Date   

Re: NVDA menu

Luke Davis
 

On Tue, 20 Aug 2019, Gene wrote:

You can also access the system tray icons by installing the system tray add-on and using insert, either insert, f11 to open the system tray dialog.  However
you work with the system tray, you can open the NVDA menu from there.  Use the right click command in the system tray itself, the context menu key.  Just
pressing that key opens the menu.  You may not hear any indication that it is opened, but if you down arrow, you will see all the items in the menu.
You can also just press space on the NVDA icon to open it, if in Windows 10.
Space may be easier, as its a larger key.

Luke


Add-on updates before taking a break: Add-on Updater, Enhanced Touch Gestures, Windows 10 App Essentials #addonrelease

 

Hi all,

 

Three add-on updates are available:

 

  • Add-on Updater 19.09: NotepadPlusPlus add-on from Derek Riemer has been registered for add-on updates. Also, a timeout issue seen when trying to download updates after five minutes of inactivity has been resolved. Note that this add-on requires NVDA 2019.2 from now on.
  • Enhanced Touch Gestures 19.09: in addition to Python 3 compatibility, you can now disable touch support completely from everywhere. Previously you were able to do this if a profile other than normal profile was active. In case you do disable touch support completely, NVDA will play a beep when it starts.
  • Windows 10 App Essentials 19.09: app name and version for various universal apps (including Notepad in 20H1 Preview build 18963 and later) will be fetched via a Windows API function introduced in Windows 8. Also, this add-on brings “always on” mode support for future Calculator releases, and effective with this version, address omnibar in classic Edge is no longer treated as a search field (no more search suggestion sounds).

 

You can visit community add-ons website to download these releases. Alternatively, you can use Add-on Updater to check for updates.

 

And with that, I’m out.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: NVDA menu

Gene
 

Can she access the system tray?  If the Windows key b command is difficult for some reason, she can go to the desktop and shift tab twice. 
 
You can also access the system tray icons by installing the system tray add-on and using insert, either insert, f11 to open the system tray dialog.  However you work with the system tray, you can open the NVDA menu from there.  Use the right click command in the system tray itself, the context menu key.  Just pressing that key opens the menu.  You may not hear any indication that it is opened, but if you down arrow, you will see all the items in the menu.
 
In the system tray dialog, if you are on NVDA, you can either tab to the right click button and press the space bar, or use the command alt r.
 
Gene 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 12:33 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA menu

Is there another way to open the menu other than insert+n? I am working with a lady whose hands are broken so that it is difficult to do many of the key commands. When she tries to press caps loc n I think she accidently hits another key before releasing and it kicks the window right out again. We have been trying to get remote setup so that I can finish setting things up.

 

 ******

Jesus says, follow me and I'll help you through the rough spots.

the world says, hey come with me. My way is broad and easy. So what if you get crap on your shoes. You can always wash it off, can't you!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: webpage images with NVDA (was: Why does NVDA not find photos on this website?)

Giles Turnbull
 

thanks for the replies. I'm very impressed to see a website taking so much time to improve their screen reader accessibility :)

This was the test page that they set up. It contains 4 images of different sorts / ALT tag versions. The fourth one does now get picked up as a graphic by NVDA and the ALT tag is spoken. Graphics 2 and 3 should not have been spoken by NVDA because 2 has an empty ALT tag and 3 is a background image. I am surprised image 1 does not get picked up as a graphic because it does not have any ALT tag.

as to what I'm using ... NVDA 2019.2 and Firefox 68.0.2 (64-bit) on Win10.

The Borrow My Doggy website designers are happy with the feedback in this thread so thanks everybody for that :)

Giles


Re: NVDA and google doc

Mr. Wong Chi Wai, William <cwwong.pro@...>
 

Well, my problem is also found on my Win 10, NVDA 19.2 and latest Firefox.



Andy B. 於 18/8/2019 20:19 寫道:

This is not confirmed in Latest Firefox stable while using NVDA 2019.2 and latest alpha build.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Mr. Wong Chi Wai, William
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2019 7:28 AM
To: NVDA Groups.io mailing list email
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and google doc

 

Hi,

Latest Firefox stable, NVDA 19.1.1

 

When I am editing google doc, NVDA have some problems.

 For example, the doc contain the following

"Heading1

This is the text."

 

If I press home, NVDA speak heading1

if i press right arrow, nvda speak h (where if it is in word, NVDA

should speak e)

if i press right arrow, NVDA speak e, press left arrow, NVDA speak e again.

NVDA always speaking things repeatedly, making editing and deleting word

very complicated.

