Date   

Checking file size in the "Properties" dialog using NVDA

Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  How do I check the file size listed in the "Properties" dialog with NVDA?  It was possible to navigate to it with JAWS using the "JAWS" or "invisible" cursors.  When I use the similar NVDA reading commands for reading in scan mode, the only thing that is read is the text of the control with system focus, which is usually the "read-only" checkbox that appears when the "Properties" dialog is first opened.

Thanks,

Louise


In-Process for 7th September is out

Quentin Christensen
 

In-process is out, this week with news on the upcoming NVDACon, a new accessible graphs project, a space-themed accessible RPG and some general tips on making software accessible: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-7th-september-2020/

Regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: OCR

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

I just completed a little test and compared KNFB-reader with Finereader 11
reading an image of a page scanned on my Canon scanner.

The KNFB-Reader seemed the slikcest but it failed to distinguish last "r" of
"return" showing it as "retun".

I ran Finereader in batch mode choosing "Convert to Word" and all words came
out perfectly first time!

One up for Fimereader!
,

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cearbhall
O'Meadhra
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 10:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

Thanks, Martin, I'll give that a go!


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marten Post
Uiterweer
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 8:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

Cearbhall,
You can also go to the list where you will find a list of page numbers.
1, 2 etc. The pages you have scanned.
Press contextkey or shift-f10 on a digit and chose: save pages to or
something.
Ctrl-tab and tab are keys to use in finereader. Maybe sw3itch to an othere
program with alt-tab and back to finereader.

Regards, marten


On Sun, 6 Sep 2020 17:08:12 +0100 "Rui Fontes" <rui.fontes@tiflotecnia.com>
wrote:

Hello!


Firstly, I didn't said that FineReader was fully accessible!

I just asked what was the problem with the acessibility of the menus...


Regarding the Editor window it is somehow accessible, but it is a
strange
window...

I have tried with a document, recognized almost completly correct to
TXT
format, but with errors on the Editor window... And trying to correct in
that window is not possible...

By instance, in the Editor appears M RIA instead of MARIA, and I was
unable to correct it...


After the recognition, press Control Tab and then Shift Control Tab...
Maybe not the first time, but you will land in a edit area...


Rui Fontes



Às 16:40 de 06/09/2020, Cearbhall O'Meadhra escreveu:
Hi, Rui,

I am using FineReader 11 because I recognised its value as an OCR
machine. The menus are perfectly accessible. However I cannot browse the
document resulting from OCR nor can I make any edits to the document. The
editor does not seem to be accessible. As you do find this program to be
fully accessible, could you suggest how I might use the editor and view my
pages in FineReader with NVDA?


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e:
cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui
Fontes
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 12:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

What accessibility problems with FineReader menus?

I am using FineReader 14, and I have already installed FineReader 15
for
costummers, and didn't notice any accessibility problems with the menus...


Rui Fontes


Às 08:29 de 06/09/2020, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well there are accessibility issues with the menus on abbyy.

Yeah textcloner pro uses the iris engine.

I only need ocr for the occasional bill or other typed document.

I have knfb reader for some other stuff, and for the rest if
balabolka or codex can't read it then they are probably not worth
my
time.

I do hope that they do get this fixed.

I have not invested in omnipage as such but still.

Even though I emailed finereader support well abbyy support about
this issue with menus and delays in nvda, it appears that they
never
fixed it.

It took ages till I even got an update and then I asked support
about my access fixes only to be told they were not completed.

You'd think they would actually, 1. give a higher priority to get
those fixed and also update sooner.

In sort I really want a program that is reliable and has good support.

As for omnipage, its not even owned by nuance.

Aparently the best abbyy version is v12 but while yes I have my
registration code I no longer have links that work for old abbyy 12.



On 6/09/2020 7:19 pm, Gene wrote:
Why are you disappointed? Also, unless this has changed, Text
Cloner didn't use as good OCR engines. It had two major selling
points, one that it is a very simple program and very easy to use,
and two, that it is inexpensive. In today's environment, I'm not
sure either carachteristic matters much any more and if the
program is still more simple, it may not be worth giving up the
added accuracy of products like Fine Reader and Omnipage. Those
are questions those who use newer versions of these programs will
have to discuss to get current information because things can
change
so much and so fast in programs.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2020 9:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR






Well good I brought text cloner when I did then.

