Date   

Re: NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

Luke Robinett
 

Hi Joseph. Right. The DOS box consul is not a text based Consol. It supports DOS applications that run in both text and graphics modes so when it displays text, it’s actually displaying a graphical representation of text. this is why in my first post I was wondering if an NVDA add-on could be created in python that would work something like the following:
1. Monitor the dos box Consol for any changes
2. Anytime a change is detected, apply OCR to convert the consul output to text
3. Compare this OCR snapshot to the previous and announce to NVDA whatever changed, such as the display scrolling, a value on the screen changing, etc.
I am brushing up on my python as we speak and I have identified some library’s that deal with taking a screen capture of the active application as well as OCR. I’m not sure if this exceeds the limitations of what NVDA add-ons are capable of but I figure it’s worth a shot. Plus, it gives me a good project to learn python, if nothing else.


Re: NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi,

]In theory, orca shared library will work on WSL generation 2, but not completely on WSL 1 as older WSL releases support not all Linux kernel system calls. I expect Orca folks would have made necessary modifications in 2020 as the info is from 2019.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Griffith
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

 

Well Joseph

I did carefully look at the orca page before sending my Mail to make sure of my facts.

May not be understanding  the issue but they seem pretty unequivocal that Orca can run in this environment.

I quote below what they say about it.

Note: the ORCA4 Linux shared library version should also work in the Windows 10 linux emulation environment."

 

From

https://sites.google.com/site/orcainputlibrary/setting-up-orca

 

David G.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 12 September 2020 23:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi,

The console itself must provide a way for NVDA to detect and announce text changes. Given the nature of emulators, this becoming real is highly unlikely.

As for WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), a huge correction: you cannot run Orca on it (or if you can, it’ll require additional tweaking). The whole point of WSL is to make it possible for developers familiar with Linux tools to use a combination of Windows and Linux command-line tools and scripts for various tasks.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Robinett
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work, mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later 


Re: NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

David Griffith
 

 

Well Joseph

I did carefully look at the orca page before sending my Mail to make sure of my facts.

May not be understanding  the issue but they seem pretty unequivocal that Orca can run in this environment.

I quote below what they say about it.

Note: the ORCA4 Linux shared library version should also work in the Windows 10 linux emulation environment."

 

From

https://sites.google.com/site/orcainputlibrary/setting-up-orca

 

David G.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 12 September 2020 23:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi,

The console itself must provide a way for NVDA to detect and announce text changes. Given the nature of emulators, this becoming real is highly unlikely.

As for WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), a huge correction: you cannot run Orca on it (or if you can, it’ll require additional tweaking). The whole point of WSL is to make it possible for developers familiar with Linux tools to use a combination of Windows and Linux command-line tools and scripts for various tasks.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Robinett
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work, mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later 


Re: NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi,

The console itself must provide a way for NVDA to detect and announce text changes. Given the nature of emulators, this becoming real is highly unlikely.

As for WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), a huge correction: you cannot run Orca on it (or if you can, it’ll require additional tweaking). The whole point of WSL is to make it possible for developers familiar with Linux tools to use a combination of Windows and Linux command-line tools and scripts for various tasks.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Robinett
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work, mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later 


Re: NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

Luke Robinett
 

Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work, mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later 


Re: NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

David Griffith
 

 

As I understand it and I am no expert the real barrier to running ?Dos applications in modern windows is the 64 bit architecture.

So if you have access to an older Windows running under 32 bit  Windows  Dos programs should still work though obviously NVDA would not support these.

This PC world article seems to confirm this.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3085032/how-to-run-a-dos-program-in-windows-10.html

 

If however you want to practice using Dos Commands at the OS level for disc and file operations or even bat files then of course the vast bulk of these are I think still available simply by running a command prompt in Windows for which NVDA provides good access. I think a combination of sourcing a n older 32bit architecture  for accessing Dos applications and learning the  operations available under the command prompt may be more straightforward  than trying to build in access for an emulator.

 

An alternative approach although a completely different project would be to use the new facility of Windows to now run a Linux machine  within its environment and try using the Orca screenreader in that  to support your investigation. The advantage of this is that rather than rooting back to the largely obsolete Dos past you will be exploring the possibilities of a entirely current command line interface to run and manage apps under that OS to potentially add a lot of value and possible excitement.

