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Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

Tyler Spivey
 

Exactly.
when you correctly press caps+k, caps goes down, k goes down, k goes up
and caps goes up. That's reflected in the output, or at least should be.

However, your keyboard seems to only support the true modifier keys
(alt, control, windows and shift), and can't register more than one
keypress at a time otherwise.

Seems like you got shift to work as your modifier. Great.

I think this might be more anoying than expected. If it is, then we go
another route; simply rebinding the keys that you need in the gesture
editor using, say, control shift. Nothing says that NVDA key commands
need to use the NVDA key.
You can remap current line to, say, control shift i without any problem,
and it would still give you your left shift for typing normally.
There aren't a lot of keys you really need in daily use; this might be a
better solution than losing left shift.

I also have another addon which turns on the sticky keys functionality
for just the NVDA modifier, but that might also be annoying.

I would definitely recommend returning that and buying something else.
You should be able to find something in the same price range with a
better keyboard.


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Isak,

             If you purchased locally from a brick and mortar store, and they have a floor model, and they're open and allowing any customers in, I'd suggest you go there with a portable copy of NVDA on a jump drive, explain what is happening with your unit, and asking if you can spend a couple of minutes, under supervision if required, trying out NVDA on their unit.

             Everything you've described just seems to scream idiosyncratic and fundamentally wrong to me.  This would be one way to see if my gut instinct is correct, and whether all might be solved with a replacement machine of exactly the same type.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Brian, yes, the BIOS/UEFI updater did not ask for a restart. It seemingly did nothing, just went away.

Now I re-mapped Left Shift to Insert and it works just beautifully as an NVDA modifyer key. AS I said, not convenient at all, but maybe I can live with it. Fortunately, I don't need to make the final decision whether I want to return the computer or not before in around three weeks.


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Isak, et. al.,

                Just as a side note, but an important one, I have not seen a BIOS/UEFI updater package in years that does not check whether what's already installed has the same or higher version number than what it intends to install.  If that's found to be true, it just exits.  If you did try to run the updater, and did not have to restart, it probably did just that.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

I checked the UEFI/Bios thing and it is up-to-date. The version shown in the System Information is the same as the one on the support page from 2018.


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 01:06 PM, Isak Sand wrote:
The UEFI/Bios update may be of interest. I tried to install it, but I'm not sure whether it succeeded or not.
If you got to a point where you were told to restart the machine to finish, and the machine has actually restarted, you've definitely succeeded.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Hello,

You're absolutely right. When pressing Caps Lock +K, I hear 20, 20, 75, 75.
So have I understood correctly that when a key command with two keys works as it should, one will hear the modifier key, so to speak, first and last, but if it says the modifier key, in this case Caps Lock which is 20, two times consecutively, it would not work as a modifier key in this case?

Here anyway some more test results:
Right Control+K: 162, 75, 75, 162
Left Control + K: 163, 75, 75, 163
Left Shift + K: 160, 75, 75, 160
Right Shift + K: 161, 75, 75, 161
For all other keys I tried, § to the left of 1, Print Screen, Delete and some others, it said the other value than 75 twice before 75.

Does this all theoretically mean that I could have Left Shift as an NVDA key and do everything Shift is needed for with the right one? Not convenient, but maybe kind of doable, since right shift is rather big and the keyboard itself small.


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

Tyler Spivey
 

Try something.
Start key test, and press caps+k.
You should hear 20, 75, 75, 20.
My guess is that instead, you'll hear 20, 20, 75, 75.

Also, try that with other keys, for example the key to the left of 1 (`
on my keyboard). If that works, we can set the modifier to that with the
code.

On 5/30/2020 10:06 AM, Isak Sand wrote:
Hello,

First of all, Chris, Windows+B gives the VK codes "91, 66, 91, 66".
To me it seems like the keyboard does not allow any other than certain
keys to be pressed together with other ones. If I'm in the keyboard help
and press, say, Alt+Control+Shift+K, NVDA will read out every key. When
I add Caps Lock to that huge command, it will still say
"AltControl+Shift+K", so it kind of just leaves the NVDA key outside the
command. Exactly the same happens if I add Insert or the < key that
Tyler defined in the Add-on.

I have looked at the manual driver page, and there are only two things
showing up there: that Bios update you mentioned and then a rather
inaccessible piece of software called Rescue and Smart Assistant.
I haven't been able to find anything keyboard-related to this machine.
The keyboard drivers that show up in Device Manager are HID drivers.

The UEFI/Bios update may be of interest. I tried to install it, but I'm
not sure whether it succeeded or not. Maybe I should try to figure out
which Bios version it has now and whether it matches that newer one. The
Exe file I found in the Zip file for the Bios update just seemed to do
nothing and when I tried Install.cmd, the computer said straight away
something like "press any key to continue".


