Date   

Re: In-Process for 7th September is out

Quentin Christensen
 

Microsoft Azure is their cloud based service which includes a TTS engine: https://azure.microsoft.com/en-au/services/cognitive-services/text-to-speech/#features

Google also have a cloud service for their TTS engine, and we've had requests to be able to access that as well.

Aside from the question of cost or access to these, the bigger issue is a simple technical one.  Online voices are passable for reading a block of text.  I can give it a command to read this email, it sends all the text off to the cloud based server, processes it, and gets the speech back which it then plays.  There might be a delay of, let's say half a second, while it processes that, and then it reads.  Where it gets harder, is if I want to move through the text letter by letter - if it sends off each letter and takes half a second to get back with it, suddenly it's a lot harder to work with and seems very sluggish.  Regardless of how fast the processing is on the server, there are still going to be small delays just because we are talking about using the Internet.

And that's assuming we have a reliable connection.  Not only does not everyone have a reliable, fast connection, but then a lot of people will be worried about the security and privacy aspects (would you want a third party potentially having access to everything your screenreader reads out?  Or even if you are comfortable with that, having it sent over the internet?  And the more encryption it has, the more processing time it will take at either end).

So yes, having access to those voices seems great in theory, but certainly there would be a number of hurdles to overcome, both technical, philosophical and contractual, before we could consider offering them in NVDA.

Just to pick up on one other earlier point - regardless of anything else, we do have a lot of users who use eSpeak-NG, so we don't have any plans to stop including that any time soon - it is not large, so simply having it included with NVDA is a very minor issue even if you never use it.

I am intending to update the Extra Voices page a bit more (I know there are some synthesizers on there which do not work with NVDA 2019.3 and later, for instance - so my intention is to create a "Legacy" heading and move them there - so they will still be available for those who want them, but it will be clearer that they aren't current).  I'd be very happy to include any other legal voices that people are aware of.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 3:43 AM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I haven't found information about this but I suspect the voice isn't on your
computer.  My guess is that the voice is sent to you in the form of audio
which is played.  This would save a lot of processing power on the user's
machine or device.

The voice may well require far more ;power and storage as to pronunciation
of all sorts of unusual words than to be practical on a home machine and the
voices of these sorts of digital assistants are remarkably good at
inflection and proper pauses, which may require more processing power than
would be desirable to use on a home machine.

Also, my mobile phone doesn't begin to have the power and storage to have
such a voice on the phone itself.  In this case, it’s the Google assistant.
I suspect it is the same for all of them, the voice isn't on the device or
computer.  I doubt a home version of any of these voices is contemplated.
If there were one, it might be disappointing.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2020 11:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out



I'd also like to see the cortana voice added to NVDA without charge. I
really like how she sounds. My favorite voice in the one-core voices is
thefemale voice called Zera. She sounds very clear.







On 9/7/2020 9:04 AM, Leslie wrote:


As I’ve said before, I just love NVDA. And it has all the features I need
being an average computer user.  I do think that NVDA. Should add more of
the truly great voices that are out there.  I love the 1 core voices and I
also love Nuance.  I think that Cortana voice is one of the best.  I’d like
to see her added to NVDA. Without charge.  I think the original voices that
NVDA. Had are now pasee and should be droped because their quality isn’t
good anymore.  What do you guys think?



Sent from Mail for Windows 10





From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2020 12:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out





Hmph, if you are happy to pay a load of cash for each version update  from
freedomscientiffic or visparo etc thats your issue, have issues with
licences, need scripts for just about everything like win98 needs drivers,
are happy with the possible bad technical support issues going about and are
happy that if it screws up you need to repair, reinstall or reformat if it
totally goes nuts, not to mention that visparo like suing everyone under the
sun well more than I'd like, go ahead.

When I used their stuff it was ok, but yeah, I never really had that many
problems with it.

Never got into the payed script racket, either.

I had to repair it once or twice, but that was before it became a beast.

Compaired to nvda well who knows.

The information bandied round the list pluss a few other user experiences
not my own pluss the fact that due to jaws and issues causing me to have to
reformat to make them completely quit, but mostly information on here pluss
what I hear from time to time, especially with how they got all the
competing companies bar dolphin and that probably because they only just
moved out of using internet explorer puts the impression on me that like
microsoft used to be and may still be that this is a monopoly I would really
like to see the back of.

I certainly am happy I no longer use their software, and unless I got a job
which is what jaws is bandied about by various governments and stuff, I
wouldn't touch it unless I had the cash.

To be hhonest this goes for dolphin stuff which is why I got in the beta
program but that was for a completely selfish reason that being smuglers,
its about all I care about now days.

To be honest, I don't much care for a company who is clearly running a
business for the charity, government and enterprise market with prices to
high for average users to buy, and needing expensive upgrades and modules
for remote access with specialised blindy bits and bobs.

Nvda and things like narator have opened me to the mainstream, and with
mainstream devices like the amazon echo devices and smart phones about, when
the new normal comes along, I think some of these things will fall away
sharply.

Dolphin seems to recognise this, so does avast.

So does nvaccess which is why I use them for most of my stuff.

Now there are a few things nvda does not do, but everything has its limits.

But if you plan to use a wordprocesser, a desktop app, a web brouser or
email client or any office app or app using standard controls or terminals
then you don't need jaws for that.



Now some of the mega custom apps and the like specialised programs, will
need specialised software, and yeah, jaws is what you need and will always
need.

Thats not nvda's job.

The job of nvda is to handle all the normal business and home applications
that use standard controls, and the like as well as web interfaces.

To be honest that is what may happen, specialised software will need
specialised software, and will be charged accordingly.

The only reason I'd get jaws is leasy thats about the only reason I'd buy
jaws now.

And to be honest if leasy would just sell its games module then I'd just buy
that.







On 7/09/2020 12:55 pm, Ron Kolesar wrote:



Here’s hoping it would make the Microsoft Flight simulator 2020 program more
accessible.



Unlike it’s predecessor FSX, FS 2020 is not accessible for we who need to
see with our ears.



Even though, all throughout the newsletters and you tube tutorials, it does
have accessibility if your sighted.



This in short isn’t fair.



So, here’s hoping the newer upgrade to NVDA is more accessible for we blind
flight simmer pilots.



Even though, in my opinion, JAWS is a much better program.



Just my opinion.



Ron Ham Radio and Emergency Communication Station KR3DOG







From: Quentin Christensen



Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 19:57



To: nvda@nvda.groups.io



Subject: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out







In-process is out, this week with news on the upcoming NVDACon, a new
accessible graphs project, a space-themed accessible RPG and some general
tips on making software accessible:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-7th-september-2020/







Regards







Quentin.







