Date   

Re: About accessible book reading apps

Mallard <mallard@...>
 

Yes, Qread is great. I too couldn't do without it in Windows.


the only drawback with Qread is that it doesn't maintain the links in ebooks, but the Find and Document Position are excellent features, which can definitely make up for that.


I thought Qread had sort of been abandoned by its dev, but a couple of weeks ago I had the pleasant surprise of an update, so it's alive and well...


Highly recommended. Worth every penny and more.


Ciao,

Ollie


Re: Getting stuck with Firefox and NVDA and frames

Brian's Mail list account
 

Windows 7 lost sound? Do you use an external sound device like headphones in the usb or whatever?
Normally this can be sorted quuite easily from the device manager.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Arlene" <nedster66@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2019 4:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Getting stuck with Firefox and NVDA and frames


Oh no! I hope they get the bug fixed. My windows 7 lost all sound. Otherwise I would have tested Firefox with fb I use it for my foodsafe online class. I was using the latest NVDA build. Windows 7 and the latest build of Firefox. I never had that problem.
On Feb 21, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

Hi. I’m using the current Insider Build of W 10 and NVDA 2018.4.1 with FF 65.1. I’m having a problem with websites getting stuck in a frame. I.E. the Facebook mobile site. I don’t know if it’s a bug in FF 65.1 or not. Didn’t have this with V 65. Here is an example. If someone replies to a comment or whatever I hit enter on that link. When I hit H to get the heading and arrow down it seems to get stuck in a frame on the page and I can’t get out of it unless I reload the FB mobile site. I’ve noticed this on other sites too. This doesn’t happen in JAWS 2019.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10


Re: Clipspeak does not work

Brian's Mail list account
 

Yes I'm suspecting as much. It certainly used to do it in word 2007 and 13, but I went back to an older version out of expediency in the end.
However I suspect it could be some other software also interacting that gives the problem if I get time later on I'll re enable it and see if I can see anything interesting in the log that might help. If not then I'll just accept I cannot use it.
I do not intend to update the machine for at least two years so why worry!


Windows 10, annoys me, due to its new version every 6 months.
Doo you find it an issue? I have many legacy programs which are very much needed for the talking newspaper to run, so I'm loathe to upset the applecart as it were.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Clipspeak does not work


On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 04:29 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:


even old versions like Word XP show this error.
These ancient, and out of support versions, are far more likely to encounter issues with more modern code interacting with them.

Based on what has been offered so far on this topic it is virtually certain that there is something idiosyncratic about your system that is triggering this error.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back


Re: Clipspeak does not work

Brian's Mail list account
 

So you have a document in wordpad, you select t part of it, then attempt to paste it in an empty word document, and you do not get the error?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "molly the blind tech lover" <brainardmolly@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Clipspeak does not work


Hi.
Clipspeak works for me too as well 😊

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 4:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Clipspeak does not work

Hi, nope it just works, using windows10 home 64 bit.

On 21/02/2019 11:13, Clare Page wrote:
Hi!
I use ClipSpeak all the time, and have never had the error you
describe, Brian, not even in Microsoft Word. Either I'm simply lucky,
or there is some problem with your copy of Word, although I can't guess what that would be.
Do any other ClipSpeak users have the "insufficient memory" error
mentioned below?
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: jeudi 21 février 2019 10:30
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Clipspeak does not work

I thought it might have been fixed but its still not able to paste
into word

documents without the following error occurring.

There is insufficient memory. Save the document now

This seems not to care which version of Word I'm using, even old
versions like Word XP show this error.
Very odd.
I guess its a side issue due to how it checks clipboard contents.
One has to remember that pasting from say wordpad as I tried to Word
is probably dealing with both the normal and office clipboard which
may have some bearing on the problem so its back to the dumb add on
unless anyone has any fixes for the current add on.
Brian.

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Please address personal E-mail to:-
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Re: Clipspeak does not work

Brian's Mail list account
 

My Two here, but when it first appeared it used to occur on xp machines a lot.
I've not tried it on windows 10.
As you say it might be a complex interaction involving other software as well, but trying to find out which is probably going to take more time than is really needed since I can cope with the alternative.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 4:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Clipspeak does not work


How many machines have you tested on? Given the popularity of this add-on, I'm suspicious that this is a problem that isn't a general one. I don't know if others have it but I suspect that the number is small, if any. We should have heard many complaints by now if it were widespread.

