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Re: Poll: I think ducking should go; and other NVDA features proposal and wider discussion
Hi Shaun,
I'm not sure I agree with much of this! I like audio ducking a lot becuase there are often websites that start things playing too loudly and there is no way to navigate to the volume control if ducking is not active. I've experienced this when listening to a podcast that I wanted to listen to and I've also experienced it when going to newspaper sites and I have been listening to NVDA read the article only for it to start playing a video of some other news story and it can be difficult to navigate down to the mute button. As for bundling addons into NVDA I suspect many people would find that getting close to being bloatware. The beauty of addons is that we can choose whether to install themn or not, and we can uninstal them if we find we don't need them or they are interfereing with something else. I can't see (pardon the pun) the pint in adding to the size of the NVDA executable when not everybody is going to use, for example, the WinAmp addon. I do use WinAmp every day but I don't use the addon becuase I tried it and it didn't enance anything I do with WinAmp, so I uninstalled it. SO my vote, if you're counting them, is that I would not want lots of addons bundled into NVDA by default. I'm pretty sure there was a discussion on this around the time Screen Curtain was developed. The general agreement was that the core NVDA program should only do screen reader functions and that things like the screen curtain or the weather app, things which I think I remember JAWS coming bundled with (it's a long time since I've used JAWS) were best left as addons for individual users to decide on whether to install or not. Just my 2 currency units' worth :)
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Re: Poll: I think ducking should go; and other NVDA features proposal and wider discussion
On Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 10:26 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
I agree with you on the ducting. I don't use it a lot with NVDARon, what follows is not personally aimed at you, but at this concept, which several have expressed. Whether or not you, any you, use a given feature or function is irrelevant. You can be assured that a very great many others do. It becomes completely irrelevant when that feature is configurable to an OFF state by the user. All programs have features that any individual user may not like or may not use. All programs have default settings that may not suit a given individual. The first task of any user, with any program, is to do the exploration necessary to configure it to match their own wants and needs to the maximal extent possible. You don't "steal features" that are assuredly used by many because you (the generic you) cannot be bothered to learn how to configure them, which includes turning them off. Software is not now, and will never be, bespoke for any given individual unless they've written it themselves for themselves. Something like NVDA should not be expected to be anything near to being so in its "out of the box" state. You're going to have to tweak it to make it fit. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. ~ Edward Abbey
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Re: Poll: I think ducking should go; and other NVDA features proposal and wider discussion
Rui Fontes
The education about how NVDA works, about the existence of add-ons and so on, it is not one of the major responsabilities of the various local communities?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
At least, for the portuguese community, it is, and we are doing a good job, proven by the continuos growth of user basis... Rui Fontes NVDA portuguese team Às 15:33 de 28/04/2019, Ron Canazzi escreveu:
Hi Gene,
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Re: Poll: I think ducking should go; and other NVDA features proposal and wider discussion
Ron Canazzi
Hi Gene,
You make a good point, but that could easily be rectified if during the install, there is a reference screen that says something like: "You have just installed the basic NVDA package. NVDA is a flexible program and there are additional add-ons which can expand the functionality of NVDA for such programs as Winamp, Thunderbird, ETC. The add-ons can be found at..." This would inform anyone installing the program that major enhancements can be added to NVDA functionality by the use of add-ons.
On 4/28/2019 9:40 AM, Gene wrote:
-- They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes. They ask: "How Happy are You?" I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
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Re: Poll: I think ducking should go; and other NVDA features proposal and wider discussion
Ron Canazzi
Hi Vlad,
I agree with you on the ducting. I don't use it a lot with NVDA because I use a computer and long before ducting, I used 2 separate sound cards and have total control. However, I am using ducting on the iPhone and the way Apple has instituted it works great and is definitely an advantage. For those who can't run 2 separate sound cards, it is truly a godsend.
As far as including a huge number of add-ons with NVDA, I also disagree with this one. One of the good things about NVDA is that it is under public license and is subject to a lot of different additions and variations. I would hate to see it become so bulky that is gets like JAWS which has so much bloteware and features that many people don't use that it is at times extremely redundant. People in developing countries probably appreciate the slim and streamline aspects of NVDA. If they need it only for word processing, why should they have to include a bunch of add-ons that would make the download so much larger and perhaps create a situation where there could be conflicts with their desired tasks.
...just my opinion.
