Date   

Re: A more intelligent NVDA OCR?

Hope Williamson
 

Ok nope it really doesn't. I guess that's the one thing I'll keep the
other screen reader for.


Re: A more intelligent NVDA OCR?

Hope Williamson
 

OK will do. Does this work with image PDF documents?


Re: A more intelligent NVDA OCR?

Rob Hudson
 

Find a graphic with text and hit NVDA+r. OCR results pop up in a little virtual window. Hit escape to close.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hope Williamson" <webspinner@mail.com>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 14:19:52 -0700
Subject: Re: [nvda] A more intelligent NVDA OCR?

I've never used the OCR with NVDA, so how do you use it?






Re: A more intelligent NVDA OCR?

Hope Williamson
 

I've never used the OCR with NVDA, so how do you use it?


Re: just a test message

Monte Single
 

There have been lots of messages on this group in the last several days

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joshua Hendrickson
Sent: September 28, 2020 2:46 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] just a test message

I haven't been receiving messages from this group in some time. I just want to make sure I can still receive message and send messages.

--
Joshua Hendrickson

Joshua Hendrickson


just a test message

Joshua Hendrickson
 

I haven't been receiving messages from this group in some time. I
just want to make sure I can still receive message and send messages.

--
Joshua Hendrickson

Joshua Hendrickson


Re: running beta of nvda

 

Hi,
It is useful in alpha builds, but I do understand that it isn't so much for beta releases. The bigger problem isn't swapping debug tone - rather, instructing people as to how to spot these errors and reporting them using appropriate methods. This is the reason why whenever I get bug reports about add-ons (or in some cases, NVDA itself), I ask for a debug log offlist so it can be reproduced and reported to NV Access; in some cases I do come back and report additional findings and let folks know what will happen in a follow-up action.
Perhaps the bigger issue would be teaching people about how to report bugs appropriately. It isn't enough to simply state that you are hearing descending tones. Users and developers would like to know possible steps taken to arrive at a specific problem, including what NVDA did versus what folks were expecting. Even though users might not be able to provide certain details, discussions on this list and elsewhere may provide necessary info for people to help debug and think about solutions (and in some cases, implement them).
Although I do not say this a lot in public, but I feel it is time I say it: I take lack of detailed bug reports and the atmosphere behind lack of effective bug reporting instructions as a personal failure.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Spivey
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 12:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] running beta of nvda

Maybe the solution here is to open issues for every single error we hear that isn't a duplicate of something else, since these are obviously important enough to get the user's attention.

You (and others who are part of the project) don't seem to understand that the sound is useless to most of us.
It comes up so often that it's just background noise. Let's take some simple examples:

1. Restart with add-ons disabled, press control NVDA v, tab twice, hit escape, press control NVDA s to switch synth then hit enter.
You'll most likely get:
RuntimeError: wrapped C/C++ object of type BoxSizer has been deleted

Does this matter to anyone? Probably not, since it's been there for a while.

Next one. Switch to a synth which is an addon, then restart with add-ons disabled. You hear the startup sound, then the error sound.
When you look, you find out that it's just NVDA not being able to load the synth, because addons are disabled, which is a completely expected case. But this shouldn't produce the sound.

There are others, which come up when doing seemingly simple tasks. Alt tabbing just now is a perfect example of something I would not expect to
fail:
Could not register for UIA events for element Why is that important? If it can't register because of a COM Error, it should do something else, or tell you if you debug.

Alt tabbing again, we get another error sound, this time for an unreachable wave player.



On 9/28/2020 11:32 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,

This behavior is intentional – beta is not really a stable build yet,
so NVDA developers are interested in fixing major errors if possible,
hence the debug tone.

Cheers,

Joseph



*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Don H
*Sent:* Monday, September 28, 2020 11:20 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] running beta of nvda



Yep running beta 2 of NVDA

On 9/28/2020 9:35 AM, Chris via groups.io wrote:

Are you sure you are running the beta and not the alpha?





