Hello Everyone.

Running NVDA 2019.1.1 with windows 10 1809. NVDA remote was working
fine up until a few days ago. It's no longer working for me. I've
tried disabling all of my add-ons and just leaving NVDA remote enabled
to rule out an add-on conflict all to no avail. When I try to go in to
remote options or connect, I don't get any dialogue displayed. Anyone
got any ideas?

Cheers,

Mo.

Hello Everyone.

Running NVDA 2019.1.1 with windows 10 1809. NVDA remote was working fine up until a few days ago. It's no longer working for me. I've tried disabling all of my add-ons and just leaving NVDA remote enabled to rule out an add-on conflict all to no avail. When I try to go in to remote options or connect, I don't get any dialogue displayed. Anyone got any ideas?

Cheers,

Mo.

iTunes will only be going away for the Mac. It’s still going to be lingering for windows unfortunately. https://www.macrumors.com/2019/06/04/itunes-for-windows-is-sticking-around/

Well, this rant--long as usual--and very legalistic sounding--sounds like some of the arguments we are getting out of Washington these days.  My lack of advancement is justified but yours isn't!

Apparently you forget the go round we had over ribbons where I pointed out how an aspect of Excel that was very easy to do using the old menus lasted for about 3 days with over 20 exchanges.  Long story short, you finally had to admit that it was an accessibility issue in Excel that wasn't existing in the old menus system.  I could have further deconstructed your arguments back then a couple of years ago, but I gave up after 3 days. 

You come on at times like a defense lawyer arguing a case in court rather than an adviser of people who are on a list--some of them newbies who are afraid (as I was once) to try new things.

On 7/13/2019 5:56 AM, Gene wrote:

Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone.  I do not.  but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc.  That's because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing.  There are other things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.  My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't received proper instruction and because they have heard so many negative comments about from others who haven't received proper instruction.  And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear itself, as was famously said.

 

If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging many people from learning.  If you can find instances where I have viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,. 

 

What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this?  I don't make up widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of further corrections and testing.  And there have been two such bad upgrades in the last eighteen months.  I don't think the last one was nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among users.  While the number of people asking about problems after a Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows, where service packs were released far more infrequently and people didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour, upgrading Windows twice a year. 

 

What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it is a matter of fact? 

 

And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10.  I simply think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible.  If people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine.  If someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am not personally criticial on a personal level.  But I think that users should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7.  and it also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where support will continue longer.  It is my impression that Windows 10 is harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10 and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind computer users. 

 

I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to people upgrading on those grounds.  I haven't used Windows 10.  As far as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface itself is similar to Windows 7.  As far as I can tell, working with apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my impression is that there isn't much learning to do.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Canazzi

Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10. 

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10.  I know there were issues with 1803, but I never experienced them. 

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead of the somewhat standard search/start menu system. 

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a lot of Word/Excel/Access features.  Yet, I muddle through and am able to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus. 

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by sighted people as well.  This is so much so that there are ribbon disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not intended solely for the  blind.

On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:

This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and why I object to Windows 10 strongly.  It also discusses how my objection is related to screen-reader development.  In my opinion, Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes that affect accessibility.

 

At some point, you will have little choice.  Increasingly fewer programs will be supported in XP.  Your old browsers will work with fewer and fewer sites.  If you need something new like a printer, no new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers.  When XP will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I don't know. 

 

My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades per year.  Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if there ar no problems.  Before Windows 10, there were service packs spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of Windows 7, there was only one.  I very much object to Microsoft imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on users.  And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility.  Lee releases one release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Canazzi

Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change.  I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired.  But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no issues.  If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely.  But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal.  I bet you would get used to it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:
> i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!
>
> On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@...> wrote:
>> Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using it you
>> are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now I;m on ten
>> I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it or not I
>> had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: zahra
>> Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++
>>
>> xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
>> versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another operating
>> systems!
>>
>> On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
>> <perry.simm@...> wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
>>>> favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
>>> Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the internet in
>>> any
>>> way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for it.
>>> Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
>>> Cheers Perry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> By God,
>> were I given all the seven heavens
>> with all they contain
>> in order that
>> I may disobey God
>> by depriving an ant
>> from the husk of a grain of barley,
>> I would not do it.
>> imam ali
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone.  I do not.  but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc.  That's because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing.  There are other things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.  My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't received proper instruction and because they have heard so many negative comments about from others who haven't received proper instruction.  And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear itself, as was famously said.