Gene
----- original message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 9:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Clipspeak does not work


No this has always been the issue with word versions on windows 7 for me.


The paste does not occur, but turning off clipspeak and turning back on the
dumb routine and all is sweetness and light again.

It seems some part of Office is misreading memory somehow.

No issues in any other software. I unfortunately cannot go back to a current
word as I found it terrible to use for the usual ribbon menu reasons, so
went back.


I imagine its a memory issue of some sort though.

Don't worry, did somebody say clip contents designer does the job as well?
Might try that instead.
I think the author was aware of the issue with some installations of Word
back at the start.
Its a bit like the way word will occasionally ask if you want to save
changes when none have been made if nvda is running. That is another
unexplained thing some people get while others do not.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Clipspeak does not work


Why is it back to the dumb add-on? Does pasting occur when you hear the
error? When you hear the error, does that reliably tell you that pasting
has occurred? If so, then what difference does it make? You are still
being informed. Of course, the problem should be fixed and even more
urgently if the code is being added to the core, but you haven't indicated
that this error interferes with pasting.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 3:29 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Clipspeak does not work


I thought it might have been fixed but its still not able to paste into word
documents without the following error occurring.

There is insufficient memory. Save the document now

This seems not to care which version of Word I'm using, even old versions
like Word XP show this error.
Very odd.
I guess its a side issue due to how it checks clipboard contents. One has
to remember that pasting from say wordpad as I tried to Word is probably
dealing with both the normal and office clipboard which may have some
bearing on the problem so its back to the dumb add on unless anyone has any
fixes for the current add on.
Brian.

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


Re: Golden Cursor question

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Brian,

 

Thanks for that, I didn’t know about that particular add-on for NVDA, I’ll go grab it.

 

All the best

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 21 February 2019 18:44
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 12:32 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Neither JAWS nor NVDA really let the sighted person know where the focus is at any given moment.  So screen readers are really interpreters.

Neither does (or did, I can't recall right now if JAWS has changed this) by default.   The first thing I do if I'm working with someone using NVDA is to have them install the Focus Highlight add-on, which is absolutely fabulous in terms of not only keeping the screen and virtual cursor locations in sync, but letting you know what state NVDA is in for the object it currently has focus on (and I don't mean object navigation here - I mean appropriate to the thing it has got focus on).

JAWS added a similar feature, and I've used it, but it is not quite as sophisticated as the Focus Highlight add-on of NVDA.

As far as I'm concerned, this sort of feature should be configurable but the default configuration should be ON.   I have never noticed any difference in responsiveness when it is activated, and if an individual ever anticipates having a sighted assistant for any purpose having the screen and the screen reader track each other is absolutely, positively vital.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Read the rest of the line

 

Hey guys,
What's the command to perform such operation?
E.G I'm reading something, then I decide to spell some word in the halfway. After spelling the word, what I should press to get back NVDA reading where I stopped spelling?

P.S.: Apologize me if I haven't explained it as I should, I can try later if I don't get answers on this.
I just woke up, so... have mercy on me! LOL

--


Re: Getting stuck with Firefox and NVDA and frames

Arlene
 

Oh no! I hope they get the bug fixed.  My windows 7 lost all sound. Otherwise I would have tested Firefox with fb I use it for my foodsafe  online class.  I was using the latest NVDA build. Windows 7 and the latest build of Firefox.  I never had that problem.  


On Feb 21, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

Hi. I’m using the current Insider Build of W 10 and NVDA 2018.4.1 with FF 65.1. I’m having a problem with websites getting stuck in a frame. I.E. the Facebook mobile site. I don’t know if it’s a bug in FF 65.1 or not. Didn’t have this with V 65. Here is an example. If someone replies to a comment or whatever I hit enter on that link. When I hit H to get the heading and arrow down it seems to get stuck in a frame on the page and I can’t get out of it unless I reload the FB mobile site. I’ve noticed this on other sites too. This doesn’t happen in JAWS 2019.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: About accessible book reading apps

Kwork
 

Yes, probably my favorite purchase as a computer user. It's more than paid for itself for me over the years.

On 2/21/2019 3:54 PM, Annette Moore wrote:

I love QRead! I wouldn't be without it!

Annette

On 2/21/2019 2:39 PM, Kwork wrote:

The closest you'll get on Windows, I believe, and it's $30 right now, is QRead.

https://q-continuum.net/qread/

It can read pdf, epub, and a few other formats, and will integrate with Goodreads and Bookshare, and is developed by a blind developer for the blind. Faully NVDA accessible.

