Date   

Re: NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

JM Casey
 

That’s odd, I have never seen that prompt from narrator. Note that I never would normally have two screen-readers running at the same time, but there are times when JFW or NVDA will appear to lock up and starting Narrator will at least result in a bit of access. Maybe enough o go into task maanger or issue a  “taskkill” to get rid of the stuck screen-reader process.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of g melconian
Sent: December 9, 2020 07:30 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

 

That’s  true.that’s  one good thing about narrator and if something is sluggish with nvda or jaws an if you fire up narrator, narrator will detect an tell you that a second screenreader is running and to  turn it off in order to  make use of narrator.i think that  other screen readers should learn from this concept and add this useful  feature into their screen readers as well. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 4:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

 

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 06:54 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

The problem is that if you inadvertantly or maybe even deliberately fire up System Access and NVDA at the same time, the whole system slows down to a point where it becomes almost unusable.

-
I'd guess that this would be the result if any two third-party screen readers are fired up at the same time.

Narrator, as a built-in component of Windows 10 (and 8.1), is likely sui generis in terms of the resources allocated to it that isolate it from another screen reader.

Just like I tell my clients you should never, ever, ever run two antivirus programs/security suites at the same time on the same machine, I say the same with regard to screen readers.  Unload one before you load another.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Re: NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@...>
 

Let me respond to everyone in one message, since there were several messages on this topic. I generally do not run to screen readers at once, simply because of the fact that it would get very annoying at times. However, I occasionally run into a situation where I suspect one screen reader is not reading some thing correctly, so I will switch over to the other to see if it reads things differently.System Access shuts down NVDA when it is loaded, and that is fine. The problem described only happens about once a week, and from what I understand it’s a problem having to do with running it on 10 Let me respond to everyone in one message, since there were several messages on this topic. I generally do not run to screen readers at once, simply because of the fact that it would get very annoying at times. However, I occasionally run into a situation where I suspect one screen reader is not reading some thing correctly, so I will switch over to the other to see if it reads things differently.

On Dec 9, 2020, at 5:55 PM, Fresh Start <dan@jvillefreshstart.org> wrote:

II use NVDA, System Access and JAWS but never run them at the same time.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2020 6:46 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

But if you unload a screen-reader, the process should not be running. If this is consistent behavior and it happens on other machines, it is an error in how System Access is designed. If it was going to be around longer, they might correct it but I think it is being withdrawn at the end of the year.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2020 6:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 07:29 PM, Gene wrote:
System Access was unloaded but continues to run.- Which, just for clarity on my side, means it wasn't unloaded. I use the term "unloaded," or "exited," to mean the program is not active/running in either the foreground or background.

I also agree that it is unlikely that any screen reader is going to go to any effort to fix performance degradation that only occurs if or when you have another screen reader running with it concurrently. It's entirely reasonable to expect that, at any given moment, a screen reader, not multiple screen readers, will be running.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to
something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you
have a legal mind.

~ Thomas Reed Powell
















Re: How do I copy tables from a webpage while preserving their formatting

Pranav Lal
 

Hi Brian,

 

I hear you. This however is a work laptop so getting something installed is a challenge but if it is the  only way to go, I will take it.

 

Pranav


Re: Listing links in Word

 

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 09:03 PM, Fresh Start wrote:
I agree with the other people who told you about the link list only working in a browser.
-
But no one has asserted that.  In fact, the opposite has been asserted, and the solution used.

When you're using a word processor the vast majority of the time you'd be editing a document, and NVDA defaults to focus mode, which makes that easier.

