Date   

Re: In-Process for 7th September is out

Gene
 

This is a long message but the gross and very many inaccuracies in the original message should be corrected. As I explain in my message, having accurate information is very important so blind people can make good choices about if and when to use various programs.

You may have had bad experiences with JAWS but your experience doesn't reflect the general one.

the reason adaptive software for profit is so expensive is that the user base is small and the costs of research and development are paid by a small user base. Other programs that serve a small or very small user base are also very expensive.

You can debate whether JAWS is too expensive but either way, it would be very expensive.

NVDA is largely developed by people making a very low wage, most ;programmers wouldn't work for it and they do so because they are dedicated to the cause, and a good deal of free work gets done.

If JAWS were as prone to problems and as just plain bad as you say, we would see questions and complaints constantly on lists, this isn't working, that doesn't work properly, why is JAWS working in demo mode, that would be a license problem, and so on.

Your account defies common logic and sense because we don't see such things. And where are the complaints of employees and employers, where reliability and productivity are important?

I used JAWS before there was an NVDA and it served me well. There was this or that bug, but in general it worked well and was reliable. I have no reason to believe that isn't the case any longer.

And, whether you know it or not, NVDA uses scripts so what is your point? There may be more people writing scripts for NVDA voluntarily but a racket? Why? Because people have the Gaul to charge for a valuable service? As Biden would say, "come on, man."

In short, both from my experience, which can be argued to be of old versions of JAWS but also just plain common sense and what I don't see on the blindness assistance lists I follow, I see nothing to support your very inaccurate claims and statements.

I won't discuss other things that are important to some JAWS users, such as the ability to have the user customize it without scripting, which can be used to tailor performance with many programs so additional scripts are unnecessary through the use of what JAWS calls frames. I won't discuss the screen echo all setting, which at times, presents useful or necessary information immediately without the need to customize anything. I used hyperterminal for years by simply changing the screen echo to all and I didn’t have to customize a thing.

None of this is to lessen the importance or value of NVDA. But JAWS is important for enough people that it matters that it is around and people should have good information about both screen-readers so that if they want to try or use JAWS for some reason, they won't be discouraged from doing so. Also, for demanding users, it is a good idea to have more than one full screen-reader on a machine even if one is a demo. At times, I use a JAWS demo for some purpose where NVDA doesn't do something well or not at all. I would imagine that if I primarily used JAWS, I would find times where JAWS didn't do something as well or nearly as well as NVDA. As I said, it is important that screen-reader users have accurate information so they may be much better able to make good choices in what they use and how.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2020 2:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out



Hmph, if you are happy to pay a load of cash for each version update from freedomscientiffic or visparo etc thats your issue, have issues with licences, need scripts for just about everything like win98 needs drivers, are happy with the possible bad technical support issues going about and are happy that if it screws up you need to repair, reinstall or reformat if it totally goes nuts, not to mention that visparo like suing everyone under the sun well more than I'd like, go ahead.

When I used their stuff it was ok, but yeah, I never really had that many problems with it.

Never got into the payed script racket, either.

I had to repair it once or twice, but that was before it became a beast.

Compaired to nvda well who knows.

The information bandied round the list pluss a few other user experiences not my own pluss the fact that due to jaws and issues causing me to have to reformat to make them completely quit, but mostly information on here pluss what I hear from time to time, especially with how they got all the competing companies bar dolphin and that probably because they only just moved out of using internet explorer puts the impression on me that like microsoft used to be and may still be that this is a monopoly I would really like to see the back of.

I certainly am happy I no longer use their software, and unless I got a job which is what jaws is bandied about by various governments and stuff, I wouldn't touch it unless I had the cash.

To be hhonest this goes for dolphin stuff which is why I got in the beta program but that was for a completely selfish reason that being smuglers, its about all I care about now days.

To be honest, I don't much care for a company who is clearly running a business for the charity, government and enterprise market with prices to high for average users to buy, and needing expensive upgrades and modules for remote access with specialised blindy bits and bobs.

Nvda and things like narator have opened me to the mainstream, and with mainstream devices like the amazon echo devices and smart phones about, when the new normal comes along, I think some of these things will fall away sharply.

Dolphin seems to recognise this, so does avast.

So does nvaccess which is why I use them for most of my stuff.

Now there are a few things nvda does not do, but everything has its limits.

But if you plan to use a wordprocesser, a desktop app, a web brouser or email client or any office app or app using standard controls or terminals then you don't need jaws for that.




Now some of the mega custom apps and the like specialised programs, will need specialised software, and yeah, jaws is what you need and will always need.

Thats not nvda's job.

The job of nvda is to handle all the normal business and home applications that use standard controls, and the like as well as web interfaces.

To be honest that is what may happen, specialised software will need specialised software, and will be charged accordingly.

The only reason I'd get jaws is leasy thats about the only reason I'd buy jaws now.

And to be honest if leasy would just sell its games module then I'd just buy that.