Travis

On 2/21/2019 9:24 AM, ely.r@... wrote:

Morning,

I too read largely on my iPhone and iPad, including DAISY, Epub, TXT, HTML and PDF text not simple images. I have used Voice Dream reader for years. It is inexpensive and permits bookmarking, highlighting, creating annotations and copying and pasting from text one is reading. It provides and Add feature that can take the user directly to BookShare, ?The Gutenberg project, apps like Pocket, and is included in the “Share” list in Safari.

 

I only wish there were a comparable  app for Microsoft Windows.

Rick

 

I love the convenience  

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of UMIT ERDEM Yigitoglu
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 9:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] About accessable book reading apps

 

Hello,
I know that the subject is off topic for this group, but I don't know any mailing group that it would be suitable for and I thought that discussing book reading won't hurt us. if I crowd your inbox I'm sorry. 
first of all, just to satisfy my curiosity, how do you read or listen your books usually (e.g, which platform, what programs or apps, what kind of format in) and why?
for myself:
I usually get my books from Bookshare.org and read them with apple books Because it is very easy to use and acsessible. 
Secondly, I like Apple books very much. it is pretty easy to use. However, it is very anoying not to be able to sencronize it with my computor or other divices. I would much prefer having a library that I can reach from everywhere. Adobe digital edditions seems promising at first but IOS app doesn't work with voiceover at all and it has some important accessibility issues in windows with NVDA wich I can tolerate if I could have used it in my phone effectively. do you have any recommendations for a free or cheap app that I can use in at least windows and IOS with singronisation? highlighting text and bookmarking is very important for me too.
I am really sorry about this long post but I think discussing this issue will be a stimulating discussion and is important.
Best regards
 


NVDA CodeFactory imbedded pro voices

Chris Shook
 

Hi,
WHen using Eloquence and Vocalizer expressive for NVDA, what is the difference in the imbedded pro and the imbedded high?
I know the imbedded pro is more precise in it's pronunciation and takes up less space, but is there an official difference?
Thanks
Chris


Getting stuck with Firefox and NVDA and frames

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
 

Hi. I’m using the current Insider Build of W 10 and NVDA 2018.4.1 with FF 65.1. I’m having a problem with websites getting stuck in a frame. I.E. the Facebook mobile site. I don’t know if it’s a bug in FF 65.1 or not. Didn’t have this with V 65. Here is an example. If someone replies to a comment or whatever I hit enter on that link. When I hit H to get the heading and arrow down it seems to get stuck in a frame on the page and I can’t get out of it unless I reload the FB mobile site. I’ve noticed this on other sites too. This doesn’t happen in JAWS 2019.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: About accessible book reading apps

Annette Moore
 

I love QRead! I wouldn't be without it!

Annette

On 2/21/2019 2:39 PM, Kwork wrote:

The closest you'll get on Windows, I believe, and it's $30 right now, is QRead.

https://q-continuum.net/qread/

It can read pdf, epub, and a few other formats, and will integrate with Goodreads and Bookshare, and is developed by a blind developer for the blind. Faully NVDA accessible.

Travis

On 2/21/2019 9:24 AM, ely.r@... wrote:

Morning,

I too read largely on my iPhone and iPad, including DAISY, Epub, TXT, HTML and PDF text not simple images. I have used Voice Dream reader for years. It is inexpensive and permits bookmarking, highlighting, creating annotations and copying and pasting from text one is reading. It provides and Add feature that can take the user directly to BookShare, ?The Gutenberg project, apps like Pocket, and is included in the “Share” list in Safari.

 

I only wish there were a comparable  app for Microsoft Windows.

