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Re: Can I change NVDA key commands
Hi, Hmmm, I see. How about renaming it to something to the effect of, “Manage commands”? That may allow the original intent to be kept while making it more user friendly. It may also allow translators to translate this concept more easily. The obvious downside is extensive edits to tutorials, websites, training materials, user guide and such, but I don’t consider this a downside – rather, an opportunity to change it based on more user feedback. Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Being a tech geek from way back, I can categorically state that this is yet another instance where "tech brevity" is being valued over end user understanding. It happens again and again and again. Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362 The color of truth is grey. ~ André Gide
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Re: Can I change NVDA key commands
Being a tech geek from way back, I can categorically state that this is yet another instance where "tech brevity" is being valued over end user understanding. It happens again and again and again.
"Input contols - keyboard commands, touch gestures, etc." as a descriptive in these programs, which is a simple thing to do, makes the intention entirely clear. Microsoft was just as guilty of this with the inane "toast" notifications. No one would instantly recognize that these are notifications that slide in at the lower right hand side of the screen by default. "Slide-in" notifications at least makes it clear what the behavior is, whether you can see it or not, and allows both the sighted and the blind to be "on the same page" about what's being looked out for. It just drives me insane that the "user ergonomics" of software is still so little considered. I am only too well aware that at the setting by setting level this becomes an impossible nightmare for any truly complex piece of software, but at the broad categories and first level of subdivision of those it should be pretty simple. I'd have the previously mentioned "Input Controls" fully articulated label then under that it would be broken into Keyboard Commands, Touch Gestures, Other [e.g. Pen or something that hasn't even been invented yet]. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362 The color of truth is grey. ~ André Gide
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Re: Can I change NVDA key commands
Gene
That is an invalid assumption. Gestures means something you do to
indicate something or something you do on a screen. When have the
developers ever once, before the advent of the touch screen, heard or seen
anyone refer to a gesture when describing a keystroke. Pressing a key is
moving a mechanical switch, not a gesture and it still isn’t refered to as
one. .
Developers aren’t professional writers generally, they are
developers. Those who really know language and who pay close attention to
useage and meaning should be given good attention when such things are brought
up. I was an English major before unexpectedly leaving college. And
I’ve read enough about philosophy to be very aware of the importance of defining
terms. Who do the developers consult when making such a decission based on
a suggestion or complaint? I’m not assuming they don’t consult such people
but it is a question worth getting an answer to.
Brian, from my past observation, is another person who pays careful
attention to precise use of language.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands Hi, I think part of the reason for going that route is our (NVDA developers’) assumption that gestures can encompass input methods such as keyboards, touch, braille, and so many possibilities. JAWS has issues with this too, in that the headquarters for configuring commands is called “keyboard manager” when in fact it can be used to assign braille and touchscreen shortcuts. I think I saw a GitHub issue that asks NV Access to change this to something more meaningful – if I do find it and if there is justification for it, I’ll ask NV Access people to take a look at it again. If NVDA developers agree that it should be changed, it will be done for a future release (not now due to more important road paving operations taking place at the moment). Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 11:32 AM, Joseph Norton wrote:
I've actually complained on this list (but I don't think on
github) about this very unfortunate choice of terminology. Your
presumption that gestures applies to touch actions is almost universal across
the UI world. Keyboard shortcuts are not gestures and never the twain
shall meet. Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362 The color of truth is grey. ~ André Gide
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windows oneCore voices pause for punctuation
Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@...>
Hi, I like the oneCore voices, but is there any way to greatly decrease the amount of time they pause when they encounter punctuation marks? Eloquence has a much shorter pause than the oneCore voices, and if I could get them, the oneCore voices to hardly pause at all while reading I would use them a lot more.
Josh
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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Re: Can I change NVDA key commands
Hi, Other screen readers exhibit the same problem: JAWS calls it “keyboard help”, while Narrator calls it “input learning”. VoiceOver on iOS just calls it “help”, which is more understandable in that it originally supported touch gestures. In the old versions of NVDA (prior to 2011.1), NVDA itself used “keyboard help”, but in 2011.1, it was changed to what it is today to acknowledge the fact that input comes from all sorts of places (back then, they were keyboards and braille displays). Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:18 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands
Clearly, something like keyboard and gestures help should be the title. Input help, while technically correct and covering any possible means of input is too technical to give users who are not technically knowledgeable confidence that they know what is being described.
Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Vogel Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands
On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 11:32 AM, Joseph Norton wrote:
I've actually complained on this list (but I don't think on github) about this very unfortunate choice of terminology. Your presumption that gestures applies to touch actions is almost universal across the UI world. Keyboard shortcuts are not gestures and never the twain shall meet. Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362 The color of truth is grey. ~ André Gide
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Re: Can I change NVDA key commands
Hi, I think part of the reason for going that route is our (NVDA developers’) assumption that gestures can encompass input methods such as keyboards, touch, braille, and so many possibilities. JAWS has issues with this too, in that the headquarters for configuring commands is called “keyboard manager” when in fact it can be used to assign braille and touchscreen shortcuts. I think I saw a GitHub issue that asks NV Access to change this to something more meaningful – if I do find it and if there is justification for it, I’ll ask NV Access people to take a look at it again. If NVDA developers agree that it should be changed, it will be done for a future release (not now due to more important road paving operations taking place at the moment). Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 11:32 AM, Joseph Norton wrote:
I've actually complained on this list (but I don't think on github) about this very unfortunate choice of terminology. Your presumption that gestures applies to touch actions is almost universal across the UI world. Keyboard shortcuts are not gestures and never the twain shall meet. Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362 The color of truth is grey. ~ André Gide
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Re: Can I change NVDA key commands
Gene
Clearly, something like keyboard and gestures help should be the
title. Input help, while technically correct and covering any possible
means of input is too technical to give users who are not technically
knowledgeable confidence that they know what is being described.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands On
Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 11:32 AM, Joseph Norton wrote: I saw “input gestures” on the menu, but, thought it only applied to touch gestures, so didn’t try it.I've actually complained on this list (but I don't think on github) about this very unfortunate choice of terminology. Your presumption that gestures applies to touch actions is almost universal across the UI world. Keyboard shortcuts are not gestures and never the twain shall meet. There are often separate keyboard shortcuts and touch gestures to do the same thing which clearly indicates their separation as entities. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362 The color of truth is grey. ~ André Gide
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Re: Can I change NVDA key commands
On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 11:32 AM, Joseph Norton wrote:
I saw “input gestures” on the menu, but, thought it only applied to touch gestures, so didn’t try it.I've actually complained on this list (but I don't think on github) about this very unfortunate choice of terminology. Your presumption that gestures applies to touch actions is almost universal across the UI world. Keyboard shortcuts are not gestures and never the twain shall meet. There are often separate keyboard shortcuts and touch gestures to do the same thing which clearly indicates their separation as entities. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362 The color of truth is grey. ~ André Gide
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Re: Can I change NVDA key commands
Joseph Norton
Hi:
Thanks much for that.
I saw “input gestures” on the menu, but, thought it only applied to touch gestures, so didn’t try it.
Anyway, works like a top.
Thanks again!
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 9:46 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands
Hello, Yes, you can, nvda-n, preferences, input gestures. There search for “quit” and change it to what you prefer.
Cheers, Ralf
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Norton
Hi:
I’m switching back and forth between JAWS and NVDA for certain things, and, I frequently use the wrong exit command.
I notice NVDA+f4 isn’t mapped to anything, so, can I map NVDA+f4 to exit NVDA?
Thanks!
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Re: Can I change NVDA key commands
Ralf Kefferpuetz
Hello, Yes, you can, nvda-n, preferences, input gestures. There search for “quit” and change it to what you prefer.
Cheers, Ralf
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Norton
Sent: Sonntag, 21. Juli 2019 15:27 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands
Hi:
I’m switching back and forth between JAWS and NVDA for certain things, and, I frequently use the wrong exit command.
I notice NVDA+f4 isn’t mapped to anything, so, can I map NVDA+f4 to exit NVDA?
Thanks!
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Can I change NVDA key commands
Joseph Norton
Hi:
I’m switching back and forth between JAWS and NVDA for certain things, and, I frequently use the wrong exit command.
I notice NVDA+f4 isn’t mapped to anything, so, can I map NVDA+f4 to exit NVDA?
Thanks!
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Re: Code Factory add-in for NVDA
I agree, if and when I can I go for sapi5 synths, I can run them outside the reader and I can use them for things other than the screen reader.
On 21/07/2019 1:00 AM, Josh Kennedy
wrote:
I think I will pay the extra money for the sapi5 vocalizer. That way I can use it with my favorite audio-games, and with narrator if needed. As for eloquence, I think it will be around for a good many years to come, just because of how popular it still is. Aside from phoning home every 30 days, the sapi5 eloquence works fine.
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Re: NVDA and edge
Gene
I doubt you have to run two browsers. Open
one site in one window or tab, then open another window or tab. Do so with
control n for new window or control t for new tab. Open the other page in
the new window or tab.