--



Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager







Web: www.nvaccess.org



Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/



User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda



Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



In the good old days of Morse code Shorthand, 73's AKA Best Regards and or
Best Whishes,From
Ron Kolesar
Volunteer Certified Licensed Emergency Communications Station
And
Volunteer Certified Licensed Ham Radio Station
With the Call Sign of KR3DOG













--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: deleting search querry in word and return to normal use of pgup and pgdn keys

Gene
 

See this page. You can use the go to command, control g. A dialog opens. I played with it. I don't know if it is the same as in your version. By default, it is set for next page. Tab once, press enter, then tab to close and press enter. That will move you to the next page and it will also restore the page up and down keys, when used with control, to their default function.
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/all/word-2016-pageup-and-pagedown-after-using-replace/bdd5d6cb-8d93-4101-b8f2-bb67c8b44e67

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: J.G
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2020 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] deleting search querry in word and return to normal use of pgup and pgdn keys



[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: forgot to write ctrl+pgup/pgdn key and not only pgup/pgdn key]

Hello,

this question is not directly about NVDA, but some years ago I saw topic about searching in word on this list. unfortunately now I cannot find it, so I'm going to ask again. does anyone know what to do that ctrl+pgdn and ctrl+pgup key combinations return to normal use after you search for some string/word in Ms Word?
e.g.: I have a long document and I want to find one string. I open search dialog (ctrl+f) and type querry and press enter. from this stage ctrl+pgup and ctrl+pgdn bring focus to previous or next search result. so how to bring normal behaviour after searching? yes, closing a program is one solution, but I hope, that there is another more comfortable.

thanks.

regards,
Jožef


deleting search querry in word and return to normal use of pgup and pgdn keys

J.G
 
Edited

Hello,

this question is not directly about NVDA, but some years ago I saw topic about searching in word on this list. unfortunately now I cannot find it, so I'm going to ask again. does anyone know what to do that ctrl+pgdn and ctrl+pgup key combinations return to normal use after you search for some string/word in Ms Word?
e.g.: I have a long document and I want to find one string. I open search dialog (ctrl+f) and type querry and press enter. from this stage ctrl+pgup and ctrl+pgdn bring focus to previous or next search result. so how to bring normal behaviour after searching? yes, closing a program is one solution, but I hope, that there is another more comfortable.

thanks.

regards,
Jožef


How to let nvda report what items is or are selected in file explorer?

William
 

Hi,

It seems that nvda can use nvda shift up arrow to report selected text.

But what if it is in a file explorere and I have selected some files or folders?

Any hotkey to report so?

Thanks.


Re: Checking file size in the "Properties" dialog using NVDA

Sarah k Alawami
 

quicker way using laptop keystrokes.
1. Navigate to the file
2. Hit alt enter.
3. Use nvda shift left arrow to go back until you hear size on disk, then nvda shift arrow right once.
4. To repeat hit nvda shift o twice. A 3rd time will I believe copy the thing to the clip board, or maybe it's the forth press of nvda shift o.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 6 Sep 2020, at 17:45, Gene wrote:

I can tell you using commands for the desktop layout. I don't know the laptop layout. But you won't really learn how to use the NVDA navigation modes from this explanation. I haven't used tutorials that teach this so I'll let others discuss those.

To do what you want, open properties.
Go into screen review mode with the command numpad insert numpad 7. That is, hold numpad insert and press numpad 7 while doing so.

Repeat the command until you hear something like screen review mode, though once will probably be enough.
Execute the command shift numpad 7 to move to the top of the screen. Move down the screen with numpad 9. You are moving down the screen by line. You can move very quickly until you hear the information you want. If you want to hear it again, press numpad 8, read current line. If you pass something you want to hear, go back with numpad 7. So numpad 7 is go back a line, numpad 8 is read current line and numpad 9 is move down one line.
Shift numpad 7 moves you to the top of the screen. I'll let you realize what shift numpad 9 does.

After you have finished, be sure you use the command num;pad insert numpad 1 until you are back in object navigation mode. If you don't remember to move back there, you may not get accurate focus when you move around.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Louise Pfau
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2020 7:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Checking file size in the "Properties" dialog using NVDA

Hi. How do I check the file size listed in the "Properties" dialog with NVDA? It was possible to navigate to it with JAWS using the "JAWS" or "invisible" cursors. When I use the similar NVDA reading commands for reading in scan mode, the only thing that is read is the text of the control with system focus, which is usually the "read-only" checkbox that appears when the "Properties" dialog is first opened.

Thanks,

Louise


Re: Checking file size in the "Properties" dialog using NVDA

Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  I've tried several of the suggestions people have mentioned, and they seem to work.  Some of them haven't appeared in the web interface, but did appear in my E-mail.  I use a combination of JAWS and NVDA, depending on the task.

Louise


Re: Latency in NVDA and Citrix

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Ralph,

 

Thanks for replying! How can I find the developer mailing list?

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2020 7:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Latency in NVDA and Citrix

 

You can reach him in the developer mailinglist…

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Sent: Montag, 7. September 2020 19:46
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Latency in NVDA and Citrix

 

Hi Everyone,

 

I see that Leonard de Ruijter has developed an add-on for NVDA using Unicorn to link to NVDA. This looks like an exciting option. I have been told that there are some latency issues but no specific details. I suppose this means a slow response to keystrokes. Does anyone have any experience of using this add-on with Citrix?
Is Leonard on this list?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Latency in NVDA and Citrix

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

You can reach him in the developer mailinglist…

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Sent: Montag, 7. September 2020 19:46
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Latency in NVDA and Citrix

 

Hi Everyone,

 

I see that Leonard de Ruijter has developed an add-on for NVDA using Unicorn to link to NVDA. This looks like an exciting option. I have been told that there are some latency issues but no specific details. I suppose this means a slow response to keystrokes. Does anyone have any experience of using this add-on with Citrix?
Is Leonard on this list?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Latency in NVDA and Citrix

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Hi Everyone,

 

I see that Leonard de Ruijter has developed an add-on for NVDA using Unicorn to link to NVDA. This looks like an exciting option. I have been told that there are some latency issues but no specific details. I suppose this means a slow response to keystrokes. Does anyone have any experience of using this add-on with Citrix?
Is Leonard on this list?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: In-Process for 7th September is out

Gene
 

I haven't found information about this but I suspect the voice isn't on your computer. My guess is that the voice is sent to you in the form of audio which is played. This would save a lot of processing power on the user's machine or device.

The voice may well require far more ;power and storage as to pronunciation of all sorts of unusual words than to be practical on a home machine and the voices of these sorts of digital assistants are remarkably good at inflection and proper pauses, which may require more processing power than would be desirable to use on a home machine.

Also, my mobile phone doesn't begin to have the power and storage to have such a voice on the phone itself. In this case, it’s the Google assistant. I suspect it is the same for all of them, the voice isn't on the device or computer. I doubt a home version of any of these voices is contemplated. If there were one, it might be disappointing.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2020 11:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out



I'd also like to see the cortana voice added to NVDA without charge. I really like how she sounds. My favorite voice in the one-core voices is thefemale voice called Zera. She sounds very clear.







On 9/7/2020 9:04 AM, Leslie wrote:


As I’ve said before, I just love NVDA. And it has all the features I need being an average computer user. I do think that NVDA. Should add more of the truly great voices that are out there. I love the 1 core voices and I also love Nuance. I think that Cortana voice is one of the best. I’d like to see her added to NVDA. Without charge. I think the original voices that NVDA. Had are now pasee and should be droped because their quality isn’t good anymore. What do you guys think?



