Date   

Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading

Chris Mullins
 

With the punctuation/symbols pronunciation settings set as I indicated, the first sentence sounds different to the others two my ears.  I’ve tested it with ESpeak and Eloquence I get the same result.  When I originally received the message, the question marks were not spoken in any of the sentences but the 1st 1st line still sounds different to me.

 

I agree with Gene, the 2nd and 3rd sentences do not constitute syntactically correct sentences, so I changed my settings so the questin marks are spoken in those circumstances and thus may enable errors to be detected.

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 30 June 2016 23:38
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's reading

 

Chris,

            And what I'm telling you is that the first version of the question does not read correctly, to my ears, in either NVDA or Window-Eyes and the second two read precisely the same way.

            Since double exclamation points and double question marks (and/or combinations thereof) are not uncommon I have no issue with a screen reader reading these without any extra string of punctuation.

            I agree that a terminal space before the question mark itself is syntactically incorrect and the words should be read followed by "question mark" announcing the punctuation.  There is no case in written English that I know of where a question mark can "free float" and be syntactically correct.  It is always firmly attached to the final word in a question construction.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    

 


Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10

Antony Stone
 

Are you suggesting that Microsoft will at some point forcibly upgrade people's
machines from Windows 7 or 8 to Windows 10?

I know there's a free upgrade available, but it's the user's choice whether to
accept it.

If Microsoft have stated that this will one day become a compulsory upgrade,
please point me to any reference confirming this.


Thanks,


Antony.

On Friday 01 July 2016 at 10:30:16, Shaun Everiss wrote:

One thing though, nvda is going to have to support win10 by the time it
upgrades because home users will get it automatically.
--
I conclude that there are two ways of constructing a software design: One way
is to make it so simple that there are _obviously_ no deficiencies, and the
other way is to make it so complicated that there are no _obvious_
deficiencies.

- C A R Hoare

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10

John Sanfilippo <john.sanfilippo@...>
 

Hello,


Just for a little perspective, I'm running a Macbook Air with Windows 10 since about a month after Windows 10 came out, and of course, my screen access is NVDA. I'm quite happy with it.


What doesn't work, I just avoid. Even so, I think it works just fine.


js

On 7/1/16 9:30, Shaun Everiss wrote:
One thing though, nvda is going to have to support win10 by the time it upgrades because home users will get it automatically.
I can defur the systems I have on pro into the non upgrade branch for a time but as I can't justify defuring a remote for the only reason that I can't access it since I only maintain those, I would like to have the systems I let upgrade, upgraded so I could see what was what.
The only good thing is as long as search works, the settings app, ie, and the desktop I could get buy while you worked with things.



On 1/07/2016 8:06 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
One of the options seems to be that new versions of win 10 come along
and break accessibility in some cases.
I don't think this occurs though if you just take windows updates and
not whole new builds such as insiders get.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "蔡宗豪 Victor Cai"
<surfer0627@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 3:13 AM
Subject: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Hi all,
Windows10 has been released for almost one year. Is this still the case?

Here is a quote from NV Access (Last update: 5 April 2016 00:25 UTC):
we recommend that most users delay upgrading to or purchasing a
computer with Windows 10 until further notice.
resource from:
http://www.nvaccess.org/win10/

Regards,

Victor Cai







Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10

 

One thing though, nvda is going to have to support win10 by the time it upgrades because home users will get it automatically.
I can defur the systems I have on pro into the non upgrade branch for a time but as I can't justify defuring a remote for the only reason that I can't access it since I only maintain those, I would like to have the systems I let upgrade, upgraded so I could see what was what.
The only good thing is as long as search works, the settings app, ie, and the desktop I could get buy while you worked with things.

On 1/07/2016 8:06 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
One of the options seems to be that new versions of win 10 come along
and break accessibility in some cases.
I don't think this occurs though if you just take windows updates and
not whole new builds such as insiders get.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "蔡宗豪 Victor Cai"
<surfer0627@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 3:13 AM
Subject: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Hi all,
Windows10 has been released for almost one year. Is this still the case?

Here is a quote from NV Access (Last update: 5 April 2016 00:25 UTC):
we recommend that most users delay upgrading to or purchasing a
computer with Windows 10 until further notice.
resource from:
http://www.nvaccess.org/win10/

Regards,

Victor Cai





Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10

Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

One of the options seems to be that new versions of win 10 come along and break accessibility in some cases.
I don't think this occurs though if you just take windows updates and not whole new builds such as insiders get.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "蔡宗豪 Victor Cai" <surfer0627@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 3:13 AM
Subject: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Hi all,
Windows10 has been released for almost one year. Is this still the case?

Here is a quote from NV Access (Last update: 5 April 2016 00:25 UTC):
we recommend that most users delay upgrading to or purchasing a computer with Windows 10 until further notice.
resource from:
http://www.nvaccess.org/win10/

Regards,

Victor Cai


Re: noticed reading issues

Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

Yes its not just nvda though, its the speed of the actual display catching up with input. I'm not sure what this is about, but maybe somebody else does know. It was suggested to me that this is more obvious onamd multi core processors, but I don't know enough about hardware to make a comment.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pascal Lambert" <casablanca_31@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] noticed reading issues


Hi,

Since I upgraded to Win10, I am noticing some sluggishness in Windows explorer, Outlook 2013, and at times it is slow responding to keyboard commands in Word and Outlook. I have to issue the command twice to get a response.