Its not been updated since 2011 but yeah, at least I have
textcloner now.

I am quite disappointed with abbyyy and their latest finereader
product.

I do use ocr and scanning but not as much as I usually did.

Interestingly when I checked you can still buy the product with
paypal.

The company you buy from seems to be something completely
different but I am happy I got the program.

I don't use something like this to continuously update anyway.







On 6/09/2020 3:30 am, Robert Logue wrote:


I was going to try Text Cloner Pro but the company seems to be closed.


Text Cloner Pro - Premier AT Home




Start downloading link takes me a log in page with no option to join.




Emailed support and they said they are permanently closed.
Actually said"Sorry we are pertinently closed Does pertinently
mean temporary due to Covid:?I attached their reply.





I'm on vacation so will try the support number I found in another
message.


Text cloner support
1-888-514-9117





http://www.premierathome.com/products/TextClonerPro.php




I hope I can get it but I haven't even had a chance to try it. My
experience with ABBY in the past wasn't so good.





Bob


On 2020-01-08 4:43 p.m., Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:
?
i use abby


----- Original Message ----- From: Quentin Christensen
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 7:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] OCR

Good morning,

Has anyone compared OCR software lately? I had someone ask about
Omnipage 20. I know a few people use Abbyy Finereader, but I
wasn't sure how they compare or what other options are out there
currently.

Kind regards

Quentin.



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus




Re: OCR

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Thanks, Martin, I'll give that a go!


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marten Post
Uiterweer
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 8:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

Cearbhall,
You can also go to the list where you will find a list of page numbers.
1, 2 etc. The pages you have scanned.
Press contextkey or shift-f10 on a digit and chose: save pages to or
something.
Ctrl-tab and tab are keys to use in finereader. Maybe sw3itch to an othere
program with alt-tab and back to finereader.

Regards, marten


On Sun, 6 Sep 2020 17:08:12 +0100 "Rui Fontes" <rui.fontes@tiflotecnia.com>
wrote:

Hello!


Firstly, I didn't said that FineReader was fully accessible!

I just asked what was the problem with the acessibility of the menus...


Regarding the Editor window it is somehow accessible, but it is a strange
window...

I have tried with a document, recognized almost completly correct to TXT
format, but with errors on the Editor window... And trying to correct in
that window is not possible...

By instance, in the Editor appears M RIA instead of MARIA, and I was
unable to correct it...


After the recognition, press Control Tab and then Shift Control Tab...
Maybe not the first time, but you will land in a edit area...


Rui Fontes



Às 16:40 de 06/09/2020, Cearbhall O'Meadhra escreveu:
Hi, Rui,

I am using FineReader 11 because I recognised its value as an OCR
machine. The menus are perfectly accessible. However I cannot browse the
document resulting from OCR nor can I make any edits to the document. The
editor does not seem to be accessible. As you do find this program to be
fully accessible, could you suggest how I might use the editor and view my
pages in FineReader with NVDA?


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e:
cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui
Fontes
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 12:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

What accessibility problems with FineReader menus?

I am using FineReader 14, and I have already installed FineReader 15 for
costummers, and didn't notice any accessibility problems with the menus...


Rui Fontes


Às 08:29 de 06/09/2020, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well there are accessibility issues with the menus on abbyy.

Yeah textcloner pro uses the iris engine.

I only need ocr for the occasional bill or other typed document.

I have knfb reader for some other stuff, and for the rest if
balabolka or codex can't read it then they are probably not worth my
time.

I do hope that they do get this fixed.

I have not invested in omnipage as such but still.

Even though I emailed finereader support well abbyy support about
this issue with menus and delays in nvda, it appears that they never
fixed it.

It took ages till I even got an update and then I asked support
about my access fixes only to be told they were not completed.

You'd think they would actually, 1. give a higher priority to get
those fixed and also update sooner.

In sort I really want a program that is reliable and has good support.

As for omnipage, its not even owned by nuance.

Aparently the best abbyy version is v12 but while yes I have my
registration code I no longer have links that work for old abbyy 12.



