Date   
Re: Brltty, anything new

George Bell <george@...>
 

Talking of a “real serial port”, I recently purchased a new DELL OptiPlex7060 desktop.

 

I was amazed to find this has a Serial port, as well as 8 USB ports.  But even more surprising – it has a pair of the older PS2 ports for keyboard and mouse which I am happily using.

 

George

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Deborah Armstrong
Sent: 18 July 2019 22:58
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Brltty, anything new

 

Well I discovered a few things.

 

On an old Windows 7 machine, which has a real serial port, I installed the latest Brltty which is

brltty-win-6.0-1-libusb-1.0

it's an .Exe file and a typical Windows installer. I picked TSI for my Braille display which loads the driver that supports both the PowerBraille and the Navigator.

 

Immediately Brltty loaded and displayed "no foreground window" which is typical behavior since the interface is graphical and Brltty only works at the console level.

 

Next I updated my NVDA to 2019.1 and after restarting it, I went to Preferences-Settings-Braille and picked Brltty as my Braille display. Before I could even select OK or apply, NVDA was communicating with my PowerBraille just fine.

 

So that worked flawlessly.

 

But when I set the output table to U.S. English 6-dot computer Braille, it is stillshowing dot 7 for anything capitalized. That of course makes BRF files look very funny because many translation programs show upper case letters for those characters.

 

I can always write a SED script to convert case, but I'd rather not spend the time to convert all the brf files I'd like to read. 

I think this is a bug or maybe a flaw with the table.

 

The other weird thing is that for non-printing characters, such as the form-feed, Brltty shows the equivalent in hex "0x00C" which is annoying to have to read on the Braille display. I don't find a preference to suppress the display of non-printing characters, nor a way to suppress extra spaces or blank lines. Doing all this would make it easier to read BRF files, though for working with ordinary text, Word XLS and other types of files, NVDA on Windows 7 is doing great with Brltty still.


One thing that did reduce the number of weird characters was unchecking the box for "expand to computer Braille for the word at the cursor". If that box is checked the word at the cursor contains extra gibberish if you are looking at that word in a BRF file and you are using either the 6 or 8-dot computer Braille table. This seems unintuitive, but there you are! 


Next I'll try Windows 10 and see if I can get brltty to work there. I also need to try that Braille extender add-on, thanks for the recommendation. I had used Brltty with NVDA extensively at work until my old Win7 machine was replaced with a shiny brand-new all-in-one running Windows 10. So, I  was glad to find an old one lying around I could test with.

 

--Debee

 

Re: Push Notifications With NVDA

 

Vincent,
when Facebook sends notifications, you get a message no matter where you are? Like "new notification from Facebook: ..."?

Yep :) I can just be playing something, listening to a podcast or whatever and I'll get the notification.

these are Windows notifications and there are shortcut keys (I keep forgetting) to interact with them.
Hmmm, I really don't think they are. I mean, I know about Windows notifications and how to work with them. Windows+A will take me to the notifications centre. Is there any other kind of Windows notification, one that doesn't show up there?

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

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Re: Push Notifications With NVDA

Andy B.
 

Windows+a for notifications in Windows 10.

 

 

From: Vincent Le Goff
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 8:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Push Notifications With NVDA

 

Ho, good point.  Not a lot of detail can be found on the web though.  So the big question: when Facebook sends notifications, you get a message no matter where you are?  Like "new notification from Facebook: ..."?  If so, these are Windows notifications and there are shortcut keys (I keep forgetting) to interact with them.  If that's the case, I'll comeback with more information on how to handle that.  Further, if that's the case, you should be able to find the shortcut keys, searching for Windows shortcut keys for notifications (there's a Windows + something or other to access the list, nothing specific to NVDA as far as I know).

 

That being said, it's just a guess.  Facebook could have NVDA dynamically read some messages on the page (though it wouldn't work when you're not on the Facebook website).  These messages may just be ARIA alerts.  If so, interacting with them as notifications should be supported by facebook (and probably isn't), there's no standard to do that.  ARIA alerts are good but not great (for me who use a Braille display as sole accessibility system with NVDA not speaking at all, ARIA alerts are useless).