I appreciate the help and learning I am getting from the list.

Thanks and blessings to all

Pascal



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 7:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's reading



Chris,

And what I'm telling you is that the first version of the question does not read correctly, to my ears, in either NVDA or Window-Eyes and the second two read precisely the same way.

Since double exclamation points and double question marks (and/or combinations thereof) are not uncommon I have no issue with a screen reader reading these without any extra string of punctuation.

I agree that a terminal space before the question mark itself is syntactically incorrect and the words should be read followed by "question mark" announcing the punctuation. There is no case in written English that I know of where a question mark can "free float" and be syntactically correct. It is always firmly attached to the final word in a question construction.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"


Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading

Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

Exclamation marks are often multiple these days, something pioneered on social media etc, but creeping into other texts more recently.
Questions marks though seem to always be tied to the end of a word unless the ? is in a sentence such as this one is.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's reading


I don't usually see double question marks or double exclamation points. And such are far more likely to be the result of errors. Again, a screen-reader should not treat nonstandard syntax as though it was standard syntax.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 5:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's reading


Chris,

And what I'm telling you is that the first version of the question does not read correctly, to my ears, in either NVDA or Window-Eyes and the second two read precisely the same way.

Since double exclamation points and double question marks (and/or combinations thereof) are not uncommon I have no issue with a screen reader reading these without any extra string of punctuation.

I agree that a terminal space before the question mark itself is syntactically incorrect and the words should be read followed by "question mark" announcing the punctuation. There is no case in written English that I know of where a question mark can "free float" and be syntactically correct. It is always firmly attached to the final word in a question construction.
--
Brian


I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"


Re: Using Thunderbird

Kenny Dog <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi John


I have 3 accounts setup here on mozilla thunderbird.


if your layout is like mine when thunderbird first opens up, you will
need to tab twice until you hear tree view. I think mine defaults to the
main account which shows alll of my folers on the first account. On the
first account, if I tab again it will put me into the inbox and
shift/tab will take me out of it. To go up and down the folers use the
arrow keys the up or down ones, then tab to go into that folder.


So if we go back to the start when it first opens up, tab twice until
you hear tree view you will hear inbox. Next use the left arrow key
until tht branch is calapsed and you hear the name of the first account.
Next use the udown arrow key to go to the next account, then use the
right arrow key to open the branch until you hear NVDA say inbox, then
you can tab into it. Shift tab etc like before to go out of it and arrow
keys to go down or up the other folders. To close that branch use the
left arrow key until you hear the branch is calapsed, then use the down
arrow key to go to the next account, then use the right arrow key to
open it just like before.


hopefully this makes sence.


Gene nz

On 1/07/2016 4:52 PM, John J. Boyer wrote:
I have three accounts. How do I get to a list of them and then pick the
account I want to use? Then look at the inbox, send messages etc.?

Thanks,
John
--
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net


Re: Using Thunderbird

 

Unless there is something I don't know, you have a tree view. You move
up and down the tree view to see folders and accounts. There is no first
letter navigation. I hope that helps you a little bit.

On 7/1/2016 12:52 AM, John J. Boyer wrote:
I have three accounts. How do I get to a list of them and then pick the
account I want to use? Then look at the inbox, send messages etc.?

Thanks,
John


Using Thunderbird

John J. Boyer
 

I have three accounts. How do I get to a list of them and then pick the
account I want to use? Then look at the inbox, send messages etc.?

Thanks,
John

--
John J. Boyer; President,
AbilitiesSoft, Inc.
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
Website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: 501(C)(3) Nonprofit
Location: Madison, Wisconsin USA
Mission: To develop softwares and provide STEM services for people with
disabilities which are available at no cost.


Touch cursor support

Ben J. Bloomgren
 

Hi all,


I'm really seeing the power of the Jaws touch cursor commands, and it makes me curious as to NVDA's capabilities. Does NVDA have such a thing, whether or not it have the same name as it does in Jaws?


By touch cursor, I mean where it'll give users without a touch screen very similar functionality to those with a touch screen using the keyboard only.


Thanks,


Ben


how to find out what's new since I last update the next snapshot

Stephen
 

Hi there.
I would like to get a list of what's changed since (NVDA)
Version: next-13306,69e86e83
before downloading the latest next snapshot. Is there an easy way of doing this?
Thanks.


Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10

 

Hi,
Some developers are working on fixes for upcoming Anniversary Update. Please hold off until NVDA 2016.3 is released.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ??? Victor Cai
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 7:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10

Hi all,
Windows10 has been released for almost one year. Is this still the case?

Here is a quote from NV Access (Last update: 5 April 2016 00:25 UTC):
we recommend that most users delay upgrading to or purchasing a computer with Windows 10 until further notice.
resource from:
http://www.nvaccess.org/win10/

Regards,

Victor Cai


[NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10

蔡宗豪 Victor Cai
 

Hi all,
Windows10 has been released for almost one year. Is this still the case?