Sent from Mail for Windows 10





From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2020 12:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out





Hmph, if you are happy to pay a load of cash for each version update from freedomscientiffic or visparo etc thats your issue, have issues with licences, need scripts for just about everything like win98 needs drivers, are happy with the possible bad technical support issues going about and are happy that if it screws up you need to repair, reinstall or reformat if it totally goes nuts, not to mention that visparo like suing everyone under the sun well more than I'd like, go ahead.

When I used their stuff it was ok, but yeah, I never really had that many problems with it.

Never got into the payed script racket, either.

I had to repair it once or twice, but that was before it became a beast.

Compaired to nvda well who knows.

The information bandied round the list pluss a few other user experiences not my own pluss the fact that due to jaws and issues causing me to have to reformat to make them completely quit, but mostly information on here pluss what I hear from time to time, especially with how they got all the competing companies bar dolphin and that probably because they only just moved out of using internet explorer puts the impression on me that like microsoft used to be and may still be that this is a monopoly I would really like to see the back of.

I certainly am happy I no longer use their software, and unless I got a job which is what jaws is bandied about by various governments and stuff, I wouldn't touch it unless I had the cash.

To be hhonest this goes for dolphin stuff which is why I got in the beta program but that was for a completely selfish reason that being smuglers, its about all I care about now days.

To be honest, I don't much care for a company who is clearly running a business for the charity, government and enterprise market with prices to high for average users to buy, and needing expensive upgrades and modules for remote access with specialised blindy bits and bobs.

Nvda and things like narator have opened me to the mainstream, and with mainstream devices like the amazon echo devices and smart phones about, when the new normal comes along, I think some of these things will fall away sharply.

Dolphin seems to recognise this, so does avast.

So does nvaccess which is why I use them for most of my stuff.

Now there are a few things nvda does not do, but everything has its limits.

But if you plan to use a wordprocesser, a desktop app, a web brouser or email client or any office app or app using standard controls or terminals then you don't need jaws for that.



Now some of the mega custom apps and the like specialised programs, will need specialised software, and yeah, jaws is what you need and will always need.

Thats not nvda's job.

The job of nvda is to handle all the normal business and home applications that use standard controls, and the like as well as web interfaces.

To be honest that is what may happen, specialised software will need specialised software, and will be charged accordingly.

The only reason I'd get jaws is leasy thats about the only reason I'd buy jaws now.

And to be honest if leasy would just sell its games module then I'd just buy that.







On 7/09/2020 12:55 pm, Ron Kolesar wrote:



Here’s hoping it would make the Microsoft Flight simulator 2020 program more accessible.



Unlike it’s predecessor FSX, FS 2020 is not accessible for we who need to see with our ears.



Even though, all throughout the newsletters and you tube tutorials, it does have accessibility if your sighted.



This in short isn’t fair.



So, here’s hoping the newer upgrade to NVDA is more accessible for we blind flight simmer pilots.



Even though, in my opinion, JAWS is a much better program.



Just my opinion.



Ron Ham Radio and Emergency Communication Station KR3DOG







From: Quentin Christensen



Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 19:57



To: nvda@nvda.groups.io



Subject: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out







In-process is out, this week with news on the upcoming NVDACon, a new accessible graphs project, a space-themed accessible RPG and some general tips on making software accessible: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-7th-september-2020/







Regards







Quentin.







--



Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager







Web: www.nvaccess.org



Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/



User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda



Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



In the good old days of Morse code Shorthand, 73's AKA Best Regards and or Best Whishes,From
Ron Kolesar
Volunteer Certified Licensed Emergency Communications Station
And
Volunteer Certified Licensed Ham Radio Station
With the Call Sign of KR3DOG


Re: In-Process for 7th September is out

Gary Metzler
 

She is my favorite voice also.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2020 12:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out

 

I'd also like to see the cortana voice added to NVDA without charge. I really like how she sounds. My favorite voice in the one-core voices is thefemale voice called Zera. She sounds very clear.

 

 

On 9/7/2020 9:04 AM, Leslie wrote:

As I’ve said before, I just love NVDA. And it has all the features I need being an average computer user.  I do think that NVDA. Should add more of the truly great voices that are out there.  I love the 1 core voices and I also love Nuance.  I think that Cortana voice is one of the best.  I’d like to see her added to NVDA. Without charge.  I think the original voices that NVDA. Had are now pasee and should be droped because their quality isn’t good anymore.  What do you guys think?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2020 12:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out

 

Hmph, if you are happy to pay a load of cash for each version update  from freedomscientiffic or visparo etc thats your issue, have issues with licences, need scripts for just about everything like win98 needs drivers, are happy with the possible bad technical support issues going about and are happy that if it screws up you need to repair, reinstall or reformat if it totally goes nuts, not to mention that visparo like suing everyone under the sun well more than I'd like, go ahead.

When I used their stuff it was ok, but yeah, I never really had that many problems with it.

Never got into the payed script racket, either.

I had to repair it once or twice, but that was before it became a beast.

Compaired to nvda well who knows.

The information bandied round the list pluss a few other user experiences not my own pluss the fact that due to jaws and issues causing me to have to reformat to make them completely quit, but mostly information on here pluss what I hear from time to time, especially with how they got all the competing companies bar dolphin and that probably because they only just moved out of using internet explorer puts the impression on me that like microsoft used to be and may still be that this is a monopoly I would really like to see the back of.

I certainly am happy I no longer use their software, and unless I got a job which is what jaws is bandied about by various governments and stuff, I wouldn't touch it unless I had the cash.

To be hhonest this goes for dolphin stuff which is why I got in the beta program but that was for a completely selfish reason that being smuglers, its about all I care about now days.

To be honest, I don't much care for a company who is clearly running a business for the charity, government and enterprise market with prices to high for average users to buy, and needing expensive upgrades and modules for remote access with specialised blindy bits and bobs.

Nvda and things like narator have opened me to the mainstream, and with mainstream devices like the amazon echo devices and smart phones about, when the new normal comes along, I think some of these things will fall away sharply.

Dolphin seems to recognise this, so does avast.

So does nvaccess which is why I use them for most of my stuff.

Now there are a few things nvda does not do, but everything has its limits.

But if you plan to use a wordprocesser, a desktop app, a web brouser or email client or any office app or app using standard controls or terminals then you don't need jaws for that.

 

Now some of the mega custom apps and the like specialised programs, will need specialised software, and yeah, jaws is what you need and will always need.

Thats not nvda's job.

The job of nvda is to handle all the normal business and home applications that use standard controls, and the like as well as web interfaces.

To be honest that is what may happen, specialised software will need specialised software, and will be charged accordingly.

The only reason I'd get jaws is leasy thats about the only reason I'd buy jaws now.

And to be honest if leasy would just sell its games module then I'd just buy that.

 

 

On 7/09/2020 12:55 pm, Ron Kolesar wrote:

Here’s hoping it would make the Microsoft Flight simulator 2020 program more accessible.

Unlike it’s predecessor FSX, FS 2020 is not accessible for we who need to see with our ears.

Even though, all throughout the newsletters and you tube tutorials, it does have accessibility if your sighted.

This in short isn’t fair.

So, here’s hoping the newer upgrade to NVDA is more accessible for we blind flight simmer pilots.

Even though, in my opinion, JAWS is a much better program.

Just my opinion.

