Date   

locked Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

Richard Bartholomew
 

Hi,

 

Without wishing to sound too glib…choice is the reason why this is desirable.  For example, I prefer cursoring down a mail as it gives me more control over skipping bits I don’t want to hear, eg URLs, rather than wasting time listening to it all!

 

Cheers

Richard Bartholomew

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: 10 May 2020 19:26
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

No, there is no way. I’m wondering why you ask for it. Purpose of opening a mail is to read it….at least for me.

But feel free to log an issue with NVDA.

 

Cheers,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 18:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

Is there anyway to prevent this?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

Yup, that’s normal that it reads the first line.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 12:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

That is unchecked in outlook 2016 it still reads the first line.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 6:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

NVDA-Control-B, Alt-S, uncheck it.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 01:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

Hi, is there a way to prevent NVDA from automatically reading an outlook message when you open it?  If so how?


Re: did this site change over night?

Sarah k Alawami
 

And the pot (I mean plot) thickens. Now I remember why I had trouble contacting them. I forgot that they don't actually have a tech support area. In fact it says on their contact page

"This link is for sales related support ONLY! For technical related support you must contact the support of your product directly, you can find the address listed in the respective product page." Not going to work if I'm having trouble with their website. I just sent something to their sales team and I know they will complain at me, but the good thing is this. I did link them to NVDa, again, so we'll see if they can nudge the right people, again.

Thanks., and let's hope I do not have to ask for help about this for a long long time to come. Let's just hope that somethingn good happens.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 9 May 2020, at 13:07, Brian Vogel wrote:

Yes, it did, and the idiots that redid the site used an unlabeled button, with the icon of an abstract person's head and shoulders, as the account button.  What's even weirder is that once I click on it, and expand it, I can't seem to enter in to the expanded fields, which include where you enter your e-mail address and password.

I remember playing with this site not long ago when you were asking about it then, and I know that button was a text button labeled, "Account."

Just FYI, if I start using the b shortcut, it's the second button.  The first reads "clickable button" and is the search button.  The second, which reads simply "button" is the account button.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: Thunderbird 68.8.0: Unwanted Verbosity Is Improved But Not Fixed

David Goldfield
 

I did remember to mention it in the bug which I just filed in Bugzilla.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 5/10/2020 9:12 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi David,

I do get all three of these issues, but they are of minor concern to me.  The one thing you didn't mention is the reading of the underlying address when you tab to or arrow to a clickable link in an open message.  This is really annoying to me and happens one hundred percent of the time.


On 5/10/2020 3:27 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Hello.

The release notes for TB 68.8.0 indicates that the extra messages heard by screen readers has been addressed. While the situation may have improved I don't believe that this issue has been totally addressed.

1. When pressing enter to open a message NVDA begins to announce something which sounds like "loading message" but the announcement is usually cut off fairly quickly. I suspect that this could be happening more on slower machines.

2. When a message that I am composing is being automatically saved to my drafts folder the status message indicating this is clearly being announced, as in "copying message to drafts folder." Should this be happening?

3. When I press ctrl-enter to send a message I sometimes hear the beginning of a status announcement but it gets cut off very quickly and I'm not able to determine what it's trying to tell me. I guess I should load the speech viewer to better capture some of what is being announced but I don't recall hearing any of this information prior to this problem initially being introduced.




Re: Thunderbird 68.8.0: Unwanted Verbosity Is Improved But Not Fixed

Brian Moore
 

The other thing which gets announced regardless of status bar state is imap syncing such as "downloading message 6 of 14 in spam" etc. Because I have 4 email accounts, these imap syncing announcements are frequent and interrupt work regularly.

This is new as of version 68.  Not sure if I should add to David's bug or file a separate one because it is basically the same issue.

Brian.

Contact me on skype: brian.moore
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123
On 5/10/2020 2:52 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 02:42 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
Does a sighted person see some kind of indication that this is happening?
If said content is coming from the status bar, then yes, at least provided the status bar is set to be viewed, and it is by default.

The difference being that most of us couldn't give a flying rat's patootie that this is happening, and would never even notice it.  This is one of the difficulties with accessibility in that, for things like the status bar, it tends to be an "all or nothing" affair within a given class of message.  If this is bothersome, requesting that the "copying message to drafts folder" be put in a class below that which would be seen by the screen reader is what would get rid of it.  I don't know exactly how that's done, but the developers do, as the screen reader does not read each and every thing that occurs in the status bar.

