 90% of the time it is an unuseful extension...

Il 16/02/2019 04:16, David Goldfield ha scritto:
Bianka and others,
While I haven't used these yet, as I've only been made aware of them today, I'll pass on two captcha solvers to you.
One of them is called Buster. <https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/buster-captcha-solver-for/mpbjkejclgfgadiemmefgebjfooflfhl?hl=en>
The other is called anti-Captcha Solver. <https://antcpt.com/eng/home.html>
Again, I haven't had a chance to try them out but I hope to do so shortly. I'm also planning to add a page to my Web site listening current as well as discontinued captcha solvers as I think such a service is needed.
David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com
On 2/15/2019 4:58 AM, Bianka Brankovic wrote:
Hello all,

as Webvisum, at least to my knowledge, has been discontinued, I am wondering if there are affordable captcha solving services which are accessible with NVDA?

Anny input on this is highly appreciated.

Thanks and kind regards,

Bianka




Re: Graphics that contain links

Peter Beasley
 

                                It is a petition site called 38 degrees. It used to be ok but for the last cuple of months or so, when you go to the link to sign the petitiom it says graphic wrecked angle contains links.,

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: 15 February 2019 12:25
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Graphics that contain links

 

Can you give an example of a site?  How does NVdA read these links.  What should people look for when looking at the page?

 

It is important to give a page, if possible, when asking about an accessibility problem where a page doesn't work as expected.

 

Gene

----- Original message -----

Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 5:00 AM

Subject: [nvda] Graphics that contain links

 

A number of sites are now using graphics that  contain links. How do you activate these links using NVDA               ?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 


Re: Using PCloud with NVDA

john s
 

Trix, you should be able to do it from Windows Explorer. Just navigate to your PCloud directory.

At 12:28 PM 2/16/2019, Rich DeSteno, wrote:
Is anyone using PCloud with NVDA? I want to know the best way to save and delete files in PCloud with NVDA.

--
Rich De Steno


John


Re: Accessibility problems with Medium.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I take it this is the text of a personal email you sent to the site?
Unfortunately so many sights simply do not get it, shall we say, it will be interesting to see if they do. My guess is that somebody in control at the site sees this as niche and not the discrimination others see it ass.

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Kingett" <@blindjourno>
To: <chris@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 2:46 PM
Subject: [nvda] Accessibility problems with Medium.


Hi Chris, I'm contacting you because I've read that you are the IT
contact for the Medium site. If you are not the right person I should be
emailing, let me know who the correct person is.

I'm a totally blind user who is also making some money through the
Medium partner program. As it stands, there are a lot of easily fixable
accessibility issues that are preventing me from publishing on the site
fully. I've been consistently bringing desktop accessibility issues to
your attention but have heard no progress or updates about it after one
accessibility improvement made to the IOS application some months ago.
I’d like to point out the various issues I have on the desktop. If you
fix these, your site will be far more accessible for everyone.

1. Forms are not labeled. This happens all across the site. Edit fields
are not labeled and don't have their title attribute associated with
the field name. This is a consistent problem, especially when trying
to create a publication. Because of this, your electronic W9 form is
completely inaccessible. I had to get sighted assistance to fill it
out, per your requirements to keep earning money through the program.
2. Keyboard focus isn't consistent. For a screen reader user, editing
and writing stories is extremely challenging because keyboard focus
and keyboard controls aren't always persistent. Many controls on
your site can't be accessed via the keyboard, such as the genre
selection when creating a publication. There's too many to list, but
very few buttons and controls can be accessed via the keyboard.
3. Dialog boxes are not accessible to screen readers. Focus isn't drawn
to the dialog boxes and leaves screen readers stuck, unable to even
opt into the medium partner program when editing a story. This
happens all across the site.
4. The main editor isn't keyboard accessible. To a screen reader user,
the compose a story window has two multiline edit fields that are
not labeled. The second edit field, however, is a dud, and does not
even show up visually on the site, so a screen reader user could be
typing in a phantom edit field and publish a blank story.
5. No alt text option. Give writers the option to add alt text to their
images. At the moment, this function doesn't exist on your site.

