Date   

Re: Access regarding email with quotations and screen readers, NVDA, in this case

 

Dave,

              In playing with NVDA the recommendation about using the comma command to jump out of a block quote to new material works.  I just didn't know it existed.

              Now, mind you, I wish that the various levels of quotation were each considered their own container, and that some command not as yet in existence would only go to the next level out, with the separate comma command allowing you to jump out of the entire set of stacked quotations to the new material (which it does now, but with the block quote, no matter how many levels it contains, treated as a single, atomic container).

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Access regarding email with quotations and screen readers, NVDA, in this case

Dave Grossoehme
 

Good Day:  I'm like you as far as using a computer and reading email for years.  It would seem like you set an item in the screen reader to find the time stamps in the background in order to go to the newest information.  This is just a guest on my part, however, why couldn't something like this be tried.

Dave


On 8/26/2020 2:37 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
I don't know whether this is something NVDA (or any screen reader) should address, or if the issue should be solved elsewhere, but a screen reader then able to pick up the change.

It is very, very common practice for e-mail conversations to take on a "quote, reply, quote, reply, quote, reply" format.  This is all the more true when a very long exchange is taking place, involving multiple participants, and it would be entirely unclear what was being responded to without retaining something from a prior message or messages to set the stage.

In "the old days" of plain text email, quotation was indicated by the presence of the greater than character, >, at the beginning of a line and the number of greater thans indicated how many times something had been quoted, as there are often quotes that quote previous quotes.  While this certainly worked, it was visually very messy as quote depth increased.

Now in the age of HTML e-mail, the use of characters to indicate quotation has gone by the wayside and now visual bars are used in much the same manner.  They're semi-transparent and for each requotation another bar appears, so if someone had quoted someone else who had already quoted someone before them, there would be three bars stacked, to show who quoted what.

In any event, for those of us who can see, we are able to scan the page visually and jump almost instantly to the new material that resides beneath each quote sequence after reading whatever portion of the quoted material they need to in order to get themselves up to speed before reading that new material.

I have never found a way for a screen reader user to do "direct jumps" to new material with a screen reader.  Screen readers don't seem to differentiate in any meaningful way between quoted and fresh material, and give screen reader users a way to jump between chunks of that fresh material when they wish to do so.

Am I missing something?   Is there already a way this can be done with ease?  If there is, I don't know what it is and I have plenty of evidence that most screen reader users don't, either, even those who've been using them for a very, very long time.

If there isn't, is there some roadblock to making a screen reader able to recognize where quoted text ends and new material begins?  Since there has to be something behind the scenes that creates those bar structures that I see, I have to believe that a screen reader has access to that same information, and that it would be relatively simply (note, relatively) to create a keyboard shortcut that causes all quoted material to be skipped and focus thrown to the first word of the unquoted material after it. 

I've been using e-mail since the 1980s, and I can say without question that the custom in the blind community of putting all new content at the top is not even close to universal.  And given how well a "quote response quote response" format is for sighted email users, it's never going to go away.  It seems there should be some way for screen reader users to do the rough equivalent of reading whatever part of the quoted material they might wish, but after having heard it being able to jump instantly past any that follows where they've stopped and go straight to the new material beneath the quote.

I know that there are a number of regulars here who are NVDA developers, add-on developers, or similarly positioned to have a lot of insight about this, so I'm asking.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


NVDA not able to install completely and gives error

Mohd. Ahtesham Shaikh
 

Dear all,
Hope all are fine.
I am facing an issue with NVDA.
Suddenly NVDA stopped working and I tried installing it again.
After installation I am hearing jaws say NVDA is not responding and
there is a blank dialogue box appearing at the center of the screen.
I tried re-installing several times after completely uninstalling but
does not work.
Is there any solution to this problem.
I am using Windows 10 on 64 bit I3 laptop.



Thanks,

Ahtesham


--
Mohd. Ahtesham
From India
Using Windows 8.1 at home and windows 10 pro in office


Re: Zoom Enhancements Addon for NVDA

Eilana Benish
 

Hello David

you can read the email thread from the 28.08.2020

So please be aware of what you are implying before testing the add-on

 

 

 

ובכבוד רב | Sincerely,

אילנה בניש מורשה נגישות שירות 2200 | Eilana Benish, service Accessibility authorized (2200)

ניהול פרויקטים – נגישות ושמישות אינטרנט וטכנולוגיות מידע  | Projects manager – Accessibility & usability on internet and ICT

📱 +972-50-7100367 | 📧 benish.ilana@...  

