Date   

Re: getting rid of the extra verbage in thunderbird

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Got it.

On 8/19/2016 1:12 PM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.io wrote:
hit alt and v then go to tool bars quick filter will be checked just hit enter on it and it will fix this. now and again it will come back.

On 19/08/2016 04:17, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, everyone,


When I shift tab from the inbox, I get something that says "filter these
messages". Is there a way to disable it and go directly to the treeview?


Thanks in advance for your help.


Rosemarie




Re: Possible issues with JOptionPane?

 

Hi Daniel,

I have forwarded this query to developers mailing list.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of NCC Underling
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 8:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Possible issues with JOptionPane?

 

Greetings all,

I'm having issues with Java applet demo here: https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/uiswing/components/dialog.html

In my own testing, only 3 of the 15 possible dialogs announce the main dialog message. However, if I hover with the mouse pointer, or press the [NVDA]+B shortcut, then the message/warning text is annunciated.

I'd be happy to debug the issue (to some degree), but, at this stage am wondering if anyone is able to reproduce the same issue please?

I'm guessing the speech viewer simply echoes what is spoken (not what NVDA actually receives from accessible application?).

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks, Daniel


Possible issues with JOptionPane?

NCC Underling <daniel.tafili@...>
 

Greetings all,

I'm having issues with Java applet demo here: https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/uiswing/components/dialog.html

In my own testing, only 3 of the 15 possible dialogs announce the main dialog message. However, if I hover with the mouse pointer, or press the [NVDA]+B shortcut, then the message/warning text is annunciated.

I'd be happy to debug the issue (to some degree), but, at this stage am wondering if anyone is able to reproduce the same issue please?

I'm guessing the speech viewer simply echoes what is spoken (not what NVDA actually receives from accessible application?).

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks, Daniel


Re: mobil voices on nvda

Lino Morales
 

Bobby I suggest you take this up with James Teh and Michael Curren. Maybe write Joseph Lee privately also. Maybe he can offer you some incite.

On 8/19/2016 8:49 PM, Bobby wrote:
Just to let you all know I'm using the latest snap shot of nvda and I am not happy that the Mobil mark and eva voices aren't present. Please tell me what happened to them because they were many snap shots before this one



Re: mobil voices on nvda

 

Hi,
It was removed due to issues with some routines.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bobby
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 5:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] mobil voices on nvda

Just to let you all know I'm using the latest snap shot of nvda and I am not happy that the Mobil mark and eva voices aren't present. Please tell me what happened to them because they were many snap shots before this one


mobil voices on nvda

Bobby <bvinton@...>
 

Just to let you all know I'm using the latest snap shot of nvda and I am not happy that the Mobil mark and eva voices aren't present. Please tell me what happened to them because they were many snap shots before this one


Notification of recording and post production learning session tomorrow.

derek riemer
 

if you would like to learn how to edit media files in audacity, I am leading a session to teach this tomorrow on the teamtalk server at nvda-kr.org. This skill is highly valuable for post production work of the audio that is recorded at the conference. What you should bring:

1. Go to http://www.audacityteam.org/download/windows/

2. Download the installer. It should be about 23 mb.

3. Install audacity. Don't expect mme to walk you through installing Audacity, come prepared. I will not wait for team members to install audacity unless there is clearly someone struggling to install it. If you struggle to install audacity without help externally, audio editing might not be for you, because this is an extremely demanding task in terms of feeling comfortable with your computer. You should be an intermediate to advanced windows user who feels comfortable using NVDA in situations where things that you don't expect occur. This is one of the most challenging things I have ever used my computer for, even more so than some of the computer science things I've done in school.

4. Show up at the NVDA-KR teamtalk server at 3:00 P.M. Mountain time (2:00 P.M. pacific, 21:00 UTC with your computer, and audacity ready to edit.


--

Derek Riemer

  • Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
  • Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  • Open source enthusiast.
  • Member of Bridge Cu
  • Avid skiier.

Websites:
Honors portfolio
Awesome little hand built weather app!

email me at derek.riemer@...
Phone: (303) 906-2194


Re: SSH with the new windows Bash Client?

jeremy <icu8it2@...>
 

If it's the same thing that was mentioned a while ago here on list, it does work, but seems to have some of the same issues in navigating things like ncurses menus and areas such as files within nano. As with Teraterm and I assume, putty, NVDA doesn't always track the cursor correctly, so you have to use review commands to get an idea of your position sometimes. I'm not sure if this is mostly specific to recent versions of NVDA, as I know older versions worked really well with Teraterm, but I do know the latest one can be really frustrating to use with it.

