Date   

Re: Clipspeak addon compatibility status

Kevin Cussick
 

Hi, no no, let me thank you for your efforts. I love this addon and hope it will be maintained at some point to be made to work with the next up and coming Nvda.

On 06/10/2019 22:57, Damien Garwood wrote:
Hi Joseph,
I'll leave this one up to you. It does have a few bugs that I wouldn't know how to resolve, not knowing enough about the NVDA codebase and Windows API programming (perhaps one of the biggest being that sometimes seemingly at random, operations fail to work, with a close second being that it can easily interfere with applications which have a different purpose for the keys that Clipspeak uses). Based on this, if you still feel that the community has use for it, then anyone who likes may take up the reins.
Meantime, for me, I think I need to do a heck of a lot more reading and experimenting and private failing (yes Damien, note to self, private being the key word there), before I start trying to publish another addon, let alone update my existing ones. I feel like I've already let the community down as it is with my lousy attempts. I'm determined not to metaphorically flood the kitchen next time I wash up.
Cheers,
Damien.
On 06/10/2019 10:13 pm, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Mostly having to do with add-on manifest issue. I'm willing to make it "compatible" but if and only if Damien gives the community permission to do so.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 2:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Clipspeak addon compatibility status

this addon does not work with the latest alpha snaps.   i suppose this
is because it is not compatible with python3 yet?   Joseph or someone
else can answer.

On 06/10/2019 16:04, Brian Vogel wrote:
Well, Clipspeak
<https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/clipspeak.en.html> is still
downloadable from the NVDA Stable Add-Ons Page
<https://addons.nvda-project.org/index.en.html>, and so long as it
remains there I presume it works.  Things generally get removed if
they become incompatible with the current version of NVDA.

Damien Garwood is the author, and is a member of this group.  In the
case of Add-Ons, consulting with their respective authors is the best
way to find out whether they're being actively maintained and whether
they are slated to work with the Python 3 code base.
--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362

*The color of truth is grey.*

             ~ André Gide






Re: Clipspeak addon compatibility status

Kevin Cussick
 

Hi, agreed, but I also agree that after say 3 months of an author who does not answer queries about His or Her addon should expect someone to take it over without any consent.

On 06/10/2019 22:56, molly the blind tech lover wrote:
I love clipspeak. It is extremely useful.
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* Sunday, October 6, 2019 5:43 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Clipspeak addon compatibility status
I'm not saying that this problem will occur regarding this add-on, I don't think it will, but the possible situation should be discussed.
I saw Joseph's message about needing to obtain permission before making the add-on compatible.  This raises the question of providing, in some sort of agreement regarding add-ons, that under specified conditions an add-on will be considered to be in the public domain.  An add-on that is abandoned but not in the public domain is in danger of not being updated and becoming useless or significantly degraded as NVDA or the program it works with changes.
Of course, the rights of those who provide add-ons for profit should be protected but it is, in my opinion, a serious violation of the spirit of NVDA that an add-on can be abandoned by its developer, and still not be able to be modified to keep it current.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:*molly the blind tech lover <mailto:brainardmolly@gmail.com>
*Sent:*Sunday, October 06, 2019 4:35 PM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] Clipspeak addon compatibility status
I just looked at the website listing the compatibility of add-ons with python 3.  It says clipspeak isn't compatible. Here's the link
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/nvdapy3.en.html
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 5:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Clipspeak addon compatibility status
this addon does not work with the latest alpha snaps.   i suppose this
is because it is not compatible with python3 yet?   Joseph or someone
else can answer.
On 06/10/2019 16:04, Brian Vogel wrote:
> Well, Clipspeak
> <https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/clipspeak.en.html> is still
> downloadable from the NVDA Stable Add-Ons Page
> <https://addons.nvda-project.org/index.en.html>, and so long as it
> remains there I presume it works.  Things generally get removed if
> they become incompatible with the current version of NVDA.
>
> Damien Garwood is the author, and is a member of this group.  In the
> case of Add-Ons, consulting with their respective authors is the best
> way to find out whether they're being actively maintained and whether
> they are slated to work with the Python 3 code base.
> --
>
> Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362
>
> *The color of truth is grey.*
>
>             ~ André Gide
>
>


Re: Directing NVDA output to a particular audio device

Luke Davis
 

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019, Gene wrote:

If you want the NVDA audio to go through the USB soundcard, you would set NVDA to use that sound card.  This is done within NVDA itself.
But I don't know how you direct the other audio to use the original internal sound card.  Others would have to answer that.  I've never tried such a
setting.
Would you not just set the internal card as the Windows default?

I have certainly done the opposite before: set a USB card as Windows default, and set NVDA to use the internal card, so I don't see why the inverse wouldn't work.