On 6/09/2020 7:19 pm, Gene wrote:
Why are you disappointed? Also, unless this has changed, Text
Cloner didn't use as good OCR engines. It had two major selling
points, one that it is a very simple program and very easy to use,
and two, that it is inexpensive. In today's environment, I'm not
sure either carachteristic matters much any more and if the
program is still more simple, it may not be worth giving up the
added accuracy of products like Fine Reader and Omnipage. Those
are questions those who use newer versions of these programs will
have to discuss to get current information because things can change
so much and so fast in programs.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2020 9:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR






Well good I brought text cloner when I did then.

Its not been updated since 2011 but yeah, at least I have
textcloner now.

I am quite disappointed with abbyyy and their latest finereader
product.

I do use ocr and scanning but not as much as I usually did.

Interestingly when I checked you can still buy the product with
paypal.

The company you buy from seems to be something completely
different but I am happy I got the program.

I don't use something like this to continuously update anyway.







On 6/09/2020 3:30 am, Robert Logue wrote:


I was going to try Text Cloner Pro but the company seems to be closed.


Text Cloner Pro - Premier AT Home




Start downloading link takes me a log in page with no option to join.




Emailed support and they said they are permanently closed.
Actually said"Sorry we are pertinently closed Does pertinently
mean temporary due to Covid:?I attached their reply.





I'm on vacation so will try the support number I found in another
message.


Text cloner support
1-888-514-9117





http://www.premierathome.com/products/TextClonerPro.php




I hope I can get it but I haven't even had a chance to try it. My
experience with ABBY in the past wasn't so good.





Bob


On 2020-01-08 4:43 p.m., Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:
?
i use abby


----- Original Message ----- From: Quentin Christensen
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 7:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] OCR

Good morning,

Has anyone compared OCR software lately? I had someone ask about
Omnipage 20. I know a few people use Abbyy Finereader, but I
wasn't sure how they compare or what other options are out there
currently.

Kind regards

Quentin.



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus




Re: I had a good scare

Arlene
 

Hi Luke, I hit windows M to get to the desktop. It would not come up. So I went to windows X there I found it I hit enter and I was taken to the desktop.  If it happens again. I’ll just hit windows x and there you will find it.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Luke Davis
Sent: September 5, 2020 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I had a good scare

 

Are you saying that Windows+D or Windows+M would not take you to the desktop?

 

Or are you saying that you had no icons on your desktop, but you could actually

get to the desktop?

 

 

On Sat, 5 Sep 2020, Arlene wrote:

 

> Hi list: Tonight when I took a windows update, I had a real scare! I had no desktop icon.  When I hit windows X I snooped around in there and there I found

> desktop. I hit it and the Icon came back. If that happens to you you hit windows x arrow around until you find it.When you hear desktop, hit enter and you

> are there.  Hit start menue to make sure you have the icon and it will be there.  Then you will find your desktop icon.

 

 

 


Re: OCR

Arlene
 

Kurzweil when I had windows 7. I haven’t installed it on my win ten laptop. Not sure what version I have. I don’t think it will work on this machine.  It did work on my win 7 box.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: September 6, 2020 12:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

 

I haven't tried Kurzweil for many years.  If they are still updating the OCR

in the program, it should be roughly equivalent, as I found it to be in the

past.  I don't know how you might intend to use the program but it isn't

worth spending about 1,000 dollars unless you specifically intend to use

features other than the OCR in Kurzweil.  Its been a long time since I

looked at price information for Omnipage and Fine Reader but they are much

less expensive, being off the shelf programs and not having to amortize

their development costs over a very small user base.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Bhavya shah

Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2020 5:48 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

 

Dear all,

 

I have mostly seen comments on Omnipage and Fine Reader so far. What

do you think about Kurzweil and how does its accuracy and feature set

compare with these? Thoughts appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

On 9/5/20, Robert Logue <bobcat11@...> wrote:

> I was going to try Text Cloner Pro but the company seems to be closed.

> Text Cloner Pro - Premier AT Home

> Start downloading link takes me a log in page with no option to join.

> Emailed support and they said they are permanently closed. Actually

> said"Sorry we are pertinently  closed  Does pertinently mean temporary

> due to Covid:?I attached their reply.

> I'm on vacation so will try the support number I found in another message.

> Text cloner support

> 1-888-514-9117

> http://www.premierathome.com/products/TextClonerPro.php

> I hope I can get it but I haven't even had a chance to try it. My

> experience with ABBY in the past wasn't so good.