Rick

 

I love the convenience  

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of UMIT ERDEM Yigitoglu
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 9:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] About accessable book reading apps

 

Hello,
I know that the subject is off topic for this group, but I don't know any mailing group that it would be suitable for and I thought that discussing book reading won't hurt us. if I crowd your inbox I'm sorry. 
first of all, just to satisfy my curiosity, how do you read or listen your books usually (e.g, which platform, what programs or apps, what kind of format in) and why?
for myself:
I usually get my books from Bookshare.org and read them with apple books Because it is very easy to use and acsessible. 
Secondly, I like Apple books very much. it is pretty easy to use. However, it is very anoying not to be able to sencronize it with my computor or other divices. I would much prefer having a library that I can reach from everywhere. Adobe digital edditions seems promising at first but IOS app doesn't work with voiceover at all and it has some important accessibility issues in windows with NVDA wich I can tolerate if I could have used it in my phone effectively. do you have any recommendations for a free or cheap app that I can use in at least windows and IOS with singronisation? highlighting text and bookmarking is very important for me too.
I am really sorry about this long post but I think discussing this issue will be a stimulating discussion and is important.
Best regards
 


Re: Clipspeak does not work

 

On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 04:29 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
even old versions like Word XP show this error.
These ancient, and out of support versions, are far more likely to encounter issues with more modern code interacting with them.

Based on what has been offered so far on this topic it is virtually certain that there is something idiosyncratic about your system that is triggering this error.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Clipspeak does not work

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi.
Clipspeak works for me too as well 😊

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 4:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Clipspeak does not work

Hi, nope it just works, using windows10 home 64 bit.

On 21/02/2019 11:13, Clare Page wrote:
Hi!
I use ClipSpeak all the time, and have never had the error you
describe, Brian, not even in Microsoft Word. Either I'm simply lucky,
or there is some problem with your copy of Word, although I can't guess what that would be.
Do any other ClipSpeak users have the "insufficient memory" error
mentioned below?
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: jeudi 21 février 2019 10:30
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Clipspeak does not work

I thought it might have been fixed but its still not able to paste
into word

documents without the following error occurring.

There is insufficient memory. Save the document now

This seems not to care which version of Word I'm using, even old
versions like Word XP show this error.
Very odd.
I guess its a side issue due to how it checks clipboard contents.
One has to remember that pasting from say wordpad as I tried to Word
is probably dealing with both the normal and office clipboard which
may have some bearing on the problem so its back to the dumb add on
unless anyone has any fixes for the current add on.
Brian.

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.







Re: Clipspeak does not work

Kevin Cussick
 

Hi, nope it just works, using windows10 home 64 bit.

On 21/02/2019 11:13, Clare Page wrote:
Hi!
I use ClipSpeak all the time, and have never had the error you describe,
Brian, not even in Microsoft Word. Either I'm simply lucky, or there is some
problem with your copy of Word, although I can't guess what that would be.
Do any other ClipSpeak users have the "insufficient memory" error mentioned
below?
Bye for now!
From Clare
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: jeudi 21 février 2019 10:30
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Clipspeak does not work
I thought it might have been fixed but its still not able to paste into word
documents without the following error occurring.
There is insufficient memory. Save the document now
This seems not to care which version of Word I'm using, even old versions
like Word XP show this error.
Very odd.
I guess its a side issue due to how it checks clipboard contents. One has
to remember that pasting from say wordpad as I tried to Word is probably
dealing with both the normal and office clipboard which may have some
bearing on the problem so its back to the dumb add on unless anyone has any
fixes for the current add on.
Brian.
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


Re: About accessable book reading apps

Kwork
 

And, if books are free of the drm infestation virus, I refuse to use the word protection, they seem to read better, in my experience, with both NVDA and JAWS.


On 2/21/2019 10:48 AM, Travis Siegel wrote:

Baen.com is the publisher where I've been buying/reading books since 1999.  Somewhere around the 2005 timeframe, they implemented a program that allows access to their entire collection for print impaired folks, and I got in to that when it became available, but I'd already spent more than 800 bucks buying books from them before that happened, because of their you bought it, you own it policy.  Quite the breath of fresh air from most publishers who treat everyone like a crook even before you've bought anything from them.  They mainly deal in science fiction titles, which is my favorite genre, but they do have authors that write in other genres as well.

Smashwords.com is another place I purchase drm free books, and I always download the epub format, because that allows me to unzip the books and use them in my web browser.

And, just to keep it on topic, NVDA works just fine with all publishers/formats mentioned in this message.

On 2/21/2019 12:25 PM, James AUSTIN wrote:
Hi  Travis

What company do you use? 