Ron Ham Radio and Emergency Communication Station KR3DOG

 

From: Quentin Christensen

Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 19:57

Subject: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out

 

In-process is out, this week with news on the upcoming NVDACon, a new accessible graphs project, a space-themed accessible RPG and some general tips on making software accessible: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-7th-september-2020/

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

In the good old days of Morse code Shorthand, 73's AKA Best Regards and or Best Whishes,From
Ron Kolesar
Volunteer Certified Licensed Emergency Communications Station
And
Volunteer Certified Licensed Ham Radio Station
With the Call Sign of KR3DOG

 


Re: In-Process for 7th September is out

Leslie <soundsofmusic@...>
 

Hay, maybe if we can hear from a large number of people who like these voices, maybe we can get them added to NVDA. As nonpremium voices.  We know they are always improving.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2020 9:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out

 

I'd also like to see the cortana voice added to NVDA without charge. I really like how she sounds. My favorite voice in the one-core voices is thefemale voice called Zera. She sounds very clear.

 

 

On 9/7/2020 9:04 AM, Leslie wrote:

As I’ve said before, I just love NVDA. And it has all the features I need being an average computer user.  I do think that NVDA. Should add more of the truly great voices that are out there.  I love the 1 core voices and I also love Nuance.  I think that Cortana voice is one of the best.  I’d like to see her added to NVDA. Without charge.  I think the original voices that NVDA. Had are now pasee and should be droped because their quality isn’t good anymore.  What do you guys think?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2020 12:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out

 

Hmph, if you are happy to pay a load of cash for each version update  from freedomscientiffic or visparo etc thats your issue, have issues with licences, need scripts for just about everything like win98 needs drivers, are happy with the possible bad technical support issues going about and are happy that if it screws up you need to repair, reinstall or reformat if it totally goes nuts, not to mention that visparo like suing everyone under the sun well more than I'd like, go ahead.

When I used their stuff it was ok, but yeah, I never really had that many problems with it.

Never got into the payed script racket, either.

I had to repair it once or twice, but that was before it became a beast.

Compaired to nvda well who knows.

The information bandied round the list pluss a few other user experiences not my own pluss the fact that due to jaws and issues causing me to have to reformat to make them completely quit, but mostly information on here pluss what I hear from time to time, especially with how they got all the competing companies bar dolphin and that probably because they only just moved out of using internet explorer puts the impression on me that like microsoft used to be and may still be that this is a monopoly I would really like to see the back of.

I certainly am happy I no longer use their software, and unless I got a job which is what jaws is bandied about by various governments and stuff, I wouldn't touch it unless I had the cash.

To be hhonest this goes for dolphin stuff which is why I got in the beta program but that was for a completely selfish reason that being smuglers, its about all I care about now days.

To be honest, I don't much care for a company who is clearly running a business for the charity, government and enterprise market with prices to high for average users to buy, and needing expensive upgrades and modules for remote access with specialised blindy bits and bobs.

Nvda and things like narator have opened me to the mainstream, and with mainstream devices like the amazon echo devices and smart phones about, when the new normal comes along, I think some of these things will fall away sharply.

Dolphin seems to recognise this, so does avast.

So does nvaccess which is why I use them for most of my stuff.

Now there are a few things nvda does not do, but everything has its limits.

But if you plan to use a wordprocesser, a desktop app, a web brouser or email client or any office app or app using standard controls or terminals then you don't need jaws for that.

 

Now some of the mega custom apps and the like specialised programs, will need specialised software, and yeah, jaws is what you need and will always need.

Thats not nvda's job.

The job of nvda is to handle all the normal business and home applications that use standard controls, and the like as well as web interfaces.

To be honest that is what may happen, specialised software will need specialised software, and will be charged accordingly.

The only reason I'd get jaws is leasy thats about the only reason I'd buy jaws now.

And to be honest if leasy would just sell its games module then I'd just buy that.

 

 

On 7/09/2020 12:55 pm, Ron Kolesar wrote:

Here’s hoping it would make the Microsoft Flight simulator 2020 program more accessible.

Unlike it’s predecessor FSX, FS 2020 is not accessible for we who need to see with our ears.

Even though, all throughout the newsletters and you tube tutorials, it does have accessibility if your sighted.

This in short isn’t fair.

So, here’s hoping the newer upgrade to NVDA is more accessible for we blind flight simmer pilots.

Even though, in my opinion, JAWS is a much better program.

Just my opinion.

Ron Ham Radio and Emergency Communication Station KR3DOG

 

From: Quentin Christensen

Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 19:57

Subject: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out

 

In-process is out, this week with news on the upcoming NVDACon, a new accessible graphs project, a space-themed accessible RPG and some general tips on making software accessible: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-7th-september-2020/

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

In the good old days of Morse code Shorthand, 73's AKA Best Regards and or Best Whishes,From
Ron Kolesar
Volunteer Certified Licensed Emergency Communications Station
And
Volunteer Certified Licensed Ham Radio Station
With the Call Sign of KR3DOG

 

 


Re: Checking file size in the "Properties" dialog using NVDA

CARLOS-ESTEBAN <carlosestebanpianista@...>
 

Hello.

If you use keyboard layout laptop, the commands are:

First NVDA+shift+up arrow, and after NVDA+page dawn or NVDA+page up. When NVDA says object review, press: NVDA+up and dawn arrow for read next and previous line, NVDA+control+right and left arrow for read by Word and NVDA+right and lefht arrow for read by characters.

Well, other users says the commands for the layout desktop.

Regards.

 

 

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías.

Músico (pianista) y también ayuda a usuarios ciegos y con discapacidad visual, con el uso de lectores de pantalla y tecnología.

Experto certificado en el lector de pantalla NVDA.

 

Musicien (pianist) and also help to the blind people, with the use of screen readers and technology.

Certified expert in the screen reader NVDA.

NVDA certified expert2019

 

De: Rui Fontes
Enviado: lunes, 7 de septiembre de 2020 4:53
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [nvda] Checking file size in the "Properties" dialog using NVDA

 

Hello!

 

Other way is pressing NVDA+NumPad4 to go to the previous object on same

level...

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

Rui Fontes

 

NVDA portuguese team

 

 

Às 01:45 de 07/09/2020, Gene escreveu:

> I can tell you using commands for the desktop layout.  I don't know

> the laptop layout.  But you won't really learn how to use the NVDA

> navigation modes from this explanation.  I haven't used tutorials that

> teach this so I'll let others discuss those.

> To do what you want, open properties.

> Go into screen review mode with the command numpad insert numpad 7. 

> That is, hold numpad insert and press numpad 7 while doing so.

> Repeat the command until you hear something like screen review mode,

> though once will probably be enough.

> Execute the command shift numpad 7 to move to the top of the screen. 

> Move down the screen with numpad 9.  You are moving down the screen by

> line.  You can move very quickly until you hear the information you

> want.  If you want to hear it again, press numpad 8, read current

> line.  If you pass something you want to hear, go back with numpad 7. 

> So numpad 7 is go back a line, numpad 8 is read current line and

> numpad 9 is move down one line.

> Shift numpad 7 moves you to the top of the screen.  I'll let you

> realize what shift numpad 9 does.

