Date   
Re: how to change bang to exclamation and tick to apostrophe

Annette Moore
 

I did manage to get the apostrophe spoken correctly per Robert's instructions, but I had to use a different synthe than the Windows OneCore voices to do it because none of them would recognize the apostrophe and speak it to me so I knew which symbol to modify. It just appears as a blank space in the OneCore synthe. I should've just used your method, Giles, and gone through the speech dictionary. that probably would've been much less complicated. Well, all's well that ends well. I have my apostrophes spoken correctly now, so that's what matters.

Have a great day!

Annette

On 8/25/2019 8:14 AM, Giles Turnbull wrote:
I added dictionary entries so that they get spoken how I wish. It has worked for me, though I've only done it for the left and right versions, “” and ‘ which I get NVDA to say "left/right quote" for the first pair and "left/right tick" for the second pair. I lived in USA for 5 years so am quite comfrtable with hearing tick instead of apostrophe and bang instead of exclamation mark. I figure you can get NVDA to say anything you wish using the default speach dictionary :)

Giles

Re: Searching for Colored Text

 

Kelby,

I do not know if the github entries referenced here:  http://nabble.nvda-project.org/NVDA-Does-NVDA-read-highlighted-text-td38134.html
will prove helpful, but that topic was posted elsewhere back in 2015 and the ticket(s) have to do with background/foreground color of text.

I know that it's possible to have NVDA tell you what the background color is on the text you are currently viewing is, but I'll be darned if I can remember how to do it.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

Searching for Colored Text

kelby carlson
 

JAWS has a feature where you can get it to skim to parts of documents
where the text is colored or in a certain font/style. Can NVDA do
this? The "skim" feature during say all is much more limited and just
means the speech isn't interrupted.

--
Kelby Carlson

Re: NVDA in Employment

kelby carlson
 

That is extremely helpful. I don't want to name the individual who made these comments, as I suspect many know who he is and he can be somewhat polarizing. With respect to "chattiness", I believe he meant things like announcing too much info when scrolling through Outlook messages—that's the example he gave, at least. I've never seen that to be much of a problem. The biggest deal for me is the lag in many files in Word, though I've never been able to figure out whether that is an NVDA problem. There is also a very strange bug in Outlook where NVDA does not announce messages as I scroll through them; however, this is unique to one specific laptop—my home computer and work desktop don't have this issue.

All that being said, it's interesting to hear your comments about NVDA being implemented widely on corporate nepworks. This person attributed things like that to people choosing the "easy solution" even though it is less efficient. However, I have actually seen NVDA be more efficient in a number of cases; I like it's way of handling navigation better than JAWS's multiple cursors, for one thing.

On Aug 25, 2019, at 2:27 PM, erik burggraaf <erik@...> wrote:

Hi Kelby
On August 25, 2019 7:39:31 AM "kelby carlson" <kelbycarlson@...> wrote:


I hope this isn't too off-topic. I recently heard an argument that NVDA is bad for blind prospect's in employment because it is the "dumbed down" solution.

That sounds like the blather of some one who recommended commercial screen readers for 20 years and is now having their apple cart upset. I've seen this time and time again and will keep seeing it as long as accessibility is a thing. When some one has to use dirision rather than fact to steer you away from one product and ttowards another, an alarm bell should shreek in your head.

The person arguing this elaborated, saying that NVDA is not customizable/flexible enough (too chatty"),

This is a matter of personal preference, but I can make NVDA do the common things such as punctuation level that I sometimes need to configure.

that it was not able to be scripted as easily,

Now, I have heard argued the other point that NVDA is easier to scrypt than jaws and I subscribe to this view. Consider, there are many more python programmers in the world than jaws scripters. A company can script NVDA in house using their own IT department. Otherwise, the company needs to outsource jaws scripting to an access technology professional. The prices I have seen quoted range from $500 per hour to $150 per line.
it didn't work well with as much proprietary software,

An argument that shows no understanding of access technology trends. It is no longer the purview of a screen reader to work with particular software. In the current and emerging model, an operating system creates accessibility API's that comply with recognized standards. Screen readers provide access using the API's and standards. Software manufacturers are increasingly legally and socially obligated to comply with accessibility standards and implement API's and ffeatures for accessibility provided by the system. Employers are increasingly legally and socially obligated to procure technology hardware and software that complies with accessibility standards so that it can work with access technologies. NVDA has been considered the most standards compliant screen rreader for several years as far as I know,.

and that it wouldn't be allowed on secure environments due to being open source.