נכתב על ידי David Goldfield, ב־30/08/2020 בשעה 09:24:

I was browsing Facebook and saw an announcement about a new addon for the NVDA screen reader which promises some additional functionality when using Zoom. I offer the following caveats.


1. I don't know if this particular addon has been vetted by the NVDA community. This doesn't in any way mean that the addon is harmful.

2. While I do use the NVDA screen reader I have not yet tested this addon and so I cannot offer any support or feedback as to its usefulness.

3. Because of this I am not endorsing this addon and so I am not responsible if it does have any negative side effects on your machine or when using Zoom.

Here is an extract from the Github page where this addon is located, along with a URL to obtain it.


Zoom Accessibility enhancements add-on for NVDA
By: Mohamad Suliman and Eilana Benish

This add-on will improve the experience of using Zoom for NVDA users by providing keyboard shortcuts to Handle alerts for Different events While In a meeting, make the process of remote control much more accessible and smoother, and more...

keyboard shortcuts for controlling alerts In meetings
NVDA + Shift + A: cycles between different modes of reporting alerts. The following modes are available:
Report all alerts mode, where all alerts are reported as usual
Beep for alerts, where NVDA will play a short beep for every alert displayed in Zoom
Silence all alerts, where NVDA will ignore all alerts
Custom mode, Where the user can customize which alerts they want to have and which not. This can be done using the settings dialog of the add-on, or by using the dedicated keyboard shortcuts for that
The following shortcuts can be used to toggle on / off the announcements of each type of alert (note that this will be effective when custom mode is selected):

NVDA + Ctrl + 1: Participant Has Joined/Left Meeting (Host Only)
NVDA + Ctrl + 2: Participant Has Joined/Left Waiting Room (Host Only)
NVDA + Ctrl + 3: Audio Muted by Host
NVDA + Ctrl + 4: Video Stopped by Host
NVDA + Ctrl + 5: Screen Sharing Started/Stopped by a Participant
NVDA + Ctrl + 6: Recording Permission Granted/Revoked
NVDA + Ctrl + 7: Public In-meeting Chat Received
NVDA + Ctrl + 8: Private In-meeting Chat Received
NVDA + Ctrl + 9: In-meeting File Upload Completed
NVDA + Ctrl + 0: Host Privilege Granted/Revoked
NVDA + Shift + Ctrl + 1: Participant Has Raised/Lowered Hand (Host Only)
NVDA + Shift + Ctrl + 2: Remote Control Permission Granted/Revoked
NVDA + Shift + Ctrl + 3: IM chat message received
Note that you need to leave reporting all alert types selected (in Zoom accessibility settings) to have the add-on function as expected.

Keyboard shortcut for Opening add on Dialogue
NVDA + Z Opens the add-on dialog !

Using this dialog you can :

See which alerts are announced and which aren't
Select the types of the alerts you want to be announced
Choose alerts reporting mode
Save custom changes
Remote control
after a remote control permission is granted, NVDA + O will move the focus in /Out of the remote controlled screen

Note that the focus should be on one of the meeting controls to be able to remote control the other screen

About
An add-on for NVDA screen reader to enhance the experience while using Zoom
https://github.com/mohammad-suliman/zoom-enhancements


Re: Looking for a *very specific* method of captioning

 

I don't even think you would be able to do this, in any meaningful way, if you're talking about NVDA in continuous speech mode reading sentences.  If I list were being read, where there was sufficient time to present and remove each word in caption, it could work.  It's not going to work at any speech rate that approximates natural speech.  You couldn't even consciously register individual words that would flash that briefly.  It would be like the experiments decades ago on subliminal suggestion.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Looking for a *very specific* method of captioning

Jesse Farquharson
 

Hello folks.

So, I'm looking to start something, and what I want to do is have the speech NVDA outputs captioned. I want it to overlay a video, but rather than traditional captions (remaining on screen until whatever is being spoken is finished), I want each word to appear on screen, then disappear, one by one, as they're spoken. I'm assuming this is pretty far out. I'm assuming no one will be able to advise me on something this safisticated, but I thought I'd try asking anyway.

Any help would be appreciated.


Re: issues with quick nav of thunderbird and NVDA

David Goldfield
 

>Where do I find this add-on?


You can find the addon at the above link.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 9/1/2020 9:55 AM, Hettie wrote:

Where do I find this add-on? I tried the add-on page but couldn't find it.