I look forward to hearing how and when you will address these
accessibility issues that have been persistent for more than a year. I’d
be more than happy to do a zoom session with you so we can talk about
these in more depth and give you a live demonstration.




Re: Can we pass graphics while navigating web pages using NVDA?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Also of course some browsers can hide pictures as well.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris via Groups.Io" <chrismedley=btinternet.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can we pass graphics while navigating web pages using NVDA?


Maybe the text nav add-on is what you are looking for

Check it out at: https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/textnav.en.html


From: Dang Manh Cuong
Sent: 16 February 2019 11:46
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Can we pass graphics while navigating web pages using NVDA?

To all members
Does NVDA has feature to ignore graphic while navigating web page, and if it has, now to enable it?
A friend asked me this, and he shared him thought that sometimes he doesn't want to see graphics in article he reading, and he wonder if we could add this to NVDA if it doesn't exist. I can also create a tiket for this if noone did before.
Any help would be appreciated.
Cuong
----------------
Dang Manh Cuong
The Assistive technology specialist
Sao Mai Vocational and assistive center for the blind
52/22 Huynh Thien Loc St., Hoa Thanh ward, Tan Phu dist., HCM, Vietnam.
Tel: +8428 7302-4488
E-mail: info@...; tech@...
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/saomaicenterfortheblind
Website: http://www.trungtamsaomai.org; http://www.saomaicenter.org
Mobile / Viber / WhatsApp / Zalo: +84 902-572-300
E-mail: @cuongdang; @dangmanhcuong
Skype name: dangmanhcuong
facebook: http://facebook.com/dangmanhcuong
Twitter: @ManhCuongTech
NVDA Certified Expert: https://certification.nvaccess.org/


Re: CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes this is exactly why programmers should not write manuals. They tend to adopt words and phrases like Carat and Gesture as shorthand but nobody out in the world has the slightest idea of what they mean.

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <@britechguy>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION


On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 06:54 AM, Ian Westerland wrote:


Another way around the issue might be to define what the word means in
context so "gesture" could be used within the contextual definition. Just
a thought.
Ian,

Just because I have been in this situation more than once before, I have to tell you that this idea will either not work at all or not work well.

People do not tend to read documentation cover to cover nor in order, and that actually makes perfect sense. We seek out sections either via the index, table of contents, or searching that appear to relate directly to the issue we're trying to solve or the thing we're trying to learn about.

Gesture is an utterly unclear and inappropriate term for a command. Others have stated exactly why, especially for your typical reader of English. If one has to explain the basic concept of command then something's very, very wrong with the terminology being used and you can be sure that many people will miss the explanation for the reason I noted above.

The ability to directly apprehend meaning, with the bare minimum of additional explanation, is critical in technical documentation. Mind you, there are obviously times when "the bare minimum" will be far from bare or minimal, but this isn't one of those.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back


Re: CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think the issue though is when you see the word Gesture, you may not understand it as anything but a physical motion, ie making a rude sign or whatever, Its not universally known by this name for interaction with anything but touch sscreens based on my unscientific study of half a dozen blind computer users!

A headinglike keyboard, mouse and touch gestures for NVDA might explain it better.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Westerland" <iwesterl@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION




Another way around the issue might be to define what the word means in
context so "gesture" could be used within the contextual definition.
Just a thought.


Ian Westerland





On 2/16/2019 10:51 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Yes we need a whole new word or phrase.
How about user input schemes or something like that?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Bartholomew" <rlbart53@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 10:16 AM
Subject: [nvda] CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION


Hi,

The underlying explanation of what input gestures are is excellent and
understandable; however, for me, the issue isn't semantics per se but if the
top-level description isn't immediately obvious to the end-user, it has
failed in some way. In this case, the word gesture implies touch screens
and, so, discouraged me from finding the time to delve into an area which I
thought wasn't relevant to me. A personal failing I admit but we all have
demands upon our time so if we can weed out what we think are unnecessary
diversions, it's often the pragmatic way to go!

I accept that this whole area is a minefield as you can please some of the
people, some of the time, etc, etc, etc!

