Date   

Re: NVDA and the application key

Sarah k Alawami
 

Can you send a log to the list when you get this to happen? Hit nvda plus. f1 twice ad copy the text to the clipboard and paste it in a reply to this message.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 7 Oct 2019, at 18:18, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi Manoj,

The latest update to NVDA is 2019 point 2 point 1, but some synthesizers read this as February 1 2019, so I think that sounds like you might have the latest version.  Otherwise it's available from: https://www.nvaccess.org/download or from the Help menu, check for updates.  We must find a way to release point releases without making it look like a date :)

Did you try restarting with add-ons disabled?

Quentin.

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 11:12 AM Manoj Govindraj <manmusical9@...> wrote:
Just to clarify,

The latest update of NVDA that I installed said Feb 2019. Hope I am
not missing anything.

Manoj

On 10/7/19, Manoj Govindraj via Groups.Io
<manmusical9=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
> Hi Quentin,
>
> The context menu opens for sure, as I pressed the up arrow key twice
> to choose the rename option and it opens up the rename window. But at
> no point does NVDA announce or report anything. I tried shift plus F10
> but with no success.
>
> Manoj
>
> On 10/7/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
>> Hi Manoj,
>>
>> When you say it's not announcing the options, does it tell you it has
>> opened a menu (the exact wording varies between programs, but it usually
>> announces some variation of "menu", "submenu", etc)?
>>
>> When you arrow through the context menu options does it report anything?
>>
>> If it isn't reporting anything, is it definitely opening the menu?
>> SHIFT+F10 is another way to open the context menu, and in many places
>> Using NVDA 2019.2 on Windows 10 version 18362.1, NVDA reports the context
>> menu for me in all the programs I've tried recently, and then the options
>> in the menu.  NUMPAD Multiply (or NVDA+] if using laptop keyboard layout)
>> presses the right mouse button.  Depending on exactly where the mouse is
>> on
>> screen, the menu presented might be different, but it will almost always
>> give you a context menu, so would work in this case to ascertain whether
>> the menu appears.
>>
>>
>> Are you using any NVDA add-ons?  If you press NVDA+Q then down arrow to
>> "Restart with add-ons disabled" does the context menu work then?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Quentin.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 7:28 AM Manoj Govindraj <manmusical9@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Friends,
>>> Lately NVDA is not announcing the options for me when I press the
>>> Application key. I have the latest update of NVDA installed on my
>>> windows 10 64 bit pc.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Manoj
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://www.swar-ras.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Quentin Christensen
>> Training and Support Manager
>>
>> Web: www.nvaccess.org
>> Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>> Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
>> User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>> Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> http://www.swar-ras.com
>
>
>
>


--
http://www.swar-ras.com





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: NVDA and the application key

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Manoj,

The latest update to NVDA is 2019 point 2 point 1, but some synthesizers read this as February 1 2019, so I think that sounds like you might have the latest version.  Otherwise it's available from: https://www.nvaccess.org/download or from the Help menu, check for updates.  We must find a way to release point releases without making it look like a date :)

Did you try restarting with add-ons disabled?

Quentin.

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 11:12 AM Manoj Govindraj <manmusical9@...> wrote:
Just to clarify,

The latest update of NVDA that I installed said Feb 2019. Hope I am
not missing anything.