How does one go about getting and using this bash console in 10, btw, as I'd certainly be willing to give it a shot. Is it something that comes in the latest anniversary update?
Take care.

On 8/19/2016 3:18 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote:
Hello,
Has anyone managed to give the new windows bash client a try yet? I am waiting for my update to install. It is a very functional Ubuntu type system and that means that SSH should work.
If that is the case, no more needing to deal with partly accessible SSH clients, we will be able to use the default windows client!
Thanks,



Re: Word "Clickable" - Number of repetitions and what causes it?

Gene
 

I haven't upgraded NVDA for quite sometime here though every so often I try a new version to test something.  Evidently, NVDA still says clickable at times when the item isn't clickable.  I assume this is a design error.  It isn't just limited to Google. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Word "Clickable" - Number of repetitions and what causes it?

I think the different Google pages are really strange with a screenreader, so NVDA repeating clickable as it does has never really been all that surprising for me. I can't see well enough though to play with the mouse to actually tell if there were multiple items there to click, so your observation kind of explains things. I've often wondered on other pages, if it was announcing clickable at the beginning and end of the item, reason it would say it more than once, but I end up getting annoyed by it so end up turning off that announcement.


On 8/19/2016 2:36 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

The following is a question that only the NVDA developers who handle this can answer, but this is as good a place as any to make the inquiry.

Even as a sighted user I find it confusing when I land on something that gets announced as "Clickable, clickable, clickable" when it either is clickable, but all one would have to do is click once, or when it's not clickable at all.  I am also wondering why the phrase "clickable link" gets used for some links while other links don't get the "clickable" designation, and I'm not talking about something that's stippled out.  There seems to be little rhyme or reason to how/when the designation "clickable" gets used and how many times.

As to the multi-clickable announcement, I'll give an example for an object that is not clickable at all for a sighted user.  When I go to the Gmail Settings, General Tab, I eventually can tab myself to the first part of the settings, which is Language.  I will sometimes (and I just now could not replicate even landing there) land on what looks like the label for this group of settings.  It will generally announce "clickable" three times, but there's nothing there that a sighted mouse user can click, and there's no hint as to what might be clickable there.

There are too many buttons and links to mention as I navigate through this page some of which say "clickable" when you land on them and others that do not.  There's got to be a rhyme and reason here, but I cannot easily fathom what it is.  I also think that saying "clickable link" is redundant and, if you have that rare instance where a given link is blocked, it would make more sense to announce that state of oddity than to ever announce that a link that can be clicked is "clickable."
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    




Re: Word "Clickable" - Number of repetitions and what causes it?

Lino Morales
 

I wish I knew this too Brian. One thing that annoys the crap out OF ME are frames. When their frames I hear out of i frame several times. Michael and James really need to correct this. All I want to hear is frame start or end frame.


On 8/19/2016 3:36 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

The following is a question that only the NVDA developers who handle this can answer, but this is as good a place as any to make the inquiry.

Even as a sighted user I find it confusing when I land on something that gets announced as "Clickable, clickable, clickable" when it either is clickable, but all one would have to do is click once, or when it's not clickable at all.  I am also wondering why the phrase "clickable link" gets used for some links while other links don't get the "clickable" designation, and I'm not talking about something that's stippled out.  There seems to be little rhyme or reason to how/when the designation "clickable" gets used and how many times.

As to the multi-clickable announcement, I'll give an example for an object that is not clickable at all for a sighted user.  When I go to the Gmail Settings, General Tab, I eventually can tab myself to the first part of the settings, which is Language.  I will sometimes (and I just now could not replicate even landing there) land on what looks like the label for this group of settings.  It will generally announce "clickable" three times, but there's nothing there that a sighted mouse user can click, and there's no hint as to what might be clickable there.

There are too many buttons and links to mention as I navigate through this page some of which say "clickable" when you land on them and others that do not.  There's got to be a rhyme and reason here, but I cannot easily fathom what it is.  I also think that saying "clickable link" is redundant and, if you have that rare instance where a given link is blocked, it would make more sense to announce that state of oddity than to ever announce that a link that can be clicked is "clickable."
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    




Re: Word "Clickable" - Number of repetitions and what causes it?

jeremy <icu8it2@...>
 

I think the different Google pages are really strange with a screenreader, so NVDA repeating clickable as it does has never really been all that surprising for me. I can't see well enough though to play with the mouse to actually tell if there were multiple items there to click, so your observation kind of explains things. I've often wondered on other pages, if it was announcing clickable at the beginning and end of the item, reason it would say it more than once, but I end up getting annoyed by it so end up turning off that announcement.


