Date   

Re: Is the windows10 version of itunes accessible with NVDA?

Arlene
 

It should go away for windows not the Mac.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Hope Williamson
Sent: July 13, 2019 3:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is the windows10 version of itunes accessible with NVDA?

 

iTunes will only be going away for the Mac. It’s still going to be lingering for windows unfortunately. https://www.macrumors.com/2019/06/04/itunes-for-windows-is-sticking-around/

 


Re: Is the windows10 version of itunes accessible with NVDA?

Hope Williamson <hopeisjoyful@...>
 

iTunes will only be going away for the Mac. It’s still going to be lingering for windows unfortunately. https://www.macrumors.com/2019/06/04/itunes-for-windows-is-sticking-around/


Re: Editing a Cell in Microsoft Excel

 

See:  
nvda not reading letters in excel cell when using f2 to edit the cell contents
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Editing a Cell in Microsoft Excel

Greg Rhodes <gkrhodes@...>
 

I’m using latest version of NVDA, Windows 10 , and Office 2016. F2 is working for me. Cursor is always at end of what is in the cell. If NVDA isn’t speaking when you arrow back through cell contents, try doing an Alt/Tab to get out of and then again to get back into the Excel program. See if that gets NVDA speaking the cell contents while using F2 command.


decTalk speak windows and NVDA

Josh Kennedy
 

Hi

The decTalk speak demo window applications are not accessible with NVDA, but they work with jaws. I think it’s the kind of edit box. Can this please be fixed? Error log is below.

INFO - __main__ (16:20:38.780):

Starting NVDA

INFO - core.main (16:20:39.201):

Config dir: C:\Users\Josh\AppData\Roaming\nvda

INFO - config.ConfigManager._loadConfig (16:20:39.201):

Loading config: C:\Users\Josh\AppData\Roaming\nvda\nvda.ini

IO - speech.speak (16:26:44.668):

Speaking [u'Categories:  list']

IO - speech.speak (16:26:44.674):

Speaking [u'General  1 of 14']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:45.079):

Input: kb(laptop):shift+tab

IO - speech.speak (16:26:45.184):

Speaking [u'Apply  button']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:45.313):

Input: kb(laptop):shift+tab

IO - speech.speak (16:26:45.394):

Speaking [u'Cancel  button']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:45.678):

Input: kb(laptop):shift+tab

IO - speech.speak (16:26:45.795):

Speaking [u'OK  button']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:46.174):

Input: kb(laptop):space

IO - speech.speak (16:26:46.214):

Speaking [u'pressed']

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:26:46.233):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05688580>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05688580>: 0}

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:26:46.315):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05688580>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05688580>: 1}

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:26:46.315):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05688580>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05688580>: 1}

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:26:46.323):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05688580>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05688580>: 1}

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:26:46.323):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05688580>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05688580>: 1}

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:26:46.334):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05688580>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05688580>: 1}

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:26:46.344):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05688580>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05688580>: 1}

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:26:46.354):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05688580>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05688580>: 1}

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:26:46.404):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05688580>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05688580>: 1}

IO - speech.speak (16:26:47.015):

Speaking [u'440  window']

IO - speech.speak (16:26:47.039):

Speaking [u'Items View  list']

IO - speech.speak (16:26:47.066):

Speaking [u'speak440.exe  7 of 7']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:48.463):

Input: kb(laptop):NVDA+n

DEBUG - gui.MainFrame.evaluateUpdatePendingUpdateMenuItemCommand (16:26:48.487):

Error while removing  pending update menu item

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "gui\__init__.pyo", line 233, in evaluateUpdatePendingUpdateMenuItemCommand

wxAssertionError: C++ assertion "node" failed at ..\..\src\msw\menu.cpp(890) in wxMenu::DoRemove(): bug in wxMenu::Remove logic

IO - speech.speak (16:26:48.668):

Speaking [u'NVDA  menu']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:49.467):

Input: kb(laptop):p

IO - speech.speak (16:26:49.588):

Speaking [u'Settings...  s  1 of 4']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:49.898):

Input: kb(laptop):enter

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.__new__ (16:26:49.918):

Creating new settings dialog (multiInstanceAllowed:False). State of _instances {}

IO - speech.speak (16:26:50.944):

Speaking [u'NVDA Settings: General (normal configuration)  dialog']

IO - speech.speak (16:26:50.944):

Speaking [u'Categories:  list']

IO - speech.speak (16:26:50.960):

Speaking [u'General  1 of 14']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:52.256):

Input: kb(laptop):a

IO - speech.speak (16:26:52.714):

Speaking [u'Advanced  13 of 14']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:53.214):

Input: kb(laptop):tab

IO - speech.speak (16:26:53.375):

Speaking [u'Advanced  property page  Warning!\nThe following settings are for advanced users. Changing them may cause NVDA to function incorrectly. Please only change these if you know what you are doing or have been specifically instructed by NVDA developers.']

IO - speech.speak (16:26:53.395):

Speaking [u'I understand that changing these settings may cause NVDA to function incorrectly.  check box  not checked']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:53.615):

Input: kb(laptop):space

IO - speech.speak (16:26:53.676):

Speaking [u'checked']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:53.915):

Input: kb(laptop):tab

IO - speech.speak (16:26:54.055):

Speaking [u'Restore defaults  button']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:54.115):

Input: kb(laptop):tab

IO - speech.speak (16:26:54.246):

Speaking [u'NVDA Development  grouping']

IO - speech.speak (16:26:54.250):

Speaking [u'Enable loading custom code from Developer Scratchpad directory  check box  not checked']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:54.325):

Input: kb(laptop):tab

IO - speech.speak (16:26:54.430):

Speaking [u'Microsoft UI Automation  grouping']

IO - speech.speak (16:26:54.436):

Speaking [u'Use UI Automation to access Microsoft Word document controls when available  check box  not checked  Alt+w']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:54.496):

Input: kb(laptop):tab

IO - speech.speak (16:26:54.555):

Speaking [u'Use UI Automation to access the Windows Console when available  check box  not checked']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:54.858):

Input: kb(laptop):tab

IO - speech.speak (16:26:54.976):

Speaking [u'Speak passwords in UIA consoles (may improve performance)  check box  not checked  Alt+p']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:55.855):

Input: kb(laptop):tab

IO - speech.speak (16:26:56.040):

Speaking [u'Browse mode  grouping']

IO - speech.speak (16:26:56.046):

Speaking [u'Automatically set system focus to focusable elements  check box  not checked  Alt+f']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:56.895):

Input: kb(laptop):shift+tab

IO - speech.speak (16:26:57.036):

Speaking [u'Microsoft UI Automation  grouping']

IO - speech.speak (16:26:57.040):

Speaking [u'Speak passwords in UIA consoles (may improve performance)  check box  not checked  Alt+p']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:57.210):

Input: kb(laptop):shift+tab

IO - speech.speak (16:26:57.296):

Speaking [u'Use UI Automation to access the Windows Console when available  check box  not checked']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:57.430):

Input: kb(laptop):shift+tab

IO - speech.speak (16:26:57.526):

Speaking [u'Use UI Automation to access Microsoft Word document controls when available  check box  not checked  Alt+w']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:57.835):

Input: kb(laptop):shift+tab

IO - speech.speak (16:26:57.964):

Speaking [u'NVDA Development  grouping']

IO - speech.speak (16:26:57.974):

Speaking [u'Enable loading custom code from Developer Scratchpad directory  check box  not checked']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:59.288):

Input: kb(laptop):tab

IO - speech.speak (16:26:59.405):

Speaking [u'Microsoft UI Automation  grouping']

IO - speech.speak (16:26:59.411):

Speaking [u'Use UI Automation to access Microsoft Word document controls when available  check box  not checked  Alt+w']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:26:59.766):

