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Re: New SpeakOn MediaSuite NVDA add-on for version 2019.3.1 and later
hurrikennyandopo ...
Hi David
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
The resources you gave for speak on as in the pod cast you done etc I have put into a page which comes off my website. the first part is for speech hub and the second is for speak on along with your podcasts on how to use it. I also mentioned with speech hub to install the add on and also with speak on to put it to sleep. Also to let people know the add ons have been updated to work with the latest version of NVDA. Not sure if the name of the page is right but can be changed but wanted it to say the name of the programs and the nvda add ons for nvda Speech hub yes works with nvda where speak on is self voicing. I wanted to try and tie the 3 in some how for the heading of the page. Hopefully also it will be easier for people to find your pod casts on how to use speak on it is a good l little program. Gene nz the link to the page it is off is called http://accessibilitycentral.net/nvda%20tutorials%20for%20other%20programs.html The heading which goes to it's own page is called speech hub and speak on resources as you had for speak on but wanted to include both.
On 13/05/2020 12:38 am, David Griffith wrote:
Further to Isaac's message about the NVDA AddOn for Speak ON
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Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10
Yep, that's right. IN my case i hear "progress" then blank, and there is not a thing there. I have to in my case either alt tab away and back to, or or hit windows m or windows d, and then alt tab back to the explorer window. to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there. For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there. Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here
On 24 May 2020, at 0:18, Ron Canazzi wrote:
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Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10
On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 11:56 AM, Gene wrote:
I'm not sure the sighted people don't have bugs standard is valid.It's not, nor is it accurate. By definition one cannot have bugs with software one is not using, but everyone experiences bugs at one point or another. And as a former developer I can tell you that bug fixes get prioritized based on whether they're show-stoppers (first priority), major stumbling blocks (second priority), minor stumbling blocks (third priority), or trivial annoyances (whenever, if ever). There is a finite amount of time, money, and talent and that will be focused where it's considered by the software maker to be most needed. If I can work around something in seconds that won't stop me from reporting it as a bug, but what it will do is make me realize that the probability of said bug being fixed any time soon is very small indeed. All of the above leaves aside, for simplicity's sake, the fact that software often interacts with each other depending on exactly what's in use. Very often what appears to be the problem, and is actually where you as an end user are encountering the problem, is not the genesis of said problem. In the case of NVDA, it even gives you some mechanisms to figure this out to a certain degree yourself, like being able to start NVDA with all add-ons disabled. If things suddenly start behaving normally, it isn't NVDA itself that's causing the problem, but one of the add-ons you're using. Then, if you want to be thorough about chasing down which, you turn add-ons back on, but disable half of them. If the problem is still there, you know it's in that half, if not, it's one in the disabled half. You keep enabling/disabling by halves within the problem sphere until you find the culprit. Then you report the culprit and issue to its developer(s). -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform. Now, you simply declare your own truth. ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019
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Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10
Gene
I don't know how much time would be involved fixing
it. I would think there are far more serious behaviors, I don't know if
they are bugs, caused by how this or that program may interact with NVDA.
For example, run Virtual Recorder Portable as modified by the late Carlos.
I suspect th4e unmodified program would do the same thing, but I know this one
does. I'll supply a download link if people want to test this. When
you run the program, every item in the dialog, which is the main interface, is
read and you can't stop it. if you leave the program and return to the
window, every item is read again. then, you can finally tab from item to
item and hear them read as you land on them. But it still doesn't work
properly. Let's say you tab three times quickly. Each item will be
read. Speech isn't stopped. its like a repetition of the first
behavior but this time, limited to the items you tab through.
I see this behavior in other places as well.
It may not be very common but I suspect it is common enough that since I've
raised it, others will give examples.
My question is, how much work would be involved in
fixing the fantom window behavior and would that detract in any meaningful way
from development or fixing more serious bugs or behaviors?
I'm not sure the sighted people don't have bugs
standard is valid. For one thing, Windows isn't designed to be used by
screen-readers and it is a complex environment. Many programs are complex
environments and there is constant pressure to alter NVDA as Windows and
programs change. Getting rid of very small odd bugs like this may not be a
good or remotely important activity.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Felix G.