 

If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging many people from learning.  If you can find instances where I have viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,. 

 

What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this?  I don't make up widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of further corrections and testing.  And there have been two such bad upgrades in the last eighteen months.  I don't think the last one was nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among users.  While the number of people asking about problems after a Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows, where service packs were released far more infrequently and people didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour, upgrading Windows twice a year. 

 

What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it is a matter of fact? 

 

And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10.  I simply think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible.  If people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine.  If someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am not personally criticial on a personal level.  But I think that users should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7.  and it also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where support will continue longer.  It is my impression that Windows 10 is harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10 and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind computer users. 

 

I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to people upgrading on those grounds.  I haven't used Windows 10.  As far as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface itself is similar to Windows 7.  As far as I can tell, working with apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my impression is that there isn't much learning to do.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Canazzi

Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10. 

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10.  I know there were issues with 1803, but I never experienced them. 

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead of the somewhat standard search/start menu system. 

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a lot of Word/Excel/Access features.  Yet, I muddle through and am able to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus. 

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by sighted people as well.  This is so much so that there are ribbon disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not intended solely for the  blind.

On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:

This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and why I object to Windows 10 strongly.  It also discusses how my objection is related to screen-reader development.  In my opinion, Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes that affect accessibility.

 

At some point, you will have little choice.  Increasingly fewer programs will be supported in XP.  Your old browsers will work with fewer and fewer sites.  If you need something new like a printer, no new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers.  When XP will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I don't know. 

 

My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades per year.  Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if there ar no problems.  Before Windows 10, there were service packs spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of Windows 7, there was only one.  I very much object to Microsoft imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on users.  And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility.  Lee releases one release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Canazzi

Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change.  I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired.  But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no issues.  If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely.  But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal.  I bet you would get used to it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:
> i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!
>
> On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@...> wrote:
>> Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using it you
>> are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now I;m on ten
>> I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it or not I
>> had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: zahra
>> Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++
>>
>> xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
>> versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another operating
>> systems!
>>
>> On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
>> <perry.simm@...> wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
>>>> favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
>>> Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the internet in
>>> any
>>> way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for it.
>>> Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
>>> Cheers Perry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> By God,
>> were I given all the seven heavens
>> with all they contain
>> in order that
>> I may disobey God
>> by depriving an ant
>> from the husk of a grain of barley,
>> I would not do it.
>> imam ali
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

iTunes is useful and accessible. Where have you been having problems? I use it all the time.

 

                                                                                                                                If all I have left in this world is God, I have everything!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: brandon
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 10:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Is the windows10 version of itunes accessible with NVDA?

 

Hi all,

 

 

I have been trying to get the most current version of Itunes to work

well on my computer. It seems that they don't want to play nice right

now NVDA and itunes both are very sluggish and both processor intensive.

 

I was wondering since there is a itunes for windows 10 if that would

work well with nvda rather then the current non-windows 10 verson.

 

Thanks for your assistance.

 

Brandon

 

 

 

 

 

Ed,

One thing I always check when F2 doesn't work is to make sure the excel screen is maximized.

-----Original Message----- From: Ed Marquette
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2019 3:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Editing a Cell in Microsoft Excel

All:

I’m not an expert Excel user, but I am not a novice either. I’ve been using Excel 2013 until about three weeks ago.
To edit a cell, I have always just pressed F-2. Since moving to Excel 2016 (from Office 365), this function no longer provides feedback.
In other words, after pressing F-2, NVDA is silent when using the arrow keys to locate the precise location at which to edit. One of my colleagues noted that the cursor is indeed in the edit box and that it does in fact move when the arrow keys move, but none of the text reading commands work in the edit box. My colleague, a sighted patent lawyer, was glad to hear about the F-2 function; it is much faster than the sighted world’s default way of editing cells (by using the mouse to click into the edit box after highlighting the desired cell.
So, Excel is doing what it is supposed to do with F-2. NVDA is not.
By the way JAWS has exactly the same problem. Both screen readers used to work just fine in the Excel 2013 world.
Neither works in the Excel 2016 world.
Of course, none of our IT folks has a clew. In fact, none of them had ever heard of using F-2.
By the way, I’m using a brand new Lenovo Yoga laptop and no, this isn’t related to the default function key assignments Lenovo assigns. I’m using a USB keyboard (in fact, two different USB keyboards).
Suggestions would be appreciated.

Ps
I just double-checked Quinten’s tutorial on using Excel, and he too advocates using
F-2. I’m stumped.

