Date   

Re: Hide quoted messages?

Pete <emac00@...>
 

It's nice to have a reminder. I think quoting the message prolongs and some times side tracks the topic of the thread.


Re: Hide quoted messages

Pete <emac00@...>
 

I haven't changed the subject line as far as I know.


Re: Hide quoted messages?

Pete <emac00@...>
 

sure thing


Re: Hide quoted messages?

Gene
 

A perfect example of what happens when people don't quote previous material and don't indicate what they are talking about.  It is not possible to know what the below message is referring to nor whose message is being responded to.  Is it me?  Is it someone else that explained something? 
 
I see exactly the same problem on another list where one or two people don't quote material and don't indicate what they are referring to. 
 
If people are going to not quote previous material, they have to be aware that they must make clear what they are referring to in their messages. 
 
Perhaps since the list hasn't received one message from even one list member on a metered account approving the suggested change, that may mean that the reason given for initially making this change is not important to such users.  It may also mean that such users just haven't responded yet but it's interesting that almost twelve hours have gone by without one such response.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 9:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] Re: Hide quoted messages?

Hmmm, seems like a good explanation.



Re: Tutorial on using the Gmail Web View with NVDA

 

Hello,
Gmail does not clip messages in standard view unless you are reading the summery in the message view.
If you press enter, you need to press nvda+space to exit edit mode and then read your message. Then you need to press backspace to get back into your inbox. This is one more key command and uses the right hand when pressing shift+enter will only require you to keep the right hand by the arrow keys. It also pops you into brows mode so you don't need to do it.
Firefox has this silly bug where a window will start saying "unknown" after you have used it for a while. I would rather my email say that than the inbox.
Thanks,

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 2:01 AM, Lenron <lenron93@...> wrote:
also I am wondering if this way stops gmail from clipping your message
if its very long.

On 3/10/16, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> I don't use GMail but I listened to a little of the tutorial and, as I
> recall, the person says to use shift enter to open the message in a new
> window.  That is a good procedure and it's worth doing in a lot of other
> instances as well.  By opening the message in a new window, you can return
> to where you were before on the other page simpley by closing the Window
> with alt f4.  You won't loose your place because the other window was always
> opened and you are simply returning to it.  I use the command routinely when
> I know I want to return to a previous page and resume where I left off.  For
> example, when I'm on a newspaper page, I use the command to follow a link to
> read an article.  I can then return to the previous page by closing the new
> window and never lose my place.  I'm on the link I followed.
>
> I use it when following search results on a Google page.  I may want to look
> at numerous results and this makes it much more convenient to look at a
> result and then return to the results page.
>
> I didn't realize the importance of this procedure for quite some time after
> I started using the Internet.  the importance of it should be emphasized
> when teaching blind people to use the Internet.  it isn't.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Kakarla Nageswaraiah
> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 7:24 PM
> To: nvda@groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Tutorial on using the Gmail Web View with NVDA
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> I downloaded the mp3 version of Brandon Biggs' tutorial on NVDA with
> Gmail and I have some doubts regarding that.
>
> 1.  In what way(s) is/are the standard view better than basic html view?
>
> 2.  What's the difference between opening a mail and opening a mail in
> a new window?
>
> Thanks and regards.
>
>
> On 3/10/16, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs@...> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I use
>> https://obsproject.com/
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 7:16 AM, Supanut Leepaisomboon <
>> supanut2000@...> wrote:
>>
>>>     Hi,
>>> What program did you used to record the tutorial? If the desktop is
>>> visible, I'd assume you use a screen recording program.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> కాకర్ల నాగేశ్వరయ్య
>
> K. Nageswaraiah
>
>
>
>


--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762





Re: Tutorial on using the Gmail Web View with NVDA

William Brandes
 

hi. fyi. you can find more useful information/help on using
broadcaster on the youtube website ... william


Re: Hide quoted messages?

 

Hmmm, seems like a good explanation.



Re: Hide quoted messages?

 

I have been trying to figure out how groups.io attempts to hide quoted material in the web interface, because some do have all or some part of bottom quoted material hidden by a blue bar with an ellipsis in it (very much like the notation used by Gmail).   It appears that it is built to trigger the hiding on the line often used at the start of quoted messages that reads, "On <insert date here> <author name> wrote:" or "Original Message."  When one of these two things preface the quoted message it does a really good job of hiding the entire message.  If it finds, "From" without either of the previous lines it seems to hide the header block of "From" through "Subject" only but displays the quoted message body.