Thanks
James


On 21 Feb 2019, at 16:49, Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...> wrote:

the kindle app is accessible both on windows and IOS.  I do use it (quite a lot), though I don't really like it all that much, because there's no way to backup your books, and if something happens to the amazon service, or the kindle app becomes inaccessible, you're out of luck.  I much prefer to download my books and keep them on my hd, so I can back up the books to any service of my choice.  I have one company I've been getting books from for almost 20 years, and each and every one of their books are in plain html format (they have other formats, I choose the html format because it's easiest for me), and I have never once lost a book from them, even though ZI've changed computers several times, and even had severe computer crashes, and you want to know why? because I have the capability of storing my books elsewhere such as cloud storage, external drives and the like.  And I never have to worry that I won't have access to my books anymore if they go out of business, or if they can't sell particular books any longer (as happens regularly with kindle), because I already have them, and they're saved in various places, and I can always go get another copy of my books when something happens.  Amazon, kobo, audible and others don't allow this, which is why I don't like using them.

However, for the moment, kindle works fairly well, and I have the kindle unlimited service, so I read several books a month from the kindle unlimited selections, and enjoy it very much, but even the books I purchase on kindle, I know are eventually going to be inaccessible in one way or another, it's just a matter of time.  I've already lost 5 or 6 books I bought on amazon, because I couldn't back them up, and they are no longer available for download on the kindle app.

It stinks, but what can you do.

On 2/20/2019 9:52 AM, UMIT ERDEM Yigitoglu wrote:
Hello,
I know that the subject is off topic for this group, but I don't know any mailing group that it would be suitable for and I thought that discussing book reading won't hurt us. if I crowd your inbox I'm sorry. 
first of all, just to satisfy my curiosity, how do you read or listen your books usually (e.g, which platform, what programs or apps, what kind of format in) and why?
for myself:
I usually get my books from Bookshare.org and read them with apple books Because it is very easy to use and acsessible. 
Secondly, I like Apple books very much. it is pretty easy to use. However, it is very anoying not to be able to sencronize it with my computor or other divices. I would much prefer having a library that I can reach from everywhere. Adobe digital edditions seems promising at first but IOS app doesn't work with voiceover at all and it has some important accessibility issues in windows with NVDA wich I can tolerate if I could have used it in my phone effectively. do you have any recommendations for a free or cheap app that I can use in at least windows and IOS with singronisation? highlighting text and bookmarking is very important for me too.
I am really sorry about this long post but I think discussing this issue will be a stimulating discussion and is important.
Best regards
 

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: About accessible book reading apps

Kwork
 

The closest you'll get on Windows, I believe, and it's $30 right now, is QRead.

https://q-continuum.net/qread/

It can read pdf, epub, and a few other formats, and will integrate with Goodreads and Bookshare, and is developed by a blind developer for the blind. Faully NVDA accessible.

Travis

On 2/21/2019 9:24 AM, ely.r@... wrote:

Morning,

I too read largely on my iPhone and iPad, including DAISY, Epub, TXT, HTML and PDF text not simple images. I have used Voice Dream reader for years. It is inexpensive and permits bookmarking, highlighting, creating annotations and copying and pasting from text one is reading. It provides and Add feature that can take the user directly to BookShare, ?The Gutenberg project, apps like Pocket, and is included in the “Share” list in Safari.

 

I only wish there were a comparable  app for Microsoft Windows.

Rick

 

I love the convenience  

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of UMIT ERDEM Yigitoglu
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 9:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] About accessable book reading apps

 

Hello,
I know that the subject is off topic for this group, but I don't know any mailing group that it would be suitable for and I thought that discussing book reading won't hurt us. if I crowd your inbox I'm sorry. 
first of all, just to satisfy my curiosity, how do you read or listen your books usually (e.g, which platform, what programs or apps, what kind of format in) and why?
for myself:
I usually get my books from Bookshare.org and read them with apple books Because it is very easy to use and acsessible. 
Secondly, I like Apple books very much. it is pretty easy to use. However, it is very anoying not to be able to sencronize it with my computor or other divices. I would much prefer having a library that I can reach from everywhere. Adobe digital edditions seems promising at first but IOS app doesn't work with voiceover at all and it has some important accessibility issues in windows with NVDA wich I can tolerate if I could have used it in my phone effectively. do you have any recommendations for a free or cheap app that I can use in at least windows and IOS with singronisation? highlighting text and bookmarking is very important for me too.
I am really sorry about this long post but I think discussing this issue will be a stimulating discussion and is important.
Best regards
 


Re: Golden Cursor question

JM Casey
 

I really don’t know why abbreviation-expanding is a voice synthesizer specific thing, but for some reason, it is, or at least, that’s been my experience. I’m using JAWS with Eloquence at this precise moment and I think it leaves most of them alone, but Vocalizer expands everything, sometimes with weird and very undesirable results.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: February 21, 2019 11:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

