Date   

Re: How is verbosity decided

Gene
 

I read the discussion and it looks to me like the kind of essoteric minutia that leads to all sorts of things being spoken that don't benefit the typical user, most people and that a lot of people won't know how to turn off or that such reporting can be turned off.

For those who want this minute information, they can turn such reporting on. And those who do want it are far more likely to know where to find such settings.

This reminds me of the Ptolmaic versus the Copernican models of the universe. With the earth at the center of the universe, accounting for the orbits of stars became increasingly complicated. When the model was changed and the earth was no longer the unmoving center of the universe, great simplicity was achieved.

I see little benefit for a lot of users presenting ever-increasing detail. Teach use of the find command, move by headings, move by numbered headings and the use of the skip blocs of links commands and that is plenty to allow efficient navigation for most people. Every time something is added and on by default, more distraction and more inefficiency is added to reading. Most of the time, most people want to read information on the Internet for reading, not for writing papers or other purposes where minute detail is wanted or needed. I strongly believe those are the uses and users that should be considered when information to be spoken is considered in default settings.

If I'm reading a magazine article, I don't want to hear something like list with six items and two embeded lists when I come across information about this or that subject. I don't want to hear block quote, out of block quote when an aaarticle says, according to Mr. Johnson, and then a quote from him.

If ;people think I'm wrong, is there some way to survey typical users?

I see no value in using landmarks to find things on pages. The search command, move by heading and move by the skip blocks of links commands are plenty. Again, to an extent, how people are taught may determine what they use and how. Simplicity and efficiency in combination should, in my opinion be an emphasis of the training material. Rather than micromemorization, on this page, move by heading level 3 to get here or there most efficiently, on that page, move by heading level 2, etc. the minutia becomes absurd. I've seen people describe this means of navigation when discussing how to find something on a page on lists. I'm not saying the training material teaches it but I doubt it thoroughly teaches and emphasizes what I am describing either and I think it should. For example, on this [page search for opi n to get to the opinion link. On this site search for edito to get to the editorial section. Search for cont on most sites to find the contact link. On a radio station, search for listen to get to a listen live or equivalent link.

I have never seen these means of navigation taught to any extent and emphasized. I haven't see the NVDA training material but if it doesn't make a strong point of teaching this as a means of navigation, I strongly believe it should.

On what sort of page and in what context is announcement of figure helpful? I see it on The New York Times page but I see no useful pattern. Its there on this or that link and not there on a lot of links. Moving by whatever structure allows me to move in that way wouldn't benefit me in any meaningful way, if at all. I want to see what The Times has as its stories on the home page. Using h to move by heading is the most efficient way. Hearing figure and out of figure when I'm reading an article or figure when I move by heading from story to story headline is nothing but clutter. Some essoteric use may be made of this ihnformation but why is it on by default?

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 9:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How is verbosity decided


Hi Zahra,

2020.3 you mean? Yes, looks like this was the issue involved: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/9485

The overall point in the what's new file is:

In Internet Explorer, Google Chrome and Mozilla Firefox, You can now navigate by article and grouping using quick navigation scripts. These scripts are unbound by default and can be assigned in the Input Gestures dialog when the dialog is opened from a browse mode document. (#9485, #9227)
- Figures are also reported. They are considered objects and therefore navigable with the o quick navigation key.


On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 2:35 PM zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
quentin,
is nvda 2019.3 is the first version that nvda announces figure?
and may i ask in which github this feature was added to nvda?

On 12/17/20, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
Firstly,

Yes you are correct, figures are reported but there is currently no
document formatting option to toggle that. There is, however, an issue for
that already - so do feel free to subscribe to that for updates on when it
is updated: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10826

The idea of including configuration profiles in NVDA itself is of course
possible, but what would be included? (rhetorical question!)

If we did that, then suddenly some programs would behave differently to
others - or you'd really want to change a setting, and yet it wouldn't be
changed in every program, and why does NVDA read this really useful
information in Word but not Firefox? It would cause more problems than it
would solve, especially as how one user uses Word for instance, might be
very different to how another user does.

