Date   

Re: webpage images with NVDA (was: Why does NVDA not find photos on this website?)

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Giles,

It shouldn't make a difference in which order the tags go, as long as the IMG tag is first.  Interestingly, in my test, it worked fine.  I created a test page with the following code:
<HTML>
<BODY>
<IMG SRC="https://www.nvaccess.org/images/logo.png" ALT="Alt text after src">
<P>
Here is a paragraph.
<P>
<IMG ALT="Alt text before src" SRC="https://www.nvaccess.org/images/logo.png">
<P>
More text.
<P>
<ALT="Alt, then SRC, then IMG" SRC="https://www.nvaccess.org/images/logo.png" IMG>
</BODY>
</HTML>

Testing that in both Firefox and Chrome, the first two images are both read fine either with say all, or when pressing G or SHIFT+G.  In both browsers, the third image, with the IMG tag last, is not read by NVDA, but it is also not displayed visually, and so I don't think should be expected to work.

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 11:38 PM Giles Turnbull <giles.turnbull@...> wrote:
Hi all,

this is a follow-up to my question about why NVDA didn't find any images using the g shortcut keystroke on the Borrow My Doggy website when sighted members told me they could see the photos of the dogs.

After trying, unsuccessfully, to find the answer with one of the website developers I took a closer look at the html code behind the pages.

It turns out that they were coding images with ALT tags this way:
<IMG ALT="this is an image description" SRC="http://...">

I saved a webpage as a file on my laptop and edited the code so the ALT tag followed the SRC link, and NVDA recognised the graphic object.

I'm assuming since sighted people can see the photos, is there something in the NVDA program code that only recognises an image if the code is in the layout IMG SRC ALT so that IMG ALT SRC does not get picked up as a graphical element?

I was an occasional website designer many years ago and never coded an IMG tag with the ALT text between the IMG and the SRC and I've never ever seen a website code images that way. But, if it is technically okay to structure the image tag that way, should NVDA be able to cope with that structure too?

Giles



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

David Csercsics
 

Yes, it deletes with pop, but gmail from imap doesn't seem to delete messages from the server. They stay in all mail. If I didn't sometimes get mail on my phone, I wouldn't care, and just use pop3, but I don't believe iOS supports that.


Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

Gene
 

I don't know what IMAP accounts do.  My Gmail account, using POP3 and Windows Live Mail, does delete mail from the GMail inbox when I delete it from Windows Live Mail.  I don't know if or how this might be done with an IMAP account.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

How do you delete all the mail you don't need in gmail. I have the
problem here that I have a lot of old stuff in all mail that I don't
need, because apparently gmail doesn't actually delete things when you
press the delete button. So how do you get rid of that. The website
doesn't seem to have an efficient way to select a lot of mail.
Thunderbird seems to still have mail that I'd press delete on long ago.





Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

David Csercsics
 

How do you delete all the mail you don't need in gmail. I have the problem here that I have a lot of old stuff in all mail that I don't need, because apparently gmail doesn't actually delete things when you press the delete button. So how do you get rid of that. The website doesn't seem to have an efficient way to select a lot of mail. Thunderbird seems to still have mail that I'd press delete on long ago.


Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

Dark Count
 

Unsubscribe the all mail folder.

This will not delete the messages, just not show them on the folder list.

But all other subscribe folders will be there.

This is a gmail thing it seems.


These wiki may help.

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Testing:Memory_Usage_Problems


D C

On 8/19/2019 3:15 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I have over 200 thousand so that might be an issue ther at least as far as gmail. And no I'm not clearing any of it, at least not yet.
In a single folder, or spread across the IMAP folders in that account?

If I recall correctly, gmail exposes virtual IMAP folders. So everything in your inbox acts as if it is replicated in the allmail folder. And a few other cases of that sort of thing. I wonder if Thunderbird is seeing those as separate folders, and trying to process them as such? That is a wild shot in the dark, as I have never used Thunderbird, and all my gmail IMAP access is via mail programs that behave well with it.

Luke


Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

Andy B.
 

Yes to your question.