> Bob

> On 2020-01-08 4:43 p.m., Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:

>> 

>> i use abby

>> 

>>     ----- Original Message -----

>>     *From:* Quentin Christensen <mailto:quentin@...>

>>     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>     *Sent:* Wednesday, January 8, 2020 7:19 PM

>>     *Subject:* [nvda] OCR

>> 

>>     Good morning,

>> 

>>     Has anyone compared OCR software lately?   I had someone ask about

>>     Omnipage 20.  I know a few people use Abbyy Finereader, but I

>>     wasn't sure how they compare or what other options are out there

>>     currently.

>> 

>>     Kind regards

>> 

>>     Quentin.

>> 

>>     --

>>     Quentin Christensen

>>     Training and Support Manager

>> 

>>     Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>

>>     Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

>>     Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/

>>     User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda

>>     Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess

>>     Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>

>> 

>> 

 

 

--

Best Regards

Bhavya Shah

Stanford University | Class of 2024

E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@...

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/

 

 

 

 

 


Re: weird stuff happening with NVDA add ons

Tony Ballou
 

Hi Luke,

 

Good to hear from you man, to answer the ASB question, absolutely. That was where we met and hung out. I taught for a few more years and switched to doing tech work in 2007. The zoom add on did eventually installed properly. The only other one that’s not working was the one that could read captions.  I believe it came from the blindie tech list. Since I tried it last month, I don’t know if NVDA keeps the old logs from that far back. I will test it again if I can find the link to the message in it and try a re-install with the add ons disabled.  If it doesn’t work, I’ll be sure to send you the log. 

 

Tony      

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Luke Davis
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 2:31 AM
To: Nvda List
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird stuff happening with NVDA add ons

 

Tony

"latest versions" is a bit nebulous, but I will assume you mean you are
using NVDA 2020.2 and Windows 10 version 2004.

That given: what add-ons have you tried, and where did you get them?

Perhaps more importantly, have you tried to install these add-ons after first
restarting NVDA with add-ons disabled?

If so, can you set your log to debugging, and send it to me off list?
(%temp%\nvda-old.log is the file for the previous NVDA session, %temp%\nvda.log
is the log from the active session.)

Btw, didn't you used to work in the computer lab at ASB many years ago? I
knew you from stuff I used to do in the same building, think we hung out a few
times.

Luke

On Sat, 5 Sep 2020, Tony Ballou wrote:

>
> Howdy folks,
>
>  
>
> For some reason each time I try to install a new add on, I’m getting an add on failed to install error.  Any ideas why this is going down?  Never had this
> problem before and am using the latest versions of windows 10 and NVDA. Thanks.

 


Re: Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

Gene
 

I said that I didn't know what the case is with apps. I don't know if accessibility is defined differently, but Thunderbird is an application, not an app.

I tried to find what the current definition of accessibility is in terms of blind people to see if their is now a distinction between applications and apps but I didn't find anything. I'm not saying you are wrong in terms of apps. I don't know. I am saying that in terms of applications, I am using the standard definition.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2020 2:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

Gene,

I'll agree with the "using simulated mouse" part, but not object navigation part. It makes no sense to separate that out from "accessible" it's just another way the keyboard is used in the current Windows ecosystem to get to things. And it's probably going to become far more common, not less, and one will look quite foolish if you insist on calling things accessed by object navigation "inaccessible."

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

~ Oscar Wilde


Re: OCR

Marten Post Uiterweer
 

Cearbhall,
You can also go to the list where you will find a list of page numbers.
1, 2 etc. The pages you have scanned.
Press contextkey or shift-f10 on a digit and chose: save pages to or
something.
Ctrl-tab and tab are keys to use in finereader. Maybe sw3itch to an
othere program with alt-tab and back to finereader.

Regards, marten


On Sun, 6 Sep 2020 17:08:12 +0100 "Rui Fontes" <rui.fontes@tiflotecnia.com> wrote:

Hello!


Firstly, I didn't said that FineReader was fully accessible!

I just asked what was the problem with the acessibility of the menus...


Regarding the Editor window it is somehow accessible, but it is a strange window...

I have tried with a document, recognized almost completly correct to TXT format, but with errors on the Editor window... And trying to correct in that window is not possible...

By instance, in the Editor appears M RIA instead of MARIA, and I was unable to correct it...


After the recognition, press Control Tab and then Shift Control Tab... Maybe not the first time, but you will land in a edit area...