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Hello,

First of all, Chris, Windows+B gives the VK codes "91, 66, 91, 66".
To me it seems like the keyboard does not allow any other than certain keys to be pressed together with other ones. If I'm in the keyboard help and press, say, Alt+Control+Shift+K, NVDA will read out every key. When I add Caps Lock to that huge command, it will still say "AltControl+Shift+K", so it kind of just leaves the NVDA key outside the command. Exactly the same happens if I add Insert or the < key that Tyler defined in the Add-on.

I have looked at the manual driver page, and there are only two things showing up there: that Bios update you mentioned and then a rather inaccessible piece of software called Rescue and Smart Assistant.
I haven't been able to find anything keyboard-related to this machine. The keyboard drivers that show up in Device Manager are HID drivers.

The UEFI/Bios update may be of interest. I tried to install it, but I'm not sure whether it succeeded or not. Maybe I should try to figure out which Bios version it has now and whether it matches that newer one. The Exe file I found in the Zip file for the Bios update just seemed to do nothing and when I tried Install.cmd, the computer said straight away something like "press any key to continue".


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Isak,

           There are several things I would suggest you do, the first of which is to make certain that all of the Lenovo supplied drivers are up to date on your machine.  The webpage on their support site for this, where you drop in to the Automatic Driver Update tab, where there is a Start Scan button, is:  https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/tablets/miix-series/miix-630-12q35/downloads/automatic-driver-update

If you prefer to land in the manual tab instead:  https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/tablets/miix-series/miix-630-12q35/downloads/driver-list
but there are a range of settings you need to select from at the top to see the driver(s) you might need, and not all at once, so in this case I'd suggest allowing the automatic scan.

There was a BIOS/UEFI update from 2018, and it could be possible your machine does not have that, and that can have an impact on all hardware, including the keyboard.

I can find no image or diagram of the actual keyboard layout itself either in the User Guide or Hardware Maintenance Manual, but as you've already indicated they state it is a full-sized keyboard, which generally means at the very least having an Insert key, and very often a number pad (though not necessarily for a convertible tablet keyboard).

I suspect either the keyboard driver, UEFI/BIOS, or some interaction between the two is a hitch in the proverbial gitty-up here.  There's no logical reason for what you describe, though I have no doubt it's happening.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

Chris Mullins
 

Hi Isak

I’ve been following this thread with interest.  Out of curiosity, if you run the key test addon and issue the Windows+b command, what VK codes are announced?

Cheers

Chris

 

From: Isak Sand
Sent: 30 May 2020 12:36
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Hello and thank you so much for your effort! It is highly appreciated.
Unfortunately, also this NVDA modifier reacts exactly in the same way as the other ones. It just does not take the keys that are pressed together with it in consideration.
If I enter Keyboard help (I have the enhanced touch gestures or whatever it was add-on installed), and press the NVDA key, regardless of whether it is Caps Lock, Insert or now even this new one, NVDA says "NVDA".
But if I hold any of the NVDA keys down and press, for example, the letter b to read the window, Keyboard Help just says "b", whhere it should say something like "NVDA+B, reads the whole window".

I don't think the problem is with the add-on itself, because when I tested it on another computer, the < key acts just fine as an NVDA modifier key and works just beautifully with different commands.

 


Re: Tony's addons - updates

Rui Fontes
 

Now a days, I assume that is doable...

Back in 2013 when we make the automatic language switching module it was very time consuming, since the machines 7 years ago do not were so powerfull...


And, do not forget that the language detection works allright in long paragraphs or text, but do not work reliably with one or two words...

By instance, suppose an english system and a text in portuguese. Since portuguese have several characters not existing in english, like á, é, ç and so on, is relatively easy to detect, and switching to portuguese, but if you press Alt to go to the menus, it is impossible to detect the language should be switched to english...

Except if you create a rule to always read the menus in the default language, and even that do not solve the problem, because I have the system in portuguese but some apps have the menu in english...


Rui Fontes


Às 15:16 de 30/05/2020, Tony Malykh escreveu:

That's what I thought too.

On a separate note, I was thinking that we can use langdetect library to detect the language of every paragraph on the fly and switch to that language. This would allow to automatically switch between two Latin-based languages, or between Chinese and Japanese. Maybe some day if I have enough time I'll work on that...

On 5/29/2020 11:38 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:
They have different characters, but both group of characters are in the same UNICODE group...


So, like among the latin languages, it is not possible, without lots of processement, to switch from chinese to japanese and vice-versa...


Rui Fontes

Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 02:43 de 28/05/2020, William Wong escreveu:
No, they have different character. As far as I know.


Tony Malykh 於 27/5/2020 22:32 寫道:
Language map can be edited in preferences. Do Chinese and Japanese use the same Unicode character set or different ones? If they use the same set, autmatic switching won't be possible.