If, however, you want to review elements in a document that are the same as elements that exist in a web page (and there are others, that don't, too), you can switch to browse mode and use INS+F7 to invoke the Elements List dialog in Word.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Re: Listing links in Word

Fresh Start <dan@...>
 

I agree with the other people who told you about the link list only working
in a browser.
However, you can make a link be clickable from the internet that you have
placed into a document.
First whenyou are in the browser like internet explorer, press alt plus the
letter D.
Then Press control plus the letter C for copy to clipboard.
Next alt tab back to your document and press control plus the letter V to
past the link into the document where you wish.
Next, place your cursor at the beginning of the url and highlight that line
by pressing shift plus the end key.
Then press control plus k.
Next tab to ok and press enter.
If you only hear cancel when tabing once you didn't get the complet
highlighted or you didn't actualy copy over the url.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ann Byrne
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2020 9:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Listing links in Word

When I press insert+f7 in Word, instead of a list of links I am placed in
spell check. Does insert+f7 not list links in programs other than internet
browsers? Am I missing a trick?

Thanks


Re: NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

Fresh Start <dan@...>
 

II use NVDA, System Access and JAWS but never run them at the same time.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2020 6:46 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

But if you unload a screen-reader, the process should not be running. If this is consistent behavior and it happens on other machines, it is an error in how System Access is designed. If it was going to be around longer, they might correct it but I think it is being withdrawn at the end of the year.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2020 6:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 07:29 PM, Gene wrote:
System Access was unloaded but continues to run.- Which, just for clarity on my side, means it wasn't unloaded. I use the term "unloaded," or "exited," to mean the program is not active/running in either the foreground or background.

I also agree that it is unlikely that any screen reader is going to go to any effort to fix performance degradation that only occurs if or when you have another screen reader running with it concurrently. It's entirely reasonable to expect that, at any given moment, a screen reader, not multiple screen readers, will be running.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to
something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you
have a legal mind.

~ Thomas Reed Powell


Re: NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

Blaster
 

I switch between SA and NVDA with no issues. I'm sure a reboot solved
any conflicts with no permanent problems.

HTH,
Blaster

On 12/9/20, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
While I don't particularly have an opinion about general behavior when
you run a screen-reader while another is running, here is a case where a
screen-reader should shut down another one. If you are installing a new
screen-reader, even if it has a talking installer, you would want your
current screen-reader running when you run the installer. If it isn't
running, you would be unaware of any error messages or anything you need
to respond to such as Windows can't verify the installer and being asked
if you want to run it. Then the currently running screen-reader should
be shut down by the installer.


If you want to install a version of NVDA by running the installer and a
different version of NVDA is already running, my recollection is that
the installer shuts down the currently running version before the
talking installer is active.


Gene

On 12/9/2020 6:39 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 07:30 PM, g melconian wrote:

add this useful feature [if another screen reader is running,
force it to exit before moving further into starting] into their
screen readers as well.

-
Though I don't disagree, per se, there are trade offs and dangers to
this approach. I personally think that folks should be trained or
train themselves to shut down one screen reader before starting
another. There are things I want the user of specific types of
software to have to do themselves, mostly because it promotes
awareness on a number of levels.

I guess it's a matter of preference, really. But I've observed over
the decades that making lots of things occur "automagically" tends to
result in complete obliviousness as to how things work or what one
might do when something inevitably goes wrong and requires end user
intervention. Knowing where the sweet spot lies between entirely
manual in all respects (yuk) or fully automatic is not a simple thing,
and opinions of where that spot is will differ.

--

Brian -Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

*/If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached
to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to,
then you have a legal mind./*

~ Thomas Reed Powell






Re: NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

 

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 07:57 PM, Gene wrote:
If you want to install a version of NVDA by running the installer and a different version of NVDA is already running, my recollection is that the installer shuts down the currently running version before the talking installer is active.
-
Very common behavior for programs that allow what I call "install over installs," and these days that's most of them.