My guess based on analyzing what gets hidden currently versus what doesn't is that a "least aggressive hiding" approach is being used for bottom-quoted material when a couple of trigger phrases are not seen that typically get generated by e-mail programs/interfaces themselves.  Perhaps a "most aggressive hiding" strategy where anything that would occur subsequent to, "On <date> <author> wrote:," "Original Message," or "From" [when it's encountered the second time in a message] might achieve full hiding of all quoted material.  (Talk about programming minutiae!!  It is, however, on topic).

Brian


Java Access Bridge

Chris Mullins
 

hi

This is what to look out for when Java access bridge doesn’t install properly.

 

This is an excerpt from my NVDA Log (logging level set to Info) after the WindowsAccessBridge-32.dll was not installed in my Windows\SysWow64 folder after I ran the Java 8 version 73 update.

 

display driver noBraille, current display has 0 cells.

INFO - brailleInput.initialize (11:07:42):

Braille input initialized

WARNING - core.main (11:07:42):

Java Access Bridge not available

INFO - core.main (11:08:00):

NVDA initialized

 

 

I re-ran the Java update and it worked the second time.

 

Loaded braille display driver noBraille, current display has 0 cells.

INFO - brailleInput.initialize (13:32:07):

Braille input initialized

INFO - core.main (13:32:08):

NVDA initialized

 

 

Cheers

Chris

 

My chris.mullins4@... address will soon be closed

Please substitute this new address in your contacts list

 


Re: Hide quoted messages?

Gene
 

I suspect that efficient Internet navigation techniques would solve the problem.  My guess, and I haven't looked specifically, is that the word subject appears in every quoted message.  As I recall, the word subject is shown along with the subject line.  Thus, using the find command on the web page and searching for the word subject, you could jump from quoted message to quoted message. 
 
Did you see my message about the excerpt of my Internet tutorial I have made available?  This is just the kind of situation I attempt to prepare users for.  I stress, repeatedly, how using logic and inference can allow people to figure out ways to easily navigate web pages that have no predefined structures intended to help with navigation. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 5:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] Re: Hide quoted messages?

Well, of course if people send messages using email clients/email services, the quoted messages would be there, but if a feature could be implemented in groups.io where a user could choose to hide quoted messages. Or, at least groups.io should convert the subject of each messages in a thread when viewed online to heading levels, thereby making navigation easier as one could use the h key to jump to the next message without arrowing down through long quoted messages.


Re: Hide quoted messages?

 

Well, of course if people send messages using email clients/email services, the quoted messages would be there, but if a feature could be implemented in groups.io where a user could choose to hide quoted messages. Or, at least groups.io should convert the subject of each messages in a thread when viewed online to heading levels, thereby making navigation easier as one could use the h key to jump to the next message without arrowing down through long quoted messages.


Re: Antivirus

Kevin Cussick
 

just use google that is what I did not really wanting to look around sorry. if someone else has the time fare enough.

On 10/03/2016 23:26, Hank Smith, and Seeing-eye dog Iona wrote:
can I get the link to that download of the antivirus program?


On 3/7/2016 5:33 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.io wrote:
I am using sophus and after a bit of a shaky start I now have it on 3
of my many computers and it is Ok seems to be fully accessible. I
admit I have not looked around to see what the ratings are like but I
might now that I have thought about it.

On 07/03/2016 12:11, Gene wrote:
There are other e-mail programs with much better ratings that are
reasonably accessible and don't slow things down. Knowledgeable
people differ on whether Windows Defender is adequate and people
should read about the subject. When Kim Komando recommends that
people use something else and Ars Technica (spelling) does as well,
that in my opinion, is cause for serious consideration.

With reasonable care, Windows Defender may be alright but it has poor
detection rates compared with many programs.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 2:12 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus


Well, all anti virus programs tend to have one weakness, even if
that is
that you cannot actually use it with a screenreader or it slows down
stuff.

I have to say that msse/defender is maybe not as featured as many, but
unless you are the sort of person who goes recklessly clicking dodgy
links
in phishing emails or web sites, thus far checks with other products
on my
machines have not revealed anything very malicious. The pundits
always have
their favourites, and certainly do not have the added issues of
accessibility, but we have to live in the world as it is, as I'm
constantly
reminded, so compromise is often what one ends up with.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus


As has been repeatedly discussed here, it's not a question of how
accessible
the program is. Many advisors say that it is better to use something
else
because it isn't as good at detecting malware as they think it should
be.

