On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 10:17 AM, Sile wrote:

But my first tack is to write back to ask google why, when they have a fully staffed accessibility unit, they are asking me to test the accessibility of a product they own (the nest thermostat) on a browser they built (chrome).

Because, as I've said before about many issues, most of them are idiosyncratic to the machine in question.   They may not even be able to reproduce your issue, so if you want them to look at it then it's up to you to submit samples.   That's the way it works.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

Audacity is good at this. They have a tutorial page that instructs on how to do it:

https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/tutorial_recording_computer_playback_on_windows.html

Luke

On Mon, 14 Oct 2019, Sile via Groups.Io wrote:

What is the easiest way to capture the audio from NVDA - I have to send feedback on a webpage to Google and they asked me to navigate and send them the audio output.

You can also use OBS as well. then remux the vid into mp3. I hope hat helps a bit.

On Oct 15, 2019, at 1:28 AM, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@...> wrote:



Hi

Virtual recorder can be set so you can control it using shortcut keycommands and do not have to have the interface visible.  You can record your voice and NVDA simultaneously if your machine has a microphone, so you could switchh VR on from within the web page you want to navigate then comment on what you are doing as you go.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 15 October 2019 01:46
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

 

I should add that I didn't notice that this message is on the NVDA list, so I won't get into a detailed discussion here. 

 

I will say, however, because this is NVDA related, that you may find that NVDA annoyingly reads all the Virtual Recorder controls when you first open the program and you can't stop it.  Aside frm that time wasting annoyance, NVDA works well with the program.

 

Also, I'm using a quite old version of NVDA and I'm using a modified version of the program.  You're results may differ.  But I wanted those who use the program not to think it is unusable if they see this behavior.

 

Gene. 

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene via Groups.Io

Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 7:40 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

 

If you only want to do this one time for one situation and have no general interest in recording, do you have anything like a digital recorder or a tape recorder you can use? 

 

The easiest way, using a computer program might well be a program called Virtual Recorder.  But you can't edit with the program and if you care about that, if you have something like a digital recorder, that would be easier if you know how to edit with it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Sile via Groups.Io

Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 5:58 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

 

Hello


What is the easiest way to capture the audio from NVDA - I have to send
feedback on a webpage to Google and they asked me to navigate and send
them the audio output.


Thanks,


--Sile

What is the easiest way to capture the audio from NVDA - I have to send feedback on a webpage to Google and they asked me to navigate and send them the audio output.

On Oct 15, 2019, at 1:28 AM, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@...> wrote:



Hi

Virtual recorder can be set so you can control it using shortcut keycommands and do not have to have the interface visible.  You can record your voice and NVDA simultaneously if your machine has a microphone, so you could switchh VR on from within the web page you want to navigate then comment on what you are doing as you go.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 15 October 2019 01:46
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

 

I should add that I didn't notice that this message is on the NVDA list, so I won't get into a detailed discussion here. 

 

I will say, however, because this is NVDA related, that you may find that NVDA annoyingly reads all the Virtual Recorder controls when you first open the program and you can't stop it.  Aside frm that time wasting annoyance, NVDA works well with the program.

 

Also, I'm using a quite old version of NVDA and I'm using a modified version of the program.  You're results may differ.  But I wanted those who use the program not to think it is unusable if they see this behavior.

 

Gene. 

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene via Groups.Io

Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 7:40 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

 

If you only want to do this one time for one situation and have no general interest in recording, do you have anything like a digital recorder or a tape recorder you can use? 

 

The easiest way, using a computer program might well be a program called Virtual Recorder.  But you can't edit with the program and if you care about that, if you have something like a digital recorder, that would be easier if you know how to edit with it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Sile via Groups.Io

Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 5:58 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

 

Hello


What is the easiest way to capture the audio from NVDA - I have to send
feedback on a webpage to Google and they asked me to navigate and send
them the audio output.


Thanks,


--Sile

Hello


What is the easiest way to capture the audio from NVDA - I have to send
feedback on a webpage to Google and they asked me to navigate and send
them the audio output.