Extrordinarily foolish. If open source software is insecure, why is it powering the commercial internet? If commercial software is inherantly secure, why do we need to spend billians of dollars protecting windows against viruses? NVD'S licencing makes it time and cost efficient to install across large networks such as call centre floors holding thousands of computer workstations. If your corporate network is secure, than running NVDA can't possibly be less secure than running say adobe reader, which is a known constantly volnerable commercial product.

So my question is this: how many people here use NVDA for work,

I do. I'm a compuuter programming student working as a web application developer for wholenote media in Toronto. I've experienced some of the things members are saying about programming tools such as long delays using intelisense. Not 30 seconds but finger-chompingly long lag. This is the fault of software developers such as Microsoft for not complying with standards or even properly implementing their own API's. At least, if you want me to consider that there might be something in NVDA causing severe lag in microsoft intelisense, how about giving us full access to xaml designer, rad tools, and unit testing among other things. If ms could say their product was up to snuff, then I'd consider that there's an ineficiency in NVDA. Otherwise, autocomplete works well for me in browsers and in VSCode though I haven't tried in notepadplusplus with the add on. We can talk about it when visual studio becomes truly viable for accessibility.

and is there a notable dilerence in level of usability with JAWS?

I couldn't speak to this. I haven't used jaws since the days of 4.5. I have provided some computer training on jaws systems though and have experienced significant frustration using google chrome, excel 2016, windows 10 mail, and other things. In helping jaws users the last year or so, I've seen an issue where displaying web content poops out. Jaws scripts still have a bent for corrupting themselves and needing to be re-installed. And they still haven't figured out how to deal with issues such as laptops switching video cards for various power profiles and ditching the authorization.

I was at the college last week getting set up for my fall semester classes. When I sat down with my access technologist, a nondisabled college employee, he imediately expressed frustration to me over use of jaws in the college. He told me that in general nvda was working much better on college systems than jaws, nvda is superior at the maths I have to do this semester compared to jaws, and he thought for it's effectiveness, jaws was way over priced. This is a complete turnaround from 2.5 years ago when I was registering for courses. At that time, jaws was everything according to this guy. He was extremely skeptical of NVDA and only implemented it for me because I insisted. He was also dead set against mac and has had to rethink that position too. :-)

I've told the story many times about going into the interview at the call centre back in 16. It looked like they were gung hoe to hire me. Their IT guy that I was working with said, "thank god you really wanted NVDA. Jaws won't even load up on our systems for testing." He also told me they would script NVDA in house using their python programmers. I didn't get hired, but I don't think it had anything to do with equipment and resources.

Hope this helps,








Re: NVDA in Employment

 

On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 07:49 AM, Antony Stone wrote:
Proprietary software can hide all sorts of bugs and backdoors the vendor wants
to behind the cloak of secrecy. That's not the same as security.
Just a big, honkin' second and thank you from this member of the peanut gallery!!

You would think, all these decades in, and after the number of times the above scenarios have been proven to have actually occurred, the idea that open-source software, which can be examined, is unsafe relative to proprietary would have died the death it so richly deserves.

Alas . . .
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

Re: NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

kelby carlson
 

Are you sure that is the right command? All that happened was it announced "no selection"; turning keyboard help on revealed that command does not do anything with regard to speech. Furthermore, NVDA is not muted in Kurzweil; it is just when I attempt to use the arrow keys it does not move and announces the same line repeatedly.


On Aug 25, 2019, at 1:06 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

You aren't hearing NVDA because it is scripted to sleep when you are in the Kurzweil window.  Issue the wake up command, shift insert s, when in the window and see if it does what you want when it is running.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

Right now I have Kurzweil's speech muted and was trying to use NVDA, because this is what I did with JAWS; I don't like the Kurzweil voices very much. But it sounds like I will not be able to use NVDA that way.


On Aug 25, 2019, at 11:57 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I should have said shift insert s. 
 
Also, that puts NVDA to sleep when you are in the window where you issued the command.  If you move out of the program, NVDA will wake up.  If you return to the window, it will sleep.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

Did you really mean to say insert control S?

On my NVDA in Desktop layout that simply brings up the list of synthesiser group options, Sapi 4, Sapi 5, one core voices and no speech.and

 

I might be reading your email incorrectly.

