Date   

Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Gene
 

There is no inherent reason a sighted person can't provide instructions that correspond to the way blind people generally do things on computers or anywhere else.  It depends what they know.


Conversely, and this is being overlooked in the discussion, blind people who know how can provide instructions similar to what a sighted person would provide for a sighted person.


for example, I could tell a sighted person to open a program, click on the tools menu or the gear icon, if I knew that is how it is shown, and it usually is, then click options, and so on.


The ability to do this means that a blind person understands how to apply sighted instructions to using a computer as a blind person usually does.  If blind people know something about translating sighted instructions into blind procedures, they will be able to help themselves learn more programs and can often follow instructions on how to work with this or that feature in programs they already use that are written for sighted people.


If a blind person is interested and wants to learn these things, the benefits may be meaningful to the person.  Many blind people only use programs that have specific instructional material for blind people and their interests don't go further.  But its important that this other side of the discussion be pointed out.


Gene

On 12/30/2020 2:19 PM, Jackie wrote:

I think Arlene was just trying to say that Brian doesn't instruct like
most sighted folks. The context of the message bears that out, I
believe.

Full moon. It hsows. Last of 2020. Ow-oo. Happy New Year, all.

On 12/30/20, Gary Metzler <gmtravel@comcast.net> wrote:
Very well said.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice



Hello Arlene,



I would like to challenge your message and thinking a little bit. I am
posting publicly, because it is an important topic. While you seem to be in
support of Brian, I couldn't help but notice that you stated that Brian
doesn't sound "blind".



What does a blind person sound like? Is it really necessary to judge people
as sounding a certain way? Isn't it better if we choose to not judge, not
have preconceived notions which divide us and put barriers between us? Isn't
the rest of the world already divided? Should we not model, as a community,
the very definition of non-discrimination? That is my ideal, anyway, my hope
in writing this message. We all are human beings. We all are beautiful,
unique souls. The things that bring us together should be the things we
honor and acknowledge. Brian brings so many strengths to the table as a
moderator, we should all appreciate those things about Brian that makes him
the wonderful individual that he is. Same goes for anyone else on this list.
We all have struggles, we all have cultural differences, we all have
differing opinions on politics and whatever else, but at the end of the day,
every single one of you are all beatutiful, human souls, regardless of your
physical characteristics.



For me, I welcome anyone on this list, and as a moderator, without regard to
any physical, religious, sex, etc characteristics, and I urge everyone to
drop your preconceived notions as to who any of us are, and focus please, on
the things that bring us together, and celebrate those things that make us
unique.



Thank you everyone for the support you are showing Brian.



On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 11:32 AM Arlene <nedster66@gmail.com
<mailto:nedster66@gmail.com> > wrote:

I had no clue you can see. The way you talk like the blind users. I thought
you were blind like us. Well, keep up the good work. You’d be a good
advocate for blind users who have to fight with isp providers. You know how
they say click here or there. They have no clue that you are a blind user.
I’ve encountered someone who had no clue that I don’t see. The person said
Oh don’t listen to the screen reader listen to me. I said that screen reader
helps me help you see the screen. He tried to tell me to click a green box.
Just then a sighted friend who happened to know how to talk like us blind
users. She told the person on the phone that I don’t see. He felt like a
fool! This screen reader was NVDA. I don’t know if this is true. This
friend said that NVDA looks more like windows. She described that it
interacts more like you would see windows like a sighted person. Some of
the key commands are similar to Jaws. Even my food safe tutor said the NVDA
screen reader looks more like windows. He had full sight.



Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
10



From: Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@gmail.com>
Sent: December 30, 2020 9:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice



Rosemarie and Arlene,

I just wanted to thank you for your kind words, and particularly
for your saying you'd forgotten or not known that I am sighted. I do
mention this occasionally because I do not want anyone, on any of the blind
technology groups on which I participate, to ever believe I am trying to
impersonate a blind person nor making any claim that I can or do know, a in
lived experience sense, what it is to be blind. I've simply worked with
blind technology and individuals who are blind and visually impaired for
quite a few years now and that's taught me an awful lot.

But it's very nice to know that, at least for the most part, much
of what I now write in these venues reads in such a way that the fact that I
see is not at all readily obvious unless I bring it up or someone else does.
There are times where the fact that I can see is relevant, and it makes
perfect sense for that to be mentioned when it is. But when it's not
germane to the conversation it just isn't.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to
overturn the votes certified by 4 states:] Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling,
but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.
We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan
and John Boehner










--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for
Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
(393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



Thank you, and have a great day!









Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Luis Carlos González Moráles
 

Didn't know about bryan's vision either. Wow, this world is really changing.
Happy new year all, or as I say, "Happy new decade"!
P.S. I'm composing a new decade anthem "if that's the name of it".