*From: *Don H <mailto:lmddh50@adams.net>
*Sent: *28 September 2020 14:34
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *[nvda] running beta of nvda



Running the latest beta of NVDA on a Win 10 computer. Getting the
error

ding every time I go to a web page with Google Chrome. Also get a
error

ding when I close Google Chrome.
















Re: running beta of nvda

Tyler Spivey
 

Maybe the solution here is to open issues for every single error we hear
that isn't a duplicate of something else, since these are obviously
important enough to get the user's attention.

You (and others who are part of the project) don't seem to understand
that the sound is useless to most of us.
It comes up so often that it's just background noise. Let's take some
simple examples:

1. Restart with add-ons disabled, press control NVDA v, tab twice, hit
escape, press control NVDA s to switch synth then hit enter.
You'll most likely get:
RuntimeError: wrapped C/C++ object of type BoxSizer has been deleted

Does this matter to anyone? Probably not, since it's been there for a while.

Next one. Switch to a synth which is an addon, then restart with add-ons
disabled. You hear the startup sound, then the error sound.
When you look, you find out that it's just NVDA not being able to load
the synth, because addons are disabled, which is a completely expected
case. But this shouldn't produce the sound.

There are others, which come up when doing seemingly simple tasks. Alt
tabbing just now is a perfect example of something I would not expect to
fail:
Could not register for UIA events for element
Why is that important? If it can't register because of a COM Error, it
should do something else, or tell you if you debug.

Alt tabbing again, we get another error sound, this time for an
unreachable wave player.

On 9/28/2020 11:32 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,

This behavior is intentional – beta is not really a stable build yet, so
NVDA developers are interested in fixing major errors if possible, hence
the debug tone.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Don H
*Sent:* Monday, September 28, 2020 11:20 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] running beta of nvda

 

Yep running beta 2 of NVDA

On 9/28/2020 9:35 AM, Chris via groups.io wrote:

Are you sure you are running the beta and not the alpha?

 

 

*From: *Don H <mailto:lmddh50@adams.net>
*Sent: *28 September 2020 14:34
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *[nvda] running beta of nvda

 

Running the latest beta of NVDA on a Win 10 computer.  Getting the
error

ding every time I go to a web page with Google Chrome. Also get a error

ding when I close Google Chrome.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: running beta of nvda

 

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 02:59 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
As for making debug tones optional or suppressing it in beta releases, it should be something that must be taken care of from alpha channel first i.e. let’s ask NV Access via GitHub.
-
Works for me.  But the production of error tones when there are no errors is, quite simply, a philosophical no-go for me.  I don't care if some "benchmark tone" is used, but it should never be what would indicate an error condition under normal circumstances.  And I really, really hope that the tone used is not hard-coded and could be "swapped out" during beta, and swapped back in for release, if there are "spare debug tones" that use error tones during beta.  Ideally, those spare tones should use their own sound.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: running beta of nvda

 

Hi,

One counterexample, although not that intuitive, is desktop watermark shown on Windows Insider Preview builds; they are early beta quality builds so folks expect stability when considering small details.

As for changing the debug tone, this will involve changes at the source code, code branch, and deployment level:

  1. Source code level: debug tone is heard if NVDA detects that you are using a development build. Actually, scratch that – it is actually controlled by a private constant kept by Python to indicate a debug build.
  2. Code branch: there are at least three active branches used by NV Access and NVDA developers to indicate code quality: master/main (alpha), beta, and rc (release/release candidate). Alpha is almost identical to beta branch. The only difference between beta and rc branches is use of optimizations in RC/stable build compilation, hence debug tone will not be heard if using release candidates.
  3. Deployment: whenever changes are committed to NV Access’ copy of NVDA (which is the authoritative copy), a build is generated with help from a module named Appveyor. Depending on what it is told to do (through a YAML file), Appveyor will check which branch the changes come from, whether or not release optimization flags should be specified (both for C++ and Python code), and build appropriate versions of NVDA.