Luke


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

Vincent Le Goff <vincent.legoff.srs@...>
 

Hello again,


To narrow it down to a very specific feature mentioned here: keyboard shortcuts in web apps.  As was mentioned in a previous post, the list of available shortcuts in Gmail isn't short.  Lots can be done through the keyboard.  Going through the list of messages using the up/down arrow keys is definitely something most people will expect.  Opening the message when pressing Enter is another.  But here's the catch: pressing X to select a message?  Why on earth... the thing is, pressing space would have felt more natural to most of us, but intercepting the space key is not that portable on web applications.  Pressing left arrow to open the navigation bar is great, but shouldn't alt have been used?  And yet, of course, in a web application, alt is to access the browser menu bar, not the application's.


In the previous post, lots of web applications were mentioned.  The thing is, not all of them have as good support as Gmail.  And all of them offer different keyboard shortcuts.  That's the problem, I think, or at least, one of the problems: if we have to bow to web applications and say "well, no point in avoiding them, let's get on a first-name basis instead", it also means that we'll need to learn individual application shortcut.  Am I suggesting it's not the case in a desktop application?  Yes and no.  In a Desktop application, often what you can do is connected to the type of element you are on.  You know if you are focused on a list, you might use the arrow keys to browse it.  You might use letters to jump to individual list items.  In a web application, things are a bit more complex, as the connection between "element type" and "shortcut keys" is pretty loose.  ARIA encourages a very good structure and helps to create Javascript aligned with users' expectation.  But still, it's the developer's responsibility to create keyboard shortcuts that "make sense" to users.  And all developers seem to have different ideas about what makes sense.


So what would be the solution?  Having some kind of "shortcut key standard" might sound a bit extreme and definite.  But I believe something has to be done in regard to "freely used keyboard shortcut" to try and come up with something more universal.


I'll state it again though: for me, it's only one of the problems with web applications, but I admit it's (still in my opinion) a rather important one.  How to teach to be proficient with a screen reader is going to become "how to be proficient with Youtube" or "how to be proficient with Gmail".  Not saying that's not important, just that a bit of uniformity would be welcome here.  The tools exist too.  Regardless, I would find it too bad if new users were taught to use such and such web application, not how to use a computer, or a screen reader.


Vincent

On 10/7/2019 6:43 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,

My thoughts on web apps is that many sites use web apps these days, and it makes accessing the sites with the web apps easier in many cases.

In Gmail, users can use up/down arrow keys to traverse the list of emails. Pressing left arrow places focus in the navigation bar. Pressing enter opens an email. Pressing n/p moves between emails in the thread. Pressing x selects the email in order to do batch operations on emails. Pressing r replies, pressing a does a reply all.

These methods of navigating are so much faster than doing a find, using basic HTML, or whatever else users do to navigate Gmail. If you are unfamiliar with web apps, you would still be using basic HTML with all of its limitations.

Twitter also has a list of these keyboard shortcuts. As does Facebook. As did Google Plus. As does Google Play Music. As does Youtube to some extent.

Whether users choose to use web apps or not is dependent on them and how likely they are to adapt to a new way of navigating. I think web apps can improve efficiency, but knowing to navigate without web apps is important as well.

In the NVDA user guide, under section 6.1, there is an option of pressing NVDA+shift+space which disables browse mode commands for a particular webpage and allows the use of browse mode and web app commands. I typically don't use this, and often just turn off browse mode, but this really is up to the user to choose how to best use NVDA.

Thanks.

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 9:23 AM molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

When I received training it was with Jaws, and one of the first things I was taught  was how to use the elements list. I taught myself how to use NVDA when I got home, because there was no one else. I like to think I am pretty competent with NVDA, though I am certainly no expert.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 12:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

 

I don't think blind people should be taught the elements list until they have thoroughly mastered the find command and other ways to navigate.  Yet a lot of instructional material teaches the elements list very early.  It is not anything like any structure on the web page and it separates the user from the web page and makes teaching looking at context more difficult. 

 

Once the student has mastered other ways of working with web pages, there is plenty of time to teach this completely artificial structure.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

Sent: Monday, October 07, 2019 10:58 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

 

I enjoy using the find function as well. Particularly on lengthy pages
with lots of links and/or information. Navigating with the elements list
would just take too long. This is useful on my RSS reader web page for
instance. I subscribe to a whole bunch of feeds, over 300.



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
you, and have a great day!


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

Sarah k Alawami
 

Yep. agreed. Just like a computer, I did not sit down, pick up my cello and start playing the bach suite the first day. I played, squeak squeak squeak, squak. so yeah Brian is right. I got 8 hours on the simple stuff, and my teacher was awesome by the way, but then I just listened to, and memorized, the training tapes and went on my way. I don't know everything about everything but I'm willing to learn.