– that would be a fascinating project to report any accessibility possibilities there with the whole world of Linux apps available to you. If you managed to develop these skills they may even be transferable to a Chrome OS environment with their similar ability to support Linux shells opening up the possibilities  of Windows/Chrome Book interoperability models.

Certainly beyond me but you could make a name for yourself with such an investigation.

 

 

David G.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: 12 September 2020 22:24
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi Leslie,

 

Fair question. Yup, it’s an ancient and completely outdated operating system. Retro computer stuff is a hobby / fascination of mine so I wanted to poke around and see what I could do in DOS. Maybe re-live my childhood a bit, haha. In other words, just for fun and no practical reason whatsoever.


Luke

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Leslie
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Why do you want to work with such an old environment?  When I first got a computer in 2000, Dos was very, very old, at least in computer programs.  I think I had Windows 5 when I started.  I know my teacher used to like Dos when he wanted to go deep into the computer to do certain things with programs and such.  Does Dos help you with that sort of thing?  This is just my curiosity flowing.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 1:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi folks. I’d like to use DosBox, a piece of software that emulates an MS-DOS environment. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably younger than 30. Lol.) Anyhow, DosBox simulates the text-based DOS prompt but isn’t actually a text application. As far as NVDA is concerned, the DosBox window is all graphics.

Are there any strategies for making something like this accessible for us NVDA users? I’m a developer and recently started learning Python so I can author NVDA add-ons. Could an add-on be created that monitors the DosBox screen and translates it to NVDA-readable text, perhaps employing OCR or something? If so, would anyone want to partner on such a project?

 

Thanks,

Luke

 

 

 


Re: NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

Leslie
 

I sure understand retro things.  I like to listen to OTR. And that’s pretty retro.  I love old buildings, old cars and all sorts of older things, so good luck with Dos Box.  I hope it works great for you.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi Leslie,

 

Fair question. Yup, it’s an ancient and completely outdated operating system. Retro computer stuff is a hobby / fascination of mine so I wanted to poke around and see what I could do in DOS. Maybe re-live my childhood a bit, haha. In other words, just for fun and no practical reason whatsoever.


Luke

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Leslie
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Why do you want to work with such an old environment?  When I first got a computer in 2000, Dos was very, very old, at least in computer programs.  I think I had Windows 5 when I started.  I know my teacher used to like Dos when he wanted to go deep into the computer to do certain things with programs and such.  Does Dos help you with that sort of thing?  This is just my curiosity flowing.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 1:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi folks. I’d like to use DosBox, a piece of software that emulates an MS-DOS environment. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably younger than 30. Lol.) Anyhow, DosBox simulates the text-based DOS prompt but isn’t actually a text application. As far as NVDA is concerned, the DosBox window is all graphics.

Are there any strategies for making something like this accessible for us NVDA users? I’m a developer and recently started learning Python so I can author NVDA add-ons. Could an add-on be created that monitors the DosBox screen and translates it to NVDA-readable text, perhaps employing OCR or something? If so, would anyone want to partner on such a project?

 

Thanks,

Luke

 

 

 


Re: NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

Luke Robinett
 

Hi Leslie,

 

Fair question. Yup, it’s an ancient and completely outdated operating system. Retro computer stuff is a hobby / fascination of mine so I wanted to poke around and see what I could do in DOS. Maybe re-live my childhood a bit, haha. In other words, just for fun and no practical reason whatsoever.


Luke

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Leslie
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Why do you want to work with such an old environment?  When I first got a computer in 2000, Dos was very, very old, at least in computer programs.  I think I had Windows 5 when I started.  I know my teacher used to like Dos when he wanted to go deep into the computer to do certain things with programs and such.  Does Dos help you with that sort of thing?  This is just my curiosity flowing.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 1:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi folks. I’d like to use DosBox, a piece of software that emulates an MS-DOS environment. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably younger than 30. Lol.) Anyhow, DosBox simulates the text-based DOS prompt but isn’t actually a text application. As far as NVDA is concerned, the DosBox window is all graphics.