On 7/09/2020 12:55 pm, Ron Kolesar wrote:

Here’s hoping it would make the Microsoft Flight simulator 2020 program more accessible.
Unlike it’s predecessor FSX, FS 2020 is not accessible for we who need to see with our ears.
Even though, all throughout the newsletters and you tube tutorials, it does have accessibility if your sighted.
This in short isn’t fair.
So, here’s hoping the newer upgrade to NVDA is more accessible for we blind flight simmer pilots.
Even though, in my opinion, JAWS is a much better program.
Just my opinion.
Ron Ham Radio and Emergency Communication Station KR3DOG

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 19:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out

In-process is out, this week with news on the upcoming NVDACon, a new accessible graphs project, a space-themed accessible RPG and some general tips on making software accessible: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-7th-september-2020/

Regards

Quentin.


--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
In the good old days of Morse code Shorthand, 73's AKA Best Regards and or Best Whishes,From
Ron Kolesar
Volunteer Certified Licensed Emergency Communications Station
And
Volunteer Certified Licensed Ham Radio Station
With the Call Sign of KR3DOG


Re: In-Process for 7th September is out

 

Hmph, if you are happy to pay a load of cash for each version update  from freedomscientiffic or visparo etc thats your issue, have issues with licences, need scripts for just about everything like win98 needs drivers, are happy with the possible bad technical support issues going about and are happy that if it screws up you need to repair, reinstall or reformat if it totally goes nuts, not to mention that visparo like suing everyone under the sun well more than I'd like, go ahead.

When I used their stuff it was ok, but yeah, I never really had that many problems with it.

Never got into the payed script racket, either.

I had to repair it once or twice, but that was before it became a beast.

Compaired to nvda well who knows.

The information bandied round the list pluss a few other user experiences not my own pluss the fact that due to jaws and issues causing me to have to reformat to make them completely quit, but mostly information on here pluss what I hear from time to time, especially with how they got all the competing companies bar dolphin and that probably because they only just moved out of using internet explorer puts the impression on me that like microsoft used to be and may still be that this is a monopoly I would really like to see the back of.

I certainly am happy I no longer use their software, and unless I got a job which is what jaws is bandied about by various governments and stuff, I wouldn't touch it unless I had the cash.

To be hhonest this goes for dolphin stuff which is why I got in the beta program but that was for a completely selfish reason that being smuglers, its about all I care about now days.

To be honest, I don't much care for a company who is clearly running a business for the charity, government and enterprise market with prices to high for average users to buy, and needing expensive upgrades and modules for remote access with specialised blindy bits and bobs.

Nvda and things like narator have opened me to the mainstream, and with mainstream devices like the amazon echo devices and smart phones about, when the new normal comes along, I think some of these things will fall away sharply.

Dolphin seems to recognise this, so does avast.

So does nvaccess which is why I use them for most of my stuff.

Now there are a few things nvda does not do, but everything has its limits.

But if you plan to use a wordprocesser, a desktop app, a web brouser or email client or any office app or app using standard controls or terminals then you don't need jaws for that.


Now some of the mega custom apps and the like specialised programs, will need specialised software, and yeah, jaws is what you need and will always need.

Thats not nvda's job.

The job of nvda is to handle all the normal business and home applications that use standard controls, and the like as well as web interfaces.

To be honest that is what may happen, specialised software will need specialised software, and will be charged accordingly.

The only reason I'd get jaws is leasy thats about the only reason I'd buy jaws now.

And to be honest if leasy would just sell its games module then I'd just buy that.



On 7/09/2020 12:55 pm, Ron Kolesar wrote:
Here’s hoping it would make the Microsoft Flight simulator 2020 program more accessible.
Unlike it’s predecessor FSX, FS 2020 is not accessible for we who need to see with our ears.
Even though, all throughout the newsletters and you tube tutorials, it does have accessibility if your sighted.
This in short isn’t fair.
So, here’s hoping the newer upgrade to NVDA is more accessible for we blind flight simmer pilots.
Even though, in my opinion, JAWS is a much better program.
Just my opinion.
Ron Ham Radio and Emergency Communication Station KR3DOG
 
From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 19:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out
 
In-process is out, this week with news on the upcoming NVDACon, a new accessible graphs project, a space-themed accessible RPG and some general tips on making software accessible: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-7th-september-2020/
 
Regards
 
Quentin.
 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

In the good old days of Morse code Shorthand, 73's AKA Best Regards and or Best Whishes,From
Ron Kolesar
Volunteer Certified Licensed Emergency Communications Station
And
Volunteer Certified Licensed Ham Radio Station
With the Call Sign of KR3DOG


Re: NVDA not able to install completely and gives error

Jim Pipczak
 

Yes.

 

Jim

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arlene
Sent: Friday, 4 September 2020 1:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA not able to install completely and gives error

 

Hi, will that do it to any other program you might want rid of? I have a friend who has trouble getting rid of a program. She’s sighted.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jim Pipczak
Sent: September 3, 2020 5:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA not able to install completely and gives error

 

Hi,

 

Press Windows r to bring up the run dialogue box and then type tskill nvda and press the enter key.

 

This will kill the NVDA process. Then reinstall NVDA.