So the best solution, we feel, is to not have any configuration profiles
setup by default, but to hopefully teach users how to access them. I have
put forward my idea for improving configuration profiles here:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10322 - as with any other issue,
feel free to subscribe to that, or to add your own 2 cents to it if you
have a point to add which hasn't been made already on the issue.

The scripts term is a bit confusing. Most of the time when people use it,
they mean either Jaws scripts or NVDA add-ons. In fact, the term has crept
into our "What's new" document (in quite a few places as I look at it now)
to mean a software function in NVDA itself. For instance in 2020.3 one
change was:

"The Report formatting script (NVDA+f) has now been changed to report the
formatting at the system caret rather than at the review cursor position.
To report formatting at the review cursor position now use NVDA+shift+f.
(#9505)"

Which refers to NVDA's own internal routine which runs when a user presses
NVDA+f. So Gene's comment about NVDA using "scripts for various programs",
is (I think I'm reading his intentions correctly) in line with that usage
of the word, and I'm happy to put my hand up and say we can take the blame
for that particular confusion :)

Also the difference between bug report and feature request is more around
the prompts in the template itself - the issue still ends up in the same
place (as an issue), and several people have commented that we should
actually add a few more of the prompt questions from the bug report
template to the feature request template. In essence, whatever you are
reporting or requesting, try to include as much information as possible
which might be relevant, even if it isn't explicitly asked.

Quentin.



On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 9:56 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 05:13 PM, Gene wrote:

newly added announcement of figure and out of figure. I have found no
setting to control this announcement.

-
I'll agree that:

1. This could be mighty annoying.
2. It's something that should be toggle-able like most other document
formatting announcements are.

My guess is that focus was on getting the function to work, but that
adding another checkbox to Document Formatting options slipped through
the
cracks. I don't know whether such a request would be considered a bug
report versus feature request. I'd be more inclined toward bug report,
as
there is a well established collection of settings that would seem to
have
been the ideal place to add a checkbox for this, but it didn't happen.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas
to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:] *Pleased with the SCOTUS
ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train
goes next. We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.*

~ Brendan Buck, *former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul
Ryan and John Boehner*




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>






--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali









--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: NVDA 2020.4 Beta 1 now available

 

Hi,

Supersonic jet is on its way – expect something from me within the next 30 minutes (i.e. I’m going to submit a pull request that will make your dream into a reality before I sleep tonight, although I don’t know if I might sleep given I drank too much coffee this morning in preparation for a final exam…).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christo de Klerk
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 11:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2020.4 Beta 1 now available

 

Hi Quentin

 

Some months ago I raised the matter of the LibLouis Afrikaans grade 2 table not being included in NVDA. The response was that LibLouis developers should notify NVDA developers that the table is available for inclusion. I then raised it on the LibLouis list and as the developer of the table assured everybody that the table was fine for both forward and back translation and should be included in other products which it currently is, except for NVDA. Joseph took part in that discussion. The LibLouis developers seemed unaware that they officially had to let NVDA developers know about the table.

 

I honestly don't know what to do any more to get the table included. We need it here in our country and it has been included with every version of LibLouis since September last year. Please can you assist.

 

Kind regards

 

Christo

 

 

On 2020/12/17 12:13 am, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

Lazily copying my tweet - so you get everything in one sentence: NVDA 2020.4Beta1 is now available for testing, including  new Chinese Input methods, an update to Liblouis, the elements list now works in focus mode, context sensitive help pressing F1 in NVDA dialogs & heaps more!

 

 

As usual, please do report any issues on GitHub.

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

 


Re: NVDA 2020.4 Beta 1 now available

Christo de Klerk
 

Hi Quentin

Some months ago I raised the matter of the LibLouis Afrikaans grade 2 table not being included in NVDA. The response was that LibLouis developers should notify NVDA developers that the table is available for inclusion. I then raised it on the LibLouis list and as the developer of the table assured everybody that the table was fine for both forward and back translation and should be included in other products which it currently is, except for NVDA. Joseph took part in that discussion. The LibLouis developers seemed unaware that they officially had to let NVDA developers know about the table.

I honestly don't know what to do any more to get the table included. We need it here in our country and it has been included with every version of LibLouis since September last year. Please can you assist.