I don't want any program shutting down a running instance of something that's not an earlier version of itself, ever.  An arrangement where something bows out when it detects something it would conflict with, sure, e.g. Windows Security will shut itself down when another Security Suite signals it's being installed, but that's it.  I wouldn't want one to be able to kill the other.  That way lies a lot of potential madness, and is a security nightmare.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Re: NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

Gene
 

While I don't particularly have an opinion about general behavior when you run a screen-reader while another is running, here is a case where a screen-reader should shut down another one.  If you are installing a new screen-reader, even if it has a talking installer, you would want your current screen-reader running when you run the installer.  If it isn't running, you would be unaware of any error messages or anything you need to respond to such as  Windows can't verify the installer and being asked if you want to run it.  Then the currently running screen-reader should be shut down by the installer. 


If you want to install a version of NVDA by running the installer and a different version of NVDA is already running, my recollection is that the installer shuts down the currently running version before the talking installer is active.


Gene

On 12/9/2020 6:39 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 07:30 PM, g melconian wrote:
add this useful  feature [if another screen reader is running, force it to exit before moving further into starting] into their screen readers as well. 
-
Though I don't disagree, per se, there are trade offs and dangers to this approach.  I personally think that folks should be trained or train themselves to shut down one screen reader before starting another.  There are things I want the user of specific types of software to have to do themselves, mostly because it promotes awareness on a number of levels.

I guess it's a matter of preference, really.  But I've observed over the decades that making lots of things occur "automagically" tends to result in complete obliviousness as to how things work or what one might do when something inevitably goes wrong and requires end user intervention.  Knowing where the sweet spot lies between entirely manual in all respects (yuk) or fully automatic is not a simple thing, and opinions of where that spot is will differ.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Re: NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

 

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 07:46 PM, Gene wrote:
But if you unload a screen-reader, the process should not be running.
-
Agreed.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Re: NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

Gene
 

But if you unload a screen-reader, the process should not be running. If this is consistent behavior and it happens on other machines, it is an error in how System Access is designed. If it was going to be around longer, they might correct it but I think it is being withdrawn at the end of the year.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2020 6:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 07:29 PM, Gene wrote:
System Access was unloaded but continues to run.-
Which, just for clarity on my side, means it wasn't unloaded. I use the term "unloaded," or "exited," to mean the program is not active/running in either the foreground or background.

I also agree that it is unlikely that any screen reader is going to go to any effort to fix performance degradation that only occurs if or when you have another screen reader running with it concurrently. It's entirely reasonable to expect that, at any given moment, a screen reader, not multiple screen readers, will be running.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

~ Thomas Reed Powell


Re: NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

g melconian <gmelconian619@...>
 

Do agree with you bryan. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 4:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

 

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 07:30 PM, g melconian wrote:

add this useful  feature [if another screen reader is running, force it to exit before moving further into starting] into their screen readers as well. 

-
Though I don't disagree, per se, there are trade offs and dangers to this approach.  I personally think that folks should be trained or train themselves to shut down one screen reader before starting another.  There are things I want the user of specific types of software to have to do themselves, mostly because it promotes awareness on a number of levels.

I guess it's a matter of preference, really.  But I've observed over the decades that making lots of things occur "automagically" tends to result in complete obliviousness as to how things work or what one might do when something inevitably goes wrong and requires end user intervention.  Knowing where the sweet spot lies between entirely manual in all respects (yuk) or fully automatic is not a simple thing, and opinions of where that spot is will differ.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Re: NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

 

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 07:30 PM, g melconian wrote:
add this useful  feature [if another screen reader is running, force it to exit before moving further into starting] into their screen readers as well. 
-
Though I don't disagree, per se, there are trade offs and dangers to this approach.  I personally think that folks should be trained or train themselves to shut down one screen reader before starting another.  There are things I want the user of specific types of software to have to do themselves, mostly because it promotes awareness on a number of levels.

I guess it's a matter of preference, really.  But I've observed over the decades that making lots of things occur "automagically" tends to result in complete obliviousness as to how things work or what one might do when something inevitably goes wrong and requires end user intervention.  Knowing where the sweet spot lies between entirely manual in all respects (yuk) or fully automatic is not a simple thing, and opinions of where that spot is will differ.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Re: NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

 

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 07:29 PM, Gene wrote:
System Access was unloaded but continues to run.
-
Which, just for clarity on my side, means it wasn't unloaded.  I use the term "unloaded," or "exited," to mean the program is not active/running in either the foreground or background.