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or
cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10 if you type those lines exactly as shown, chances of destroying anything are minimal. In case you do somehow screw up in Python Console, usually you can remedy the situation by simply restarting NVDA. As a general rule, however, you had better know what you're doing when you work in Python Console as you're manipulating NVDA at its deepest levels. I agree that it's a minor distraction. What I don't agree with in principle, however, is that as screen reader users we should just accept anomalies. Sighted users, for the most part, wouldn't. Software is never perfect, and only a fool could believe it can ever be bug-free, but still bugs are to be fixed before they become permanent fixtures to be accepted as part of the lay of the land. This one is definitely on the verge as far as I'm concerned. Best, Felix Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 16:17 Uhr schrieb Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...>: > > Hi Felix, > > Thanks for confirming this issue. It's not the greatest distraction in > the world, but it's been around for so long that I was wondering if > everyone just got used to it or if it was just an issue of something I > was doing. > As far as the python import issue, that sounds like something you could > really screw up if you weren't careful. I am not a programmer and I am > wondering if I tried something like this I could destroy something. > > > > > On 5/24/2020 6:42 AM, Felix G. wrote: > > Hi! > > That's exactly what it is. NVDA's focus tracking is slightly broken, > > as I reported in 2018: > > https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/8389 > > The window is not actually still there, it's just that the active > > window switches, and NVDA expects information about this new context > > to be available within 500 ms which, on busy or slow machines, is not > > always possible. > > To investigate whether this bug is actually responsible, execute the > > following statements in the Python console: > > import watchdog > > watchdog.MIN_CORE_ALIVE_TIMEOUT = watchdog.NORMAL_CORE_ALIVE_TIMEOUT > > Then try the copy or move operation again and see if the ghost has > > been exorcised. > > Best, > > Felix > > > > Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 10:18 Uhr schrieb Rob Hudson > > <rob_hudson3182@...>: > >> I've noticed this ghost window also. I just hit tab and it usually goes away. It's usually a focus problem with the screen reader. Another time I've noticed ghost windows is if you are in the settings app invoked with win+i. If you exit it, sometimes, by invoking the say title, you hear something like, ShellExperieNceHost. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@...> > >> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io > >> Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 03:18:00 -0400 > >> Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10 > >> > >>> Hi Luke, > >>> > >>> I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of > >>> any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you > >>> check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you > >>> hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the > >>> keystroke insert (NVDA) + T. That's when I get the feedback such as > >>> '87%' or 94%' or 100%'. > >>> > >>> > >>> On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote: > >>>> On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> 5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I > >>>>> alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is > >>>>> then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file. > >>>> And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to > >>>> actually answer my question. Which was, again: > >>>> > >>>>>> How exactly do you know the window is still there? > >>>> I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use > >>>> that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried? > >>>> > >>>> Luke > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> -- > >>> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes. > >>> They ask: "How Happy are You?" > >>> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!" > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes. > They ask: "How Happy are You?" > I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!" > > > >
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Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10
Felix G.
Hi Ron,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
if you type those lines exactly as shown, chances of destroying anything are minimal. In case you do somehow screw up in Python Console, usually you can remedy the situation by simply restarting NVDA. As a general rule, however, you had better know what you're doing when you work in Python Console as you're manipulating NVDA at its deepest levels. I agree that it's a minor distraction. What I don't agree with in principle, however, is that as screen reader users we should just accept anomalies. Sighted users, for the most part, wouldn't. Software is never perfect, and only a fool could believe it can ever be bug-free, but still bugs are to be fixed before they become permanent fixtures to be accepted as part of the lay of the land. This one is definitely on the verge as far as I'm concerned. Best, Felix Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 16:17 Uhr schrieb Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>:
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Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10
Ron Canazzi
Hi Felix,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Thanks for confirming this issue. It's not the greatest distraction in the world, but it's been around for so long that I was wondering if everyone just got used to it or if it was just an issue of something I was doing. As far as the python import issue, that sounds like something you could really screw up if you weren't careful. I am not a programmer and I am wondering if I tried something like this I could destroy something.
On 5/24/2020 6:42 AM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi! --
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes. They ask: "How Happy are You?" I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
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Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10
Gene
People who are receiving training should, perhaps
be told that such things can occur and not to worry about them. I know of
one case where someone saw the information after removing a device and was
worried that there was a problem that needed correcting. He spent time
trying to correct it which caused needless frustration and wasted
time.
Screen-readers, functioning in
the complex environments in which they do are going to do anomalous things now
and then. For some reason, NVDA says s p when Firefox is opening.
Gene
----- Original Message
-----
From: Felix G.