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mohd. Ahtesham Shaikh

Sent: Thursday, 3 September 2020 8:07 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] NVDA not able to install completely and gives error

 

Dear all,

Hope all are fine.

I am facing an issue with NVDA.

Suddenly NVDA stopped working and I tried installing it again.

After installation I am hearing jaws say NVDA is not responding and there is a blank dialogue box appearing at the center of the screen.

I tried re-installing several times after completely uninstalling but does not work.

Is there any solution to this problem.

I am using Windows 10 on 64 bit I3 laptop.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Ahtesham

 

 

--

Mohd. Ahtesham

From India

Using Windows 8.1 at home and windows 10 pro in office

 

 

 

 

Jim Pipczak

Access Technology Service Development Lead

Client Services

Vision Australia

14 & 17 Barrett Street Kensington VIC 3031

 

M: +614 3375 7598 T: +613 8378 1243 (I: 344243)

E: Jim.Pipczak@...

www.visionaustralia.org

 

 

Vision Australia is committed to supporting the blind and low vision community through COVID-19. Find out about our response and free support resources online at www.visionaustralia.org/COVID19.

 

[Vision Australia. Blindness. Low Vision.  Opportunity. - logo]

 

[Vision Australia. Winner of the Australian HR Award for Best Workplace Diversity and Inclusion Program. - logo]

 

Vision Australia acknowledges Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people as the traditional custodians of the land on which we operate. We have an inclusive culture and value diversity and all abilities.

 

 

 

 


Re: Checking file size in the "Properties" dialog using NVDA

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


Do you want it spoken out before hand? as you arrow to each item or go into the properties of those items? if you have tool tips not checked they will not be spoken out the check box is found under the object  presentation menu.


You might also have to change your view to details view so this happens in the windows menu.


If it is the second one to see the properties either use the shift key + f10 key or the applications key to bring up the context menu then arrow down to properties then press the enter key.

you can get to that information which is usually spoken out by using either screen review or object navigation.


For screen review you could use in this case I am using a desk top layout after you have opened the properties section then hit the nvda key + the number 7 on the numeric keypad this should change it to screen review.


Then you could use the number 9 on the numeric keypad to go down it one line at a time until you hear the info you want to hear..

Using the number 8 key on the numeric keypad does the line you are on while 7 does the previous line, 4 does the previous word, while 5 does the current word and 6 the next word. 1 is the previous character, 2 is current and 3 is next character. This can also be copied if need to.


With object navigation you would use the nvda key + number 1 key on the numeric key pad then use the NVDA key +

 key on the numeirc keypad to get to that same info. You might have to hit it a couple of times to get theere.  again it can be copied.

.


The 2 modes or there are 3 they can get you to parts of a screen that you might not be able to tab to.


Gene nz


On 7/09/2020 12:28 pm, Louise Pfau wrote:
Hi.  How do I check the file size listed in the "Properties" dialog with NVDA?  It was possible to navigate to it with JAWS using the "JAWS" or "invisible" cursors.  When I use the similar NVDA reading commands for reading in scan mode, the only thing that is read is the text of the control with system focus, which is usually the "read-only" checkbox that appears when the "Properties" dialog is first opened.

Thanks,

Louise


Re: I had a good scare

Arlene
 

Oh okay, I’ll have to try that as well.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: JM Casey
Sent: September 6, 2020 8:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I had a good scare

 

You can also type “desktop” from the run dialogue box if you need to. It works like the “downloads” and “documents” libraries/folders in that sense.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arlene
Sent: September 6, 2020 5:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I had a good scare

 

Hi Luke, I hit windows M to get to the desktop. It would not come up. So I went to windows X there I found it I hit enter and I was taken to the desktop.  If it happens again. I’ll just hit windows x and there you will find it.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Luke Davis
Sent: September 5, 2020 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I had a good scare

 

Are you saying that Windows+D or Windows+M would not take you to the desktop?

 

Or are you saying that you had no icons on your desktop, but you could actually

get to the desktop?

 

 

On Sat, 5 Sep 2020, Arlene wrote:

 

> Hi list: Tonight when I took a windows update, I had a real scare! I had no desktop icon.  When I hit windows X I snooped around in there and there I found

> desktop. I hit it and the Icon came back. If that happens to you you hit windows x arrow around until you find it.When you hear desktop, hit enter and you

> are there.  Hit start menue to make sure you have the icon and it will be there.  Then you will find your desktop icon.

 

 

 

 


Re: I had a good scare

JM Casey
 

You can also type “desktop” from the run dialogue box if you need to. It works like the “downloads” and “documents” libraries/folders in that sense.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arlene
Sent: September 6, 2020 5:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I had a good scare

 

Hi Luke, I hit windows M to get to the desktop. It would not come up. So I went to windows X there I found it I hit enter and I was taken to the desktop.  If it happens again. I’ll just hit windows x and there you will find it.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Luke Davis
Sent: September 5, 2020 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I had a good scare

 

Are you saying that Windows+D or Windows+M would not take you to the desktop?

 

Or are you saying that you had no icons on your desktop, but you could actually

get to the desktop?