Good luck!

Richard Bartholomew









Re: Using Office Products with UIA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

To be honest as a 7 user, I use it in the default state and although there are a few times where its sluggish, one can work around it, and the extra access it does give is better than using a stripped back go faster just msaa really.

Its kind of what you can get running a portable version of nvda. The real problems will arrive if you go to 10, though as the old accessibility api is not used a lot there and hence portable nvda is less effective at a lot of stuff.


I'd go to 10 tomorrow if it was not a complete change of OS every six months.
Brian

bglists@...
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Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2019 5:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA


hi.
thanks for replying me.
how can i modify configuration file?
i wish to turn off uia in windows 7 if one day i can access a system
with windows 7 and just use msaa on windows 7 like windows xp!
i someday tried windows 7 and i was unsatisfied of uia and wish to
have msaa forever.

On 2/16/19, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
You can sort of do this (modifying the configuration file), though I can't
guarantee if that will resolve all sorts of problems you may encounter as a
result. For instance, although certain Windows Explorer features may become
more "usable", it may not solve some problems you might be having.
Also, on a personal note, I wouldn't really count on going back to Windows
XP days, or for that matter, use that as a justification for turning off an
accessibility API. As noted by at least two resident screen reader trainers
(Gene and Brian), for all practical purposes, it would be wise to move on
from XP if trying to perform certain productivity and web browsing tasks (XP
was a massive target of a ransomware in 2017). Thus, personally, the request
to consider turning off UIA in favor of MSAA just because of appearance of
stability under XP is hereby denied (sorry; I do know it will come as not
the answer you are looking for, but there's nothing I and other NVDA
developers can do now).
Cheers,
Joseph


-----Original Message---


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of zahra
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 8:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA

hi joseph.
i have a question about uia.
can you please teach me how to disable uia in windows 7 if one day i decided
to use windows 7 or use a computer of someone who uses windows 7?
i wish to disable uia in windows 7 and configure nvda to use msaa on windows
7 as nvda uses msaa on windows xp.
i really need this change and i am waiting for your help, God bless you!

On 2/16/19, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,

At least to answer Robert’s question through this one: no, it won’t be
enabled by default, as NVDA developers and some testers found bugs and
regressions with UIA on.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Devin
Prater
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 5:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA



I agree, this makes reading even complex word documents as quick as
reading a mere Notepad window, making Word actually enjoyable to use.
I hope that all other Office programs start using this too.


Devin Pratersent from Gmail.





On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 6:17 AM Robert Kingett <@blindjourno
<mailto:@blindjourno> > wrote:

If this will become a much wanted method of interacting with word, and
since Microsoft will continue making better support, shouldn't this be
on by default after1901?







--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali







--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Reading printed landscape sheet

farhan israk
 

I have a printed sheet which printed in landscape mode. How to read it?


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

 

Thanks :)
I got it perfectly.

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter

Em 16/02/2019 16:29, Sarah k Alawami escreveu:

In the us we have a grade scale of a, b, c, d, and f.

A: 100 to 90
b: 89 to 80.
c: 79 to 70
:d: 69 to 60:
f: 50 and below, to 0.

F is a failing grade in the schools here, and when we evaluate ourselves often times we give ourselves failing grades, I do all the time when I evaluate my game play for a tournament, a document I've written, a tech manual I wrote etc.

On 16 Feb 2019, at 0:29, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:

Guys I know I'm gonna be too stupid asking something like that and that hasn't anything to do with the matter now.
However, please, what it means "to get an F" in Joseph Lee's message?
Just gave it a google and found nothing, so...

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter

Em 16/02/2019 04:41, Shaun Everiss escreveu:

You know, explaining what we do depends on what we know.

As a computer geek I find it natural to go flat tack and explain things in technical terms, sometimes I forget to translate back to normal understandable language and find it hard to do so at times.



On 16/02/2019 6:51 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Ah, I think I see where this is going.