On 8/19/2016 2:36 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

The following is a question that only the NVDA developers who handle this can answer, but this is as good a place as any to make the inquiry.

Even as a sighted user I find it confusing when I land on something that gets announced as "Clickable, clickable, clickable" when it either is clickable, but all one would have to do is click once, or when it's not clickable at all.  I am also wondering why the phrase "clickable link" gets used for some links while other links don't get the "clickable" designation, and I'm not talking about something that's stippled out.  There seems to be little rhyme or reason to how/when the designation "clickable" gets used and how many times.

As to the multi-clickable announcement, I'll give an example for an object that is not clickable at all for a sighted user.  When I go to the Gmail Settings, General Tab, I eventually can tab myself to the first part of the settings, which is Language.  I will sometimes (and I just now could not replicate even landing there) land on what looks like the label for this group of settings.  It will generally announce "clickable" three times, but there's nothing there that a sighted mouse user can click, and there's no hint as to what might be clickable there.

There are too many buttons and links to mention as I navigate through this page some of which say "clickable" when you land on them and others that do not.  There's got to be a rhyme and reason here, but I cannot easily fathom what it is.  I also think that saying "clickable link" is redundant and, if you have that rare instance where a given link is blocked, it would make more sense to announce that state of oddity than to ever announce that a link that can be clicked is "clickable."
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    




SSH with the new windows Bash Client?

 

Hello,
Has anyone managed to give the new windows bash client a try yet? I am waiting for my update to install. It is a very functional Ubuntu type system and that means that SSH should work.
If that is the case, no more needing to deal with partly accessible SSH clients, we will be able to use the default windows client!
Thanks,


Re: getting rid of the extra verbage in thunderbird

Kevin Cussick
 

better put than I did thanks.

On 19/08/2016 04:20, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Invoke view menu, activate toolbars sub-menu, and turn off quick filter
bar.


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2016-08-19 5:17 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, everyone,


When I shift tab from the inbox, I get something that says "filter
these messages". Is there a way to disable it and go directly to the
treeview?


Thanks in advance for your help.


Rosemarie







Re: getting rid of the extra verbage in thunderbird

Kevin Cussick
 

hit alt and v then go to tool bars quick filter will be checked just hit enter on it and it will fix this. now and again it will come back.

On 19/08/2016 04:17, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, everyone,


When I shift tab from the inbox, I get something that says "filter these
messages". Is there a way to disable it and go directly to the treeview?


Thanks in advance for your help.


Rosemarie



Word "Clickable" - Number of repetitions and what causes it?

 

The following is a question that only the NVDA developers who handle this can answer, but this is as good a place as any to make the inquiry.

Even as a sighted user I find it confusing when I land on something that gets announced as "Clickable, clickable, clickable" when it either is clickable, but all one would have to do is click once, or when it's not clickable at all.  I am also wondering why the phrase "clickable link" gets used for some links while other links don't get the "clickable" designation, and I'm not talking about something that's stippled out.  There seems to be little rhyme or reason to how/when the designation "clickable" gets used and how many times.

As to the multi-clickable announcement, I'll give an example for an object that is not clickable at all for a sighted user.  When I go to the Gmail Settings, General Tab, I eventually can tab myself to the first part of the settings, which is Language.  I will sometimes (and I just now could not replicate even landing there) land on what looks like the label for this group of settings.  It will generally announce "clickable" three times, but there's nothing there that a sighted mouse user can click, and there's no hint as to what might be clickable there.

There are too many buttons and links to mention as I navigate through this page some of which say "clickable" when you land on them and others that do not.  There's got to be a rhyme and reason here, but I cannot easily fathom what it is.  I also think that saying "clickable link" is redundant and, if you have that rare instance where a given link is blocked, it would make more sense to announce that state of oddity than to ever announce that a link that can be clicked is "clickable."
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



Re: setting up imap email

 

Gene,

         Just as an FYI, there appears to be a steady trend away from "the gear icon" being called "Tools" these days, though that was probably the primary designator when its use first appeared.  That's what I recall, anyway.  The trend is now toward "Settings" and it's being used, in various forms but always showing a gear or gears, on multiple operating systems now, too.  The last Mac I was working with used an icon that looked somewhat like the inner workings of an old wind-up type watch, with multiple interlocking gears, for Settings.

