From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 3:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period

On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 04:28 PM, Gene wrote:

Whether and for how long it is supported, I suspect that Windows 7 is enough like Windows 10 that add-ons and NVDA will continue to work, at least for quite a while.

I agree.  But the time will come, probably later rather than sooner, when a necessary change to NVDA or a given add-on breaks backward compatibility with Windows 7 as a direct effect.   And depending on when that happens to occur it could be very difficult to try to justify jumping through any hoops for maintaining backward compatibility.  This pattern has occurred over and over again over the decades.

To quote the song lyric, "History keeps repeating itself."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

On Mar 23, 2020, at 3:32 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 04:24 PM, Jesse Farquharson wrote:

an opensource program, means that you can have someone who is qualified come in to externally audit the software and say, "yes, this program is absolutely safe," if you are inclined to do so.

Yep, and not just for NVDA.  It seems that slowly, but surely, many IT professionals are getting "the powers that be" to recognize this.  There is far less resistance to open source software in the business market than there once was.  But since that resistance started out as absolute, it's still nowhere close to the degree of acceptance that should prevail.

That being said, there are many ways that current security suites use to analyze closed source code to see if it's been compromised.  There is good reason, very good reason, to believe that commercial software makers are not going to rob their customers (of passwords or cash, anyway - data is another matter altogether).  
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

This might not be specifically relevant to usage with NVDA, but, it's specifically accessible:

https://www.webbie.org.uk/accessiblepodcatcher/


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"...resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2020-03-22 11:30 PM, Andrea Sherry wrote:

Is there a program works well with NVDA 20193.1 and Windows 10?

Hi Gene


This is Isaac the developer of both SpeakOn and SpeechHub


Yes, I developed both add-ons for SpeakOn and SpeechHub for the latest NVDA version 2019.3.1

I operate both here on my computer and a couple of testers found no problem with these.

I want to do a bit more testing, as you have tested for me before both SpeechHub and SpeakOn you are welcome to write to me off list and I shall let you know how to obtain these add-ons for testing.


Regards

Isaac




On 22/03/2020 20:26, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:

Hi


Do you know if he is going to update the speech hub add on? so it works with nvda 2019.3


When I tried it  the last version was nvda 2019.2.1 I think it was I would have to check.


Gene nz


On 23/03/2020 8:01 am, David Griffith wrote:

Speak On supports Daisy through its Audio Books app but I don’t know about XML 5 but if somebody sent me a sample I could try it and see.

Speak On is self-voicing much like Kurzweil so you would not use a Screenreader with it as it is controlled just as if you were using a screenreader.

Isaac told me that he has updated the NVDA and Speech Player addons to be compatible with the latest version of NVDA but I don’t think they have been published yet.

As I understand it the NVDA addon simply mutes NVDA whilst Speak On is in Focus

David Griffith

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *john s
*Sent:* 22 March 2020 18:23
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Q Read alternative

David, the NFB content is Daisy, which xml files.

Can my screen reader be used in this program?

At 12:10 PM 3/22/2020, David Griffith, wrote:


    Speak On was developed in the UK so the only direct connections it
    has to download is content from the RNIB eText and Audio Newsagent
    service and it also connects directly to TuneIn Radio if you have
    an  account with them.
    However it does have a “Virtual Readerâ€�function which
    interacts with the automatic eText digital content generated by
    for Newspapers and Magazines in the UK which makes for a more
    pleasant reading experience.
    If Newsline produces material in ePub2 format then it may be worth
    importing the content into Speak On and try reading it with the
    RNIB eText Newsagent app anyway to see if this provides a good
    experience.
    If you wanted to do this you would need to first of all add the
    RNIB eText app from the add plugins section of the Tools menu and
    then place your Newsline content, assuming it is epPub2 Â into Â
    the Current Reading directory under the RNIB etect directory under
    My Speak On media folder.

    Of course you can also read the ePub also using Speak On’s eBook
    function – oone of the worst decisions Isaac took was to name this
    app Text Publications which disguises it utility as an eBook reader.

    David Griffith

    So it cannot, as far as I am aware connect
    Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
    for Windows 10

    *From: *john s <mailto:jschwery@...>
    *Sent: *22 March 2020 14:59
    *To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
    *Subject: *Re: [nvda] Q Read alternative

    David, does  speak on handle NFB Newsline content?