Are there any strategies for making something like this accessible for us NVDA users? I’m a developer and recently started learning Python so I can author NVDA add-ons. Could an add-on be created that monitors the DosBox screen and translates it to NVDA-readable text, perhaps employing OCR or something? If so, would anyone want to partner on such a project?

 

Thanks,

Luke

 

 


Re: NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

Leslie
 

Why do you want to work with such an old environment?  When I first got a computer in 2000, Dos was very, very old, at least in computer programs.  I think I had Windows 5 when I started.  I know my teacher used to like Dos when he wanted to go deep into the computer to do certain things with programs and such.  Does Dos help you with that sort of thing?  This is just my curiosity flowing.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 1:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi folks. I’d like to use DosBox, a piece of software that emulates an MS-DOS environment. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably younger than 30. Lol.) Anyhow, DosBox simulates the text-based DOS prompt but isn’t actually a text application. As far as NVDA is concerned, the DosBox window is all graphics.

Are there any strategies for making something like this accessible for us NVDA users? I’m a developer and recently started learning Python so I can author NVDA add-ons. Could an add-on be created that monitors the DosBox screen and translates it to NVDA-readable text, perhaps employing OCR or something? If so, would anyone want to partner on such a project?

 

Thanks,

Luke

 

 


NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

Luke Robinett
 

Hi folks. I’d like to use DosBox, a piece of software that emulates an MS-DOS environment. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably younger than 30. Lol.) Anyhow, DosBox simulates the text-based DOS prompt but isn’t actually a text application. As far as NVDA is concerned, the DosBox window is all graphics.

Are there any strategies for making something like this accessible for us NVDA users? I’m a developer and recently started learning Python so I can author NVDA add-ons. Could an add-on be created that monitors the DosBox screen and translates it to NVDA-readable text, perhaps employing OCR or something? If so, would anyone want to partner on such a project?

 

Thanks,

Luke

 


Re: Japanese and Chinese TTS voices?

Clement Chou
 

The Japanese 1 core voice doesn't acknowledge punctuation. So it
depends on the language. English of course works just fine, go figure.

On 9/12/20, Leslie <soundsofmusic@...> wrote:
Good Grief. Someone was saying the 1 Core voices didn’t pause properly. To
me, this is really funny bescause other voices on real people don’t pause
properly. My 1 Core pauses just fine for me.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Larry Wang
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 11:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Japanese and Chinese TTS voices?

You can try XunFei TTS in HKBU addon.

https://www.hkbu.org.hk/en/service/technology/sub-page?page_id=nvda_modules_2020_03

在 2020/9/12 1:21, Clement Chou 写道:
Looking for some new ones to use. The vocalizer ones for both
languages are usable, but don't sound great as others have said about
this tts in general, and the Japanese one especially messes up Kanji
readings quite often. windows 1 core voices are ok, but don't seem to
know how to pause properly... what other voices are people using that
can be purchased and used with nvda?









Re: Japanese and Chinese TTS voices?

Leslie
 

Good Grief.  Someone was saying the 1 Core voices didn’t pause properly.  To me, this is really funny bescause other voices on real people don’t pause properly.  My 1 Core pauses just fine for me.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Larry Wang
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 11:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Japanese and Chinese TTS voices?

 

You can try XunFei TTS in HKBU addon.

 

https://www.hkbu.org.hk/en/service/technology/sub-page?page_id=nvda_modules_2020_03

 

2020/9/12 1:21, Clement Chou 写道:

> Looking for some new ones to use. The vocalizer ones for both

> languages are usable, but don't sound great as others have said about

> this tts in general, and the Japanese one especially messes up Kanji

> readings quite often. windows 1 core voices are ok, but don't seem to

> know how to pause properly... what other voices are people using that

> can be purchased and used with nvda?

>

 

 

 


Re: Japanese and Chinese TTS voices?

Larry Wang
 

You can try XunFei TTS in HKBU addon.

https://www.hkbu.org.hk/en/service/technology/sub-page?page_id=nvda_modules_2020_03

在 2020/9/12 1:21, Clement Chou 写道:

Looking for some new ones to use. The vocalizer ones for both
languages are usable, but don't sound great as others have said about
this tts in general, and the Japanese one especially messes up Kanji
readings quite often. windows 1 core voices are ok, but don't seem to
know how to pause properly... what other voices are people using that
can be purchased and used with nvda?