Hi Brandon,
I use the latest version of iTunes on a Win10 PC. iTunes is sometimes tricky to navigate but it is just a question of getting used to it. In the help menu (annoyingly the names of the menus aren't spoken for me, but by arrowing down the menu you can hear what the options are) and there is keyboard shortcuts information in the help menu, which is the furthest right menu as with most pieces of software .
I ran into trouble the other day when 3 tracks from an album I had bought would not play in WinAmp nor in iTunes ... it kept prompting me to login to iTunes but, after logging in and trying to play the track, it again took me to the login / "authorise this computer" page.
I Googled the email contact for iTunes and contacted them with the problem. I had a very good and quick response from a person on the support team. The problem didn't get sorted so he suggested I phoned and asked to speak to the technical support team, which I did. My call to them lasted for about an hour and, as we weren't getting a totally satisfactory solution (the track would play on my iPhone but not on my Windows PC in iTunes or WinAmp) I mentioned that I was blind and using NVDA ... and he put me through to a disabilities team and that team helped me re-download the tracks I'd purchased and that did fix the problematic playback issue!
The one thing I was impressed with was that I never felt I was being pushed from one team to the next ... each one tried their best to help me and, if I'd known there was a team that deals with disabled people and is aware of NVDA and JAWS, then I would probably got a quicker answer.
Often when a new version of iTunes is made available I don't tend to install it right away, just to give chance for any issues to be reported to iTunes and for them to fix them! :)
Giles

Hi Harreth,

I agree with you on the ribbons, unfortunately, they're not going away
any time soon. A good source for a ribbon tutorial is Ann Parson's
audio (mp3 format) tutorials. I am not sure if those are free or not,
but I believe she posted them on the Blinds Tech list a few months ago.
Maybe she would appreciate a donation?


On 7/13/2019 8:44 AM, Hareth wrote:

greetings,
Despite the wishfully simplified some like to picture ribbons,
And Even if we mastered the use of them, They are at least disliked,
If not out-right hate to use them, that's for the most of us.
And that's the way with a lot of sighted people as well.
Plus some forgot that the ease of usage is a major factor of
accessibility
Ribbons are not, and never will be, as easy to use and memorize as the
classic menus, Plane and simple.

Regards

On 7/13/19, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:

Well, this rant--long as usual--and very legalistic sounding--sounds
like some of the arguments we are getting out of Washington these days.
My lack of advancement is justified but yours isn't!

Apparently you forget the go round we had over ribbons where I pointed
out how an aspect of Excel that was very easy to do using the old menus
lasted for about 3 days with over 20 exchanges. Long story short, you
finally had to admit that it was an accessibility issue in Excel that
wasn't existing in the old menus system. I could have further
deconstructed your arguments back then a couple of years ago, but I gave
up after 3 days.

You come on at times like a defense lawyer arguing a case in court
rather than an adviser of people who are on a list--some of them newbies
who are afraid (as I was once) to try new things.



On 7/13/2019 5:56 AM, Gene wrote:

Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone. I do not.
but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such
as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc. That's
because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an
understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are
similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down
arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing. There are other
things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.
My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly
disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is
because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by
wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible
interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't
received proper instruction and because they have heard so many
negative comments about from others who haven't received proper
instruction. And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become
more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because
they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear
itself, as was famously said.
If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same
strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the
person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging
many people from learning. If you can find instances where I have
viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong
feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons
which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,.
What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this? I don't make up
widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious
problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped
releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of
further corrections and testing. And there have been two such bad
upgrades in the last eighteen months. I don't think the last one was
nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among
users. While the number of people asking about problems after a
Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate
that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows,
where service packs were released far more infrequently and people
didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour,
upgrading Windows twice a year.
What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone
who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it
is a matter of fact?
And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10. I simply
think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of
waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who
don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who
want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible. If
people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine. If
someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am
not personally criticial on a personal level. But I think that users
should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they
currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7. and it
also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where
support will continue longer. It is my impression that Windows 10 is
harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking
resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10
and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus
possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind
computer users.
I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to
people upgrading on those grounds. I haven't used Windows 10. As far
as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface
itself is similar to Windows 7. As far as I can tell, working with
apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface
of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my
impression is that there isn't much learning to do.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@...>
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are
uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some
say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10.

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10. I know there were issues with 1803, but I never
experienced them.

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the
Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead
of the somewhat standard search/start menu system.