Jackie wrote:

I think Arlene was just trying to say that Brian doesn't instruct like
most sighted folks. The context of the message bears that out, I
believe.

Full moon. It hsows. Last of 2020. Ow-oo. Happy New Year, all.

On 12/30/20, Gary Metzler <gmtravel@comcast.net> wrote:
Very well said.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice



Hello Arlene,



I would like to challenge your message and thinking a little bit. I am
posting publicly, because it is an important topic. While you seem to be in
support of Brian, I couldn't help but notice that you stated that Brian
doesn't sound "blind".



What does a blind person sound like? Is it really necessary to judge people
as sounding a certain way? Isn't it better if we choose to not judge, not
have preconceived notions which divide us and put barriers between us? Isn't
the rest of the world already divided? Should we not model, as a community,
the very definition of non-discrimination? That is my ideal, anyway, my hope
in writing this message. We all are human beings. We all are beautiful,
unique souls. The things that bring us together should be the things we
honor and acknowledge. Brian brings so many strengths to the table as a
moderator, we should all appreciate those things about Brian that makes him
the wonderful individual that he is. Same goes for anyone else on this list.
We all have struggles, we all have cultural differences, we all have
differing opinions on politics and whatever else, but at the end of the day,
every single one of you are all beatutiful, human souls, regardless of your
physical characteristics.



For me, I welcome anyone on this list, and as a moderator, without regard to
any physical, religious, sex, etc characteristics, and I urge everyone to
drop your preconceived notions as to who any of us are, and focus please, on
the things that bring us together, and celebrate those things that make us
unique.



Thank you everyone for the support you are showing Brian.



On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 11:32 AM Arlene <nedster66@gmail.com
<mailto:nedster66@gmail.com> > wrote:

I had no clue you can see. The way you talk like the blind users. I thought
you were blind like us. Well, keep up the good work. You’d be a good
advocate for blind users who have to fight with isp providers. You know how
they say click here or there. They have no clue that you are a blind user.
I’ve encountered someone who had no clue that I don’t see. The person said
Oh don’t listen to the screen reader listen to me. I said that screen reader
helps me help you see the screen. He tried to tell me to click a green box.
Just then a sighted friend who happened to know how to talk like us blind
users. She told the person on the phone that I don’t see. He felt like a
fool! This screen reader was NVDA. I don’t know if this is true. This
friend said that NVDA looks more like windows. She described that it
interacts more like you would see windows like a sighted person. Some of
the key commands are similar to Jaws. Even my food safe tutor said the NVDA
screen reader looks more like windows. He had full sight.



Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
10



From: Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@gmail.com>
Sent: December 30, 2020 9:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice



Rosemarie and Arlene,

I just wanted to thank you for your kind words, and particularly
for your saying you'd forgotten or not known that I am sighted. I do
mention this occasionally because I do not want anyone, on any of the blind
technology groups on which I participate, to ever believe I am trying to
impersonate a blind person nor making any claim that I can or do know, a in
lived experience sense, what it is to be blind. I've simply worked with
blind technology and individuals who are blind and visually impaired for
quite a few years now and that's taught me an awful lot.

But it's very nice to know that, at least for the most part, much
of what I now write in these venues reads in such a way that the fact that I
see is not at all readily obvious unless I bring it up or someone else does.
There are times where the fact that I can see is relevant, and it makes
perfect sense for that to be mentioned when it is. But when it's not
germane to the conversation it just isn't.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to
overturn the votes certified by 4 states:] Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling,
but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.
We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan
and John Boehner










--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for
Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
(393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



Thank you, and have a great day!








--
El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electrónico en busca de virus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Jackie
 

I think Arlene was just trying to say that Brian doesn't instruct like
most sighted folks. The context of the message bears that out, I
believe.

Full moon. It hsows. Last of 2020. Ow-oo. Happy New Year, all.

On 12/30/20, Gary Metzler <gmtravel@comcast.net> wrote:
Very well said.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice



Hello Arlene,



I would like to challenge your message and thinking a little bit. I am
posting publicly, because it is an important topic. While you seem to be in
support of Brian, I couldn't help but notice that you stated that Brian
doesn't sound "blind".



What does a blind person sound like? Is it really necessary to judge people
as sounding a certain way? Isn't it better if we choose to not judge, not
have preconceived notions which divide us and put barriers between us? Isn't
the rest of the world already divided? Should we not model, as a community,
the very definition of non-discrimination? That is my ideal, anyway, my hope
in writing this message. We all are human beings. We all are beautiful,
unique souls. The things that bring us together should be the things we
honor and acknowledge. Brian brings so many strengths to the table as a
moderator, we should all appreciate those things about Brian that makes him
the wonderful individual that he is. Same goes for anyone else on this list.
We all have struggles, we all have cultural differences, we all have
differing opinions on politics and whatever else, but at the end of the day,
every single one of you are all beatutiful, human souls, regardless of your
physical characteristics.