I also agree that it is unlikely that any screen reader is going to go to any effort to fix performance degradation that only occurs if or when you have another screen reader running with it concurrently.  It's entirely reasonable to expect that, at any given moment, a screen reader, not multiple screen readers, will be running.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Re: NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

g melconian <gmelconian619@...>
 

That’s  true.that’s  one good thing about narrator and if something is sluggish with nvda or jaws an if you fire up narrator, narrator will detect an tell you that a second screenreader is running and to  turn it off in order to  make use of narrator.i think that  other screen readers should learn from this concept and add this useful  feature into their screen readers as well. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 4:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

 

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 06:54 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

The problem is that if you inadvertantly or maybe even deliberately fire up System Access and NVDA at the same time, the whole system slows down to a point where it becomes almost unusable.

-
I'd guess that this would be the result if any two third-party screen readers are fired up at the same time.

Narrator, as a built-in component of Windows 10 (and 8.1), is likely sui generis in terms of the resources allocated to it that isolate it from another screen reader.

Just like I tell my clients you should never, ever, ever run two antivirus programs/security suites at the same time on the same machine, I say the same with regard to screen readers.  Unload one before you load another.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Re: NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

Gene
 

Farther down in the message, it is stated that Bob did unload System Access but it was still running in the background. Also, running two screen-readers simultaneously, which may be done accidentally, doesn't usually slow system performance. You have the inconvenience of two screen-readers speaking simultaneously, but not the kind of slowdown described.

The original post is unclear because first itt talks about running both at the same time while describing an incident when System Access was unloaded but continues to run. But System Accessw is going to be discontinued soon so I don't know if there would be any interest in fixing this as an update. The problem is mainly System Access, since it may continue to run in the background when it should be completely stopped when the user stops it. I think this is a problem that should be reported to them.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2020 6:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 06:54 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
The problem is that if you inadvertantly or maybe even deliberately fire up System Access and NVDA at the same time, the whole system slows down to a point where it becomes almost unusable.-
I'd guess that this would be the result if any two third-party screen readers are fired up at the same time.

Narrator, as a built-in component of Windows 10 (and 8.1), is likely sui generis in terms of the resources allocated to it that isolate it from another screen reader.

Just like I tell my clients you should never, ever, ever run two antivirus programs/security suites at the same time on the same machine, I say the same with regard to screen readers. Unload one before you load another.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

~ Thomas Reed Powell


Re: NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

 

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 06:54 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
The problem is that if you inadvertantly or maybe even deliberately fire up System Access and NVDA at the same time, the whole system slows down to a point where it becomes almost unusable.
-
I'd guess that this would be the result if any two third-party screen readers are fired up at the same time.

Narrator, as a built-in component of Windows 10 (and 8.1), is likely sui generis in terms of the resources allocated to it that isolate it from another screen reader.

Just like I tell my clients you should never, ever, ever run two antivirus programs/security suites at the same time on the same machine, I say the same with regard to screen readers.  Unload one before you load another.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


locked Re: NVDA Con Apology to the Community from your List Owner #adminnotice

 
Edited

Hello All,

In the time since this administrative notice was sent out there have been a number of responses. A brief summary of those responses follows.  I am unlocking this topic only to post this summary, and locking it again after having done so.

First, and unsurprisingly, all who sent responses support Nimer Jaber’s continuing on as Group Owner of the NVDA Group.

Second, there was unanimous support for replacing Team Talk as the virtual meeting mechanism for the NVDACon, which was a surprise.  Here are some brief quotations from the comments on the preferred virtual meeting mechanism:

I did not join NVDACon because of the fiddliness of setting up Teams and how inconsistent the experience sounded even when everything was done right. I also wasn't able to get the streaming link to work but that was likely in part to logging on at the wrong times—perhaps . . . I, for one, would have thoroughly enjoyed NVDACon on Zoom . . . I . . . hope that this may prompt a broader discussion . . .

