Date   

Re: The new microsoft edge chromium based browser troubles with nvda not going to browse mode

 

NVDA Focus mode is the equivalent of JAWS Forms mode

NVDA Browse mode is the equivalent of what I thought JAWS itself called Browse mode.

If you're not in a control where data entry is possible like a text edit box, radio button, etc. and are able to quick navigate from control to control using the single letter shortcuts or are able to use a screen reader search to find things you are in NVDA Browse mode.

Someone put me out of my misery and tell me what JAWS calls its equivalent if it's not also browse mode (as I suspect it isn't and I can't pull up that mode from memory for love nor money right now). 


--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: The new microsoft edge chromium based browser troubles with nvda not going to browse mode

Mr. Ed <pinky14@...>
 

Hi,

I am an old Jaws user and I am not understanding what brows mode is on nvda. Can someone explain it to me. Thanks in advance.

Mr. Ed


number of emails not spoken in outlook

Mr. Ed <pinky14@...>
 

Hi,

I am a new user to NVDA. I am using Outlook 2010 and when I arrow down my list of folders NVDA does not announce how many emails are in the folder. Is this an issue with nvda?

Mr. Ed


Re: NVDA in Employment

g melconian
 

Do agree with you.  Don’t want to be locked to one provider.what happens if that provider goes belly up and or something happens what happens to that low vision or blind employee. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 8:08 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in Employment

 

It’s interesting you should say this because where I work we don’t have any contracts with Vispero. So we can teach NVDA which is a good thing alongside of other solutions and I’d rather not us get contracted by Vispero because I detest their anticompetitive nature. Yes JAWS might have been a good program and probably still is in some areas but it’s their anticompetitive nature that  is part of the problem as well and I never thought when I started on computers in 1993 that we would have a company that monopolised the assistive technology market and I always thought the agencies would encourage client choice and provide a range of solutions as the only way that screen readers back in the day like JAWS, and when it was alive, Window-Eyes, could really be funded is via agencies.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 7:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in Employment

 

I did bring this up with my BSB here but they don't want to listen. It's jaws or nothing at all, but I think his is because they are paid by our govermment to teach jaws not NVDA so they will probably lose money from the government. Same with employers. If they ave a contract with visparo then they probably cannot teach NVDA or let you use it.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 25 Aug 2019, at 22:48, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Indeed Austin!  I think the misconception is that any malicious hacker can edit the code of any open source project - which completely misses how open source projects work.  Yes, anyone can submit a pull request (submit code) for NVDA, but before it goes into the final product, it needs to be reviewed by the core developers, and if you download NVDA from the official source, it's just as robust and secure as downloading any other (closed or open source) program from its official download page.

 

Also, I must apologise to Kelby - I inadvertently typed "Kelly" in my previous email, so my apologies Kelby!

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 3:34 PM Austin Pinto <austinpinto.xaviers@...> wrote:

if open source software are not secure how is Linux powering most web servers?
some1 can make changes to the Linux kernel and do what they want.

On 8/26/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
> Hi Kelly,
>
> I see the skim reading question has been addressed, and I'll leave others
> to answer which screen reader they prefer, but in terms of using NVDA in a
> work environment, we certainly do have a lot of users who use NVDA in that
> context, both employees and also employers or institutions setting up NVDA
> in say, university labs, libraries or other public computers.
>
> For anyone looking into this either as an employer or an employee looking
> for information for their workplace, we have a page at
> https://www.nvaccess.org/corporate-government/ which answers a lot of
> common questions (including the security options within NVDA, and
> addressing the (unfounded) concern around the security of open-source
> software.
>
> If anyone (or any potential employers) have any lingering concerns, please
> do get in touch (or get them in touch) with us - info@... is the
> easiest way - and we'd be happy to discuss any concerns.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Quentin.
>
> On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 9:38 PM kelby carlson <kelbycarlson@...>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, everyone,
>>
>> I hope this isn't too off-topic. I recently heard an argument that NVDA
>> is
>> bad for blind prospect's in employment because it is the "dumbed down"
>> solution. The person arguing this elaborated, saying that NVDA is not
>> customizable/flexible enough (too chatty"), that it was not able to be
>> scripted as easily, it didn't work well with as much proprietary
>> software,
>> and that it wouldn't be allowed on secure environments due to being open
>> source.
>>
>> So my question is this: how many people here use NVDA for work, and is
>> there a notable dilerence in level of usability with JAWS?
>>
>> Also, does NVDA have a skim reading feature like JAWS?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> Web: www.nvaccess.org
> Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
> Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
> User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
>
>
>
>


--
search for me on facebook, google+, orkut..
austinpinto.xaviers@...
follow me on twitter.
austinmpinto
contact me on skype.
austin.pinto3


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Re: NVDA in Employment

g melconian
 

It’s the same way if they have Apple I devices in the building and sometimes or won’t allow for Google devices whether that  be chrome books or android devices. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 7:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in Employment

 

I did bring this up with my BSB here but they don't want to listen. It's jaws or nothing at all, but I think his is because they are paid by our govermment to teach jaws not NVDA so they will probably lose money from the government. Same with employers. If they ave a contract with visparo then they probably cannot teach NVDA or let you use it.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 25 Aug 2019, at 22:48, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Indeed Austin!  I think the misconception is that any malicious hacker can edit the code of any open source project - which completely misses how open source projects work.  Yes, anyone can submit a pull request (submit code) for NVDA, but before it goes into the final product, it needs to be reviewed by the core developers, and if you download NVDA from the official source, it's just as robust and secure as downloading any other (closed or open source) program from its official download page.

 

Also, I must apologise to Kelby - I inadvertently typed "Kelly" in my previous email, so my apologies Kelby!

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 3:34 PM Austin Pinto <austinpinto.xaviers@...> wrote:

if open source software are not secure how is Linux powering most web servers?
some1 can make changes to the Linux kernel and do what they want.

On 8/26/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
> Hi Kelly,
>
> I see the skim reading question has been addressed, and I'll leave others
> to answer which screen reader they prefer, but in terms of using NVDA in a
> work environment, we certainly do have a lot of users who use NVDA in that
> context, both employees and also employers or institutions setting up NVDA
> in say, university labs, libraries or other public computers.
>
> For anyone looking into this either as an employer or an employee looking
> for information for their workplace, we have a page at
> https://www.nvaccess.org/corporate-government/ which answers a lot of
> common questions (including the security options within NVDA, and
> addressing the (unfounded) concern around the security of open-source
> software.
>
> If anyone (or any potential employers) have any lingering concerns, please
> do get in touch (or get them in touch) with us - info@... is the
> easiest way - and we'd be happy to discuss any concerns.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Quentin.
>
> On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 9:38 PM kelby carlson <kelbycarlson@...>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, everyone,
>>
>> I hope this isn't too off-topic. I recently heard an argument that NVDA
>> is
>> bad for blind prospect's in employment because it is the "dumbed down"
>> solution. The person arguing this elaborated, saying that NVDA is not
>> customizable/flexible enough (too chatty"), that it was not able to be
>> scripted as easily, it didn't work well with as much proprietary
>> software,
>> and that it wouldn't be allowed on secure environments due to being open
>> source.
>>
>> So my question is this: how many people here use NVDA for work, and is
>> there a notable dilerence in level of usability with JAWS?
>>
>> Also, does NVDA have a skim reading feature like JAWS?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> Web: www.nvaccess.org
> Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
> Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
> User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
>
>
>
>


--
search for me on facebook, google+, orkut..
austinpinto.xaviers@...
follow me on twitter.
austinmpinto
contact me on skype.
austin.pinto3



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Re: Outlook Bug When Scrolling Through Messages

erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

Does this computer run off of a corporate intranet? I had a college laptop like this. It wasn't doing everything in the cloud, but it was making me log in to the college for authentication and things like windows update deployment.