David Griffith

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: 25 August 2019 16:36
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

 

If NVDA doesn't automatically go to sleep in NVDA, it should be scripted to do so.  But if you want to use the Numpad with NVDA, it should be put to sleep, not just stop speech.  And there may be other commands that NVDA conflicts with.  Also, if you stop speech, you won't hear error messages, such as from the scanner or when Kurzweil crashes.  You will have speech off and won't hear anything.  If you put it to sleep, if an error message comes up and takes you to the error message Window, NVDA will wake up and read it, as well as be completely functional.  It only sleeps when in the Kurzweil Window. 

 

In general, NVDA should be put to sleep in self-voicing applications, not just turn off the synthesizer. 

 

I just checked.  The command to toggle sleep mode on and off is control insert, either insert, s.  That is for the desktop layout.  I don't know what it is for the laptop layout.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 9:37 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

 

 

Yes Kurzweil works with NVDA though for best results you need to mute speech in one of the applications as they will otherwise talk together.

I normally just use NVDA plus s to toggle speech off whilst in Kurzweil.

Specifically I have just opened a PDF in Kurzweil using NvDA and after muting speech with NVDA the document read perfectly normally in Kurzweil using arrow keys and other expected commands.

This is with Win 10, Kurzweil 14 desktop version and latest NVDA.

I do not use the Windows 10 app version of Kurzweil so cannot comment on this.

David Griffith

 

David Griffith

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: kelby carlson
Sent: 25 August 2019 13:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

 

Does NVDA work with Kurzweil 1000? When I try to do OCR on a PDF, the arrow keys and other navigation keys seem to do nothing.

 

 

 

 

Re: NVDA in Employment

erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

Hi Kelby

On August 25, 2019 7:39:31 AM "kelby carlson" <kelbycarlson@...> wrote:


I hope this isn't too off-topic. I recently heard an argument that NVDA is bad for blind prospect's in employment because it is the "dumbed down" solution.

That sounds like the blather of some one who recommended commercial screen readers for 20 years and is now having their apple cart upset. I've seen this time and time again and will keep seeing it as long as accessibility is a thing. When some one has to use dirision rather than fact to steer you away from one product and ttowards another, an alarm bell should shreek in your head.

The person arguing this elaborated, saying that NVDA is not customizable/flexible enough (too chatty"),

This is a matter of personal preference, but I can make NVDA do the common things such as punctuation level that I sometimes need to configure.

that it was not able to be scripted as easily,

Now, I have heard argued the other point that NVDA is easier to scrypt than jaws and I subscribe to this view. Consider, there are many more python programmers in the world than jaws scripters. A company can script NVDA in house using their own IT department. Otherwise, the company needs to outsource jaws scripting to an access technology professional. The prices I have seen quoted range from $500 per hour to $150 per line.
it didn't work well with as much proprietary software,

An argument that shows no understanding of access technology trends. It is no longer the purview of a screen reader to work with particular software. In the current and emerging model, an operating system creates accessibility API's that comply with recognized standards. Screen readers provide access using the API's and standards. Software manufacturers are increasingly legally and socially obligated to comply with accessibility standards and implement API's and ffeatures for accessibility provided by the system. Employers are increasingly legally and socially obligated to procure technology hardware and software that complies with accessibility standards so that it can work with access technologies. NVDA has been considered the most standards compliant screen rreader for several years as far as I know,.

and that it wouldn't be allowed on secure environments due to being open source.

Extrordinarily foolish. If open source software is insecure, why is it powering the commercial internet? If commercial software is inherantly secure, why do we need to spend billians of dollars protecting windows against viruses? NVD'S licencing makes it time and cost efficient to install across large networks such as call centre floors holding thousands of computer workstations. If your corporate network is secure, than running NVDA can't possibly be less secure than running say adobe reader, which is a known constantly volnerable commercial product.

So my question is this: how many people here use NVDA for work,

I do. I'm a compuuter programming student working as a web application developer for wholenote media in Toronto. I've experienced some of the things members are saying about programming tools such as long delays using intelisense. Not 30 seconds but finger-chompingly long lag. This is the fault of software developers such as Microsoft for not complying with standards or even properly implementing their own API's. At least, if you want me to consider that there might be something in NVDA causing severe lag in microsoft intelisense, how about giving us full access to xaml designer, rad tools, and unit testing among other things. If ms could say their product was up to snuff, then I'd consider that there's an ineficiency in NVDA. Otherwise, autocomplete works well for me in browsers and in VSCode though I haven't tried in notepadplusplus with the add on. We can talk about it when visual studio becomes truly viable for accessibility.

and is there a notable dilerence in level of usability with JAWS?

