|
Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading
Gene
I've almost never seen double anything in written
dialog. I don't read much Braille any longer but I used to read a good
deal of Braille and I don't recall ever seeing a double question mark. I
do recall, rarely, seeing double exclamation marks. But a screen-reader
should not ignore such things. It should let the reader know, in some way,
that these nonstandard constructions are present. If it doesn't, it's
worthless as a way to proofread a document where proper formal writing
matters.
If you want to argue that the user should be able
to turn off such notifications, that's a different question. But a
screen-reader should alert the reader if a document has extra spaces between
words, or nonstandard constructions such as double question marks or double
exclamation marks or periods.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's
reading What?!! I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you!!! [Look about. Neither of the above is an uncommon construction,
particularly in written dialog.] I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up. ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the
Universe"
|
|
|
|
Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading
What?!! I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you!!! [Look about. Neither of the above is an uncommon construction, particularly in written dialog.] I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up. ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"
|
|
|
|
Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading
Gene
I don't usually see double question marks or double
exclamation points. And such are far more likely to be the result of
errors. Again, a screen-reader should not treat nonstandard syntax as
though it was standard syntax.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's
reading Chris, And what I'm telling you is that the first version of the question does not read correctly, to my ears, in either NVDA or Window-Eyes and the second two read precisely the same way. Since double exclamation points and double question marks (and/or combinations thereof) are not uncommon I have no issue with a screen reader reading these without any extra string of punctuation. I agree that a terminal space
before the question mark itself is syntactically incorrect and the words should
be read followed by "question mark" announcing the punctuation. There is
no case in written English that I know of where a question mark can "free float"
and be syntactically correct. It is always firmly attached to the final
word in a question construction. I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up. ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the
Universe"
|
|
|
|
Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading
Chris, And what I'm telling you is that the first version of the question does not read correctly, to my ears, in either NVDA or Window-Eyes and the second two read precisely the same way. Since double exclamation points and double question marks (and/or combinations thereof) are not uncommon I have no issue with a screen reader reading these without any extra string of punctuation. I agree that a terminal space before the question mark itself is syntactically incorrect and the words should be read followed by "question mark" announcing the punctuation. There is no case in written English that I know of where a question mark can "free float" and be syntactically correct. It is always firmly attached to the final word in a question construction. I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up. ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"
|
|
|
|
Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading
Chris Mullins
Have you altered the Punctuation/Symbols/pronunciation settings in the NVDA preferences menu to try and obtain your desired results?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Personally, I think the first sentence is syntactically correct and should speak with rising intonation at the end without announcing the question mark symbol and the other two sentences should announce the question mark symbols. I achieved this by by setting the sentence ending question to all and always and the question mark symbol to most and below symbol level. Cheers Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Paulius Sent: 30 June 2016 14:47 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's reading Hi group! I just found some strange NVDA's reading issues that I think need to be fixed: I will write 3 same sentences but with diffrent punctuation.: Any questions? Any questions?? Any questions ? So, what's the difference? NVDA doesn't show these are the questions when the question mark is after space or when it is more than 1 question mark into the same sentence. I hope this will be fixed. Sincerely, Paulius Leveris
|
|
|
|
a quick question about a refreshabraille 18 display
brandon
Hello all,
This is just a quick question does anyone know how to make a refreshabraille 18 have a backspace key? I know you can do enter but you cannot do a backspace command with this display is there a work around for this? Thanks in advance, Brandon, Reed
|
|
|
|
Re: OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of pre-release firefox
I'm glad I could help.
On 6/30/2016 2:40 PM, Jacob Kruger
wrote:
|
|
|
|
Re: OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of pre-release firefox
Jacob Kruger
Thanks.
Busy downloading it now.
Stay well
Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA "Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
|
|
|
|
Re: OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of pre-release firefox
Here's the more direct way. If you google, this should be the first result in the search: https://nightly.mozilla.org/
On 6/30/2016 1:38 PM, Jacob Kruger
wrote:
|
|
|
|
Re: OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of pre-release firefox
If you google Firefox nightly, that should do the trick. HTH
On 6/30/2016 1:38 PM, Jacob Kruger
wrote:
|
|
|
|
OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of pre-release firefox
Jacob Kruger
Sorry, but, just reinstalled my windows 10 64 bit
machine from scratch, for a clean install, and, immediately, firefox seems to be
crashing way too often, and, at times makes NVDA seemingly get confused, and,
know last time, switching over to a sort of pre-release version of firefox
helped, but, can't find the relevant install links in my mail archives,
etc.
However, know it was someone on this list who
helped me out last time..?