Similarly, is your outlook PST file stored locally or on your company's server under your account?

If the .PST is stored locally, have you tried tools to repair it? Similarly, have you tried running tools to repair or clean the registry?

I'm just imagining outlook reading and writing to this corupt data file and having it bog down, or trying to read across the network and having severe latency issues.

Best,

Erik

On August 26, 2019 1:37:10 PM "kelby carlson" <kelbycarlson@gmail.com> wrote:

It's a work computer so unfortunately I can't. But I may ask my work to do that.

On 8/26/19, Ralf Kefferpuetz <ralf.kefferpuetz@elra-consulting.de> wrote:
Did you try to uninstall and re-install the Office suite?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of kelby carlson
Sent: Montag, 26. August 2019 18:26
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook Bug When Scrolling Through Messages

I've continued to try everything I can think of to solve this issue. I can
somewhat get around it with object navigation, but it's still very
inconvenient. As I said, it is clearly something unique to this computer (ad
not even to Outlook 2016) but I can't for the life of me figure out what it
could be.

On 8/14/19, kelby carlson via Groups.Io
<kelbycarlson=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
No; I could not grant them remote access because it was a work
computer and they refused to give me steps to try verbally. Like I
said, I was very unimpressed with their service.

On 8/13/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
Ah that definitely seems to point to an issue with Outlook to affect
both NVDA and narrator. Are Microsoft going to follow it up?

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 11:44 PM kelby carlson
<kelbycarlson@gmail.com>
wrote:

No, I don't think Avast has ever been on the computer. Also, Outlook
does not display the "waiting for Outlook" dialogue, nor does it
freeze. It just doesn't read in the message list.

I spoke with the Microsoft Disability Answer Desk yesterday. While
overall they were extremely unhelpful, we did figure out that
precisely the same issue occurs when using Outlook with Narrator on
that particular computer.
This leads me to believe it is some setting in Outlook or on the
computer that is causing the issue, rather than something in NVDA.


On Aug 11, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org>
wrote:

It looks like this issue: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/9991

I think we've looked at most of the other issues, but have you ever had
Avast on the computer in question?

Quentin.

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 10:21 PM kelby carlson <kelbycarlson@gmail.com>
wrote:

Here is a log from when I tried this:

INFO - __main__ (08:16:59.197):
Starting NVDA
INFO - core.main (08:17:00.957):
Config dir: C:\Users\kcarlson\AppData\Roaming\nvda
INFO - config.ConfigManager._loadConfig (08:17:00.957):
Loading config: C:\Users\kcarlson\AppData\Roaming\nvda\nvda.ini
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
NVDA version 2019.1.1
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
Using Windows version 10.0.17134 workstation
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
Using Python version 2.7.15 (v2.7.15:ca079a3ea3, Apr 30 2018,
16:22:17) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
Using comtypes version 1.1.3
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
Using configobj version 5.1.0 with validate version 1.0.1
INFO - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (08:17:03.446):
Loaded synthDriver eloquence
INFO - core.main (08:17:03.923):
Using wx version 4.0.3 msw (phoenix) wxWidgets 3.0.5
INFO - brailleInput.initialize (08:17:03.928):
Braille input initialized
INFO - braille.initialize (08:17:03.938):
Using liblouis version 3.8.0
INFO - braille.BrailleHandler.setDisplayByName (08:17:03.940):
Loaded braille display driver noBraille, current display has 0 cells.
WARNING - core.main (08:17:04.042):
Java Access Bridge not available
INFO - _UIAHandler.UIAHandler.MTAThreadFunc (08:17:04.065):
UIAutomation: IUIAutomation5
INFO - core.main (08:17:05.334):
NVDA initialized
ERROR - RPC process 10644 (nvda_slave.exe) (08:17:16.051):
__main__.main:
slave error
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "nvda_slave.pyw", line 94, in main
File "comHelper.pyo", line 22, in _lresultFromGetActiveObject
File "comtypes\client\__init__.pyo", line 180, in GetActiveObject
File "comtypes\__init__.pyo", line 1247, in GetActiveObject
File "_ctypes/callproc.c", line 950, in GetResult
WindowsError: [Error -2147221021] Operation unavailable
INFO - globalCommands.GlobalCommands.script_navigatorObject_devInfo
(08:19:49.664):
Developer info for navigator object:
name: u'Flag Status Red Flag replied has attachment From
mdjblattenberger@gmail.com, Subject Message from "RNP0026736F9330",
Received Mon 5:25 PM, Size 3 MB, In Folder Archive,'
role: ROLE_LISTITEM
states: STATE_FOCUSABLE, STATE_SELECTABLE, STATE_READONLY
isFocusable: True
hasFocus: False
Python object: <appModules.outlook.UIAGridRow object at 0x05B31B70>
Python class mro: (<class 'appModules.outlook.UIAGridRow'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.behaviors.RowWithFakeNavigation'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.UIA.UIA'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.window.Window'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.NVDAObject'>, <class 'documentBase.TextContainerObject'>,
<class 'baseObject.ScriptableObject'>, <class
'baseObject.AutoPropertyObject'>, <type 'object'>)
description: ''
location: RectLTWH(left=360, top=508, width=414, height=70)
value: None
appModule: <'outlook' (appName u'outlook', process ID 12096) at
address
58fbdf0>
appModule.productName: u'Microsoft Outlook'
appModule.productVersion: u'16.0.4266.1001'
TextInfo: <class 'NVDAObjects.NVDAObjectTextInfo'>
windowHandle: 2560368
windowClassName: u'OutlookGrid'
windowControlID: 4704
windowStyle: 1442840576
windowThreadID: 8524
windowText: u'Table View'
displayText: u''
UIAElement: <POINTER(IUIAutomationElement) ptr=0x839e1a0 at 57da3a0>
UIA automationID:
UIA frameworkID:
UIA runtimeID: (42, 2560368, 4, -236)
UIA providerDescription: [pid:12096,providerId:0x0 Main(parent
link):Unidentified Provider (unmanaged:OUTLOOK.EXE)]
UIA className: LeafRow
UIA patterns available: LegacyIAccessiblePattern, GridItemPattern,
InvokePattern, ScrollItemPattern, SelectionItemPattern, ValuePattern


On 8/7/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
There is information on log files at:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps

One way, if it's an issue that you can replicate without then
needing
to
reboot or something afterwards - replicate the issue, then press
NVDA+F1 to
open the log. Press CONTROL+A to select all, then CONTROL+C to
copy,
create an email to me (or the list) with details of the issue and
how
to
replicate, then press CONTROL+V to paste.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 1:45 AM kelby carlson
<kelbycarlson@gmail.com>
wrote:

Yes, I believe so.

On 8/7/19, George Bell <george@techno-vision.co.uk> wrote:
Are both systems running the same version of Windows 10? The
current
version is 1903, but there have been updates to even that version
recently.

