Date   

Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Hello,

You're absolutely right. When pressing Caps Lock +K, I hear 20, 20, 75, 75.
So have I understood correctly that when a key command with two keys works as it should, one will hear the modifier key, so to speak, first and last, but if it says the modifier key, in this case Caps Lock which is 20, two times consecutively, it would not work as a modifier key in this case?

Here anyway some more test results:
Right Control+K: 162, 75, 75, 162
Left Control + K: 163, 75, 75, 163
Left Shift + K: 160, 75, 75, 160
Right Shift + K: 161, 75, 75, 161
For all other keys I tried, § to the left of 1, Print Screen, Delete and some others, it said the other value than 75 twice before 75.

Does this all theoretically mean that I could have Left Shift as an NVDA key and do everything Shift is needed for with the right one? Not convenient, but maybe kind of doable, since right shift is rather big and the keyboard itself small.


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

Tyler Spivey
 

Try something.
Start key test, and press caps+k.
You should hear 20, 75, 75, 20.
My guess is that instead, you'll hear 20, 20, 75, 75.

Also, try that with other keys, for example the key to the left of 1 (`
on my keyboard). If that works, we can set the modifier to that with the
code.

On 5/30/2020 10:06 AM, Isak Sand wrote:
Hello,

First of all, Chris, Windows+B gives the VK codes "91, 66, 91, 66".
To me it seems like the keyboard does not allow any other than certain
keys to be pressed together with other ones. If I'm in the keyboard help
and press, say, Alt+Control+Shift+K, NVDA will read out every key. When
I add Caps Lock to that huge command, it will still say
"AltControl+Shift+K", so it kind of just leaves the NVDA key outside the
command. Exactly the same happens if I add Insert or the < key that
Tyler defined in the Add-on.

I have looked at the manual driver page, and there are only two things
showing up there: that Bios update you mentioned and then a rather
inaccessible piece of software called Rescue and Smart Assistant.
I haven't been able to find anything keyboard-related to this machine.
The keyboard drivers that show up in Device Manager are HID drivers.

The UEFI/Bios update may be of interest. I tried to install it, but I'm
not sure whether it succeeded or not. Maybe I should try to figure out
which Bios version it has now and whether it matches that newer one. The
Exe file I found in the Zip file for the Bios update just seemed to do
nothing and when I tried Install.cmd, the computer said straight away
something like "press any key to continue".


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Hello,

First of all, Chris, Windows+B gives the VK codes "91, 66, 91, 66".
To me it seems like the keyboard does not allow any other than certain keys to be pressed together with other ones. If I'm in the keyboard help and press, say, Alt+Control+Shift+K, NVDA will read out every key. When I add Caps Lock to that huge command, it will still say "AltControl+Shift+K", so it kind of just leaves the NVDA key outside the command. Exactly the same happens if I add Insert or the < key that Tyler defined in the Add-on.

I have looked at the manual driver page, and there are only two things showing up there: that Bios update you mentioned and then a rather inaccessible piece of software called Rescue and Smart Assistant.
I haven't been able to find anything keyboard-related to this machine. The keyboard drivers that show up in Device Manager are HID drivers.

The UEFI/Bios update may be of interest. I tried to install it, but I'm not sure whether it succeeded or not. Maybe I should try to figure out which Bios version it has now and whether it matches that newer one. The Exe file I found in the Zip file for the Bios update just seemed to do nothing and when I tried Install.cmd, the computer said straight away something like "press any key to continue".


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Isak,

           There are several things I would suggest you do, the first of which is to make certain that all of the Lenovo supplied drivers are up to date on your machine.  The webpage on their support site for this, where you drop in to the Automatic Driver Update tab, where there is a Start Scan button, is:  https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/tablets/miix-series/miix-630-12q35/downloads/automatic-driver-update

If you prefer to land in the manual tab instead:  https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/tablets/miix-series/miix-630-12q35/downloads/driver-list
but there are a range of settings you need to select from at the top to see the driver(s) you might need, and not all at once, so in this case I'd suggest allowing the automatic scan.

There was a BIOS/UEFI update from 2018, and it could be possible your machine does not have that, and that can have an impact on all hardware, including the keyboard.