Manoj

On 10/7/19, Manoj Govindraj via Groups.Io
<manmusical9=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
> Hi Quentin,
>
> The context menu opens for sure, as I pressed the up arrow key twice
> to choose the rename option and it opens up the rename window. But at
> no point does NVDA announce or report anything. I tried shift plus F10
> but with no success.
>
> Manoj
>
> On 10/7/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
>> Hi Manoj,
>>
>> When you say it's not announcing the options, does it tell you it has
>> opened a menu (the exact wording varies between programs, but it usually
>> announces some variation of "menu", "submenu", etc)?
>>
>> When you arrow through the context menu options does it report anything?
>>
>> If it isn't reporting anything, is it definitely opening the menu?
>> SHIFT+F10 is another way to open the context menu, and in many places
>> Using NVDA 2019.2 on Windows 10 version 18362.1, NVDA reports the context
>> menu for me in all the programs I've tried recently, and then the options
>> in the menu.  NUMPAD Multiply (or NVDA+] if using laptop keyboard layout)
>> presses the right mouse button.  Depending on exactly where the mouse is
>> on
>> screen, the menu presented might be different, but it will almost always
>> give you a context menu, so would work in this case to ascertain whether
>> the menu appears.
>>
>>
>> Are you using any NVDA add-ons?  If you press NVDA+Q then down arrow to
>> "Restart with add-ons disabled" does the context menu work then?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Quentin.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 7:28 AM Manoj Govindraj <manmusical9@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Friends,
>>> Lately NVDA is not announcing the options for me when I press the
>>> Application key. I have the latest update of NVDA installed on my
>>> windows 10 64 bit pc.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Manoj
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://www.swar-ras.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Quentin Christensen
>> Training and Support Manager
>>
>> Web: www.nvaccess.org
>> Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>> Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
>> User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>> Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> http://www.swar-ras.com
>
>
>
>


--
http://www.swar-ras.com





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: using screen layout

Sarah k Alawami
 

I use screen layout all the time as I get to learn the layout of the pge. It's not always ideal but I've gotten used to it.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 7 Oct 2019, at 17:21, Gene wrote:

Screen layout means that, at times, where you would see only one link per line if screen layout is off, if it is on, you may see two or more links on a line.
 
There are places, such as in some user forums, where it may be useful to see material in this way.  I think that, in general browsing, it is better to see each link on its own line.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Don H
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2019 7:13 PM
Subject: [nvda] using screen layout

Under browser settings there a setting for using Screen layout.  For
overall performance with both Google Chrome and Firefox should this
setting be enabled?
Thanks




Re: using screen layout

Gene
 

Screen layout means that, at times, where you would see only one link per line if screen layout is off, if it is on, you may see two or more links on a line.
 
There are places, such as in some user forums, where it may be useful to see material in this way.  I think that, in general browsing, it is better to see each link on its own line.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Don H
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2019 7:13 PM
Subject: [nvda] using screen layout

Under browser settings there a setting for using Screen layout.  For
overall performance with both Google Chrome and Firefox should this
setting be enabled?
Thanks




using screen layout

Don H
 

Under browser settings there a setting for using Screen layout. For overall performance with both Google Chrome and Firefox should this setting be enabled?
Thanks


Re: NVDA and the application key

Manoj Govindraj <manmusical9@...>
 

Just to clarify,

The latest update of NVDA that I installed said Feb 2019. Hope I am
not missing anything.

Manoj

On 10/7/19, Manoj Govindraj via Groups.Io
<manmusical9=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Quentin,

The context menu opens for sure, as I pressed the up arrow key twice
to choose the rename option and it opens up the rename window. But at
no point does NVDA announce or report anything. I tried shift plus F10
but with no success.

Manoj

On 10/7/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
Hi Manoj,

When you say it's not announcing the options, does it tell you it has
opened a menu (the exact wording varies between programs, but it usually
announces some variation of "menu", "submenu", etc)?

When you arrow through the context menu options does it report anything?

If it isn't reporting anything, is it definitely opening the menu?
SHIFT+F10 is another way to open the context menu, and in many places
Using NVDA 2019.2 on Windows 10 version 18362.1, NVDA reports the context
menu for me in all the programs I've tried recently, and then the options
in the menu. NUMPAD Multiply (or NVDA+] if using laptop keyboard layout)
presses the right mouse button. Depending on exactly where the mouse is
on
screen, the menu presented might be different, but it will almost always
give you a context menu, so would work in this case to ascertain whether
the menu appears.


Are you using any NVDA add-ons? If you press NVDA+Q then down arrow to
"Restart with add-ons disabled" does the context menu work then?

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 7:28 AM Manoj Govindraj <manmusical9@...>
wrote:

Hi Friends,
Lately NVDA is not announcing the options for me when I press the
Application key. I have the latest update of NVDA installed on my
windows 10 64 bit pc.