I couldn't speak to this. I haven't used jaws since the days of 4.5. I have provided some computer training on jaws systems though and have experienced significant frustration using google chrome, excel 2016, windows 10 mail, and other things. In helping jaws users the last year or so, I've seen an issue where displaying web content poops out. Jaws scripts still have a bent for corrupting themselves and needing to be re-installed. And they still haven't figured out how to deal with issues such as laptops switching video cards for various power profiles and ditching the authorization.

I was at the college last week getting set up for my fall semester classes. When I sat down with my access technologist, a nondisabled college employee, he imediately expressed frustration to me over use of jaws in the college. He told me that in general nvda was working much better on college systems than jaws, nvda is superior at the maths I have to do this semester compared to jaws, and he thought for it's effectiveness, jaws was way over priced. This is a complete turnaround from 2.5 years ago when I was registering for courses. At that time, jaws was everything according to this guy. He was extremely skeptical of NVDA and only implemented it for me because I insisted. He was also dead set against mac and has had to rethink that position too. :-)

I've told the story many times about going into the interview at the call centre back in 16. It looked like they were gung hoe to hire me. Their IT guy that I was working with said, "thank god you really wanted NVDA. Jaws won't even load up on our systems for testing." He also told me they would script NVDA in house using their python programmers. I didn't get hired, but I don't think it had anything to do with equipment and resources.

Hope this helps,

Re: A point on email clients

 

Windows Live Mail 2012 is still working just fine as a straight e-mail client, and there are no reports, yet, of any significant security risks stemming from its use since it's out of support.

I archived the Windows Essentials 2012 installer, of which Windows Live Mail is one of the selectable essentials that can be installed alone, about a week before it was pulled from Microsoft's own web site.   If anyone wants same, here it is:  Windows Live Mail (Windows Essentials) 2012 (ZIP format)
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

Re: A point on email clients

Vincent Le Goff
 

I don’t really mind menu or ribbons, so I guess I should try for the ribbon one, might be easier to keep around for awhile!  I’m running on the Windows native mail app right now and it’s fairly accessible, the second try proved much worth it.  I just don’t see what I’m writing in Braille unless I press a navigation key, which is a bit odd but not a real problem seeing how fluid the app is.  But I’ll test WLM!

 

Thanks,

 

Vincent

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 7:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A point on email clients

 

Not necessarily.  We don't know if the downloader has a problem.  If you want, someone on the list who definitely has a good copy, and it must be a full installer, can send it to you.  Do you want the older menu or the newer ribbon version?  As far as I know, they can both be used in Windows 7 and 10 but I haven't tried running the menu version in newer versions of Windows.

 

Gene

-----

 

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 12:14 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] A point on email clients

 

I understand.  I have found WLM on a secondary website but it gives me an error (can't install Windows Live Mail on your computer) when installation reaches 64%, so I guess that's out.  Microsoft recommends using the native mail app on Windows 10, but I guess it's not as accessible (though I've given it a small try and will try again right away, you never know!).

 

Vincent

On 8/25/2019 7:10 PM, Gene wrote:

I mean that you have to sign into something in Windows Live Mail itself.  Microsoft won't see your Windows Live Mail information just because you have a Microsoft account, if you do.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 11:28 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] A point on email clients

 

Hi Gene,

 

Thanks for y6our answer.  Hehe, I think Microsoft has enough data on me, giving it my email doesn't sound great.  But yeah, let's imagine they don't keep this data!  As I was saying I really can't use Thunderbird much (even writing this somewhat short message is a pain).

 

I've tried eM client today, light and fast, like I wanted, but not accessible as far as I can tell.  So I guess I will need to find WLM somewhere.  But I must admit it's a big disappointment to me who places so much on open- source technology, so going from Thunderbird to Microsoft is a downgrade, not in terms of feature, but in terms of philosophy, if that makes any sense.

 

Thanks again,

 

Vincent

On 8/25/2019 6:10 PM, Gene wrote:

What is wrong with using Windows Live Mail?  And what is wrong with using Microsoft products in general?  Some of the utilities and programs included with Windows are designed to be easy to use and don't have options more advanced or demanding users might want or need.  But a general avoidance of Microsoft products may lead to unnecessary problems or unnecessary time and effort looking for something else that works well. 