Input: kb(laptop):space

IO - speech.speak (16:26:59.855):

Speaking [u'checked']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:00.121):

Input: kb(laptop):tab

IO - speech.speak (16:27:00.206):

Speaking [u'Use UI Automation to access the Windows Console when available  check box  not checked']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:00.311):

Input: kb(laptop):space

IO - speech.speak (16:27:00.395):

Speaking [u'checked']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:00.536):

Input: kb(laptop):tab

IO - speech.speak (16:27:00.595):

Speaking [u'Speak passwords in UIA consoles (may improve performance)  check box  not checked  Alt+p']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:00.716):

Input: kb(laptop):space

IO - speech.speak (16:27:00.786):

Speaking [u'checked']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:00.956):

Input: kb(laptop):tab

IO - speech.speak (16:27:01.075):

Speaking [u'Browse mode  grouping']

IO - speech.speak (16:27:01.075):

Speaking [u'Automatically set system focus to focusable elements  check box  not checked  Alt+f']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:02.821):

Input: kb(laptop):tab

IO - speech.speak (16:27:03.016):

Speaking [u'Editable Text  grouping']

IO - speech.speak (16:27:03.026):

Speaking [u'Caret movement timeout (in ms)  edit']

IO - speech.speak (16:27:03.026):

Speaking [u'selected 100']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:03.341):

Input: kb(laptop):shift+tab

IO - speech.speak (16:27:03.510):

Speaking [u'Browse mode  grouping']

IO - speech.speak (16:27:03.516):

Speaking [u'Automatically set system focus to focusable elements  check box  not checked  Alt+f']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:03.769):

Input: kb(laptop):space

IO - speech.speak (16:27:03.861):

Speaking [u'checked']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:04.085):

Input: kb(laptop):space

IO - speech.speak (16:27:04.165):

Speaking [u'not checked']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:04.385):

Input: kb(laptop):tab

IO - speech.speak (16:27:04.576):

Speaking [u'Editable Text  grouping']

IO - speech.speak (16:27:04.585):

Speaking [u'Caret movement timeout (in ms)  edit']

IO - speech.speak (16:27:04.595):

Speaking [u'selected 100']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:05.381):

Input: kb(laptop):backspace

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:05.581):

Input: kb(laptop):backspace

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:05.782):

Input: kb(laptop):backspace

IO - speech.speak (16:27:05.801):

Speaking [u'selection removed']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:05.944):

Input: kb(laptop):backspace

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:06.131):

Input: kb(laptop):delete

DEBUG - editableText.EditableText._hasCaretMoved (16:27:06.348):

Caret didn't move before timeout. Elapsed: 100 ms

IO - speech.speak (16:27:06.348):

Speaking [u'blank']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:06.450):

Input: kb(laptop):delete

DEBUG - editableText.EditableText._hasCaretMoved (16:27:06.687):

Caret didn't move before timeout. Elapsed: 100 ms

IO - speech.speak (16:27:06.690):

Speaking [u'blank']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:07.424):

Input: kb(laptop):5

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:07.490):

Input: kb(laptop):0

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:07.773):

Input: kb(laptop):tab

IO - speech.speak (16:27:08.052):

Speaking [u'Debug logging  grouping']

IO - speech.speak (16:27:08.052):

Speaking [u'Enabled logging categories  list']

IO - speech.speak (16:27:08.068):

Speaking [u'hwIo  check box  selected  not checked  1 of 5']

IO - speech.speak (16:27:08.082):

Speaking [u'hwIo  check box  selected  not checked  1 of 5']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:08.473):

Input: kb(laptop):downArrow

IO - speech.speak (16:27:08.602):

Speaking [u'audioDucking  check box  selected  not checked  2 of 5']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:08.743):

Input: kb(laptop):upArrow

IO - speech.speak (16:27:08.872):

Speaking [u'hwIo  check box  selected  not checked  1 of 5']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:09.842):

Input: kb(laptop):upArrow

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:10.207):

Input: kb(laptop):space

IO - speech.speak (16:27:10.257):

Speaking [u'checked']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:10.543):

Input: kb(laptop):downArrow

IO - speech.speak (16:27:10.634):

Speaking [u'audioDucking  check box  selected  not checked  2 of 5']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:11.003):

Input: kb(laptop):space

IO - speech.speak (16:27:11.055):

Speaking [u'checked']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:11.311):

Input: kb(laptop):downArrow

IO - speech.speak (16:27:11.384):

Speaking [u'gui  check box  selected  not checked  3 of 5']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:11.688):

Input: kb(laptop):space

IO - speech.speak (16:27:11.733):

Speaking [u'checked']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:11.944):

Input: kb(laptop):downArrow

IO - speech.speak (16:27:12.073):

Speaking [u'louis  check box  selected  not checked  4 of 5']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:12.362):

Input: kb(laptop):space

IO - speech.speak (16:27:12.414):

Speaking [u'checked']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:12.654):

Input: kb(laptop):downArrow

IO - speech.speak (16:27:12.763):

Speaking [u'timeSinceInput  check box  selected  not checked  5 of 5']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:13.068):

Input: kb(laptop):space

IO - speech.speak (16:27:13.134):

Speaking [u'checked']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:13.444):

Input: kb(laptop):downArrow

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:13.859):

Input: kb(laptop):tab

IO - speech.speak (16:27:13.997):

Speaking [u'OK  button']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:14.068):

Input: kb(laptop):tab

IO - speech.speak (16:27:14.121):

Speaking [u'Cancel  button']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:14.252):

Input: kb(laptop):tab

IO - speech.speak (16:27:14.346):

Speaking [u'Apply  button']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:14.437):

Input: kb(laptop):enter

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.AdvancedPanelControls.onSave (16:27:14.437):

Saving advanced config

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:14.471):

disabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:14.476):

Queuing _unensureDucked

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:14.486):

Ignoring duplicate disable

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:14.496):

0.060 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:14.502):

Speaking [u'Categories:  list']

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:14.506):

0.070 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:14.506):

Speaking [u'Advanced  13 of 14']

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:14.506):

enabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._ensureDucked (16:27:14.506):

Increased ref count, _duckingRefCount=5

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:14.506):

whenWasDucked 1563049634.51, deltaMS -1563049634356

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:14.526):

Decreased  ref count, _duckingRefCount=4

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:14.542):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:14.858):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:15.138):

Decreased  ref count, _duckingRefCount=3

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:15.157):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:15.338):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:15.387):

Decreased  ref count, _duckingRefCount=2

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:15.447):

disabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:15.447):

Queuing _unensureDucked

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:15.486):

Input: kb(laptop):shift+tab

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:15.542):

Ignoring duplicate disable

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:15.546):

Ignoring duplicate disable

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:15.566):

0.080 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:15.566):

Speaking [u'Apply  button']

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:15.576):

enabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._ensureDucked (16:27:15.576):

Increased ref count, _duckingRefCount=3

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:15.576):

whenWasDucked 1563049635.58, deltaMS -1563049635426

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:15.576):

Decreased  ref count, _duckingRefCount=2

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:15.607):

ignoring duplicate enable

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:15.819):

Input: kb(laptop):space

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:15.848):

disabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:15.848):

Queuing _unensureDucked

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:15.857):

0.037 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:15.857):

Speaking [u'pressed']

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:15.868):

Ignoring duplicate disable

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.AdvancedPanelControls.onSave (16:27:15.877):

Saving advanced config

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:15.887):

enabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._ensureDucked (16:27:15.887):

Increased ref count, _duckingRefCount=3

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:15.887):

whenWasDucked 1563049635.89, deltaMS -1563049635737

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:15.927):

ignoring duplicate enable

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:15.961):