I wasn't even aware of this event before a couple weeks ago. That was only one of the reasons I didn't attend, but the fact that it used Team Talk rather than Zoom was another one. Especially since everyone has Zoom now given everything that's happened this year, it would seem like a no-brainer to have the con on Zoom.

I also think that zoom would be a better option for NVDA con for next year.

I attended the conference and found it easier to join using the simulcast link provided by a member in the NVDA list rather than deal with team talk.

As an aside, but I believe it to be an important one, someone said, “As this is the first time I have been on the NVDA list at this time of the year, I wasn't even aware of this event before a couple weeks ago.”  Given the number of NVDA users worldwide, and the attendance numbers for the NVDACon, the need for serious consideration about how to promote the NVDACon more widely and aggressively is indicated.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Re: NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of participants panel in Zoom

Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@...>
 

If the class is a webinar, you cannot see participants. I suspect
that's the situation here.

On 12/9/20, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know how your class is set up. In the zoom meetings I have
participated in, members can see the list of participants.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2020 5:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom



Nope. I'm saying I probably cannot test this tomorrow as I'm not teaching
the class, just taking taking it, and I don't think you can view the people

in the class unless you are host. I'm glad there is a work around though inc

in my zoom class I want to teach one day gets over 7 people..

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to
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Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 9 Dec 2020, at 15:22, Gene wrote:



Are you saying you don't think you can use read current line in the class
for some reason?

Gene

-----Original Message----- From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2020 5:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom



I'll have to try this the next time I'm in my class of about 125 people. Or

not. I'm taking not teaching the class, so I don't think I'll be able to
test the work around. Let me know before tomorrow, please.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to
give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page
and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and
eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 9 Dec 2020, at 15:13, Gene wrote:



I believe it was reported that my suggestion of using reade current line to

read the names works around the problem. That would be much more efficient
than trying to make the parts of the list read unlessor until the problem is

solved. If you use NVDA and don't know how to read the current line
conveniently when moving in a case like this, ask here. It can be done so
conveniently that you won't mind the problem to any extent.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Milam
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2020 3:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom

Unfortunately it doesn't help. I am having the exact same issue.

Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
hurrikennyandopo ...
Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 4:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom

Hi


The link to the add on is found at
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/zoomEnhancements.en.html
<https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/zoomEnhancements.en.html>

I am guessing if they have done a add on for it hopefully some of those
problems will go away.


Gene nz


On 10/12/2020 7:30 am, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:



No, I do not have the Zoom add-on. I could install that and try again
before my next meeting.

On 12/8/20, hurrikennyandopo ... <hurrikennyandopo@hotmail.com> wrote:



Hi


Is that with the zoom add on you still get that result or is it without
it?


Gene nz


On 9/12/2020 4:26 pm, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:



I am in a Zoom meeting right now, and can confirm that NVDA does not
speak when arrowing down after six participants. Interestingly, if you
go to the bottom of the list and use your up arrow, the same thing
happens. I waited several seconds before pressing the arrow key again,
and NVDA never spoke.

On 12/2/20, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:



When testing a problem like this, it may be helpful to test for such
things.

Assuming that something is or isn't happening may lead to an incorrect
description of a problem.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2020 11:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom

Nor have I done much testing with this, as I'm usually trying to focus
on the meeting I'm attending, but I do not expect my screen reader, no
matter what it is, to suddenly be delayed by several seconds after
arrowing down a half a dozen times with no problem whatsoever. I may
have a meeting on Saturday, so I will play around with this if that
meeting happens.