Re: nuance cerence neural tts for NVDA?

Leslie
 

Wow, where are you finding all these voices?  I thought I’d heard all the Nuance voices and now here are a whole bunch I’ve never heard.  I have all the main once on my desk reader and I love each one.  My reader is the Optelec clear reader.  I can read books with the voices, but the trouble is the curves in bindings of books.  When the reader takes pictures of those, wrong words and trouble ensue.  I had a chance to download all those voices onto my old computer and NVDA.  My teachers and I worked for a whole month and for some reason, I couldn’t download them onto my computer.  They gave me my money back.  I felt so disappointed I didn’t get them.  Now I have one core voices which are great, but I’d still like to get other voices someday.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: valiant8086
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 7:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nuance cerence neural tts for NVDA?

 

Hi.

 

 

I have to admit that I'm not impressed by these voices. They're too

jerky, even more so than the previous expressive versions. Even the

conversational one is pretty bad about it, though i I like how it allows

the artifacts of her voice to show through, you can actually hear her

vocal artifacts like at one point her voice croaked a little, but it was

clearly the real deal rather than concatenation problems. The built in

google voices on Android are starting to get it right, the male one is

expressive and reasonably smooth while some of the vocal artifacts are

being represented.

 

In my opinion, most of the concatenated voices are not reproducing very

well. They're nearly all jerky, and their intonation is just goofy. And

that goes for everybody. About the only ones who don't screw up the

inflections is the ones that don't actually do much of it to begin with,

Cepstral comes to mind.

 

 

For Nuance, a couple of the later versions of Tom are pretty good, as is

Samantha, but the rest meh.

 

 

Ivona is amazing at not being jerky, but they somehow are difficult to

understand, like they're just muttering along or something although

Sally isn't quite so bad as Joey and the others. I vaguely think the

Alexa voice is based off of one of the Ivona voices but I don't know

that for a fact. She is an incredible voice, but being a female, I

understand very little that she says, significantly reducing the actual

usefulness of the echo devices for me. I do much better using the male

voice for the google home devices. I prefer the one called pink although

it has been a while and that voice may not be called that anymore.

 

 

Out of all voices I still find Eloquence and ESpeak, in that order, to

be the easiest to understand for my hearing. I even have difficulty

understanding DeCtalk. The only DeCtalk voices I really understand well

are the earliest ones like 1.8, and the speechmaster2000 that sounds

vaguely similar to very old DeCtalk. Anything newer has a really odd

artifact where it starts tumbling when it gets to read anything that is

longer than 5 words or so. The syllables get shortened and it stops

anunsiating clearly, which, by the way, is another thing that I dislike

about the Nuance voices they all tend to do that too, one notable

exception is Tom. Apple's Alex voice does this badly although it can be

somewhat reduced by running at a very slow speed. It's like those voices

get distracted with what they are reading and they forget to read out

clearly, and so they just start muttering to themselves. Ivona's voices

did not do that.

 

 

One of my favorite voices that I forgot to mention is the LH True Voice

peter. Very plane, sharp, smooth and consistent the only problem was all

the spelling and the excessive inflection when encountering exclamation

marks. That is one somewhat human sounding voice that I can actually

understand well enough to read emails with.

 

 

The main reason that I use Android is because I can put Eloquence on it.

Using the iPhone with the Alex voice is doable, but tends to be a lot

more stressful just for struggling to understand him. If I'm in a car

there is an even wider gap between them, because I am so good at

understanding Eloquence that I only need bits and pieces to make out

what is being said where other voices I really need to hear everything

very clearly and even that's no guarantee. Of course, ESpeak is also

good enough to use I just hate the sound of it.

 

 

RH voice is getting there, it vaguely reminds me of the above mentioned

LH True voice, but it's too much bass and too little mids and highs.

They're a bit quiet. I don't find myself easily able to read emails with

them yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers:

Aaron Spears, AKA Valiant8086 General Partner at Valiant Galaxy Associates "we make (VERY GOOD AUDIOGAMES) for the blind comunity" http://valiantGalaxy.com

 

On 9/11/2020 1:14 PM, Gene wrote:

> The web page where you can read about the voices and find samples is:

> https://nextup.com/cerence/

> Gene

> -----Original Message----- From: Leslie

> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 9:57 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] nuance cerence neural tts for NVDA?

> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

> From: Gene

> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 7:23 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] nuance cerence neural tts for NVDA?

> There is nothing wonderful about those voices.

> Zoey sounds as though she's gargling a little and has stilted inflection.

> She sounds to me as though she is on downers.  The other voice I

> sampled has

> stilted inflection and artifacts as well.  They may be better than the

> Nuance voices that came before, but until these newer synthesizers

> sound as

> good as the Google Assistant or Alexa, or other such very high quality

> speech found in digital assistants, I'll consider them not worth using.

> Gene

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Josh Kennedy

> Where do you find them and how much are they?  I loved the nuance

> voices that I heard before.  I know you don’t like them, Jean, but I’d

> like to hear samples.  I’m one of those people who like to change

> voices every once in a while.  I have many voices on my phone.  They

> add variety as I work.Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 8:39 AM

> To: nvda@groups.io

> Subject: [nvda] nuance cerence neural tts for NVDA?

> Hi,

> Does anyone know if atguys or some other company will be selling the new

> Cerence vocalizer deep AI voices for NVDA? Nextup sells them for their

> text

> aloud product and they sound really good. Voices like conversational Zoey

> sound quite good.

> Josh

> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

>

 

 

 


Re: nuance cerence neural tts for NVDA?

valiant8086
 

Hi.


I have to admit that I'm not impressed by these voices. They're too jerky, even more so than the previous expressive versions. Even the conversational one is pretty bad about it, though i I like how it allows the artifacts of her voice to show through, you can actually hear her vocal artifacts like at one point her voice croaked a little, but it was clearly the real deal rather than concatenation problems. The built in google voices on Android are starting to get it right, the male one is expressive and reasonably smooth while some of the vocal artifacts are being represented.

In my opinion, most of the concatenated voices are not reproducing very well. They're nearly all jerky, and their intonation is just goofy. And that goes for everybody. About the only ones who don't screw up the inflections is the ones that don't actually do much of it to begin with, Cepstral comes to mind.


For Nuance, a couple of the later versions of Tom are pretty good, as is Samantha, but the rest meh.


Ivona is amazing at not being jerky, but they somehow are difficult to understand, like they're just muttering along or something although Sally isn't quite so bad as Joey and the others. I vaguely think the Alexa voice is based off of one of the Ivona voices but I don't know that for a fact. She is an incredible voice, but being a female, I understand very little that she says, significantly reducing the actual usefulness of the echo devices for me. I do much better using the male voice for the google home devices. I prefer the one called pink although it has been a while and that voice may not be called that anymore.


Out of all voices I still find Eloquence and ESpeak, in that order, to be the easiest to understand for my hearing. I even have difficulty understanding DeCtalk. The only DeCtalk voices I really understand well are the earliest ones like 1.8, and the speechmaster2000 that sounds vaguely similar to very old DeCtalk. Anything newer has a really odd artifact where it starts tumbling when it gets to read anything that is longer than 5 words or so. The syllables get shortened and it stops anunsiating clearly, which, by the way, is another thing that I dislike about the Nuance voices they all tend to do that too, one notable exception is Tom. Apple's Alex voice does this badly although it can be somewhat reduced by running at a very slow speed. It's like those voices get distracted with what they are reading and they forget to read out clearly, and so they just start muttering to themselves. Ivona's voices did not do that.


One of my favorite voices that I forgot to mention is the LH True Voice peter. Very plane, sharp, smooth and consistent the only problem was all the spelling and the excessive inflection when encountering exclamation marks. That is one somewhat human sounding voice that I can actually understand well enough to read emails with.


The main reason that I use Android is because I can put Eloquence on it. Using the iPhone with the Alex voice is doable, but tends to be a lot more stressful just for struggling to understand him. If I'm in a car there is an even wider gap between them, because I am so good at understanding Eloquence that I only need bits and pieces to make out what is being said where other voices I really need to hear everything very clearly and even that's no guarantee. Of course, ESpeak is also good enough to use I just hate the sound of it.