Rui Fontes



Às 16:40 de 06/09/2020, Cearbhall O'Meadhra escreveu:
Hi, Rui,

I am using FineReader 11 because I recognised its value as an OCR machine. The menus are perfectly accessible. However I cannot browse the document resulting from OCR nor can I make any edits to the document. The editor does not seem to be accessible. As you do find this program to be fully accessible, could you suggest how I might use the editor and view my pages in FineReader with NVDA?


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 12:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

What accessibility problems with FineReader menus?

I am using FineReader 14, and I have already installed FineReader 15 for costummers, and didn't notice any accessibility problems with the menus...


Rui Fontes


Às 08:29 de 06/09/2020, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well there are accessibility issues with the menus on abbyy.

Yeah textcloner pro uses the iris engine.

I only need ocr for the occasional bill or other typed document.

I have knfb reader for some other stuff, and for the rest if balabolka
or codex can't read it then they are probably not worth my time.

I do hope that they do get this fixed.

I have not invested in omnipage as such but still.

Even though I emailed finereader support well abbyy support about this
issue with menus and delays in nvda, it appears that they never fixed it.

It took ages till I even got an update and then I asked support about
my access fixes only to be told they were not completed.

You'd think they would actually, 1. give a higher priority to get
those fixed and also update sooner.

In sort I really want a program that is reliable and has good support.

As for omnipage, its not even owned by nuance.

Aparently the best abbyy version is v12 but while yes I have my
registration code I no longer have links that work for old abbyy 12.



On 6/09/2020 7:19 pm, Gene wrote:
Why are you disappointed? Also, unless this has changed, Text Cloner
didn't use as good OCR engines. It had two major selling points, one
that it is a very simple program and very easy to use, and two, that
it is inexpensive. In today's environment, I'm not sure either
carachteristic matters much any more and if the program is still more
simple, it may not be worth giving up the added accuracy of products
like Fine Reader and Omnipage. Those are questions those who use
newer versions of these programs will have to discuss to get current
information because things can change so much and so fast in programs.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2020 9:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR






Well good I brought text cloner when I did then.

Its not been updated since 2011 but yeah, at least I have textcloner
now.

I am quite disappointed with abbyyy and their latest finereader product.

I do use ocr and scanning but not as much as I usually did.

Interestingly when I checked you can still buy the product with paypal.

The company you buy from seems to be something completely different
but I am happy I got the program.

I don't use something like this to continuously update anyway.







On 6/09/2020 3:30 am, Robert Logue wrote:


I was going to try Text Cloner Pro but the company seems to be closed.


Text Cloner Pro - Premier AT Home




Start downloading link takes me a log in page with no option to join.




Emailed support and they said they are permanently closed. Actually
said"Sorry we are pertinently closed Does pertinently mean
temporary due to Covid:?I attached their reply.





I'm on vacation so will try the support number I found in another
message.


Text cloner support
1-888-514-9117





http://www.premierathome.com/products/TextClonerPro.php




I hope I can get it but I haven't even had a chance to try it. My
experience with ABBY in the past wasn't so good.





Bob


On 2020-01-08 4:43 p.m., Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:
?
i use abby


----- Original Message ----- From: Quentin Christensen
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 7:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] OCR

Good morning,

Has anyone compared OCR software lately? I had someone ask about
Omnipage 20. I know a few people use Abbyy Finereader, but I wasn't
sure how they compare or what other options are out there currently.

Kind regards

Quentin.



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus




Re: Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

 

Gene,
 
           I'll agree with the "using simulated mouse" part, but not object navigation part.   It makes no sense to separate that out from "accessible" it's just another way the keyboard is used in the current Windows ecosystem to get to things.  And it's probably going to become far more common, not less, and one will look quite foolish if you insist on calling things accessed by object navigation "inaccessible."

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

Gene
 

I am using the numpad for object navigation. But the general definition of accessible is directly accessible through keyboard commands such as working in dialogs or menus or using short cut commands. Using the simulated mouse or object navigation are, of course, done using screen-reader commands but because you are using the keyboard doesn't mean the program is accessible. when using those techniques. I don't know about apps as opposed to applications, but in an application, if commands are not directly accessible from the keyboard, they are not considered accessible as the word is usually used.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2020 2:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

If you're not using the keyboard, of which the number pad is a part, for object navigation then I don't know what you are using.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

~ Oscar Wilde


Re: Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

 

If you're not using the keyboard, of which the number pad is a part, for object navigation then I don't know what you are using.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

Gene
 

That isn't the definition of accessible. It is useable but accessible, in its general use means accessible from the keyboard.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2020 12:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

On Sun, Sep 6, 2020 at 12:48 PM, Gene wrote:
I know no other way than to use object navigation to move to and activate a button that brings up an accessible menu. And since object navigation is an accepted, if underused, part of screen readers (JAWS calls it the touch cursor if memory serves, but I may be wrong) that means it's accessible.