George

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
kelby
carlson
Sent: 07 August 2019 14:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook Bug When Scrolling Through Messages

I don't believe the ad-ons are any different on my laptop than my
desktop.

I also have a home laptop with the latest NVDA, WIndows 10, and
Outlook,
which does not have this problem. This leads me to believe it
must
have
to
do with the specific computer, though I can't imagine what the
problem
is.
They are both Lenovo brand.





--
Kelby Carlson



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2 RC 1 <
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-2rc1-released/>
now
available!

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>




--
Kelby Carlson



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2 RC 1
<https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-2rc1-released/>
now
available!

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2 RC 1
<https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-2rc1-released/>
now
available!

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>




--
Kelby Carlson




--
Kelby Carlson







--
Kelby Carlson


Re: Outlook Bug When Scrolling Through Messages

kelby carlson
 

It's a work computer so unfortunately I can't. But I may ask my work to do that.

On 8/26/19, Ralf Kefferpuetz <ralf.kefferpuetz@elra-consulting.de> wrote:
Did you try to uninstall and re-install the Office suite?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of kelby carlson
Sent: Montag, 26. August 2019 18:26
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook Bug When Scrolling Through Messages

I've continued to try everything I can think of to solve this issue. I can
somewhat get around it with object navigation, but it's still very
inconvenient. As I said, it is clearly something unique to this computer (ad
not even to Outlook 2016) but I can't for the life of me figure out what it
could be.

On 8/14/19, kelby carlson via Groups.Io
<kelbycarlson=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
No; I could not grant them remote access because it was a work
computer and they refused to give me steps to try verbally. Like I
said, I was very unimpressed with their service.

On 8/13/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
Ah that definitely seems to point to an issue with Outlook to affect
both NVDA and narrator. Are Microsoft going to follow it up?

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 11:44 PM kelby carlson
<kelbycarlson@gmail.com>
wrote:

No, I don't think Avast has ever been on the computer. Also, Outlook
does not display the "waiting for Outlook" dialogue, nor does it
freeze. It just doesn't read in the message list.

I spoke with the Microsoft Disability Answer Desk yesterday. While
overall they were extremely unhelpful, we did figure out that
precisely the same issue occurs when using Outlook with Narrator on
that particular computer.
This leads me to believe it is some setting in Outlook or on the
computer that is causing the issue, rather than something in NVDA.


On Aug 11, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org>
wrote:

It looks like this issue: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/9991

I think we've looked at most of the other issues, but have you ever had
Avast on the computer in question?

Quentin.

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 10:21 PM kelby carlson <kelbycarlson@gmail.com>
wrote:

Here is a log from when I tried this:

INFO - __main__ (08:16:59.197):
Starting NVDA
INFO - core.main (08:17:00.957):
Config dir: C:\Users\kcarlson\AppData\Roaming\nvda
INFO - config.ConfigManager._loadConfig (08:17:00.957):
Loading config: C:\Users\kcarlson\AppData\Roaming\nvda\nvda.ini
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
NVDA version 2019.1.1
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
Using Windows version 10.0.17134 workstation
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
Using Python version 2.7.15 (v2.7.15:ca079a3ea3, Apr 30 2018,
16:22:17) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
Using comtypes version 1.1.3
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
Using configobj version 5.1.0 with validate version 1.0.1
INFO - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (08:17:03.446):
Loaded synthDriver eloquence
INFO - core.main (08:17:03.923):
Using wx version 4.0.3 msw (phoenix) wxWidgets 3.0.5
INFO - brailleInput.initialize (08:17:03.928):
Braille input initialized
INFO - braille.initialize (08:17:03.938):
Using liblouis version 3.8.0
INFO - braille.BrailleHandler.setDisplayByName (08:17:03.940):
Loaded braille display driver noBraille, current display has 0 cells.
WARNING - core.main (08:17:04.042):
Java Access Bridge not available
INFO - _UIAHandler.UIAHandler.MTAThreadFunc (08:17:04.065):
UIAutomation: IUIAutomation5
INFO - core.main (08:17:05.334):
NVDA initialized
ERROR - RPC process 10644 (nvda_slave.exe) (08:17:16.051):
__main__.main:
slave error
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "nvda_slave.pyw", line 94, in main
File "comHelper.pyo", line 22, in _lresultFromGetActiveObject
File "comtypes\client\__init__.pyo", line 180, in GetActiveObject
File "comtypes\__init__.pyo", line 1247, in GetActiveObject
File "_ctypes/callproc.c", line 950, in GetResult
WindowsError: [Error -2147221021] Operation unavailable
INFO - globalCommands.GlobalCommands.script_navigatorObject_devInfo
(08:19:49.664):
Developer info for navigator object:
name: u'Flag Status Red Flag replied has attachment From
mdjblattenberger@gmail.com, Subject Message from "RNP0026736F9330",
Received Mon 5:25 PM, Size 3 MB, In Folder Archive,'
role: ROLE_LISTITEM
states: STATE_FOCUSABLE, STATE_SELECTABLE, STATE_READONLY
isFocusable: True
hasFocus: False
Python object: <appModules.outlook.UIAGridRow object at 0x05B31B70>
Python class mro: (<class 'appModules.outlook.UIAGridRow'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.behaviors.RowWithFakeNavigation'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.UIA.UIA'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.window.Window'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.NVDAObject'>, <class 'documentBase.TextContainerObject'>,
<class 'baseObject.ScriptableObject'>, <class
'baseObject.AutoPropertyObject'>, <type 'object'>)
description: ''
location: RectLTWH(left=360, top=508, width=414, height=70)
value: None
appModule: <'outlook' (appName u'outlook', process ID 12096) at
address
58fbdf0>
appModule.productName: u'Microsoft Outlook'
appModule.productVersion: u'16.0.4266.1001'
TextInfo: <class 'NVDAObjects.NVDAObjectTextInfo'>
windowHandle: 2560368
windowClassName: u'OutlookGrid'
windowControlID: 4704
windowStyle: 1442840576
windowThreadID: 8524
windowText: u'Table View'
displayText: u''
UIAElement: <POINTER(IUIAutomationElement) ptr=0x839e1a0 at 57da3a0>
UIA automationID:
UIA frameworkID:
UIA runtimeID: (42, 2560368, 4, -236)
UIA providerDescription: [pid:12096,providerId:0x0 Main(parent
link):Unidentified Provider (unmanaged:OUTLOOK.EXE)]
UIA className: LeafRow
UIA patterns available: LegacyIAccessiblePattern, GridItemPattern,
InvokePattern, ScrollItemPattern, SelectionItemPattern, ValuePattern


On 8/7/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
There is information on log files at:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps

One way, if it's an issue that you can replicate without then
needing
to
reboot or something afterwards - replicate the issue, then press
NVDA+F1 to
open the log. Press CONTROL+A to select all, then CONTROL+C to
copy,
create an email to me (or the list) with details of the issue and
how
to
replicate, then press CONTROL+V to paste.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 1:45 AM kelby carlson
<kelbycarlson@gmail.com>
wrote:

Yes, I believe so.

On 8/7/19, George Bell <george@techno-vision.co.uk> wrote:
Are both systems running the same version of Windows 10? The
current
version is 1903, but there have been updates to even that version
recently.

George

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
kelby
carlson
Sent: 07 August 2019 14:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook Bug When Scrolling Through Messages

I don't believe the ad-ons are any different on my laptop than my
desktop.