 

 

On Sat, 5 Sep 2020, Arlene wrote:

 

> Hi list: Tonight when I took a windows update, I had a real scare! I had no desktop icon.  When I hit windows X I snooped around in there and there I found

> desktop. I hit it and the Icon came back. If that happens to you you hit windows x arrow around until you find it.When you hear desktop, hit enter and you

> are there.  Hit start menue to make sure you have the icon and it will be there.  Then you will find your desktop icon.

 

 

 


Re: In-Process for 7th September is out

Ron Kolesar
 

Here’s hoping it would make the Microsoft Flight simulator 2020 program more accessible.
Unlike it’s predecessor FSX, FS 2020 is not accessible for we who need to see with our ears.
Even though, all throughout the newsletters and you tube tutorials, it does have accessibility if your sighted.
This in short isn’t fair.
So, here’s hoping the newer upgrade to NVDA is more accessible for we blind flight simmer pilots.
Even though, in my opinion, JAWS is a much better program.
Just my opinion.
Ron Ham Radio and Emergency Communication Station KR3DOG
 

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 19:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out
 
In-process is out, this week with news on the upcoming NVDACon, a new accessible graphs project, a space-themed accessible RPG and some general tips on making software accessible: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-7th-september-2020/
 
Regards
 
Quentin.
 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

In the good old days of Morse code Shorthand, 73's AKA Best Regards and or Best Whishes,From
Ron Kolesar
Volunteer Certified Licensed Emergency Communications Station
And
Volunteer Certified Licensed Ham Radio Station
With the Call Sign of KR3DOG


Re: Checking file size in the "Properties" dialog using NVDA

Gene
 

I can tell you using commands for the desktop layout. I don't know the laptop layout. But you won't really learn how to use the NVDA navigation modes from this explanation. I haven't used tutorials that teach this so I'll let others discuss those.

To do what you want, open properties.
Go into screen review mode with the command numpad insert numpad 7. That is, hold numpad insert and press numpad 7 while doing so.

Repeat the command until you hear something like screen review mode, though once will probably be enough.
Execute the command shift numpad 7 to move to the top of the screen. Move down the screen with numpad 9. You are moving down the screen by line. You can move very quickly until you hear the information you want. If you want to hear it again, press numpad 8, read current line. If you pass something you want to hear, go back with numpad 7. So numpad 7 is go back a line, numpad 8 is read current line and numpad 9 is move down one line.
Shift numpad 7 moves you to the top of the screen. I'll let you realize what shift numpad 9 does.

After you have finished, be sure you use the command num;pad insert numpad 1 until you are back in object navigation mode. If you don't remember to move back there, you may not get accurate focus when you move around.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Louise Pfau
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2020 7:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Checking file size in the "Properties" dialog using NVDA

Hi. How do I check the file size listed in the "Properties" dialog with NVDA? It was possible to navigate to it with JAWS using the "JAWS" or "invisible" cursors. When I use the similar NVDA reading commands for reading in scan mode, the only thing that is read is the text of the control with system focus, which is usually the "read-only" checkbox that appears when the "Properties" dialog is first opened.

Thanks,

Louise


Re: Checking file size in the "Properties" dialog using NVDA

Tony Ballou
 

Hi,

 

While in properties hit insert-b  and NVDA will read what’s in the dialog box to you. Hope this helps.

 

Tony

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Louise Pfau
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 8:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Checking file size in the "Properties" dialog using NVDA

 

Hi.  How do I check the file size listed in the "Properties" dialog with NVDA?  It was possible to navigate to it with JAWS using the "JAWS" or "invisible" cursors.  When I use the similar NVDA reading commands for reading in scan mode, the only thing that is read is the text of the control with system focus, which is usually the "read-only" checkbox that appears when the "Properties" dialog is first opened.

Thanks,

Louise

 


Checking file size in the "Properties" dialog using NVDA

Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  How do I check the file size listed in the "Properties" dialog with NVDA?  It was possible to navigate to it with JAWS using the "JAWS" or "invisible" cursors.  When I use the similar NVDA reading commands for reading in scan mode, the only thing that is read is the text of the control with system focus, which is usually the "read-only" checkbox that appears when the "Properties" dialog is first opened.

Thanks,

Louise


In-Process for 7th September is out

Quentin Christensen
 

In-process is out, this week with news on the upcoming NVDACon, a new accessible graphs project, a space-themed accessible RPG and some general tips on making software accessible: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-7th-september-2020/

Regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: OCR

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

I just completed a little test and compared KNFB-reader with Finereader 11
reading an image of a page scanned on my Canon scanner.

The KNFB-Reader seemed the slikcest but it failed to distinguish last "r" of
"return" showing it as "retun".

I ran Finereader in batch mode choosing "Convert to Word" and all words came
out perfectly first time!

One up for Fimereader!
,

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cearbhall
O'Meadhra
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 10:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

Thanks, Martin, I'll give that a go!