Take care and be blessed and happy nvda using and web surfing.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 7 Oct 2019, at 10:19, Brian Vogel wrote:

We've "gotten very meta" on this topic, but this is a perfect example of where the meta information is hugely important and helpful.

One thing I feel needs to be added with regard to training, as I'm someone who does it, is that it is generally tightly constrained both by time and money (the former of which almost always being a function of availability of the latter).   It is impossible to teach everything about a screen reader, or even close to it, and I know of no one, including individuals who are far, far, far more skilled than myself with a given screen reader knowing anything close to everything about it.   We do what we can with what we know, will admit what we don't know, and will try to research questions that we don't know the answer to in real time during training when that's feasible and before the next session when not.

Both instructors and users will find themselves in positions where they have to dig for information, and often from multiple sources, and the more arcane the information the more likely it is that turning to groups like this will be necessary and, quite often, the fastest way to get an answer.   There's almost invariably someone else who's suffered through the same issue you're facing.

That being said, anyone receiving screen reader training that's focused on beginners needs to realize that this is exactly what you're getting.  The intent is to get you up and running and able to do "the most common and simple things" yourself quickly.  These basic skills are meant to be built upon by ongoing independent study.   Basic training will never focus on advanced skills and, if you have a good instructor, they will have told you enough about how to start noodling around and looking at your screen reader settings and/or search those (which I hope will become possible in NVDA in the foreseeable future) so that you can do your own problem solving.  And that's not to say you shouldn't ask for help, either, but sometimes help will not be forthcoming and it will be you, and your own tenacity and initiative, that ultimately uncovers the solution.  Then you'll be the subject matter expert for a particular arcane issue when someone asks about it in the future.

And it isn't just screen readers where all of the above applies.   After more than 30 years in the computing world I can tell you it applies universally when it comes to training and learning any complex software (or any complex thing outside the computing world, for that matter - think musical instruments for a very clear example).  Also accept that except in very constrained circumstances, practice seldom makes perfect, just much better.  You have to decide what's good enough for you and your purposes.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

 

We've "gotten very meta" on this topic, but this is a perfect example of where the meta information is hugely important and helpful.

One thing I feel needs to be added with regard to training, as I'm someone who does it, is that it is generally tightly constrained both by time and money (the former of which almost always being a function of availability of the latter).   It is impossible to teach everything about a screen reader, or even close to it, and I know of no one, including individuals who are far, far, far more skilled than myself with a given screen reader knowing anything close to everything about it.   We do what we can with what we know, will admit what we don't know, and will try to research questions that we don't know the answer to in real time during training when that's feasible and before the next session when not.

Both instructors and users will find themselves in positions where they have to dig for information, and often from multiple sources, and the more arcane the information the more likely it is that turning to groups like this will be necessary and, quite often, the fastest way to get an answer.   There's almost invariably someone else who's suffered through the same issue you're facing.

That being said, anyone receiving screen reader training that's focused on beginners needs to realize that this is exactly what you're getting.  The intent is to get you up and running and able to do "the most common and simple things" yourself quickly.  These basic skills are meant to be built upon by ongoing independent study.   Basic training will never focus on advanced skills and, if you have a good instructor, they will have told you enough about how to start noodling around and looking at your screen reader settings and/or search those (which I hope will become possible in NVDA in the foreseeable future) so that you can do your own problem solving.  And that's not to say you shouldn't ask for help, either, but sometimes help will not be forthcoming and it will be you, and your own tenacity and initiative, that ultimately uncovers the solution.  Then you'll be the subject matter expert for a particular arcane issue when someone asks about it in the future.

And it isn't just screen readers where all of the above applies.   After more than 30 years in the computing world I can tell you it applies universally when it comes to training and learning any complex software (or any complex thing outside the computing world, for that matter - think musical instruments for a very clear example).  Also accept that except in very constrained circumstances, practice seldom makes perfect, just much better.  You have to decide what's good enough for you and your purposes.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

Gene
 

It works well if you are already familiar with the page.  But if you are using an unfamiliar page and you search for listen using the links list, and the link actually says click here to listen Live, you won't find it.  That is one reason I believe the elements list should be taught after someone thoroughly knows how to work with web pages in other ways.  Also, if I use a page enough to just remember that the link says Listen Live, that's fine, but I don't want to micromemorize web pages.  Using search will find the link whether it says listen live or click here to listen live, so I don't have to remember that kind of detail.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2019 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

You can do that or go into the elements list and quickly type the element name. I type titl and get to title very quickly then just press enter once. Ten I type s and get to social and hit enter once. Then just use 3 to go and find the fields I want to edit. Both methods work equally well. Ther is also a filter edit box i the elements view where you can filter by for example titl or s, and it will just show those.