On 4/28/2019 8:57 AM, Vlad Dragomir
wrote:
-- They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes. They ask: "How Happy are You?" I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
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Re: Poll: I think ducking should go; and other NVDA features proposal and wider discussion
On Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 09:56 AM, Devin Prater wrote:
Wait, there's an addon for Outlook?When I see things like this my jaw drops? The official NVDA Add-Ons Page, whose address has been posted hundreds of times, is: https://addons.nvda-project.org/index.en.html. Each add-on is presented, by title, as a link on the page. If you, any you, who've been an NVDA user and participant on any NVDA related list/forum for a long time have never bothered to go there and do a cruise-through of the links to see what's what you have no one to blame but yourselves. I'm not about to give the actual link in this case, but the fact that there is an add-on named Outlook Extended answers that question. [The above may not apply to Devin if that comment was in jest, but it certainly applies to any member who's been on this list for at least a month. Go look, and if you need to activate an add-on title to get a further description of its function, well . . . ] -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. ~ Edward Abbey
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Re: Poll: I think ducking should go; and other NVDA features proposal and wider discussion
Devin Prater
Wait, there's an addon for Outlook?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Apr 28, 2019, at 7:18 AM, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
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Re: Poll: I think ducking should go; and other NVDA features proposal and wider discussion
Lenron
I am sure many people miss out on addons because they don't know about them.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 4/28/19, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
I think that perhaps the most important reason to add certain add-ons to the --
Lenron Brown Cell: 985-271-2832 Skype: ron.brown762
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Re: Poll: I think ducking should go; and other NVDA features proposal and wider discussion
Gene
I think that perhaps the most important reason to
add certain add-ons to the program itself is that a lot of NVDA users don't
know, and won't know, that add-ons exist or where to get them.
I'm very curious if anyone has any idea what
percent of NVDA users use add--ons and knows where to get them and how to see
what is available. It may not be practical to do such a study but I'd be
surprised if more than thirty or forty percent of NVDA users use add-ons.
And some of those users may use ones that instructors told them about or
installed. The user may not know where to get them or where to find out
what is available.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Vlad Dragomir
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2019 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] pole, I think ducking should go and other nvda
features proposal and wider discussion Hello,
Interesting topic! Personally I only agree with half of it. It would be indeed great if at least some add-ons became part of NVDA, and I would include Screen Curtain among those.
On the other hand, I totally oppose the exclusion of the ducking function. It’s extremely useful, especially with services like Youtube or Google Play Music. Often it’s the only way to hear the screen reader without having to close everything else.
Let’s see what other opinions come up!
Cheers,
Vlad.
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Re: Poll: I think ducking should go; and other NVDA features proposal and wider discussion
The only thing I agree with you on is the second bit of your message. Otherwise, you're wrong about the notion that people don't use ducking. I don't have the patience to explain to you why you are wrong, but you are wrong. As for your other points, some of those are valid. But how about you make an actual poll or survey rather than pretending like you know what we want.
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Announcement of “Filed” Status
Ed Marquette
When one reads through the list of email messages in Microsoft Outlook (2013), a number of attributes (probably the correct term is “header fields”) are announced, e.g., “From,” “Received Date,” “Attachment Presence,” and “Size.”
On our firm’s system, we also have a “Filed Status” indication that either reads “Yes” or “No.” If I manually read the cells, Outlook messages are presented in table format), I find that this status indication is presented in what NVDA calls column 6. This “Filed” status indication is the second most important feature, for my purposes. I have moved it up in Outlook, and JAWS reads it fine. I cannot, however, get NVDA to read it automatically as I arrow up and down through the inbox. I think I am missing something. Any assistance would be appreciated.
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Re: Poll: I think ducking should go; and other NVDA features proposal and wider discussion
Vlad Dragomir
Hello,
Interesting topic! Personally I only agree with half of it. It would be indeed great if at least some add-ons became part of NVDA, and I would include Screen Curtain among those.
On the other hand, I totally oppose the exclusion of the ducking function. It’s extremely useful, especially with services like Youtube or Google Play Music. Often it’s the only way to hear the screen reader without having to close everything else.
Let’s see what other opinions come up!
Cheers,
Vlad.
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Poll: I think ducking should go; and other NVDA features proposal and wider discussion
Hi.