0.142 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:15.967):

Speaking [u'Categories:  list']

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:15.967):

0.147 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:15.967):

Speaking [u'Advanced  13 of 14']

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:16.207):

disabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:16.207):

Queuing _unensureDucked

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:16.246):

Input: kb(laptop):shift+tab

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:16.306):

Ignoring duplicate disable

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:16.316):

Ignoring duplicate disable

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:16.326):

0.080 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:16.326):

Speaking [u'Apply  button']

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:16.338):

enabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._ensureDucked (16:27:16.338):

Increased ref count, _duckingRefCount=4

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:16.338):

whenWasDucked 1563049636.34, deltaMS -1563049636189

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:16.367):

ignoring duplicate enable

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:16.447):

Input: kb(laptop):shift+tab

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:16.512):

disabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:16.512):

Queuing _unensureDucked

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:16.526):

Ignoring duplicate disable

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:16.548):

0.100 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:16.548):

Speaking [u'Cancel  button']

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:16.556):

Decreased  ref count, _duckingRefCount=3

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:16.556):

enabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._ensureDucked (16:27:16.556):

Increased ref count, _duckingRefCount=4

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:16.556):

whenWasDucked 1563049636.56, deltaMS -1563049636406

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:16.586):

ignoring duplicate enable

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:16.637):

Input: kb(laptop):shift+tab

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:16.671):

disabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:16.677):

Queuing _unensureDucked

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:16.687):

Ignoring duplicate disable

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:16.697):

0.060 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:16.697):

Speaking [u'OK  button']

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:16.707):

enabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._ensureDucked (16:27:16.707):

Increased ref count, _duckingRefCount=5

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:16.707):

whenWasDucked 1563049636.71, deltaMS -1563049636557

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:16.740):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:16.887):

Decreased  ref count, _duckingRefCount=4

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:17.006):

Input: kb(laptop):space

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:17.026):

disabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:17.036):

Queuing _unensureDucked

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:17.040):

0.034 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:17.040):

Speaking [u'pressed']

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:17.056):

Ignoring duplicate disable

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.AdvancedPanelControls.onSave (16:27:17.056):

Saving advanced config

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:27:17.066):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>: 0}

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:17.066):

enabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._ensureDucked (16:27:17.066):

Increased ref count, _duckingRefCount=5

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:17.066):

whenWasDucked 1563049637.07, deltaMS -1563049636916

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:27:17.096):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>: 1}

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:17.107):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:27:17.157):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>: 1}

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:27:17.157):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>: 1}

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:27:17.167):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>: 1}

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:27:17.167):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>: 1}

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:27:17.177):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>: 1}

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:27:17.187):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>: 1}

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:27:17.187):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>: 1}

DEBUG - gui.settingsDialogs.SettingsDialog._setInstanceDestroyedState (16:27:17.240):

Setting state to destroyed for instance: <gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>

Current _instances {<gui.settingsDialogs.NVDASettingsDialog object at 0x05534E40>: 1}

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:17.457):

Decreased  ref count, _duckingRefCount=4

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:17.598):

Decreased  ref count, _duckingRefCount=3

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:17.826):

disabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:17.826):

Queuing _unensureDucked

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:17.836):

Ignoring duplicate disable

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:17.836):

0.830 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:17.836):

Speaking [u'440  window']

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:17.846):

enabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._ensureDucked (16:27:17.846):

Increased ref count, _duckingRefCount=4

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:17.846):

whenWasDucked 1563049637.85, deltaMS -1563049637696

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:17.851):

0.845 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:17.851):

Speaking [u'Items View  list']

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:17.868):

ignoring duplicate enable

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:17.884):

0.877 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:17.884):

Speaking [u'speak440.exe  7 of 7']

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:17.920):

Decreased  ref count, _duckingRefCount=3

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:18.069):

Decreased  ref count, _duckingRefCount=2

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:18.194):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:18.490):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:18.569):

disabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:18.569):

Queuing _unensureDucked

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:18.599):

Ignoring duplicate disable

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:18.651):

Input: kb(laptop):alt+NVDA+c

DEBUG - fileUtils.FaultTolerantFile (16:27:18.670):

C:\Users\Josh\AppData\Roaming\nvda\nvda.initk4s8w.tmp

INFO - config.ConfigManager.save (16:27:18.799):

Base configuration saved

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:18.829):

0.178 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:18.829):

Speaking [u'Configuration saved']

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:18.839):

enabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._ensureDucked (16:27:18.839):

Increased ref count, _duckingRefCount=3

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:18.839):

whenWasDucked 1563049638.84, deltaMS -1563049638689

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:18.869):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:18.930):

Decreased  ref count, _duckingRefCount=2

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:19.180):

ignoring duplicate enable

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:19.240):

Input: kb(laptop):upArrow

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:19.289):

disabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:19.289):

Queuing _unensureDucked

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:19.299):

Ignoring duplicate disable

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:19.480):

Input: kb(laptop):downArrow

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:19.599):

Decreased  ref count, _duckingRefCount=1

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:20.256):

Input: kb(laptop):upArrow

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:20.378):

Decreased  ref count, _duckingRefCount=0

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:20.525):

0.284 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:20.525):

Speaking [u'README.TXT  6 of 7']

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:20.540):

enabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._ensureDucked (16:27:20.540):

Increased ref count, _duckingRefCount=1

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:20.540):

whenWasDucked 1563049640.54, deltaMS -1563049640390

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:20.578):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:20.898):

ignoring duplicate enable

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:20.901):

Input: kb(laptop):downArrow

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:20.921):

disabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:20.921):

Queuing _unensureDucked

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:20.941):

Ignoring duplicate disable

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:21.211):

0.310 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:21.211):

Speaking [u'speak440.exe  7 of 7']

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:21.220):

enabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._ensureDucked (16:27:21.220):

Increased ref count, _duckingRefCount=2

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:21.220):

whenWasDucked 1563049641.22, deltaMS -1563049641070

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:21.250):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:21.572):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:21.872):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:21.951):

Decreased  ref count, _duckingRefCount=1

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:22.173):

ignoring duplicate enable

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:22.246):

Input: kb(laptop):downArrow

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:22.282):

disabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:22.282):

Queuing _unensureDucked

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:22.302):

Ignoring duplicate disable

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:23.296):

Decreased  ref count, _duckingRefCount=0

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:23.786):

Input: kb(laptop):enter

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:24.792):

1.006 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:24.796):

Speaking [u'DTdemo - Demo.en']

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:24.805):

enabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._ensureDucked (16:27:24.805):

Increased ref count, _duckingRefCount=1

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:24.816):

whenWasDucked 1563049644.82, deltaMS -1563049644666

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:24.832):

1.046 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:24.832):

Speaking [u'edit  multi line']

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:24.845):

1.060 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:24.845):

Speaking [u'blank']

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:24.855):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:25.177):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:25.476):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:25.638):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:25.937):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:26.236):

ignoring duplicate enable

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:26.917):

Input: kb(laptop):upArrow

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:26.947):

disabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:26.947):

Queuing _unensureDucked

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:26.967):

Ignoring duplicate disable

DEBUG - editableText.EditableText._hasCaretMoved (16:27:27.069):

Caret didn't move before timeout. Elapsed: 50 ms

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:27.076):

0.160 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:27.086):

Speaking [u'blank']

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:27.101):

enabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._ensureDucked (16:27:27.105):

Increased ref count, _duckingRefCount=2

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:27.105):

whenWasDucked 1563049647.11, deltaMS -1563049646955

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:27.155):

ignoring duplicate enable

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:27.835):

Input: kb(laptop):downArrow

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:27.846):

disabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:27.846):

Queuing _unensureDucked

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:27.867):

