I had so much fun preparing two "thunderclaps" for Nvda-Con, I decided I want to do a tutorial on object nav that approaches it differently than previous efforts. Hopefully it can be something for next year's con.

Anyway, I mostly use object nav with in-house software for my job, so I need to find something free that makes good practice material. Something that really lets you exercise all the ins and outs of navigating objects.

Does anyone have a recommendation for software or a Windows 10 app that is completely accessible if you use object nav and mouse clicking to work with its features?

--Debee

does anyone have experience with amazon music? i can't edit my playlist there. nvda tells me that it is an embedded object and i press the enter key as i read in the user manual. now i should be able to navigate in this object, but nvda just says <grid>, whatever that means. it would be nice if someone could help.

Hello,

Actually, I find this topic quite valuable, and definitely see how it relates to NVDA. What I don't like, as an admin, is the fact that other mailing lists were carbon-copied on this message, and would ask that this not continue. While bluetooth headphones in themselves don't seem relevant, asking for opinions on a decent one which will work with low-latency with NVDA seems to fit the purpose of the list just fine.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 10:57 AM Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...> wrote:

On the other hand, if you are looking into switching to bluetooth
headphones, I would strongly recommend to look into APTX LL bluetooth
codec - it works with only 30ms latency - not noticeable by human ear.
You'd need to buy a transmitter that supports it and headphones that
support it. I have been using this configuration for years and it is
well worth it. If you're interested - ping me offline - I think admins
here don't like topics not related to NVDA.

On 12/2/2020 6:28 PM, Bhavya shah wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> This may come off as an odd request, but I do need it to simulate a
> certain scenario. I would like to have NVDA's speech - with the same
> voice settings and my same ESpeak-NG - be outputted but with a delay
> of 150 ms. Latency is generally frowned upon, yes, but I would like to
> artificially manufacture it at present. Is there some way of doing
> this?
>
> For context, I am aware that standard Bluetooth audio (sans low
> latency audio codecs) typically have an associated latency of 150-250
> ms. Since I do not have the required equipment to test that
> practically, I want to emulate that latency with NVDA on my laptop
> speakers so as to get a sense of how much a couple hundred
> milliseconds of delay is likely to affect me in the real world.
>
> Thanks.
>

--

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Hi

I think you have said it. I found, using the Braille Sense, that if I
used Narrator to read braille I could no longer use the Braille Sense
with NVDA.

I hope someone on here can tell you how to get out of this hole, because
I don't know the answer.

pele West

If I understand what is wanted, when moving to the check box, the person
who the message is from is wanted to be read before anything else.  I'm
not sure if check box checked or unchecked is wanted to be read or
when.  Screen-readers exist in complex environments and there are times
when, for whatever reasons, human intervention is needed to get what you
want read when you want it read.  Sometimes, this isn't possible and
sometimes it is.  In this case, all I have to do in the simple HTML view
is to type the letter x to move to a check box, then immediately down
arrow.  The sender of the message is read immediately.


Implementing a feature where the first line below a check box is read in
general or at least on some web sites may not be a good solution.  It
may do what is wanted on this or that site and not on others where it
may create unwanted verbosity.


I suppose it might be tailored for a specific site but something like
that, I would think, would probably be done by an Add-on, such as a
GMail add-on.

But this concept of helping a screen-reader is important and my
impression is that a lot of users don't do this.


I'll give two examples:

When I use NVDA's browse mode search, if I don't use read current line,
I hear all sorts of unwanted verbosity before what is found is read.  If
I issue the search command, then use the read current navigator
;position, numpad 8 in  the desktop layout, what is wanted is read
immediately.


I don't recall now if I issue a find command, wait for NVDA to start
speaking, then issue the read current line command, or if I issue the
find command, then wait a moment and issue the read current line command
even before speech has begun.  You can experiment and see if both work.


This greatly improves the efficiency of the Browse Mode find command and
it becomes automatic after a little while, which is the reason I don't
recall the exact time when I issue the command.


When you repeat a search, numpad insert, f3 on the main keyboard, what
is wanted is read without doing anything else.  That is the desktop
layout command for repeat search.


Here is the other example:

In Outlook and in Thunderbird, I have seen behavior complained of such
as when you open a message, you hear unwanted information read or read
and repeated.  The solution is to open the message, then issue the read
to end command.  You can experiment.  You may have to wait a moment,
just how long you  can determine before the command is able to work,
probably depending on when the message finishes loading.  You don't have
to wait until speech automatically begins.  Using this command becomes
automatic after a little while and greatly increases efficiency and
causes you to hear little or no unwanted verbosity.


Gene

On 12/3/2020 12:33 AM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

I'm not sure if I made my point clear enough on this. I am used to the
way System Access reads things, which is that when tabbing through and
landing on the checkboxes, it reads who the message is from right away
without having to use any extra table commands. Is there some way this
can be implemented in NVDA? It seems like there are situations like
this all over the web.

On 12/2/20, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Bob
I can’t comment on the Outlook issues but regarding the Gmail basic HTML
view, when you are browsing the list of messages, you are in a table, so
use
the table reading commands rather than just tabbing. These are
Control+alt+left/right/up/down arrows, so, for example you can move up
and
down the subject column to read them. Personally, I hate the gmail
interface and have linked my gmail account to the W10 mail app and find
it
much easier to manage.

Cheers
Chris

From: Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: 02 December 2020 05:32
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] two different problems with NVDA and reading email

H

Dear all,

This may come off as an odd request, but I do need it to simulate a
certain scenario. I would like to have NVDA's speech - with the same
voice settings and my same ESpeak-NG - be outputted but with a delay
of 150 ms. Latency is generally frowned upon, yes, but I would like to
artificially manufacture it at present. Is there some way of doing
this?

For context, I am aware that standard Bluetooth audio (sans low
latency audio codecs) typically have an associated latency of 150-250
ms. Since I do not have the required equipment to test that
practically, I want to emulate that latency with NVDA on my laptop
speakers so as to get a sense of how much a couple hundred
milliseconds of delay is likely to affect me in the real world.

Thanks.

Folks:

I'm looking for advice on reducing the verbosity of the message grouping info in Microsoft outlook.

As you navigate through messages, tasks, notes, or any other Outlook items that have been sorted and grouped, there is an extremely long announcement that happens whenever you transition from one group to another. Groups can be date ranges, priority flags, labels, etc. depending on how you've sorted your items. Sometimes the grouping info actually seems to be spoken twice which makes it even worse. The final frustration of the problem is that the relevant information about the newly selected Outlook item is spoken after the grouping information, which means you need to sit through a flood of overly-verbose and redundant TTS before you can get to the info ab out the current item.

For example, inbox messages are grouped by "today," "Yesterday," "last week," etc. If you're arrowing down through the message list, the info about each message is spoken as it is selected (e.g., subject, sender, arrival time, etc.). However, when you arrow from the first message of Today to the last message from Yesterday, NVDA speaks a bunch of info about the newly selected group before speaking the expected message info. Depending on the grouping and sorting criteria, this can be quite a bit of verbiage...

A relatively tame example of a grouping message is: "Group by: Expanded: Date: Yesterday grouping Group by: Expanded: Date: Yesterday Selected: Expanded" These messages can be much longer if you've sorted by criteria in addition to date.

Obviously we need access to the info about these groupings, but I find the way it's presented to be extremely frustrating. Can anybody tell me how to reduce this verbosity or to improve the user experience with this?

BTW, I recently installed the Outlook Extended add-on which is really cool. I was hoping the authors might have included some mechanism for managing this problem, but unfortunately not yet.

Best to all!

--JAM

Dear all,

This may come off as an odd request, but I do need it to simulate a
certain scenario. I would like to have NVDA's speech - with the same
voice settings and my same ESpeak-NG - be outputted but with a delay
of 150 ms. Latency is generally frowned upon, yes, but I would like to
artificially manufacture it at present. Is there some way of doing
this?

For context, I am aware that standard Bluetooth audio (sans low
latency audio codecs) typically have an associated latency of 150-250
ms. Since I do not have the required equipment to test that
practically, I want to emulate that latency with NVDA on my laptop
speakers so as to get a sense of how much a couple hundred
milliseconds of delay is likely to affect me in the real world.

Thanks.

Hi Ann,
Maybe see if the following setting helps:

* NVDA Key/Insert + N (open NVDA settings)
* Select 'Preferences';
* Select 'Settings';
* Select 'Keyboard'; and
* check the box for, "Allow skim reading in Say All."
I had a similar problem and this seemed to address it.

I hope this or one of the other suggestions helps!

Kristina