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or
cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10 I would be pragmatic about it. If it is visually gone then announcing it is, by definition, incorrect screen reader behavior regardless of conditions. Invisible windows are not a valid metaphor in the sighted user's world model, so why should we bother? Best, Felix Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 13:28 Uhr schrieb Gene <gsasner@...>: > > Its an interesting question as to just what is there. At times, something is there but I don't think it is a window. When I use Safely Remove Hardware, after I get the message that its safe to remove whatever the device is, if I don't move, I can read the title bar and see information about that function. This is in Windows 7 with NVDA. I haven't tested other combinations of screen-readers and later Windows versions. > > Sometimes, I close something, I don't recall what, and the title bar indicates something is there but moving away causes me not to be able to move back to it. It might be technically interesting to know what is going on but it doesn't appear to be anything incorrect, rather some sort of anamaly or artifact that may occur when combining screen-readers with Windows under certain conditions. > > Gene. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ron Canazzi > Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 2:18 AM > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io > Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10 > > Hi Luke, > > I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of > any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you > check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you > hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the > keystroke insert (NVDA) + T. That's when I get the feedback such as > '87%' or 94%' or 100%'. > > > On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote: > > On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote: > > > >> 5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I > >> alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is > >> then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file. > > > > And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to > > actually answer my question. Which was, again: > > > >>> How exactly do you know the window is still there? > > > > I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use > > that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried? > > > > Luke > > > > > > > > -- > They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes. > They ask: "How Happy are You?" > I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!" > > > >
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Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10
Felix G.
Hi!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I would be pragmatic about it. If it is visually gone then announcing it is, by definition, incorrect screen reader behavior regardless of conditions. Invisible windows are not a valid metaphor in the sighted user's world model, so why should we bother? Best, Felix Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 13:28 Uhr schrieb Gene <gsasner@gmail.com>:
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Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10
Gene
Its an interesting question as to just what is
there. At times, something is there but I don't think it is a
window. When I use Safely Remove Hardware, after I get the message that
its safe to remove whatever the device is, if I don't move, I can read the title
bar and see information about that function. This is in Windows 7 with
NVDA. I haven't tested other combinations of screen-readers and later
Windows versions.
Sometimes, I close something, I don't recall what,
and the title bar indicates something is there but moving away causes me not to
be able to move back to it. It might be technically interesting to know
what is going on but it doesn't appear to be anything incorrect, rather some
sort of anamaly or artifact that may occur when combining screen-readers with
Windows under certain conditions.
Gene.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 2:18 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or
cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10 I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the keystroke insert (NVDA) + T. That's when I get the feedback such as '87%' or 94%' or 100%'. On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote: > On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote: > >> 5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I >> alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is >> then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file. > > And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to > actually answer my question. Which was, again: > >>> How exactly do you know the window is still there? > > I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use > that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried? > > Luke > > > -- They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes. They ask: "How Happy are You?" I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
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Re: is there Netflix app on pc?
There is a Chrome browser extension.
73 N2DYN Angelo
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of hurrikennyandopo ...
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 10:28 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] is there netflix app on pc?
Hi
Not sure about the app version but the website part works well with NVDA. A while ago I did a tutorial on using nvda with it and turning on audio description as well and finding audio described content. Gene nz
On 24/05/2020 6:36 am, Lino Morales wrote:
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Re: Can NVDA Access Font Attributes for Non Standard Web Page Links?
Gene
There is a setting in NVDA in the document
formatting dialog that says Announce formatting changes after the cursor (can
cause a lag. If you turn that on, it may do what you want but it may be
far too verbose, I don't know how many changes may occur on a typical web page
as you move down it, but it may be cumbersome. You may want to see what
happens, however.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Kenny
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can NVDA Access Font Attributes for Non Standard
Web Page Links? routines that may yield some sort of difference. Just figured since there was a change in color some coding in the HTML would be visible in helping NVDA speak it. On 5/23/2020 11:30 AM, Gene wrote: > Have you tried NVDA key f before and after activating the link or whatever the control is? You may hear a different color, though I don't know if such changes are properly available when in browse mode. You may want to compare before and after activation with browse mode on and off, switching settings before and after activation so you get responses in both settings for before and after. > > Gene > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Kenny > Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 8:45 AM > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io > Subject: [nvda] Can NVDA Access Font Attributes for Non Standard Web Page Links? > > > This problem has been bugging me for a while, so I've decided to ask > much smarter people here on the list about it. > > > Decided to tinker with my old TP-Link Archer C3150 router for I'm > looking to replace my current Verizon Quantum Gateway Router. > > > In the Archer C3150 admin area the various settings are toggled on/off > by clicking what seems to be a non standard HTML link. Not sure if it is > created with Java Script or DHTML. The problem is that I have no verbal > confirmation from NVDA if the font has changed color, face type or anything. > > > Got visual assistance and I'm told the link turns "Green" when toggled > on, and "Red" when toggled off. > > > Is there any add-on or NVDA keyboard shortcut available that would allow > me to access all font attributes of a letter the mouse pointer or > Browser cursor is focused on? > > > The background/foreground color, type, size etc? There has too be a way > for me to get some sort of feedback on these links from NVDA. > > > Having the "Clickable" option under Document Formatting in NVDA > preferences enabled is very helpful. If I didn't have that turned on, I > wouldn't even know the text associated with some of these options is a > link at all. > > > I also encountered similar situations in the Tidal, Spotify and MyMedia > (Alexa skill) apps. Specifically when accessing the settings page for > modifying important options. > > > Any recommendations on what I can do when trying to navigate pages > containing these new fangled visually esthetic links? > > > I'm using NVDA 2020.1 by the way under Windows 10 2004. > > > -Kenny > > > > > > >
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Re: Accessible software to backup files
blago blago
Caution! Backup your data before using my manual!