On 5/27/2020 3:21 AM, William Wong wrote:
Hi,

Thanks for the list of addons.

Regarding "tonysEnhancements"

how to edit Edit language map

for instance, If I want to configure Traditional Chinese and Japanese, how should I correct the map?

Thanks.









Re: Tony's addons - updates

Gianluigi Coppelletti
 

Hi,

I have some issues with BrowserNav.

The version 1.11 doesn't work for me. If I press "p" or "shift+p" I only get a beep and nothin happens. Other commands like "nvda+alt+arrows" don't work either. No crackling when I press quick navigation commands like "h" for headings.

This happens both with Mozilla Firefox and Google Chrome.

If I check for updates I can download and install v. 1.9 which seems to work except for the new commands like "P" and "shift+p".

What am I doing wrong?

I use NVDA 2020.1 on an old laptop with Windows 8.1.

Other add-ons that I have installed are:

Add-on Updater v. 20.06.1

Mozilla Apps Enhancements v. 1.11

OCR v. 2.0

SentenceNav v. 2.7

TextNav v. 1.4

I hope you can help me because this add-on is really very interesting.

Thanks in advance.

Bye.

Gigi


Re: Tony's addons - updates

Tony Malykh
 

That's what I thought too.

On a separate note, I was thinking that we can use langdetect library to detect the language of every paragraph on the fly and switch to that language. This would allow to automatically switch between two Latin-based languages, or between Chinese and Japanese. Maybe some day if I have enough time I'll work on that...

On 5/29/2020 11:38 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:
They have different characters, but both group of characters are in the same UNICODE group...


So, like among the latin languages, it is not possible, without lots of processement, to switch from chinese to japanese and vice-versa...


Rui Fontes

Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 02:43 de 28/05/2020, William Wong escreveu:
No, they have different character. As far as I know.


Tony Malykh 於 27/5/2020 22:32 寫道:
Language map can be edited in preferences. Do Chinese and Japanese use the same Unicode character set or different ones? If they use the same set, autmatic switching won't be possible.

On 5/27/2020 3:21 AM, William Wong wrote:
Hi,

Thanks for the list of addons.

Regarding "tonysEnhancements"

how to edit Edit language map

for instance, If I want to configure Traditional Chinese and Japanese, how should I correct the map?

Thanks.








Re: Auto language switching in nvda

Tony Malykh
 

Press "Edit language map" button in the preferences.

On 5/29/2020 12:22 PM, farhan israk wrote:

Thank you. I have enabled it. I didn't get any option to configure language. How to do it?


On Fri, 29 May 2020, 7:27 pm Tony Malykh, <anton.malykh@...> wrote:

Did you enable it in settings? Did you configure your language that you would like to switch to?

On 5/28/2020 12:07 PM, farhan israk wrote:

Though I have installed tony enhancement addon, nvda doesn't change language automatically. I downloaded it from nvda addon website yesterday.


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Hello and thank you so much for your effort! It is highly appreciated.
Unfortunately, also this NVDA modifier reacts exactly in the same way as the other ones. It just does not take the keys that are pressed together with it in consideration.
If I enter Keyboard help (I have the enhanced touch gestures or whatever it was add-on installed), and press the NVDA key, regardless of whether it is Caps Lock, Insert or now even this new one, NVDA says "NVDA".
But if I hold any of the NVDA keys down and press, for example, the letter b to read the window, Keyboard Help just says "b", whhere it should say something like "NVDA+B, reads the whole window".

I don't think the problem is with the add-on itself, because when I tested it on another computer, the < key acts just fine as an NVDA modifier key and works just beautifully with different commands.


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

Tyler Spivey
 

It does, and the key reference seems to match. Last step, hopefully.
Install this addon:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mnwa9gpn79g0yrg/modifier-0.1.nvda-addon?dl=1

After that, your new modifier should work.


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Hello,

Thanks! It says the number 226 two times. Does this make sense?


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

Tyler Spivey
 

Let's do this a different way, then. Install this addon:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pjmpsvguwogqmo8/keyTest-0.1.nvda-addon?dl=1

That will add a Key test item to the NVDA Tools menu. Activate it, then
hit that key a few times and see what it says. Your keyboard will return
to normal 15 seconds later.


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Hello and thanks so much for your help!

I have played around quite a bit with SharpKeys, but no luck.

It would be just quite fine even if I could never use that key when typing. I can't see a situation where I really would need to type < or > characters very often, so if it's possible to have a way NVDA thinking that it's my modifier key, that's just fine.

I'm sorry, but I think I do not really understand what I need to do in the Python Console. I'm really not into programmin so I might just miss something obvious. The only thing that happens when I press the key after pasting in the lines is that  < characters comes into the text field of the python Console.