Take care

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 7 Oct 2019, at 8:55, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

I use the find function to find the MyCommnet,  where you log in  on my school’s website. Otherwise you’d have to activate the elements list and press the letter m until you hear MyCommnet.

The find dialog really saves me time. I just love NVDA

 😂

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 11:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

 

I actually rarely use the find function on for example http://restream.io I jut use elements list to get to title, then social to update my stuff and e to get to the firs the edit field. Man I hope one day I can edit this stuff using the app as it is just more convenient.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 7 Oct 2019, at 8:22, Devin Prater wrote:

Yes, I do like the Find function. I teach my students to use that, over the commonly taught “elements list” dinosaur. Seriously, when a website is mainly reading, the elements list skips so much, and it only makes a blind person’s life harder because if that element isn’t there anymore, or it changes from a link to a button, well there ya go. But if it’s a web app we’re working with, I try to use it as “natively” as possible, turning on focus mode, using Tab, shift+Tab, and keyboard shortcuts as much as possible.



On Oct 7, 2019, at 10:08 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

 

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 10:51 AM, Gene wrote:

But there are ways of skipping unwanted material and the fact that they are not well known indicates poor training or poor training materials being widely used.

 

The find command is one of the most useful but under or unused feature.

Indeed.   What's worse is how often I see people making the assertion, "You can't do {insert thing X}," which I know for fact you can do, and have been able to do for years.   Or stating that something is inaccessible not because it's actually inaccessible, but because they do not know how to access it.   That's one of the very reasons that questions of the form, "Is {insert program or app here} accessible with NVDA?," are allowed and encouraged on this group.  Though one can install and play with things, and actually should, when a given program either costs money and/or is quite complex it makes perfect sense to try to determine whether it's accessible or not before investing a lot of time in playing with it.   One good thing about groups, though, is that you can easily figure out when an incorrect assertion has been made based upon the typical flow of, "That's just not the case," often accompanied by instructions on how to access something that follows it.

And the screen reader find is one of the most handy and grossly underused features for "quick and dirty" movement around a given cyber landscape that I know of.  One of the tutorials I wrote ages ago,Mass Selection and Deletion of Gmail Messages via the Gmail Web Interface, was in response to several assertions of the "you can't do that, at all" nature that were offered.  And if you don't use the screen reader find function (see step 3) it is impossible to do, but with it, well . . .
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

 


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

Nimer Jaber
 

Hello,

My thoughts on web apps is that many sites use web apps these days, and it makes accessing the sites with the web apps easier in many cases.

In Gmail, users can use up/down arrow keys to traverse the list of emails. Pressing left arrow places focus in the navigation bar. Pressing enter opens an email. Pressing n/p moves between emails in the thread. Pressing x selects the email in order to do batch operations on emails. Pressing r replies, pressing a does a reply all.

These methods of navigating are so much faster than doing a find, using basic HTML, or whatever else users do to navigate Gmail. If you are unfamiliar with web apps, you would still be using basic HTML with all of its limitations.

Twitter also has a list of these keyboard shortcuts. As does Facebook. As did Google Plus. As does Google Play Music. As does Youtube to some extent.

Whether users choose to use web apps or not is dependent on them and how likely they are to adapt to a new way of navigating. I think web apps can improve efficiency, but knowing to navigate without web apps is important as well.

In the NVDA user guide, under section 6.1, there is an option of pressing NVDA+shift+space which disables browse mode commands for a particular webpage and allows the use of browse mode and web app commands. I typically don't use this, and often just turn off browse mode, but this really is up to the user to choose how to best use NVDA.

Thanks.

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 9:23 AM molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

When I received training it was with Jaws, and one of the first things I was taught  was how to use the elements list. I taught myself how to use NVDA when I got home, because there was no one else. I like to think I am pretty competent with NVDA, though I am certainly no expert.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 12:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

 

I don't think blind people should be taught the elements list until they have thoroughly mastered the find command and other ways to navigate.  Yet a lot of instructional material teaches the elements list very early.  It is not anything like any structure on the web page and it separates the user from the web page and makes teaching looking at context more difficult. 

 

Once the student has mastered other ways of working with web pages, there is plenty of time to teach this completely artificial structure.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

Sent: Monday, October 07, 2019 10:58 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

 

I enjoy using the find function as well. Particularly on lengthy pages
with lots of links and/or information. Navigating with the elements list
would just take too long. This is useful on my RSS reader web page for
instance. I subscribe to a whole bunch of feeds, over 300.



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
you, and have a great day!