So if I’m getting this right, I got an F in explaining the whole thing. This is good news, as it is a validation of a long-standing issue I had in regards to NVDA’s own documentation set: needs major overhaul (one of the reasons for creating my audio tutorials in the first place), and the approach we as developers take to explain how things work isn’t working. As a person who is serious about documentation, I take it as a personal failure.

How about this analogy: think of gestures as roads you take to arrive at a certain location. Suppose you wish to go from point A to point B. You can either walk, drive, or fly. It doesn’t matter how you do it as long as you get to your destination. In the same way, when doing a command, it doesn’t matter how you do it – either from the keyboard, a touch gesture, and what not, as long as you get something from NVDA. Adding, removing, or reassigning gestures (or commands) can be akin to adding new roads, getting around an obstruction, or closing off the airspace around the route.

The things listed in Input Gestures dialog can be thought of as follows:

  • Categories: all sorts of things you can do with NVDA, categorized into different types of tasks.
  • Command descriptions: what NVDA can do, or in case of the analogy above, your destination.
  • Gesture (or command) itself: ways of performing that command, or using the analogy above, modes of travel.

 

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 9:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Hi Joseph,
You are probably right that this should be a separate thread. However, I just want to point out that your whole explanation about JawsScripps etc. is he relevant to the average user who does not really care about programming, scripting, etc. The average user wants to use the screen reader and is not interested in all the stuff that you talked about in your last message. So when you design an interface, you need to have the average user in mind. That is the person who wants to do a task with the computer, not the geek, not the techie, and not the programmer.  Do you honestly think that the hundreds of millions of computer users throughout the world, that is the cited users, would be using computers if they had to deal with this crap? The answer is no. That’s why they invented the graphic user interface. It’s easy for sighted people. What blind programmers and others who want to make screen readers need to do is make the screen reader interface as friendly as possible for the average non-techie person.
and that means using plain language where ever possible, even if it isn’t nice and elegant.g

Mary

 


On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:28 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

I think we should devote a separate thread for it, but to give you a short answer:

Those of you coming from JAWS scripting world might be familiar with the terms “script” and “function”. They are essentially the same: both perform something which can be called upon from other places. The crucial difference is how it is invoked: a script is a function with a piece of input attached.

In the same way, NVDA code can define functions (they are really Python functions). Just like JAWS scripts, the one difference between a function and a script is how you invoke it: you need a piece of input to invoke a script (basically a specially tagged function), which can call other functions, run other scripts, and even kill NVDA (if you want, but don’t try that at home). As long as any kind of command is assigned to a script (keyboard command, a touchscreen gesture, a braille display hardware button, etc.), NVDA will let you perform something. This is why you can assign touch commands to keyboard commands and vice versa, because NVDA do let you assign (technically called “binding”) all sorts of input mechanism for a command (for instance, just as you can use keyboard to perform object navigation routines, a set of touch swipes has been defined to perform object navigation; in fact, these commands call the same routine).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 9:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Good idea. There is probably some programming thing that gets in the way. I hope not though, because it makes very much sense.



On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:14 PM, Richard Wells <richwels@...> wrote:

Why couldn't they be in different preference categories? Braille for Braille, Keyboard for Keyboard, Gestures for Touch screens and Voice control for Voice control?

On 2/15/2019 6:38 PM, Gene wrote:

The problem is, what should this array of ways of input be called?  Maybe input commands, which would cover everything.  This is just one more example of the decline of English.  Apps and applications, two different things, are used increasingly interchangeably.  the language in general is becoming less precise and accurate and this is just one area.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Vogel

Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 6:15 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Input gestures are more abstract

Which is precisely the problem.  Callin something that is intimately familiar to the typical end user, and when it's currently the only method (regardless of keyboard being used), something "more abstract" is not the way to go. 