Thanks,


--Sile

If the web app you are using is independent of a browser. In other word is self-contained browser like skype, Visual Code Editor and others. Then what is available to you is very restrictive. As the screen reader is fully dependent on what is revealed by this style of app via the accessibility framework like UIA, MSAA or iaccess2. If you cannot write a plugin, then you will have very limited access to available information.

If the app is usable in any browser, then you have more flexibility and there are extension based upon Javascript that permits you to modify the web page. You require knowledge in JavaScript languages to modify the page.

A general overview how web pages regardless if they are stand-alone apps or uses any web browser work:
* the web page is loaded.
* The DOM is populated (Document Object Model).
* the accessibility tree of the browser is populated which has the required information for a assistive technology product.
* The accessibility API (framework) like UIA is populated by the browser.
* the screen reader then interrogates the accessibility API or the browser directly.
There is more complexity to what I have outlined above. But this gives a general overview how information flows.


NVDA might be able to get more information but you need to learn python, the accessibility API and possibly a bunch of other API information to get the information you want. A major learning curve for yourself. Where it would be far cost effective for your energy and time to reach out to the owner of the product to make the require changes.

Sean

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Damien Garwood
Sent: Sunday, 13 October 2019 7:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

Hi Robert,
Those are actually very interesting questions. I have theories, but that's all they are. I'm sure someone who is more expert on this topic will correct me if it turns out I'm wrong, which I'm sure I probably am.
The simple answer first. Announcements for several document elements (table headers, clickable items, links, headings etc) can be enabled or disabled through the document formatting section of the settings dialog.
Other than that, the only way to really customise what is spoken by NVDA (such as changing control type text, changing spoken order etc) is through scripting.
Now for my theories. Scripting web app enhancements with NVDA wouldn't be as simple as making an app module for several reasons.
1. NVDA has its own internal stuff that allows it to do its browse/focus mode thing. This could interfere with web apps that you might think can be scripted as app modules (those packaged as executables like Skype and so on).
2. The web browser is just a host for the app, and so I'm guessing NVDA can't get to it the same way it gets to a standard desktop control. Even apps packaged as their own executables like Skype are actually using Chrome/Chromium/whatever it's called these days.
3. Bear in mind that different browsers have different rules for rendering controls and information, and so unfortunately it wouldn't be a uniform process.
Having said that. There are several accessibility API's that NVDA has, over the years, managed to smack under one umbrella. So I'm guessing that's only a matter of time before the same can be done for web browsers, and eventually, web apps.
As for profiles. My guess is that those can be used in the normal way for web apps that come as executables, but would be difficult to set up for external websites, for similar reasons. The profile would be triggered by the browser, not the app itself.
Cheers,
Damien.

On 12/10/2019 07:21 pm, Robert Logue wrote:

1: Is it difficult for users to script NVDA for web applications?


2: Is there a standard way to customize what is spoken?


3: Does NVDA have a way to set up individual profiles for each web
application?


Thanks.


Bob


On 2019-10-07 8:51 a.m., Gene wrote:

So, how do you skip all that? I don't use GMail on the Internet
except to look at the spam filter now and then. I am not familiar
with the supplied short cuts. But any time you want to jump from
message to message, typing x in browse mode takes you to the check
box for the next message. You hear, as I recall, the subject line
and the name of the sender.
But there are ways of skipping unwanted material and the fact that
they are not well known indicates poor training or poor training
materials being widely used.
The find command is one of the most useful but under or unused
feature. What is the last consistent line before the message text,
or the synopsis, begins? Find it by looking from the check box down
on more than one message. You will see a pattern.
Do a search for that line and you can then do the following:
x to move to the next message.
Repeat search, you have already searched once by entering the search
string, then down arrow once and read to end.
After you do this enough to have it become second nature, it will be
reasonably fast and efficient.
You can't be a good Internet user in more complex areas of a web page
if you rely on what I refer to as "the kindness of strangers.", as is
famously said by a character in A Street Car Named Desire.
The number of blind people, even those who are generally good
computer users, who don't know how to do what I'm describing is clear
evidence of the inadequate and poor training received.
I don't use web applications enough to discuss the general questions
presented here, but GMail isn't a web application in the sense that
Google Docx (spelling) is. It is a layout but you aren't working
with an application embedded in the page.
And you will see lots of times when doing things such as I describe
is important for efficient navigation.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Devin Prater <mailto:r.d.t.prater@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, October 07, 2019 8:44 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

On no, it says “Reply, reply all, forward…” all that, even if you use
the keyboard commands to move to the next or previous message.