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

 

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 12:36 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
the find does not find it because x menu is not expanded as of yet which makes things even harder.
There are various circles of hell, and when it comes to web pages this is one of them, and while it's far worse for the blind webpage browser it's none too fun for those of us who can see, either, as unless you've already "been there, done that" you have no idea that it exists at all.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

Sarah k Alawami
 

Oh no that's true. Luckelly this site is well done, mostly. But I have encountere s sites which are not and even the find does not find it because x menu is not expanded as of yet which makes things even harder.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 7 Oct 2019, at 9:32, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 12:26 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
You can do that or go into the elements list and quickly type the element name
The problem with this theory is it relies upon the web page developer to have bothered to have structured the page well, and often they don't.

I have nothing against the elements list, and teach people how to use it, but one needs to approach it with caution and use it in combination with other tools.  You can't count on something "not being there" because it's not in any one of the elements lists (whether in NVDA, JAWS, or any other screen reader).   You can be assured that if you do both a screen reader find and, if necessary, a straight application program find as well and can't find something that it's really not there.  I often use straight find commands when a visual scan doesn't immediately turn up what I think should be there, but I can't spot.  It's the same concept - knowing how to double and sometimes triple check yourself.

I don't think that anyone, including myself, is saying one should never use tool X or tool Y.   Being aware of the limitations of tool X and tool Y, which may mean you need to resort to tool Z upon occasion, is, however, vital.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

 

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 12:26 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
You can do that or go into the elements list and quickly type the element name
The problem with this theory is it relies upon the web page developer to have bothered to have structured the page well, and often they don't.

I have nothing against the elements list, and teach people how to use it, but one needs to approach it with caution and use it in combination with other tools.  You can't count on something "not being there" because it's not in any one of the elements lists (whether in NVDA, JAWS, or any other screen reader).   You can be assured that if you do both a screen reader find and, if necessary, a straight application program find as well and can't find something that it's really not there.  I often use straight find commands when a visual scan doesn't immediately turn up what I think should be there, but I can't spot.  It's the same concept - knowing how to double and sometimes triple check yourself.

I don't think that anyone, including myself, is saying one should never use tool X or tool Y.   Being aware of the limitations of tool X and tool Y, which may mean you need to resort to tool Z upon occasion, is, however, vital.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

molly the blind tech lover
 

I’ll have to try that

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 12:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

 

You can do that or go into the elements list and quickly type the element name. I type titl and get to title very quickly then just press enter once. Ten I type s and get to social and hit enter once. Then just use 3 to go and find the fields I want to edit. Both methods work equally well. Ther is also a filter edit box i the elements view where you can filter by for example titl or s, and it will just show those.

Take care

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 7 Oct 2019, at 8:55, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

I use the find function to find the MyCommnet,  where you log in  on my school’s website. Otherwise you’d have to activate the elements list and press the letter m until you hear MyCommnet.

The find dialog really saves me time. I just love NVDA

 😂

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 11:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

 

I actually rarely use the find function on for example http://restream.io I jut use elements list to get to title, then social to update my stuff and e to get to the firs the edit field. Man I hope one day I can edit this stuff using the app as it is just more convenient.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 7 Oct 2019, at 8:22, Devin Prater wrote:

Yes, I do like the Find function. I teach my students to use that, over the commonly taught “elements list” dinosaur. Seriously, when a website is mainly reading, the elements list skips so much, and it only makes a blind person’s life harder because if that element isn’t there anymore, or it changes from a link to a button, well there ya go. But if it’s a web app we’re working with, I try to use it as “natively” as possible, turning on focus mode, using Tab, shift+Tab, and keyboard shortcuts as much as possible.




On Oct 7, 2019, at 10:08 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

 

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 10:51 AM, Gene wrote:

But there are ways of skipping unwanted material and the fact that they are not well known indicates poor training or poor training materials being widely used.

 

The find command is one of the most useful but under or unused feature.

Indeed.   What's worse is how often I see people making the assertion, "You can't do {insert thing X}," which I know for fact you can do, and have been able to do for years.   Or stating that something is inaccessible not because it's actually inaccessible, but because they do not know how to access it.   That's one of the very reasons that questions of the form, "Is {insert program or app here} accessible with NVDA?," are allowed and encouraged on this group.  Though one can install and play with things, and actually should, when a given program either costs money and/or is quite complex it makes perfect sense to try to determine whether it's accessible or not before investing a lot of time in playing with it.   One good thing about groups, though, is that you can easily figure out when an incorrect assertion has been made based upon the typical flow of, "That's just not the case," often accompanied by instructions on how to access something that follows it.