The folks at NV Access are far from the only software developers to go this route.   Almost every time it's the route taken it makes things more opaque to the target demographic, which is why it should be avoided in the first place.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 




Re: Using Office Products with UIA

 

Hi,
Before I show you how to do it, I'm going to warn you that, once UIA is turned off, you may experience oddities. If you feel that NVDA is acting odd for some reason, and if it turns out turning off UIA is to blame, then you MUST turn UIA on and NEVER, EVER turn off UIA again (and if you do then ask for instructions on how to turn off UIA, then I will definitely say, "sorry, I gave you warnings, but perhaps your heart didn't see it coming").
To toggle UIA support:
1. Press Control+NVDA+Z to open Python Console.
2. Type the following as exactly as I show you:

import config
config.conf["UIA"]["enabled"] = False

3. Press Enter, then press Escape to close, then restart NVDA.
4. To enable UIA, repeat the above steps, but replace "False" with "True".

The above procedure may produce side effects, such as oddities, NVDA announcing extra things or not announcing things as it should and so on. The above procedure should NEVER be attempted on Windows 8 and later because NVDA relies on UIA for crucial tasks such as announcing Start search suggestions, reading toast notifications, and for Windows 10, making your lives easier when using various Windows 10 apps (including current iteration of Microsoft Edge). You are warned.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of zahra
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 9:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA

hi.
thanks for replying me.
how can i modify configuration file?
i wish to turn off uia in windows 7 if one day i can access a system with windows 7 and just use msaa on windows 7 like windows xp!
i someday tried windows 7 and i was unsatisfied of uia and wish to have msaa forever.

On 2/16/19, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
You can sort of do this (modifying the configuration file), though I
can't guarantee if that will resolve all sorts of problems you may
encounter as a result. For instance, although certain Windows Explorer
features may become more "usable", it may not solve some problems you might be having.
Also, on a personal note, I wouldn't really count on going back to
Windows XP days, or for that matter, use that as a justification for
turning off an accessibility API. As noted by at least two resident
screen reader trainers (Gene and Brian), for all practical purposes,
it would be wise to move on from XP if trying to perform certain
productivity and web browsing tasks (XP was a massive target of a
ransomware in 2017). Thus, personally, the request to consider turning
off UIA in favor of MSAA just because of appearance of stability under
XP is hereby denied (sorry; I do know it will come as not the answer
you are looking for, but there's nothing I and other NVDA developers can do now).
Cheers,
Joseph


-----Original Message---


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of zahra
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 8:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA

hi joseph.
i have a question about uia.
can you please teach me how to disable uia in windows 7 if one day i
decided to use windows 7 or use a computer of someone who uses windows 7?
i wish to disable uia in windows 7 and configure nvda to use msaa on
windows
7 as nvda uses msaa on windows xp.
i really need this change and i am waiting for your help, God bless you!

On 2/16/19, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,

At least to answer Robert’s question through this one: no, it won’t
be enabled by default, as NVDA developers and some testers found bugs
and regressions with UIA on.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Devin
Prater
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 5:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA



I agree, this makes reading even complex word documents as quick as
reading a mere Notepad window, making Word actually enjoyable to use.
I hope that all other Office programs start using this too.


Devin Pratersent from Gmail.





On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 6:17 AM Robert Kingett <@blindjourno
<mailto:@blindjourno> > wrote:

If this will become a much wanted method of interacting with word,
and since Microsoft will continue making better support, shouldn't
this be on by default after1901?







--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali







--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: Using Office Products with UIA

Gene
 

Before you pursue the matter further, what benefit do you think you will get?  And you don't know what benefits you will lose.  I haven't seen any disadvantages that amount to anything in Windows 7.  I get a little slower echoing of titles when I move up or down in the files list in Windows Explorer or the desktop.  My solution is to hold control as I move.  When I get to something I want to open, I release control, down arrow once, up arrow once to the item, then press enter.  Holding control while moving keeps files from being selected as you move to them.  That solves the slow echo problem. 
 
If you want to turn it off because you have heard this or that complaint, such complaints may not be general problems.  you shouldn't have preconceptions based on such poor, perhaps meaningless, in terms of generalization, evidence.  And, as I said, you don't know what benefits you may not get by turning it off.
 
Don't let your XP bias lead you toward jumping to conclucions about Windows 7.  It is a popular version of Windows among blind users. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: zahra
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA

hi.
thanks for replying me.
how can i modify configuration file?
i wish to turn off uia in windows 7 if one day i can access a system
with windows 7 and just use msaa on windows 7 like windows xp!
i someday tried windows 7 and i was unsatisfied of uia and wish to
have msaa forever.