    Also, can the program use my screen reader?

    At 09:56 AM 3/22/2020, David Griffith, wrote:

    OK

    My actual Podcasts on Speak On are being distributed by Talking
    Computers on a monthly basis and will appear on the Speak On
    website a month later but you can find all the recordings below on
    SendSpace links which will hopefully not be an issue. If there is
    an issue then I will try and put them also on Open  drive.

    The main Speak On app is being continuously maintained by Isaac
    the Program developer though he has no intentions to do major
    revisions of the app.

    The series is not complete as there will be further Podcasts on
    the RNIB Daisy magazine Service, using the Podcasts app and the
    Music app to follow.

    I actually intend to replace and re-record the eBook Podcasts as
    half - way through the volume increases which is a little
    distracting.

    Speak On Resources

    You can download Speak On media Suite from

    http://www.speakon.org.uk/SpeakOn.html

    Speak On Media Podcast

    01 Introduction Speak on Media Suite.mp3

    This Podcast covers setting up Speak On Media, changing the
    default synthesiser to a more friendly voice and introduces you to
    the range of apps available

    by default, and then the further apps available through additional
    optional plugins.

    https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/otzppu

    02 Getting an Audio Books into Speak On Media Suite.mp3

    This Podcast describes how shortcuts and the send to menu in File
    Explorer can be utilised to make it much easier to import books
    and other content into

    Speak On Media.

    https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/v7dhkt

    03 Playing Daisy and Audio Books in Speak On.mp3

    This Podcast covers loading and reading of Daisy and Audio Books.
    It explains Speak On navigation options, bookmarking, and varying
    the speed and volume

    of playback. It also introduces Speak On’s context sensitive
    help feature.

    https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/ye758q

    04 Reading eBooks on Speak On

    This covers.

    -Loading an eBook into the Speak On Directory through the Send To
    Menu.

    -changing the Reading Voice.

    - Navigation levels available in the eBook.

    - Managing Bookmarks and getting book size information.

    -Tabbing through the Player Bookmark list and Library view.

    - Adjusting the speed and volume of book playback on the fly.

    - Copying and pasting text from an eBook into Notepad.

    - Saving Sections of the book as text files.

    - Creating a "virtual eBook" based upon a search term.

    https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/akbva2

    05 Speak On and Internet Radio

    This Podcast covers

    - Using a free or paid Tunein account to access Radio in Speak On.

    - Using the optional VI Radio app.

    - Importing Radio Streams into the Other Media app to create a 3rd
    Customised Internet Radio app.

    https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/sgqix8

    Link to a Radio Streams folder to import into Speak On.

    https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/p7xu1m

    06 Using Speak On and the RNIB Reading Service.

    This Podcasts covers downloading a daisy Book from the new RNIB
    Reading Service and playing it in Speak On.

    https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/j006ie

    07 Speak On and the RNIB Newsagent Service Part 1 - Newspapers.

    This Podcasts covers.

    1. Advantages of using Speak On to easily access the eText
    Newspaper service, including its Virtual Reader function to
    streamline reading.

    Installing the task and logging into the eText service.

    Loading of Newspapers, navigation and adjustment of speed and
    volume of playback.

    Setting up favourite papers.

    Bookmarking and extracting articles into text files.

    https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/d40tj7

    08 Speak On and the RNIB magazine Service

    As unfortunately the RNIB have broken links to some of the
    Magazines and not updated information to Speak ON, there is a need
    in some cases to download

    and import Magazines manually . This Podcasts describes this
    workaround and explains why you would still want to use Speak On
    to read your magazines in

    this use case.

    https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/jsp0da

    From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
    <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
    David Griffith via Groups.Io

    Sent: 22 March 2020 13:41

    To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

    Subject: Re: [nvda] Q Read alternative

    It is  not a media player rather than a book reader but both and a
    lot lot more.

    I will send a list of my Podcasts on it in a minute,

    David Griffith

    Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
    for Windows 10

    From: Robert Kingett <mailto:@blindjourno>

    Sent: 22 March 2020 01:44

    To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

    Subject: Re: [nvda] Q Read alternative

    The only thing I could find about speak on is the below website?
    The last update was 2016. Is there a newer version I'm missing? It
    seems like it's a media player rather than a book reader so if
    anybody has an updated link, put it in the thread.

    http://www.speakon.org.uk/SpeakOn.html

                     John

                     John

Hllo guys,
Is something like book warm and speak on is available for android?