I can find no image or diagram of the actual keyboard layout itself either in the User Guide or Hardware Maintenance Manual, but as you've already indicated they state it is a full-sized keyboard, which generally means at the very least having an Insert key, and very often a number pad (though not necessarily for a convertible tablet keyboard).

I suspect either the keyboard driver, UEFI/BIOS, or some interaction between the two is a hitch in the proverbial gitty-up here.  There's no logical reason for what you describe, though I have no doubt it's happening.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

Chris Mullins
 

Hi Isak

I’ve been following this thread with interest.  Out of curiosity, if you run the key test addon and issue the Windows+b command, what VK codes are announced?

Cheers

Chris

 

From: Isak Sand
Sent: 30 May 2020 12:36
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Hello and thank you so much for your effort! It is highly appreciated.
Unfortunately, also this NVDA modifier reacts exactly in the same way as the other ones. It just does not take the keys that are pressed together with it in consideration.
If I enter Keyboard help (I have the enhanced touch gestures or whatever it was add-on installed), and press the NVDA key, regardless of whether it is Caps Lock, Insert or now even this new one, NVDA says "NVDA".
But if I hold any of the NVDA keys down and press, for example, the letter b to read the window, Keyboard Help just says "b", whhere it should say something like "NVDA+B, reads the whole window".

I don't think the problem is with the add-on itself, because when I tested it on another computer, the < key acts just fine as an NVDA modifier key and works just beautifully with different commands.

 


Re: Tony's addons - updates

Rui Fontes
 

Now a days, I assume that is doable...

Back in 2013 when we make the automatic language switching module it was very time consuming, since the machines 7 years ago do not were so powerfull...


And, do not forget that the language detection works allright in long paragraphs or text, but do not work reliably with one or two words...

By instance, suppose an english system and a text in portuguese. Since portuguese have several characters not existing in english, like á, é, ç and so on, is relatively easy to detect, and switching to portuguese, but if you press Alt to go to the menus, it is impossible to detect the language should be switched to english...

Except if you create a rule to always read the menus in the default language, and even that do not solve the problem, because I have the system in portuguese but some apps have the menu in english...


Rui Fontes


Às 15:16 de 30/05/2020, Tony Malykh escreveu:

That's what I thought too.

On a separate note, I was thinking that we can use langdetect library to detect the language of every paragraph on the fly and switch to that language. This would allow to automatically switch between two Latin-based languages, or between Chinese and Japanese. Maybe some day if I have enough time I'll work on that...

On 5/29/2020 11:38 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:
They have different characters, but both group of characters are in the same UNICODE group...


So, like among the latin languages, it is not possible, without lots of processement, to switch from chinese to japanese and vice-versa...


Rui Fontes

Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 02:43 de 28/05/2020, William Wong escreveu:
No, they have different character. As far as I know.


Tony Malykh 於 27/5/2020 22:32 寫道:
Language map can be edited in preferences. Do Chinese and Japanese use the same Unicode character set or different ones? If they use the same set, autmatic switching won't be possible.

On 5/27/2020 3:21 AM, William Wong wrote:
Hi,

Thanks for the list of addons.

Regarding "tonysEnhancements"

how to edit Edit language map

for instance, If I want to configure Traditional Chinese and Japanese, how should I correct the map?

Thanks.









Re: Tony's addons - updates

Gianluigi Coppelletti
 

Hi,

I have some issues with BrowserNav.

The version 1.11 doesn't work for me. If I press "p" or "shift+p" I only get a beep and nothin happens. Other commands like "nvda+alt+arrows" don't work either. No crackling when I press quick navigation commands like "h" for headings.

This happens both with Mozilla Firefox and Google Chrome.

If I check for updates I can download and install v. 1.9 which seems to work except for the new commands like "P" and "shift+p".

What am I doing wrong?

I use NVDA 2020.1 on an old laptop with Windows 8.1.

Other add-ons that I have installed are:

Add-on Updater v. 20.06.1

Mozilla Apps Enhancements v. 1.11

OCR v. 2.0

SentenceNav v. 2.7

TextNav v. 1.4

I hope you can help me because this add-on is really very interesting.

Thanks in advance.

Bye.

Gigi


Re: Tony's addons - updates

Tony Malykh
 

That's what I thought too.

On a separate note, I was thinking that we can use langdetect library to detect the language of every paragraph on the fly and switch to that language. This would allow to automatically switch between two Latin-based languages, or between Chinese and Japanese. Maybe some day if I have enough time I'll work on that...