> After you have finished, be sure you use the command num;pad insert

> numpad 1 until you are back in object navigation mode. If you don't

> remember to move back there, you may not get accurate focus when you

> move around.

> Gene

> -----Original Message----- From: Louise Pfau

> Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2020 7:28 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: [nvda] Checking file size in the "Properties" dialog using NVDA

> Hi.  How do I check the file size listed in the "Properties" dialog

> with NVDA?  It was possible to navigate to it with JAWS using the

> "JAWS" or "invisible" cursors.  When I use the similar NVDA reading

> commands for reading in scan mode, the only thing that is read is the

> text of the control with system focus, which is usually the

> "read-only" checkbox that appears when the "Properties" dialog is

> first opened.

> Thanks,

> Louise

>

 

 

 


Re: In-Process for 7th September is out

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I'd also like to see the cortana voice added to NVDA without charge. I really like how she sounds. My favorite voice in the one-core voices is thefemale voice called Zera. She sounds very clear.



On 9/7/2020 9:04 AM, Leslie wrote:

As I’ve said before, I just love NVDA. And it has all the features I need being an average computer user.  I do think that NVDA. Should add more of the truly great voices that are out there.  I love the 1 core voices and I also love Nuance.  I think that Cortana voice is one of the best.  I’d like to see her added to NVDA. Without charge.  I think the original voices that NVDA. Had are now pasee and should be droped because their quality isn’t good anymore.  What do you guys think?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2020 12:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out

 

Hmph, if you are happy to pay a load of cash for each version update  from freedomscientiffic or visparo etc thats your issue, have issues with licences, need scripts for just about everything like win98 needs drivers, are happy with the possible bad technical support issues going about and are happy that if it screws up you need to repair, reinstall or reformat if it totally goes nuts, not to mention that visparo like suing everyone under the sun well more than I'd like, go ahead.

When I used their stuff it was ok, but yeah, I never really had that many problems with it.

Never got into the payed script racket, either.

I had to repair it once or twice, but that was before it became a beast.

Compaired to nvda well who knows.

The information bandied round the list pluss a few other user experiences not my own pluss the fact that due to jaws and issues causing me to have to reformat to make them completely quit, but mostly information on here pluss what I hear from time to time, especially with how they got all the competing companies bar dolphin and that probably because they only just moved out of using internet explorer puts the impression on me that like microsoft used to be and may still be that this is a monopoly I would really like to see the back of.

I certainly am happy I no longer use their software, and unless I got a job which is what jaws is bandied about by various governments and stuff, I wouldn't touch it unless I had the cash.

To be hhonest this goes for dolphin stuff which is why I got in the beta program but that was for a completely selfish reason that being smuglers, its about all I care about now days.

To be honest, I don't much care for a company who is clearly running a business for the charity, government and enterprise market with prices to high for average users to buy, and needing expensive upgrades and modules for remote access with specialised blindy bits and bobs.

Nvda and things like narator have opened me to the mainstream, and with mainstream devices like the amazon echo devices and smart phones about, when the new normal comes along, I think some of these things will fall away sharply.

Dolphin seems to recognise this, so does avast.

So does nvaccess which is why I use them for most of my stuff.

Now there are a few things nvda does not do, but everything has its limits.

But if you plan to use a wordprocesser, a desktop app, a web brouser or email client or any office app or app using standard controls or terminals then you don't need jaws for that.

 

Now some of the mega custom apps and the like specialised programs, will need specialised software, and yeah, jaws is what you need and will always need.

Thats not nvda's job.

The job of nvda is to handle all the normal business and home applications that use standard controls, and the like as well as web interfaces.

To be honest that is what may happen, specialised software will need specialised software, and will be charged accordingly.

The only reason I'd get jaws is leasy thats about the only reason I'd buy jaws now.

And to be honest if leasy would just sell its games module then I'd just buy that.

 

 

On 7/09/2020 12:55 pm, Ron Kolesar wrote:

Here’s hoping it would make the Microsoft Flight simulator 2020 program more accessible.

Unlike it’s predecessor FSX, FS 2020 is not accessible for we who need to see with our ears.

Even though, all throughout the newsletters and you tube tutorials, it does have accessibility if your sighted.

This in short isn’t fair.

So, here’s hoping the newer upgrade to NVDA is more accessible for we blind flight simmer pilots.

Even though, in my opinion, JAWS is a much better program.

Just my opinion.

Ron Ham Radio and Emergency Communication Station KR3DOG

 

From: Quentin Christensen

Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 19:57

Subject: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out

 

In-process is out, this week with news on the upcoming NVDACon, a new accessible graphs project, a space-themed accessible RPG and some general tips on making software accessible: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-7th-september-2020/

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

In the good old days of Morse code Shorthand, 73's AKA Best Regards and or Best Whishes,From
Ron Kolesar
Volunteer Certified Licensed Emergency Communications Station
And
Volunteer Certified Licensed Ham Radio Station
With the Call Sign of KR3DOG

 


Re: Work with audio editors in professional way with Nvda possible or not?

CARLOS-ESTEBAN <carlosestebanpianista@...>
 

Hello.

The add-on is here:

Link of the file nvda-addon Audacity Access Enhancements

Regards.

 

 

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías.

Músico (pianista) y también ayuda a usuarios ciegos y con discapacidad visual, con el uso de lectores de pantalla y tecnología.

Experto certificado en el lector de pantalla NVDA.

 

Musicien (pianist) and also help to the blind people, with the use of screen readers and technology.

Certified expert in the screen reader NVDA.

NVDA certified expert2019

 

De: soloman s
Enviado: sábado, 5 de septiembre de 2020 19:27
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [nvda] Work with audio editors in professional way with Nvda possible or not?

 

Could you please on any information on (Audacity Access Enhancement’s)

if it is available.

Hope to hearing from you.

 

On 9/6/20, Luke Robinett <lukeblindgroups@...> wrote:

> 100% agree with others. Reaper is amazing! With the above mentioned

> extensions it is highly accessible. Good luck.

>> On Sep 1, 2020, at 12:35 PM, CARLOS-ESTEBAN

>> <carlosestebanpianista@...> wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> I am agree with the use of Reaper. If you install Osara, you can use this

>> very Good program.

>> I am also use Audacity, and if you go to use Gold Wave, you can install

>> the NVDA Add-on Gold Wave from Josef Lee.

>> A developer have an addon no official for Audacity (Audacity Access

>> Enhancement’s).

>> Regards.

>> 

>> 

>> Enviado desde Correo para Windows 10

>> NVDA certified expert 2019

>> 

>> De: Luke Davis

>> Enviado: martes, 1 de septiembre de 2020 11:11

>> Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>> Asunto: Re: [nvda] Work with audio editors in professional way with Nvda

>> possible or not?

>> 

>> Certainly. I use Audacity for moderate projects, but the thing you should

>> be

>> looking into is Reaper.

>> 

>> Luke

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>

 

 

--

With warm regards

Solomon S

teachsolo@...