Even I am guilty of not using object navigation as frequently as I should when I find something isn't accessible via straight "tab traversal" or other shortcut methods. But if it's accessible via object navigation and can be interacted with, it's accessible. It's right back to both "tool to task" and adding new techniques to one's standard arsenal.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

~ Oscar Wilde


Re: OCR

Cristóbal
 

Another thing to try is the KNFBReader Windows 10 app.
I can't recall the last time I really used the full Kurzweil 1000 version on my computer, but still use the KNFBReader app from time to time.
In general though, I hardly use a third party software for OCR on my computers at this point because most of that I now do with my iPhone if it's an actual sheet of paper and I'm also a Jaws user mainly. Their built in OCR feature has gotten really good and is good enough for the odd document or image.

Cristóbal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 10:01 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

Thanks, Rui,

Well, that is my experience too! As others have said, the whole OCR crisis has faded considerably since about ten years ago when Kurtzweil was all the rage and, indeed, was the most accessible. I think the benefit of the good OCR engines was that they included an accessible means of editing the results so that any OCR errors could be quickly cleaned up.

Nowadays, I use the Canon commercial scanner tool which simply delivers an image from the scanner into my chosen location in "My Documents". I then use the application menu to pass the image through FineReader in batch mode into Word and I have all the functionality of Word to make any changes that are needed. These steps were not so easily available in the past. This is why I find I can live with the inaccessibility of the FineReader application.

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 5:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

Hello!


Firstly, I didn't said that FineReader was fully accessible!

I just asked what was the problem with the accessibility of the menus...


Regarding the Editor window it is somehow accessible, but it is a strange window...

I have tried with a document, recognized almost completely correct to TXT format, but with errors on the Editor window... And trying to correct in that window is not possible...

By instance, in the Editor appears M RIA instead of MARIA, and I was unable to correct it...


After the recognition, press Control Tab and then Shift Control Tab...
Maybe not the first time, but you will land in a edit area...


Rui Fontes



Às 16:40 de 06/09/2020, Cearbhall O'Meadhra escreveu:
Hi, Rui,

I am using FineReader 11 because I recognised its value as an OCR machine. The menus are perfectly accessible. However I cannot browse the document resulting from OCR nor can I make any edits to the document. The editor does not seem to be accessible. As you do find this program to be fully accessible, could you suggest how I might use the editor and view my pages in FineReader with NVDA?


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e:
cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui
Fontes
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 12:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

What accessibility problems with FineReader menus?

I am using FineReader 14, and I have already installed FineReader 15 for costummers, and didn't notice any accessibility problems with the menus...


Rui Fontes


Às 08:29 de 06/09/2020, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well there are accessibility issues with the menus on abbyy.

Yeah textcloner pro uses the iris engine.

I only need ocr for the occasional bill or other typed document.

I have knfb reader for some other stuff, and for the rest if
balabolka or codex can't read it then they are probably not worth my time.

I do hope that they do get this fixed.

I have not invested in omnipage as such but still.

Even though I emailed finereader support well abbyy support about
this issue with menus and delays in nvda, it appears that they never fixed it.

It took ages till I even got an update and then I asked support about
my access fixes only to be told they were not completed.

You'd think they would actually, 1. give a higher priority to get
those fixed and also update sooner.

In sort I really want a program that is reliable and has good support.

As for omnipage, its not even owned by nuance.

Aparently the best abbyy version is v12 but while yes I have my
registration code I no longer have links that work for old abbyy 12.



On 6/09/2020 7:19 pm, Gene wrote:
Why are you disappointed? Also, unless this has changed, Text
Cloner didn't use as good OCR engines. It had two major selling
points, one that it is a very simple program and very easy to use,
and two, that it is inexpensive. In today's environment, I'm not
sure either carachteristic matters much any more and if the program
is still more simple, it may not be worth giving up the added
accuracy of products like Fine Reader and Omnipage. Those are
questions those who use newer versions of these programs will have
to discuss to get current information because things can change so much and so fast in programs.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2020 9:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR






Well good I brought text cloner when I did then.