Kind regards

Christo


On 2020/12/17 12:13 am, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi everyone,

Lazily copying my tweet - so you get everything in one sentence: NVDA 2020.4Beta1 is now available for testing, including  new Chinese Input methods, an update to Liblouis, the elements list now works in focus mode, context sensitive help pressing F1 in NVDA dialogs & heaps more!


As usual, please do report any issues on GitHub.

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Re: How is verbosity decided

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Zahra,

2020.3 you mean?  Yes, looks like this was the issue involved: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/9485

The overall point in the what's new file is:

In Internet Explorer, Google Chrome and Mozilla Firefox, You can now navigate by article and grouping using quick navigation scripts. These scripts are unbound by default and can be assigned in the Input Gestures dialog when the dialog is opened from a browse mode document. (#9485, #9227)
- Figures are also reported. They are considered objects and therefore navigable with the o quick navigation key.


On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 2:35 PM zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
quentin,
is nvda 2019.3 is the first version that nvda announces figure?
and may i ask in which github this feature was added to nvda?

On 12/17/20, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
> Firstly,
>
> Yes you are correct, figures are reported but there is currently no
> document formatting option to toggle that.  There is, however, an issue for
> that already - so do feel free to subscribe to that for updates on when it
> is updated: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10826
>
> The idea of including configuration profiles in NVDA itself is of course
> possible, but what would be included? (rhetorical question!)
>
> If we did that, then suddenly some programs would behave differently to
> others - or you'd really want to change a setting, and yet it wouldn't be
> changed in every program, and why does NVDA read this really useful
> information in Word but not Firefox?  It would cause more problems than it
> would solve, especially as how one user uses Word for instance, might be
> very different to how another user does.
>
> So the best solution, we feel, is to not have any configuration profiles
> setup by default, but to hopefully teach users how to access them.  I have
> put forward my idea for improving configuration profiles here:
> https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10322 - as with any other issue,
> feel free to subscribe to that, or to add your own 2 cents to it if you
> have a point to add which hasn't been made already on the issue.
>
> The scripts term is a bit confusing.  Most of the time when people use it,
> they mean either Jaws scripts or NVDA add-ons.  In fact, the term has crept
> into our "What's new" document (in quite a few places as I look at it now)
> to mean a software function in NVDA itself.  For instance in 2020.3 one
> change was:
>
> "The Report formatting script (NVDA+f) has now been changed to report the
> formatting at the system caret rather than at the review cursor position.
> To report formatting at the review cursor position now use NVDA+shift+f.
> (#9505)"
>
> Which refers to NVDA's own internal routine which runs when a user presses
> NVDA+f.  So Gene's comment about NVDA using "scripts for various programs",
> is (I think I'm reading his intentions correctly) in line with that usage
> of the word, and I'm happy to put my hand up and say we can take the blame
> for that particular confusion :)
>
> Also the difference between bug report and feature request is more around
> the prompts in the template itself - the issue still ends up in the same
> place (as an issue), and several people have commented that we should
> actually add a few more of the prompt questions from the bug report
> template to the feature request template.  In essence, whatever you are
> reporting or requesting, try to include as much information as possible
> which might be relevant, even if it isn't explicitly asked.
>
> Quentin.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 9:56 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 05:13 PM, Gene wrote:
>>
>> newly added announcement of figure and out of figure. I have found no
>> setting to control this announcement.
>>
>> -
>> I'll agree that:
>>
>> 1. This could be mighty annoying.
>> 2. It's something that should be toggle-able like most other document
>> formatting announcements are.
>>
>> My guess is that focus was on getting the function to work, but that
>> adding another checkbox to Document Formatting options slipped through
>> the
>> cracks.  I don't know whether such a request would be considered a bug
>> report versus feature request.  I'd be more inclined toward bug report,
>> as
>> there is a well established collection of settings that would seem to
>> have
>> been the ideal place to add a checkbox for this, but it didn't happen.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042
>>
>> [Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas
>> to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:]  *Pleased with the SCOTUS
>> ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train
>> goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.*
>>
>>         ~ Brendan Buck, *former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul
>> Ryan and John Boehner*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> Web: www.nvaccess.org
> Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
> Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
> User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: The f1 key not bringing up sections properly in nvda 2020.4 beta 1

Quentin Christensen
 

Thanks for reporting this.  We can see the issue, but don't have a solution at this stage.  On the basis that it "often" works, and even when it doesn't, the experience is no worse than it was previously, it will likely be left as is for 2020.4.