This would be a feature request as opposed to a bug report, or at least I'd consider it a feature change, as one could argue that either state is better than the other, depending on one's personal preferences.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: Thunderbird 68.8.0: Unwanted Verbosity Is Improved But Not Fixed

David Goldfield
 

I have filed a bug in Bugzilla. Please feel free to add to this if I have missed anything.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 5/10/2020 2:49 PM, Robert Kingett wrote:

Here's the direct link to filing a TB bug. The developers are not on this list.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Thunderbird


Re: did this site change over night?

Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually these guys are just resellers of a lot of products. Bu tyeah I'm willing to try one more time.

Take care

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 10 May 2020, at 12:35, Brian Vogel wrote:

Sarah,

            I know what you mean.  But, where money is involved and there are sales to be lost, sometimes a nudge is all it takes.  There's very little point in not extending minimal effort (and labeling buttons is about as minimal as it comes) to retain even a small market segment.  And using the, "I can't buy from you since this change," angle is well worth doing.  If they won't make things accessible on principle, they may if losing money is involved.   And, in the end, the underlying motivation is not relevant, the end result is.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: did this site change over night?

 

Sarah,

            I know what you mean.  But, where money is involved and there are sales to be lost, sometimes a nudge is all it takes.  There's very little point in not extending minimal effort (and labeling buttons is about as minimal as it comes) to retain even a small market segment.  And using the, "I can't buy from you since this change," angle is well worth doing.  If they won't make things accessible on principle, they may if losing money is involved.   And, in the end, the underlying motivation is not relevant, the end result is.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: did this site change over night?

Sarah k Alawami
 

I have contacted them in the past, but you can probably guess where that went. Many of these developers in this community of flight simulation really don't care and just want the money, and some have secondary jobs, so if they lose out or go broke it doesn't matter to them. Some are willing to help but most are not. I will try again with these guys.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 10 May 2020, at 11:02, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 01:54 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I'm not happy that they changed the site
And I hope you've written to their support expressing this displeasure (as well as telling them that they need to include labels on all buttons, whether said labels are presented visually or not).

I instantly understood what's going on, as the convention they used is, well, a common convention.  It's what they omitted in terms of making that common convention accessible, which is usually part and parcel of it, that's really inexcusable in this day and age.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: Thunderbird 68.8.0: Unwanted Verbosity Is Improved But Not Fixed

 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 02:56 PM, Ali Savas wrote:
Maybe the developers of NVDA can do something about the verbosity.
And this is true.  However, just as Mr. Kingett suggested filing a bug report with Mozilla, the same applies as far as NVDA, but using the GitHub system:

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues

New Issue button (after, of course, having searched to see if the issue you're about to report may have been reported already by someone else, in which case you could enter a comment to it).

While making posts to these lists is entirely appropriate as an awareness-raising mechanism for the membership, it is not appropriate if you want to have those who are capable of fixing something know that there's a problem to begin with.  That requires bug reporting, no matter the software involved.  In a case like this, it likely requires two bug reports, as it is unclear what needs to be changed.  And the fact that JAWS does one thing while NVDA does another is no guarantee that NVDA is "wrong" and JAWS is "right."  There are all sorts of subtle differences in behavior based on both intentional action and different decisions being made about "what's best."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: Thunderbird 68.8.0: Unwanted Verbosity Is Improved But Not Fixed

 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 02:49 PM, Robert Kingett wrote:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Thunderbird
And just to clarify my last statement, as Bugzilla and GitHub behave slightly differently, you do go through the bug reporting mechanism under Bugzilla to file a feature request as well as a bug.

For a true bug, the radio button, This is a defect report, is selected while for a feature request the radio button, This is a request for enhancement, is selected instead.

If you pick "the wrong one" in the eyes of the folks at Mozilla, it will end up being recategorized by them.  But if you know you're making a feature request from the outset, it makes sense to identify it as such.  There are times (like this one) where one could argue that the line is far from perfectly clear.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: Thunderbird 68.8.0: Unwanted Verbosity Is Improved But Not Fixed

Ali Savas
 

Hi,

the problem here is that the verbosity under Thunderbird with JAWS is
not the same as with NVDA.

Maybe the developers of NVDA can do something about the verbosity.

Regards
Ali


Re: what is the email address for sending to the NVDA chat?