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marten Post
Uiterweer
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 8:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

Cearbhall,
You can also go to the list where you will find a list of page numbers.
1, 2 etc. The pages you have scanned.
Press contextkey or shift-f10 on a digit and chose: save pages to or
something.
Ctrl-tab and tab are keys to use in finereader. Maybe sw3itch to an othere
program with alt-tab and back to finereader.

Regards, marten


On Sun, 6 Sep 2020 17:08:12 +0100 "Rui Fontes" <rui.fontes@tiflotecnia.com>
wrote:

Hello!


Firstly, I didn't said that FineReader was fully accessible!

I just asked what was the problem with the acessibility of the menus...


Regarding the Editor window it is somehow accessible, but it is a
strange
window...

I have tried with a document, recognized almost completly correct to
TXT
format, but with errors on the Editor window... And trying to correct in
that window is not possible...

By instance, in the Editor appears M RIA instead of MARIA, and I was
unable to correct it...


After the recognition, press Control Tab and then Shift Control Tab...
Maybe not the first time, but you will land in a edit area...


Rui Fontes



Às 16:40 de 06/09/2020, Cearbhall O'Meadhra escreveu:
Hi, Rui,

I am using FineReader 11 because I recognised its value as an OCR
machine. The menus are perfectly accessible. However I cannot browse the
document resulting from OCR nor can I make any edits to the document. The
editor does not seem to be accessible. As you do find this program to be
fully accessible, could you suggest how I might use the editor and view my
pages in FineReader with NVDA?


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e:
cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui
Fontes
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 12:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

What accessibility problems with FineReader menus?

I am using FineReader 14, and I have already installed FineReader 15
for
costummers, and didn't notice any accessibility problems with the menus...


Rui Fontes


Às 08:29 de 06/09/2020, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well there are accessibility issues with the menus on abbyy.

Yeah textcloner pro uses the iris engine.

I only need ocr for the occasional bill or other typed document.

I have knfb reader for some other stuff, and for the rest if
balabolka or codex can't read it then they are probably not worth
my
time.

I do hope that they do get this fixed.

I have not invested in omnipage as such but still.

Even though I emailed finereader support well abbyy support about
this issue with menus and delays in nvda, it appears that they
never
fixed it.

It took ages till I even got an update and then I asked support
about my access fixes only to be told they were not completed.

You'd think they would actually, 1. give a higher priority to get
those fixed and also update sooner.

In sort I really want a program that is reliable and has good support.

As for omnipage, its not even owned by nuance.

Aparently the best abbyy version is v12 but while yes I have my
registration code I no longer have links that work for old abbyy 12.



On 6/09/2020 7:19 pm, Gene wrote:
Why are you disappointed? Also, unless this has changed, Text
Cloner didn't use as good OCR engines. It had two major selling
points, one that it is a very simple program and very easy to use,
and two, that it is inexpensive. In today's environment, I'm not
sure either carachteristic matters much any more and if the
program is still more simple, it may not be worth giving up the
added accuracy of products like Fine Reader and Omnipage. Those
are questions those who use newer versions of these programs will
have to discuss to get current information because things can
change
so much and so fast in programs.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2020 9:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR






Well good I brought text cloner when I did then.

Its not been updated since 2011 but yeah, at least I have
textcloner now.

I am quite disappointed with abbyyy and their latest finereader
product.

I do use ocr and scanning but not as much as I usually did.

Interestingly when I checked you can still buy the product with
paypal.

The company you buy from seems to be something completely
different but I am happy I got the program.

I don't use something like this to continuously update anyway.







On 6/09/2020 3:30 am, Robert Logue wrote:


I was going to try Text Cloner Pro but the company seems to be closed.


Text Cloner Pro - Premier AT Home




Start downloading link takes me a log in page with no option to join.




Emailed support and they said they are permanently closed.
Actually said"Sorry we are pertinently closed Does pertinently
mean temporary due to Covid:?I attached their reply.





I'm on vacation so will try the support number I found in another
message.


Text cloner support
1-888-514-9117





http://www.premierathome.com/products/TextClonerPro.php




I hope I can get it but I haven't even had a chance to try it. My
experience with ABBY in the past wasn't so good.





Bob


On 2020-01-08 4:43 p.m., Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:
?
i use abby


----- Original Message ----- From: Quentin Christensen
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 7:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] OCR

Good morning,

Has anyone compared OCR software lately? I had someone ask about
Omnipage 20. I know a few people use Abbyy Finereader, but I
wasn't sure how they compare or what other options are out there
currently.

Kind regards

Quentin.



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus




Re: OCR

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Thanks, Martin, I'll give that a go!


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marten Post
Uiterweer
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 8:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

Cearbhall,
You can also go to the list where you will find a list of page numbers.
1, 2 etc. The pages you have scanned.
Press contextkey or shift-f10 on a digit and chose: save pages to or
something.
Ctrl-tab and tab are keys to use in finereader. Maybe sw3itch to an othere
program with alt-tab and back to finereader.

Regards, marten


On Sun, 6 Sep 2020 17:08:12 +0100 "Rui Fontes" <rui.fontes@tiflotecnia.com>
wrote:

Hello!


Firstly, I didn't said that FineReader was fully accessible!