Ignoring duplicate disable

DEBUG - editableText.EditableText._hasCaretMoved (16:27:27.887):

Caret move detected using bookmarks. Elapsed: 0 ms

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:27.898):

0.064 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:27.898):

Speaking [u'blank']

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:27.915):

enabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._ensureDucked (16:27:27.915):

Increased ref count, _duckingRefCount=3

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:27.915):

whenWasDucked 1563049647.92, deltaMS -1563049647765

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:27.961):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:27.996):

Decreased  ref count, _duckingRefCount=2

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:28.232):

Input: kb(laptop):upArrow

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:28.246):

disabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:28.256):

Queuing _unensureDucked

DEBUG - editableText.EditableText._hasCaretMoved (16:27:28.276):

Caret move detected using bookmarks. Elapsed: 0 ms

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:28.286):

Ignoring duplicate disable

IO - inputCore.logTimeSinceInput (16:27:28.299):

0.072 sec since input

IO - speech.speak (16:27:28.299):

Speaking [u'blank']

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:28.312):

enabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._ensureDucked (16:27:28.316):

Increased ref count, _duckingRefCount=3

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:28.316):

whenWasDucked 1563049648.32, deltaMS -1563049648166

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.enable (16:27:28.357):

ignoring duplicate enable

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:28.891):

Decreased  ref count, _duckingRefCount=2

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:29.286):

Decreased  ref count, _duckingRefCount=1

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:34.427):

disabling

DEBUG - audioDucking._unensureDucked (16:27:34.427):

Queuing _unensureDucked

DEBUG - audioDucking.AudioDucker.disable (16:27:34.441):

Ignoring duplicate disable

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (16:27:34.657):

Input: kb(laptop):NVDA+f1

INFO - globalCommands.GlobalCommands.script_navigatorObject_devInfo (16:27:34.996):

Developer info for navigator object:

name: None

role: ROLE_EDITABLETEXT

states: STATE_MULTILINE, STATE_FOCUSABLE, STATE_FOCUSED

isFocusable: True

hasFocus: True

Python object: <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_IAccessibleEditWindowNVDAObject object at 0x055B43D0>

Python class mro: (<class 'NVDAObjects.Dynamic_IAccessibleEditWindowNVDAObject'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.window.edit.Edit'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.behaviors.EditableTextWithAutoSelectDetection'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.behaviors.EditableText'>, <class 'editableText.EditableText'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.window.Window'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.NVDAObject'>, <class 'documentBase.TextContainerObject'>, <class 'baseObject.ScriptableObject'>, <class 'baseObject.AutoPropertyObject'>, <type 'object'>)

description: None

location: RectLTWH(left=12, top=119, width=563, height=286)

value: u''

appModule: <'appModuleHandler' (appName u'speak440', process ID 2928) at address 558abb0>

appModule.productName: exception: No version information

appModule.productVersion: exception: No version information

TextInfo: <class 'NVDAObjects.window.edit.EditTextInfo'>

windowHandle: 1246026

windowClassName: u'Edit'

windowControlID: 0

windowStyle: 1345323492

extendedWindowStyle: 0

windowThreadID: 3128

windowText: u''

displayText: u"[:NP]Greetings human.  [:nr]this is dectalk, [:nk]We were created by one like you called Dennis Klatt.  [:nf]Creatures like you can find out more on Dectalk by going to thefollowing website.  This isn't what you type but it's how itsounds.www dot blu" (truncated)

IAccessibleObject: <POINTER(IAccessible) ptr=0x7521310 at 55ba3a0>

IAccessibleChildID: 0

IAccessible event parameters: windowHandle=1246026, objectID=-4, childID=0

IAccessible accName: None

IAccessible accRole: ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT

IAccessible accState: STATE_SYSTEM_FOCUSED, STATE_SYSTEM_FOCUSABLE, STATE_SYSTEM_VALID (1048580)

IAccessible accDescription: None

IAccessible accValue: u''

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Anyone having trouble with NVDA remote?

Mobeen Iqbal
 

Hello Everyone.

Running NVDA 2019.1.1 with windows 10 1809. NVDA remote was working fine up until a few days ago. It's no longer working for me. I've tried disabling all of my add-ons and just leaving NVDA remote enabled to rule out an add-on conflict all to no avail. When I try to go in to remote options or connect, I don't get any dialogue displayed. Anyone got any ideas?

Cheers,

Mo.


locked Re: Lags With Notepad++

 

This topic is now locked.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Add-on Updater 19.07.2 #addonrelease

 

Hi all,

 

Add-on Updater 19.07.2 is on its way. This one registers Developer Toolkit from Andy B to add-on update facility. Depending on which Windows version you’re using and you have opted into notification experiment, NVDA will either present a dialog or a toast notification.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


locked Re: Lags With Notepad++

Gene
 

Show me any specific message or messages that attack people or imply they are stupid.  You have the entire archive at your disposal.  Either provide specifics or stop repeating your charge.  I do not talk down to people.  And this isn't a case like Windows ME.  It is a case where people are upgrading computers that work well.  In the case of Windows ME, my bet is that most people used Windows 98 if they already had it. 
 
Why do you mention XP?  That system works well. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2019 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

And while there have been issues with Windows 10 and Microsoft releasing it in a damaged or dysfunctional condition, this isn't the first time they have done this and I never remember you saying not to upgrade to any other system.  Remember Windows ME?  How about XP itself which was supposed to run every program going back to DOS 5.0 when it was first being developed that didn't even have a true DOS interface? 

Constantly telling people that they're effectively lacking in knowledge (coming off some times as if saying they were stupid) is not a good way to educate people asking for advice.


On 7/13/2019 8:24 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Well, this rant--long as usual--and very legalistic sounding--sounds like some of the arguments we are getting out of Washington these days.  My lack of advancement is justified but yours isn't!

Apparently you forget the go round we had over ribbons where I pointed out how an aspect of Excel that was very easy to do using the old menus lasted for about 3 days with over 20 exchanges.  Long story short, you finally had to admit that it was an accessibility issue in Excel that wasn't existing in the old menus system.  I could have further deconstructed your arguments back then a couple of years ago, but I gave up after 3 days. 

You come on at times like a defense lawyer arguing a case in court rather than an adviser of people who are on a list--some of them newbies who are afraid (as I was once) to try new things.



On 7/13/2019 5:56 AM, Gene wrote:
Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone.  I do not.  but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc.  That's because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing.  There are other things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.  My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't received proper instruction and because they have heard so many negative comments about from others who haven't received proper instruction.  And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear itself, as was famously said.
 
If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging many people from learning.  If you can find instances where I have viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,. 
 
What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this?  I don't make up widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of further corrections and testing.  And there have been two such bad upgrades in the last eighteen months.  I don't think the last one was nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among users.  While the number of people asking about problems after a Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows, where service packs were released far more infrequently and people didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour, upgrading Windows twice a year. 
 
What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it is a matter of fact? 
 
And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10.  I simply think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible.  If people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine.  If someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am not personally criticial on a personal level.  But I think that users should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7.  and it also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where support will continue longer.  It is my impression that Windows 10 is harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10 and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind computer users. 
 
I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to people upgrading on those grounds.  I haven't used Windows 10.  As far as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface itself is similar to Windows 7.  As far as I can tell, working with apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my impression is that there isn't much learning to do.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10. 

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10.  I know there were issues with 1803, but I never experienced them. 

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead of the somewhat standard search/start menu system. 

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a lot of Word/Excel/Access features.  Yet, I muddle through and am able to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus. 

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by sighted people as well.  This is so much so that there are ribbon disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not intended solely for the  blind.