 

 

HTH,

 

Vincent

On 7/19/2019 2:04 PM, Marcio via Groups.Io wrote:

Vincent and Andy,

Thanks for the suggestion. I know about this add-on and it's indeed quite useful.
However these notifications I'm talking about aren't necessarily something on the browser. It's intended exactly for working outside the sites where they are coming from.
If enabled, notifications from FB, for example, would give us an alert when someone posts something, comments on any of our posts, sends us a message etc. The problem with it, though, is what I've said. NVDA  reports the notification on the desktop but it's apparently nowhere to be found so that we can interact with it, just like these toast ones.

Cheers,
Marcio

AKA Starboy

 

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

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Re: Push Notifications With NVDA

Vincent Le Goff
 

Ho, good point.  Not a lot of detail can be found on the web though.  So the big question: when Facebook sends notifications, you get a message no matter where you are?  Like "new notification from Facebook: ..."?  If so, these are Windows notifications and there are shortcut keys (I keep forgetting) to interact with them.  If that's the case, I'll comeback with more information on how to handle that.  Further, if that's the case, you should be able to find the shortcut keys, searching for Windows shortcut keys for notifications (there's a Windows + something or other to access the list, nothing specific to NVDA as far as I know).


That being said, it's just a guess.  Facebook could have NVDA dynamically read some messages on the page (though it wouldn't work when you're not on the Facebook website).  These messages may just be ARIA alerts.  If so, interacting with them as notifications should be supported by facebook (and probably isn't), there's no standard to do that.  ARIA alerts are good but not great (for me who use a Braille display as sole accessibility system with NVDA not speaking at all, ARIA alerts are useless).



HTH,


Vincent

On 7/19/2019 2:04 PM, Marcio via Groups.Io wrote:
Vincent and Andy,
Thanks for the suggestion. I know about this add-on and it's indeed quite useful.
However these notifications I'm talking about aren't necessarily something on the browser. It's intended exactly for working outside the sites where they are coming from.
If enabled, notifications from FB, for example, would give us an alert when someone posts something, comments on any of our posts, sends us a message etc. The problem with it, though, is what I've said. NVDA  reports the notification on the desktop but it's apparently nowhere to be found so that we can interact with it, just like these toast ones.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

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Re: Code Factory add-in for NVDA

Josh Kennedy
 

I also wish we could get some confirmation about decTalk since it, too, is, or was, very popular. There is nothing wrong with the 24-year-old decTalk access32 dll files. they work fine aside from some bugs in the nvda-addon code, they work just fine with NVDA. I wish that we could 1. get official confirmation that is it abandonware, or is it not abandonware and can we use the 24-year-old decTalk access32 dll which is still perfectly fine with NVDA? 2. if somebody would give us permission to use that dll, which by the way again works perfectly fine, then once we have permission, we could incorporate it into NVDA as an alternative to ESpeak for english and maybe some other languages, same goes for willowPond softVoice tts, by the way... so anyway once we get confirmation, they could be incorporated into NVDA so people have some alternative voices. and also perhaps the voices could be given sapi5 interfaces for those who wish to use them in that form. oh better yet, if NVDA could sell decTalk nvda-addon and softVoice tts addon, decTalk sapi5 with a good non-buggy interface and softVoice tts sapi5 again with a good stable interface. I personally would gladly pay $10 to $20 or so for updated versions of those two tts engines. better yet would be if the authors just said well just go ahead and incorporate them into NVDA as voices or as voices on the extra-voices download website. 
Josh

Re: Push Notifications With NVDA

 

Vincent and Andy,
Thanks for the suggestion. I know about this add-on and it's indeed quite useful.
However these notifications I'm talking about aren't necessarily something on the browser. It's intended exactly for working outside the sites where they are coming from.
If enabled, notifications from FB, for example, would give us an alert when someone posts something, comments on any of our posts, sends us a message etc. The problem with it, though, is what I've said. NVDA  reports the notification on the desktop but it's apparently nowhere to be found so that we can interact with it, just like these toast ones.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
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Re: Code Factory add-in for NVDA