 

Windows Live Mail is completely accessible.  you can use the old menu version or the newer ribbon version.  You have to get it from someone, because Microsoft no longer supports and distributes it. 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:58 AM

Subject: [nvda] A point on email clients

 

Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting
worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The
client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users
but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few
seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on
Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a
fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails
(yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious,
is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too
well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many
choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client
specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the
name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what
are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few
requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for
several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used
to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent


 

Re: A point on email clients

Gene
 

Not necessarily.  We don't know if the downloader has a problem.  If you want, someone on the list who definitely has a good copy, and it must be a full installer, can send it to you.  Do you want the older menu or the newer ribbon version?  As far as I know, they can both be used in Windows 7 and 10 but I haven't tried running the menu version in newer versions of Windows.
 
Gene
-----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A point on email clients

I understand.  I have found WLM on a secondary website but it gives me an error (can't install Windows Live Mail on your computer) when installation reaches 64%, so I guess that's out.  Microsoft recommends using the native mail app on Windows 10, but I guess it's not as accessible (though I've given it a small try and will try again right away, you never know!).


Vincent

On 8/25/2019 7:10 PM, Gene wrote:
I mean that you have to sign into something in Windows Live Mail itself.  Microsoft won't see your Windows Live Mail information just because you have a Microsoft account, if you do.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi Gene,


Thanks for y6our answer.  Hehe, I think Microsoft has enough data on me, giving it my email doesn't sound great.  But yeah, let's imagine they don't keep this data!  As I was saying I really can't use Thunderbird much (even writing this somewhat short message is a pain).


I've tried eM client today, light and fast, like I wanted, but not accessible as far as I can tell.  So I guess I will need to find WLM somewhere.  But I must admit it's a big disappointment to me who places so much on open- source technology, so going from Thunderbird to Microsoft is a downgrade, not in terms of feature, but in terms of philosophy, if that makes any sense.


Thanks again,


Vincent

On 8/25/2019 6:10 PM, Gene wrote:
What is wrong with using Windows Live Mail?  And what is wrong with using Microsoft products in general?  Some of the utilities and programs included with Windows are designed to be easy to use and don't have options more advanced or demanding users might want or need.  But a general avoidance of Microsoft products may lead to unnecessary problems or unnecessary time and effort looking for something else that works well. 
 
Windows Live Mail is completely accessible.  you can use the old menu version or the newer ribbon version.  You have to get it from someone, because Microsoft no longer supports and distributes it. 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:58 AM
Subject: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting
worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The
client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users
but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few
seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on
Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a
fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails
(yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious,
is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too
well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many
choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client
specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the
name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what
are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few
requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for
several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used
to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent



Re: A point on email clients

Jason White
 

Microsoft Outlook is very accessible. It supports IMAP servers as well as Microsoft Exchange. It's already available to you if you have Microsoft Office installed.

I've used various email clients under different operating system. Microsoft Outlook is undoubtedly among the best of them.

I've used Thunderbird under Linux, but not Windows, so I can't comment on your issues with it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Vincent Le Goff
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 11:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community. The client is getting extremely sluggish. It behaves well for sighted users but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on Braille. Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails (yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems. The first, and obvious,
is: what to use now? Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many choices. For awhile I heard about an open-source email client specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what are you using? What would be more fitting with NVDA? I have a few
requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent

Re: A point on email clients

Lukasz Golonka
 

Hello,

On Sun, 25 Aug 2019 17:58:03 +0200
"Vincent Le Goff" <vincent.legoff.srs@...> wrote:

So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few requirements:
I am personally using Becky Internet Maill. She is not open source nor free but is extremely fast and configurable.

- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.
My main machine is not running on Windows 10 at the moment but when it was there were no problems.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for several email accounts and simple switches between them.
You just have to press F4, choose account you want and press tab to go to the inbox.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used to retreieve messages.
No problems there.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.
Also no problem.


Before you would get to excited it is important to note that Becky is not as accessible as Thunderbird. To be exact sorting messages must be done by simulating mouse clicks, selection in edit fields isn't reported though you can use block selection commands to work around it and say all only partially works.
If you decide to try her and you would be having problems I can help if you'd like.

--
Regards
Lukasz

Re: A point on email clients

Vincent Le Goff
 

I understand.  I have found WLM on a secondary website but it gives me an error (can't install Windows Live Mail on your computer) when installation reaches 64%, so I guess that's out.  Microsoft recommends using the native mail app on Windows 10, but I guess it's not as accessible (though I've given it a small try and will try again right away, you never know!).