Hi! I am using ln.exe. It work much faster and backups don't take so much space on disk then if you just copy and paste folder . You can read about this program here https://schinagl.priv.at/nt/ln/ln.html but it is hard to read. Download program at http://www.schinagl.priv.at/nt/ln/ln.zip Unpack ln.zip to C:\Program Files\ln. Move file C:\Program Files\ln\bat\DeLoreanCopy.bat to folder C:\Program Files\ln. Open folder C:\Program Files\ln Create file backup.bat here. Open it with notepad. Write to it next two lines: set PATH=%PATH%;C:\Program Files\ DeLoreanCopy.bat D:\health E:\backup_folder Now every time when you run backup.bat it will copy D:\health to E:\backup_folder Off course you should change folder names to yours. This folder names only for example. When you run backup.bat it will open command line window. When this window dissapear the backup is done. You can make shorcut of backup.bat to desktop.
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Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10
Felix G.
Hi!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
That's exactly what it is. NVDA's focus tracking is slightly broken, as I reported in 2018: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/8389 The window is not actually still there, it's just that the active window switches, and NVDA expects information about this new context to be available within 500 ms which, on busy or slow machines, is not always possible. To investigate whether this bug is actually responsible, execute the following statements in the Python console: import watchdog watchdog.MIN_CORE_ALIVE_TIMEOUT = watchdog.NORMAL_CORE_ALIVE_TIMEOUT Then try the copy or move operation again and see if the ghost has been exorcised. Best, Felix Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 10:18 Uhr schrieb Rob Hudson <rob_hudson3182@opopanax.net>:
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Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10
Rob Hudson
I've noticed this ghost window also. I just hit tab and it usually goes away. It's usually a focus problem with the screen reader. Another time I've noticed ghost windows is if you are in the settings app invoked with win+i. If you exit it, sometimes, by invoking the say title, you hear something like, ShellExperieNceHost.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 03:18:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10 Hi Luke,
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Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10
Ron Canazzi
Hi Luke,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the keystroke insert (NVDA) + T. That's when I get the feedback such as '87%' or 94%' or 100%'.
On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to actually answer my question. Which was, again:I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?How exactly do you know the window is still there? --
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes. They ask: "How Happy are You?" I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
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Re: How to Fix Sluggish Responsiveness When Arrowing Through a Word Document
Jackie
Hey David, I don't know if Office 365 has it, but under options, I
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
think under view tab, there's an option that refers to live preview. Disabling it really speeds up Word. Have a great holiday weekend.
On 5/23/20, Luke Davis <luke@newanswertech.com> wrote:
Sorry if you answered this earlier in the thread David, but what are the --
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to: wp4newbs-request@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs & check out my sites at www.brighter-vision.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com
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Re: is there Netflix app on pc?
hurrikennyandopo ...
Hi
Not sure about the app version but the website part works well with NVDA. A while ago I did a tutorial on using nvda with it and turning on audio description as well and finding audio described content. Gene nz
On 24/05/2020 6:36 am, Lino Morales
wrote:
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Re: How to Fix Sluggish Responsiveness When Arrowing Through a Word Document
Luke Davis
Sorry if you answered this earlier in the thread David, but what are the specs on that machine? Memory and CPU (speed and cores)?
Luke
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Re: can't seem to navigate through lists
Luke Davis
L gets you to a list. You shouldn't press L once you're already in the list; that will jump you to the next list.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
בתאריך יום ו׳, 22 במאי 2020 ב-14:55 מאת Darren Harris via groups.io <darren_g_harris=btinternet.com@groups.io>:
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Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10
Luke Davis
On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:
5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to actually answer my question. Which was, again: I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?How exactly do you know the window is still there? Luke
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