If someone experiencing this can see anything interesting in the log and feels like writing up an issue on GitHub, feel free to tag me so I can follow it.  Although I could replicate it when I first read the message, I was in the middle of something else, and now I was going to have a look at it, I can't replicate it :)

Quentin.

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:38 PM molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:
Yep I've noticed that too.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of hurrikennyandopo ...
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 8:30 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] The f1 key not bringing up sections properly in nvda 2020.4 beta 1

Hi guys


has any one else notice in nvda 2020.4 beta 1 when you go into the settings of nvda say you pick a section then press the F1 key it is meant to bring up information on that section or the setting you are looking at.


It seems to work some times bringing up the right section and other times it brings up the user manual.


but it seems also if the user manual comes up while looking at say a
settings if it does not come up correctly press the f5 key and the
sections seem to come up correctly.


What I mean if the setting you are looking at then press the f1 key and
the user manual comes up instead of the section you are looking at press
the f5 key and the section you are looking at comes up correctly.


I tried this in a couple of different browsers with the same result with
the user manual coming up instead of the right section until you preess
the f5 key to bring it up. I will have to do more playing around with it.


I am guessing it should come up correctly on all settings you find to
find out more into on not just the ones with check boxs.


Gene nz
















--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: How is verbosity decided

 

quentin,
is nvda 2019.3 is the first version that nvda announces figure?
and may i ask in which github this feature was added to nvda?

On 12/17/20, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
Firstly,

Yes you are correct, figures are reported but there is currently no
document formatting option to toggle that. There is, however, an issue for
that already - so do feel free to subscribe to that for updates on when it
is updated: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10826

The idea of including configuration profiles in NVDA itself is of course
possible, but what would be included? (rhetorical question!)

If we did that, then suddenly some programs would behave differently to
others - or you'd really want to change a setting, and yet it wouldn't be
changed in every program, and why does NVDA read this really useful
information in Word but not Firefox? It would cause more problems than it
would solve, especially as how one user uses Word for instance, might be
very different to how another user does.

So the best solution, we feel, is to not have any configuration profiles
setup by default, but to hopefully teach users how to access them. I have
put forward my idea for improving configuration profiles here:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10322 - as with any other issue,
feel free to subscribe to that, or to add your own 2 cents to it if you
have a point to add which hasn't been made already on the issue.

The scripts term is a bit confusing. Most of the time when people use it,
they mean either Jaws scripts or NVDA add-ons. In fact, the term has crept
into our "What's new" document (in quite a few places as I look at it now)
to mean a software function in NVDA itself. For instance in 2020.3 one
change was:

"The Report formatting script (NVDA+f) has now been changed to report the
formatting at the system caret rather than at the review cursor position.
To report formatting at the review cursor position now use NVDA+shift+f.
(#9505)"

Which refers to NVDA's own internal routine which runs when a user presses
NVDA+f. So Gene's comment about NVDA using "scripts for various programs",
is (I think I'm reading his intentions correctly) in line with that usage
of the word, and I'm happy to put my hand up and say we can take the blame
for that particular confusion :)

Also the difference between bug report and feature request is more around
the prompts in the template itself - the issue still ends up in the same
place (as an issue), and several people have commented that we should
actually add a few more of the prompt questions from the bug report
template to the feature request template. In essence, whatever you are
reporting or requesting, try to include as much information as possible
which might be relevant, even if it isn't explicitly asked.

Quentin.



On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 9:56 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 05:13 PM, Gene wrote:

newly added announcement of figure and out of figure. I have found no
setting to control this announcement.

-
I'll agree that:

1. This could be mighty annoying.
2. It's something that should be toggle-able like most other document
formatting announcements are.