Its not been updated since 2011 but yeah, at least I have textcloner
now.

I am quite disappointed with abbyyy and their latest finereader product.

I do use ocr and scanning but not as much as I usually did.

Interestingly when I checked you can still buy the product with paypal.

The company you buy from seems to be something completely different
but I am happy I got the program.

I don't use something like this to continuously update anyway.







On 6/09/2020 3:30 am, Robert Logue wrote:


I was going to try Text Cloner Pro but the company seems to be closed.


Text Cloner Pro - Premier AT Home




Start downloading link takes me a log in page with no option to join.




Emailed support and they said they are permanently closed. Actually
said"Sorry we are pertinently closed Does pertinently mean
temporary due to Covid:?I attached their reply.





I'm on vacation so will try the support number I found in another
message.


Text cloner support
1-888-514-9117





http://www.premierathome.com/products/TextClonerPro.php




I hope I can get it but I haven't even had a chance to try it. My
experience with ABBY in the past wasn't so good.





Bob


On 2020-01-08 4:43 p.m., Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:

i use abby


----- Original Message ----- From: Quentin Christensen
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 7:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] OCR

Good morning,

Has anyone compared OCR software lately? I had someone ask about
Omnipage 20. I know a few people use Abbyy Finereader, but I wasn't
sure how they compare or what other options are out there currently.

Kind regards

Quentin.



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus




Re: Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

 

On Sun, Sep 6, 2020 at 12:48 PM, Gene wrote:
I know no other way than to use object navigation to move to and activate a button that brings up an accessible menu. 
And since object navigation is an accepted, if underused, part of screen readers (JAWS calls it the touch cursor if memory serves, but I may be wrong) that means it's accessible.

Even I am guilty of not using object navigation as frequently as I should when I find something isn't accessible via straight "tab traversal" or other shortcut methods.  But if it's accessible via object navigation and can be interacted with, it's accessible.  It's right back to both "tool to task" and adding new techniques to one's standard arsenal.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: OCR

 

On Sun, Sep 6, 2020 at 12:29 PM, Rui Fontes wrote:
Why not send the results directly to Word?
Because certain software doesn't give that option.  The OCR scan result goes to PDF by default.

Essentially, if what I want is possible as a OCR direct to option, I'll use it.  If not, I try to save something initially that Word can deal with and convert.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: OCR

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Thanks, Rui,

Well, that is my experience too! As others have said, the whole OCR crisis has faded considerably since about ten years ago when Kurtzweil was all the rage and, indeed, was the most accessible. I think the benefit of the good OCR engines was that they included an accessible means of editing the results so that any OCR errors could be quickly cleaned up.

Nowadays, I use the Canon commercial scanner tool which simply delivers an image from the scanner into my chosen location in "My Documents". I then use the application menu to pass the image through FineReader in batch mode into Word and I have all the functionality of Word to make any changes that are needed. These steps were not so easily available in the past. This is why I find I can live with the inaccessibility of the FineReader application.

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 5:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

Hello!


Firstly, I didn't said that FineReader was fully accessible!

I just asked what was the problem with the accessibility of the menus...


Regarding the Editor window it is somehow accessible, but it is a strange window...

I have tried with a document, recognized almost completely correct to TXT format, but with errors on the Editor window... And trying to correct in that window is not possible...

By instance, in the Editor appears M RIA instead of MARIA, and I was unable to correct it...


After the recognition, press Control Tab and then Shift Control Tab...
Maybe not the first time, but you will land in a edit area...


Rui Fontes



Às 16:40 de 06/09/2020, Cearbhall O'Meadhra escreveu:
Hi, Rui,

I am using FineReader 11 because I recognised its value as an OCR machine. The menus are perfectly accessible. However I cannot browse the document resulting from OCR nor can I make any edits to the document. The editor does not seem to be accessible. As you do find this program to be fully accessible, could you suggest how I might use the editor and view my pages in FineReader with NVDA?


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 12:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

What accessibility problems with FineReader menus?

I am using FineReader 14, and I have already installed FineReader 15 for costummers, and didn't notice any accessibility problems with the menus...