On 8/19/2019 6:15 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I have over 200 thousand so that might be an issue ther at least as far as gmail. And no I'm not clearing any of it, at least not yet.
In a single folder, or spread across the IMAP folders in that account?

If I recall correctly, gmail exposes virtual IMAP folders. So everything in your inbox acts as if it is replicated in the allmail folder. And a few other cases of that sort of thing. I wonder if Thunderbird is seeing those as separate folders, and trying to process them as such? That is a wild shot in the dark, as I have never used Thunderbird, and all my gmail IMAP access is via mail programs that behave well with it.

Luke


Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

Luke Davis
 

On Mon, 19 Aug 2019, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I have over 200 thousand so that might be an issue ther at least as far as gmail. And no I'm not clearing any of it, at least not yet.
In a single folder, or spread across the IMAP folders in that account?

If I recall correctly, gmail exposes virtual IMAP folders. So everything in your inbox acts as if it is replicated in the allmail folder. And a few other cases of that sort of thing. I wonder if Thunderbird is seeing those as separate folders, and trying to process them as such? That is a wild shot in the dark, as I have never used Thunderbird, and all my gmail IMAP access is via mail programs that behave well with it.

Luke


Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

Sarah k Alawami
 

I have over 200 thousand so that might be an issue ther at least as far as gmail. And no I'm not clearing any of it, at least not yet.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 19 Aug 2019, at 14:59, Andy B. wrote:

Hi,

I disabled complete sync in TB 68 for one of my Gmail accounts. Will see how it goes on performance for a while. I have a hunch that the lag has something to do with GMail sync downloading everything in the account. When you have over 20,000 emails, it can break any mail client.

On 8/19/2019 5:54 PM, David Csercsics wrote:

Antivirus isn't the trouble here, as I went to quite a bit of trouble to disable most of Windows defender except for regularly scheduled scans. If I could run without security software I'd do it, as it's typically more of a pain than it's worth.


Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

Andy B.
 

Is this Imap?


On 8/19/2019 6:01 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I'm using devender as well. And I'm also usign the add on you are using. Still a lot of slowness and lagging issues with nvda and tBird.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 19 Aug 2019, at 14:26, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Rich and all the others having this issue,

I am using NVDA 2019.2 with the Thunderbird enhancement app from NVDA community with Windows 10 1903 and latest updates and I really am not seeing this issue.  I wonder what anti virus or anti spyware programs are being used by those having the sluggishness issues.  In the old days, many times anti virus programs caused sluggishness with mail programs as well as other issues.  I am using Windows Defender and Malware bytes.

On 8/19/2019 12:23 PM, Rich DeSteno wrote:

I wrote to this list a couple of weeks ago about the increasing sluggishness of NVDA, particularly in Thunderbird  Unfortunately, this problem did not improve with the recent NVDA update.  I wonder if anyone connected with NVDA's development views this as a general problem and if there are any plans to address it.  Not only is NVDA slow to react to text, but it has spasms of silence for many seconds at which times it does not react to up and down arrowing or any other keystrokes.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

Jaffar Sidek <jaffar.sidek10@...>
 

Tb and NVDA has had trouble with each other for the longest time.  What I am doing to get around this is to up the check mail time.  This can be found in Tools>options>general>customize>"Show new mail alerts for". The default check mail frequency is 60 seconds.  I have mine set to 1200 seconds which is 20 minutes.  Sluggishness still does occur, but at least the frequency is cut down a little.  Cheers!

On 8/20/2019 5:54 AM, David Csercsics wrote:
Antivirus isn't the trouble here, as I went to quite a bit of trouble to disable most of Windows defender except for regularly scheduled scans. If I could run without security software I'd do it, as it's typically more of a pain than it's worth.




Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

Andy B.
 

My previous emails on this thread suspect imap with gmail accounts. Be sure to only sync what you need in your client instead of everything. Also keep in mind that if you have a laptop on battery power, NVDA below 2019.3 will be slow.


On 8/19/2019 5:58 PM, Gene wrote:
It should also be inquired what kinds of accounts people are using.  Is the problem limited to IMAP accounts, for example, or common to IMAP and POP3.  Perhaps all those having such problems are using one kind of account and those reporting no problem are using another kind of account. 
 