I also have a home laptop with the latest NVDA, WIndows 10, and
Outlook,
which does not have this problem. This leads me to believe it
must
have
to
do with the specific computer, though I can't imagine what the
problem
is.
They are both Lenovo brand.





--
Kelby Carlson



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2 RC 1 <
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-2rc1-released/>
now
available!

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>




--
Kelby Carlson



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2 RC 1
<https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-2rc1-released/>
now
available!

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2 RC 1
<https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-2rc1-released/>
now
available!

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>




--
Kelby Carlson




--
Kelby Carlson







--
Kelby Carlson


Re: Outlook Bug When Scrolling Through Messages

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

Did you try to uninstall and re-install the Office suite?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of kelby carlson
Sent: Montag, 26. August 2019 18:26
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook Bug When Scrolling Through Messages

I've continued to try everything I can think of to solve this issue. I can somewhat get around it with object navigation, but it's still very inconvenient. As I said, it is clearly something unique to this computer (ad not even to Outlook 2016) but I can't for the life of me figure out what it could be.

On 8/14/19, kelby carlson via Groups.Io
<kelbycarlson=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
No; I could not grant them remote access because it was a work
computer and they refused to give me steps to try verbally. Like I
said, I was very unimpressed with their service.

On 8/13/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
Ah that definitely seems to point to an issue with Outlook to affect
both NVDA and narrator. Are Microsoft going to follow it up?

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 11:44 PM kelby carlson
<kelbycarlson@gmail.com>
wrote:

No, I don't think Avast has ever been on the computer. Also, Outlook
does not display the "waiting for Outlook" dialogue, nor does it
freeze. It just doesn't read in the message list.

I spoke with the Microsoft Disability Answer Desk yesterday. While
overall they were extremely unhelpful, we did figure out that
precisely the same issue occurs when using Outlook with Narrator on
that particular computer.
This leads me to believe it is some setting in Outlook or on the
computer that is causing the issue, rather than something in NVDA.


On Aug 11, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org>
wrote:

It looks like this issue: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/9991

I think we've looked at most of the other issues, but have you ever had
Avast on the computer in question?

Quentin.

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 10:21 PM kelby carlson <kelbycarlson@gmail.com>
wrote:

Here is a log from when I tried this:

INFO - __main__ (08:16:59.197):
Starting NVDA
INFO - core.main (08:17:00.957):
Config dir: C:\Users\kcarlson\AppData\Roaming\nvda
INFO - config.ConfigManager._loadConfig (08:17:00.957):
Loading config: C:\Users\kcarlson\AppData\Roaming\nvda\nvda.ini
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
NVDA version 2019.1.1
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
Using Windows version 10.0.17134 workstation
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
Using Python version 2.7.15 (v2.7.15:ca079a3ea3, Apr 30 2018,
16:22:17) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
Using comtypes version 1.1.3
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
Using configobj version 5.1.0 with validate version 1.0.1
INFO - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (08:17:03.446):
Loaded synthDriver eloquence
INFO - core.main (08:17:03.923):
Using wx version 4.0.3 msw (phoenix) wxWidgets 3.0.5
INFO - brailleInput.initialize (08:17:03.928):
Braille input initialized
INFO - braille.initialize (08:17:03.938):
Using liblouis version 3.8.0
INFO - braille.BrailleHandler.setDisplayByName (08:17:03.940):
Loaded braille display driver noBraille, current display has 0 cells.
WARNING - core.main (08:17:04.042):
Java Access Bridge not available
INFO - _UIAHandler.UIAHandler.MTAThreadFunc (08:17:04.065):
UIAutomation: IUIAutomation5
INFO - core.main (08:17:05.334):
NVDA initialized
ERROR - RPC process 10644 (nvda_slave.exe) (08:17:16.051):
__main__.main:
slave error
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "nvda_slave.pyw", line 94, in main
File "comHelper.pyo", line 22, in _lresultFromGetActiveObject
File "comtypes\client\__init__.pyo", line 180, in GetActiveObject
File "comtypes\__init__.pyo", line 1247, in GetActiveObject
File "_ctypes/callproc.c", line 950, in GetResult
WindowsError: [Error -2147221021] Operation unavailable
INFO - globalCommands.GlobalCommands.script_navigatorObject_devInfo
(08:19:49.664):
Developer info for navigator object:
name: u'Flag Status Red Flag replied has attachment From
mdjblattenberger@gmail.com, Subject Message from "RNP0026736F9330",
Received Mon 5:25 PM, Size 3 MB, In Folder Archive,'
role: ROLE_LISTITEM
states: STATE_FOCUSABLE, STATE_SELECTABLE, STATE_READONLY
isFocusable: True
hasFocus: False
Python object: <appModules.outlook.UIAGridRow object at 0x05B31B70>
Python class mro: (<class 'appModules.outlook.UIAGridRow'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.behaviors.RowWithFakeNavigation'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.UIA.UIA'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.window.Window'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.NVDAObject'>, <class 'documentBase.TextContainerObject'>,
<class 'baseObject.ScriptableObject'>, <class
'baseObject.AutoPropertyObject'>, <type 'object'>)
description: ''
location: RectLTWH(left=360, top=508, width=414, height=70)
value: None
appModule: <'outlook' (appName u'outlook', process ID 12096) at address
58fbdf0>
appModule.productName: u'Microsoft Outlook'
appModule.productVersion: u'16.0.4266.1001'
TextInfo: <class 'NVDAObjects.NVDAObjectTextInfo'>
windowHandle: 2560368
windowClassName: u'OutlookGrid'
windowControlID: 4704
windowStyle: 1442840576
windowThreadID: 8524
windowText: u'Table View'
displayText: u''
UIAElement: <POINTER(IUIAutomationElement) ptr=0x839e1a0 at 57da3a0>
UIA automationID:
UIA frameworkID:
UIA runtimeID: (42, 2560368, 4, -236)
UIA providerDescription: [pid:12096,providerId:0x0 Main(parent
link):Unidentified Provider (unmanaged:OUTLOOK.EXE)]
UIA className: LeafRow
UIA patterns available: LegacyIAccessiblePattern, GridItemPattern,
InvokePattern, ScrollItemPattern, SelectionItemPattern, ValuePattern


On 8/7/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
There is information on log files at:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps

One way, if it's an issue that you can replicate without then needing
to
reboot or something afterwards - replicate the issue, then press
NVDA+F1 to
open the log. Press CONTROL+A to select all, then CONTROL+C to copy,
create an email to me (or the list) with details of the issue and how
to
replicate, then press CONTROL+V to paste.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 1:45 AM kelby carlson <kelbycarlson@gmail.com>
wrote:

Yes, I believe so.

On 8/7/19, George Bell <george@techno-vision.co.uk> wrote:
Are both systems running the same version of Windows 10? The
current
version is 1903, but there have been updates to even that version
recently.

George

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of kelby
carlson
Sent: 07 August 2019 14:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook Bug When Scrolling Through Messages

I don't believe the ad-ons are any different on my laptop than my
desktop.

I also have a home laptop with the latest NVDA, WIndows 10, and
Outlook,
which does not have this problem. This leads me to believe it must
have
to
do with the specific computer, though I can't imagine what the
problem
is.
They are both Lenovo brand.





--
Kelby Carlson



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2 RC 1 <
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-2rc1-released/>
now
available!

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>




--
Kelby Carlson



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2 RC 1
<https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-2rc1-released/>
now
available!