Rui Fontes


Às 08:29 de 06/09/2020, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well there are accessibility issues with the menus on abbyy.

Yeah textcloner pro uses the iris engine.

I only need ocr for the occasional bill or other typed document.

I have knfb reader for some other stuff, and for the rest if balabolka
or codex can't read it then they are probably not worth my time.

I do hope that they do get this fixed.

I have not invested in omnipage as such but still.

Even though I emailed finereader support well abbyy support about this
issue with menus and delays in nvda, it appears that they never fixed it.

It took ages till I even got an update and then I asked support about
my access fixes only to be told they were not completed.

You'd think they would actually, 1. give a higher priority to get
those fixed and also update sooner.

In sort I really want a program that is reliable and has good support.

As for omnipage, its not even owned by nuance.

Aparently the best abbyy version is v12 but while yes I have my
registration code I no longer have links that work for old abbyy 12.



On 6/09/2020 7:19 pm, Gene wrote:
Why are you disappointed? Also, unless this has changed, Text Cloner
didn't use as good OCR engines. It had two major selling points, one
that it is a very simple program and very easy to use, and two, that
it is inexpensive. In today's environment, I'm not sure either
carachteristic matters much any more and if the program is still more
simple, it may not be worth giving up the added accuracy of products
like Fine Reader and Omnipage. Those are questions those who use
newer versions of these programs will have to discuss to get current
information because things can change so much and so fast in programs.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2020 9:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR






Well good I brought text cloner when I did then.

Its not been updated since 2011 but yeah, at least I have textcloner
now.

I am quite disappointed with abbyyy and their latest finereader product.

I do use ocr and scanning but not as much as I usually did.

Interestingly when I checked you can still buy the product with paypal.

The company you buy from seems to be something completely different
but I am happy I got the program.

I don't use something like this to continuously update anyway.







On 6/09/2020 3:30 am, Robert Logue wrote:


I was going to try Text Cloner Pro but the company seems to be closed.


Text Cloner Pro - Premier AT Home




Start downloading link takes me a log in page with no option to join.




Emailed support and they said they are permanently closed. Actually
said"Sorry we are pertinently closed Does pertinently mean
temporary due to Covid:?I attached their reply.





I'm on vacation so will try the support number I found in another
message.


Text cloner support
1-888-514-9117





http://www.premierathome.com/products/TextClonerPro.php




I hope I can get it but I haven't even had a chance to try it. My
experience with ABBY in the past wasn't so good.





Bob


On 2020-01-08 4:43 p.m., Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:

i use abby


----- Original Message ----- From: Quentin Christensen
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 7:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] OCR

Good morning,

Has anyone compared OCR software lately? I had someone ask about
Omnipage 20. I know a few people use Abbyy Finereader, but I wasn't
sure how they compare or what other options are out there currently.

Kind regards

Quentin.



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus




Re: Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

Gene
 

As far as I know, the way you get to the place to do that is not accessible.  I know no other way than to use object navigation to move to and activate a button that brings up an accessible menu.  The actual menu is fully accessible.  It may be that there is an accessible way to bring up the menu that those who use the program regularly know.  I found nothing in my looking around the program.


Gene

On 9/6/2020 11:43 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Gene,

            Indeed it does not deal with changing the columns displayed because the function to do that is entirely accessible as it is.  The point is it makes it much easier to determine what the actual problematic column is without having to jump through all sorts of gyrations to do so.  Getting rid of it is a matter of bringing up the Thunderbird column selection dialog and unchecking it.  The add-on lets you do the necessary legwork to determine what needs to be moved/removed with far greater ease, which is my point.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

 

Gene,

            Indeed it does not deal with changing the columns displayed because the function to do that is entirely accessible as it is.  The point is it makes it much easier to determine what the actual problematic column is without having to jump through all sorts of gyrations to do so.  Getting rid of it is a matter of bringing up the Thunderbird column selection dialog and unchecking it.  The add-on lets you do the necessary legwork to determine what needs to be moved/removed with far greater ease, which is my point.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: OCR

Pranav Lal
 

Hi all,

Someone correct me if I am wrong but the last time I tried FineReader, it did not recognize text from within screen shots on a page. It just said "image". Kurzweil did. At that time, I attributed this to the difference between a blindness product and one designed for the sighted market.

Is this still the case?

Pranav

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