 

 

 


Re: In-Process for 7th September is out

Leslie <soundsofmusic@...>
 

As I’ve said before, I just love NVDA. And it has all the features I need being an average computer user.  I do think that NVDA. Should add more of the truly great voices that are out there.  I love the 1 core voices and I also love Nuance.  I think that Cortana voice is one of the best.  I’d like to see her added to NVDA. Without charge.  I think the original voices that NVDA. Had are now pasee and should be droped because their quality isn’t good anymore.  What do you guys think?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2020 12:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out

 

Hmph, if you are happy to pay a load of cash for each version update  from freedomscientiffic or visparo etc thats your issue, have issues with licences, need scripts for just about everything like win98 needs drivers, are happy with the possible bad technical support issues going about and are happy that if it screws up you need to repair, reinstall or reformat if it totally goes nuts, not to mention that visparo like suing everyone under the sun well more than I'd like, go ahead.

When I used their stuff it was ok, but yeah, I never really had that many problems with it.

Never got into the payed script racket, either.

I had to repair it once or twice, but that was before it became a beast.

Compaired to nvda well who knows.

The information bandied round the list pluss a few other user experiences not my own pluss the fact that due to jaws and issues causing me to have to reformat to make them completely quit, but mostly information on here pluss what I hear from time to time, especially with how they got all the competing companies bar dolphin and that probably because they only just moved out of using internet explorer puts the impression on me that like microsoft used to be and may still be that this is a monopoly I would really like to see the back of.

I certainly am happy I no longer use their software, and unless I got a job which is what jaws is bandied about by various governments and stuff, I wouldn't touch it unless I had the cash.

To be hhonest this goes for dolphin stuff which is why I got in the beta program but that was for a completely selfish reason that being smuglers, its about all I care about now days.

To be honest, I don't much care for a company who is clearly running a business for the charity, government and enterprise market with prices to high for average users to buy, and needing expensive upgrades and modules for remote access with specialised blindy bits and bobs.

Nvda and things like narator have opened me to the mainstream, and with mainstream devices like the amazon echo devices and smart phones about, when the new normal comes along, I think some of these things will fall away sharply.

Dolphin seems to recognise this, so does avast.

So does nvaccess which is why I use them for most of my stuff.

Now there are a few things nvda does not do, but everything has its limits.

But if you plan to use a wordprocesser, a desktop app, a web brouser or email client or any office app or app using standard controls or terminals then you don't need jaws for that.

 

Now some of the mega custom apps and the like specialised programs, will need specialised software, and yeah, jaws is what you need and will always need.

Thats not nvda's job.

The job of nvda is to handle all the normal business and home applications that use standard controls, and the like as well as web interfaces.

To be honest that is what may happen, specialised software will need specialised software, and will be charged accordingly.

The only reason I'd get jaws is leasy thats about the only reason I'd buy jaws now.

And to be honest if leasy would just sell its games module then I'd just buy that.

 

 

On 7/09/2020 12:55 pm, Ron Kolesar wrote:

Here’s hoping it would make the Microsoft Flight simulator 2020 program more accessible.

Unlike it’s predecessor FSX, FS 2020 is not accessible for we who need to see with our ears.

Even though, all throughout the newsletters and you tube tutorials, it does have accessibility if your sighted.

This in short isn’t fair.

So, here’s hoping the newer upgrade to NVDA is more accessible for we blind flight simmer pilots.

Even though, in my opinion, JAWS is a much better program.

Just my opinion.

Ron Ham Radio and Emergency Communication Station KR3DOG

 

From: Quentin Christensen

Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 19:57

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out

 

In-process is out, this week with news on the upcoming NVDACon, a new accessible graphs project, a space-themed accessible RPG and some general tips on making software accessible: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-7th-september-2020/

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

In the good old days of Morse code Shorthand, 73's AKA Best Regards and or Best Whishes,From
Ron Kolesar
Volunteer Certified Licensed Emergency Communications Station
And
Volunteer Certified Licensed Ham Radio Station
With the Call Sign of KR3DOG

 


Re: Checking file size in the "Properties" dialog using NVDA

Rui Fontes
 

Hello!

Other way is pressing NVDA+NumPad4 to go to the previous object on same level...


Best regards,


Rui Fontes

NVDA portuguese team


Às 01:45 de 07/09/2020, Gene escreveu:

I can tell you using commands for the desktop layout.  I don't know the laptop layout.  But you won't really learn how to use the NVDA navigation modes from this explanation.  I haven't used tutorials that teach this so I'll let others discuss those.

To do what you want, open properties.
Go into screen review mode with the command numpad insert numpad 7.  That is, hold numpad insert and press numpad 7 while doing so.

Repeat the command until you hear something like screen review mode, though once will probably be enough.
Execute the command shift numpad 7 to move to the top of the screen.  Move down the screen with numpad 9.  You are moving down the screen by line.  You can move very quickly until you hear the information you want.  If you want to hear it again, press numpad 8, read current line.  If you pass something you want to hear, go back with numpad 7.  So numpad 7 is go back a line, numpad 8 is read current line and numpad 9 is move down one line.
Shift numpad 7 moves you to the top of the screen.  I'll let you realize what shift numpad 9 does.

After you have finished, be sure you use the command num;pad insert numpad 1 until you are back in object navigation mode. If you don't remember to move back there, you may not get accurate focus when you move around.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Louise Pfau
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2020 7:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Checking file size in the "Properties" dialog using NVDA

Hi.  How do I check the file size listed in the "Properties" dialog with NVDA?  It was possible to navigate to it with JAWS using the "JAWS" or "invisible" cursors.  When I use the similar NVDA reading commands for reading in scan mode, the only thing that is read is the text of the control with system focus, which is usually the "read-only" checkbox that appears when the "Properties" dialog is first opened.

Thanks,

Louise




Re: In-Process for 7th September is out

Quentin Christensen
 

I'm not touching the rest of it, but I would say two things about Microsoft flight simulator:
- If it's not accessible with NVDA and particularly if it isn't accessible with Jaws (or Narrator) either - the best place to talk to is the Microsoft Disability Answer Desk: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/disability-answer-desk

and

- If it's only or mostly NVDA which doesn't play nicely with it, the best place to report that is to write up an issue on: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues  

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 7:03 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
This is a long message but the gross and very many inaccuracies in the
original message should be corrected.  As I explain in my message, having
accurate information is very important so blind people can make good choices
about if and when to use various programs.

You may have had bad experiences with JAWS but your experience doesn't
reflect the general one.

the reason adaptive software for profit is so expensive is that the user
base is small and the costs of research and development are paid by a small
user base.  Other programs that serve a small or very small user base are
also very expensive.

You can debate whether JAWS is too expensive but either way, it would be
very expensive.

NVDA is largely developed by people making a very low wage, most
;programmers wouldn't work for it and they do so because they are dedicated
to the cause, and a good deal of free work gets done.

If JAWS were as prone to problems and as just plain bad as you say, we would
see questions and complaints constantly on lists, this isn't working, that
doesn't work properly, why is JAWS working in demo mode, that would be a
license problem, and so on.

Your account defies common logic and sense because we don't see such things.
And where are the complaints of employees and employers, where reliability
and productivity are important?

I used JAWS before there was an NVDA and it served me well.  There was this
or that bug, but in general it worked well and was reliable.  I have no
reason to believe that isn't the case any longer.