Hettie.


On 2020/08/31 10:54 pm, David Goldfield wrote:

This interests me because I also notice similar behavior with version 3.0 of this addon. The addon appears to work as expected until I restart TB. Upon restarting TB the addon is still enabled but the addon itself acts as if it has been disabled. First letter navigation does not move to the relevant folder and the addon's option does not appear in the context menu. If I go into addon settings and disable the addon and then enable it the addon works properly once again until I close and restart TB. I wrote to the addon author who was unable to reproduce the issue. I then asked about it on the Thunderbird support list and was given a suggestion which didn't work for me. I have reinstalled TB as well as removed and then reinstalled the addon.


David Goldfield,
Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

www.davidgoldfield.org
On 8/31/2020 3:40 PM, Dan Beaver wrote:

Yeah, but with the newest version there are still issues.  I have to go in and disable and then

re-enable the extension every time I bring up Thunderbird.


I wish someone could do something about it because it is getting irritating. ;)


Dan Beaver

On 8/31/2020 2:41 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Bob,

          I would uninstall and reinstall Quick Folder Navigation if the version you have went in a long while ago.  There have been some recent updates related to compatibility with the more recent versions of Thunderbird.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 

-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: issues with quick nav of thunderbird and NVDA

David Goldfield
 

What is odd is that this addon began working a bit more consistently when my installation of Thunderbird updated to V78.2.1. In fact, it was working so consistently that I thought that the issue was completely resolved, even though the release notes provided no obvious references to this type of problem. However, at some point the addon failed to work again. After going into Addon Options and looking at the addon's options it suddenly started working again even though I made no changes to any of the settings. I am at a loss to explain this and, as I wrote in a previous message in this thread, the developer of this addon cannot reproduce this issue.



David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 9/1/2020 12:03 PM, Hettie wrote:

No, I forgot that is a TB add-on. Thanks, you saved my sanity!


Hettie

On 2020/09/01 4:20 pm, Dan Beaver wrote:

Did you search for it under add-on manager in Thunderbird?  It isn't an NVDA add-on.


Dan Beaver

On 9/1/2020 9:55 AM, Hettie wrote:

Where do I find this add-on? I tried the add-on page but couldn't find it.


Hettie.


On 2020/08/31 10:54 pm, David Goldfield wrote:

This interests me because I also notice similar behavior with version 3.0 of this addon. The addon appears to work as expected until I restart TB. Upon restarting TB the addon is still enabled but the addon itself acts as if it has been disabled. First letter navigation does not move to the relevant folder and the addon's option does not appear in the context menu. If I go into addon settings and disable the addon and then enable it the addon works properly once again until I close and restart TB. I wrote to the addon author who was unable to reproduce the issue. I then asked about it on the Thunderbird support list and was given a suggestion which didn't work for me. I have reinstalled TB as well as removed and then reinstalled the addon.


David Goldfield,
Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

www.davidgoldfield.org
On 8/31/2020 3:40 PM, Dan Beaver wrote:

Yeah, but with the newest version there are still issues.  I have to go in and disable and then

re-enable the extension every time I bring up Thunderbird.


I wish someone could do something about it because it is getting irritating. ;)


Dan Beaver

On 8/31/2020 2:41 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Bob,

          I would uninstall and reinstall Quick Folder Navigation if the version you have went in a long while ago.  There have been some recent updates related to compatibility with the more recent versions of Thunderbird.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 

-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)

Virus-free. www.avg.com
-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


NVDA mouse tracking problem

 

Checkbox, radio button, and buttons on the web page are not sporting with the rabbit 

i using NVDA20.2
and 
win10 pro 2004
help me to all 


Re: Extra verbosity in Thunderbird

Robert Logue
 

Yes Gene. I did try turning report dynamic content changes off but it did not help.


Bob

On 2020-09-01 11:41 a.m., Gene wrote:
The only thing I can think of that might possibly work is to turn report dynamic content changes off, though I'm just about sure it won't help to turn it off.  But you can try.  The toggle is NVDA key 5 on the main keyboard.

Of course, you could downgrade to a version of the program that doesn't have the problem.  You could get the portable version so you could leave your current installation undisturbed and update it to see if the problem is solved while continuing to use the portable version.  I suspect that this may be an Aria live region but I am not aware that NVDA has a setting to turn reading of live regions off.  It should.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Logue
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 11:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Extra verbosity in Thunderbird

I tried turning off everything I could find that might stop the extra
speech in both Thunderbird and NVDA settings.  I unchecked just about
everything I thought was relevant including status bar.