On 2/16/19, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:
> Hi,
> You can sort of do this (modifying the configuration file), though I can't
> guarantee if that will resolve all sorts of problems you may encounter as a
> result. For instance, although certain Windows Explorer features may become
> more "usable", it may not solve some problems you might be having.
> Also, on a personal note, I wouldn't really count on going back to Windows
> XP days, or for that matter, use that as a justification for turning off an
> accessibility API. As noted by at least two resident screen reader trainers
> (Gene and Brian), for all practical purposes, it would be wise to move on
> from XP if trying to perform certain productivity and web browsing tasks (XP
> was a massive target of a ransomware in 2017). Thus, personally, the request
> to consider turning off UIA in favor of MSAA just because of appearance of
> stability under XP is hereby denied (sorry; I do know it will come as not
> the answer you are looking for, but there's nothing I and other NVDA
> developers can do now).
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
>
> -----Original Message---
>
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of zahra
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 8:34 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA
>
> hi joseph.
> i have a question about uia.
> can you please teach me how to disable uia in windows 7 if one day i decided
> to use windows 7 or use a computer of someone who uses windows 7?
> i wish to disable uia in windows 7 and configure nvda to use msaa on windows
> 7 as nvda uses msaa on windows xp.
> i really need this change and i am waiting for your help, God bless you!
>
> On 2/16/19, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> At least to answer Robert’s question through this one: no, it won’t be
>> enabled by default, as NVDA developers and some testers found bugs and
>> regressions with UIA on.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Devin
>> Prater
>> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 5:17 PM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree, this makes reading even complex word documents as quick as
>> reading a mere Notepad window, making Word actually enjoyable to use.
>> I hope that all other Office programs start using this too.
>>
>>
>> Devin Pratersent from Gmail.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 6:17 AM Robert Kingett <kingettr@...
>> <mailto:kingettr@...> > wrote:
>>
>> If this will become a much wanted method of interacting with word, and
>> since Microsoft will continue making better support, shouldn't this be
>> on by default after1901?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> By God,
> were I given all the seven heavens
> with all they contain
> in order that
> I may disobey God
> by depriving an ant
> from the husk of a grain of barley,
> I would not do it.
> imam ali
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali



Re: Using Office Products with UIA

 

hi.
thanks for replying me.
how can i modify configuration file?
i wish to turn off uia in windows 7 if one day i can access a system
with windows 7 and just use msaa on windows 7 like windows xp!
i someday tried windows 7 and i was unsatisfied of uia and wish to
have msaa forever.

On 2/16/19, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
You can sort of do this (modifying the configuration file), though I can't
guarantee if that will resolve all sorts of problems you may encounter as a
result. For instance, although certain Windows Explorer features may become
more "usable", it may not solve some problems you might be having.
Also, on a personal note, I wouldn't really count on going back to Windows
XP days, or for that matter, use that as a justification for turning off an
accessibility API. As noted by at least two resident screen reader trainers
(Gene and Brian), for all practical purposes, it would be wise to move on
from XP if trying to perform certain productivity and web browsing tasks (XP
was a massive target of a ransomware in 2017). Thus, personally, the request
to consider turning off UIA in favor of MSAA just because of appearance of
stability under XP is hereby denied (sorry; I do know it will come as not
the answer you are looking for, but there's nothing I and other NVDA
developers can do now).
Cheers,
Joseph


-----Original Message---


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of zahra
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 8:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA

hi joseph.
i have a question about uia.
can you please teach me how to disable uia in windows 7 if one day i decided
to use windows 7 or use a computer of someone who uses windows 7?
i wish to disable uia in windows 7 and configure nvda to use msaa on windows
7 as nvda uses msaa on windows xp.
i really need this change and i am waiting for your help, God bless you!

On 2/16/19, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,

At least to answer Robert’s question through this one: no, it won’t be
enabled by default, as NVDA developers and some testers found bugs and
regressions with UIA on.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Devin
Prater
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 5:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA



I agree, this makes reading even complex word documents as quick as
reading a mere Notepad window, making Word actually enjoyable to use.
I hope that all other Office programs start using this too.