Josh Kennedy
 

hi ed and all,
I agree. a company should not put use-at-your-own-risk abandonware that could possibly be buggy onto their system, such as the sketchy legality of the decTalk addon that uses a 24-year-old decTalk synthesizer. If you want to use it for personal noncommercial use well that is your business. But if I were a company I would insist on software that 1. has support along with it, and 2. is up-to-date and secure. Now I do have the following issues with both sapi5 codeFactory eloquence and the codeFactory addon that is purchased. those issues are the following... 1. people reported the nvda-addon is crackly sometimes, sapi5 eloquence works fine however. 2. I really really want the ability to log onto a website and put in the key into an edit box, and reset my keys back to 3, this would unregister all copies of my software and would let me move my software to a new computer. What if my computer dies and there is an eloquence addon or sapi5 key on it? just let me go to a site, put in the key I wish to deactivate and reset my number of keys back to 3 or whatever the limit is, deactivating all coppies of the software therefore letting me install a copy or two onto new computers. and lastly. eloquence should only phone home maybe once every 60 or so days. That way people with infrequent internet access would not have as big of an issue with its phone home stuff. other than that I really like the sapi5 eloquence and it works fine. and I will use my copy of sapi5 eloquence as long as codeFactory supports it. In fact I'm thinking of buying their sapi5 vocalizer. I prefer sapi5 that way I can use the voices with audio games and other stuff and it is not tied down to NVDA. 

Re: Push Notifications With NVDA

Vincent Le Goff
 

Hi,


Yes, the Mozilla enhancer is a good choice.  You can download it here: https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/mozillaScripts.en.html .  I recommend redading the quick documentation on this page as it will give you more details.


When you receive a notification, NVDA will automatically focus on the notification.  Chances are you'll arrive on "learn more" and if you tab / shift-tab, you'll see the options.  Now, in most cases, options are in a sub-menu, so NVDA might read something like the following:


Facebook would like to access your current location.


Don't allow

Allow (sub menu)


If you press space on the sub-menu, you will be given more options on what to allow.  The same thing might apply to "don't allow" choices.


The NVDA addon for Mozilla just focuses you on the notification.  You could access it without the addon, by pressing shift-tab when at the top of the page, or tab when at the bottom (you might need to do that several times, since the notifications are somewhere near the address bar for us and are not necessarily easy to see, hence the addon).


Finally, with the addon installed, NVDA will focus on notifications when they arrive.  This might not be desired.  You can just press the escape key to go back to the website (your last position will be kept).


Also notice the NVDA+A shortcut which I personally find extremely useful with this addon.


Hope that helps,


Vincent

On 7/19/2019 1:01 PM, Marcio via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi,
For testing purposes, I've enabled push notifications for FB on my Firefox.
Now, although I can hear NVDA reporting these notifications, try as I may, I can't for the life of me find a way of interacting with them.
So my question is, once NVDA reports a notification of this kind how do I interact with it?

Thanks a lot.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

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Re: Push Notifications With NVDA

Andy B.
 

Hi,

 

Try the Mozilla enhancements addon.

 

 

From: Marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 7:04 AM
To: NVDA List
Subject: [nvda] Push Notifications With NVDA

 

Hi,
For testing purposes, I've enabled push notifications for FB on my Firefox.
Now, although I can hear NVDA reporting these notifications, try as I may, I can't for the life of me find a way of interacting with them.
So my question is, once NVDA reports a notification of this kind how do I interact with it?

Thanks a lot.

Cheers,
Marcio

AKA Starboy

 

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!

 

Push Notifications With NVDA

 

Hi,
For testing purposes, I've enabled push notifications for FB on my Firefox.
Now, although I can hear NVDA reporting these notifications, try as I may, I can't for the life of me find a way of interacting with them.
So my question is, once NVDA reports a notification of this kind how do I interact with it?

Thanks a lot.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!

Re: Using NVDA in the context of language learning

Daniel Damacena
 

Duolingo is good at the beginning, but nothing more then that.
I'm learning english and there are some tools that can help us a lot when you are dealing with NVDA.
Obviously, you'll need a voice in the target language.
Switch synt addon: it allows you to change voice profiles at once, so you can set a profile for your own language and another for the target language and active bouth with a hotkey.
Instant translate or q translate. Those are useful 'cause you can get translations at once.
This is what I use everyday.

Best regards!


synths

 

Hi.

Over on win10, there was a discussion I think on the elequence codefactory addon I think and issues with it.

A user suggested we all use the speech player addon.

Here is the thing though, how old is it, does it even work with espeak ng, and will it work with the new py3 and threshhold.

If not we have a problem, that synth was to my mind only a concept.

And now, its just a bunch of outdated crap.

Seriously, as I said in that thread we need our own synth.

And either we chuck out the old crappy synth like speech player or we actually try to continue where we started from.

I am not the authors of this but I'd have thought that if I were them I would have made a decision before now as this was all done years and years ago at least it looks like this.