--
Regards,
Sociohack

Hello guys . I do agree with everybody about what they're saying. However, I
am going to point something out to you, and that is, as a 6 year adaptive
tech trainer who has trained blind students in screen readers, I have to say
that there are folks out there that won't give up there screen reader too
easily. As an example, I do have friends out there that know that NVDA
exists, and so on and so forth, but a lot of them think that if something is
cheaper, it is inferior. I'll give you an example. I do have a friend in
California who has heard of NVDA, and her blind friends know that NVDA
exists, and they have tried it but they end up going back to JAWS because
its what they know. Also Many of the institutions that I've come across have
never heard of NVDA, or if they have heard of it, they assume that it is
incomplete or inferior because they have seem more than one person use JAWS
and iPhones so they think, all blind folks use, are JAWS screen reader, and
iPhones. Which, as you and I know, is not true. As, while JAWS and iPhone's
are certainly used, not everybody uses, or cannot afford, either JAWS, or
iPhone. Another example is that I have a relative that works at a
university, and they use JAWS and I bet if they have heard of NVDA they
would be reluctant to try it because they would, once again, assume it is
incomplete, and inferior. Sadly, there is no support for NVDA in the school
districts that I am aware of where I am. I am certainly in favor of client
choice and I am in favor of cheaper stuff but at the moment its going to be
real tough to get organisations to realize that NVDA even exists let alone
trying it out.

Hello guys . I do agree with everybody about what they're saying. However, I

am going to point something out to you, and that is, as a 6 year adaptive

tech trainer who has trained blind students in screen readers, I have to say

that there are folks out there that won't give up there screen reader too

easily. As an example, I do have friends out there that know that NVDA

exists, and so on and so forth, but a lot of them think that if something is

cheaper, it is inferior. I'll give you an example. I do have a friend in

California who has heard of NVDA, and her blind friends know that NVDA

exists, and they have tried it but they end up going back to JAWS because

its what they know. Also Many of the institutions that I've come across have

never heard of NVDA, or if they have heard of it, they assume that it is

incomplete or inferior because they have seem more than one person use JAWS

and iPhones so they think, all blind folks use, are JAWS screen reader, and

iPhones. Which, as you and I know, is not true. As, while JAWS and iPhone's

are certainly used, not everybody uses, or cannot afford, either JAWS, or

iPhone. Another example is that I have a relative that works at a

university, and they use JAWS and I bet if they have heard of NVDA they

would be reluctant to try it because they would, once again, assume it is

incomplete, and inferior. Sadly,  there is no support for NVDA in the school

districts that I am aware of where I am. I am certainly in favor of client

choice and I am in favor of cheaper stuff but at the moment its going to be

real tough to get organisations to realize that NVDA even exists let alone

trying it out.

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Correct! I totally get your point and I agree with you 100%.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 11:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Free JAWS licence that was anounced today



On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 02:02 PM, Sky Mundell wrote:

I am certainly in favor of client
choice and I am in favor of cheaper stuff but at the moment its going to be
real tough to get organisations to realize that NVDA even exists let alone
trying it out.

And having slogged that road I can say you're correct. That being said,
it's only if we keep beating the NVDA-option drum that it will ever make
inroads in both commercial and academic environments to a much greater
extent than it already has.

JAWS being the "granddaddy of all screen readers" means that it has a
massively huge head start. But I think Vispero sees the writing on the
wall, as both NVDA and Narrator are both strong competitors, and will only
keep becoming stronger ones. I believe that's why the whole new
subscription licensing came into existence. People are now balking at what
had historically been asked as far as price for JAWS.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

~ Madonna

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 11:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 02:02 PM, Sky Mundell wrote:

I am certainly in favor of client
choice and I am in favor of cheaper stuff but at the moment its going to be
real tough to get organisations to realize that NVDA even exists let alone
trying it out.

And having slogged that road I can say you're correct.  That being said, it's only if we keep beating the NVDA-option drum that it will ever make inroads in both commercial and academic environments to a much greater extent than it already has.