My guess is that focus was on getting the function to work, but that
adding another checkbox to Document Formatting options slipped through
the
cracks. I don't know whether such a request would be considered a bug
report versus feature request. I'd be more inclined toward bug report,
as
there is a well established collection of settings that would seem to
have
been the ideal place to add a checkbox for this, but it didn't happen.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas
to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:] *Pleased with the SCOTUS
ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train
goes next. We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.*

~ Brendan Buck, *former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul
Ryan and John Boehner*




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>





--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: Outlook 365: Issue with announcement of selected text while composing mail

Pranav Lal
 

Luke,

 

Does the problem go away if you restart nvda?

 

I have had this happen to me on my work laptop but it is not reproducable.

Pranav


Re: The f1 key not bringing up sections properly in nvda 2020.4 beta 1

molly the blind tech lover
 

Yep I've noticed that too.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of hurrikennyandopo ...
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 8:30 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] The f1 key not bringing up sections properly in nvda 2020.4 beta 1

Hi guys


has any one else notice in nvda 2020.4 beta 1 when you go into the settings of nvda say you pick a section then press the F1 key it is meant to bring up information on that section or the setting you are looking at.


It seems to work some times bringing up the right section and other times it brings up the user manual.


but it seems also if the user manual comes up while looking at say a
settings if it does not come up correctly press the f5 key and the
sections seem to come up correctly.


What I mean if the setting you are looking at then press the f1 key and
the user manual comes up instead of the section you are looking at press
the f5 key and the section you are looking at comes up correctly.


I tried this in a couple of different browsers with the same result with
the user manual coming up instead of the right section until you preess
the f5 key to bring it up. I will have to do more playing around with it.


I am guessing it should come up correctly on all settings you find to
find out more into on not just the ones with check boxs.


Gene nz


The f1 key not bringing up sections properly in nvda 2020.4 beta 1

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi guys


has any one else notice in nvda 2020.4 beta 1 when you go into the settings of nvda say you pick a section then press the F1 key it is meant to bring up information on that section or the setting you are looking at.


It seems to work some times bringing up the right section and other times it brings up the user manual.


but it seems also if the user manual comes up while looking at say a settings if it does not come up correctly press the f5 key and the sections seem to come up correctly.


What I mean if the setting you are looking at then press the f1 key and the user manual comes up instead of the section you are looking at press the f5 key and the section you are looking at comes up correctly.


I tried this in a couple of different browsers with the same result with the user manual coming up instead of the right section until you preess the f5 key to bring it up. I will have to do more playing around with it.


I am guessing it should come up correctly on all settings you find to find out more into on not just the ones with check boxs.


Gene nz


Re: NVDA 2020.4 Beta 1 now available

molly the blind tech lover
 

I just downloaded the beta.

Works great.

I love that new f1 help feature.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 5:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2020.4 Beta 1 now available

 

Hi everyone,

 

Lazily copying my tweet - so you get everything in one sentence: NVDA 2020.4Beta1 is now available for testing, including  new Chinese Input methods, an update to Liblouis, the elements list now works in focus mode, context sensitive help pressing F1 in NVDA dialogs & heaps more!

 

 

As usual, please do report any issues on GitHub.

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Re: Outlook 365: Issue with announcement of selected text while composing mail

Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...>
 

Thank you very much for the reply. I will get those extra details and add them to the issue comments. Much appreciated.

On Dec 16, 2020, at 2:48 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:


Hi Luke,

I just replied to the issue - basically I asked what version of Outlook 365 are you using?  Which synthesizer are you using?  Does it happen when moving by word (without selecting) or (while I think of it) - does it happen if you press the right arrow to move by character?

And finally, could you please get a copy of your NVDA log - I put the instructions in my comment, but you can also email them to me at info@... if you prefer as well.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 6:08 AM Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...> wrote:
Hi,
Just giving this a bump because it’s been several days and I still haven’t heard anything from this group nor the GitHub community. Has anybody tried re-creating my issue, and, if so, were you able to? Thanks again.