 

Another consideration is communicating errors that developers can catch – not only we get reports from users and try our best to reproduce certain issues, folks use tones as means of debugging and locating errors (whenever we hear a debug tone, we developers would open the NVDA log and read recent tracebacks). This is important as it then allows developers to either fix the issue right away or discuss strategies to do so in the future. For people relying on debug tones for debugging issues, it gives us an early warning so major bugs will not slip to stable releases – this is why when contributors file issues and pull request, if a beta cycle is active and a bug was discovered with a beta build, they are directed to send changes based on latest beta branch commit.

At the moment beta branch is in a “suspended animation” – translators are committing localization updates, and unless critical issues are discovered, the next release from beta channel will be 2020.3 release candidate. As for making debug tones optional or suppressing it in beta releases, it should be something that must be taken care of from alpha channel first i.e. let’s ask NV Access via GitHub.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 11:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] running beta of nvda

 

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 02:32 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

This behavior is intentional – beta is not really a stable build yet, so NVDA developers are interested in fixing major errors if possible, hence the debug tone.

-
But, Joseph, if one is not experiencing major errors, and I am not, and this darned tone is being presented, that, in and of itself, is a bug.

I've had it come up repeatedly when absolutely nothing I can detect is amiss.  I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one, and I'm happy to jump on to the, "this should not be occurring" bandwagon.

You don't intentionally produce spurious indicators, ever.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: Introducing the Quick Dictionary add-on #addonrelease

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

NVDA-X would break my fingers on my left hand, lol. Seriously I think it is free….

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Oleksandr Gryshchenko
Sent: Montag, 28. September 2020 19:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing the Quick Dictionary add-on #addonRelease

 

Guys, can we use NVDA+X ?
It seems to me that it will be quite convenient.
Thank you very much for your advice!


Re: running beta of nvda

 

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 02:32 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
This behavior is intentional – beta is not really a stable build yet, so NVDA developers are interested in fixing major errors if possible, hence the debug tone.
-
But, Joseph, if one is not experiencing major errors, and I am not, and this darned tone is being presented, that, in and of itself, is a bug.

I've had it come up repeatedly when absolutely nothing I can detect is amiss.  I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one, and I'm happy to jump on to the, "this should not be occurring" bandwagon.

You don't intentionally produce spurious indicators, ever.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: running beta of nvda

 

Hi,

This behavior is intentional – beta is not really a stable build yet, so NVDA developers are interested in fixing major errors if possible, hence the debug tone.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 11:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] running beta of nvda

 

Yep running beta 2 of NVDA

On 9/28/2020 9:35 AM, Chris via groups.io wrote:

Are you sure you are running the beta and not the alpha?

 

 

From: Don H
Sent: 28 September 2020 14:34
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] running beta of nvda

 

Running the latest beta of NVDA on a Win 10 computer.  Getting the error

ding every time I go to a web page with Google Chrome. Also get a error

ding when I close Google Chrome.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: running beta of nvda

Don H
 

Yep running beta 2 of NVDA

On 9/28/2020 9:35 AM, Chris via groups.io wrote:

Are you sure you are running the beta and not the alpha?

 

 

From: Don H
Sent: 28 September 2020 14:34
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] running beta of nvda

 

Running the latest beta of NVDA on a Win 10 computer.  Getting the error

ding every time I go to a web page with Google Chrome. Also get a error

ding when I close Google Chrome.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Veracryp's SecureDesktop opt not usable latest trunk

Roger Stewart
 

You can't use NVDA on the secure screen if it is portable--only an installed copy can do this.
Roger

On 9/28/2020 11:57 AM, john doe wrote:
Hello all,

I'm playing with veracrypt's CLI, (1).

when using the '/secureDesktop' option to mount an encrypted file, NVDA
is totaly lost  in the secure desktop password prompt with the latest
trunk release ofNVDA in portable mode.

Command to trigger the issue:

VeraCrypt-x64.exe /v x.vc /l o /q /secureDesktop


It would be awsome if that could be addressed.
For follow-up, please CC me as I'm not subscribed to the list.