I just asked what was the problem with the acessibility of the menus...


Regarding the Editor window it is somehow accessible, but it is a strange
window...

I have tried with a document, recognized almost completly correct to TXT
format, but with errors on the Editor window... And trying to correct in
that window is not possible...

By instance, in the Editor appears M RIA instead of MARIA, and I was
unable to correct it...


After the recognition, press Control Tab and then Shift Control Tab...
Maybe not the first time, but you will land in a edit area...


Rui Fontes



Às 16:40 de 06/09/2020, Cearbhall O'Meadhra escreveu:
Hi, Rui,

I am using FineReader 11 because I recognised its value as an OCR
machine. The menus are perfectly accessible. However I cannot browse the
document resulting from OCR nor can I make any edits to the document. The
editor does not seem to be accessible. As you do find this program to be
fully accessible, could you suggest how I might use the editor and view my
pages in FineReader with NVDA?


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e:
cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui
Fontes
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 12:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

What accessibility problems with FineReader menus?

I am using FineReader 14, and I have already installed FineReader 15 for
costummers, and didn't notice any accessibility problems with the menus...


Rui Fontes


Às 08:29 de 06/09/2020, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well there are accessibility issues with the menus on abbyy.

Yeah textcloner pro uses the iris engine.

I only need ocr for the occasional bill or other typed document.

I have knfb reader for some other stuff, and for the rest if
balabolka or codex can't read it then they are probably not worth my
time.

I do hope that they do get this fixed.

I have not invested in omnipage as such but still.

Even though I emailed finereader support well abbyy support about
this issue with menus and delays in nvda, it appears that they never
fixed it.

It took ages till I even got an update and then I asked support
about my access fixes only to be told they were not completed.

You'd think they would actually, 1. give a higher priority to get
those fixed and also update sooner.

In sort I really want a program that is reliable and has good support.

As for omnipage, its not even owned by nuance.

Aparently the best abbyy version is v12 but while yes I have my
registration code I no longer have links that work for old abbyy 12.



On 6/09/2020 7:19 pm, Gene wrote:
Why are you disappointed? Also, unless this has changed, Text
Cloner didn't use as good OCR engines. It had two major selling
points, one that it is a very simple program and very easy to use,
and two, that it is inexpensive. In today's environment, I'm not
sure either carachteristic matters much any more and if the
program is still more simple, it may not be worth giving up the
added accuracy of products like Fine Reader and Omnipage. Those
are questions those who use newer versions of these programs will
have to discuss to get current information because things can change
so much and so fast in programs.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2020 9:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR






Well good I brought text cloner when I did then.

Its not been updated since 2011 but yeah, at least I have
textcloner now.

I am quite disappointed with abbyyy and their latest finereader
product.

I do use ocr and scanning but not as much as I usually did.

Interestingly when I checked you can still buy the product with
paypal.

The company you buy from seems to be something completely
different but I am happy I got the program.

I don't use something like this to continuously update anyway.







On 6/09/2020 3:30 am, Robert Logue wrote:


I was going to try Text Cloner Pro but the company seems to be closed.


Text Cloner Pro - Premier AT Home




Start downloading link takes me a log in page with no option to join.




Emailed support and they said they are permanently closed.
Actually said"Sorry we are pertinently closed Does pertinently
mean temporary due to Covid:?I attached their reply.





I'm on vacation so will try the support number I found in another
message.


Text cloner support
1-888-514-9117





http://www.premierathome.com/products/TextClonerPro.php




I hope I can get it but I haven't even had a chance to try it. My
experience with ABBY in the past wasn't so good.





Bob


On 2020-01-08 4:43 p.m., Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:
?
i use abby


----- Original Message ----- From: Quentin Christensen
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 7:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] OCR

Good morning,

Has anyone compared OCR software lately? I had someone ask about
Omnipage 20. I know a few people use Abbyy Finereader, but I
wasn't sure how they compare or what other options are out there
currently.

Kind regards

Quentin.



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus




Re: I had a good scare

Arlene
 

Hi Luke, I hit windows M to get to the desktop. It would not come up. So I went to windows X there I found it I hit enter and I was taken to the desktop.  If it happens again. I’ll just hit windows x and there you will find it.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Luke Davis
Sent: September 5, 2020 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I had a good scare

 

Are you saying that Windows+D or Windows+M would not take you to the desktop?

 

Or are you saying that you had no icons on your desktop, but you could actually

get to the desktop?

 

 

On Sat, 5 Sep 2020, Arlene wrote:

 

> Hi list: Tonight when I took a windows update, I had a real scare! I had no desktop icon.  When I hit windows X I snooped around in there and there I found

> desktop. I hit it and the Icon came back. If that happens to you you hit windows x arrow around until you find it.When you hear desktop, hit enter and you

> are there.  Hit start menue to make sure you have the icon and it will be there.  Then you will find your desktop icon.