On Oct 7, 2019, at 8:14 AM, Hope Williamson <hopeisjoyful@gmail.com

<mailto:hopeisjoyful@gmail.com>> wrote:

There's no reason to leave out normal header information. In other

words, the sender, date, time, and the fact that it's from you. If
it's like the IP you're referring to, then that's different.

Hi,

I figured out an easy way to edit the tags of mp3 files in windows 10. Once you turn on the details view of windows explorer, and you are on an mp3 file, you just press tab and there are edit fields, edit the tags you want, tab to save and hit enter. And go on to the next one and do the same. An mp3 tag editor is not needed unless you want to do more advanced batch editing and stuff.

Josh


Sent from my iPod

Roger, does the mp3Tag program grab the file names to put in the tags; or the other way around?  I don't think I understand what it does.

Howard

On 10/14/2019 9:19 AM, Roger Stewart wrote:

I use one that is just called mp3 Tag. Free also and works fine and accessible.

Roger

On 10/13/2019 8:29 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

Hi,

 

I found out the kid3 mp3 tag editor is free and is pretty accessible with NVDA. Do any of you know of any other free mp3 tag editors? It is the only way I can organize a folder full of files I have so they play in order from the first episode to the last episode in iTunes. Otherwise they sinc to my iPhone all out of order.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

I use one that is just called mp3 Tag. Free also and works fine and accessible.

Roger

On 10/13/2019 8:29 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

Hi,

 

I found out the kid3 mp3 tag editor is free and is pretty accessible with NVDA. Do any of you know of any other free mp3 tag editors? It is the only way I can organize a folder full of files I have so they play in order from the first episode to the last episode in iTunes. Otherwise they sinc to my iPhone all out of order.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

Hi ☺

I don’t use the touchscreen much either, but yes, the enhanced touch gestures add-on provides  additional gestures. Here’s the link where you can get the information. ☺

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/enhancedTouchGestures.en.html

Hi guys

I am not a touch screen user with NVDA but wanted to know what gestures there were for NVDA from the user manual. I think I got them all.

I was curious as well does the add on for touch gestures for nvda have more gestures there? or let you do more with touch with NVDA.

Below is a list of what I came across in the user manual while wasting some time.

Those who use touch might help if not written down all ready.

NVDA touch gestures

*Toggle touch modes

To toggle touch modes, perform a 3-finger tap.
*Stop speech
Stop speech 2-finger tap Instantly stops speaking

*NVDA menu

NVDA menu 2-finger double tap
Pops up the NVDA menu to allow you to access preferences, tools, help, etc.

*Review modes

Switch to next review mode 2-finger flick up
switches to the next available review mode

Switch to previous review mode 2-finger flick down
switches to the previous available review mode
*Object navigation

Move to containing object flick up (object mode)Moves to the object containing the current navigator object
 
move to previous object flick left (object mode)
Moves to the object before the current navigator object

move to next object flick right (object mode)
Moves to the object after the current navigator object

Move to first contained object flick down (object mode)
Moves to the first object contained by the current navigator object

*Activate current navigator object
double tap Activates the current navigator object (similar to clicking with the mouse or pressing space when it has the system focus)

*Reviewing text
 
Move to previous line in review flick up (text mode)
Moves the review cursor to the previous line of text

Move to next line in review flick down (text mode)
Move the review cursor to the next line of text

Move to previous word in review 2-finger flick left (text mode)
Moves the review cursor to the previous word in the text

Move to next word in review 2-finger flick right (text mode)
Move the review cursor to the next word in the text

Move to previous character in review flick left (text mode)
Moves the review cursor to the previous character on the current line in the text

Move to next character in review flick right (text mode)
Move the review cursor to the next character on the current line of text

Say all with review 3-finger flick down (text mode)
Reads from the current position of the review cursor, moving it as it goes