Devin Pratersent from Gmail.





On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 6:17 AM Robert Kingett <@blindjourno
<mailto:@blindjourno> > wrote:

If this will become a much wanted method of interacting with word, and
since Microsoft will continue making better support, shouldn't this be
on by default after1901?







--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali






--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Does Rumola still exist?

 

Hey,

Does the Rumola extention still exist? I can not find it in the Chrome Webstore anymore. If Rumola no longer exists, is there another way to solve captchas as an NVDA user?

Sincerely,
Artin Dekker


Re: Using Office Products with UIA

 

Hi,
You can sort of do this (modifying the configuration file), though I can't guarantee if that will resolve all sorts of problems you may encounter as a result. For instance, although certain Windows Explorer features may become more "usable", it may not solve some problems you might be having.
Also, on a personal note, I wouldn't really count on going back to Windows XP days, or for that matter, use that as a justification for turning off an accessibility API. As noted by at least two resident screen reader trainers (Gene and Brian), for all practical purposes, it would be wise to move on from XP if trying to perform certain productivity and web browsing tasks (XP was a massive target of a ransomware in 2017). Thus, personally, the request to consider turning off UIA in favor of MSAA just because of appearance of stability under XP is hereby denied (sorry; I do know it will come as not the answer you are looking for, but there's nothing I and other NVDA developers can do now).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message---


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of zahra
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 8:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA

hi joseph.
i have a question about uia.
can you please teach me how to disable uia in windows 7 if one day i decided to use windows 7 or use a computer of someone who uses windows 7?
i wish to disable uia in windows 7 and configure nvda to use msaa on windows 7 as nvda uses msaa on windows xp.
i really need this change and i am waiting for your help, God bless you!

On 2/16/19, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,

At least to answer Robert’s question through this one: no, it won’t be
enabled by default, as NVDA developers and some testers found bugs and
regressions with UIA on.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Devin
Prater
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 5:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA



I agree, this makes reading even complex word documents as quick as
reading a mere Notepad window, making Word actually enjoyable to use.
I hope that all other Office programs start using this too.


Devin Pratersent from Gmail.





On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 6:17 AM Robert Kingett <@blindjourno
<mailto:@blindjourno> > wrote:

If this will become a much wanted method of interacting with word, and
since Microsoft will continue making better support, shouldn't this be
on by default after1901?







--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: Using Office Products with UIA

 

hi joseph.
i have a question about uia.
can you please teach me how to disable uia in windows 7 if one day i
decided to use windows 7 or use a computer of someone who uses windows
7?
i wish to disable uia in windows 7 and configure nvda to use msaa on
windows 7 as nvda uses msaa on windows xp.
i really need this change and i am waiting for your help, God bless you!

On 2/16/19, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,

At least to answer Robert’s question through this one: no, it won’t be
enabled by default, as NVDA developers and some testers found bugs and
regressions with UIA on.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 5:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA



I agree, this makes reading even complex word documents as quick as reading
a mere Notepad window, making Word actually enjoyable to use. I hope that
all other Office programs start using this too.


Devin Pratersent from Gmail.





On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 6:17 AM Robert Kingett <@blindjourno
<mailto:@blindjourno> > wrote:

If this will become a much wanted method of interacting with word, and since
Microsoft will continue making better support, shouldn't this be on by
default after1901?






--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: Using Office Products with UIA

 

Hi,

At least to answer Robert’s question through this one: no, it won’t be enabled by default, as NVDA developers and some testers found bugs and regressions with UIA on.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 5:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Office Products with UIA

 

I agree, this makes reading even complex word documents as quick as reading a mere Notepad window, making Word actually enjoyable to use. I hope that all other Office programs start using this too.

Devin Pratersent from Gmail.

 

 

On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 6:17 AM Robert Kingett <kingettr@...> wrote:

If this will become a much wanted method of interacting with word, and since Microsoft will continue making better support, shouldn't this be on by default after1901?