 

 

 


Re: OCR

Arlene
 

Kurzweil when I had windows 7. I haven’t installed it on my win ten laptop. Not sure what version I have. I don’t think it will work on this machine.  It did work on my win 7 box.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: September 6, 2020 12:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

 

I haven't tried Kurzweil for many years.  If they are still updating the OCR

in the program, it should be roughly equivalent, as I found it to be in the

past.  I don't know how you might intend to use the program but it isn't

worth spending about 1,000 dollars unless you specifically intend to use

features other than the OCR in Kurzweil.  Its been a long time since I

looked at price information for Omnipage and Fine Reader but they are much

less expensive, being off the shelf programs and not having to amortize

their development costs over a very small user base.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Bhavya shah

Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2020 5:48 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

 

Dear all,

 

I have mostly seen comments on Omnipage and Fine Reader so far. What

do you think about Kurzweil and how does its accuracy and feature set

compare with these? Thoughts appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

On 9/5/20, Robert Logue <bobcat11@...> wrote:

> I was going to try Text Cloner Pro but the company seems to be closed.

> Text Cloner Pro - Premier AT Home

> Start downloading link takes me a log in page with no option to join.

> Emailed support and they said they are permanently closed. Actually

> said"Sorry we are pertinently  closed  Does pertinently mean temporary

> due to Covid:?I attached their reply.

> I'm on vacation so will try the support number I found in another message.

> Text cloner support

> 1-888-514-9117

> http://www.premierathome.com/products/TextClonerPro.php

> I hope I can get it but I haven't even had a chance to try it. My

> experience with ABBY in the past wasn't so good.

> Bob

> On 2020-01-08 4:43 p.m., Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:

>> 

>> i use abby

>> 

>>     ----- Original Message -----

>>     *From:* Quentin Christensen <mailto:quentin@...>

>>     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>     *Sent:* Wednesday, January 8, 2020 7:19 PM

>>     *Subject:* [nvda] OCR

>> 

>>     Good morning,

>> 

>>     Has anyone compared OCR software lately?   I had someone ask about

>>     Omnipage 20.  I know a few people use Abbyy Finereader, but I

>>     wasn't sure how they compare or what other options are out there

>>     currently.

>> 

>>     Kind regards

>> 

>>     Quentin.

>> 

>>     --

>>     Quentin Christensen

>>     Training and Support Manager

>> 

>>     Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>

>>     Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

>>     Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/

>>     User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda

>>     Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess

>>     Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>

>> 

>> 

 

 

--

Best Regards

Bhavya Shah

Stanford University | Class of 2024

E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@...

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/

 

 

 

 

 


Re: weird stuff happening with NVDA add ons

Tony Ballou
 

Hi Luke,

 

Good to hear from you man, to answer the ASB question, absolutely. That was where we met and hung out. I taught for a few more years and switched to doing tech work in 2007. The zoom add on did eventually installed properly. The only other one that’s not working was the one that could read captions.  I believe it came from the blindie tech list. Since I tried it last month, I don’t know if NVDA keeps the old logs from that far back. I will test it again if I can find the link to the message in it and try a re-install with the add ons disabled.  If it doesn’t work, I’ll be sure to send you the log. 

 

Tony      

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Luke Davis
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 2:31 AM
To: Nvda List
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird stuff happening with NVDA add ons

 

Tony

"latest versions" is a bit nebulous, but I will assume you mean you are
using NVDA 2020.2 and Windows 10 version 2004.

That given: what add-ons have you tried, and where did you get them?

Perhaps more importantly, have you tried to install these add-ons after first
restarting NVDA with add-ons disabled?

If so, can you set your log to debugging, and send it to me off list?
(%temp%\nvda-old.log is the file for the previous NVDA session, %temp%\nvda.log
is the log from the active session.)

Btw, didn't you used to work in the computer lab at ASB many years ago? I
knew you from stuff I used to do in the same building, think we hung out a few
times.

Luke

On Sat, 5 Sep 2020, Tony Ballou wrote:

>
> Howdy folks,
>
>  
>
> For some reason each time I try to install a new add on, I’m getting an add on failed to install error.  Any ideas why this is going down?  Never had this
> problem before and am using the latest versions of windows 10 and NVDA. Thanks.

 


Re: Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

Gene
 

I said that I didn't know what the case is with apps. I don't know if accessibility is defined differently, but Thunderbird is an application, not an app.

I tried to find what the current definition of accessibility is in terms of blind people to see if their is now a distinction between applications and apps but I didn't find anything. I'm not saying you are wrong in terms of apps. I don't know. I am saying that in terms of applications, I am using the standard definition.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2020 2:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

Gene,

I'll agree with the "using simulated mouse" part, but not object navigation part. It makes no sense to separate that out from "accessible" it's just another way the keyboard is used in the current Windows ecosystem to get to things. And it's probably going to become far more common, not less, and one will look quite foolish if you insist on calling things accessed by object navigation "inaccessible."

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

~ Oscar Wilde


Re: OCR

Marten Post Uiterweer
 

Cearbhall,
You can also go to the list where you will find a list of page numbers.
1, 2 etc. The pages you have scanned.
Press contextkey or shift-f10 on a digit and chose: save pages to or
something.
Ctrl-tab and tab are keys to use in finereader. Maybe sw3itch to an
othere program with alt-tab and back to finereader.