Here is a quote from NV Access (Last update: 5 April 2016 00:25 UTC):
we recommend that most users delay upgrading to or purchasing a computer with Windows 10 until further notice.
resource from:
http://www.nvaccess.org/win10/

Regards,

Victor Cai


Re: OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of pre-release firefox

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I tried googling and couldn't find it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Governor
staten
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 6:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of pre-release
firefox

Google Thunderbird nightly. It does exist.





On 6/30/2016 8:34 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Is there a thunderbird nightly? Just wondering.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Governor staten
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of
pre-release firefox

If you google Firefox nightly, that should do the trick. HTH











On 6/30/2016 1:38 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:


Sorry, but, just reinstalled my windows 10 64 bit machine from
scratch, for a clean install, and, immediately, firefox seems to be
crashing way too often, and, at times makes NVDA seemingly get
confused, and, know last time, switching over to a sort of pre-release
version of firefox helped, but, can't find the relevant install links in
my mail archives, etc.

However, know it was someone on this list who helped me out last
time..?

TIA

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."








Re: OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of pre-release firefox

 

Google Thunderbird nightly. It does exist.

On 6/30/2016 8:34 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Is there a thunderbird nightly? Just wondering.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Governor
staten
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of pre-release
firefox

If you google Firefox nightly, that should do the trick. HTH











On 6/30/2016 1:38 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:


Sorry, but, just reinstalled my windows 10 64 bit machine from
scratch, for a clean install, and, immediately, firefox seems to be crashing
way too often, and, at times makes NVDA seemingly get confused, and, know
last time, switching over to a sort of pre-release version of firefox
helped, but, can't find the relevant install links in my mail archives, etc.

However, know it was someone on this list who helped me out last
time..?

TIA

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."








Re: OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of pre-release firefox

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Is there a thunderbird nightly? Just wondering.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Governor
staten
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of pre-release
firefox

If you google Firefox nightly, that should do the trick. HTH











On 6/30/2016 1:38 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:


Sorry, but, just reinstalled my windows 10 64 bit machine from
scratch, for a clean install, and, immediately, firefox seems to be crashing
way too often, and, at times makes NVDA seemingly get confused, and, know
last time, switching over to a sort of pre-release version of firefox
helped, but, can't find the relevant install links in my mail archives, etc.

However, know it was someone on this list who helped me out last
time..?

TIA

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."


Re: noticed reading issues

Pascal Lambert
 

Hi,

Since I upgraded to Win10, I am noticing some sluggishness in Windows explorer, Outlook 2013, and at times it is slow responding to keyboard commands in Word and Outlook.  I have to issue the command twice to get a response.

I appreciate the help and learning I am getting from the list.

Thanks and blessings to all

Pascal  

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 7:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's reading

 

Chris,

            And what I'm telling you is that the first version of the question does not read correctly, to my ears, in either NVDA or Window-Eyes and the second two read precisely the same way.

            Since double exclamation points and double question marks (and/or combinations thereof) are not uncommon I have no issue with a screen reader reading these without any extra string of punctuation.

            I agree that a terminal space before the question mark itself is syntactically incorrect and the words should be read followed by "question mark" announcing the punctuation.  There is no case in written English that I know of where a question mark can "free float" and be syntactically correct.  It is always firmly attached to the final word in a question construction.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    

 


Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Gene,

I've seen double exclamation marks in written documents byt not double question marks. I also feel that a screen reader should tell you if there are double marks. I'd want to know that.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's reading

I've almost never seen double anything in written dialog. I don't read much Braille any longer but I used to read a good deal of Braille and I don't recall ever seeing a double question mark. I do recall, rarely, seeing double exclamation marks. But a screen-reader should not ignore such things. It should let the reader know, in some way, that these nonstandard constructions are present. If it doesn't, it's worthless as a way to proofread a document where proper formal writing matters.

If you want to argue that the user should be able to turn off such notifications, that's a different question. But a screen-reader should alert the reader if a document has extra spaces between words, or nonstandard constructions such as double question marks or double exclamation marks or periods.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 5:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's reading


What?!! I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you!!!

[Look about. Neither of the above is an uncommon construction, particularly in written dialog.]
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"


Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading

Gene
 

I've almost never seen double anything in written dialog.  I don't read much Braille any longer but I used to read a good deal of Braille and I don't recall ever seeing a double question mark.  I do recall, rarely, seeing double exclamation marks.  But a screen-reader should not ignore such things.  It should let the reader know, in some way, that these nonstandard constructions are present.  If it doesn't, it's worthless as a way to proofread a document where proper formal writing matters. 
 
If you want to argue that the user should be able to turn off such notifications, that's a different question.  But a screen-reader should alert the reader if a document has extra spaces between words, or nonstandard constructions such as double question marks or double exclamation marks or periods. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's reading

What?!!   I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you!!!

[Look about.  Neither of the above is an uncommon construction, particularly in written dialog.]
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"