It seems to me that this program is contraversial enough that when
people
ask about it, those who discuss it should say that there is a
contraversy,
and what it is. I believe that those considering using the program
should
be encouraged to look into the contraversy.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Arlene
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 9:52 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus


Yes, I hear it works well for 8 and 10.



From: Rosemarie Chavarria [mailto:knitqueen2007@gmail.com]
Sent: March-06-16 4:41 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus



Hi, Nut,

I'm using windows defender and it's working great for me.

Rosemarie




On 3/6/2016 3:39 AM, Supanut Leepaisomboon wrote:

Hi all,

I'm thinking of upgrading to Windows 10, probably during my summer
holiday
of this year, and I'm wondering, will Windows Defender be good enough? I
have Sandboxie and VMware installed (anything I think is suspicious I
either
run them in Sandboxie or VMware). I'm giving Nod32 a particular
attention as
I do have access to a licensed copy through my university.

If Windows Defender is not good enough, is Nod32 (any version)
accessible
with NVDA? In terms of being able to read and properly interact with
alert
dialogs and settings windows.










Re: Tutorial on using the Gmail Web View with NVDA

Lenron
 

also I am wondering if this way stops gmail from clipping your message
if its very long.

On 3/10/16, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
I don't use GMail but I listened to a little of the tutorial and, as I
recall, the person says to use shift enter to open the message in a new
window. That is a good procedure and it's worth doing in a lot of other
instances as well. By opening the message in a new window, you can return
to where you were before on the other page simpley by closing the Window
with alt f4. You won't loose your place because the other window was always
opened and you are simply returning to it. I use the command routinely when
I know I want to return to a previous page and resume where I left off. For
example, when I'm on a newspaper page, I use the command to follow a link to
read an article. I can then return to the previous page by closing the new
window and never lose my place. I'm on the link I followed.

I use it when following search results on a Google page. I may want to look
at numerous results and this makes it much more convenient to look at a
result and then return to the results page.

I didn't realize the importance of this procedure for quite some time after
I started using the Internet. the importance of it should be emphasized
when teaching blind people to use the Internet. it isn't.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Kakarla Nageswaraiah
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 7:24 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Tutorial on using the Gmail Web View with NVDA


Dear all,

I downloaded the mp3 version of Brandon Biggs' tutorial on NVDA with
Gmail and I have some doubts regarding that.

1. In what way(s) is/are the standard view better than basic html view?

2. What's the difference between opening a mail and opening a mail in
a new window?

Thanks and regards.


On 3/10/16, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
I use
https://obsproject.com/
Thanks,


Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 7:16 AM, Supanut Leepaisomboon <
supanut2000@outlook.com> wrote:

Hi,
What program did you used to record the tutorial? If the desktop is
visible, I'd assume you use a screen recording program.




--
కాకర్ల నాగేశ్వరయ్య

K. Nageswaraiah



--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762


Re: Hide quoted messages?

Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

I'd suggest most people here are using email clients not web based systems. As we tend to top post then one only needs to read down as far as one needs to remind us of the thread debate.
I don't know how one might handle removing quoted messages on the web site as obviously there needs to be some character or group thereof that the web based system can act on.
If it were all completely web based this would be relatively easy by using different fields for things, ie the quotes would be henld in a different store. As long as you allow email though you lose this.
WE could all set our clients to not quote messages in replies and forwards, but then, I know from experience we get complaints the other way around for those not coming here often not getting up to speed if the messages have expired.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Supanut Leepaisomboon" <supanut2000@outlook.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 5:26 AM
Subject: [nvda] Re: Hide quoted messages?


Nowadays, when replying to threads on this list I used the web interface, which avoided the possibility of accidentally inserting quoted messages.

What I've been seeing is that, not only were the bottom of each messages contain quoted messages in full, but from time-to-time those quoted messages also contain quoted messages, once again in full. This makes navigating through threads really annoying. I know that when replying to a message, it's good to quote the message in question, but there has to be an option to hide it, either in the user settings page or on the thread display page.

Alternatively, the quoting of messages can be avoided entirely if there is a threaded system of replies, I.E when I reply to a message my reply would appear as another level under the original messages, of course with the option to either expand or collapse the replys.


Re: Thunderbird saying unknown

christopher hallsworth <challsworth2@...>
 

Hi it is a calendar add-on to Thunderbird similar to the calendar feature in Outlook.

On 11 Mar 2016, at 02:39, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@gmail.com> wrote:

What is lightning and what does it do?