And, whether you know it or not, NVDA uses scripts so what is your point?
There may be more people writing scripts for NVDA voluntarily but a racket?
Why?  Because people have the Gaul to charge for a valuable service?  As
Biden would say, "come on, man."

In short, both from my experience, which can be argued to be of old versions
of JAWS but also just plain common sense and what I don't see on the
blindness assistance lists I follow, I see nothing to support your very
inaccurate claims and statements.

I won't discuss other things that are important to some JAWS users, such as
the ability to have the user customize it without scripting, which can be
used to tailor performance with many programs so additional scripts are
unnecessary through the use of what JAWS calls frames.  I won't discuss the
screen echo all setting, which at times, presents useful or necessary
information immediately without the need to customize anything.  I used
hyperterminal for years by simply changing the screen echo to all and I didn’t
have to customize a thing.

None of this is to lessen the importance or value of NVDA.  But JAWS is
important for enough people that it matters that it is around and people
should have good information about both screen-readers so that if they want
to try or use JAWS for some reason, they won't be discouraged from doing so.
Also, for demanding users, it is a good idea to have more than one full
screen-reader on a machine even if one is a demo.  At times, I use a JAWS
demo for some purpose where NVDA doesn't do something well or not at all.  I
would imagine that if I primarily used JAWS, I would find times where JAWS
didn't do something as well or nearly as well as NVDA.  As I said, it is
important that screen-reader users have accurate information so they may be
much better able to make good choices in what they use and how.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2020 2:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out



Hmph, if you are happy to pay a load of cash for each version update  from
freedomscientiffic or visparo etc thats your issue, have issues with
licences, need scripts for just about everything like win98 needs drivers,
are happy with the possible bad technical support issues going about and are
happy that if it screws up you need to repair, reinstall or reformat if it
totally goes nuts, not to mention that visparo like suing everyone under the
sun well more than I'd like, go ahead.

When I used their stuff it was ok, but yeah, I never really had that many
problems with it.

Never got into the payed script racket, either.

I had to repair it once or twice, but that was before it became a beast.

Compaired to nvda well who knows.

The information bandied round the list pluss a few other user experiences
not my own pluss the fact that due to jaws and issues causing me to have to
reformat to make them completely quit, but mostly information on here pluss
what I hear from time to time, especially with how they got all the
competing companies bar dolphin and that probably because they only just
moved out of using internet explorer puts the impression on me that like
microsoft used to be and may still be that this is a monopoly I would really
like to see the back of.

I certainly am happy I no longer use their software, and unless I got a job
which is what jaws is bandied about by various governments and stuff, I
wouldn't touch it unless I had the cash.

To be hhonest this goes for dolphin stuff which is why I got in the beta
program but that was for a completely selfish reason that being smuglers,
its about all I care about now days.

To be honest, I don't much care for a company who is clearly running a
business for the charity, government and enterprise market with prices to
high for average users to buy, and needing expensive upgrades and modules
for remote access with specialised blindy bits and bobs.

Nvda and things like narator have opened me to the mainstream, and with
mainstream devices like the amazon echo devices and smart phones about, when
the new normal comes along, I think some of these things will fall away
sharply.

Dolphin seems to recognise this, so does avast.

So does nvaccess which is why I use them for most of my stuff.

Now there are a few things nvda does not do, but everything has its limits.

But if you plan to use a wordprocesser, a desktop app, a web brouser or
email client or any office app or app using standard controls or terminals
then you don't need jaws for that.




Now some of the mega custom apps and the like specialised programs, will
need specialised software, and yeah, jaws is what you need and will always
need.

Thats not nvda's job.

The job of nvda is to handle all the normal business and home applications
that use standard controls, and the like as well as web interfaces.

To be honest that is what may happen, specialised software will need
specialised software, and will be charged accordingly.

The only reason I'd get jaws is leasy thats about the only reason I'd buy
jaws now.

And to be honest if leasy would just sell its games module then I'd just buy
that.







On 7/09/2020 12:55 pm, Ron Kolesar wrote:

Here’s hoping it would make the Microsoft Flight simulator 2020 program more
accessible.
Unlike it’s predecessor FSX, FS 2020 is not accessible for we who need to
see with our ears.
Even though, all throughout the newsletters and you tube tutorials, it does
have accessibility if your sighted.
This in short isn’t fair.
So, here’s hoping the newer upgrade to NVDA is more accessible for we blind
flight simmer pilots.
Even though, in my opinion, JAWS is a much better program.
Just my opinion.
Ron Ham Radio and Emergency Communication Station KR3DOG

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 19:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out

In-process is out, this week with news on the upcoming NVDACon, a new
accessible graphs project, a space-themed accessible RPG and some general
tips on making software accessible:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-7th-september-2020/

Regards

Quentin.


--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
In the good old days of Morse code Shorthand, 73's AKA Best Regards and or
Best Whishes,From
Ron Kolesar
Volunteer Certified Licensed Emergency Communications Station
And
Volunteer Certified Licensed Ham Radio Station
With the Call Sign of KR3DOG








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: In-Process for 7th September is out

Gene
 

This is a long message but the gross and very many inaccuracies in the original message should be corrected. As I explain in my message, having accurate information is very important so blind people can make good choices about if and when to use various programs.

You may have had bad experiences with JAWS but your experience doesn't reflect the general one.

the reason adaptive software for profit is so expensive is that the user base is small and the costs of research and development are paid by a small user base. Other programs that serve a small or very small user base are also very expensive.

You can debate whether JAWS is too expensive but either way, it would be very expensive.

NVDA is largely developed by people making a very low wage, most ;programmers wouldn't work for it and they do so because they are dedicated to the cause, and a good deal of free work gets done.

If JAWS were as prone to problems and as just plain bad as you say, we would see questions and complaints constantly on lists, this isn't working, that doesn't work properly, why is JAWS working in demo mode, that would be a license problem, and so on.

Your account defies common logic and sense because we don't see such things. And where are the complaints of employees and employers, where reliability and productivity are important?

I used JAWS before there was an NVDA and it served me well. There was this or that bug, but in general it worked well and was reliable. I have no reason to believe that isn't the case any longer.

And, whether you know it or not, NVDA uses scripts so what is your point? There may be more people writing scripts for NVDA voluntarily but a racket? Why? Because people have the Gaul to charge for a valuable service? As Biden would say, "come on, man."

In short, both from my experience, which can be argued to be of old versions of JAWS but also just plain common sense and what I don't see on the blindness assistance lists I follow, I see nothing to support your very inaccurate claims and statements.

I won't discuss other things that are important to some JAWS users, such as the ability to have the user customize it without scripting, which can be used to tailor performance with many programs so additional scripts are unnecessary through the use of what JAWS calls frames. I won't discuss the screen echo all setting, which at times, presents useful or necessary information immediately without the need to customize anything. I used hyperterminal for years by simply changing the screen echo to all and I didn’t have to customize a thing.