 

For those who use the web interface, the page is below.

https://nvda.groups.io/g/chat


Re: Thunderbird 68.8.0: Unwanted Verbosity Is Improved But Not Fixed

 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 02:42 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
Does a sighted person see some kind of indication that this is happening?
If said content is coming from the status bar, then yes, at least provided the status bar is set to be viewed, and it is by default.

The difference being that most of us couldn't give a flying rat's patootie that this is happening, and would never even notice it.  This is one of the difficulties with accessibility in that, for things like the status bar, it tends to be an "all or nothing" affair within a given class of message.  If this is bothersome, requesting that the "copying message to drafts folder" be put in a class below that which would be seen by the screen reader is what would get rid of it.  I don't know exactly how that's done, but the developers do, as the screen reader does not read each and every thing that occurs in the status bar.

This would be a feature request as opposed to a bug report, or at least I'd consider it a feature change, as one could argue that either state is better than the other, depending on one's personal preferences.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: Thunderbird 68.8.0: Unwanted Verbosity Is Improved But Not Fixed

 

Here's the direct link to filing a TB bug. The developers are not on this list.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Thunderbird


Re: Thunderbird 68.8.0: Unwanted Verbosity Is Improved But Not Fixed

Luke Davis
 

On Sun, 10 May 2020, David Goldfield wrote:

2. When a message that I am composing is being automatically saved to my drafts folder the status message indicating this is clearly being announced, as in "copying message to drafts folder." Should this be happening?
Does a sighted person see some kind of indication that this is happening?

3. When I press ctrl-enter to send a message I sometimes hear the beginning of a status announcement but it gets cut off very quickly and I'm not able to determine what it's trying to tell me. I guess I should load the speech viewer to better capture some of what is being announced
I would suggest the speech history add-on. It's a bit more convenient than the speech viewer.

Luke


locked Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

No, there is no way. I’m wondering why you ask for it. Purpose of opening a mail is to read it….at least for me.

But feel free to log an issue with NVDA.

 

Cheers,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 18:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

Is there anyway to prevent this?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

Yup, that’s normal that it reads the first line.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 12:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

That is unchecked in outlook 2016 it still reads the first line.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 6:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

NVDA-Control-B, Alt-S, uncheck it.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 01:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

Hi, is there a way to prevent NVDA from automatically reading an outlook message when you open it?  If so how?


Re: did this site change over night?

 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 01:54 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I'm not happy that they changed the site
And I hope you've written to their support expressing this displeasure (as well as telling them that they need to include labels on all buttons, whether said labels are presented visually or not).

I instantly understood what's going on, as the convention they used is, well, a common convention.  It's what they omitted in terms of making that common convention accessible, which is usually part and parcel of it, that's really inexcusable in this day and age.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: did this site change over night?

Sarah k Alawami
 

I actually figured it out, sort of. You have to go up to access the fields and everything. Actually it is my boyfriend who took the time to figure it out as he is also a blind pilot, but a very patient one. I'm not happy that they changed the site but I got the stuff I needed yesterday and can now install it.

It's good to know I'm not going crazy, but who knows when they will change the site, and why they did this in the first place is beyond us.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 9 May 2020, at 13:07, Brian Vogel wrote:

Yes, it did, and the idiots that redid the site used an unlabeled button, with the icon of an abstract person's head and shoulders, as the account button.  What's even weirder is that once I click on it, and expand it, I can't seem to enter in to the expanded fields, which include where you enter your e-mail address and password.

I remember playing with this site not long ago when you were asking about it then, and I know that button was a text button labeled, "Account."

Just FYI, if I start using the b shortcut, it's the second button.  The first reads "clickable button" and is the search button.  The second, which reads simply "button" is the account button.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Sable Alpha released.

 

Sable is an engine that will allow you to make your own audio RPG games without writing a single line of code. The link below has everything, including tips, tutorials, and instructions for download and how to file bugs, which should never be sent to this list because they will never see it. Enjoy.

https://ebonskystudios.com/sable-alpha-download/


locked Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

Gene
 

I should have said, the first line is spoken. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis L
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

Is there anyway to prevent this?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

Yup, that’s normal that it reads the first line.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 12:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

That is unchecked in outlook 2016 it still reads the first line.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 6:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

NVDA-Control-B, Alt-S, uncheck it.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 01:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

Hi, is there a way to prevent NVDA from automatically reading an outlook message when you open it?  If so how?