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2 RC 1 <https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-2rc1-released/>
now
available!

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>




--
Kelby Carlson




--
Kelby Carlson


Re: Outlook Bug When Scrolling Through Messages

kelby carlson
 

I've continued to try everything I can think of to solve this issue. I
can somewhat get around it with object navigation, but it's still very
inconvenient. As I said, it is clearly something unique to this
computer (ad not even to Outlook 2016) but I can't for the life of me
figure out what it could be.

On 8/14/19, kelby carlson via Groups.Io
<kelbycarlson=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
No; I could not grant them remote access because it was a work
computer and they refused to give me steps to try verbally. Like I
said, I was very unimpressed with their service.

On 8/13/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
Ah that definitely seems to point to an issue with Outlook to affect both
NVDA and narrator. Are Microsoft going to follow it up?

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 11:44 PM kelby carlson <kelbycarlson@gmail.com>
wrote:

No, I don't think Avast has ever been on the computer. Also, Outlook
does
not display the "waiting for Outlook" dialogue, nor does it freeze. It
just
doesn't read in the message list.

I spoke with the Microsoft Disability Answer Desk yesterday. While
overall
they were extremely unhelpful, we did figure out that precisely the same
issue occurs when using Outlook with Narrator on that particular
computer.
This leads me to believe it is some setting in Outlook or on the
computer
that is causing the issue, rather than something in NVDA.


On Aug 11, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org>
wrote:

It looks like this issue: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/9991

I think we've looked at most of the other issues, but have you ever had
Avast on the computer in question?

Quentin.

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 10:21 PM kelby carlson <kelbycarlson@gmail.com>
wrote:

Here is a log from when I tried this:

INFO - __main__ (08:16:59.197):
Starting NVDA
INFO - core.main (08:17:00.957):
Config dir: C:\Users\kcarlson\AppData\Roaming\nvda
INFO - config.ConfigManager._loadConfig (08:17:00.957):
Loading config: C:\Users\kcarlson\AppData\Roaming\nvda\nvda.ini
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
NVDA version 2019.1.1
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
Using Windows version 10.0.17134 workstation
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
Using Python version 2.7.15 (v2.7.15:ca079a3ea3, Apr 30 2018,
16:22:17) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
Using comtypes version 1.1.3
INFO - core.main (08:17:01.259):
Using configobj version 5.1.0 with validate version 1.0.1
INFO - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (08:17:03.446):
Loaded synthDriver eloquence
INFO - core.main (08:17:03.923):
Using wx version 4.0.3 msw (phoenix) wxWidgets 3.0.5
INFO - brailleInput.initialize (08:17:03.928):
Braille input initialized
INFO - braille.initialize (08:17:03.938):
Using liblouis version 3.8.0
INFO - braille.BrailleHandler.setDisplayByName (08:17:03.940):
Loaded braille display driver noBraille, current display has 0 cells.
WARNING - core.main (08:17:04.042):
Java Access Bridge not available
INFO - _UIAHandler.UIAHandler.MTAThreadFunc (08:17:04.065):
UIAutomation: IUIAutomation5
INFO - core.main (08:17:05.334):
NVDA initialized
ERROR - RPC process 10644 (nvda_slave.exe) (08:17:16.051):
__main__.main:
slave error
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "nvda_slave.pyw", line 94, in main
File "comHelper.pyo", line 22, in _lresultFromGetActiveObject
File "comtypes\client\__init__.pyo", line 180, in GetActiveObject
File "comtypes\__init__.pyo", line 1247, in GetActiveObject
File "_ctypes/callproc.c", line 950, in GetResult
WindowsError: [Error -2147221021] Operation unavailable
INFO - globalCommands.GlobalCommands.script_navigatorObject_devInfo
(08:19:49.664):
Developer info for navigator object:
name: u'Flag Status Red Flag replied has attachment From
mdjblattenberger@gmail.com, Subject Message from "RNP0026736F9330",
Received Mon 5:25 PM, Size 3 MB, In Folder Archive,'
role: ROLE_LISTITEM
states: STATE_FOCUSABLE, STATE_SELECTABLE, STATE_READONLY
isFocusable: True
hasFocus: False
Python object: <appModules.outlook.UIAGridRow object at 0x05B31B70>
Python class mro: (<class 'appModules.outlook.UIAGridRow'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.behaviors.RowWithFakeNavigation'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.UIA.UIA'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.window.Window'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.NVDAObject'>, <class 'documentBase.TextContainerObject'>,
<class 'baseObject.ScriptableObject'>, <class
'baseObject.AutoPropertyObject'>, <type 'object'>)
description: ''
location: RectLTWH(left=360, top=508, width=414, height=70)
value: None
appModule: <'outlook' (appName u'outlook', process ID 12096) at address
58fbdf0>
appModule.productName: u'Microsoft Outlook'
appModule.productVersion: u'16.0.4266.1001'
TextInfo: <class 'NVDAObjects.NVDAObjectTextInfo'>
windowHandle: 2560368
windowClassName: u'OutlookGrid'
windowControlID: 4704
windowStyle: 1442840576
windowThreadID: 8524
windowText: u'Table View'
displayText: u''
UIAElement: <POINTER(IUIAutomationElement) ptr=0x839e1a0 at 57da3a0>
UIA automationID:
UIA frameworkID:
UIA runtimeID: (42, 2560368, 4, -236)
UIA providerDescription: [pid:12096,providerId:0x0 Main(parent
link):Unidentified Provider (unmanaged:OUTLOOK.EXE)]
UIA className: LeafRow
UIA patterns available: LegacyIAccessiblePattern, GridItemPattern,
InvokePattern, ScrollItemPattern, SelectionItemPattern, ValuePattern


On 8/7/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
There is information on log files at:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps

One way, if it's an issue that you can replicate without then needing
to
reboot or something afterwards - replicate the issue, then press
NVDA+F1 to
open the log. Press CONTROL+A to select all, then CONTROL+C to copy,
create an email to me (or the list) with details of the issue and how
to
replicate, then press CONTROL+V to paste.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 1:45 AM kelby carlson <kelbycarlson@gmail.com>
wrote:

Yes, I believe so.

On 8/7/19, George Bell <george@techno-vision.co.uk> wrote:
Are both systems running the same version of Windows 10? The
current
version is 1903, but there have been updates to even that version
recently.

George

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of kelby
carlson
Sent: 07 August 2019 14:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook Bug When Scrolling Through Messages

I don't believe the ad-ons are any different on my laptop than my
desktop.

I also have a home laptop with the latest NVDA, WIndows 10, and
Outlook,
which does not have this problem. This leads me to believe it must
have
to
do with the specific computer, though I can't imagine what the
problem
is.
They are both Lenovo brand.





--
Kelby Carlson



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2 RC 1 <
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-2rc1-released/>
now
available!

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>




--
Kelby Carlson



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2 RC 1
<https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-2rc1-released/>
now
available!

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2 RC 1 <https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-2rc1-released/>
now
available!

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>




--
Kelby Carlson




--
Kelby Carlson


Re: NVDA in Employment

kelby carlson
 

Eric,

I really appreciate all of this information. Now if only I could get
Outlook to work on my work laptop... unlike every other system I've
been on where it works fine.

I have also had no issues with Thunderbird, except for the fact that
it has to download a lot of emails, and I don't think the lag has
anything to do with NVDA.