Best,
Manoj

--
http://www.swar-ras.com



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>




--
http://www.swar-ras.com




--
http://www.swar-ras.com


Re: NVDA and the application key

Manoj Govindraj <manmusical9@...>
 

Hi Quentin,

The context menu opens for sure, as I pressed the up arrow key twice
to choose the rename option and it opens up the rename window. But at
no point does NVDA announce or report anything. I tried shift plus F10
but with no success.

Manoj

On 10/7/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
Hi Manoj,

When you say it's not announcing the options, does it tell you it has
opened a menu (the exact wording varies between programs, but it usually
announces some variation of "menu", "submenu", etc)?

When you arrow through the context menu options does it report anything?

If it isn't reporting anything, is it definitely opening the menu?
SHIFT+F10 is another way to open the context menu, and in many places
Using NVDA 2019.2 on Windows 10 version 18362.1, NVDA reports the context
menu for me in all the programs I've tried recently, and then the options
in the menu. NUMPAD Multiply (or NVDA+] if using laptop keyboard layout)
presses the right mouse button. Depending on exactly where the mouse is on
screen, the menu presented might be different, but it will almost always
give you a context menu, so would work in this case to ascertain whether
the menu appears.


Are you using any NVDA add-ons? If you press NVDA+Q then down arrow to
"Restart with add-ons disabled" does the context menu work then?

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 7:28 AM Manoj Govindraj <manmusical9@...>
wrote:

Hi Friends,
Lately NVDA is not announcing the options for me when I press the
Application key. I have the latest update of NVDA installed on my
windows 10 64 bit pc.

Best,
Manoj

--
http://www.swar-ras.com



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>




Re: NVDA and the application key

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Manoj,

When you say it's not announcing the options, does it tell you it has opened a menu (the exact wording varies between programs, but it usually announces some variation of "menu", "submenu", etc)?

When you arrow through the context menu options does it report anything?

If it isn't reporting anything, is it definitely opening the menu?  SHIFT+F10 is another way to open the context menu, and in many places 
Using NVDA 2019.2 on Windows 10 version 18362.1, NVDA reports the context menu for me in all the programs I've tried recently, and then the options in the menu.  NUMPAD Multiply (or NVDA+] if using laptop keyboard layout) presses the right mouse button.  Depending on exactly where the mouse is on screen, the menu presented might be different, but it will almost always give you a context menu, so would work in this case to ascertain whether the menu appears.


Are you using any NVDA add-ons?  If you press NVDA+Q then down arrow to "Restart with add-ons disabled" does the context menu work then?  

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 7:28 AM Manoj Govindraj <manmusical9@...> wrote:
Hi Friends,
Lately NVDA is not announcing the options for me when I press the
Application key. I have the latest update of NVDA installed on my
windows 10 64 bit pc.

Best,
Manoj

--
http://www.swar-ras.com





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: nvda and volume change

Quentin Christensen
 

I'm not aware of an issue - I too would assume that audio ducking is enabled, and, when disabled, should resolve the original poster's issue here.

Whether audio ducking was inadvertently turned on, or whether something else has happened would be good to find out - obviously especially if there is a problem, but either way, it's always good to find out.

Quentin.

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 1:33 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
I sense that something's afoot here, as this topic, Volume issue, which is very similar in nature came up on the Chat Subgroup (even though it would have been fine here - I hasten to add) several days ago.

I zeroed in on the same likely potential cause as Mr. Stewart.  There was never any confirmation regarding whether ducking was involved, though.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: NVDA and the application key

Manoj Govindraj <manmusical9@...>
 

Actually it happens all across the board and in all the programs that I open. When I press the application key, NVDA does not even say context menu, let alone saying any of the options present in that menu.

Best,
Manoj

On Oct 7, 2019, at 4:56 PM, hurrikennyandopo ... <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

Hi


Is it happening any where else? for example down on the running application part of the task bar it should speak them Have you noticed it doing it any where else?

Or is it just saying unknown? or are they been spoken out.