On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:
This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and why I object to Windows 10 strongly.  It also discusses how my objection is related to screen-reader development.  In my opinion, Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes that affect accessibility.
 
At some point, you will have little choice.  Increasingly fewer programs will be supported in XP.  Your old browsers will work with fewer and fewer sites.  If you need something new like a printer, no new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers.  When XP will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I don't know. 
 
My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades per year.  Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if there ar no problems.  Before Windows 10, there were service packs spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of Windows 7, there was only one.  I very much object to Microsoft imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on users.  And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility.  Lee releases one release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change.  I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired.  But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no issues.  If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely.  But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal.  I bet you would get used to it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:
> i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!
>
> On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@...> wrote:
>> Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using it you
>> are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now I;m on ten
>> I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it or not I
>> had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: zahra
>> Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++
>>
>> xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
>> versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another operating
>> systems!
>>
>> On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
>> <perry.simm@...> wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
>>>> favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
>>> Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the internet in
>>> any
>>> way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for it.
>>> Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
>>> Cheers Perry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> By God,
>> were I given all the seven heavens
>> with all they contain
>> in order that
>> I may disobey God
>> by depriving an ant
>> from the husk of a grain of barley,
>> I would not do it.
>> imam ali
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


locked Re: Lags With Notepad++

Gene
 

I didn't say that people shouldn't use Windows 10.  I didn't say the interface is a problem.  I seriously question the advisability of people upgrading to Windows 10 from Windows 7 or 8 if they are satisfied with them for technical reasons I've given 
 
You point out one problem with Excel and somehow criticize me for taking awhile to say that it is an accessibility problem.  Once the discussion established that it was, I said it was.  I don't use Excel and couldn't test myself.  That has nothing to do with ribbons per se.  It is one accessibility problem with one feature on one program.  Discourage people from learning things?  The whole reason I vigorously disagree with those who talk about how difficult ribbons are to use ist to encourage people to learn new things.
 
And I'm sure I didn't attack you at any time during our discussion, just as I am not now.  I do disagree vigorously with people who say, ribbons are terrible, or such general statements.  Why?  Because I want to encourage people to learn things.
 
My Windows 10 position has nothing to do with any general disposition about wanting or not wanting people to learn new things.  It is because I believe there are problems with the way Microsoft administers Windows 10, two upgrades a year when I don't think it can adequately test two upgrades a year before release to avoid problems that may be serious.  Or if it can, it hasn't been doing so properly.  And if you look at technology articles, many writers are unhappy with the Windows 10 upgrades.
 
And I never say to people, don't buy a new computer with Windows 10 already on it.  I'm talking solely about upgrading machines that people are satisfied with.
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2019 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Well, this rant--long as usual--and very legalistic sounding--sounds like some of the arguments we are getting out of Washington these days.  My lack of advancement is justified but yours isn't!

Apparently you forget the go round we had over ribbons where I pointed out how an aspect of Excel that was very easy to do using the old menus lasted for about 3 days with over 20 exchanges.  Long story short, you finally had to admit that it was an accessibility issue in Excel that wasn't existing in the old menus system.  I could have further deconstructed your arguments back then a couple of years ago, but I gave up after 3 days. 

You come on at times like a defense lawyer arguing a case in court rather than an adviser of people who are on a list--some of them newbies who are afraid (as I was once) to try new things.



On 7/13/2019 5:56 AM, Gene wrote:
Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone.  I do not.  but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc.  That's because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing.  There are other things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.  My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't received proper instruction and because they have heard so many negative comments about from others who haven't received proper instruction.  And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear itself, as was famously said.
 
If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging many people from learning.  If you can find instances where I have viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,. 
 
What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this?  I don't make up widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of further corrections and testing.  And there have been two such bad upgrades in the last eighteen months.  I don't think the last one was nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among users.  While the number of people asking about problems after a Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows, where service packs were released far more infrequently and people didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour, upgrading Windows twice a year. 
 
What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it is a matter of fact? 
 
And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10.  I simply think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible.  If people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine.  If someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am not personally criticial on a personal level.  But I think that users should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7.  and it also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where support will continue longer.  It is my impression that Windows 10 is harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10 and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind computer users. 
 
I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to people upgrading on those grounds.  I haven't used Windows 10.  As far as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface itself is similar to Windows 7.  As far as I can tell, working with apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my impression is that there isn't much learning to do.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10. 

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10.  I know there were issues with 1803, but I never experienced them. 

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead of the somewhat standard search/start menu system. 

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a lot of Word/Excel/Access features.  Yet, I muddle through and am able to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus. 

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by sighted people as well.  This is so much so that there are ribbon disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not intended solely for the  blind.



On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:
This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and why I object to Windows 10 strongly.  It also discusses how my objection is related to screen-reader development.  In my opinion, Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes that affect accessibility.
 
At some point, you will have little choice.  Increasingly fewer programs will be supported in XP.  Your old browsers will work with fewer and fewer sites.  If you need something new like a printer, no new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers.  When XP will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I don't know. 
 
My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades per year.  Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if there ar no problems.  Before Windows 10, there were service packs spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of Windows 7, there was only one.  I very much object to Microsoft imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on users.  And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility.  Lee releases one release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change.  I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired.  But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no issues.  If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely.  But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal.  I bet you would get used to it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:
> i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!
>
> On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@...> wrote:
>> Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using it you
>> are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now I;m on ten
>> I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it or not I
>> had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: zahra
>> Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++
>>
>> xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
>> versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another operating
>> systems!
>>
>> On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
>> <perry.simm@...> wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
>>>> favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
>>> Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the internet in
>>> any
>>> way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for it.
>>> Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
>>> Cheers Perry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> By God,
>> were I given all the seven heavens
>> with all they contain
>> in order that
>> I may disobey God
>> by depriving an ant
>> from the husk of a grain of barley,
>> I would not do it.
>> imam ali
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Is the windows10 version of itunes accessible with NVDA?

brandon
 

The current version of Itunes at least of my computer is accessible until I want to grab something from the store. It seems to lag and use a lot of my processing power and it takes forever to see what is on the store page.

That is why I was wondering if the windows store version of Itunes would be better.

Thanks.

Brandon


On 7/13/2019 1:30 AM, Robert Doc Wright godfearer wrote:

iTunes is useful and accessible. Where have you been having problems? I use it all the time.

 

                                                                                                                                If all I have left in this world is God, I have everything!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: brandon
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 10:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Is the windows10 version of itunes accessible with NVDA?

 

Hi all,

 

 

I have been trying to get the most current version of Itunes to work

well on my computer. It seems that they don't want to play nice right

now NVDA and itunes both are very sluggish and both processor intensive.

 

I was wondering since there is a itunes for windows 10 if that would

work well with nvda rather then the current non-windows 10 verson.

 

Thanks for your assistance.

 

Brandon

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Editing a Cell in Microsoft Excel

Sarah k Alawami
 

Isn't there a setting in nvda that talks about excel and editing cells? I can't remember but a search of the archive should be able to help you a bit. If not the setting might be in NVDa. I don't use excel, nor do I ever hope to, at least not right now.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 13 Jul 2019, at 5:36, "Marvin Atkins" wrote:

Ed,

One thing I always check when F2 doesn't work is to make sure the excel screen is maximized.