When the person who lead to this thread brought up things like skim
reading, I went and looked at the JAWS documentation; I can't help but
wonder if things like the standard "find" feature might be just as
efficient. (Think of creating a text rule, opening the skim reading
dialogue, getting to the text rule, and reading the list). Sometimes
features like that are not as impressive once you think about them.

On 8/26/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 11:32 AM, Gene wrote:


If it weren't for NVDA, there probably wouldn't be a subscription option.
About which I absolutely agree.   Between NVDA and Narrator, the folks at
Vispero who presumed that things would always go along as they had been for
years are quaking in their boots, and no one is more deserving of being
nervous, very nervous.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362

*The color of truth is grey.*

~ André Gide



--
Kelby Carlson


Re: Row/Column Header Reporting Won't Turn Off

 

hi.
disable all three items related to tables in document formatting.
i turned off all items and never hear such informations!

On 8/26/19, kelby carlson <kelbycarlson@gmail.com> wrote:
When I go into the Document format settings dialogue box and attempt
to turn row/column headers reading off, it will still reading
row/column numbers in tables. How can I actually get this off?

--
Kelby Carlson



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Row/Column Header Reporting Won't Turn Off

kelby carlson
 

When I go into the Document format settings dialogue box and attempt
to turn row/column headers reading off, it will still reading
row/column numbers in tables. How can I actually get this off?

--
Kelby Carlson


Re: NVDA in Employment

 

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 11:32 AM, Gene wrote:
If it weren't for NVDA, there probably wouldn't be a subscription option.
About which I absolutely agree.   Between NVDA and Narrator, the folks at Vispero who presumed that things would always go along as they had been for years are quaking in their boots, and no one is more deserving of being nervous, very nervous.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: NVDA in Employment

Gene
 

If it weren't for NVDA, there probably wouldn't be a subscription option.  So whatever the case is regarding which screen-reader is better for the most workplace applications, a lot of people are indirectly benefitting from inroads NVDA has made in the market and that is a very good contribution NVDA is making.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in Employment

My personal experience, at least in Virginia, is not that JAWS is pushed due to anything contractual, but because it's the only thing that most know about or want to know about on the tech support side in the agencies.   That also bleeds over into the field offices that are direct client service, too.

The head of our tutor network knows this, and acknowledges it, but has pretty much "given in" to the situation as well.  She says that there have been previous efforts to try to get NVDA into the mix (which, to be frank, I feel pretty certain were half-hearted) but none of them were able to gain traction.

I dislike the anticompetitive nature of Vispero (and all its predecessors) as well as the insane price gouging (my opinion, even though I know screen readers are a niche market) that they have done.   A lot of my clients through the Virginia Department for the Blind and Visually Impaired have very limited funds, and although the department funds the initial purchase and service maintenance agreement, that's generally where it ends.   So, up until the subscription option appeared, this left a lot of folks with completely outmoded versions of JAWS very quickly if they couldn't afford follow-on service maintenance agreements.

I truly hope that NVDA keeps gaining traction and that Narrator does, too.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: NVDA in Employment

 

My personal experience, at least in Virginia, is not that JAWS is pushed due to anything contractual, but because it's the only thing that most know about or want to know about on the tech support side in the agencies.   That also bleeds over into the field offices that are direct client service, too.

The head of our tutor network knows this, and acknowledges it, but has pretty much "given in" to the situation as well.  She says that there have been previous efforts to try to get NVDA into the mix (which, to be frank, I feel pretty certain were half-hearted) but none of them were able to gain traction.

I dislike the anticompetitive nature of Vispero (and all its predecessors) as well as the insane price gouging (my opinion, even though I know screen readers are a niche market) that they have done.   A lot of my clients through the Virginia Department for the Blind and Visually Impaired have very limited funds, and although the department funds the initial purchase and service maintenance agreement, that's generally where it ends.   So, up until the subscription option appeared, this left a lot of folks with completely outmoded versions of JAWS very quickly if they couldn't afford follow-on service maintenance agreements.

I truly hope that NVDA keeps gaining traction and that Narrator does, too.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: NVDA in Employment

erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

Greetings,

On August 25, 2019 6:11:06 PM "Andy B." <sonfire11@gmail.com> wrote:

1. NVDA has been the most standards compliant for years, at least that you
know of... Do you have documentation that NVDA is the most standards
compliant Windows-based screen reader?

This is rich. Quentin sent a pretty good overview of information employers might need to put NVDA in their workplaces. Now the way I read that document, the NVDA software interface complies with WCAG 2.0A, and is equiped to provide access to any software complying to WCAG 2.0AA. Quentin can correct me if I'm wrong. There is also further information about compliance with standards that don't apply to me such as rehabilitation 508 refresh.

This morning I did a quick google search and couldn't find a compliance statement for jaws. So I called freedom scientific and asked what edition of WCAG Jaws complies with. The tech support person had never heard of WCAG even after I spelled it out in terms of web content accessibility guidelines. He then told me that the latest jaws version was 2019 and for the best compatibility, use that. I asked twice more and he checked twice more, but he ended up telling me that no one in his department knew anything about wcag.

I wouldn't call NVDA standards
compliant when the only effective email client NVDA works with is the
web-based version of Gmail. When TB sometimes lags for hours, Windows 10
Mail doesn't read well and you have to make use of notepad to type email,
and NVDA+Outlook results in the error bell going off like the closing bell
on Wallstreet, it doesn't sound very compliant.

I think you're missing the point of standards. I use windows 10 mail just fine, and I've also run outlook with no problems. I'm sorry it isn't working out for you, but the point of standards is that everyone has to comply in order for the system to work. If NVDA and windows 10 mail are both compliant to WCAG 2.0AA, they work together at least in as much as the items covered by the standard. If one of them fails to comply, the system falls over.

Now there are qwerks in windows 10 mail. Editing a message is really unreasonably clunky, but the one time I tried it with jaws it was frightening. In stead of reading from and subject in the message list, it was reading the body of the message without the headers. On top of that, this particular system you could use for a few hours at a time, but at some random point, jaws would fail to load web content properly across all applications. Emails... webpages... blooie! The content would load and jaws would just say blank blank blank. Nothing's perfect, but a high end screen reader really shouldn't do things like that.
2. Software developers are increasingly required to create standards
compliant software. Do you have evidence from the U.S. Supreme court or
other international governing body that standards compliant software is an
absolute must? If so, what are those standards and penalties for violating
the standards?

I don't know the ins and outs of the American system, though I have heard of settlements and penalties ranging from $100000 to $2.5 millian for people barred from work or education due to inaccessible software. Of course, in all these cases as with the ones I've worked on, the penalties are as much for unwillingness to comply as for the noncompliance itself. I do not remember, exactly, but either the section 508 refresh or the latest ADA refresh officially adopted WCAG 2.0.

Here in ontario, the legally adopted standard is WCAG 2.0AA with 2.0AAA to be implemented fully by year 2021. I believe the penalties for noncompliance are not less than $10,000 and not more than $50,000. I think the new national legislation has stiffer penalties, but the adoption process just started. I would think they will go with WCAG 2.1 just to stay current, but this remains to be seen. I'm sorry I don't have all the numbers difinitively, but all this is public record. You can look up the definitions and requirements for your region.
3. It is foolish to claim open source is not safe in the workplace. You seem
to be taking this point from an NVDA users perspective. Well I just happen to be an nvda user with substantial IT experience. Besides, none of your comments on this point in any way address the issue of open source and security and others have addressed it better than I could.
Besides, most AT
software and hardware gains popularity through a good marketing plan. NVDA
doesn't seem to have a good marketing plan, else they would have become
direct competitor's with JAWS.