Gene nz


On 8/10/2019 9:28 AM, Manoj Govindraj wrote:
Hi Friends,
Lately NVDA is not announcing the options for me when I press the
Application key. I have the latest update of NVDA installed on my
windows 10 64 bit pc.

Best,
Manoj

-- 
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related materials at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net

To find out which library networks in New Zealand have a copy of the NVDA screen reader on them and there library locations please go to http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/nz%20libraries%20with%20nvda.html
To find a NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: Directing NVDA output to a particular audio device

Kevin Cussick
 

correct, you have it it will work.

On 07/10/2019 20:40, Luke Davis wrote:
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019, Gene wrote:

If you want the NVDA audio to go through the USB soundcard, you would set NVDA to use that sound card.  This is done within NVDA itself.
But I don't know how you direct the other audio to use the original internal sound card.  Others would have to answer that.  I've never tried such a
setting.
Would you not just set the internal card as the Windows default?
I have certainly done the opposite before: set a USB card as Windows default, and set NVDA to use the internal card, so I don't see why the inverse wouldn't work.
Luke


Re: NVDA and the application key

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


Is it happening any where else? for example down on the running application part of the task bar it should speak them Have you noticed it doing it any where else?

Or is it just saying unknown? or are they been spoken out.


Gene nz


On 8/10/2019 9:28 AM, Manoj Govindraj wrote:
Hi Friends,
Lately NVDA is not announcing the options for me when I press the
Application key. I have the latest update of NVDA installed on my
windows 10 64 bit pc.

Best,
Manoj

--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related materials at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net

To find out which library networks in New Zealand have a copy of the NVDA screen reader on them and there library locations please go to http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/nz%20libraries%20with%20nvda.html
To find a NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


NVDA and the application key

Manoj Govindraj <manmusical9@...>
 

Hi Friends,
Lately NVDA is not announcing the options for me when I press the
Application key. I have the latest update of NVDA installed on my
windows 10 64 bit pc.

Best,
Manoj

--
http://www.swar-ras.com


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

 

Well web apps are quite accessible, and in some way more than web apps as long as they comply with webpage accessibility.

Sadly, just like desktop apps there are a lot of technologies about and things and if things are not done right you will have in access.

On 8/10/2019 1:25 am, Vincent Le Goff wrote:
Hello everyone,


Having used several Web applications in the last few years, I've been wondering why we still want desktop applications and claim for accessibility.  This thread is more to ask for opinion on the matter and perhaps, collect useful ideas we can shape into NVDA features or suggest to web application designers.  This is not a "plea for help" topic, but I don't think I'm breaking list rules (I hope not anyway), as this could benefit NVDA and is not a trivial issue.


Web apps are trendy.  And that's probably going to last for awhile, if not replace our Desktop applicaitons.  But for us, is it really a good news?  Why does a Desktop app tends to feel "more accessible" than a web app?  The thing is, there are lots of reasons why we appreciate our Desktop applications and get frustrated when we have to get the web application if a Desktop equivalent doesn't exist.  Beyond the fact that we're "used" to how an application works (which, obviously, is not the case when there's no Desktop equivalent), a website is in most cases incredibly more complex for us.  First of all, there are two navigation modes to understand and switch between instead of just one plain "way to do things".  There's no clear menubar and when we get an accessible menu, we can clap and send cookies to the web designer.  Sometimes (but not often) there's a real context menu we can really, you know, invoke from the application key and browse through the arrow keys.  And sometimes (often, to be sure), there are shortcuts to perform "standard" operations in the web app.