TIA
Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA "Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
|
|
|
|
Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading
Andre, I don't know how that fixes anything. I still don't get the correct rising intonation on a sentence ending in a question mark. That being said, I get precisely the same verbalization out of Window-Eyes, which I still consider peculiar. It doesn't sound anything like the way most people say "Any questions?," in that the rise in intonation, and it's subtle, is on the 'a' in "any" with nothing on the "ions" in "questions". -- I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up. ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"
|
|
|
|
Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading
Gene
If there is an error such as a question mark being
written twice, NVDA should not read it correctly or somehow alert the listener
that there is a problem with the syntax. How can you properly proofread a
document if incorrect punctuation is read identically to correct punctuation or
if you are not alerted in some other way or in both ways that there is a
problem?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Andre Fisher
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's
reading 1. Go to the symbol pronunciation dialog. 2. Press the question mark twice. If you hear something like All and Never, move on. 3. Tab to send...to synthesizer and change to either only before... or always. Thanks On 6/30/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote: > I decided to give this a whirl myself and I do suspect that something's up. > > I am used to most screen readers marking a question in the way that most > people do, with a rising intonation at the end of the phrase at the end of > the question. > > If I enter the sentence, "If there are any questions, please ask them now," > followed immediately by, "Any questions?," I don't get any rising intonation > at the end of the word "questions" in the question and seem to get > additional punch on the "Any". > > I am not, however, getting any difference that I can hear on the double > question mark version nor the space followed by question mark version in > comparison to the conventional punctuation. I am using NVDA 2016.2.1 on a > Windows 10 Home 64-bit machine using the Microsoft SAPI-5 synthesizer and > the Microsoft David Desktop English voice with no audio ducking on. > -- > Brian > > I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never > enough to keep up. > ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in > the Universe" >
|
|
|
|
Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading
Gene
I do not get the results you describe using
E-Speak. The first sentence is read properly and the second sentence, Any
questions?, is read with a proper rising intonation.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's
reading I decided to give this a whirl myself and I do suspect that something's up. I am used to most screen readers marking a question in the way that most people do, with a rising intonation at the end of the phrase at the end of the question. If I enter the sentence, "If there are any questions, please ask them now," followed immediately by, "Any questions?," I don't get any rising intonation at the end of the word "questions" in the question and seem to get additional punch on the "Any". I am not, however, getting any difference that I can hear on the double
question mark version nor the space followed by question mark version in
comparison to the conventional punctuation. I am using NVDA 2016.2.1 on a
Windows 10 Home 64-bit machine using the Microsoft SAPI-5 synthesizer and the
Microsoft David Desktop English voice with no audio ducking on. I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up. ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the
Universe"
|
|
|
|
Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading
Andre Fisher
This is indeed an NVDA issue, but can easily be fixed.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
1. Go to the symbol pronunciation dialog. 2. Press the question mark twice. If you hear something like All and Never, move on. 3. Tab to send...to synthesizer and change to either only before... or always. Thanks
On 6/30/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
I decided to give this a whirl myself and I do suspect that something's up.
|
|
|
|
Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading
I decided to give this a whirl myself and I do suspect that something's up. I am used to most screen readers marking a question in the way that most people do, with a rising intonation at the end of the phrase at the end of the question. If I enter the sentence, "If there are any questions, please ask them now," followed immediately by, "Any questions?," I don't get any rising intonation at the end of the word "questions" in the question and seem to get additional punch on the "Any". I am not, however, getting any difference that I can hear on the double question mark version nor the space followed by question mark version in comparison to the conventional punctuation. I am using NVDA 2016.2.1 on a Windows 10 Home 64-bit machine using the Microsoft SAPI-5 synthesizer and the Microsoft David Desktop English voice with no audio ducking on. I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up. ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"
|
|
|
|
Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading
I don't think that is the synthesizer error, because in JAWS all is OK.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
2016-06-30 17:12 GMT+03:00, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com>:
We don't know if this has anything to do with NVDA. It could be the way the
|
|
|
|
Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading
Gene
We don't know if this has anything to do with
NVDA. It could be the way the synthesizer reads. And what does "fix"
mean? Are you saying question mark should be spoken or that improper
syntax be indicated so you will know there is an error? That might make
sense but that is probably asking for a new feature, not for something to be
fixed.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
I just found some strange NVDA's reading issues that I think need to be fixed: I will write 3 same sentences but with diffrent punctuation.: Any questions? Any questions?? Any questions ? So, what's the difference? NVDA doesn't show these are the questions when the question mark is after space or when it is more than 1 question mark into the same sentence. I hope this will be fixed. Sincerely, Paulius Leveris
|
|
|
|
Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading
I tried this with Eloquence, eSpeak and SAPI5 Default, all are making
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
that result... 2016-06-30 16:52 GMT+03:00, John Sanfilippo <john.sanfilippo@verizon.net>:
Hi,
|
|
|
|
Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading
John Sanfilippo <john.sanfilippo@...>
Hi,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I only wonder how much depends on what speech synth is in use. Regards, John s
On 6/30/16 14:47, Paulius wrote:
Hi group!
|
|
|