Gafaws and harty chuckles all around. How many screen reader products have competed directly with freedom scientific. Let's see, in the early days there were ASAW, window-bridge and winvision. Then came window-eyes, Hal and supernova. Then free screen readers emerged such as nvda and thunder. Explain if you will... Where are all of the screen readers and magnifiers who competed directly with jaws? Except for supernova which still has a limitted following and NVDA which doesn't compete directly, every single last one of those products and more that I haven't mentioned are G O N E... Gone. I forgot about system access actually. That might still be around. I don't remember. In any event, the legal fees alone that would be required to defend against frivolous freedom scientific lawsuits would enflate the cost beyond common sense. Then there are the multitudinous exclusivity agreements held by FS, which NVDA conveniently circumvents with it's current charity free access model.

There is this thing called market disruption. To find out how positive disruption works, study uber, airbnb, and netflix who revolutionized their industries and the way we think about products and services. Did NVDA set out to disrupt a market? We can only speculate; however, it certainly had timing on it's side coming up as it did alongside the emergence of apple voiceover products and google talkback.

Does NVAccess have a bad marketing plan? You tell me. Grants from microsoft, adobe, and mozilla, prestigious technology awards, Academic recognission and use in research, recognized leader in software testing,, used in derivitive commercial access technologies such as ABISee Eyepal... Goodness gracious me! I see it all so clearly now. What a terrible marketing plan! How could we all have been so blind! :-D


In any case, most IT managers have no clue
about AT and how it works. Thus, they will go with the product most
advertised and sought after in the accessibility space.

Oh boy... No no no... If they don't know anything about accessibility, they will transfer the issue in whole or in part to either a legal department, or an accessibility department, which companies in Ontario are now and soon will be, required to have. The accessibility and/or legal department may seek out an official recommendation from an agency such as the CNIB here. An agency probably but not necessarily will recommend jaws for many of the shortsighted reasons sited in this thread. Whatever comes of it, the law here and in the US requires that a person with a disability be allowed input into their own accommodations. That doesn't mean they get whatever they ask for, but they do get an opportunity to state and justify their preferences. IT departments often have little or no say in what is procured,. They are only consulted on implementation. If there are problems with an implementation such as jaws simply failing to run or concerns about NVDA security, they get to provide that feedback, but if the concerns can be addressed, they have to implement whatever the accessibility department procures.

5. The point of AT software and hardware is to gain access to, and use the
accessibility framework implemented in the operating system. Its other job
is to compensate for a lack in such accessibility framework. Hence, why JAWS
works better in VS code and Visual Studio better than NVDA, especially with
autocomplete.

We disagree here. Screen readers in my view should not be required to compensate for deficiencies in software development. This I believe, is also the working development philosophy at NVAccess. It is personally excruciating to me that microsoft makes a public show of spending 10's of millians of dollars on AI research to help people with disabilities, while workers today are still waiting for full access to sharepoint, visual studio, and other corporate software to do their job. That to me is trucking ridiculous!

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 2:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in Emploandenp

Hi Kelby
On August 25, 2019 7:39:31 AM "kelby carlson" <kelbycarlson@gmail.com>
wrote:


I hope this isn't too off-topic. I recently heard an argument that NVDA is
bad for blind prospect's in employment because it is the "dumbed down"
solution.

That sounds like the blather of some one who recommended commercial screen
readers for 20 years and is now having their apple cart upset. I've seen
this time and time again and will keep seeing it as long as accessibility is
a thing. When some one has to use dirision rather than fact to steer you
away from one product and ttowards another, an alarm bell should shreek in
your head.

The person arguing this elaborated, saying that NVDA is not
customizable/flexible enough (too chatty"),

This is a matter of personal preference, but I can make NVDA do the common
things such as punctuation level that I sometimes need to configure.

that it was not able to be scripted as easily,

Now, I have heard argued the other point that NVDA is easier to scrypt than
jaws and I subscribe to this view. Consider, there are many more python
programmers in the world than jaws scripters. A company can script NVDA in
house using their own IT department. Otherwise, the company needs to
outsource jaws scripting to an access technology professional. The prices I
have seen quoted range from $500 per hour to $150 per line.
it didn't work well with as much proprietary software,

An argument that shows no understanding of access technology trends. It is
no longer the purview of a screen reader to work with particular software.
In the current and emerging model, an operating system creates accessibility
API's that comply with recognized standards. Screen readers provide access
using the API's and standards. Software manufacturers are increasingly
legally and socially obligated to comply with accessibility standards and
implement API's and ffeatures for accessibility provided by the system.
Employers are increasingly legally and socially obligated to procure
technology hardware and software that complies with accessibility standards
so that it can work with access technologies. NVDA has been considered the
most standards compliant screen rreader for several years as far as I know,.

and that it wouldn't be allowed on secure environments due to being open
source.

Extrordinarily foolish. If open source software is insecure, why is it
powering the commercial internet? If commercial software is inherantly
secure, why do we need to spend billians of dollars protecting windows
against viruses? NVD'S licencing makes it time and cost efficient to
install across large networks such as call centre floors holding thousands
of computer workstations. If your corporate network is secure, than running
NVDA can't possibly be less secure than running say adobe reader, which is
a known constantly volnerable commercial product.

So my question is this: how many people here use NVDA for work,

I do. I'm a compuuter programming student working as a web application
developer for wholenote media in Toronto. I've experienced some of the
things members are saying about programming tools such as long delays using
intelisense. Not 30 seconds but finger-chompingly long lag. This is the
fault of software developers such as Microsoft for not complying with
standards or even properly implementing their own API's. At least, if you
want me to consider that there might be something in NVDA causing severe lag
in microsoft intelisense, how about giving us full access to xaml designer,
rad tools, and unit testing among other things. If ms could say their
product was up to snuff, then I'd consider that there's an ineficiency in
NVDA. Otherwise, autocomplete works well for me in browsers and in VSCode
though I haven't tried in notepadplusplus with the add on.
We can talk about it when visual studio becomes truly viable for
accessibility.

and is there a notable dilerence in level of usability with JAWS?

I couldn't speak to this. I haven't used jaws since the days of 4.5. I
have provided some computer training on jaws systems though and have
experienced significant frustration using google chrome, excel 2016, windows
10 mail, and other things. In helping jaws users the last year or so, I've
seen an issue where displaying web content poops out. Jaws scripts still
have a bent for corrupting themselves and needing to be re-installed. And
they still haven't figured out how to deal with issues such as laptops
switching video cards for various power profiles and ditching the
authorization.

I was at the college last week getting set up for my fall semester classes.
When I sat down with my access technologist, a nondisabled college
employee, he imediately expressed frustration to me over use of jaws in the
college. He told me that in general nvda was working much better on college
systems than jaws, nvda is superior at the maths I have to do this semester
compared to jaws, and he thought for it's effectiveness, jaws was way over
priced. This is a complete turnaround from 2.5 years ago when I was
registering for courses. At that time, jaws was everything according to
this guy. He was extremely skeptical of NVDA and only implemented it for me
because I insisted. He was also dead set against mac and has had to rethink
that position too. :-)

I've told the story many times about going into the interview at the call
centre back in 16. It looked like they were gung hoe to hire me. Their IT
guy that I was working with said, "thank god you really wanted NVDA. Jaws
won't even load up on our systems for testing." He also told me they would
script NVDA in house using their python programmers. I didn't get hired,
but I don't think it had anything to do with equipment and resources.