On Dec 13, 2020, at 2:46 PM, Luke Robinett via groups.io <blindgroupsluke=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:



Hi folks,

 

I created an issue for this several days ago on GitHub but haven’t heard back yet so thought I’d run it by the group in the meantime. When I’m composing a new email in Outlook 365, I get strange behavior when selecting text by word. What I mean is, if I hold down shift and control and then use the left and right cursor keys to select text by words, only every other highlighted word is spoken aloud. For example, if I was selecting the words in the following sentence, from left to right, “I hope everyone is well,” I would hear the following with each press of the right arrow key: I, silence, everyone, silence, well.

NVDA 220.3 on Win10 Home. I hope this makes sense.

 

Thanks,

Luke

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Accessible Google Drive Clients

Kerryn Gunness
 

Hi
i no you asked for an accessible client for g drive
i dont have a client, but g drive and other g suite work well on the web
below are the info

hi
from accessibility central
Using NVDA with Google programs by Roger Benz
The following NVDA Youtube tutorials are courtesy of Roger Benz from Google. They cover Google Drive, Google Docs, Google Sheets and Google Slides. To listen to these tutorials, please click on the link following each of the titles below:
Switch to the new Google Drive using a screen reader https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBDxYOR7CFY&feature=youtu.be
Getting started with Google Drive using a screen reader https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDaZgDXBsWI&feature=youtu.be
Getting started with Google Docs using a screen reader https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPzSAqhHqQk&feature=youtu.be
Getting started with Google Sheets using a screen reader https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCYT63b_m88&feature=youtu.be
Getting started with Google Slides using a screen reader https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWZVQ-vldEk&feature=youtu.be

On 3/15/2020 4:17 AM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:
nvda and google docs, sheets drive etc
all google apps
can nvda work with them?
where do i get the tutorial
thanks


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bhavya shah" <bhavya.shah125@gmail.com>
To: "nvda" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2020 2:11 PM
Subject: [nvda] Accessible Google Drive Clients


Dear all,

I use NVDA version 2020.3 on Windows 10, and am on the lookout for an
alternative Google Drive client. I currently use Google's own Backup
and Sync utility, and my main issue with it is that it does not sync
shared folders. (Shift+Z no longer works.) Additionally, Backup and
Sync is a bit too resource-hungry for my liking and seems to sometimes
cause disproportionate loads. Any suggestions of third-party,
accessible and lightweight Google Drive clients for Windows 10 would
be massively helpful.

I would truly appreciate any assistance with the above.

Thanks.

--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah
Stanford University | Class of 2024
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/




Re: How is verbosity decided

Quentin Christensen
 

Firstly,

Yes you are correct, figures are reported but there is currently no document formatting option to toggle that.  There is, however, an issue for that already - so do feel free to subscribe to that for updates on when it is updated: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10826

The idea of including configuration profiles in NVDA itself is of course possible, but what would be included? (rhetorical question!)

If we did that, then suddenly some programs would behave differently to others - or you'd really want to change a setting, and yet it wouldn't be changed in every program, and why does NVDA read this really useful information in Word but not Firefox?  It would cause more problems than it would solve, especially as how one user uses Word for instance, might be very different to how another user does.

So the best solution, we feel, is to not have any configuration profiles setup by default, but to hopefully teach users how to access them.  I have put forward my idea for improving configuration profiles here: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10322 - as with any other issue, feel free to subscribe to that, or to add your own 2 cents to it if you have a point to add which hasn't been made already on the issue.

The scripts term is a bit confusing.  Most of the time when people use it, they mean either Jaws scripts or NVDA add-ons.  In fact, the term has crept into our "What's new" document (in quite a few places as I look at it now) to mean a software function in NVDA itself.  For instance in 2020.3 one change was:

"The Report formatting script (NVDA+f) has now been changed to report the formatting at the system caret rather than at the review cursor position. To report formatting at the review cursor position now use NVDA+shift+f. (#9505)"

Which refers to NVDA's own internal routine which runs when a user presses NVDA+f.  So Gene's comment about NVDA using "scripts for various programs", is (I think I'm reading his intentions correctly) in line with that usage of the word, and I'm happy to put my hand up and say we can take the blame for that particular confusion :)

Also the difference between bug report and feature request is more around the prompts in the template itself - the issue still ends up in the same place (as an issue), and several people have commented that we should actually add a few more of the prompt questions from the bug report template to the feature request template.  In essence, whatever you are reporting or requesting, try to include as much information as possible which might be relevant, even if it isn't explicitly asked.