I tried using screen review mode to find the notification style text
being spoken. No luck there.


What other tools does NVDA have to control this kind of verbosity in
programs?


Bob



On 2020-08-31 1:07 p.m., Hope Williamson wrote:
Yeah I have the same issue. It's pretty annoying. Especially when it
keeps saying downloading however many messages. I tried turning off the
status bar thing, and it still does it.






Re: Extra verbosity in Thunderbird

Hope Williamson
 

I did find that. For me it was under the toolbar submenu. I tried to uncheck it and couldn't while I was inside the message window. It's already unchecked while I'm outside the message window.


Re: Extra verbosity in Thunderbird

Hope Williamson
 

I'm also on 68.12.0. I won't update to 78 until it automatically puts me
there.


Re: Extra verbosity in Thunderbird

Gene
 

In the view menu, is a submenu called Status Bars.  Press enter on it and look through the items.  You will find what you are looking for.


Gene

On 9/1/2020 2:51 PM, Hope Williamson wrote:
For some reason I can't remember how to turn off status bars, nor do I
know where to go to turn them off in the message window. Can someone
explain? Thanks!!


Re: Extra verbosity in Thunderbird

Hope Williamson
 

For some reason I can't remember how to turn off status bars, nor do I
know where to go to turn them off in the message window. Can someone
explain? Thanks!!


Re: Work with audio editors in professional way with Nvda possible or not?

CARLOS-ESTEBAN <carlosestebanpianista@...>
 

I am agree with the use of Reaper. If you install Osara, you can use this very Good program.

I am also use Audacity, and if you go to use Gold Wave, you can install the NVDA Add-on Gold Wave from Josef Lee.

A developer have an addon no official for Audacity (Audacity Access Enhancement’s).

Regards.

 

 

Enviado desde Correo para Windows 10

NVDA certified expert 2019

 

De: Luke Davis
Enviado: martes, 1 de septiembre de 2020 11:11
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [nvda] Work with audio editors in professional way with Nvda possible or not?

 

Certainly. I use Audacity for moderate projects, but the thing you should be

looking into is Reaper.

 

Luke

 

 

 


Re: VPN services accessible with NVDA using Google Chrome or Firefox under Windows 10

Stephen
 

I don't know about proton-VPN, but I would imagine it would.
 
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Clark <dennis@...>
Sent: 9/2/2020 3:29:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] VPN services accessible with NVDA using Google Chrome or Firefox under Windows 10

Hello Stephen,

This is very encouraging. Do you know if openVPN works with other VPN services such as protonVPN? I will take a look on the expressVPN website about using it with their service.

Dennis


On 8/29/2020 5:33 PM, Stephen wrote:
You don't have to use the expressVPN control panel, you can actually use open VPN.
There are some instructions on how to do this on the express VPN website after you log in.
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Giles Turnbull <giles.turnbull@...>
Sent: 8/29/2020 11:40:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] VPN services accessible with NVDA using Google Chrome or Firefox under Windows 10

I subscribed to Express VPN for a year when I knew I'd be using a university wifi during the 2018/19 academic year. I found it bvarely useable with NVDA ... none of its buttons were labeled. I did figure out which button activated the VPN but in the end I gave up! If I recall, object navigation was necessary even to find the buttons.

Giles


Re: VPN services accessible with NVDA using Google Chrome or Firefox under Windows 10

Stephen
 

IF you don't like express vpn's interface, you can use open-VPN with it instead.
There are some instructions on how to use it on express vpn's website.
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Clark <dennis@...>
Sent: 9/2/2020 3:25:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] VPN services accessible with NVDA using Google Chrome or Firefox under Windows 10

Hello Giles,

This is very helpful information. This is one of the most popular VPN services, but I am not surprised that its ap may be a problem. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Dennis


On 8/29/2020 6:40 AM, Giles Turnbull wrote:
I subscribed to Express VPN for a year when I knew I'd be using a university wifi during the 2018/19 academic year. I found it bvarely useable with NVDA ... none of its buttons were labeled. I did figure out which button activated the VPN but in the end I gave up! If I recall, object navigation was necessary even to find the buttons.