JAWS being the "granddaddy of all screen readers" means that it has a massively huge head start.  But I think Vispero sees the writing on the wall, as both NVDA and Narrator are both strong competitors, and will only keep becoming stronger ones.  I believe that's why the whole new subscription licensing came into existence.  People are now balking at what had historically been asked as far as price for JAWS.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

Hi,

The exact statements from NV Access and developers back then were that using
XP is now a security risk for many, and that people can use NVDA 2017.3 and
old add-ons should they need to use XP and friends. As for my statement back
then, it referred to my own add-ons. The statement I wrote below covers
cases where a user would write to developers asking us to make certain new
features available for old releases, which cannot be done, particularly now
that we have fully moved onto Python 3.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arlene
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 10:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and
Windows XP support requests: no more, period



Hi, I don’t remember the time you and NVDA developers did say xp support was
no longer going to work for users who still want to continue using xp. You
did say maybe 2 or 3 years ago you were going to no longer support xp and
vista. I think windows 7 is next.



Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
10



From: Joseph Lee <mailto:@joslee>
Sent: March 22, 2020 3:01 PM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows
XP support requests: no more, period



Hello NVDA users and add-on developers,



First, I would like to reiterate how important it is that everyone listen to
advice from reputable sources regarding COVID-19, including public health
officials recommending folks to exercise social distancing for a while. Even
if you do not feel sick, please help others by washing hands, practice
social distancing, and monitor the situation regarding the pandemic and
community spread. And since the NVDA community is a global movement, please
support each other.



Onto the matter at hand: for several days I have received requests about
NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support. Requests have included making add-ons
compatible with Windows XP again, compatibility issues, and backporting
newer NVDA bug fixes and features to users of NVDA 2017.3, the last version
compatible with Windows XP.



At the moment there is no community guidance on support for Windows XP, with
many people asking others to upgrade to newer Windows releases. But as an
individual add-on author and a contributor to NVDA screen reader project, I
would like to take this time to make the following personal announcement:



Effective April 15, 2020, if you ask me to do one or more of the following
for Windows XP users, the answer you will get is, “sorry, no more, period.”
These include:



* Making add-ons compatible with Windows XP, Server 2003, Vista, and Server
2008
* Fixing compatibility issues and non-working add-ons after you knowingly
install newer add-on releases on NVDA 2017.3 or earlier
* Backporting features and bug fixes from newer NVDA releases to NVDA
2017.3
* Maintaining a long-term support version of NVDA for Windows XP/Server
2003/Vista/Server 2008 users



Most importantly, I will flatly say “no” if you ask me privately to ask NV
Access and/or add-on developers about Windows XP support. Many features
introduced in newer NVDA releases cannot be backported for various reasons,
including risk of crashing NVDA (grammar error announcement, for example),
incompatibility with Python 2 (broader Unicode support, for example),
features that will not work properly with XP (screen curtain, for example),
support for apps no longer recommended for wider use (outlook Express, for
example), and broad changes that alters how add-ons work (speech refactor
and multi-category settings dialog, for example). Several add-on authors
have indicated reluctance to support XP, and in case of add-ons I’m either
maintaining or have passed onto the community, none of them support NVDA
2019.2.1 or earlier, let alone Windows XP and friends.



My personal statement above will not be in effect until April so that you
can help others going through COVID-19 and for my statement as an individual
developer to sink in. Note that I’m not speaking on behalf of other
developers – others have their own policies regarding support for Windows
XP. NV Access does provide a download link for NVDA 2017.3, the last version
compatible with Windows XP.



I know my statement is a huge blow to many of you. As much as I wanted folks
to understand that end of support means end of support, and I understand
that many of you cannot afford newer equipment and software releases
(including moving to newer Windows releases), I felt it is time to make a
bold statement and say “no” to Windows XP support. In the past, I did note
on various NVDA forums that my add-ons will not and does not support Windows
XP, but didn’t announce a statement like this then, hoping that folks will
understand the reality at last. But alas, it is time to officially close the
doors to Windows XP support from my end – once again, this is an individual
developer saying this, not on behalf of the community at large, knowing that
others will make statements on their own.



Thank you for understanding.

Cheers,

Joseph