On 5/29/2020 11:38 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:
They have different characters, but both group of characters are in the same UNICODE group...


So, like among the latin languages, it is not possible, without lots of processement, to switch from chinese to japanese and vice-versa...


Rui Fontes

Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 02:43 de 28/05/2020, William Wong escreveu:
No, they have different character. As far as I know.


Tony Malykh 於 27/5/2020 22:32 寫道:
Language map can be edited in preferences. Do Chinese and Japanese use the same Unicode character set or different ones? If they use the same set, autmatic switching won't be possible.

On 5/27/2020 3:21 AM, William Wong wrote:
Hi,

Thanks for the list of addons.

Regarding "tonysEnhancements"

how to edit Edit language map

for instance, If I want to configure Traditional Chinese and Japanese, how should I correct the map?

Thanks.








Re: Auto language switching in nvda

Tony Malykh
 

Press "Edit language map" button in the preferences.

On 5/29/2020 12:22 PM, farhan israk wrote:

Thank you. I have enabled it. I didn't get any option to configure language. How to do it?


On Fri, 29 May 2020, 7:27 pm Tony Malykh, <anton.malykh@...> wrote:

Did you enable it in settings? Did you configure your language that you would like to switch to?

On 5/28/2020 12:07 PM, farhan israk wrote:

Though I have installed tony enhancement addon, nvda doesn't change language automatically. I downloaded it from nvda addon website yesterday.


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Hello and thank you so much for your effort! It is highly appreciated.
Unfortunately, also this NVDA modifier reacts exactly in the same way as the other ones. It just does not take the keys that are pressed together with it in consideration.
If I enter Keyboard help (I have the enhanced touch gestures or whatever it was add-on installed), and press the NVDA key, regardless of whether it is Caps Lock, Insert or now even this new one, NVDA says "NVDA".
But if I hold any of the NVDA keys down and press, for example, the letter b to read the window, Keyboard Help just says "b", whhere it should say something like "NVDA+B, reads the whole window".

I don't think the problem is with the add-on itself, because when I tested it on another computer, the < key acts just fine as an NVDA modifier key and works just beautifully with different commands.


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

Tyler Spivey
 

It does, and the key reference seems to match. Last step, hopefully.
Install this addon:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mnwa9gpn79g0yrg/modifier-0.1.nvda-addon?dl=1

After that, your new modifier should work.


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Hello,

Thanks! It says the number 226 two times. Does this make sense?


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

Tyler Spivey
 

Let's do this a different way, then. Install this addon:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pjmpsvguwogqmo8/keyTest-0.1.nvda-addon?dl=1

That will add a Key test item to the NVDA Tools menu. Activate it, then
hit that key a few times and see what it says. Your keyboard will return
to normal 15 seconds later.


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Hello and thanks so much for your help!

I have played around quite a bit with SharpKeys, but no luck.

It would be just quite fine even if I could never use that key when typing. I can't see a situation where I really would need to type < or > characters very often, so if it's possible to have a way NVDA thinking that it's my modifier key, that's just fine.

I'm sorry, but I think I do not really understand what I need to do in the Python Console. I'm really not into programmin so I might just miss something obvious. The only thing that happens when I press the key after pasting in the lines is that  < characters comes into the text field of the python Console.


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

Tyler Spivey
 

Yes, assuming your keyboard doesn't have the same problem with it.

You have two options here:
1. Remap with SharpKeys. You then can't use that key for anything except
a modifier. Since it's your < key, you might not want that. Besides
that, I tried getting the press key feature to work, and couldn't, and I
don't know where it is in the list.
2. I can just write an addon that will make NVDA think that key is your
modifier; I have most of the code already. To do that, I need the VK
code of that key.

My keyboard doesn't have that key, so you'll have to find this. Here's how:

Go into the NVDA Python console and paste these two lines in. You'll
then have 15 seconds to hit whatever key you want to find the key code
of, so hit that key a few times.
Once you have the code attached to that key, send it here, I'll fix my
addon and send it to you.

import ui;c = lambda vk, scan, extended, injected: (0,
ui.message(str(vk)))[0]
import keyboardHandler, winInputHook;x=wx.CallLater(10000,
winInputHook.setCallbacks,
keyDown=keyboardHandler.internal_keyDownEvent,
keyUp=keyboardHandler.internal_keyUpEvent);winInputHook.setCallbacks(keyDown=c,
keyUp=c)

On 5/30/2020 1:40 AM, Isak Sand wrote:
Hello,

This is my guess too. This particular keyboard model just does not
accept any other keys to be pressed together with Caps Lock, and I will
discuss the issue with Lenovo.