-----Original Message----- From: Ed Marquette
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2019 3:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Editing a Cell in Microsoft Excel

All:

I’m not an expert Excel user, but I am not a novice either. I’ve been using Excel 2013 until about three weeks ago.
To edit a cell, I have always just pressed F-2. Since moving to Excel 2016 (from Office 365), this function no longer provides feedback.
In other words, after pressing F-2, NVDA is silent when using the arrow keys to locate the precise location at which to edit. One of my colleagues noted that the cursor is indeed in the edit box and that it does in fact move when the arrow keys move, but none of the text reading commands work in the edit box. My colleague, a sighted patent lawyer, was glad to hear about the F-2 function; it is much faster than the sighted world’s default way of editing cells (by using the mouse to click into the edit box after highlighting the desired cell.
So, Excel is doing what it is supposed to do with F-2. NVDA is not.
By the way JAWS has exactly the same problem. Both screen readers used to work just fine in the Excel 2013 world.
Neither works in the Excel 2016 world.
Of course, none of our IT folks has a clew. In fact, none of them had ever heard of using F-2.
By the way, I’m using a brand new Lenovo Yoga laptop and no, this isn’t related to the default function key assignments Lenovo assigns. I’m using a USB keyboard (in fact, two different USB keyboards).
Suggestions would be appreciated.

Ps
I just double-checked Quinten’s tutorial on using Excel, and he too advocates using
F-2. I’m stumped.


Re: Is the windows10 version of itunes accessible with NVDA?

Don H
 

I think I heard in the news that ITunes is going away soon.

On 7/13/2019 8:30 AM, Giles Turnbull wrote:
Hi Brandon,
I use the latest version of iTunes on a Win10 PC. iTunes is sometimes tricky to navigate but it is just a question of getting used to it. In the help menu (annoyingly the names of the menus aren't spoken for me, but by arrowing down the menu you can hear what the options are) and there is keyboard shortcuts information in the help menu, which is the furthest right menu as with most pieces of software .
I ran into trouble the other day when 3 tracks from an album I had bought would not play in WinAmp nor in iTunes ... it kept prompting me to login to iTunes but, after logging in and trying to play the track, it again took me to the login / "authorise this computer" page.
I Googled the email contact for iTunes and contacted them with the problem. I had a very good and quick response from a person on the support team. The problem didn't get sorted so he suggested I phoned and asked to speak to the technical support team, which I did. My call to them lasted for about an hour and, as we weren't getting a totally satisfactory solution (the track would play on my iPhone but not on my Windows PC in iTunes or WinAmp) I mentioned that I was blind and using NVDA ... and he put me through to a disabilities team and that team helped me re-download the tracks I'd purchased and that did fix the problematic playback issue!
The one thing I was impressed with was that I never felt I was being pushed from one team to the next ... each one tried their best to help me and, if I'd known there was a team that deals with disabled people and is aware of NVDA and JAWS, then I would probably got a quicker answer.
Often when a new version of iTunes is made available I don't tend to install it right away, just to give chance for any issues to be reported to iTunes and for them to fix them! :)
Giles


locked Re: Lags With Notepad++

Hareth
 

Hi Ron,
I don't have much trouble using ribbons.
But most of the people I give help and support do, for various reasons.
BTW, The hardest curve with them, Do to the structure, it has been
left to the interface developers and designers with each app. So
virtually to avoid a lot of tabbing away to find what you need, you
have to memorize your moves as hotkeys for the next time of same
usage.
Unlike the old menus its almost unified cross apps moves.
E.G alt+v, to the view, alt+t for tools, ETC.
That's the reason most of us prefer the classic menus.
I'm going to leave it here, as the discussion went very far, and it
changes nothing.
Regards

On 7/13/19, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Hi Harreth,

I agree with you on the ribbons, unfortunately, they're not going away
any time soon. A good source for a ribbon tutorial is Ann Parson's
audio (mp3 format) tutorials. I am not sure if those are free or not,
but I believe she posted them on the Blinds Tech list a few months ago.
Maybe she would appreciate a donation?


On 7/13/2019 8:44 AM, Hareth wrote:
greetings,
Despite the wishfully simplified some like to picture ribbons,
And Even if we mastered the use of them, They are at least disliked,
If not out-right hate to use them, that's for the most of us.
And that's the way with a lot of sighted people as well.
Plus some forgot that the ease of usage is a major factor of
accessibility
Ribbons are not, and never will be, as easy to use and memorize as the
classic menus, Plane and simple.

Regards

On 7/13/19, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Well, this rant--long as usual--and very legalistic sounding--sounds
like some of the arguments we are getting out of Washington these days.
My lack of advancement is justified but yours isn't!

Apparently you forget the go round we had over ribbons where I pointed
out how an aspect of Excel that was very easy to do using the old menus
lasted for about 3 days with over 20 exchanges. Long story short, you
finally had to admit that it was an accessibility issue in Excel that
wasn't existing in the old menus system. I could have further
deconstructed your arguments back then a couple of years ago, but I gave
up after 3 days.

You come on at times like a defense lawyer arguing a case in court
rather than an adviser of people who are on a list--some of them newbies
who are afraid (as I was once) to try new things.



On 7/13/2019 5:56 AM, Gene wrote:
Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone. I do not.
but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such
as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc. That's
because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an
understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are
similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down
arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing. There are other
things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.
My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly
disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is
because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by
wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible
interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't
received proper instruction and because they have heard so many
negative comments about from others who haven't received proper
instruction. And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become
more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because
they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear
itself, as was famously said.
If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same
strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the
person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging
many people from learning. If you can find instances where I have
viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong
feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons
which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,.
What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this? I don't make up
widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious
problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped
releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of
further corrections and testing. And there have been two such bad
upgrades in the last eighteen months. I don't think the last one was
nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among
users. While the number of people asking about problems after a
Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate
that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows,
where service packs were released far more infrequently and people
didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour,
upgrading Windows twice a year.
What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone
who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it
is a matter of fact?
And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10. I simply
think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of
waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who
don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who
want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible. If
people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine. If
someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am
not personally criticial on a personal level. But I think that users
should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they
currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7. and it
also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where
support will continue longer. It is my impression that Windows 10 is
harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking
resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10
and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus
possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind
computer users.
I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to
people upgrading on those grounds. I haven't used Windows 10. As far
as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface
itself is similar to Windows 7. As far as I can tell, working with
apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface
of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my
impression is that there isn't much learning to do.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are
uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some
say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10.

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10. I know there were issues with 1803, but I never
experienced them.

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the
Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead
of the somewhat standard search/start menu system.

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a
lot of Word/Excel/Access features. Yet, I muddle through and am able
to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a
cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old
pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus.

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by
sighted people as well. This is so much so that there are ribbon
disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not
intended solely for the blind.



On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:
This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and
why I object to Windows 10 strongly. It also discusses how my
objection is related to screen-reader development. In my opinion,
Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount
of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes
that affect accessibility.
At some point, you will have little choice. Increasingly fewer
programs will be supported in XP. Your old browsers will work with
fewer and fewer sites. If you need something new like a printer, no
new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers. When XP
will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I
don't know.
My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades
per year. Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two
major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if
there ar no problems. Before Windows 10, there were service packs
spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of
Windows 7, there was only one. I very much object to Microsoft
imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on
users. And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to
constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending
changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility. Lee releases one
release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change. I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired. But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did
it
big time and I have no issues. If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely. But if it is simply a fear of the unknown,
rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal. I bet you would get used to
it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:
i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!

On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@gmail.com
<mailto:nedster66@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using
it you
are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now
I;m on ten
I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it
or not I
had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: zahra
Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another
operating
systems!

On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
<perry.simm=protonmail.com@groups.io
<mailto:perry.simm=protonmail.com@groups.io>> wrote:
Hi!

On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com
<mailto:nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>> wrote:
notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the
internet in
any
way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for
it.
Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
Cheers Perry



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali







--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"





--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"





Re: Is the windows10 version of itunes accessible with NVDA?

Giles Turnbull
 

Hi Brandon,

I use the latest version of iTunes on a Win10 PC. iTunes is sometimes tricky to navigate but it is just a question of getting used to it. In the help menu (annoyingly the names of the menus aren't spoken for me, but by arrowing down the menu you can hear what the options are) and there is keyboard shortcuts information in the help menu, which is the furthest right menu as with most pieces of software .

I ran into trouble the other day when 3 tracks from an album I had bought would not play in WinAmp nor in iTunes ... it kept prompting me to login to iTunes but, after logging in and trying to play the track, it again took me to the login / "authorise this computer" page.

I Googled the email contact for iTunes and contacted them with the problem. I had a very good and quick response from a person on the support team. The problem didn't get sorted so he suggested I phoned and asked to speak to the technical support team, which I did. My call to them lasted for about an hour and, as we weren't getting a totally satisfactory solution (the track would play on my iPhone but not on my Windows PC in iTunes or WinAmp) I mentioned that I was blind and using NVDA ... and he put me through to a disabilities team and that team helped me re-download the tracks I'd purchased and that did fix the problematic playback issue!

The one thing I was impressed with was that I never felt I was being pushed from one team to the next ... each one tried their best to help me and, if I'd known there was a team that deals with disabled people and is aware of NVDA and JAWS, then I would probably got a quicker answer.

Often when a new version of iTunes is made available I don't tend to install it right away, just to give chance for any issues to be reported to iTunes and for them to fix them! :)

Giles


locked Re: Lags With Notepad++

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Harreth,

I agree with you on the ribbons, unfortunately, they're not going away any time soon.  A good source for a ribbon tutorial is Ann Parson's audio (mp3 format) tutorials.  I am not sure if those are free or not, but I believe she posted them on the Blinds Tech list a few months ago.  Maybe she would appreciate a donation?

On 7/13/2019 8:44 AM, Hareth wrote:
greetings,
Despite the wishfully simplified some like to picture ribbons,
And Even if we mastered the use of them, They are at least disliked,
If not out-right hate to use them, that's for the most of us.
And that's the way with a lot of sighted people as well.
Plus some forgot that the ease of usage is a major factor of accessibility
Ribbons are not, and never will be, as easy to use and memorize as the
classic menus, Plane and simple.

Regards

On 7/13/19, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Well, this rant--long as usual--and very legalistic sounding--sounds
like some of the arguments we are getting out of Washington these days.
My lack of advancement is justified but yours isn't!

Apparently you forget the go round we had over ribbons where I pointed
out how an aspect of Excel that was very easy to do using the old menus
lasted for about 3 days with over 20 exchanges.  Long story short, you
finally had to admit that it was an accessibility issue in Excel that
wasn't existing in the old menus system.  I could have further
deconstructed your arguments back then a couple of years ago, but I gave
up after 3 days.

You come on at times like a defense lawyer arguing a case in court
rather than an adviser of people who are on a list--some of them newbies
who are afraid (as I was once) to try new things.



On 7/13/2019 5:56 AM, Gene wrote:
Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone.  I do not.
but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such
as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc.  That's
because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an
understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are
similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down
arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing.  There are other
things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.
My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly
disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is
because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by
wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible
interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't
received proper instruction and because they have heard so many
negative comments about from others who haven't received proper
instruction.  And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become
more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because
they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear
itself, as was famously said.
If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same
strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the
person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging
many people from learning.  If you can find instances where I have
viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong
feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons
which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,.
What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this?  I don't make up
widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious
problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped
releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of
further corrections and testing.  And there have been two such bad
upgrades in the last eighteen months.  I don't think the last one was
nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among
users.  While the number of people asking about problems after a
Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate
that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows,
where service packs were released far more infrequently and people
didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour,
upgrading Windows twice a year.
What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone
who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it
is a matter of fact?
And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10.  I simply
think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of
waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who
don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who
want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible.  If
people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine.  If
someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am
not personally criticial on a personal level.  But I think that users
should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they
currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7.  and it
also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where
support will continue longer.  It is my impression that Windows 10 is
harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking
resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10
and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus
possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind
computer users.
I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to
people upgrading on those grounds.  I haven't used Windows 10.  As far
as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface
itself is similar to Windows 7.  As far as I can tell, working with
apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface
of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my
impression is that there isn't much learning to do.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are
uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some
say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10.

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10.  I know there were issues with 1803, but I never
experienced them.

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the
Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead
of the somewhat standard search/start menu system.

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a
lot of Word/Excel/Access features.  Yet, I muddle through and am able
to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a
cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old
pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus.

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by
sighted people as well.  This is so much so that there are ribbon
disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not
intended solely for the  blind.



On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:
This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and
why I object to Windows 10 strongly.  It also discusses how my
objection is related to screen-reader development.  In my opinion,
Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount
of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes
that affect accessibility.
At some point, you will have little choice.  Increasingly fewer
programs will be supported in XP.  Your old browsers will work with
fewer and fewer sites.  If you need something new like a printer, no
new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers.  When XP
will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I
don't know.
My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades
per year.  Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two
major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if
there ar no problems. Before Windows 10, there were service packs
spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of
Windows 7, there was only one.  I very much object to Microsoft
imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on
users.  And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to
constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending
changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility.  Lee releases one
release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change.  I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired.  But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no issues.  If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely.  But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal.  I bet you would get used to it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:
i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!

On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@gmail.com
<mailto:nedster66@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using
it you
are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now
I;m on ten
I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it
or not I
had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: zahra
Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another
operating
systems!

On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
<perry.simm=protonmail.com@groups.io
<mailto:perry.simm=protonmail.com@groups.io>> wrote:
Hi!

On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com
<mailto:nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>> wrote:
notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the
internet in
any
way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for
it.
Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
Cheers Perry



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali







--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


locked Re: Lags With Notepad++

Hareth
 

greetings,
Despite the wishfully simplified some like to picture ribbons,
And Even if we mastered the use of them, They are at least disliked,
If not out-right hate to use them, that's for the most of us.
And that's the way with a lot of sighted people as well.
Plus some forgot that the ease of usage is a major factor of accessibility
Ribbons are not, and never will be, as easy to use and memorize as the
classic menus, Plane and simple.

Regards

On 7/13/19, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Well, this rant--long as usual--and very legalistic sounding--sounds
like some of the arguments we are getting out of Washington these days.
My lack of advancement is justified but yours isn't!

Apparently you forget the go round we had over ribbons where I pointed
out how an aspect of Excel that was very easy to do using the old menus
lasted for about 3 days with over 20 exchanges.  Long story short, you
finally had to admit that it was an accessibility issue in Excel that
wasn't existing in the old menus system.  I could have further
deconstructed your arguments back then a couple of years ago, but I gave
up after 3 days.

You come on at times like a defense lawyer arguing a case in court
rather than an adviser of people who are on a list--some of them newbies
who are afraid (as I was once) to try new things.



On 7/13/2019 5:56 AM, Gene wrote:
Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone.  I do not.
but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such
as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc.  That's
because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an
understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are
similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down
arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing.  There are other
things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.
My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly
disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is
because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by
wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible
interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't
received proper instruction and because they have heard so many
negative comments about from others who haven't received proper
instruction.  And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become
more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because
they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear
itself, as was famously said.
If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same
strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the
person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging
many people from learning.  If you can find instances where I have
viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong
feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons
which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,.
What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this?  I don't make up
widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious
problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped
releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of
further corrections and testing.  And there have been two such bad
upgrades in the last eighteen months.  I don't think the last one was
nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among
users.  While the number of people asking about problems after a
Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate
that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows,
where service packs were released far more infrequently and people
didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour,
upgrading Windows twice a year.
What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone
who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it
is a matter of fact?
And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10.  I simply
think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of
waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who
don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who
want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible.  If
people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine.  If
someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am
not personally criticial on a personal level.  But I think that users
should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they
currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7.  and it
also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where
support will continue longer.  It is my impression that Windows 10 is
harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking
resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10
and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus
possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind
computer users.
I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to
people upgrading on those grounds.  I haven't used Windows 10.  As far
as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface
itself is similar to Windows 7.  As far as I can tell, working with
apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface
of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my
impression is that there isn't much learning to do.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are
uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some
say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10.