Quentin.



On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 9:56 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 05:13 PM, Gene wrote:
newly added announcement of figure and out of figure. I have found no setting to control this announcement.
-
I'll agree that:

1. This could be mighty annoying.
2. It's something that should be toggle-able like most other document formatting announcements are.

My guess is that focus was on getting the function to work, but that adding another checkbox to Document Formatting options slipped through the cracks.  I don't know whether such a request would be considered a bug report versus feature request.  I'd be more inclined toward bug report, as there is a well established collection of settings that would seem to have been the ideal place to add a checkbox for this, but it didn't happen.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: How is verbosity decided

 

Hi,

When you do file a bug report (be sure to check for existing issues first, especially closed ones), be sure to CC me and Quentin (my GitHub ID is josephsl).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of g melconian
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 3:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How is verbosity decided

 

It could be a bug report. As  well as an improvement to  improve the features.  


Re: How is verbosity decided

g melconian
 

It could be a bug report. As  well as an improvement to  improve the features.  


Re: How is verbosity decided

 

On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 05:13 PM, Gene wrote:
newly added announcement of figure and out of figure. I have found no setting to control this announcement.
-
I'll agree that:

1. This could be mighty annoying.
2. It's something that should be toggle-able like most other document formatting announcements are.

My guess is that focus was on getting the function to work, but that adding another checkbox to Document Formatting options slipped through the cracks.  I don't know whether such a request would be considered a bug report versus feature request.  I'd be more inclined toward bug report, as there is a well established collection of settings that would seem to have been the ideal place to add a checkbox for this, but it didn't happen.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 


Re: Outlook 365: Issue with announcement of selected text while composing mail

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Luke,

I just replied to the issue - basically I asked what version of Outlook 365 are you using?  Which synthesizer are you using?  Does it happen when moving by word (without selecting) or (while I think of it) - does it happen if you press the right arrow to move by character?

And finally, could you please get a copy of your NVDA log - I put the instructions in my comment, but you can also email them to me at info@... if you prefer as well.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 6:08 AM Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...> wrote:
Hi,
Just giving this a bump because it’s been several days and I still haven’t heard anything from this group nor the GitHub community. Has anybody tried re-creating my issue, and, if so, were you able to? Thanks again.

On Dec 13, 2020, at 2:46 PM, Luke Robinett via groups.io <blindgroupsluke=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:



Hi folks,

 

I created an issue for this several days ago on GitHub but haven’t heard back yet so thought I’d run it by the group in the meantime. When I’m composing a new email in Outlook 365, I get strange behavior when selecting text by word. What I mean is, if I hold down shift and control and then use the left and right cursor keys to select text by words, only every other highlighted word is spoken aloud. For example, if I was selecting the words in the following sentence, from left to right, “I hope everyone is well,” I would hear the following with each press of the right arrow key: I, silence, everyone, silence, well.

NVDA 220.3 on Win10 Home. I hope this makes sense.

 

Thanks,

Luke

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: NVDA 2020.4 Beta 1 now available

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Quentin,


I just downloaded this new version of NVDA and it's working great so-far.


Rosemarie



On 12/16/2020 2:13 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi everyone,

Lazily copying my tweet - so you get everything in one sentence: NVDA 2020.4Beta1 is now available for testing, including  new Chinese Input methods, an update to Liblouis, the elements list now works in focus mode, context sensitive help pressing F1 in NVDA dialogs & heaps more!


As usual, please do report any issues on GitHub.

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Keyboard

Matthew Whitaker
 

Hi. Currently, there are no solar keyboards that work with IOS and Windows… there are keyboards that work with those operating systems separately though.

On Dec 16, 2020, at 5:28 PM, Darren Tomblin <dtomblin@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi I’m looking for a full size Bluetooth solar keyboard that will work on windows and iOS does anyone know anything like that thanks

73,
Darren Tomblin KC9JJJ




Keyboard

Darren Tomblin
 

Hi I’m looking for a full size Bluetooth solar keyboard that will work on windows and iOS does anyone know anything like that thanks

73,
Darren Tomblin KC9JJJ

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