And the screen reader find is one of the most handy and grossly underused features for "quick and dirty" movement around a given cyber landscape that I know of.  One of the tutorials I wrote ages ago,Mass Selection and Deletion of Gmail Messages via the Gmail Web Interface, was in response to several assertions of the "you can't do that, at all" nature that were offered.  And if you don't use the screen reader find function (see step 3) it is impossible to do, but with it, well . . .
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

 


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

Sarah k Alawami
 

You can do that or go into the elements list and quickly type the element name. I type titl and get to title very quickly then just press enter once. Ten I type s and get to social and hit enter once. Then just use 3 to go and find the fields I want to edit. Both methods work equally well. Ther is also a filter edit box i the elements view where you can filter by for example titl or s, and it will just show those.

Take care

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 7 Oct 2019, at 8:55, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

I use the find function to find the MyCommnet,  where you log in  on my school’s website. Otherwise you’d have to activate the elements list and press the letter m until you hear MyCommnet.

The find dialog really saves me time. I just love NVDA

 😂

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 11:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

 

I actually rarely use the find function on for example http://restream.io I jut use elements list to get to title, then social to update my stuff and e to get to the firs the edit field. Man I hope one day I can edit this stuff using the app as it is just more convenient.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 7 Oct 2019, at 8:22, Devin Prater wrote:

Yes, I do like the Find function. I teach my students to use that, over the commonly taught “elements list” dinosaur. Seriously, when a website is mainly reading, the elements list skips so much, and it only makes a blind person’s life harder because if that element isn’t there anymore, or it changes from a link to a button, well there ya go. But if it’s a web app we’re working with, I try to use it as “natively” as possible, turning on focus mode, using Tab, shift+Tab, and keyboard shortcuts as much as possible.



On Oct 7, 2019, at 10:08 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

 

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 10:51 AM, Gene wrote:

But there are ways of skipping unwanted material and the fact that they are not well known indicates poor training or poor training materials being widely used.

 

The find command is one of the most useful but under or unused feature.

Indeed.   What's worse is how often I see people making the assertion, "You can't do {insert thing X}," which I know for fact you can do, and have been able to do for years.   Or stating that something is inaccessible not because it's actually inaccessible, but because they do not know how to access it.   That's one of the very reasons that questions of the form, "Is {insert program or app here} accessible with NVDA?," are allowed and encouraged on this group.  Though one can install and play with things, and actually should, when a given program either costs money and/or is quite complex it makes perfect sense to try to determine whether it's accessible or not before investing a lot of time in playing with it.   One good thing about groups, though, is that you can easily figure out when an incorrect assertion has been made based upon the typical flow of, "That's just not the case," often accompanied by instructions on how to access something that follows it.

And the screen reader find is one of the most handy and grossly underused features for "quick and dirty" movement around a given cyber landscape that I know of.  One of the tutorials I wrote ages ago,Mass Selection and Deletion of Gmail Messages via the Gmail Web Interface, was in response to several assertions of the "you can't do that, at all" nature that were offered.  And if you don't use the screen reader find function (see step 3) it is impossible to do, but with it, well . . .
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

 


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

molly the blind tech lover
 

When I received training it was with Jaws, and one of the first things I was taught  was how to use the elements list. I taught myself how to use NVDA when I got home, because there was no one else. I like to think I am pretty competent with NVDA, though I am certainly no expert.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 12:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

 

I don't think blind people should be taught the elements list until they have thoroughly mastered the find command and other ways to navigate.  Yet a lot of instructional material teaches the elements list very early.  It is not anything like any structure on the web page and it separates the user from the web page and makes teaching looking at context more difficult. 

 

Once the student has mastered other ways of working with web pages, there is plenty of time to teach this completely artificial structure.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

Sent: Monday, October 07, 2019 10:58 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

 

I enjoy using the find function as well. Particularly on lengthy pages
with lots of links and/or information. Navigating with the elements list
would just take too long. This is useful on my RSS reader web page for
instance. I subscribe to a whole bunch of feeds, over 300.


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

Sarah k Alawami
 

Yep. If I'm on my flight briefing and I want to search for situation, I hit control nfda f, and type "sit" and keep hitting nvda f3 until I find "aircraft situation" or i can go to the elements dialogue and start typing "sit" and just hit enter, what ever fir me is faster at the time.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 7 Oct 2019, at 9:02, Gene wrote:

How much do you type of Mycommnet?  Another thing I doubt most people know, is that, when using the find command, typing the first four or five letters of what you are looking for is usually adequate.  If I want to find the editorial link on a newspaper site, I search for editorr and if I want to find a contact link, I search for cont.  Sometimes, such as on the Newsline site, I search for rk ti for New York Times.  Note that this isn't starting at the beginning of the first word, it is typing a small amount of what I'm searching for in the middle of the string that won't be used elsewhere on the publications list page. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2019 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

I use the find function to find the MyCommnet,  where you log in  on my school’s website. Otherwise you’d have to activate the elements list and press the letter m until you hear MyCommnet.