It's always been my opinion that it's a screen reader's job to read the screen, it's my job to interpret what the screen reader tells me is there.  That means, if there's a graphic, the screen reader should tell me it's there, if there's an icon, the screen reader should tell me it's there.  The screen reader should read exactly what's there, and nothing else.  I can't tell you how many hours of productivity time I've lost from stupid little things like my screen reader telling me something was on the screen, when it wasn't actually there.  For example, the voiceover screen reader (and I think NVDA does as well) says volume, regardless of whether the entire word is there or not.  You know, sometimes, vol by itself does not mean volume.  This is of course a minor example of the screen reader saying something that isn't there, but you get the idea.  If the screen says v o l, then the screen reader should say v o l, not volume.  I understand that most folks do not agree with me on this, but it irks the hell out of me when screen readers say things that aren't there, especially when trying to find sorted file lists, One time I had magazine issues that were named differently from the publisher, depending on what year it was published.  I spent a good 10 minutes once trying to figure out why volume 2 issue 1 was out of order, and it turns out the reason was because the screen reader was reading vol as volume, but the publisher didn't spell out volume, only put the 3 letters vol, which changed the sorting order of that particular issue, since the rest of them had volume actually spelled out.  Odd, but there it is.  That was 10 minutes that didn't need to be wasted, because if the screen reader had just read what was on the screen, it would have been immediately apparent what the problem was, and it could have been easily corrected.

This is the kind of thing I mean when I say I've lost hours of productivity due to stupid little things that the screen reader read that didn't exist.

Although I reported it, and it (eventually) got fixed, at one point, when beta testing voiceover on the mac, the screen reader said the dinosaur Stegosaurus as Saint Ego Soars.  Again, a case of not reading what's on the screen, and one that should not have even occurred based on pronunciation rules built in to the screen reader, but these are the kinds of things that happen when your screen readers try to interpret things for you.  I don't like it, and I think it's a waste of time.  It wastes the user's time, and it wastes the developer's time, because they have to put in all the rules that create the speaking rules.  Just leave it alone, and let the damned thing read what's present, let me interpret what it all means.

On 2/20/2019 7:44 AM, Gene wrote:

That's two different questions.  changing the format may be a problem at times, when dealing with sighted people as you say.  but the solution isn't to have the screen-reader not do what it does.  the solution is to teach blind people to find what they are looking for on the page without being reliant on sighted people's instructions.  for example, if the sighted person tells the person that add to cart is in the middle of the page, a little up from the center, an efficient way for a blind person to find it is to disregard the description.  Go to the top of the page and use the screen-reader's find command to search for add to cart or for cart or whatever you want that is expected to find the thing efficiently if the search can be done efficiently.

 

I may find it interesting when a wwell-intentioned sighted person tells me where he/she sees something on the screen.  I don't use the description to find the item.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 6:27 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

I disagree.  Changing the layout is interpreting of course it is.  It’s saying well here’s the info, in the format we think is right, not in the visual format.

 

Whether you like it or not, that is interpreting and becomes sometimes, a problem when interacting with sighted people.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 20 February 2019 10:13
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

Changing the layout isn't interpreting.  Interpreting is when you do something like describe something in the screen-reader's own words.  But this doesn't change what is read.  It is changing the layout to make reading logical for blind people.  There is nothing wrong with this.  it has been done with great success since MSAA was introduced in the late Nineties for reading web pages efficiently.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 2:57 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

Of course they are interpreting.  It reads the screen, but UIA changes the perceived layout of the screen.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 19 February 2019 18:38
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

What you are complaining about isn't screen interpreting.  it is a decision about what information is included and how you can move through it.  You may disagree with such decisions, but they aren't screen interpreting. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2019 12:30 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

Hi,

 

OK, incorrect in so much that you can move the mouse, but only by routing it.

 

Window-Eyes could not only move by clip, but by graphic as well, this is really powerful.

 

If you told me to click on the third graphic from the top left on the screen, only Window-Eyes would allow me to do this.

 

Whatever happened to screen reading, as opposed to screen interpreting?  Don’t even get me started.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 19 February 2019 16:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

I know that Window-eyes and JAWS have ways of moving the mouse such as by pixels and in the case of Window-eyes, in some other way that I don't recall now, sort of by structure.  I remembered the term while reviewing my message.  it is by clip, as Window-eyes called it.  But both also allow for moving the mouse around the screen as you do in NVDA.  The difference is that in NVDA, you move the review position, then route the mouse to where you stop the review navigator. 