Can't IMAP be set to automatically download messages, not just show the headers?  what effect does that have.  None of this may make a difference, but then again, it may.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

Hi Rich and all the others having this issue,

I am using NVDA 2019.2 with the Thunderbird enhancement app from NVDA
community with Windows 10 1903 and latest updates and I really am not
seeing this issue.  I wonder what anti virus or anti spyware programs
are being used by those having the sluggishness issues.  In the old
days, many times anti virus programs caused sluggishness with mail
programs as well as other issues.  I am using Windows Defender and
Malware bytes.




On 8/19/2019 12:23 PM, Rich DeSteno wrote:
> I wrote to this list a couple of weeks ago about the increasing
> sluggishness of NVDA, particularly in Thunderbird  Unfortunately, this
> problem did not improve with the recent NVDA update.  I wonder if
> anyone connected with NVDA's development views this as a general
> problem and if there are any plans to address it.  Not only is NVDA
> slow to react to text, but it has spasms of silence for many seconds
> at which times it does not react to up and down arrowing or any other
> keystrokes.
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

Sarah k Alawami
 

I'm using devender as well. And I'm also usign the add on you are using. Still a lot of slowness and lagging issues with nvda and tBird.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 19 Aug 2019, at 14:26, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Rich and all the others having this issue,

I am using NVDA 2019.2 with the Thunderbird enhancement app from NVDA community with Windows 10 1903 and latest updates and I really am not seeing this issue.  I wonder what anti virus or anti spyware programs are being used by those having the sluggishness issues.  In the old days, many times anti virus programs caused sluggishness with mail programs as well as other issues.  I am using Windows Defender and Malware bytes.

On 8/19/2019 12:23 PM, Rich DeSteno wrote:

I wrote to this list a couple of weeks ago about the increasing sluggishness of NVDA, particularly in Thunderbird  Unfortunately, this problem did not improve with the recent NVDA update.  I wonder if anyone connected with NVDA's development views this as a general problem and if there are any plans to address it.  Not only is NVDA slow to react to text, but it has spasms of silence for many seconds at which times it does not react to up and down arrowing or any other keystrokes.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

Andy B.
 

Hi,


I disabled complete sync in TB 68 for one of my Gmail accounts. Will see how it goes on performance for a while. I have a hunch that the lag has something to do with GMail sync downloading everything in the account. When you have over 20,000 emails, it can break any mail client.

On 8/19/2019 5:54 PM, David Csercsics wrote:
Antivirus isn't the trouble here, as I went to quite a bit of trouble to disable most of Windows defender except for regularly scheduled scans. If I could run without security software I'd do it, as it's typically more of a pain than it's worth.




Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

Gene
 

It should also be inquired what kinds of accounts people are using.  Is the problem limited to IMAP accounts, for example, or common to IMAP and POP3.  Perhaps all those having such problems are using one kind of account and those reporting no problem are using another kind of account. 
 
Can't IMAP be set to automatically download messages, not just show the headers?  what effect does that have.  None of this may make a difference, but then again, it may.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

Hi Rich and all the others having this issue,

I am using NVDA 2019.2 with the Thunderbird enhancement app from NVDA
community with Windows 10 1903 and latest updates and I really am not
seeing this issue.  I wonder what anti virus or anti spyware programs
are being used by those having the sluggishness issues.  In the old
days, many times anti virus programs caused sluggishness with mail
programs as well as other issues.  I am using Windows Defender and
Malware bytes.




On 8/19/2019 12:23 PM, Rich DeSteno wrote:
> I wrote to this list a couple of weeks ago about the increasing
> sluggishness of NVDA, particularly in Thunderbird  Unfortunately, this
> problem did not improve with the recent NVDA update.  I wonder if
> anyone connected with NVDA's development views this as a general
> problem and if there are any plans to address it.  Not only is NVDA
> slow to react to text, but it has spasms of silence for many seconds
> at which times it does not react to up and down arrowing or any other
> keystrokes.
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

David Csercsics
 

Antivirus isn't the trouble here, as I went to quite a bit of trouble to disable most of Windows defender except for regularly scheduled scans. If I could run without security software I'd do it, as it's typically more of a pain than it's worth.


Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Rich and all the others having this issue,

I am using NVDA 2019.2 with the Thunderbird enhancement app from NVDA community with Windows 10 1903 and latest updates and I really am not seeing this issue.  I wonder what anti virus or anti spyware programs are being used by those having the sluggishness issues.  In the old days, many times anti virus programs caused sluggishness with mail programs as well as other issues.  I am using Windows Defender and Malware bytes.

On 8/19/2019 12:23 PM, Rich DeSteno wrote:
I wrote to this list a couple of weeks ago about the increasing sluggishness of NVDA, particularly in Thunderbird  Unfortunately, this problem did not improve with the recent NVDA update.  I wonder if anyone connected with NVDA's development views this as a general problem and if there are any plans to address it.  Not only is NVDA slow to react to text, but it has spasms of silence for many seconds at which times it does not react to up and down arrowing or any other keystrokes.
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

Andy B.
 

I am using GMail in Chrome right now. It works fine, but it is too verbose and requires quite a few keyboard shortcuts to get around.


On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 5:17 PM David Csercsics <bleeblat@...> wrote:
Yes, I'm not sure how much of this is NVDA and how much is Thunderbird,
since I have seen Firefox freeze on large pages as well. I'm looking for
possible alternatives, but I've not been able to figure out Windows
mail's weirdness. Some of this is likely Windows 10's fault since these
are older applications, but I think this bug might be really hard to
track down.







Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

David Csercsics
 

Yes, I'm not sure how much of this is NVDA and how much is Thunderbird, since I have seen Firefox freeze on large pages as well. I'm looking for possible alternatives, but I've not been able to figure out Windows mail's weirdness. Some of this is likely Windows 10's fault since these are older applications, but I think this bug might be really hard to track down.


Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

Andy B.
 

Hi,

 

I have similar problems, and am looking for another mail app to use. However, did you try limiting how much email TB pulls down? This is a huge performance problem, especially with gmail accounts.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: brian
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 4:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

 

    When this happpens to me I have to restartmy nvda I also have nvda

2019.2 I have noticed that this problem occures when I turn my computer

on and when I come out of sleep mode.  That might provide some help.

 

Brian Sackrider

 

On 8/19/2019 12:52 PM, Don H wrote:

> I have experienced a couple of  times now since the most recent update

> to NVDA on my Win 10 1903 laptop and latest Thunderbird that when I

> open a message the arrow keys do not work.  Hitting the up and down

> arrow keys does nothing.  I resolved this issue by reloading the NVDA

> addons. It doesn't happen enough for me to start figuring out what is

> happening.

> On 8/19/2019 11:23 AM, Rich DeSteno wrote:

>> I wrote to this list a couple of weeks ago about the increasing

>> sluggishness of NVDA, particularly in Thunderbird  Unfortunately,

>> this problem did not improve with the recent NVDA update.  I wonder

>> if anyone connected with NVDA's development views this as a general

>> problem and if there are any plans to address it.  Not only is NVDA

>> slow to react to text, but it has spasms of silence for many seconds

>> at which times it does not react to up and down arrowing or any other

>> keystrokes.

>> 

>

 

 

 


Re: webpage images with NVDA (was: Why does NVDA not find photos on this website?)

Andy B.
 

Each screen reader has a way of dealing with unlabeled images on the web. JAWS attempts to add an alt attribute automatically by giving the user a choice of reasonable defaults such as a filename. I don’t think NVDA has any reasonable default method for exposing images on websites. However, it’s worth a dev giving this thread feedback on the problem.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Giles Turnbull
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 11:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] webpage images with NVDA (was: Why does NVDA not findphotos on this website?)

 

one further question: is there any reason why an image without an ALT tag is not showing up to NVDA as a graphic? I thought a non-tagged image just used to be spoken as "graphic" but it was still navigable with the g shorcut. Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly.

Giles