RH voice is getting there, it vaguely reminds me of the above mentioned LH True voice, but it's too much bass and too little mids and highs. They're a bit quiet. I don't find myself easily able to read emails with them yet.






Cheers:
Aaron Spears, AKA Valiant8086 General Partner at Valiant Galaxy Associates "we make (VERY GOOD AUDIOGAMES) for the blind comunity" http://valiantGalaxy.com

On 9/11/2020 1:14 PM, Gene wrote:
The web page where you can read about the voices and find samples is:
https://nextup.com/cerence/

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Leslie
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 9:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nuance cerence neural tts for NVDA?









Sent from Mail for Windows 10





From: Gene
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 7:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nuance cerence neural tts for NVDA?





There is nothing wonderful about those voices.

Zoey sounds as though she's gargling a little and has stilted inflection.

She sounds to me as though she is on downers.  The other voice I sampled has

stilted inflection and artifacts as well.  They may be better than the

Nuance voices that came before, but until these newer synthesizers sound as

good as the Google Assistant or Alexa, or other such very high quality

speech found in digital assistants, I'll consider them not worth using.



Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Kennedy

Where do you find them and how much are they?  I loved the nuance voices that I heard before.  I know you don’t like them, Jean, but I’d like to hear samples.  I’m one of those people who like to change voices every once in a while.  I have many voices on my phone.  They add variety as I work.Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 8:39 AM

To: nvda@groups.io

Subject: [nvda] nuance cerence neural tts for NVDA?







Hi,



Does anyone know if atguys or some other company will be selling the new

Cerence vocalizer deep AI voices for NVDA? Nextup sells them for their text

aloud product and they sound really good. Voices like conversational Zoey

sound quite good.







Josh











Sent from Mail for Windows 10























StationPlaylist add-on 20.09.1-LTS to be released on September 14th #addonrelease

 

Hello everyone,

StationPlaylist add-on 20.09.1-LTS will be released on September 14th. I’m giving the community release announcement in advance as the upcoming release will switch users to a maintenance branch for current long-term support version (20.09.x), meant to support older StationPlaylist suite releases. Specifically, version 20.09.1-LTS is only applicable for people using Studio 5.20. If you are using SPL 5.3x or 5.40, do NOT install 20.09.1-LTS; please wait until version 20.10 is released.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Japanese and Chinese TTS voices?

Ben J. Bloomgren
 

I didn’t know that there were any others.

On Sep 11, 2020, at 10:21, Clement Chou <chou.clement@...> wrote:

Looking for some new ones to use. The vocalizer ones for both
languages are usable, but don't sound great as others have said about
this tts in general, and the Japanese one especially messes up Kanji
readings quite often. windows 1 core voices are ok, but don't seem to
know how to pause properly... what other voices are people using that
can be purchased and used with nvda?



Vocalizer trial

Samuel Villa
 

Good afternoon,

I was wondering how I can obtain a trial of Vocalizer for NVDA. If any developers of the project could help me out with this issue, that would be great. Thank you.


Re: Running production build and alpha build concurrently?

Luke Robinett
 

Thanks Gene. Yeah, I ended up installing the alpha build as a portable copy
as not to interfere with the main install and that seemed to work fine.
Thanks for the reply. :)

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 9:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Running production build and alpha build concurrently?

You can't have more than one copy installed but you can have an installed
copy and a portable version on the same machine. You can have as many
portable versions as you want and no installed version if you wish.

The portable versions can't do certtain things, and those limitations apply
mostly to Windows 10. But you may be able to check whatever you intend to
with the portable version.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 10:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Running production build and alpha build concurrently?



I have the latest production version of NVDA installed on my machine but
need to install an alpha build to troubleshoot an issue. If I install an
alpha build, will it replace my normal install or will I be able to have
both versions installed at the same time and choose which I want to run?



Thanks,

Luke


Re: nuance cerence neural tts for NVDA?

Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  I want to clarify that synthesizers like "Vocalizer" and "Eloquence" are paid products when used in conjunction with NVDA.  I've got the "Vocalizer Expressive" voices that came as a series of free downloads for JAWS 16, and I really like them.  I don't think they're listed as available synthesizers for NVDA, even though they're installed on my computer.

Thanks,

Louise