So do we just need to rethink our expectation of what an accessible application mean?  Some would say "come on! instead of using H and shift-H in Facebook app to browse posts, you use J and K, big deal!" But that's a big deal, because keyboard shortcuts are far from consistent.  Instead of screen reader shortcuts which can be somewhat standard and usable in most Desktop applications, web designers working on web applications feel like creating shortcuts that don't always make sense for screen reader users. Some conflicts with screen reader operations.  Some are just strange.  A user on this list asked if they could find an "accessible Facebook client".  Others said "Facebook is accessible".  While I agree 9I do use Facebook myself) I would tend to agree with the original poster: a web application is just not as simple as, say, a nice tree view with recent posts when you can just press the right-arrow to see the comments, or reactions, and press the application key to like, love, comment yourself.  I don't mean to critize Facebook here: they did a good job or creating such an application.  And I've seen much more problematic in terms of web apps.  I just want to point out there's a significant difference between a web application and desktop application in terms of accessibility.


So the answer to this thread, for me, would be "no".  Web applications are manageable.  They're not as accessible as a Desktop application for us.  And, might I say it, I doubt they ever will.  But let's remain optimistic here: there might be ways to improve global web applications on a screen reader level, not on an individual level.  Gmail is often quoted as being one of the best web application out there, regarding accessibility.  And frankly I really like it.  I would use it, but... yeah, I still use Thunderbird, just because some keyboard shortcuts feel awkward and I have other accounts that are not fortunate enough to use Gmail.  So perhaps I'm mistaken and web applications can and should improve.  In which case, perhaps we should just discuss means to bring the bad news to web designers.  I do it on an individual level when seeing a web application I can't access. But our efforts might be best invested in a group or something similar.


So, if this post is not too much frowned upon by NVDA moderators (I guess it could just be considered off-topic), I would really appreciate your thoughts on that.


Thanks in advance,


Vincent



.


General philosophical and practical question in regard to add-on/extension development for NVDA

 

Am I imagining it, or was it not recently stated that the only way new (that is, not already extant) add-ons/extensions for NVDA would only be given official blessing if they are released under one of the open-source licensing paradigms?  (I forget which one and I could be completely wrong, hence the question).

While I realize that one cannot retroactively apply this, it would certainly make sense to do so going forward.  It's in keeping with NVDA itself and it allows anyone, literally anyone, so inclined and with the skills to do so to pick up and improve any given add-on/extension.

What people do with extensions that they develop for themselves is completely different than what is developed with broad distribution in mind.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

 

About web apps:

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 03:14 PM, Vincent Le Goff wrote:
And all of them offer different keyboard shortcuts.
To an extent that's true, and it's a result of web development history.

Desktop apps (installed application programs) under Windows are a very direct transition from their DOS equivalents way back when, and Microsoft had established a de facto standard surrounding keyboard shortcuts for those, which many people then adopted.

You can see the same sort of thing going on right now, but in a different direction, with Narrator under Windows 10.   It is in the process of becoming more and more JAWS-like since JAWS is the granddaddy of all screen readers in the market and the one that most are familiar with.   Even NVDA clearly has "command DNA" that was adopted from JAWS.

Eventually, some dominant paradigm will emerge victorious (think back to Beta versus VHS, for those here old enough to get the referent).   There has been a decades long trend toward this sort of thing occurring across different software (and, even to some extent, operating systems).

We just so happen to be in the infancy of that battle, on the bleeding edge as is often said.  Eventually the bleeding stops.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Clipspeak addon compatibility status

Kevin Cussick
 

Hi, no no, let me thank you for your efforts. I love this addon and hope it will be maintained at some point to be made to work with the next up and coming Nvda.

On 06/10/2019 22:57, Damien Garwood wrote:
Hi Joseph,
I'll leave this one up to you. It does have a few bugs that I wouldn't know how to resolve, not knowing enough about the NVDA codebase and Windows API programming (perhaps one of the biggest being that sometimes seemingly at random, operations fail to work, with a close second being that it can easily interfere with applications which have a different purpose for the keys that Clipspeak uses). Based on this, if you still feel that the community has use for it, then anyone who likes may take up the reins.
Meantime, for me, I think I need to do a heck of a lot more reading and experimenting and private failing (yes Damien, note to self, private being the key word there), before I start trying to publish another addon, let alone update my existing ones. I feel like I've already let the community down as it is with my lousy attempts. I'm determined not to metaphorically flood the kitchen next time I wash up.
Cheers,
Damien.
On 06/10/2019 10:13 pm, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Mostly having to do with add-on manifest issue. I'm willing to make it "compatible" but if and only if Damien gives the community permission to do so.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 2:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Clipspeak addon compatibility status

this addon does not work with the latest alpha snaps.   i suppose this
is because it is not compatible with python3 yet?   Joseph or someone
else can answer.