On 12/2/20, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:



How long do you wait before deciding that nothing will be read? The
meetings I attend generally don't have a lot of attendees. Generally
something like eight or ten. If I down arrow a lot of times, speech
is
delayed, I didn't play with this much because I wanted to hear what
was
going on in the meeting, but it seemed to me that in perhaps ten
seconds,

I

would hear something.

It might help those analyzing the problem if they knew if speech stops
or

is

very delayed. I didn't do enough testing to know on my machine. I
may
when

I attend another meeting.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Sim Kah Yong
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2020 8:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom

Hi

I tried the read current line or the read the current line of the
navigation object and NVDA reads to me when I encounter the problem.
This is just a work-around, how nice if a solution can be found for
this. Thanks.

On 11/30/2020 11:07 AM, Gene wrote:



What happens if you down arrow and when speech stops, read the
current
line. You can also try reading the current line of the navigator
object,
in the desktop layout, numpad 8. I don't know the laptop layout.
You
may

not hear anything but if this combination allows you to hear the
names
as

you move, that may be a work around that is reasonable for now.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Sky Mundell
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 8:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom

Hello Bob. Just curious, does SA have that problem? System Access I
mean?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Bob
Cavanaugh
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 6:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom

I have this issue too. What I've found to work is to hit your up
arrow
when you get to the point where it goes silent, then your down arrow
again. That helps for a brief time, then you have to repeat that
process
again. I agree, kind of annoying. I'm also having two additional
issues
with NVDA not reading things properly in Zoom:
1. When typing anything in Zoom and you type something wrong, NVDA
does
not read what you backspace. It reads if you type things normally,
but
if

you try to review or correct an error, it will not read.
2. If you're in a meeting that initially isn't being recorded, then
the
host starts recording, NVDA does not read the alert that tells you
that
the meeting is now being recorded.

On 11/29/20, Sim Kah Yong <simkahyong@gmail.com> wrote:



Hi all,

Wish to report the above problem when using NVDA in Zoom. IN a zoom
meeting, if I wish to find out the list of participants, I will
press
alt + U to call out the participants panel. I will then arrow down
the
list. After severl down arrow, NVDA will stop speaking.

I am using the latest version of NVDA, Zoom enhancement app and
Zoom.
This problem has been there even with the older version of NVDA and
Zoom. I am using Windows 8.1. I have tried the following with no
avail:

1. Wit no apps

2. restart NVDA

3. Re-boot my computer.

Just wish to find out if any of you have similar problem and what
can
be done? Perhaps this can help to improve future version of NVDA.

I have also use JAWS and this has not been a problem. Thanks all.






























NVDA snd System Access, not a good combination

Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@...>
 

Hi all,
This might not be worth it anymore depending on the future of System
Access, but if System Access stays around, I think this should be
fixed if at all possible. The problem is that if you inadvertantly or
maybe even deliberately fire up System Access and NVDA at the same
time, the whole system slows down to a point where it becomes almost
unusable. Alt-tab doesn't work as expected, and applications that
should run smoothly suddenly stop responding. The other thing that
almost always happens is modifiers in NVDA quit working, making it
quite hard to shut down NVDA once it is running. In my case, I still
use System Access to go, and it happens to me most frequently when
I've just shut down SA. This morning was a perfect example. I had
System Access open in IE, and a stream open in Firefox. As I wanted to
make a call on my Google Voice number, the plan was to close IE,
shutting down SA, then fire up NVDA, and switch to Voice in the
existing Firefox window. I closed IE, and System Access shut down as
expected, or so I thought. I fired up NVDA, switched to Firefox, and
went to Google Voice, though sometimes the effect is right away, such
that I won't even be able to do that. Not long after, I noticed a
dramatic slow down in performance. The solution is to open task
manager, make sure more details are showing, and go down to background
processes. System Access will still be running as a background
process, which needs to be ended in order for performance to return to
normal.
This is just where it's most likely to happen to me, but in general,
performance should not be this degraded when trying to run two screen
readers. System Access and Narrator don't behave like this, nor do
NVDA and Narrator.
Bob

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