Since the list is a bit quiet, and such, I propose the next discussion should be on nvda's features, and why we put them there especially the older ones. I'd like to talk about intergration of addons and features that have been round for ages. 1 ducking. Can someone remind me why we had it in the first place. I've always been apposed to it, mainly because of the fact no one really uses it, at least I cann't see any reason a normal user like myself either on office or a gamer like me would need it in general. I could see it when ducking some sounds, maybe or just turning down volumes. I just answered a message with it in, but I have never cared for it. I think this feature should go unless its used. I also think stable addons that have been stable for 1 year or so maybe 6 months to 1 year should be reviewed for nvda core, and if not within a 2 year period if not further developed. The following should be conciddered. 1. if interpritors by nick stocton. Unless this addon has any new version changes then I have used it with frotz and winglulx, tads, and its stable enough to put it in or at least native support of it. 1. the image describer while new shows promise though having that could be an eventual support down the road. Not sure about all the text and brousernav addons. But all the program support addons, eg winamp, dropbox, outlook, teamtalk, etc should eventually go into nvda, as well as goldwave. Calibre and toolbars explorer maybe and easy table nav. THe math support, the updater eventually, the mozilla addon, and a few things like that. This should extend to any addons that are used which havn't been updated for ages but look good, app support, and a few features. I also think that sound scheme support for alternit sounds and theme support maybe similar to windows sound schemes should be part of nvda. I also don't mind paying for professional theme packs for nvda. This is not just the addons on the site excluding alegal addons and stuff used for one thing only, but especially with the nvda python3 project, eventually well next build we will start loosing addons that are not compatible. And a few addons havn't had updates for whatever reason, maybe some of these are stable enough and don't need any.
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Re: Windows 10 App Essentials 19.05 is on its way
#addonrelease
abdul muhamin
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2019 5:24 AM To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 19.05 is on its way #AddonRelease
Hi all,
In the next few hours Windows 10 App Essentials 19.05 will hit the air. This version includes localization updates, Calculator enhancements, and makes the add-on more compatible with Windows 10 Version 1903 (May 2019 Update).
Additional note: after installing version 19.05, last tested version will be displayed as “2019.2”. I’ll talk more about this change in due time.
Cheers, Joseph
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Re: saving a list of headings
Gene
Look in document formatting. I believe what
you will see will be self-explanatory. But what is the advantage in using
the headings list? You can just start at the top of the document and type
h to move by heading. Once on the heading, copy it to the clipboard, move
somewhere such as Notepad or to a Word processor window, paste it In, press
enter to be on a blank line, then move back to the document and repeat the
procedure until you have copied the headings to wherever you want
them.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2019 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] saving a list of headings Thanks for your very helpful notes, Rick,
I did not realise that so many categories were available to be listed under NVDA + F7 nor that I could select the different categories. I could not find any advice on this feature in the NVDA user manual. If I have missed it, could you point me to the entry in the manual for future reference?
To answer your question, I need to collect all the headings in a document that I need to re-organise. The paragraph contents under the headings are perfect but the way the document is structured badly needs reworking. In my setup NVDA does not say anything about levels such as you describe. I simply get the text of the headings but no idea what level they are at. Since you do get these levels, I suppose there must be some control that I have turned off somewhere that enables the levels to be spoken. Can you clarify that for me?
I should mention that I am using NVDA2019.1.1 runnign in Windows 10. I use Office 2016 for spread sheets, documents and mail and Firfox for internet access.
All the best,
Cearbhall
m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
From:
nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Rick
Hello Cearbhall:
Did you mean NVDA+F7 to open the elements dialog?
This brings up a list of elements which are grouped in categories. For example, when browsing the web, the categories are:
In the headings group, NVDA announces levels instead of heading numbers. Level 0 corresponds to Heading1, Level 1 corresponds to Heading2, etc. When using the up and down arrow keys to navigate the list of headings, NVDA announces the level at the end, except when the level changes. Then it is announced at the beginning. For properly nested headings, you can collapse and expand the list using left and right arrow keys. NVDA announces if the level is collapsed or expanded.
I am not sure why you need the extra verbosity for links, since when viewing links in that category, only links are present. NVDA even announces if a link has been visited. Same for buttons and landmarks.
Rick
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Hi,
I can see that NVDA + F6 lists elements including headings, links and so on. However, the list does not identify what each element is as I scroll down through the elements. I would like to hear NVDA say “heading 1”, Heading 2”, or even “link” when each element is highlighted in the list.
Is there a setting somewhere that allows me to turn on this verbosity? If so, I cannot find it but I would welcome your advice.
Is it possible to save the elements list as a text file that I can use for other editing purposes?