On 3/10/2016 6:19 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Yes I have turned off lightning, is lightning any good as such?



On 11/03/2016 3:14 p.m., Tyler Spivey wrote:
IIRC, Thunderbird comes with Lightning. Turn it off in the addons.
On 3/10/2016 6:13 PM, Bhavya shah wrote:
Hi,
I too recently installed Mozilla Thunderbird and have been
experimenting with it since yesterday.
Thanks for bring this topic up, Brandon, and for the various tips by others.
Some more occurences of 'unknown' in Thunderbird are when you tab
around the main screen or page of Thunderbird, where two or three
unknowns appear subsequently in tab order, before the event related
buttons.
I also must disable whatever I can and see if Thunderbird actually
increases my efficiency or productivity in any way as opposed to my
web Basic HTML interface of GMail, which I may eventually transition
from to the Standard View.
Thanks.

On 3/11/16, Pete <emac00@cogeco.ca> wrote:

Hi
two more things, I do is uncheck Thunderbird options general Thunderbird
start page and I select in composition advanced open messages in a new
window radio button.

Pete










Re: Hide quoted messages

Gene
 

I'm not trying to give you a hard time but why are you starting a new thread when the topic is still the same?  The subject line does not have to change every time you respond.  The subject line is a general indicator of what a thread is about.  If the thread changes so that it has no relevance to the old subject line, then changing it makes sense.  It makes no sense to change a subject line because you are discussing only one aspect of a thread that is related to the general topic.  You start a completely new thread every time you do this. 
 
In addition, I don't know how much it costs for people who pay per use to receive a lot of quoted material.  The cost is one thing to consider.  There are other considerations.  For example, when I look in archives of lists, even though a lot of people don't use archives, I often find it convenient to see quoted messages.  It saves me the trouble of looking through different messages in the thread to see a lot of messages in one string.  Also, if many list members are like me, we receive a lot of mail and it is often very convenient to receive mail with quoted material in case we want to review something we might not remember clearly that occurred earlier in the thread. 
 
If a lot of quoted material does pose a financial problem, I'll consider quoting much more selectively.  I used to not include quoted material but I got complaints on another list that I should include some quoted material. 
 
Gene

From: Pete
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Hide quoted messages?


   Hi
In Thunderbird to not quote the message you are replying to go to
   tools menu
   account settings
   composition and addressing
   uncheck the automatically quote the original message when replying
check box
   Pete




Re: Hide quoted messages?

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Thank you.

On 3/10/2016 9:29 PM, Pete wrote:

Hi
In Thunderbird to not quote the message you are replying to go to
tools menu
account settings
composition and addressing
uncheck the automatically quote the original message when replying check box
Pete



Re: Hide quoted messages?

Pete <emac00@...>
 

Hi
In Thunderbird to not quote the message you are replying to go to
tools menu
account settings
composition and addressing
uncheck the automatically quote the original message when replying check box
Pete


Re: Hide quoted messages?

 

Nowadays, when replying to threads on this list I used the web interface, which avoided the possibility of accidentally inserting quoted messages.

What I've been seeing is that, not only were the bottom of each messages contain quoted messages in full, but from time-to-time those quoted messages also contain quoted messages, once again in full. This makes navigating through threads really annoying. I know that when replying to a message, it's good to quote the message in question, but there has to be an option to hide it, either in the user settings page or on the thread display page.

Alternatively, the quoting of messages can be avoided entirely if there is a threaded system of replies, I.E when I reply to a message my reply would appear as another level under the original messages, of course with the option to either expand or collapse the replys.


Re: Antivirus

slery <slerythema@...>
 

Hey, thanks for the information. The home version lets you install on 10 computers for personal use for free. It’s late so I haven’t installed just yet.

 

Cindy

 

From: Supanut Leepaisomboon [mailto:supanut2000@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:25 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Re: Antivirus

 

Hi,

I just gave Sophos Home Cloud Antivirus a try, and I must say, it's reasonably accessible with NVDA, from what I tried in a virtual machine (although it lags, but that's normal for a virtual machine). It's web-based control panel, too, is accessible (at least with Jaws). As Sophos is a company that makes cloud protection sollution for businesses, I would expect the home edition of its cloud antivirus to be equally good, in terms of the level of protection.

P.S I've given up on Nod32, after learning from one of my university staff that I can only update it when my computer is connected to the campus's wi-fi network, which is impossible for my desktop computer at home.