But then, if we for a while forget about the Caps Lock and other, so to
speak, traditional NVDA modifier keys that simply do not seem to work.
Would there be a reasonably easy way to get the < key to act as a NVDA
modifier key? It could be a good solution at least temporarily.
In the Finnish keyboard layout the < key is the one sitting between left
Shift and z; I think it is  back slash (\) in the US English one.


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

Gene
 

Those with more technical knowledge may disagree or say I'm wrong.  I don't think it matters what key you try to use.  I think that if you remap a key, you are telling the keyboard to generate the same incompatible code as the insert and caps lock key generates now.  You are simply telling another key to do the same thing as a key does now.  Are you saying that a portable numpad is something you wouldn't consider?  It is not a different keyboard, just a numpad.  If you really like that computer, that may solve your problem.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Isak Sand
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 3:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

Hello,

This is my guess too. This particular keyboard model just does not accept any other keys to be pressed together with Caps Lock, and I will discuss the issue with Lenovo.

But then, if we for a while forget about the Caps Lock and other, so to speak, traditional NVDA modifier keys that simply do not seem to work.
Would there be a reasonably easy way to get the < key to act as a NVDA modifier key? It could be a good solution at least temporarily.
In the Finnish keyboard layout the < key is the one sitting between left Shift and z; I think it is  back slash (\) in the US English one.


Re: NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Hello,

This is my guess too. This particular keyboard model just does not accept any other keys to be pressed together with Caps Lock, and I will discuss the issue with Lenovo.

But then, if we for a while forget about the Caps Lock and other, so to speak, traditional NVDA modifier keys that simply do not seem to work.
Would there be a reasonably easy way to get the < key to act as a NVDA modifier key? It could be a good solution at least temporarily.
In the Finnish keyboard layout the < key is the one sitting between left Shift and z; I think it is  back slash (\) in the US English one.


locked Re: win10 2004 and file explorer options issue

 

I also wish to note, before locking this topic, that it has zip, nada, zilch to do with NVDA in any way, shape, or form.  Extended discussion of Windows 10 issues is not on-topic for the main NVDA forum.

If further discussion is desired or required, a separate topic should be opened in the Chat Subgroup.
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--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


locked win10 2004 and file explorer options issue

 

To make it clear, before this happened I was configuring some optional features, but it could have happened before this, I was getting rid of some unsecure smb protocols that I did no longer need.

However putting everything back didn't seem to do much.

Its just that settings in file explorer options will not take till I do them twice.

So far this is just the hide protected system files and hidden folders and files, its another annoyance but not a showstopper as I can get around it.

I hhave had it on 2 units an amd ryzen 2ng gen and my 4th generation intel in the same house and also a 7th gen intel I have in another location so its not just my configuration.

I will probably feed back these and see what happens to it.

Its not that important exactly, most of the time I only touch this stuff after major updates and while I need to get access to some folders to do with some file syncing services, I can get access to those another way.

As for others saying only install early if you want to be in the shakedown cruise, I am fully aware of this.

I have tested things for several years now and when its stable enough for the public to use then I will gladly test things as long as its not effecting me directly with to many issues, I have backups.

I would not suggest anyone else do what I do unless they want to test to.


locked Re: win10 2004 and file explorer options issue

 

Hmmm I got the warning messages before the request and had no chance to respond to the requests at all.

I am making sure I previde links from now on, but I'd like the option to try again knowing that I need to put links and really should in any case.



On 30/05/2020 9:30 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 03:32 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
And since while I can do links I refuse to include entire article pages to justify my posts I'll leave it to others to do.
The problem, Shaun, is that you almost never include anything, period, that backs up your assertions that are incorrect.  This has been the case on the NVDA group, too.

Links would have been more than adequate, but were virtually never provided, either proactively or when requested.  And those who share reliably accurate information either include citations as a matter of their regular posting practice or can produce same when asked.  
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019