Use alt tab to move between windows if you are
working with windows, and control tab if you are working with tabs. Close
a tab if you want to leave the other opened with control f4. Close one
window and leave the other opened with alt f4, the usual command to close a
window.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2019 1:08 PM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and edge Hi list need to run two browsers at the same time to do a radio show prep. So I have tried edge to view a list of a billboard chart archive while using chrome to get some of the songs. Well I got to the page Okay but to try to speed things up I tried boxing links using f7 every time I did it the cat got NVDA’s tongue I had to hit alt ctrl N to get it to talk. Does edge not support that basic function in NVDA I really haven’t used edge much and the more I look at it the more I’m sure it’s a piece of crap. A pure rush job by Microsoft. So it looks like even crappier IE is going to have to be used. And I don’t want to get firefox back in here now that the main reason I used it before was webvisum which is gone. Can any on list suggest an alternative browser in addition to chrome that behaves itself and works well with NVDA? It’s obvious edge ain’t so hot.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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Acapela synth activation trouble
Dark Count
Hello.
I had to reinstall windows10 fresh and a fresh copy of NVDA. Now my acapela voices do not work at all. There is a main addon which is the engine that one instals first, then the addon which is the voice one wishes to use. I try activating a new license, but I get a bunch of script errors and then an error saying cannot open dialog box. I went searching the archives of the list and found a thread from 2016 with the exact issues, but no resolution on the list. I uninstalled the engine add on and reinstalled it but the same problem persists and this register.exe program keeps showing up with that dialog box error, or at times it will simply freeze and try to prevent me from rebooting the machine by telling me that register.exe is running. I wanted to throw it out here just in case. It is a new copy of windows10 1903, with a fresh copy of nvda 19.1.1. If you found a way to work around this let me know please. D C p.s. acapela support is strangely silent when I contact them.
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Re: NVDA and edge
On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 02:23 PM, Chris wrote:
I guess the most logical solution would be to use two instances of the same browser?Unless two separate user IDs need to be logged in to the same site. In which case one can open an incognito window for one of the sessions. Every contemporary browser I know of shares all its "background data" like cache, etc., regardless of how many instances are open unless those instances other than the regular windows are incognito (Chrome) or Private, in which case they get dedicated storage completely separated from the regular browser window(s). If one wants to use NVDA with Edge, at this juncture I'd strongly suggest doing so only with the dev channel Chromium-based Edge which has been much discussed recently. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362 The color of truth is grey. ~ André Gide
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Re: NVDA and edge
Chris
I guess the most logical solution would be to use two instances of the same browser?
From: ken lawrence via Groups.Io
Sent: 20 July 2019 19:08 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] NVDA and edge
Hi list need to run two browsers at the same time to do a radio show prep. So I have tried edge to view a list of a billboard chart archive while using chrome to get some of the songs. Well I got to the page Okay but to try to speed things up I tried boxing links using f7 every time I did it the cat got NVDA’s tongue I had to hit alt ctrl N to get it to talk. Does edge not support that basic function in NVDA I really haven’t used edge much and the more I look at it the more I’m sure it’s a piece of crap. A pure rush job by Microsoft. So it looks like even crappier IE is going to have to be used. And I don’t want to get firefox back in here now that the main reason I used it before was webvisum which is gone. Can any on list suggest an alternative browser in addition to chrome that behaves itself and works well with NVDA? It’s obvious edge ain’t so hot.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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Re: NVDA and edge
Dan Kerstetter
You could just open up two tabs in Google Chrome. You can switch back-and-forth between them with control tab.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Jul 20, 2019, at 2:08 PM, ken lawrence via Groups.Io <kenlawrence124@...> wrote:
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NVDA and edge
ken lawrence
Hi list need to run two browsers at the same time to do a radio show prep. So I have tried edge to view a list of a billboard chart archive while using chrome to get some of the songs. Well I got to the page Okay but to try to speed things up I tried boxing links using f7 every time I did it the cat got NVDA’s tongue I had to hit alt ctrl N to get it to talk. Does edge not support that basic function in NVDA I really haven’t used edge much and the more I look at it the more I’m sure it’s a piece of crap. A pure rush job by Microsoft. So it looks like even crappier IE is going to have to be used. And I don’t want to get firefox back in here now that the main reason I used it before was webvisum which is gone. Can any on list suggest an alternative browser in addition to chrome that behaves itself and works well with NVDA? It’s obvious edge ain’t so hot.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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Add-on updater 19.07.3 will enable toast notifications on Windows 10 by default
#addonrelease
Hi all,
Add-on Updater 19.07.3 is on its way. The only difference between 19.07.2 and 19.07.3 concerns toast notifications on Windows 10 – it will now be enabled by default for all Windows 10 users. Note that this is still an experimental feature, and if things go well, it’ll become a permanent feature in version 19.08.
Cheers, Joseph
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Re: SPL Addon Questions
Howard Traxler <howard@...>
Thank you Sarah. It's a very delicate balance here: Someone puts out some initials without explanation and I have to decide, do I care to take time to go look it up; or maybe I'd be missing something important if I don't. So, sometimes, I just ask the list.
Anyways, thank you for the answer.
Howard
On 7/20/2019 9:34 AM, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
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