 

Thanks,

William

 

 

 

 



Re: NVDA menu

Quentin Christensen
 

Sticky Keys that Jackie suggested, lets you press key combinations one key at a time.  So instead of pressing ALT+F4 together to close a window, you press alt, let it go, then press F4 and let it go.  When Sticky keys is enabled, the NVDA key becomes sticky, so you can press caps lock, let it go, then press n and the NVDA menu will open.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 3:41 PM Jackie <abletec@...> wrote:
Robert, 1 thing you may wish to try is to go to "Ease of Access", then
click the "Make the keyboard easier to use" link. Now, click the
"setup sticky keys" & configure them in the way that's best for your
friend.

On 8/19/19, Robert Doc Wright godfearer <godfearer@...> wrote:
> Is there another way to open the menu other than insert+n? I am working with
> a lady whose hands are broken so that it is difficult to do many of the key
> commands. When she tries to press caps loc n I think she accidently hits
> another key before releasing and it kicks the window right out again. We
> have been trying to get remote setup so that I can finish setting things
> up.
>
>  ******
> Jesus says, follow me and I'll help you through the rough spots.
> the world says, hey come with me. My way is broad and easy. So what if you
> get crap on your shoes. You can always wash it off, can't
> you!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                 Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
>
>
>
>


--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brighter-vision.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: NVDA menu

Jackie
 

Robert, 1 thing you may wish to try is to go to "Ease of Access", then
click the "Make the keyboard easier to use" link. Now, click the
"setup sticky keys" & configure them in the way that's best for your
friend.

On 8/19/19, Robert Doc Wright godfearer <godfearer@...> wrote:
Is there another way to open the menu other than insert+n? I am working with
a lady whose hands are broken so that it is difficult to do many of the key
commands. When she tries to press caps loc n I think she accidently hits
another key before releasing and it kicks the window right out again. We
have been trying to get remote setup so that I can finish setting things
up.

 ******
Jesus says, follow me and I'll help you through the rough spots.
the world says, hey come with me. My way is broad and easy. So what if you
get crap on your shoes. You can always wash it off, can't
you!






                Sent from Mail for Windows 10




--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brighter-vision.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


NVDA menu

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 

Is there another way to open the menu other than insert+n? I am working with a lady whose hands are broken so that it is difficult to do many of the key commands. When she tries to press caps loc n I think she accidently hits another key before releasing and it kicks the window right out again. We have been trying to get remote setup so that I can finish setting things up.

 

 ******

Jesus says, follow me and I'll help you through the rough spots.

the world says, hey come with me. My way is broad and easy. So what if you get crap on your shoes. You can always wash it off, can't you!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Gene,

I am using a pop3 account. 



On 8/19/2019 5:58 PM, Gene wrote:
It should also be inquired what kinds of accounts people are using.  Is the problem limited to IMAP accounts, for example, or common to IMAP and POP3.  Perhaps all those having such problems are using one kind of account and those reporting no problem are using another kind of account. 
 
Can't IMAP be set to automatically download messages, not just show the headers?  what effect does that have.  None of this may make a difference, but then again, it may.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Still Sluggish in Thunderbird

Hi Rich and all the others having this issue,

I am using NVDA 2019.2 with the Thunderbird enhancement app from NVDA
community with Windows 10 1903 and latest updates and I really am not
seeing this issue.  I wonder what anti virus or anti spyware programs
are being used by those having the sluggishness issues.  In the old
days, many times anti virus programs caused sluggishness with mail
programs as well as other issues.  I am using Windows Defender and
Malware bytes.




On 8/19/2019 12:23 PM, Rich DeSteno wrote:
> I wrote to this list a couple of weeks ago about the increasing
> sluggishness of NVDA, particularly in Thunderbird  Unfortunately, this
> problem did not improve with the recent NVDA update.  I wonder if
> anyone connected with NVDA's development views this as a general
> problem and if there are any plans to address it.  Not only is NVDA
> slow to react to text, but it has spasms of silence for many seconds
> at which times it does not react to up and down arrowing or any other
> keystrokes.
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


locked Re: publisher

Andy B.
 

This has everything to do with NVDA and add-ons. We are partially there already. Take a look at the add-on DTK found at www.github.com/ajborka/nvda_developer_toolkit. No, the sunset or specific colors will never be accessible in the traditional sense. However, the landscape arranged on the backdrop of a sunset can be made accessible in a traditional sense. A blind person can understand, or learn to understand the placement of objects on a landscape. Top, bottom, to the left of… to the right of… above, below, in front of… behind, height, and width. Microsoft already made this concept accessible in the traditional sense in PowerPoint. A blind person can successfully arrange shapes, graphs/charts, tables, textboxes, images, audio, and other visual media on the slides without much sighted intervention. Web/software design is becoming accessible both in the traditional and modern sense because of the DTK add-on. The next sentence strays from the subject, but I am sure Microsoft has the ability to work some code to make Publisher accessible to screen readers much like they did with PowerPoint, a highly visual tool. I will let the subject rest.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 10:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] publisher

 

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 10:23 PM, Andy B. wrote:

Someone should make this accessible.