Regards, marten


On Sun, 6 Sep 2020 17:08:12 +0100 "Rui Fontes" <rui.fontes@tiflotecnia.com> wrote:

Hello!


Firstly, I didn't said that FineReader was fully accessible!

I just asked what was the problem with the acessibility of the menus...


Regarding the Editor window it is somehow accessible, but it is a strange window...

I have tried with a document, recognized almost completly correct to TXT format, but with errors on the Editor window... And trying to correct in that window is not possible...

By instance, in the Editor appears M RIA instead of MARIA, and I was unable to correct it...


After the recognition, press Control Tab and then Shift Control Tab... Maybe not the first time, but you will land in a edit area...


Rui Fontes



Às 16:40 de 06/09/2020, Cearbhall O'Meadhra escreveu:
Hi, Rui,

I am using FineReader 11 because I recognised its value as an OCR machine. The menus are perfectly accessible. However I cannot browse the document resulting from OCR nor can I make any edits to the document. The editor does not seem to be accessible. As you do find this program to be fully accessible, could you suggest how I might use the editor and view my pages in FineReader with NVDA?


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 12:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR

What accessibility problems with FineReader menus?

I am using FineReader 14, and I have already installed FineReader 15 for costummers, and didn't notice any accessibility problems with the menus...


Rui Fontes


Às 08:29 de 06/09/2020, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well there are accessibility issues with the menus on abbyy.

Yeah textcloner pro uses the iris engine.

I only need ocr for the occasional bill or other typed document.

I have knfb reader for some other stuff, and for the rest if balabolka
or codex can't read it then they are probably not worth my time.

I do hope that they do get this fixed.

I have not invested in omnipage as such but still.

Even though I emailed finereader support well abbyy support about this
issue with menus and delays in nvda, it appears that they never fixed it.

It took ages till I even got an update and then I asked support about
my access fixes only to be told they were not completed.

You'd think they would actually, 1. give a higher priority to get
those fixed and also update sooner.

In sort I really want a program that is reliable and has good support.

As for omnipage, its not even owned by nuance.

Aparently the best abbyy version is v12 but while yes I have my
registration code I no longer have links that work for old abbyy 12.



On 6/09/2020 7:19 pm, Gene wrote:
Why are you disappointed? Also, unless this has changed, Text Cloner
didn't use as good OCR engines. It had two major selling points, one
that it is a very simple program and very easy to use, and two, that
it is inexpensive. In today's environment, I'm not sure either
carachteristic matters much any more and if the program is still more
simple, it may not be worth giving up the added accuracy of products
like Fine Reader and Omnipage. Those are questions those who use
newer versions of these programs will have to discuss to get current
information because things can change so much and so fast in programs.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2020 9:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR






Well good I brought text cloner when I did then.

Its not been updated since 2011 but yeah, at least I have textcloner
now.

I am quite disappointed with abbyyy and their latest finereader product.

I do use ocr and scanning but not as much as I usually did.

Interestingly when I checked you can still buy the product with paypal.

The company you buy from seems to be something completely different
but I am happy I got the program.

I don't use something like this to continuously update anyway.







On 6/09/2020 3:30 am, Robert Logue wrote:


I was going to try Text Cloner Pro but the company seems to be closed.


Text Cloner Pro - Premier AT Home




Start downloading link takes me a log in page with no option to join.




Emailed support and they said they are permanently closed. Actually
said"Sorry we are pertinently closed Does pertinently mean
temporary due to Covid:?I attached their reply.





I'm on vacation so will try the support number I found in another
message.


Text cloner support
1-888-514-9117





http://www.premierathome.com/products/TextClonerPro.php




I hope I can get it but I haven't even had a chance to try it. My
experience with ABBY in the past wasn't so good.





Bob


On 2020-01-08 4:43 p.m., Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:
?
i use abby


----- Original Message ----- From: Quentin Christensen
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 7:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] OCR

Good morning,

Has anyone compared OCR software lately? I had someone ask about
Omnipage 20. I know a few people use Abbyy Finereader, but I wasn't
sure how they compare or what other options are out there currently.

Kind regards

Quentin.



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus




Re: Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

 

Gene,
 
           I'll agree with the "using simulated mouse" part, but not object navigation part.   It makes no sense to separate that out from "accessible" it's just another way the keyboard is used in the current Windows ecosystem to get to things.  And it's probably going to become far more common, not less, and one will look quite foolish if you insist on calling things accessed by object navigation "inaccessible."

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

Gene
 

I am using the numpad for object navigation. But the general definition of accessible is directly accessible through keyboard commands such as working in dialogs or menus or using short cut commands. Using the simulated mouse or object navigation are, of course, done using screen-reader commands but because you are using the keyboard doesn't mean the program is accessible. when using those techniques. I don't know about apps as opposed to applications, but in an application, if commands are not directly accessible from the keyboard, they are not considered accessible as the word is usually used.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2020 2:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

If you're not using the keyboard, of which the number pad is a part, for object navigation then I don't know what you are using.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

~ Oscar Wilde

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