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a
lot of Word/Excel/Access features. Yet, I muddle through and am able
to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a
cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old
pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus.

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by
sighted people as well. This is so much so that there are ribbon
disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not
intended solely for the blind.



On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:

This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and
why I object to Windows 10 strongly. It also discusses how my
objection is related to screen-reader development. In my opinion,
Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount
of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes
that affect accessibility.
At some point, you will have little choice. Increasingly fewer
programs will be supported in XP. Your old browsers will work with
fewer and fewer sites. If you need something new like a printer, no
new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers. When XP
will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I
don't know.
My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades
per year. Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two
major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if
there ar no problems. Before Windows 10, there were service packs
spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of
Windows 7, there was only one. I very much object to Microsoft
imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on
users. And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to
constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending
changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility. Lee releases one
release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@...>
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change. I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired. But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did
it
big time and I have no issues. If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely. But if it is simply a fear of the unknown,
rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal. I bet you would get used to
it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:

i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!

On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@...

<mailto:nedster66@...>> wrote:

Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using

it you

are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now

I;m on ten

I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it

or not I

had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: zahra
Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another
operating
systems!

On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
<perry.simm@...

<mailto:perry.simm@...>> wrote:

Hi!

On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...

<mailto:nasrinkhaksar3@...>> wrote:

notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).

Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the

internet in

any
way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for
it.
Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
Cheers Perry

--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

greetings,
Despite the wishfully simplified some like to picture ribbons,
And Even if we mastered the use of them, They are at least disliked,
If not out-right hate to use them, that's for the most of us.
And that's the way with a lot of sighted people as well.
Plus some forgot that the ease of usage is a major factor of accessibility
Ribbons are not, and never will be, as easy to use and memorize as the
classic menus, Plane and simple.

Regards

On 7/13/19, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:

Well, this rant--long as usual--and very legalistic sounding--sounds
like some of the arguments we are getting out of Washington these days.
My lack of advancement is justified but yours isn't!

Apparently you forget the go round we had over ribbons where I pointed
out how an aspect of Excel that was very easy to do using the old menus
lasted for about 3 days with over 20 exchanges.  Long story short, you
finally had to admit that it was an accessibility issue in Excel that
wasn't existing in the old menus system.  I could have further
deconstructed your arguments back then a couple of years ago, but I gave
up after 3 days.

You come on at times like a defense lawyer arguing a case in court
rather than an adviser of people who are on a list--some of them newbies
who are afraid (as I was once) to try new things.



On 7/13/2019 5:56 AM, Gene wrote:

Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone.  I do not.
but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such
as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc.  That's
because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an
understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are
similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down
arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing.  There are other
things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.
My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly
disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is
because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by
wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible
interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't
received proper instruction and because they have heard so many
negative comments about from others who haven't received proper
instruction.  And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become
more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because
they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear
itself, as was famously said.
If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same
strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the
person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging
many people from learning.  If you can find instances where I have
viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong
feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons
which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,.
What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this?  I don't make up
widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious
problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped
releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of
further corrections and testing.  And there have been two such bad
upgrades in the last eighteen months.  I don't think the last one was
nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among
users.  While the number of people asking about problems after a
Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate
that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows,
where service packs were released far more infrequently and people
didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour,
upgrading Windows twice a year.
What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone
who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it
is a matter of fact?
And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10.  I simply
think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of
waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who
don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who
want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible.  If
people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine.  If
someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am
not personally criticial on a personal level.  But I think that users
should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they
currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7.  and it
also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where
support will continue longer.  It is my impression that Windows 10 is
harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking
resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10
and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus
possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind
computer users.
I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to
people upgrading on those grounds.  I haven't used Windows 10.  As far
as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface
itself is similar to Windows 7.  As far as I can tell, working with
apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface
of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my
impression is that there isn't much learning to do.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@...>
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are
uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some
say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10.

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10.  I know there were issues with 1803, but I never
experienced them.

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the
Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead
of the somewhat standard search/start menu system.

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a
lot of Word/Excel/Access features.  Yet, I muddle through and am able
to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a
cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old
pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus.

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by
sighted people as well.  This is so much so that there are ribbon
disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not
intended solely for the  blind.