 

In JAWS, you could move the mouse to the word click.  In NVDA, you would move the review navigator to the word click, then route the mouse.  the mouse ends up in the same place.  I'm simply saying that your statement that the mouse can't be moved from the keyboard in NVDA is factually, not a matter of opinion, not correct.  I am not disagreeing that JAWS and
Window-eyes allow for different, more precise movements.  I'm also not arguing that the Golden Cursor add-on is necessary in NVDA to move the mouse in finer and more varied ways.  But your statement is factually incorrect. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2019 9:56 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

Hi Jean,

 

But again, although you answered my question, it just proves to me that I couldn’t find what I wanted, because it is not there, that is moving the mouse using the keyboard.  This is there, if you download Golden Cursor, but I’ve had this in Window-Eyes for years, so I couldn’t imagine managing without it now.  It even exists in JAWS.  Even mouse search doesn’t currently exist in NVDA, so to me, this isn’t screen reading at its best at the moment.  That’s only to me, remember, just one guy who is an advanced screen reader user, and in that respect, as I’ve always said, NVDA, isn’t there yet.  I wish it would be.

 

Another example of this problem is the Izotope plug in installer.  NVDA doesn’t see the screen at all, nothing is read, so you have to OCR it.  When I install with JAWS, it sees the screen, and I can move the mouse to the Next button, but I can’t click it by tabbing nor object naving to it, because NVDA simply doesn’t see the screen, unless I OCR it.  JAWS sees it out of the box.  This is why I still maintain that video hooking is a necessary evil.

 

I know now that many programs use UIA now, so it’s less important, but the ability to manipulate the mouse via the keyboard, is still much needed when using custom apps.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 18 February 2019 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

In the following response, I shall give desktop layout commands.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know those commands for what we are discussing.

 

There aren't specifically mouse movement keys such as in JAWS.  Read the review section of the manual or the relevant parts.  5.5 is a relevant section.  I'm not sure if there are any others.  You will see such commands as num[pad 9, move to next line, numpad 8, read current line, numpad 7 move to and read previous line.  These are review keys and don't affect the application, they review the screen.  I'm talking about what they do in screen review mode.  They have similar functions when in object navigation but they apply to the object that has focus.

 

To move the mouse to the review position, use the command numpad insert numpad slash.  To left click the mouse, use numpad slash. To right click, use numpad Times, which I believe is also the asterisk.  It's immediately to the right of numpad slash.  

 

If you can't find how to do something in NVDA, it is not good methodology or procedure to assume that it can't be done.  Asking here may provide information about how to do it or of an add-on that does.

 

Gene  

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2019 4:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

Hello Jean,

 

So what are the mouse movement keys via the keyboard then?  I’m sorry I can’t find them.

 

Thanks.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 18 February 2019 08:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

You can move the mouse with the keyboard now.  You can't move it as precisely.  I don't have an opinion about whether the Golden Cursor features should be incorporated into the source code.  But your implication that the mouse can't be moved without the Golden Cursor is not correct.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2019 2:27 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

Jean,

 

I think the whole Golden Cursor thing should be in NVDA to be honest.  The ability to move the mouse using the keyboard has been in screen readers, since the invention of Windows.

 

Supernova has it, System Access has it, JAWS has it, Window-Eyes was best at it, and so on.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 17 February 2019 20:08
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

The search feature should, I think, be in NVDA, not in the Golden Cursor. This is important funcionality and is too important to depend on a user downloading an add-on to have it available.

 

Gene 

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2019 1:58 PM

Subject: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

Hi,

 

In my efforts to find out if Golden Cursor is as good as the mouse with JAWS, I’d say not quite.  Let me explain.

 

I just downloaded it, and there seems to be no way to search for a string of text within GC and have the mouse land on that text, so you can just click it, without routing, saving positions, etc.

 

Could this possibly be added?  A Mouse Search in NVDA?  I use Search in JAWS cursor all the time, and it moves the mouse to where I want it.

 

Or am I really stupid and missing it?

 

Someone suggested that GC does more than the JAWS cursor, but I don’t really see that.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

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Re: CTRL-C doesn't work for copying text when NVDA is on

 

While it's very handy to be able to cut a ton of text to the clipboard, and I have on occasion, the idea of having multi-page document length clipboard contents read back from the clipboard would be maddening.