1)
https://www.veracrypt.fr/code/VeraCrypt/plain/doc/html/Command%20Line%20Usage.html?id=4a7ed6926b276cf88c2485ea2a5e95b7f91e4ac1


--
John Doe




Re: Introducing the Quick Dictionary add-on #addonrelease

Oleksandr Gryshchenko
 

Guys, can we use NVDA+X ?
It seems to me that it will be quite convenient.
Thank you very much for your advice!


Re: Introducing the Quick Dictionary add-on #addonrelease

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

Control-alt-D

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rob Hudson
Sent: Montag, 28. September 2020 17:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing the Quick Dictionary add-on #addonRelease

Oh, so it is lol.
I was going to suggest control+NVDA+d but that gets you document formatting.
Then I guess NVDA+Shift+E will work. Or NVDA+Y.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Oleksandr Gryshchenko" <kita.zup+groups@gmail.com>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 08:29:13 -0700
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing the Quick Dictionary add-on #addonRelease

No, Rob, it is "Audio mute modes"...

Oh, how difficult it is to choose a free keyboard shortcut...
Ok, please advise me the right combination.
Thank you! ;)







A more intelligent NVDA OCR?

Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...>
 

First of all, just having OCR capabilities in NVDA has been a game changer! It was only recently that I learned you can hit enter on text in the OCR window and NVDA would try to invoke that corresponding control in the application.
With that in mind, it seems like this could be evolved even further. Is the technology available such that NVDA could try to not only recognize text from the app but ascertain the structure of the user interface, perhaps organizing things into form elements like buttons, text fields etc and then presenting them in the same element browser we use for web pages?
Barring that, perhaps a more immediately reachable upgrade would be different actions we can take on items in the OCR result. For example, instead of just the option to hit enter to invoke something, what about a Context menu that lets you invoke it or simply position the mouse cursor where that element was found?
I’m not a python developer so take these as suggestions from a layman, but if possible, I think it would frankly revolutionize NVDA. I Work with a lot of music recording/production software and much of it is completely inaccessible, relying on highly visual interfaces that screen readers have no handle into. Something like what I’ve described would really be amazing for these types of programs. Thanks!


Veracryp's SecureDesktop opt not usable latest trunk

john doe
 

Hello all,

I'm playing with veracrypt's CLI, (1).

when using the '/secureDesktop' option to mount an encrypted file, NVDA
is totaly lost in the secure desktop password prompt with the latest
trunk release ofNVDA in portable mode.

Command to trigger the issue:

VeraCrypt-x64.exe /v x.vc /l o /q /secureDesktop


It would be awsome if that could be addressed.
For follow-up, please CC me as I'm not subscribed to the list.


1)
https://www.veracrypt.fr/code/VeraCrypt/plain/doc/html/Command%20Line%20Usage.html?id=4a7ed6926b276cf88c2485ea2a5e95b7f91e4ac1


--
John Doe


Re: waterfox issues still not solved

 

How do you get it to do this in chrome or brave?

The only thing I get is an alert stating there is a download, I then have to hit controlj then choose keep or discard.

This would be mainly for executables or microsoft installer packages the rest I don't mind if it saves including audio.

On 28/09/2020 9:23 pm, Gene wrote:
You can make the dialog pop up in your face with Firefox or Chrome or Brave. I have it pop up so that I can rename the file if I wish or change the download location, though I choose one place for all downloads, then don't change it.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 12:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] waterfox issues still not solved

Hi.

Well, sent another comment at waterfox devs, they seem to think its just
javascript on sites and seem to have no interest fixing it.

Waterfox 2020.08 has no issue which is what I am running now, after
profile refreshes, and restores, and everything short of a full reformat
I can confirm its definitely 09 and possably firefox as well.

If this is true, this may mean the end of any fox brouser.

The biggest thing that attract me are the download dialogs in waterfox
classic.

Chrome has one if you go to downloads but I like the dialog for
downloads popping up in my face because unless I look for it its hard to
fiss.









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