Vincent

On 8/25/2019 7:10 PM, Gene wrote:
I mean that you have to sign into something in Windows Live Mail itself.  Microsoft won't see your Windows Live Mail information just because you have a Microsoft account, if you do.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi Gene,


Thanks for y6our answer.  Hehe, I think Microsoft has enough data on me, giving it my email doesn't sound great.  But yeah, let's imagine they don't keep this data!  As I was saying I really can't use Thunderbird much (even writing this somewhat short message is a pain).


I've tried eM client today, light and fast, like I wanted, but not accessible as far as I can tell.  So I guess I will need to find WLM somewhere.  But I must admit it's a big disappointment to me who places so much on open- source technology, so going from Thunderbird to Microsoft is a downgrade, not in terms of feature, but in terms of philosophy, if that makes any sense.


Thanks again,


Vincent

On 8/25/2019 6:10 PM, Gene wrote:
What is wrong with using Windows Live Mail?  And what is wrong with using Microsoft products in general?  Some of the utilities and programs included with Windows are designed to be easy to use and don't have options more advanced or demanding users might want or need.  But a general avoidance of Microsoft products may lead to unnecessary problems or unnecessary time and effort looking for something else that works well. 
 
Windows Live Mail is completely accessible.  you can use the old menu version or the newer ribbon version.  You have to get it from someone, because Microsoft no longer supports and distributes it. 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:58 AM
Subject: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting
worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The
client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users
but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few
seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on
Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a
fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails
(yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious,
is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too
well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many
choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client
specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the
name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what
are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few
requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for
several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used
to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent



Re: A point on email clients

 

There is no other option. The only accessible open source email client is TB. OE Classic is freeware, and not open source, but there is no other option, at all, for open source email clients.

Re: A point on email clients

Gene
 

I mean that you have to sign into something in Windows Live Mail itself.  Microsoft won't see your Windows Live Mail information just because you have a Microsoft account, if you do.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi Gene,


Thanks for y6our answer.  Hehe, I think Microsoft has enough data on me, giving it my email doesn't sound great.  But yeah, let's imagine they don't keep this data!  As I was saying I really can't use Thunderbird much (even writing this somewhat short message is a pain).


I've tried eM client today, light and fast, like I wanted, but not accessible as far as I can tell.  So I guess I will need to find WLM somewhere.  But I must admit it's a big disappointment to me who places so much on open- source technology, so going from Thunderbird to Microsoft is a downgrade, not in terms of feature, but in terms of philosophy, if that makes any sense.


Thanks again,


Vincent

On 8/25/2019 6:10 PM, Gene wrote:
What is wrong with using Windows Live Mail?  And what is wrong with using Microsoft products in general?  Some of the utilities and programs included with Windows are designed to be easy to use and don't have options more advanced or demanding users might want or need.  But a general avoidance of Microsoft products may lead to unnecessary problems or unnecessary time and effort looking for something else that works well. 
 
Windows Live Mail is completely accessible.  you can use the old menu version or the newer ribbon version.  You have to get it from someone, because Microsoft no longer supports and distributes it. 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:58 AM
Subject: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting
worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The
client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users
but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few
seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on
Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a
fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails
(yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious,
is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too
well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many
choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client
specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the
name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what
are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few
requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for
several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used
to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent



Re: A point on email clients

Gene
 

It won't see your e-mail.  it won't see your addressbook either unless you specifically sign into something, I'm not sure what.  I have never signed in to whatever Windows Live Mail gives you the opportunity to sign into. 
 
Gene
----- original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi Gene,


Thanks for y6our answer.  Hehe, I think Microsoft has enough data on me, giving it my email doesn't sound great.  But yeah, let's imagine they don't keep this data!  As I was saying I really can't use Thunderbird much (even writing this somewhat short message is a pain).


I've tried eM client today, light and fast, like I wanted, but not accessible as far as I can tell.  So I guess I will need to find WLM somewhere.  But I must admit it's a big disappointment to me who places so much on open- source technology, so going from Thunderbird to Microsoft is a downgrade, not in terms of feature, but in terms of philosophy, if that makes any sense.