I agree with Chris Mullins that if one is planning to work with really large blocks of text it makes a lot more sense to open either Notepad instances, if formatting need not be preserved, just text, or Word (or whatever word processor you use) instances if there's formatting that must be preserved.   It not only allows for skimming but jumping from beginning of a large chunk to the end, very quickly, to ensure you have what you thought you had.  If you've got to do this for several non-contiguous chunks it also makes it easier to get them all, check them all, then move on to pasting them in elsewhere, knowing you have exactly what you want.

Tools to task, and all that . . .
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Re: CTRL-C doesn't work for copying text when NVDA is on

Chris Mullins
 

Hi
When you have a large amount of text on the clipboard, if it could speak it back to you , it will only relay it serially, which means you have to listen to it from the beginning each time. Why not open a scratch notepad file, paste in the clipboard contents, then you can at least skim through wat is there before you paste into your target document. Remember, pasting does not remove the clipboard contents.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of zahra
Sent: 21 February 2019 17:13
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] CTRL-C doesn't work for copying text when NVDA is on

unfortunately nvda does not announce the content which i copied if its
more than 1000 or 1024 characters.

On 2/21/19, Roger Stewart <paganus2@...> wrote:
This is already built into nvda. Just use nvda key plus C and if there
is actually anything copied into the clipboard, it will be spoken.
Roger











On 2/21/2019 2:58 AM, zahra wrote:
hi gene.
is there any solution that i can set nvda to read clipboard regardless
of is the text is long or not?
i believe nvda cant read more than 1000 or 1024 characters, but i wish
to have a solution that nvda can reads anything in the clipboard, even
i want to select and copy a large book with hundreds of pages.
in this case, i can simply overcome the problem of not supporting
sayAll in libreoffice.
i can copy and peist my document in firefox or there is one option in
libreoffice that i can temporarily open my document and read in
firefox which has supporting for sayAll, but i need openning two
programs at the same time, one libreoffice and one another program,
firefox, which cause more system usage and power consumpsion.
thanks for any of your help, God bless you!

On 2/20/19, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
The way to do it is to incorporate the add-on that announces this into
the
source of the program or modify it and place it in source. or if
desired,
though it is probably redeveloping the weel, developing the ability
independently in the screen-reader. A lot of users will never know
about
the add-on.

The designers and developers refuse to do so, last I knew, because of
the
claim, incorrect, that the announcement of when text is copied, cut, or
pasted, cannot be reliably known for screen-readers. I have stated
before,
from years of use with JAWS and I know that System Access does as well,
that
this can be accurately done. The add-on, is usually accurate as well.
I'm
not sure if it is every single time but I have never or almost never seen
an
error after something like eight months or more of regular use.

Perhaps others verifying this would finally convince developers that
this
can be accurately done. This is an important ability and should be
added
yesterday..
From: Jackie
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 11:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] CTRL-C doesn't work for copying text when NVDA is on


Well, weirdly enough, it does do this in Firefox, but not in Word,
Notepad, etc. They really should make that consistent, & they should
make it suchvvv that announcement could be toggled on/off as desired.

On 2/20/19, marcio via Groups.Io <marcinhorj21@...>
wrote:
I can confirm that, at least without an add-on to do it, NVDA doesn't
announce anything when we perform such operations (cut, copy, paste
etc.).
What did you do to have these announcements?

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter <https://twitter.com/firirinfonfon>

Em 20/02/2019 14:13, Jackie escreveu:
It does announce "copy to clipboard".

On 2/20/19, Roger Stewart <paganus2@...> wrote:
I've been using NVDA since 2012 and never had this problem. However,
NVDA will not announce anything like "copied to clipboard" so you
might
not think anything has happened, but it does still work normally.
When
you paste the text, you'll find it all worked.
Roger











On 2/20/2019 10:54 AM, Ryan Boudwin wrote:
Hey everyone,

I recently swapped from JAWS to NVDA because it seems to work better
for me for certain web applications that I use for work.

However, whenever NVDA is running I have noticed that CTRL-C no
longer
works for copying text to the clipboard.

Has anyone else ever had this problem? Is there a command I need to
bind to a different keystroke to make the normal copy functionality
work again? It works normally whenever NVDA is not running.

Best regards,

Ryan Boudwin




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