On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:

This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and
why I object to Windows 10 strongly.  It also discusses how my
objection is related to screen-reader development.  In my opinion,
Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount
of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes
that affect accessibility.
At some point, you will have little choice.  Increasingly fewer
programs will be supported in XP.  Your old browsers will work with
fewer and fewer sites.  If you need something new like a printer, no
new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers.  When XP
will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I
don't know.
My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades
per year.  Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two
major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if
there ar no problems. Before Windows 10, there were service packs
spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of
Windows 7, there was only one.  I very much object to Microsoft
imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on
users.  And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to
constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending
changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility.  Lee releases one
release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@...>
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change.  I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired.  But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no issues.  If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely.  But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal.  I bet you would get used to it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:

i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!

On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@...

<mailto:nedster66@...>> wrote:

Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using

it you

are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now

I;m on ten

I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it

or not I

had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: zahra
Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another
operating
systems!

On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
<perry.simm@...

<mailto:perry.simm@...>> wrote:

Hi!

On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...

<mailto:nasrinkhaksar3@...>> wrote:

notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).

Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the

internet in

any
way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for
it.
Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
Cheers Perry

--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

Well, this rant--long as usual--and very legalistic sounding--sounds
like some of the arguments we are getting out of Washington these days.
My lack of advancement is justified but yours isn't!

Apparently you forget the go round we had over ribbons where I pointed
out how an aspect of Excel that was very easy to do using the old menus
lasted for about 3 days with over 20 exchanges.  Long story short, you
finally had to admit that it was an accessibility issue in Excel that
wasn't existing in the old menus system.  I could have further
deconstructed your arguments back then a couple of years ago, but I gave
up after 3 days.

You come on at times like a defense lawyer arguing a case in court
rather than an adviser of people who are on a list--some of them newbies
who are afraid (as I was once) to try new things.



On 7/13/2019 5:56 AM, Gene wrote:

Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone.  I do not.
but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such
as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc.  That's
because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an
understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are
similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down
arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing.  There are other
things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.
My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly
disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is
because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by
wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible
interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't
received proper instruction and because they have heard so many
negative comments about from others who haven't received proper
instruction.  And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become
more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because
they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear
itself, as was famously said.
If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same
strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the
person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging
many people from learning.  If you can find instances where I have
viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong
feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons
which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,.
What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this?  I don't make up
widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious
problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped
releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of
further corrections and testing.  And there have been two such bad
upgrades in the last eighteen months.  I don't think the last one was
nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among
users.  While the number of people asking about problems after a
Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate
that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows,
where service packs were released far more infrequently and people
didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour,
upgrading Windows twice a year.
What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone
who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it
is a matter of fact?
And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10.  I simply
think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of
waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who
don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who
want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible.  If
people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine.  If
someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am
not personally criticial on a personal level.  But I think that users
should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they
currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7.  and it
also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where
support will continue longer.  It is my impression that Windows 10 is
harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking
resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10
and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus
possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind
computer users.
I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to
people upgrading on those grounds.  I haven't used Windows 10.  As far
as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface
itself is similar to Windows 7.  As far as I can tell, working with
apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface
of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my
impression is that there isn't much learning to do.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@...>
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are
uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some
say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10.

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10.  I know there were issues with 1803, but I never
experienced them.

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the
Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead
of the somewhat standard search/start menu system.

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a
lot of Word/Excel/Access features.  Yet, I muddle through and am able
to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a
cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old
pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus.

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by
sighted people as well.  This is so much so that there are ribbon
disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not
intended solely for the  blind.



On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:

This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and
why I object to Windows 10 strongly.  It also discusses how my
objection is related to screen-reader development.  In my opinion,
Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount
of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes
that affect accessibility.
At some point, you will have little choice.  Increasingly fewer
programs will be supported in XP.  Your old browsers will work with
fewer and fewer sites.  If you need something new like a printer, no
new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers.  When XP
will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I
don't know.
My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades
per year.  Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two
major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if
there ar no problems. Before Windows 10, there were service packs
spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of
Windows 7, there was only one.  I very much object to Microsoft
imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on
users.  And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to
constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending
changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility.  Lee releases one
release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@...>
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change.  I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired.  But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no issues.  If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely.  But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal.  I bet you would get used to it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:

i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!

On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@...

<mailto:nedster66@...>> wrote:

Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using

it you

are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now

I;m on ten

I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it

or not I

had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: zahra
Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another
operating
systems!

On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
<perry.simm@...

<mailto:perry.simm@...>> wrote:

Hi!

On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...

<mailto:nasrinkhaksar3@...>> wrote:

notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).

Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the

internet in

any
way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for
it.
Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
Cheers Perry

--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"