Make what accessible?

Publisher files can be saved as, say, PDFs, and when done in that way they're somewhat more accessible.

Publisher is a desktop publishing program.  Text can be read.  I am trying to figure out what, exactly, accessible means in this context.

Just as it's impossible to make an oil painting accessible it's impossible to make certain aspects of things that directly rely on vision accessible.  Accessibility is, plain and simple, a workaround - always has been and always will be.   I have a very dear friend who's been blind since birth, and we both agree that, for certain things, there is no substitute for vision.  She understands things like colors as an abstract classification, but that doesn't mean that color can ever be accessible.  She understands that something having an image of a sunset as the background describes an image, and the sun, but she's never seen a sunrise or sunset and so that image cannot be accessible in any meaningful sense.

If one wants the final output from Publisher to be more accessible to a screen reader user that product would be saved in a file format that's meant for reading, not controlling layout, which is what Publisher's central purpose is.   It's a tool that does its task, which is very heavily visual in nature, as it needs to.

Unless you can get specific about what you mean by "accessible" for a tool that has as its primary purpose visual layout then I don't know what you mean, at all.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

 


locked Re: publisher

 

By the way, I apologize for that last post, not because I believe any of it is incorrect, but it has nothing to do with NVDA.  If anyone wants to continue discussing the philosophy of accessibility, what constitutes accessibility in specific contexts, or MS-Publisher the appropriate venue for that is the Chat Subgroup, not here.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


locked Re: publisher

 

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 10:23 PM, Andy B. wrote:
Someone should make this accessible.
Make what accessible?

Publisher files can be saved as, say, PDFs, and when done in that way they're somewhat more accessible.

Publisher is a desktop publishing program.  Text can be read.  I am trying to figure out what, exactly, accessible means in this context.

Just as it's impossible to make an oil painting accessible it's impossible to make certain aspects of things that directly rely on vision accessible.  Accessibility is, plain and simple, a workaround - always has been and always will be.   I have a very dear friend who's been blind since birth, and we both agree that, for certain things, there is no substitute for vision.  She understands things like colors as an abstract classification, but that doesn't mean that color can ever be accessible.  She understands that something having an image of a sunset as the background describes an image, and the sun, but she's never seen a sunrise or sunset and so that image cannot be accessible in any meaningful sense.

If one wants the final output from Publisher to be more accessible to a screen reader user that product would be saved in a file format that's meant for reading, not controlling layout, which is what Publisher's central purpose is.   It's a tool that does its task, which is very heavily visual in nature, as it needs to.

Unless you can get specific about what you mean by "accessible" for a tool that has as its primary purpose visual layout then I don't know what you mean, at all.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Stepping back from NVDA-related action for a while

 

Dear NVDA users,

 

For those who may not know me: I’m Joseph Lee, one of the contributors to NVDA screen reader project, and the current coordinator for NVDA add-ons community.

 

As some of you may know, NV Access and some in the NVDA community (including yours truly) have been working hard on making NVDA future-proof by moving from Python 2 to Python 3. Python 2 will become part of history next year, and because of this and in consideration for the longevity of the screen reader, Python 3 transition took place throughout June and July. As Quentin pointed out many times, NVDA 2019.2 is based on Python 2, and the next big NVDA update (later this year I believe) will be the one that will be powered by Python 3.

 

Python 3 transition has been an interesting journey for me. As the one who laid the foundation last year, it was exciting to see how it all came together. At the same time, it was stressful – making sure features are working as expected, add-ons are compatible, and communicating the needs of users and developers. To that end, I have made it a priority to make sure fellow users are not forgotten throughout this transition, including notifying the add-ons community about incompatible add-ons, and we are seeing the results of our outreach to add-on authors (the other day, AT Guys tweeted that Code Factory is planning to bring NVDA 2019.3 support for their Vocalizer and Eloquence add-onl I don’t know the full details, so please ask Code Factory, not me). I do confess that, as much as it was a fun journey, Python 3 work has worn me out.

 

Coupled with some important things coming up in my life, I decided that this is the golden opportunity for a break from NVDA world (I haven’t taken a true break from NVDA world in the last seven years I was part of this project). Apart from releasing couple add-on updates in early September, I’ll be stepping away from NVDA-related action. Hopefully I can spring back into action when NVDA 2019.3 is nearing completion to help out with some last minute work on Python 3 transition.

 

A special note for users of my add-ons: all add-on development work will be put on hold until I come back apart from add-on releases planned for early September.

 

Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph


locked Re: publisher

Richard Turner <richardturner42@...>
 

Brian,
Thanks for the better explanation.
I will check it out.