I know this will come as a bit harsh, but it seems people just say we have this older synth about that we made.

To be honest if we are serious in using our own synth, a serious descussion needs to be had on restarting development on it or making another synth or something.

I really think something needs to be done else we will continue to have this conversation round and round and round.

Is it at all possible we could actually start talking about this in general please.

I'd like questions to be answered, like why did we stop, and why don't we start again.

I think there were valid reasons but well.

Next what synths in addon form will work wityh the newer addon schemes in nvda and the future.

Its obvious that we may need our own synth, but should we have one or not.

Is it worth restarting our own or designing our own and what would we use.

Now I am happy with espeak but if we had our own synth and sold a sapi version or something and maybe the addon version or something for low cost say 5-10 vbucks I'd get it, maybe up to 30 bucks for higher quality things, maybe as much as 60 bucks for really good packs of things.

I just think with all the new technology and prices dropping down lower and lower that we really should hav a good look is all.

Re: greetings from a new user, making transition from JAWS2018 using Win10 and looking for tips and tricks and default program suggestions

Tony Ballou
 

Hey P J,


welcome aboard! Go to


accessibilitycentral.net/nvda screen reader.html


You'll find loads of tips, tricks, and tutorials up there covering NVDA.  hope this helps.


tony



 

On 7/18/2019 7:48 AM, Phil Jenkins gmail wrote:

Greetings folks

 

I’m a 20+ year user of JAWS. Not necessarily because it has been the ‘best’ but rather because it was what my employer and uni’ provided and it simply became habitual. Now I have to pay for all upgrades myself, and not really enjoying the ‘drug pusher’  like relationship JAWS has with its users, I have decided to make the slow but sure move to NVDA. I’ve heard great things about the screen reader and in fact I’ve heard in many cases I should be able to do things with NVDA that I cannot do with JAWS.

 

So my PC is Windows10 with MS-Office.

 

1                     Is there a document that gives NVDA equivalent keyboards commands as JAWS, ie if you did X ion JAWS then do Y in NVDA? Presumably the ‘access’ key is the zero on the num pad that JAWS uses?

2                     What is the best default email client and web browser to use with  NVDA? Have experience of Outlook, Outlook Express, poor experience of  Thunderbird. Have used I#e, Firefox and Chrome. No experience of Edge.

3                     Music player? WMP or WinAmp or something else?

4                     Does NVDA work with any kind of ‘Open Office’ non MS office suite?

 

 

I guess the things I use the most with my old Win7Pro machine that I’m about to stop using and move to the Win10 machine are:

-          Outlook

-          - IE, Firefox (or Waterfox) and Chrome.

-          Word.

-          Audible Manager

-          Soundtaxi

-          Sendspace

-          Ccleaner

-          Secure Notes

-          Dropbox

-          WMP.

 

Thanks all and apologies if this question has been asked and asked again, feel free to point me at web resources that will answer my questions.

 

Kindest

 