The find dialog really saves me time. I just love NVDA

 😂

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 11:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

 

I actually rarely use the find function on for example http://restream.io I jut use elements list to get to title, then social to update my stuff and e to get to the firs the edit field. Man I hope one day I can edit this stuff using the app as it is just more convenient.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 7 Oct 2019, at 8:22, Devin Prater wrote:

Yes, I do like the Find function. I teach my students to use that, over the commonly taught “elements list” dinosaur. Seriously, when a website is mainly reading, the elements list skips so much, and it only makes a blind person’s life harder because if that element isn’t there anymore, or it changes from a link to a button, well there ya go. But if it’s a web app we’re working with, I try to use it as “natively” as possible, turning on focus mode, using Tab, shift+Tab, and keyboard shortcuts as much as possible.



On Oct 7, 2019, at 10:08 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

 

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 10:51 AM, Gene wrote:

But there are ways of skipping unwanted material and the fact that they are not well known indicates poor training or poor training materials being widely used.

 

The find command is one of the most useful but under or unused feature.

Indeed.   What's worse is how often I see people making the assertion, "You can't do {insert thing X}," which I know for fact you can do, and have been able to do for years.   Or stating that something is inaccessible not because it's actually inaccessible, but because they do not know how to access it.   That's one of the very reasons that questions of the form, "Is {insert program or app here} accessible with NVDA?," are allowed and encouraged on this group.  Though one can install and play with things, and actually should, when a given program either costs money and/or is quite complex it makes perfect sense to try to determine whether it's accessible or not before investing a lot of time in playing with it.   One good thing about groups, though, is that you can easily figure out when an incorrect assertion has been made based upon the typical flow of, "That's just not the case," often accompanied by instructions on how to access something that follows it.

And the screen reader find is one of the most handy and grossly underused features for "quick and dirty" movement around a given cyber landscape that I know of.  One of the tutorials I wrote ages ago,Mass Selection and Deletion of Gmail Messages via the Gmail Web Interface, was in response to several assertions of the "you can't do that, at all" nature that were offered.  And if you don't use the screen reader find function (see step 3) it is impossible to do, but with it, well . . .
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

 


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

molly the blind tech lover
 

I just type the whole thing…

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 12:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

 

How much do you type of Mycommnet?  Another thing I doubt most people know, is that, when using the find command, typing the first four or five letters of what you are looking for is usually adequate.  If I want to find the editorial link on a newspaper site, I search for editorr and if I want to find a contact link, I search for cont.  Sometimes, such as on the Newsline site, I search for rk ti for New York Times.  Note that this isn't starting at the beginning of the first word, it is typing a small amount of what I'm searching for in the middle of the string that won't be used elsewhere on the publications list page. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, October 07, 2019 10:55 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

 

I use the find function to find the MyCommnet,  where you log in  on my school’s website. Otherwise you’d have to activate the elements list and press the letter m until you hear MyCommnet.

The find dialog really saves me time. I just love NVDA

 😂

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 11:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

 

I actually rarely use the find function on for example http://restream.io I jut use elements list to get to title, then social to update my stuff and e to get to the firs the edit field. Man I hope one day I can edit this stuff using the app as it is just more convenient.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 7 Oct 2019, at 8:22, Devin Prater wrote:

Yes, I do like the Find function. I teach my students to use that, over the commonly taught “elements list” dinosaur. Seriously, when a website is mainly reading, the elements list skips so much, and it only makes a blind person’s life harder because if that element isn’t there anymore, or it changes from a link to a button, well there ya go. But if it’s a web app we’re working with, I try to use it as “natively” as possible, turning on focus mode, using Tab, shift+Tab, and keyboard shortcuts as much as possible.

 

On Oct 7, 2019, at 10:08 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

 

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 10:51 AM, Gene wrote:

But there are ways of skipping unwanted material and the fact that they are not well known indicates poor training or poor training materials being widely used.

 

The find command is one of the most useful but under or unused feature.

Indeed.   What's worse is how often I see people making the assertion, "You can't do {insert thing X}," which I know for fact you can do, and have been able to do for years.   Or stating that something is inaccessible not because it's actually inaccessible, but because they do not know how to access it.   That's one of the very reasons that questions of the form, "Is {insert program or app here} accessible with NVDA?," are allowed and encouraged on this group.  Though one can install and play with things, and actually should, when a given program either costs money and/or is quite complex it makes perfect sense to try to determine whether it's accessible or not before investing a lot of time in playing with it.   One good thing about groups, though, is that you can easily figure out when an incorrect assertion has been made based upon the typical flow of, "That's just not the case," often accompanied by instructions on how to access something that follows it.

And the screen reader find is one of the most handy and grossly underused features for "quick and dirty" movement around a given cyber landscape that I know of.  One of the tutorials I wrote ages ago,Mass Selection and Deletion of Gmail Messages via the Gmail Web Interface, was in response to several assertions of the "you can't do that, at all" nature that were offered.  And if you don't use the screen reader find function (see step 3) it is impossible to do, but with it, well . . .
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

 


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

 

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 12:02 PM, Gene wrote:
Another thing I doubt most people know, is that, when using the find command, typing the first four or five letters of what you are looking for is usually adequate.
And this isn't just true on screen reader finds, either.   As a general first pass one should provide only enough to be distinctive enough to narrow results to what one thinks one wants.   You can't use, say, "the," as a search term and expect to get anything that anyone would want to trudge through.  But, by contrast, using "geot" when you know a document has (or may have) the word "geothermal" in it is generally more than enough.  There just aren't many words in the English language that start with those 4 letters, and specifically if one is dealing with a single document or webpage.

Web searches are a thing of their own, and different.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

Gene
 

I don't think blind people should be taught the elements list until they have thoroughly mastered the find command and other ways to navigate.  Yet a lot of instructional material teaches the elements list very early.  It is not anything like any structure on the web page and it separates the user from the web page and makes teaching looking at context more difficult. 
 
Once the student has mastered other ways of working with web pages, there is plenty of time to teach this completely artificial structure.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, October 07, 2019 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

I enjoy using the find function as well. Particularly on lengthy pages
with lots of links and/or information. Navigating with the elements list
would just take too long. This is useful on my RSS reader web page for
instance. I subscribe to a whole bunch of feeds, over 300.



Re: Are web applications that accessible?

Gene
 

How much do you type of Mycommnet?  Another thing I doubt most people know, is that, when using the find command, typing the first four or five letters of what you are looking for is usually adequate.  If I want to find the editorial link on a newspaper site, I search for editorr and if I want to find a contact link, I search for cont.  Sometimes, such as on the Newsline site, I search for rk ti for New York Times.  Note that this isn't starting at the beginning of the first word, it is typing a small amount of what I'm searching for in the middle of the string that won't be used elsewhere on the publications list page. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2019 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

I use the find function to find the MyCommnet,  where you log in  on my school’s website. Otherwise you’d have to activate the elements list and press the letter m until you hear MyCommnet.

The find dialog really saves me time. I just love NVDA

 😂

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 11:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

 

I actually rarely use the find function on for example http://restream.io I jut use elements list to get to title, then social to update my stuff and e to get to the firs the edit field. Man I hope one day I can edit this stuff using the app as it is just more convenient.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 7 Oct 2019, at 8:22, Devin Prater wrote:

Yes, I do like the Find function. I teach my students to use that, over the commonly taught “elements list” dinosaur. Seriously, when a website is mainly reading, the elements list skips so much, and it only makes a blind person’s life harder because if that element isn’t there anymore, or it changes from a link to a button, well there ya go. But if it’s a web app we’re working with, I try to use it as “natively” as possible, turning on focus mode, using Tab, shift+Tab, and keyboard shortcuts as much as possible.



On Oct 7, 2019, at 10:08 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

 

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 10:51 AM, Gene wrote:

But there are ways of skipping unwanted material and the fact that they are not well known indicates poor training or poor training materials being widely used.

 

The find command is one of the most useful but under or unused feature.

Indeed.   What's worse is how often I see people making the assertion, "You can't do {insert thing X}," which I know for fact you can do, and have been able to do for years.   Or stating that something is inaccessible not because it's actually inaccessible, but because they do not know how to access it.   That's one of the very reasons that questions of the form, "Is {insert program or app here} accessible with NVDA?," are allowed and encouraged on this group.  Though one can install and play with things, and actually should, when a given program either costs money and/or is quite complex it makes perfect sense to try to determine whether it's accessible or not before investing a lot of time in playing with it.   One good thing about groups, though, is that you can easily figure out when an incorrect assertion has been made based upon the typical flow of, "That's just not the case," often accompanied by instructions on how to access something that follows it.

And the screen reader find is one of the most handy and grossly underused features for "quick and dirty" movement around a given cyber landscape that I know of.  One of the tutorials I wrote ages ago,Mass Selection and Deletion of Gmail Messages via the Gmail Web Interface, was in response to several assertions of the "you can't do that, at all" nature that were offered.  And if you don't use the screen reader find function (see step 3) it is impossible to do, but with it, well . . .
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

 


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

Hope Williamson <hopeisjoyful@...>
 

I use the pass through on Youtube a lot. I don't have autoplay enabled so it's easy to just be able to pass it right through.