On 06/10/2019 16:04, Brian Vogel wrote:
Well, Clipspeak
<https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/clipspeak.en.html> is still
downloadable from the NVDA Stable Add-Ons Page
<https://addons.nvda-project.org/index.en.html>, and so long as it
remains there I presume it works.  Things generally get removed if
they become incompatible with the current version of NVDA.

Damien Garwood is the author, and is a member of this group.  In the
case of Add-Ons, consulting with their respective authors is the best
way to find out whether they're being actively maintained and whether
they are slated to work with the Python 3 code base.
--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362

*The color of truth is grey.*

             ~ André Gide






Re: Clipspeak addon compatibility status

Kevin Cussick
 

Hi, agreed, but I also agree that after say 3 months of an author who does not answer queries about His or Her addon should expect someone to take it over without any consent.

On 06/10/2019 22:56, molly the blind tech lover wrote:
I love clipspeak. It is extremely useful.
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* Sunday, October 6, 2019 5:43 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Clipspeak addon compatibility status
I'm not saying that this problem will occur regarding this add-on, I don't think it will, but the possible situation should be discussed.
I saw Joseph's message about needing to obtain permission before making the add-on compatible.  This raises the question of providing, in some sort of agreement regarding add-ons, that under specified conditions an add-on will be considered to be in the public domain.  An add-on that is abandoned but not in the public domain is in danger of not being updated and becoming useless or significantly degraded as NVDA or the program it works with changes.
Of course, the rights of those who provide add-ons for profit should be protected but it is, in my opinion, a serious violation of the spirit of NVDA that an add-on can be abandoned by its developer, and still not be able to be modified to keep it current.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:*molly the blind tech lover <mailto:brainardmolly@...>
*Sent:*Sunday, October 06, 2019 4:35 PM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] Clipspeak addon compatibility status
I just looked at the website listing the compatibility of add-ons with python 3.  It says clipspeak isn't compatible. Here's the link
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/nvdapy3.en.html
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 5:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Clipspeak addon compatibility status
this addon does not work with the latest alpha snaps.   i suppose this
is because it is not compatible with python3 yet?   Joseph or someone
else can answer.
On 06/10/2019 16:04, Brian Vogel wrote:
> Well, Clipspeak
> <https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/clipspeak.en.html> is still
> downloadable from the NVDA Stable Add-Ons Page
> <https://addons.nvda-project.org/index.en.html>, and so long as it
> remains there I presume it works.  Things generally get removed if
> they become incompatible with the current version of NVDA.
>
> Damien Garwood is the author, and is a member of this group.  In the
> case of Add-Ons, consulting with their respective authors is the best
> way to find out whether they're being actively maintained and whether
> they are slated to work with the Python 3 code base.
> --
>
> Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362
>
> *The color of truth is grey.*
>
>             ~ André Gide
>
>


Re: Directing NVDA output to a particular audio device

Luke Davis
 

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019, Gene wrote:

If you want the NVDA audio to go through the USB soundcard, you would set NVDA to use that sound card.  This is done within NVDA itself.
But I don't know how you direct the other audio to use the original internal sound card.  Others would have to answer that.  I've never tried such a
setting.
Would you not just set the internal card as the Windows default?

I have certainly done the opposite before: set a USB card as Windows default, and set NVDA to use the internal card, so I don't see why the inverse wouldn't work.

Luke


Re: Are web applications that accessible?