          Even Windows 10 itself is using its own variant of the single gear icon for the settings button.   Keeping an ear out for an announcement of tools makes sense, too, but if you hear settings you can be reasonably confident that they're under a control that uses a gear or gears as its iconic presentation.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



Re: setting up imap email

Gene
 

Gear is the picture of the icon.  You don't look for just such a term or description when following instructions for sighted users.  You have to use logic and inference and experimentation to see what is being referred to.  programs routinely use a gear icon for the tools menu.  A sighted person sees a gear.  A blind person hears the word tools because that is text the icon has associated with it.  A sighted person can see the word tools, as far as I know.  But it is routinely referred to as a gear. 
 
The same may be true on various web pages where you have options or perhaps a menus.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] setting up imap email

Hi Brian:


Thanks for that explanation.  I actually investigated this myself and
I pressed the settings button and was able to follow the instructions
given in the Gmail help, but instead of click on a gear, I pressed the
settings button and was able to follow the rest of the instructions as
normal.
Kevin Huber ,

On 8/19/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> NVDA reads the "gear button" as "Settings Menu Button" and will tell you
> "collapsed, submenu" until you activate it.  It also mentions that you've
> landed on "toolbar" when you first hit any of the Google Toolbar buttons, of
> which the Settings Menu Button is only one.
>
> The above presumes that you've already logged in to the Gmail web interface
> for any one of the services that has settings that you as a user are able to
> configure.  Gmail is definitely among those.
>
> Gmail should have IMAP access enabled by default these days, but if an
> account was set up years ago it might not.  If you're trying to use a Gmail
> account in an email client I would simply try setting it up in that client
> first.  Those that can do auto setup will always try IMAP first and if the
> account is not set up to allow IMAP it most likely will fail.  Then you'd
> have to resort to going in to the Gmail account and turning it on.
> --
> Brian
>
> I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never
> enough to keep up.
>          ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in
> the Universe"
>



Re: setting up imap email

Kevin Huber
 

Hi Brian:


Thanks for that explanation. I actually investigated this myself and
I pressed the settings button and was able to follow the instructions
given in the Gmail help, but instead of click on a gear, I pressed the
settings button and was able to follow the rest of the instructions as
normal.
Kevin Huber ,

On 8/19/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
NVDA reads the "gear button" as "Settings Menu Button" and will tell you
"collapsed, submenu" until you activate it. It also mentions that you've
landed on "toolbar" when you first hit any of the Google Toolbar buttons, of
which the Settings Menu Button is only one.

The above presumes that you've already logged in to the Gmail web interface
for any one of the services that has settings that you as a user are able to
configure. Gmail is definitely among those.

Gmail should have IMAP access enabled by default these days, but if an
account was set up years ago it might not. If you're trying to use a Gmail
account in an email client I would simply try setting it up in that client
first. Those that can do auto setup will always try IMAP first and if the
account is not set up to allow IMAP it most likely will fail. Then you'd
have to resort to going in to the Gmail account and turning it on.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never
enough to keep up.
~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in
the Universe"


Re: problem with the newest chrome

Dejan Ristic
 

Allow me to say that I use Windows 7, Ultimate, 64Bit SP1, and the latest version of all the browsers and NVDA.


On 8/19/2016 7:01 PM, Dejan Ristic wrote:

It is possible for me to hear the links in Chrome, but it is impossible to read the lists of the source and target languages in Google Translate via Chrome, though. That's what I have faced when Google chrome has updated itself. I have also tried Opera, but the same goes for it. Then, I have tried Avast! Safe Zone Browser, and it has also failed. Let me conclude that these ones are the Chrome-based engines, and that they sing the same song at the same time.


On 8/19/2016 2:07 PM, P. Otter wrote:

it is right what you write!

no link will be displayed in chrome only in the own settings of chrome!

paul otter




Op 19-8-2016 om 13:50 schreef Artin Dekker:

If I have a link in Chrome NVDA says blank. This happens at every link, not only in search results. The log is:

ERROR - XMLFormatting.XMLTextParser.parse (12:46:30):
XML: <control controlIdentifier_docHandle="1836924" controlIdentifier_ID="-5026" _startOfNode="1" _endOfNode="0" isBlock="1" isHidden="0" _childcount="22" _childcontrolcount="22" _indexInParent="0" _parentChildCount="1" IAccessible2::attribute_explicit-name="true" IAccessible2::attribute_tag="#document" IAccessible2::state_1024="1" IAccessible::role="15" IAccessible::state_1048576="1" IAccessible::state_64="1" keyboardShortcut="" name="Microsoft – Official Home Page" ><control controlIdentifier_docHandle="1836924" controlIdentifier_ID="-5027" _startOfNode="1" _endOfNode="0" isBlock="1" isHidden="0" _childcount="5" _childcontrolcount="4" _indexInParent="0" _parentChildCount="22" IAccessible2::attribute_class="shell-header shell-responsive  global-sticky mobile-view" IAccessible2::attribute_display="block" IAccessible2::attribute_id="shell-header" IAccessible2::attribute_tag="div" IAccessible2::attribute_xml-roles="banner" IAccessible2::state_1024="1" IAccessible::role="1043" keyboardShortcut="" ><control controlIdentifier_docHandle="1836924" controlIdentifier_ID="-5031" _startOfNode="1" _endOfNode="1" isBlock="1" isHidden="0" _childcount="1" _childcontrolcount="1" _indexInParent="0" _parentChildCount="5" IAccessible2::attribute_display="block" IAccessible2::attribute_id="srv_shellHeaderMicrosoftLogo" IAccessible2::attribute_tag="a" IAccessible2::state_1024="1" IAccessible::role="30" IAccessible::state_1048576="1" IAccessible::state_4194304="1" IAccessible::state_8388608="1" IAccessibleAction_Gaan naar="0" description="Microsoft" keyboardShortcut="" ><control controlIdentifier_docHandle="1836924" controlIdentifier_ID="-5035" _startOfNode="1" _endOfNode="1" isBlock="1" isHidden="0" _childcount="1" _childcontrolcount="0" _indexInParent="0" _parentChildCount="1" IAccessible2::attribute_display="block" IAccessible2::attribute_explicit-name="true" IAccessible2::attribute_src="https://assets.onestore.ms/cdnfiles/onestorerolling-1608-09000/shell/v3/images/logo/microsoft.png" IAccessible2::attribute_tag="img" IAccessible2::attribute_xml-roles="img" IAccessible2::state_1024="1" IAccessible::role="40" IAccessible::state_4194304="1" IAccessible::state_64="1" IAccessibleAction_klikken="0" keyboardShortcut="" ><text _startOfNode="1" _endOfNode="1" isBlock="0" isHidden="0" _childcount="0" _childcontrolcount="0" _indexInParent="0" _parentChildCount="1" >Microsoft</text></control></control></control></control>
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "XMLFormatting.pyc", line 60, in parse
ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 1, column 1516


Artin Dekker
Beheerder win10-nl
https://win10-nl.groups.io/g/algemeen
Op 19-8-2016 om 12:01 schreef Gene:
Chrome automatically updates itself and the user can't stop it.  Use Firefox for sites where you have this problem.  It isn't clear to me what the problem is.  Is the problem that when you do a search such as a google search, you don't see the links in the results displayed as clickable links or you don't see the address of the sites in the results showing where the result leads?
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 3:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the newest chrome

One of the things I soon learned was to keep archives of older versions of
software so one could back track if things got broken. For the moment all
you can do is tell  The Chrome team and nvda team about any issues and  back
track to the earlier viersion until its been fixed.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "P. Otter" <pam.otter@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 6:24 PM
Subject: [nvda] problem with the newest chrome


> hello all,
>
> i've a problem with the newest version of chrome.
>
> when i type a search string for example nvda the results will coming up,
> but the link will not be spoken.
>
> what's wrong?
>
> i've allso an older version, but that's a portable version.
>
> when i open this version the results will be spoken allso the links.
>
> what can i do to solve this problem and are there more people who has
> problems like this in chrome?
>
> i was just glad that i could use chrome in nvda.
>
> the same problem comes up when i open youtube after i have search results.
>
> i don't understand why this is changed.
>
> before chrome was working perfectly!
>
> thanks in advance.
>
> paul otter
>
>
>
>
>





.







Re: setting up imap email

 

NVDA reads the "gear button" as "Settings Menu Button" and will tell you "collapsed, submenu" until you activate it.  It also mentions that you've landed on "toolbar" when you first hit any of the Google Toolbar buttons, of which the Settings Menu Button is only one.

The above presumes that you've already logged in to the Gmail web interface for any one of the services that has settings that you as a user are able to configure.  Gmail is definitely among those.

Gmail should have IMAP access enabled by default these days, but if an account was set up years ago it might not.  If you're trying to use a Gmail account in an email client I would simply try setting it up in that client first.  Those that can do auto setup will always try IMAP first and if the account is not set up to allow IMAP it most likely will fail.  Then you'd have to resort to going in to the Gmail account and turning it on.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"