Andy, that someone would be Microsoft.  Perhaps calling their accessibility phone line would be a place to start.  800-936-5900

It might be interesting to try publisher with Narrator as well.
D

Richard

Always look out for #1, and be careful not to step in #2. 


On Aug 19, 2019, at 7:23 PM, Andy B. <sonfire11@...> wrote:



Someone should make this accessible.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Richard Kuzma via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 10:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] publisher

 

Cool.

Did not know/realize that.

I might have to check it out again as it has ben several years since looked at it.

Thanks for the info.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 10:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] publisher

 

Richard,

          You are absolutely correct, though, that a "casual reading" of an unknown Publisher document can be nightmarish, as you don't know where the text boxes are.

          What I'm trying to get across is that if your job is to "work up the weekly newsletter" and you've been famliarized with the template for same, a blind person with a screen reader should be able to do it.  The screen reader will read the text if you know where it's located.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

 


locked Re: publisher

Andy B.
 

Someone should make this accessible.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Richard Kuzma via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 10:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] publisher

 

Cool.

Did not know/realize that.

I might have to check it out again as it has ben several years since looked at it.

Thanks for the info.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 10:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] publisher

 

Richard,

          You are absolutely correct, though, that a "casual reading" of an unknown Publisher document can be nightmarish, as you don't know where the text boxes are.

          What I'm trying to get across is that if your job is to "work up the weekly newsletter" and you've been famliarized with the template for same, a blind person with a screen reader should be able to do it.  The screen reader will read the text if you know where it's located.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

 


locked Re: publisher

Richard Kuzma
 

Cool.

Did not know/realize that.

I might have to check it out again as it has ben several years since looked at it.

Thanks for the info.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 10:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] publisher

 

Richard,

          You are absolutely correct, though, that a "casual reading" of an unknown Publisher document can be nightmarish, as you don't know where the text boxes are.

          What I'm trying to get across is that if your job is to "work up the weekly newsletter" and you've been famliarized with the template for same, a blind person with a screen reader should be able to do it.  The screen reader will read the text if you know where it's located.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: webpage images with NVDA (was: Why does NVDA not find photos on this website?)

Luke Davis
 

On Mon, 19 Aug 2019, Giles Turnbull wrote:

<IMG ALT="this is an image description" SRC="http://...">
I saved a webpage as a file on my laptop and edited the code so the ALT tag followed the SRC link, and NVDA recognised the graphic object.
The order of attributes shouldn't matter at all, as others have said.
What version of NVDA, and what browser/version are you using?

Can you send me a copy of the non-working document off-list, and indicate the name of one of the image files that isn't showing its alt tag?

Luke


locked Re: publisher

 

Richard,

          You are absolutely correct, though, that a "casual reading" of an unknown Publisher document can be nightmarish, as you don't know where the text boxes are.

          What I'm trying to get across is that if your job is to "work up the weekly newsletter" and you've been famliarized with the template for same, a blind person with a screen reader should be able to do it.  The screen reader will read the text if you know where it's located.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


locked Re: publisher

 

Richard,

          If you have Publisher the easiest thing to do is to play with it.   I did a quick test by opening Publisher and using Microsoft's Newsletter template, which I've made easily downloadable from my Google Drive, here:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S0PevbRvxi_xj65jPm55kLmMXh6R5jpi/view?usp=sharing

          If you start hopping around just by tabbing in the document it becomes very obvious when you are in the areas where text exists.  It is not as easy as a word document because one of the big points of publisher is heavy duty formatting, but if someone like Arlene is expected to use it in a setting like she describes the graphic layout should already be done, in its entirety.   A church newsletter, bulletin, whatever you want to call it has a standard layout where the only material that's changing is the weekly text.  After dealing with the template a time or two a blind user should know where the various text boxes are, what their content should be, and probably what will need to go there every week.

           It's not simple, as so much is not simple, but I would expect that anyone who can use MS-Word can use MS-Publisher if they're using a template to fill it in.  Creating something from scratch is something else entirely, as it's darned hard to do complex visual layout when you can't see.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


locked Re: publisher

Richard Turner <richardturner42@...>
 

Well Brian, all I can say is every publisher document I have ever tried to read has been impossible to access.
Could you give more details about how one uses it with a screen reader, or point us to a resource?
Stating I'm wrong is fine, but a bit more detail would be appreciated.
Thanks,

Richard

Always look out for #1, and be careful not to step in #2. 


On Aug 19, 2019, at 5:55 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 08:14 PM, Richard Turner wrote:
It is not possible.  It is all graphics
Absolutely, positively incorrect.   MS-Publisher is every bit as accessible as any of the other Office Suite programs are.

It is far and away not "all graphics."   It's Microsoft's desktop publishing program, which does vary somewhat from a word processor.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide