Date   

Re: ribbon menues

Gene
 

That's a terrible idea. For one thing, the special interface causes problems and inefficiencies. For another, it is not difficult for most users, with proper instruction, to learn real ribbons and the JAWS developers did blind people no favor convincing many that ribbons are just too unwieldy and inaccessible for blind people to use. That is just absolute nonsense. For a third reason, tutorials for blind users and instructions for sighted users use the real ribbons. The amount someone is limiting themselves by using the special interface is staggering.

There are times when special interfaces may be justified but the justification must really be substantial, which isn't the case here.

I may still have a book mark to a detailed discussion about problems caused by the ribbon menu interface in terms of inefficiency. I'll send the web page address if I can find it.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Don H
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2020 5:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] ribbon menues

I have learned to work with ribbon menues. Having said that I really
like the virtual ribbon menu function when using jaws. Would really
like to see this virtual ribbon function added to NVDA.


ribbon menues

Don H
 

I have learned to work with ribbon menues. Having said that I really like the virtual ribbon menu function when using jaws. Would really like to see this virtual ribbon function added to NVDA.


Re: Changing the Email Address for Your Groups.io Account #adminnotice

Kevin Cussick
 

thanks, will save this just encase.

On 04/12/2020 19:06, Brian Vogel wrote:
Hello All,
          Every once in a while I post tutorials on how to use features of Groups.io that can make your life much easier.  In this case, it's when you want to change the e-mail address associated with your Groups.io account.   If you're subscribed to only one or two Groups.io groups, then the old unsubscribe-resubscribe method using the new address is fine, but if you're subscribed to many groups this gets old, fast.  It also means that you will end up being put back on first message moderated status for all those groups where you unsubscribed and resubscribed, because Groups.io has no idea that this is a change for an existing user, and treats you as a brand new user of Groups.io.
           If you want to change the e-mail address associated with your Groups.io Account, and by extension that means for all the groups you've subscribed to using that address, then try these instructions after you download and review them:
Changing the Email Address for Your Groups.io Account <https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1f3zlutbqRJ10rIIOLQitJJyz9LtmqhnQ> (docx)
--
Brian -Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042
*/If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind./*
        ~ Thomas Reed Powell


NVDACon starts in 7 minutes

Adriani Botez
 

Dear all,

 

come and join us in 7 minutes when the opening forum of NVDACon 2020 starts. Follow this link to find out how to join!

https://www.nvdacon.org/how-to-join-us

 

 

Best

Adriani

 


Re: shortcut to list data filled cells in EXCEL

 

Just to be clear, are you saying that JAWS has a command in its Excel script that allows you to generate a list of all cells in a worksheet that have data in them, and to navigate that list directly?

I know how to jump to the next cell with data in it from wherever I am (and it works down columns then, I believe, jumps to the next column when the last populated cell in a given column has been reached, but I can't remember having done that jump in a very long time).  CTRL+Down Arrow jumps to the next cell with data in it.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Changing the Email Address for Your Groups.io Account #adminnotice

 

Hello All,

          Every once in a while I post tutorials on how to use features of Groups.io that can make your life much easier.  In this case, it's when you want to change the e-mail address associated with your Groups.io account.   If you're subscribed to only one or two Groups.io groups, then the old unsubscribe-resubscribe method using the new address is fine, but if you're subscribed to many groups this gets old, fast.  It also means that you will end up being put back on first message moderated status for all those groups where you unsubscribed and resubscribed, because Groups.io has no idea that this is a change for an existing user, and treats you as a brand new user of Groups.io.

           If you want to change the e-mail address associated with your Groups.io Account, and by extension that means for all the groups you've subscribed to using that address, then try these instructions after you download and review them:

Changing the Email Address for Your Groups.io Account (docx)
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Re: NVDA Verbosity for Grouping and sorting messages in Outlook - Can it be changed?

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

To reduce the announcements in the message list go to the document settings with NVDA-Control-D, press alt-t twice to find the table section and disable announcements of tables, table headings and cell coordinates.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Malykh
Sent: Donnerstag, 3. Dezember 2020 18:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Grouping and sorting messages in Outlook

 

I can't help you with Outlook, but I just wanted to mention that this is one of the annoyances that prompted me to look for an alternative email client - and that's how I found Thunderbird. In terms of verbosity it is much better. So if you are not bound to outlook, fwiw you can consider Thunderbird as well.

--Tony

On 11/4/2020 10:14 AM, Josh Miele wrote:

Folks:

I'm looking for advice on reducing the verbosity of the message grouping info in Microsoft outlook.

As you navigate through messages, tasks, notes, or any other Outlook items that have been sorted and grouped, there is an extremely long announcement that happens whenever you transition from one group to another. Groups can be date ranges, priority flags, labels, etc. depending on how you've sorted your items. Sometimes the grouping info actually seems to be spoken twice which makes it even worse. The final frustration of the problem is that the relevant information about the newly selected Outlook item is spoken after the grouping information, which means you need to sit through a flood of overly-verbose and redundant TTS before you can get to the info ab out the current item.

For example, inbox messages are grouped by "today," "Yesterday," "last week," etc. If you're arrowing down through the message list, the info about each message is spoken as it is selected (e.g., subject, sender, arrival time, etc.). However, when you arrow from the first message of Today to the last message from Yesterday, NVDA speaks a bunch of info about the newly selected group before speaking the expected message info. Depending on the grouping and sorting criteria, this can be quite a bit of verbiage...

A relatively tame example of a grouping message is: "Group by: Expanded: Date: Yesterday grouping Group by: Expanded: Date: Yesterday Selected: Expanded" These messages can be much longer if you've sorted by criteria in addition to date.

Obviously we need access to the info about these groupings, but I find the way it's presented to be extremely frustrating. Can anybody tell me how to reduce this verbosity or to improve the user experience with this?

BTW, I recently installed the Outlook Extended add-on which is really cool. I was hoping the authors might have included some mechanism for managing this problem, but unfortunately not yet.

Best to all!

--JAM


Re: NVDACon 2020 - rules for the conference

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías
 

Hello.

In various days after of the conference, the recordings are abailable in the site nvdacon.org.

Regards.

 

 

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías.

Soporte a usuarios, comunidad hispanohablante de NVDA.

Web www.nvda.es

Experto certificado en NVDA

 

De: Margus Ojaots
Enviado: viernes, 4 de diciembre de 2020 12:16
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [nvda] NVDACon 2020 - rules for the conference

 

h

 


Re: NVDACon 2020 - rules for the conference

 

Hi,
The conference will be recorded and the recordings will be made available once they are done.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Margus Ojaots
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2020 9:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDACon 2020 - rules for the conference

hi. is there any way to listen the conference after it is over, are there any recordings?

2020-12-04 19:03 GMT +02:00, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@gmail.com>:
Dear all,



only about 4 hours remaining until NVDACon 2020 begins! Let's make it
to a historic event, one that produces impact for all of us in a positive way!
To
make sure that we all are treated equally, please make sure that you
respect some very important rules as follows:

1. In your team talk, please enable push to talk in the general
settings so that your background sound does not disturb others when
speaking

2. Please enable echo reduction in the sound system settings of
the team talk app or software

3. Please give you a name when entering the conference. Users
with
no name will be kicked out after 5 minutes. We have to make sure that
we can differ between users so that every one has the occasion to
speak and raise its questions

4. Please respect all the moral rules. We will not accept
statements / content that imply violent, sexual, demeaning or in any
other way discrinimatory behavior



The code of conduct for the NVDA project applies in the same way for
the NVDACon. Please read the code of conduct below and treat any
participant with respect and kindness.

<https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md>
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md



Let's bridge the distance!



Best regards

Adriani









Re: NVDACon 2020 - rules for the conference

Margus Ojaots
 

hi. is there any way to listen the conference after it is over, are
there any recordings?

2020-12-04 19:03 GMT +02:00, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@gmail.com>:

Dear all,



only about 4 hours remaining until NVDACon 2020 begins! Let's make it to a
historic event, one that produces impact for all of us in a positive way!
To
make sure that we all are treated equally, please make sure that you
respect
some very important rules as follows:

1. In your team talk, please enable push to talk in the general
settings so that your background sound does not disturb others when
speaking

2. Please enable echo reduction in the sound system settings of
the team talk app or software

3. Please give you a name when entering the conference. Users
with
no name will be kicked out after 5 minutes. We have to make sure that we
can
differ between users so that every one has the occasion to speak and raise
its questions

4. Please respect all the moral rules. We will not accept
statements / content that imply violent, sexual, demeaning or in any other
way discrinimatory behavior



The code of conduct for the NVDA project applies in the same way for the
NVDACon. Please read the code of conduct below and treat any participant
with respect and kindness.

<https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md>
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md



Let's bridge the distance!



Best regards

Adriani









NVDACon 2020 - rules for the conference

Adriani Botez
 

Dear all,

 

only about 4 hours remaining until NVDACon 2020 begins! Let’s make it to a historic event, one that produces impact for all of us in a positive way! To make sure that we all are treated equally, please make sure that you respect some very important rules as follows:

1.           In your team talk, please enable push to talk in the general settings so that your background sound does not disturb others when speaking

2.           Please enable echo reduction in the sound system settings of the team talk app or software

3.           Please give you a name when entering the conference. Users with no name will be kicked out after 5 minutes. We have to make sure that we can differ between users so that every one has the occasion to speak and raise its questions

4.           Please respect all the moral rules. We will not accept statements / content that imply violent, sexual, demeaning or in any other way discrinimatory behavior

 

The code of conduct for the NVDA project applies in the same way for the NVDACon. Please read the code of conduct below and treat any participant with respect and kindness.

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md

 

Let’s bridge the distance!

 

Best regards

Adriani

 


Re: Seeking recommendations for app to practice object nav

Gene
 

I'll add that I don't have Windows 10 so I used an example that I am familiar with but the principles are the same everywhere.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene via groups.io
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2020 10:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Seeking recommendations for app to practice object nav

For clarity and a more complete discussion, I'll add that you also can't
move to the right to another object while in the Notepad document window.
You can, however, move to the left to another object and then farther to the
left to other objects. You can move from the document window to the next
object to the left which is the application menu, then move down into it and
move to the right by object to see all the menu objects. Each menu is a
different object.
You can have the student open a doccument in Notepad and demonstrate how the
entire document is one object and you can use NVDA object review keys to
move through the document by line, by word, and by carachter. Showing in
this way the vastly different sizes of objects and how to move through an
object as well as to different objects is the kind of concrete experience I
have in mind that will allow the student to develop a conception of how to
work with objects and on a concrete level, what they are.

I'm not particularly concerned with what programs are used, as long as they
are good for teaching and demonstration. I used Notepad because that is a
good program, and a very commonly used program so everyone will have it and
can practice with it.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene via groups.io
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2020 10:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Seeking recommendations for app to practice object nav

I don't know how the training material available for purchase teaches object
navigation. I strongly believe that for most people, while a little
explanation is helpful, beyond talking about something being inside of
something else, and giving examples of an object, that it may be as large as
an entire document or as small as a button or check box or other control,
beyond that the best way to teach it is with very concrete examples and
concrete steps.

For example, open notepad, and then give precise directions for movement so
the student can see how he is moving. For example, you are now in the
document wwindow. If you move to the object to the left, you will be at
whatever. If you move to the object to the right, you will be at whatever,
If you move up to the higher object, you will be wherever. If you try to
move down into another object while in the document window, you can't,
because there isn't one. You move to an object, then down into it if you
want to work with it. You can use analogies, finding a shoe, then putting
it on, for example. Each object can be moved through if the object contains
more than one thing, and each object can be moved in and out of either up,
down, to the left, and to the right. In order to move out of an object,
there must be another object to move into and it can be very easily
demonstrated that NVDA will tell you if there is no object in the direction
you are moving.

I learned object navigation mostly by moving around as I described and
seeing where I was. I looked at just a little explanation and found
anything more than that to be meaningless and confusing, actually, it might
have been discouraging if I hadn't had enough experience to know that I
could learn as I described and thus applied that method. Somepeople can
learn that way mostly on their own, a lot of people can't but I believe
that, if directed, they could learn well that way in this context.

This is something where the actual experience is important and where
abstract description serves few people well other than as a general
framework such as I described above. As far as particular programs and apps
are concerned, I haven't used enough to give a lot of exazmples, but any
simple program like Notepad furnishes an excellent introduction if taught
well.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Deborah Armstrong
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2020 9:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Seeking recommendations for app to practice object nav

I had so much fun preparing two "thunderclaps" for Nvda-Con, I decided I
want to do a tutorial on object nav that approaches it differently than
previous efforts. Hopefully it can be something for next year's con.

Anyway, I mostly use object nav with in-house software for my job, so I need
to find something free that makes good practice material. Something that
really lets you exercise all the ins and outs of navigating objects.

Does anyone have a recommendation for software or a Windows 10 app that is
completely accessible if you use object nav and mouse clicking to work with
its features?

--Debee


Re: Seeking recommendations for app to practice object nav

Gene
 

For clarity and a more complete discussion, I'll add that you also can't move to the right to another object while in the Notepad document window. You can, however, move to the left to another object and then farther to the left to other objects. You can move from the document window to the next object to the left which is the application menu, then move down into it and move to the right by object to see all the menu objects. Each menu is a different object.
You can have the student open a doccument in Notepad and demonstrate how the entire document is one object and you can use NVDA object review keys to move through the document by line, by word, and by carachter. Showing in this way the vastly different sizes of objects and how to move through an object as well as to different objects is the kind of concrete experience I have in mind that will allow the student to develop a conception of how to work with objects and on a concrete level, what they are.

I'm not particularly concerned with what programs are used, as long as they are good for teaching and demonstration. I used Notepad because that is a good program, and a very commonly used program so everyone will have it and can practice with it.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene via groups.io
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2020 10:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Seeking recommendations for app to practice object nav

I don't know how the training material available for purchase teaches object
navigation. I strongly believe that for most people, while a little
explanation is helpful, beyond talking about something being inside of
something else, and giving examples of an object, that it may be as large as
an entire document or as small as a button or check box or other control,
beyond that the best way to teach it is with very concrete examples and
concrete steps.

For example, open notepad, and then give precise directions for movement so
the student can see how he is moving. For example, you are now in the
document wwindow. If you move to the object to the left, you will be at
whatever. If you move to the object to the right, you will be at whatever,
If you move up to the higher object, you will be wherever. If you try to
move down into another object while in the document window, you can't,
because there isn't one. You move to an object, then down into it if you
want to work with it. You can use analogies, finding a shoe, then putting
it on, for example. Each object can be moved through if the object contains
more than one thing, and each object can be moved in and out of either up,
down, to the left, and to the right. In order to move out of an object,
there must be another object to move into and it can be very easily
demonstrated that NVDA will tell you if there is no object in the direction
you are moving.

I learned object navigation mostly by moving around as I described and
seeing where I was. I looked at just a little explanation and found
anything more than that to be meaningless and confusing, actually, it might
have been discouraging if I hadn't had enough experience to know that I
could learn as I described and thus applied that method. Somepeople can
learn that way mostly on their own, a lot of people can't but I believe
that, if directed, they could learn well that way in this context.

This is something where the actual experience is important and where
abstract description serves few people well other than as a general
framework such as I described above. As far as particular programs and apps
are concerned, I haven't used enough to give a lot of exazmples, but any
simple program like Notepad furnishes an excellent introduction if taught
well.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Deborah Armstrong
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2020 9:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Seeking recommendations for app to practice object nav

I had so much fun preparing two "thunderclaps" for Nvda-Con, I decided I
want to do a tutorial on object nav that approaches it differently than
previous efforts. Hopefully it can be something for next year's con.

Anyway, I mostly use object nav with in-house software for my job, so I need
to find something free that makes good practice material. Something that
really lets you exercise all the ins and outs of navigating objects.

Does anyone have a recommendation for software or a Windows 10 app that is
completely accessible if you use object nav and mouse clicking to work with
its features?

--Debee


Re: Seeking recommendations for app to practice object nav

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías
 

Hi all.

Other example is the app calculator, in the history.

Regards.

 

 

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías.

Soporte a usuarios, comunidad hispanohablante de NVDA.

Web www.nvda.es

Experto certificado en NVDA


Re: Seeking recommendations for app to practice object nav

Gene
 

I don't know how the training material available for purchase teaches object navigation. I strongly believe that for most people, while a little explanation is helpful, beyond talking about something being inside of something else, and giving examples of an object, that it may be as large as an entire document or as small as a button or check box or other control, beyond that the best way to teach it is with very concrete examples and concrete steps.

For example, open notepad, and then give precise directions for movement so the student can see how he is moving. For example, you are now in the document wwindow. If you move to the object to the left, you will be at whatever. If you move to the object to the right, you will be at whatever, If you move up to the higher object, you will be wherever. If you try to move down into another object while in the document window, you can't, because there isn't one. You move to an object, then down into it if you want to work with it. You can use analogies, finding a shoe, then putting it on, for example. Each object can be moved through if the object contains more than one thing, and each object can be moved in and out of either up, down, to the left, and to the right. In order to move out of an object, there must be another object to move into and it can be very easily demonstrated that NVDA will tell you if there is no object in the direction you are moving.

I learned object navigation mostly by moving around as I described and seeing where I was. I looked at just a little explanation and found anything more than that to be meaningless and confusing, actually, it might have been discouraging if I hadn't had enough experience to know that I could learn as I described and thus applied that method. Somepeople can learn that way mostly on their own, a lot of people can't but I believe that, if directed, they could learn well that way in this context.

This is something where the actual experience is important and where abstract description serves few people well other than as a general framework such as I described above. As far as particular programs and apps are concerned, I haven't used enough to give a lot of exazmples, but any simple program like Notepad furnishes an excellent introduction if taught well.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Deborah Armstrong
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2020 9:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Seeking recommendations for app to practice object nav

I had so much fun preparing two "thunderclaps" for Nvda-Con, I decided I want to do a tutorial on object nav that approaches it differently than previous efforts. Hopefully it can be something for next year's con.

Anyway, I mostly use object nav with in-house software for my job, so I need to find something free that makes good practice material. Something that really lets you exercise all the ins and outs of navigating objects.

Does anyone have a recommendation for software or a Windows 10 app that is completely accessible if you use object nav and mouse clicking to work with its features?

--Debee


Re: Seeking recommendations for app to practice object nav

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi.

You could try the windows 10 settings app . . . Particularly in the update and security. , or the wifi setting.

Hope this helps.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Deborah Armstrong
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2020 10:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Seeking recommendations for app to practice object nav

 

I had so much fun preparing two "thunderclaps" for Nvda-Con, I decided I want to do a tutorial on object nav that approaches it differently than previous efforts. Hopefully it can be something for next year's con.

Anyway, I mostly use object nav with in-house software for my job, so I need to find something free that makes good practice material. Something that really lets you exercise all the ins and outs of navigating objects.

Does anyone have a recommendation for software or a Windows 10 app that is completely accessible if you use object nav and mouse clicking to work with its features?

--Debee


Seeking recommendations for app to practice object nav

Deborah Armstrong <debee@...>
 

I had so much fun preparing two "thunderclaps" for Nvda-Con, I decided I want to do a tutorial on object nav that approaches it differently than previous efforts. Hopefully it can be something for next year's con.

Anyway, I mostly use object nav with in-house software for my job, so I need to find something free that makes good practice material. Something that really lets you exercise all the ins and outs of navigating objects.

Does anyone have a recommendation for software or a Windows 10 app that is completely accessible if you use object nav and mouse clicking to work with its features?

--Debee


shortcut to list data filled cells in EXCEL

Aschalew Byness
 

Hi friends
I badly need a nvda keystrokes to see data filled cells in EXCEL. in
other words, I need an NVDA version of control+shift+d in jaws.


Re: Welcoming you to my talk at NVDACon

Deborah Armstrong <debee@...>
 

I made a small mistake in my description of my presentation. I said I would talk about "Quick Dictionary". That add-on is still only on github, not released to the entire community. Therefore I will talk about Instant translate. People interested in Quick Dictionary can search groups.io to find more information and its link. 


Re: nvda and amazon music

 

no, i don't use the desktop app, i use the website with google chrome. i can search for songs, play them, and add them to my music. But as I said, as soon as I want to access my music in the library, I need visual help. i received an invitation to amazon music family, i was pleased about the attention and thought i would try nvda. nice to know that i'm not the only one having trouble with it.

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