None of this is to lessen the importance or value of NVDA. But JAWS is important for enough people that it matters that it is around and people should have good information about both screen-readers so that if they want to try or use JAWS for some reason, they won't be discouraged from doing so. Also, for demanding users, it is a good idea to have more than one full screen-reader on a machine even if one is a demo. At times, I use a JAWS demo for some purpose where NVDA doesn't do something well or not at all. I would imagine that if I primarily used JAWS, I would find times where JAWS didn't do something as well or nearly as well as NVDA. As I said, it is important that screen-reader users have accurate information so they may be much better able to make good choices in what they use and how.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2020 2:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out



Hmph, if you are happy to pay a load of cash for each version update from freedomscientiffic or visparo etc thats your issue, have issues with licences, need scripts for just about everything like win98 needs drivers, are happy with the possible bad technical support issues going about and are happy that if it screws up you need to repair, reinstall or reformat if it totally goes nuts, not to mention that visparo like suing everyone under the sun well more than I'd like, go ahead.

When I used their stuff it was ok, but yeah, I never really had that many problems with it.

Never got into the payed script racket, either.

I had to repair it once or twice, but that was before it became a beast.

Compaired to nvda well who knows.

The information bandied round the list pluss a few other user experiences not my own pluss the fact that due to jaws and issues causing me to have to reformat to make them completely quit, but mostly information on here pluss what I hear from time to time, especially with how they got all the competing companies bar dolphin and that probably because they only just moved out of using internet explorer puts the impression on me that like microsoft used to be and may still be that this is a monopoly I would really like to see the back of.

I certainly am happy I no longer use their software, and unless I got a job which is what jaws is bandied about by various governments and stuff, I wouldn't touch it unless I had the cash.

To be hhonest this goes for dolphin stuff which is why I got in the beta program but that was for a completely selfish reason that being smuglers, its about all I care about now days.

To be honest, I don't much care for a company who is clearly running a business for the charity, government and enterprise market with prices to high for average users to buy, and needing expensive upgrades and modules for remote access with specialised blindy bits and bobs.

Nvda and things like narator have opened me to the mainstream, and with mainstream devices like the amazon echo devices and smart phones about, when the new normal comes along, I think some of these things will fall away sharply.

Dolphin seems to recognise this, so does avast.

So does nvaccess which is why I use them for most of my stuff.

Now there are a few things nvda does not do, but everything has its limits.

But if you plan to use a wordprocesser, a desktop app, a web brouser or email client or any office app or app using standard controls or terminals then you don't need jaws for that.




Now some of the mega custom apps and the like specialised programs, will need specialised software, and yeah, jaws is what you need and will always need.

Thats not nvda's job.

The job of nvda is to handle all the normal business and home applications that use standard controls, and the like as well as web interfaces.

To be honest that is what may happen, specialised software will need specialised software, and will be charged accordingly.

The only reason I'd get jaws is leasy thats about the only reason I'd buy jaws now.

And to be honest if leasy would just sell its games module then I'd just buy that.







On 7/09/2020 12:55 pm, Ron Kolesar wrote:

Here’s hoping it would make the Microsoft Flight simulator 2020 program more accessible.
Unlike it’s predecessor FSX, FS 2020 is not accessible for we who need to see with our ears.
Even though, all throughout the newsletters and you tube tutorials, it does have accessibility if your sighted.
This in short isn’t fair.
So, here’s hoping the newer upgrade to NVDA is more accessible for we blind flight simmer pilots.
Even though, in my opinion, JAWS is a much better program.
Just my opinion.
Ron Ham Radio and Emergency Communication Station KR3DOG

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 19:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out

In-process is out, this week with news on the upcoming NVDACon, a new accessible graphs project, a space-themed accessible RPG and some general tips on making software accessible: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-7th-september-2020/

Regards

Quentin.


--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
In the good old days of Morse code Shorthand, 73's AKA Best Regards and or Best Whishes,From
Ron Kolesar
Volunteer Certified Licensed Emergency Communications Station
And
Volunteer Certified Licensed Ham Radio Station
With the Call Sign of KR3DOG


Re: In-Process for 7th September is out

 

Hmph, if you are happy to pay a load of cash for each version update  from freedomscientiffic or visparo etc thats your issue, have issues with licences, need scripts for just about everything like win98 needs drivers, are happy with the possible bad technical support issues going about and are happy that if it screws up you need to repair, reinstall or reformat if it totally goes nuts, not to mention that visparo like suing everyone under the sun well more than I'd like, go ahead.

When I used their stuff it was ok, but yeah, I never really had that many problems with it.

Never got into the payed script racket, either.

I had to repair it once or twice, but that was before it became a beast.

Compaired to nvda well who knows.

The information bandied round the list pluss a few other user experiences not my own pluss the fact that due to jaws and issues causing me to have to reformat to make them completely quit, but mostly information on here pluss what I hear from time to time, especially with how they got all the competing companies bar dolphin and that probably because they only just moved out of using internet explorer puts the impression on me that like microsoft used to be and may still be that this is a monopoly I would really like to see the back of.

I certainly am happy I no longer use their software, and unless I got a job which is what jaws is bandied about by various governments and stuff, I wouldn't touch it unless I had the cash.

To be hhonest this goes for dolphin stuff which is why I got in the beta program but that was for a completely selfish reason that being smuglers, its about all I care about now days.

To be honest, I don't much care for a company who is clearly running a business for the charity, government and enterprise market with prices to high for average users to buy, and needing expensive upgrades and modules for remote access with specialised blindy bits and bobs.

Nvda and things like narator have opened me to the mainstream, and with mainstream devices like the amazon echo devices and smart phones about, when the new normal comes along, I think some of these things will fall away sharply.

Dolphin seems to recognise this, so does avast.

So does nvaccess which is why I use them for most of my stuff.

Now there are a few things nvda does not do, but everything has its limits.

But if you plan to use a wordprocesser, a desktop app, a web brouser or email client or any office app or app using standard controls or terminals then you don't need jaws for that.


Now some of the mega custom apps and the like specialised programs, will need specialised software, and yeah, jaws is what you need and will always need.

Thats not nvda's job.

The job of nvda is to handle all the normal business and home applications that use standard controls, and the like as well as web interfaces.

To be honest that is what may happen, specialised software will need specialised software, and will be charged accordingly.

The only reason I'd get jaws is leasy thats about the only reason I'd buy jaws now.

And to be honest if leasy would just sell its games module then I'd just buy that.



On 7/09/2020 12:55 pm, Ron Kolesar wrote:
Here’s hoping it would make the Microsoft Flight simulator 2020 program more accessible.
Unlike it’s predecessor FSX, FS 2020 is not accessible for we who need to see with our ears.
Even though, all throughout the newsletters and you tube tutorials, it does have accessibility if your sighted.
This in short isn’t fair.
So, here’s hoping the newer upgrade to NVDA is more accessible for we blind flight simmer pilots.
Even though, in my opinion, JAWS is a much better program.
Just my opinion.
Ron Ham Radio and Emergency Communication Station KR3DOG
 
From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 19:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out
 
In-process is out, this week with news on the upcoming NVDACon, a new accessible graphs project, a space-themed accessible RPG and some general tips on making software accessible: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-7th-september-2020/
 
Regards
 
Quentin.
 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

In the good old days of Morse code Shorthand, 73's AKA Best Regards and or Best Whishes,From
Ron Kolesar
Volunteer Certified Licensed Emergency Communications Station
And
Volunteer Certified Licensed Ham Radio Station
With the Call Sign of KR3DOG

10781 - 10800 of 87719