Thanks again,


Vincent

On 8/25/2019 6:10 PM, Gene wrote:
What is wrong with using Windows Live Mail?  And what is wrong with using Microsoft products in general?  Some of the utilities and programs included with Windows are designed to be easy to use and don't have options more advanced or demanding users might want or need.  But a general avoidance of Microsoft products may lead to unnecessary problems or unnecessary time and effort looking for something else that works well. 
 
Windows Live Mail is completely accessible.  you can use the old menu version or the newer ribbon version.  You have to get it from someone, because Microsoft no longer supports and distributes it. 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:58 AM
Subject: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting
worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The
client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users
but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few
seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on
Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a
fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails
(yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious,
is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too
well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many
choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client
specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the
name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what
are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few
requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for
several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used
to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent



Re: NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

Gene
 

You aren't hearing NVDA because it is scripted to sleep when you are in the Kurzweil window.  Issue the wake up command, shift insert s, when in the window and see if it does what you want when it is running.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

Right now I have Kurzweil's speech muted and was trying to use NVDA, because this is what I did with JAWS; I don't like the Kurzweil voices very much. But it sounds like I will not be able to use NVDA that way.


On Aug 25, 2019, at 11:57 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I should have said shift insert s. 
 
Also, that puts NVDA to sleep when you are in the window where you issued the command.  If you move out of the program, NVDA will wake up.  If you return to the window, it will sleep.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

Did you really mean to say insert control S?

On my NVDA in Desktop layout that simply brings up the list of synthesiser group options, Sapi 4, Sapi 5, one core voices and no speech.and

 

I might be reading your email incorrectly.

David Griffith

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: 25 August 2019 16:36
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

 

If NVDA doesn't automatically go to sleep in NVDA, it should be scripted to do so.  But if you want to use the Numpad with NVDA, it should be put to sleep, not just stop speech.  And there may be other commands that NVDA conflicts with.  Also, if you stop speech, you won't hear error messages, such as from the scanner or when Kurzweil crashes.  You will have speech off and won't hear anything.  If you put it to sleep, if an error message comes up and takes you to the error message Window, NVDA will wake up and read it, as well as be completely functional.  It only sleeps when in the Kurzweil Window. 

 

In general, NVDA should be put to sleep in self-voicing applications, not just turn off the synthesizer. 

 

I just checked.  The command to toggle sleep mode on and off is control insert, either insert, s.  That is for the desktop layout.  I don't know what it is for the laptop layout.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 9:37 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

 

 

Yes Kurzweil works with NVDA though for best results you need to mute speech in one of the applications as they will otherwise talk together.

I normally just use NVDA plus s to toggle speech off whilst in Kurzweil.

Specifically I have just opened a PDF in Kurzweil using NvDA and after muting speech with NVDA the document read perfectly normally in Kurzweil using arrow keys and other expected commands.

This is with Win 10, Kurzweil 14 desktop version and latest NVDA.

I do not use the Windows 10 app version of Kurzweil so cannot comment on this.

David Griffith

 

David Griffith

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: kelby carlson
Sent: 25 August 2019 13:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

 

Does NVDA work with Kurzweil 1000? When I try to do OCR on a PDF, the arrow keys and other navigation keys seem to do nothing.

 

 

 

 

Re: how to change bang to exclamation and tick to apostrophe

Gene
 

I suspect it is to save time when reading. 
I'm not sure where bang and tick are used but I think they may be used in some sort of communication where brevity is wanted, such as Morse Code.
 
Also, this sort of thing isn't just used in NVDA.  Window-eyes used bang, as I recall.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Laz
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to change bang to exclamation and tick to apostrophe

Maybe that is standard in Australia where NVDA is developed.

Laz

On 8/25/19, Peter Beasley <pjbeasley23@...> wrote:
> Why does NVDA say Banf
>  And Tick instead of exclamation and apostrophe as standard.
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Chris Mullins
> Sent: 25 August 2019 14:26
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] how to change bang to exclamation and tick to
> apostrophe
>
> Hi
> The instructions given are correct.  Note there are 2 entries each for bang
> and tick, you will have to enter a new replacement for all entries.
>
> Cheers
> Chris
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis
> L
> Sent: 25 August 2019 10:32
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] how to change bang to exclamation and tick to
> apostrophe
>
> Those instructions didn’t work.
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Doc
> Wright godfearer
> Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 4:42 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] how to change bang to exclamation and tick to
> apostrophe
>
> Open NVDA  menu
> Preferences
> Punctuation/symbol pronunciation
> Arrow down to the symbol you wish to change and tab once. Clear the field
> and type what you want to hear.
>
>  ******
> Jesus says, follow me and I'll help you through the rough spots.
> the world says, hey come with me. My way is broad and easy. So what if you
> get crap on your shoes. You can always wash it off, can't
> you!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                 Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Dennis L
> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2019 11:56 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: [nvda] how to change bang to exclamation and tick to apostrophe
>
> Hi, how  do I   change bang to exclamation and tick to apostrophe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Players, Accessible phones,
Bluetooth devices, and accessories
http://www.talkingmp3players.com/
Email: laz@...
Phone: 727-498-0121
Skype: lazmesa
Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr


Re: A point on email clients

Vincent Le Goff
 

Hi Gene,


Thanks for y6our answer.  Hehe, I think Microsoft has enough data on me, giving it my email doesn't sound great.  But yeah, let's imagine they don't keep this data!  As I was saying I really can't use Thunderbird much (even writing this somewhat short message is a pain).


I've tried eM client today, light and fast, like I wanted, but not accessible as far as I can tell.  So I guess I will need to find WLM somewhere.  But I must admit it's a big disappointment to me who places so much on open- source technology, so going from Thunderbird to Microsoft is a downgrade, not in terms of feature, but in terms of philosophy, if that makes any sense.


Thanks again,


Vincent

On 8/25/2019 6:10 PM, Gene wrote:
What is wrong with using Windows Live Mail?  And what is wrong with using Microsoft products in general?  Some of the utilities and programs included with Windows are designed to be easy to use and don't have options more advanced or demanding users might want or need.  But a general avoidance of Microsoft products may lead to unnecessary problems or unnecessary time and effort looking for something else that works well. 
 
Windows Live Mail is completely accessible.  you can use the old menu version or the newer ribbon version.  You have to get it from someone, because Microsoft no longer supports and distributes it. 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:58 AM
Subject: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting
worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The
client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users
but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few
seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on
Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a
fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails
(yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious,
is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too
well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many
choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client
specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the
name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what
are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few
requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for
several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used
to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent



Re: NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

kelby carlson
 

Right now I have Kurzweil's speech muted and was trying to use NVDA, because this is what I did with JAWS; I don't like the Kurzweil voices very much. But it sounds like I will not be able to use NVDA that way.


On Aug 25, 2019, at 11:57 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I should have said shift insert s. 
 
Also, that puts NVDA to sleep when you are in the window where you issued the command.  If you move out of the program, NVDA will wake up.  If you return to the window, it will sleep.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

Did you really mean to say insert control S?

On my NVDA in Desktop layout that simply brings up the list of synthesiser group options, Sapi 4, Sapi 5, one core voices and no speech.and

 

I might be reading your email incorrectly.

David Griffith

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: 25 August 2019 16:36
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

 

If NVDA doesn't automatically go to sleep in NVDA, it should be scripted to do so.  But if you want to use the Numpad with NVDA, it should be put to sleep, not just stop speech.  And there may be other commands that NVDA conflicts with.  Also, if you stop speech, you won't hear error messages, such as from the scanner or when Kurzweil crashes.  You will have speech off and won't hear anything.  If you put it to sleep, if an error message comes up and takes you to the error message Window, NVDA will wake up and read it, as well as be completely functional.  It only sleeps when in the Kurzweil Window. 

 

In general, NVDA should be put to sleep in self-voicing applications, not just turn off the synthesizer. 

 

I just checked.  The command to toggle sleep mode on and off is control insert, either insert, s.  That is for the desktop layout.  I don't know what it is for the laptop layout.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 9:37 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

 

 

Yes Kurzweil works with NVDA though for best results you need to mute speech in one of the applications as they will otherwise talk together.

I normally just use NVDA plus s to toggle speech off whilst in Kurzweil.

Specifically I have just opened a PDF in Kurzweil using NvDA and after muting speech with NVDA the document read perfectly normally in Kurzweil using arrow keys and other expected commands.

This is with Win 10, Kurzweil 14 desktop version and latest NVDA.

I do not use the Windows 10 app version of Kurzweil so cannot comment on this.

David Griffith

 

David Griffith

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: kelby carlson
Sent: 25 August 2019 13:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

 

Does NVDA work with Kurzweil 1000? When I try to do OCR on a PDF, the arrow keys and other navigation keys seem to do nothing.