Vincent Le Goff <vincent.legoff.srs@...>
 

Hello again,


To narrow it down to a very specific feature mentioned here: keyboard shortcuts in web apps.  As was mentioned in a previous post, the list of available shortcuts in Gmail isn't short.  Lots can be done through the keyboard.  Going through the list of messages using the up/down arrow keys is definitely something most people will expect.  Opening the message when pressing Enter is another.  But here's the catch: pressing X to select a message?  Why on earth... the thing is, pressing space would have felt more natural to most of us, but intercepting the space key is not that portable on web applications.  Pressing left arrow to open the navigation bar is great, but shouldn't alt have been used?  And yet, of course, in a web application, alt is to access the browser menu bar, not the application's.


In the previous post, lots of web applications were mentioned.  The thing is, not all of them have as good support as Gmail.  And all of them offer different keyboard shortcuts.  That's the problem, I think, or at least, one of the problems: if we have to bow to web applications and say "well, no point in avoiding them, let's get on a first-name basis instead", it also means that we'll need to learn individual application shortcut.  Am I suggesting it's not the case in a desktop application?  Yes and no.  In a Desktop application, often what you can do is connected to the type of element you are on.  You know if you are focused on a list, you might use the arrow keys to browse it.  You might use letters to jump to individual list items.  In a web application, things are a bit more complex, as the connection between "element type" and "shortcut keys" is pretty loose.  ARIA encourages a very good structure and helps to create Javascript aligned with users' expectation.  But still, it's the developer's responsibility to create keyboard shortcuts that "make sense" to users.  And all developers seem to have different ideas about what makes sense.


So what would be the solution?  Having some kind of "shortcut key standard" might sound a bit extreme and definite.  But I believe something has to be done in regard to "freely used keyboard shortcut" to try and come up with something more universal.


I'll state it again though: for me, it's only one of the problems with web applications, but I admit it's (still in my opinion) a rather important one.  How to teach to be proficient with a screen reader is going to become "how to be proficient with Youtube" or "how to be proficient with Gmail".  Not saying that's not important, just that a bit of uniformity would be welcome here.  The tools exist too.  Regardless, I would find it too bad if new users were taught to use such and such web application, not how to use a computer, or a screen reader.


Vincent

On 10/7/2019 6:43 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,

My thoughts on web apps is that many sites use web apps these days, and it makes accessing the sites with the web apps easier in many cases.

In Gmail, users can use up/down arrow keys to traverse the list of emails. Pressing left arrow places focus in the navigation bar. Pressing enter opens an email. Pressing n/p moves between emails in the thread. Pressing x selects the email in order to do batch operations on emails. Pressing r replies, pressing a does a reply all.

These methods of navigating are so much faster than doing a find, using basic HTML, or whatever else users do to navigate Gmail. If you are unfamiliar with web apps, you would still be using basic HTML with all of its limitations.

Twitter also has a list of these keyboard shortcuts. As does Facebook. As did Google Plus. As does Google Play Music. As does Youtube to some extent.

Whether users choose to use web apps or not is dependent on them and how likely they are to adapt to a new way of navigating. I think web apps can improve efficiency, but knowing to navigate without web apps is important as well.

In the NVDA user guide, under section 6.1, there is an option of pressing NVDA+shift+space which disables browse mode commands for a particular webpage and allows the use of browse mode and web app commands. I typically don't use this, and often just turn off browse mode, but this really is up to the user to choose how to best use NVDA.

Thanks.

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 9:23 AM molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

When I received training it was with Jaws, and one of the first things I was taught  was how to use the elements list. I taught myself how to use NVDA when I got home, because there was no one else. I like to think I am pretty competent with NVDA, though I am certainly no expert.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 12:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

 

I don't think blind people should be taught the elements list until they have thoroughly mastered the find command and other ways to navigate.  Yet a lot of instructional material teaches the elements list very early.  It is not anything like any structure on the web page and it separates the user from the web page and makes teaching looking at context more difficult. 

 

Once the student has mastered other ways of working with web pages, there is plenty of time to teach this completely artificial structure.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

Sent: Monday, October 07, 2019 10:58 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

 

I enjoy using the find function as well. Particularly on lengthy pages
with lots of links and/or information. Navigating with the elements list
would just take too long. This is useful on my RSS reader web page for
instance. I subscribe to a whole bunch of feeds, over 300.



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