PJ

 

~~~

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Re: Code Factory add-in for NVDA

Ed Marquette
 

Gene and Josh:

Thanks for all your suggestions.  I’m not finished with Code Factory yet.  I just wanted to serve up a warning.  I will try one of the suggested voices, though I don’t think our IT Department would go along with an obsolete product.  That may be just the thing for others.
On the copyright issue, Gene is correct that not every build or revision to a computer program is (or needs to be) registered.  Actually copyright comes into existence, in the U.S. and in most countries, when the work is first fixed in a tangible medium.  Registration is actually optional, though the Supreme Court held this spring that one must have a copyright registration certificate in-hand before filing suit for infringement.  
One, however, cannot properly compare patent law and copyright law.  Patent law gives the patent holder the right to exclude all others from “making, selling, and using” the invention.  Copyright, by contrast, gives the copyright holder the exclusive right to reproduce, distribute, modify (make derivative works), publicly display, and publicly perform the copyrighted work.  Well, I hope most people stopped reading well before eating to this point, and I suspect we’ve strayed off topic.
  


On Jul 18, 2019, at 12:11 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I doubt that copyrights have to specifically assert copyright for every version of the software that exists.  The SAPI version uses Dectalk as the synthesizer used.  SAPI is a means of communicating with Windows, it is not the software itself.  A patent holder on the transistor doesn't have to patent every product transistors are used in.  You are making an equivalent claim.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2019 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Code Factory add-in for NVDA

well, if the old decTalk access32 for windows95, and the softVoice-willowpond tts are indeed abandonware, if this can be confirmed, then, perhaps you could use one or both of those with NVDA? I emailed the author of softVoice-tts and have heard nothing back. It seems as if that website has been abandoned. And the people who claim they sell decTalk have an old copyright on their site which is 6 or so years old, and it does not even support sapi5. So, again, if the old decTalk access32 and the other tts I mentioned are abandonware, perhaps ESpeak could be modified to load their tts-dll files and those two older voices could be included as a part of ESpeak? Those voices also have their own phonemes, pitches, ways of speaking. So all ESpeak and ESpeak sapi5 would need to do is load, and use, the 24-year-old possiby abandoned decTalk and softVoice-tts dll files, and register and use the voices and/or languages they come with. the last time I heard from the author of softVoice-tts several years ago, he said he did not care if we used softVoice with screen readers. nobody uses it or wants to buy it anymore anyway. 

Re: Code Factory add-in for NVDA

 

I'm not a fan of using abandond software with nvda or windows.

Firstly, assuming that its sapi4, how long will it be before microsoft makes that all go away.

Even if it is, who knows if it will install.

I used to use old vocaliser from xp for 7, and while I could use it, I couldn't remove it without a reformat.

I have had software screw up my speech settings which had incompatability issues and needed a reformat to fix.

I have also had software install, but not be workable, and stuff up a system requiring a reformat to fix it.

This in the end lead after 20 reformats of the same computer to abandon the software perminantly.

Some of this stuff was for win3.1 and could be 16 bit.



On 19/07/2019 2:40 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:
well, if the old decTalk access32 for windows95, and the softVoice-willowpond tts are indeed abandonware, if this can be confirmed, then, perhaps you could use one or both of those with NVDA? I emailed the author of softVoice-tts and have heard nothing back. It seems as if that website has been abandoned. And the people who claim they sell decTalk have an old copyright on their site which is 6 or so years old, and it does not even support sapi5. So, again, if the old decTalk access32 and the other tts I mentioned are abandonware, perhaps ESpeak could be modified to load their tts-dll files and those two older voices could be included as a part of ESpeak? Those voices also have their own phonemes, pitches, ways of speaking. So all ESpeak and ESpeak sapi5 would need to do is load, and use, the 24-year-old possiby abandoned decTalk and softVoice-tts dll files, and register and use the voices and/or languages they come with. the last time I heard from the author of softVoice-tts several years ago, he said he did not care if we used softVoice with screen readers. nobody uses it or wants to buy it anymore anyway. 

Re: Using NVDA in the context of language learning

 

Well duo lingo springs to mind on smartphones and the web.

But thats about all I know.



On 19/07/2019 2:16 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Yesterday a new member to the Chat Subgroup posted the following topic there:  Learning Spanish using NVDA

This is a complex subject with which I have no experience, and probably a very limited number of our membership have direct experience, whether with Spanish specifically or another language.   I am posting this here so that those who might have such experience, but have not joined the Chat Subgroup, will be aware of the topic's existence should they wish to join and assist.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

Re: greetings from a new user, making transition from JAWS2018 using Win10 and looking for tips and tricks and default program suggestions

Gene
 

I forgot to write the f.  Its good that you corrected it.
 
Gene
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2019 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] greetings from a new user, making transition from JAWS2018 using Win10 and looking for tips and tricks and default program suggestions

Gene,
Speak time, NVDA key 12.
Just a small correction. The command is NVDA+F12.
Only clearing things up since NVDA+12 could be interpreted as NVDA+1 then 2 quickly.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

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Re: dropbox

Abbie Taylor <abbietaylor945@...>
 

In Windows 10, I click on the desktop icon that says my user name. This opens in File Explorer, and Dropbox is in that folder. I hope this helps.
--
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http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
abbietaylor945@...

where can I find info on cursors that take the place of the jaws cursor

marvin kotler
 

Good evening listers; NVDA is my backup screen reader; but I would like to learn to use it just in case I need too.  What cursors take the place of the jaws cursor for starters?

Marv

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

Re: greetings from a new user, making transition from JAWS2018using Win10 and looking for tips and tricks and default program suggestions

Hope Williamson <hopeisjoyful@...>
 

I use Waterfox on a daily basis. It’s completely accessible. At least it works for everything I’ve ever needed to do.