Giles


Re: Extra verbosity in Thunderbird

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

There is no automatic update from 68 to 78 for thunderbird. That will be released in a few weeks. With other words there is currently no update process from 68 to 78 with keeping the 68 configuration.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Dienstag, 1. September 2020 19:24
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Extra verbosity in Thunderbird

 

Well, then the folks at Tbird have the most bizarre release channel I've ever dealt with.  I've been on release channel for years, with automatic updating, and if I go to the Help, About dialog (ALT+H,A), I watch the check being done and am told that Thunderbird is up to date.  I am on 68.12.0 32-bit.

That's one heck of a primary version jump, from 68 to 78, so I can't explain it if it's not the beta channel, unless we're talking 64-bit, which the folks at Tbird used to recommend you not use, I believe.  It gets confusing when you've had something on a given machine for a long period of time.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Extra verbosity in Thunderbird

Gene
 

For awhile, version 78.x was available on the web site but that version wasn't distributed through the updater. I don't know why it was offered on the nonbeta part of the web site but not to the downloader. I even saw something somewhere on the mozilla site saying that that was the case so it wasn't an oversight. I don't know what the updater is offering now.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Kostadin Kolev
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 12:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Extra verbosity in Thunderbird



Hello Brian,

Actually, the stable version 78 of Thunderbird has been released for a while now. I'm using it and in its "About" box it states that I'm on the "release" channel. I've updated it manually from v68 to v78 though. If I'm not mistaking, the automatic update will offer v78 when v78.2 is released, which happened recently. But I haven't heard from my friends that use Thunderbird that their version has updated to v78. That doesn't mean that it hasn't - it only means that they haven't told me yet if it did or not. Furthermore, when I now went to Thunderbird's website and clicked on the download link, the version offered there was 78.2.1. So, Thunderbird 78 stable has definitely been released to the public.


______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

На 1.9.2020 г. в 19:41, Brian Vogel написа:
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 06:40 PM, Governor staten wrote:
I'm running Thunderbird 78.2.0, and have same issues.-
And if this version number is correct, then you're not on the release update channel, which is at 68.12.0, but the beta channel, which can have a raft of issues that the release channel does not, or have fixed issues that the release channel still has.

One can determine what channel they're on using ALT+H,A to bring up the About Thunderbird dialog. Right after the part where your version number is shown, and the status message regarding whether you're at the most recent update or have one pending, is a line that reads, "You are on the release update channel," where release will be "beta" instead if you're using the beta channel.

This issue had definitely been resolved, at one point, and there is a topic on here that I'm sure will contain the keywords "Thunderbird verbosity" besides this one that cover the back and forth or resolve it. I filed issues on this one, and it isn't truly ancient history, at least not yet.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

~ Oscar Wilde


Re: Extra verbosity in Thunderbird

Gene
 

Good. then you don't have to experiment with my idea, which I was very skeptical would work.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Logue
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 11:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Extra verbosity in Thunderbird



Hi Kostadin. Thanks for the info about status bars in different areas of Thunderbird. I just turned it off in the message reading window. This fixed my verbosity problem.




I have not reported to Mozilla so far.




Bob









On 2020-08-31 1:26 p.m., Kostadin Kolev wrote:


Hello all,

I also have the status bar of Thunderbird showing in the program's main window and I don't observe the described behavior. But I'm reading messages from the main window of Thunderbird (via the message list and the message pane). Most screen reader users seam to read messages in a separate window. And we come to the main thing here - the option to show/hide the status bar in Thunderbird is independent for the separate Thunderbird windows like the main window, the optional separate window for message reading, the message composer window, etc. So, if you've disabled the status bar from within Thunderbird's main window, it will not affect its behavior for the message reading window and it will probably still be visible in it. And if you're reading messages from within that message reading window, this may be why you still hear those messages - the status bar is still shown for the message reading window.

Mind you, this automatic speaking of status bar messages should not be happening even with the status bar shown It was fixed for the main window of Thunderbird, but not for the other windows like the ones for message reading and for composing a message. This should be reported to and fixed by the Thunderbird developers. Has anyone done that? If not, I may do it these days. The only place that I find this automatic speaking of status bar messages useful is in the a"Advanced Search" window, where thanks to those messages I know the status of the performed search, without needing to manually read the status bar.


______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

На 31.8.2020 г. в 22:07, Hope Williamson написа:
Yeah I have the same issue. It's pretty annoying. Especially when it
keeps saying downloading however many messages. I tried turning off the
status bar thing, and it still does it.

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