All the best,
Cearbhall
m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
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Re: saving a list of headings
Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Thanks for your very helpful notes, Rick,
I did not realise that so many categories were available to be listed under NVDA + F7 nor that I could select the different categories. I could not find any advice on this feature in the NVDA user manual. If I have missed it, could you point me to the entry in the manual for future reference?
To answer your question, I need to collect all the headings in a document that I need to re-organise. The paragraph contents under the headings are perfect but the way the document is structured badly needs reworking. In my setup NVDA does not say anything about levels such as you describe. I simply get the text of the headings but no idea what level they are at. Since you do get these levels, I suppose there must be some control that I have turned off somewhere that enables the levels to be spoken. Can you clarify that for me?
I should mention that I am using NVDA2019.1.1 runnign in Windows 10. I use Office 2016 for spread sheets, documents and mail and Firfox for internet access.
All the best,
Cearbhall
m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2019 9:45 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] saving a list of headings
Hello Cearbhall:
Did you mean NVDA+F7 to open the elements dialog?
This brings up a list of elements which are grouped in categories. For example, when browsing the web, the categories are:
In the headings group, NVDA announces levels instead of heading numbers. Level 0 corresponds to Heading1, Level 1 corresponds to Heading2, etc. When using the up and down arrow keys to navigate the list of headings, NVDA announces the level at the end, except when the level changes. Then it is announced at the beginning. For properly nested headings, you can collapse and expand the list using left and right arrow keys. NVDA announces if the level is collapsed or expanded.
I am not sure why you need the extra verbosity for links, since when viewing links in that category, only links are present. NVDA even announces if a link has been visited. Same for buttons and landmarks.
Rick
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Hi,
I can see that NVDA + F6 lists elements including headings, links and so on. However, the list does not identify what each element is as I scroll down through the elements. I would like to hear NVDA say “heading 1”, Heading 2”, or even “link” when each element is highlighted in the list.
Is there a setting somewhere that allows me to turn on this verbosity? If so, I cannot find it but I would welcome your advice.
Is it possible to save the elements list as a text file that I can use for other editing purposes?
All the best,
Cearbhall
m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
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Re: saving a list of headings
Rick
Hello Cearbhall:
Did you mean NVDA+F7 to open the elements dialog?
This brings up a list of elements which are grouped in categories. For example, when browsing the web, the categories are:
In the headings group, NVDA announces levels instead of heading numbers. Level 0 corresponds to Heading1, Level 1 corresponds to Heading2, etc. When using the up and down arrow keys to navigate the list of headings, NVDA announces the level at the end, except when the level changes. Then it is announced at the beginning. For properly nested headings, you can collapse and expand the list using left and right arrow keys. NVDA announces if the level is collapsed or expanded.
I am not sure why you need the extra verbosity for links, since when viewing links in that category, only links are present. NVDA even announces if a link has been visited. Same for buttons and landmarks.
Rick
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2019 3:49 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] saving a list of headings
Hi,
I can see that NVDA + F6 lists elements including headings, links and so on. However, the list does not identify what each element is as I scroll down through the elements. I would like to hear NVDA say “heading 1”, Heading 2”, or even “link” when each element is highlighted in the list.
Is there a setting somewhere that allows me to turn on this verbosity? If so, I cannot find it but I would welcome your advice.
Is it possible to save the elements list as a text file that I can use for other editing purposes?
All the best,
Cearbhall
m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
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Re: i really need some help with sound
Curtis Delzer
there is a little utility which will keep your speakers working
though you don't hear the action called silenzio. Just install it and it will keep your speakers happy though you don't hear what it is doing. Here is a link to it. https://od.lk/d/NjRfMTEwOTM5Mjhf/Silenzio.exe Curtis Delzer HS W B 6 H E F Rialto, CA On 4/25/2019 11:37 PM, Darren Harris
via Groups.Io wrote:
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Add-on Updater 19.05, other add-on releases on their way
#addonrelease
Hi all,
In a few hours Add-on Updater 19.05 will hit the air (released). This is a mandatory update that updates NVDA compatibility range.
Speaking of add-on updates, expect updates for the following add-ons in the next few days:
Cheers, Joseph
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Re: Has anyone used NVDA with WordPress?
Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
If its web based then a browser might be the culprit.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
If it did work and you now say it won't raise an issue on the nvda issue tracker, its the only way it will be looked into. Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Boyer" <john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Friday, April 26, 2019 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Has anyone used NVDA with WordPress? I have had a problem moderating comments since October with all the changes in NVDA and Wordpress. I'm pretty sure it's
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