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10.  I know there were issues with 1803, but I never
experienced them.

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the
Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead
of the somewhat standard search/start menu system.

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a
lot of Word/Excel/Access features.  Yet, I muddle through and am able
to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a
cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old
pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus.

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by
sighted people as well.  This is so much so that there are ribbon
disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not
intended solely for the  blind.



On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:
This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and
why I object to Windows 10 strongly.  It also discusses how my
objection is related to screen-reader development.  In my opinion,
Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount
of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes
that affect accessibility.
At some point, you will have little choice.  Increasingly fewer
programs will be supported in XP.  Your old browsers will work with
fewer and fewer sites.  If you need something new like a printer, no
new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers.  When XP
will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I
don't know.
My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades
per year.  Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two
major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if
there ar no problems. Before Windows 10, there were service packs
spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of
Windows 7, there was only one.  I very much object to Microsoft
imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on
users.  And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to
constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending
changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility.  Lee releases one
release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change.  I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired.  But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no issues.  If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely.  But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal.  I bet you would get used to it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:
i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!

On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@gmail.com
<mailto:nedster66@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using
it you
are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now
I;m on ten
I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it
or not I
had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: zahra
Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another
operating
systems!

On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
<perry.simm=protonmail.com@groups.io
<mailto:perry.simm=protonmail.com@groups.io>> wrote:
Hi!

On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com
<mailto:nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>> wrote:

notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the
internet in
any
way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for
it.
Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
Cheers Perry



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali







--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"





locked Re: Lags With Notepad++

Ron Canazzi
 

And while there have been issues with Windows 10 and Microsoft releasing it in a damaged or dysfunctional condition, this isn't the first time they have done this and I never remember you saying not to upgrade to any other system.  Remember Windows ME?  How about XP itself which was supposed to run every program going back to DOS 5.0 when it was first being developed that didn't even have a true DOS interface? 

Constantly telling people that they're effectively lacking in knowledge (coming off some times as if saying they were stupid) is not a good way to educate people asking for advice.


On 7/13/2019 8:24 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Well, this rant--long as usual--and very legalistic sounding--sounds like some of the arguments we are getting out of Washington these days.  My lack of advancement is justified but yours isn't!

Apparently you forget the go round we had over ribbons where I pointed out how an aspect of Excel that was very easy to do using the old menus lasted for about 3 days with over 20 exchanges.  Long story short, you finally had to admit that it was an accessibility issue in Excel that wasn't existing in the old menus system.  I could have further deconstructed your arguments back then a couple of years ago, but I gave up after 3 days. 

You come on at times like a defense lawyer arguing a case in court rather than an adviser of people who are on a list--some of them newbies who are afraid (as I was once) to try new things.



On 7/13/2019 5:56 AM, Gene wrote:
Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone.  I do not.  but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc.  That's because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing.  There are other things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.  My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't received proper instruction and because they have heard so many negative comments about from others who haven't received proper instruction.  And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear itself, as was famously said.
 
If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging many people from learning.  If you can find instances where I have viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,. 
 
What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this?  I don't make up widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of further corrections and testing.  And there have been two such bad upgrades in the last eighteen months.  I don't think the last one was nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among users.  While the number of people asking about problems after a Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows, where service packs were released far more infrequently and people didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour, upgrading Windows twice a year. 
 
What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it is a matter of fact? 
 
And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10.  I simply think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible.  If people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine.  If someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am not personally criticial on a personal level.  But I think that users should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7.  and it also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where support will continue longer.  It is my impression that Windows 10 is harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10 and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind computer users. 
 
I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to people upgrading on those grounds.  I haven't used Windows 10.  As far as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface itself is similar to Windows 7.  As far as I can tell, working with apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my impression is that there isn't much learning to do.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10. 

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10.  I know there were issues with 1803, but I never experienced them. 

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead of the somewhat standard search/start menu system. 

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a lot of Word/Excel/Access features.  Yet, I muddle through and am able to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus. 

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by sighted people as well.  This is so much so that there are ribbon disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not intended solely for the  blind.



On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:
This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and why I object to Windows 10 strongly.  It also discusses how my objection is related to screen-reader development.  In my opinion, Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes that affect accessibility.
 
At some point, you will have little choice.  Increasingly fewer programs will be supported in XP.  Your old browsers will work with fewer and fewer sites.  If you need something new like a printer, no new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers.  When XP will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I don't know. 
 
My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades per year.  Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if there ar no problems.  Before Windows 10, there were service packs spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of Windows 7, there was only one.  I very much object to Microsoft imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on users.  And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility.  Lee releases one release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change.  I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired.  But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no issues.  If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely.  But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal.  I bet you would get used to it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:
> i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!
>
> On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@...> wrote:
>> Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using it you
>> are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now I;m on ten
>> I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it or not I
>> had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: zahra
>> Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++
>>
>> xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
>> versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another operating
>> systems!
>>
>> On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
>> <perry.simm@...> wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
>>>> favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
>>> Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the internet in
>>> any
>>> way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for it.
>>> Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
>>> Cheers Perry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> By God,
>> were I given all the seven heavens
>> with all they contain
>> in order that
>> I may disobey God
>> by depriving an ant
>> from the husk of a grain of barley,
>> I would not do it.
>> imam ali
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Editing a Cell in Microsoft Excel

"Marvin Atkins"
 

Ed,

One thing I always check when F2 doesn't work is to make sure the excel screen is maximized.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Marquette
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2019 3:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Editing a Cell in Microsoft Excel

All:

I’m not an expert Excel user, but I am not a novice either. I’ve been using Excel 2013 until about three weeks ago.
To edit a cell, I have always just pressed F-2. Since moving to Excel 2016 (from Office 365), this function no longer provides feedback.
In other words, after pressing F-2, NVDA is silent when using the arrow keys to locate the precise location at which to edit. One of my colleagues noted that the cursor is indeed in the edit box and that it does in fact move when the arrow keys move, but none of the text reading commands work in the edit box. My colleague, a sighted patent lawyer, was glad to hear about the F-2 function; it is much faster than the sighted world’s default way of editing cells (by using the mouse to click into the edit box after highlighting the desired cell.
So, Excel is doing what it is supposed to do with F-2. NVDA is not.
By the way JAWS has exactly the same problem. Both screen readers used to work just fine in the Excel 2013 world.
Neither works in the Excel 2016 world.
Of course, none of our IT folks has a clew. In fact, none of them had ever heard of using F-2.
By the way, I’m using a brand new Lenovo Yoga laptop and no, this isn’t related to the default function key assignments Lenovo assigns. I’m using a USB keyboard (in fact, two different USB keyboards).
Suggestions would be appreciated.

Ps
I just double-checked Quinten’s tutorial on using Excel, and he too advocates using
F-2. I’m stumped.


beta3 - redundant speech when navigating treeviews in eclipse

Alexandre Alves Toco
 

Hi, when I press arrow up or down in a treeview (let’s say in package explorer) in eclipse, nvda beta3 is Reading the item I am leaving and the item that I move to.

In beta2 it didn’t happen.

Any one else with the same problem?

 

 

Enviado do Email para Windows 10