Hope this helps,


Re: NVDA in Employment

Sky Mundell
 

It’s interesting you should say this because where I work we don’t have any contracts with Vispero. So we can teach NVDA which is a good thing alongside of other solutions and I’d rather not us get contracted by Vispero because I detest their anticompetitive nature. Yes JAWS might have been a good program and probably still is in some areas but it’s their anticompetitive nature that  is part of the problem as well and I never thought when I started on computers in 1993 that we would have a company that monopolised the assistive technology market and I always thought the agencies would encourage client choice and provide a range of solutions as the only way that screen readers back in the day like JAWS, and when it was alive, Window-Eyes, could really be funded is via agencies.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 7:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in Employment

 

I did bring this up with my BSB here but they don't want to listen. It's jaws or nothing at all, but I think his is because they are paid by our govermment to teach jaws not NVDA so they will probably lose money from the government. Same with employers. If they ave a contract with visparo then they probably cannot teach NVDA or let you use it.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 25 Aug 2019, at 22:48, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Indeed Austin!  I think the misconception is that any malicious hacker can edit the code of any open source project - which completely misses how open source projects work.  Yes, anyone can submit a pull request (submit code) for NVDA, but before it goes into the final product, it needs to be reviewed by the core developers, and if you download NVDA from the official source, it's just as robust and secure as downloading any other (closed or open source) program from its official download page.

 

Also, I must apologise to Kelby - I inadvertently typed "Kelly" in my previous email, so my apologies Kelby!

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 3:34 PM Austin Pinto <austinpinto.xaviers@...> wrote:

if open source software are not secure how is Linux powering most web servers?
some1 can make changes to the Linux kernel and do what they want.

On 8/26/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
> Hi Kelly,
>
> I see the skim reading question has been addressed, and I'll leave others
> to answer which screen reader they prefer, but in terms of using NVDA in a
> work environment, we certainly do have a lot of users who use NVDA in that
> context, both employees and also employers or institutions setting up NVDA
> in say, university labs, libraries or other public computers.
>
> For anyone looking into this either as an employer or an employee looking
> for information for their workplace, we have a page at
> https://www.nvaccess.org/corporate-government/ which answers a lot of
> common questions (including the security options within NVDA, and
> addressing the (unfounded) concern around the security of open-source
> software.
>
> If anyone (or any potential employers) have any lingering concerns, please
> do get in touch (or get them in touch) with us - info@... is the
> easiest way - and we'd be happy to discuss any concerns.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Quentin.
>
> On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 9:38 PM kelby carlson <kelbycarlson@...>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, everyone,
>>
>> I hope this isn't too off-topic. I recently heard an argument that NVDA
>> is
>> bad for blind prospect's in employment because it is the "dumbed down"
>> solution. The person arguing this elaborated, saying that NVDA is not
>> customizable/flexible enough (too chatty"), that it was not able to be
>> scripted as easily, it didn't work well with as much proprietary
>> software,
>> and that it wouldn't be allowed on secure environments due to being open
>> source.
>>
>> So my question is this: how many people here use NVDA for work, and is
>> there a notable dilerence in level of usability with JAWS?
>>
>> Also, does NVDA have a skim reading feature like JAWS?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> Web: www.nvaccess.org
> Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
> Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
> User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
>
>
>
>


--
search for me on facebook, google+, orkut..
austinpinto.xaviers@...
follow me on twitter.
austinmpinto
contact me on skype.
austin.pinto3



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Re: Very basic question.

 

As an aside, if you're looking for keyboard shortcuts for NVDA, these can easily be brought up in your default web browser, triggered in NVDA itself.

You can use NVDA Key+N,H,Q and the reference document for all the NVDA Shortcuts opens in your browser and can be searched.  I do this all the time for the "less frequently shortcuts" when I need these, as I never remember the ones I don't use all the time.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: NVDA in Employment

Sarah k Alawami
 

I did bring this up with my BSB here but they don't want to listen. It's jaws or nothing at all, but I think his is because they are paid by our govermment to teach jaws not NVDA so they will probably lose money from the government. Same with employers. If they ave a contract with visparo then they probably cannot teach NVDA or let you use it.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 25 Aug 2019, at 22:48, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Indeed Austin!  I think the misconception is that any malicious hacker can edit the code of any open source project - which completely misses how open source projects work.  Yes, anyone can submit a pull request (submit code) for NVDA, but before it goes into the final product, it needs to be reviewed by the core developers, and if you download NVDA from the official source, it's just as robust and secure as downloading any other (closed or open source) program from its official download page.

Also, I must apologise to Kelby - I inadvertently typed "Kelly" in my previous email, so my apologies Kelby!

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 3:34 PM Austin Pinto <austinpinto.xaviers@...> wrote:
if open source software are not secure how is Linux powering most web servers?
some1 can make changes to the Linux kernel and do what they want.

On 8/26/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
> Hi Kelly,
>
> I see the skim reading question has been addressed, and I'll leave others
> to answer which screen reader they prefer, but in terms of using NVDA in a
> work environment, we certainly do have a lot of users who use NVDA in that
> context, both employees and also employers or institutions setting up NVDA
> in say, university labs, libraries or other public computers.
>
> For anyone looking into this either as an employer or an employee looking
> for information for their workplace, we have a page at
> https://www.nvaccess.org/corporate-government/ which answers a lot of
> common questions (including the security options within NVDA, and
> addressing the (unfounded) concern around the security of open-source
> software.
>
> If anyone (or any potential employers) have any lingering concerns, please
> do get in touch (or get them in touch) with us - info@... is the
> easiest way - and we'd be happy to discuss any concerns.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Quentin.
>
> On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 9:38 PM kelby carlson <kelbycarlson@...>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, everyone,
>>
>> I hope this isn't too off-topic. I recently heard an argument that NVDA
>> is
>> bad for blind prospect's in employment because it is the "dumbed down"
>> solution. The person arguing this elaborated, saying that NVDA is not
>> customizable/flexible enough (too chatty"), that it was not able to be
>> scripted as easily, it didn't work well with as much proprietary
>> software,
>> and that it wouldn't be allowed on secure environments due to being open
>> source.
>>
>> So my question is this: how many people here use NVDA for work, and is
>> there a notable dilerence in level of usability with JAWS?
>>
>> Also, does NVDA have a skim reading feature like JAWS?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> Web: www.nvaccess.org
> Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
> Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
> User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
>
>
>
>


--
search for me on facebook, google+, orkut..
austinpinto.xaviers@...
follow me on twitter.
austinmpinto
contact me on skype.
austin.pinto3





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: A point on email clients

Cecelia Rodriguez <cessbraille@...>
 

The mail app in windows 10

On Aug 25, 2019, at 11:58 AM, Vincent Le Goff <vincent.legoff.srs@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community. The client is getting extremely sluggish. It behaves well for sighted users but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on Braille. Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails (yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems. The first, and obvious, is: what to use now? Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many choices. For awhile I heard about an open-source email client specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what are you using? What would be more fitting with NVDA? I have a few requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent



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