For me, I welcome anyone on this list, and as a moderator, without regard to
any physical, religious, sex, etc characteristics, and I urge everyone to
drop your preconceived notions as to who any of us are, and focus please, on
the things that bring us together, and celebrate those things that make us
unique.



Thank you everyone for the support you are showing Brian.



On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 11:32 AM Arlene <nedster66@gmail.com
<mailto:nedster66@gmail.com> > wrote:

I had no clue you can see. The way you talk like the blind users. I thought
you were blind like us. Well, keep up the good work. You’d be a good
advocate for blind users who have to fight with isp providers. You know how
they say click here or there. They have no clue that you are a blind user.
I’ve encountered someone who had no clue that I don’t see. The person said
Oh don’t listen to the screen reader listen to me. I said that screen reader
helps me help you see the screen. He tried to tell me to click a green box.
Just then a sighted friend who happened to know how to talk like us blind
users. She told the person on the phone that I don’t see. He felt like a
fool! This screen reader was NVDA. I don’t know if this is true. This
friend said that NVDA looks more like windows. She described that it
interacts more like you would see windows like a sighted person. Some of
the key commands are similar to Jaws. Even my food safe tutor said the NVDA
screen reader looks more like windows. He had full sight.



Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
10



From: Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@gmail.com>
Sent: December 30, 2020 9:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice



Rosemarie and Arlene,

I just wanted to thank you for your kind words, and particularly
for your saying you'd forgotten or not known that I am sighted. I do
mention this occasionally because I do not want anyone, on any of the blind
technology groups on which I participate, to ever believe I am trying to
impersonate a blind person nor making any claim that I can or do know, a in
lived experience sense, what it is to be blind. I've simply worked with
blind technology and individuals who are blind and visually impaired for
quite a few years now and that's taught me an awful lot.

But it's very nice to know that, at least for the most part, much
of what I now write in these venues reads in such a way that the fact that I
see is not at all readily obvious unless I bring it up or someone else does.
There are times where the fact that I can see is relevant, and it makes
perfect sense for that to be mentioned when it is. But when it's not
germane to the conversation it just isn't.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to
overturn the votes certified by 4 states:] Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling,
but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.
We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan
and John Boehner










--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for
Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
(393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



Thank you, and have a great day!








--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Gary Metzler
 

Very well said.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

 

Hello Arlene,

 

I would like to challenge your message and thinking a little bit. I am posting publicly, because it is an important topic. While you seem to be in support of Brian, I couldn't help but notice that you stated that Brian doesn't sound "blind".

 

What does a blind person sound like? Is it really necessary to judge people as sounding a certain way? Isn't it better if we choose to not judge, not have preconceived notions which divide us and put barriers between us? Isn't the rest of the world already divided? Should we not model, as a community, the very definition of non-discrimination? That is my ideal, anyway, my hope in writing this message. We all are human beings. We all are beautiful, unique souls. The things that bring us together should be the things we honor and acknowledge. Brian brings so many strengths to the table as a moderator, we should all appreciate those things about Brian that makes him the wonderful individual that he is. Same goes for anyone else on this list. We all have struggles, we all have cultural differences, we all have differing opinions on politics and whatever else, but at the end of the day, every single one of you are all beatutiful, human souls, regardless of your physical characteristics.

 

For me, I welcome anyone on this list, and as a moderator, without regard to any physical, religious, sex, etc characteristics, and I urge everyone to drop your preconceived notions as to who any of us are, and focus please, on the things that bring us together, and celebrate those things that make us unique.

 

Thank you everyone for the support you are showing Brian.

 

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 11:32 AM Arlene <nedster66@...> wrote:

I had no clue you can see. The way you talk like the blind users. I thought you were blind like us.  Well, keep up the good work. You’d be a good advocate for blind users who have to fight with isp providers.  You know how they say click here or there. They have no clue that you are a blind user.  I’ve encountered someone who had no clue that I don’t see.  The person said Oh don’t listen to the screen reader listen to me. I said that screen reader helps me help you see the screen.  He tried to tell me to click a green box. Just then a sighted friend who happened to know how to talk like us blind users.  She told the person on the phone that I don’t see.  He felt like a fool! This screen reader was NVDA.  I don’t know if this is true. This friend said that NVDA looks more like windows. She described that it interacts more like you would see windows like a sighted person.  Some of the key commands are similar to Jaws.  Even my food safe tutor said the NVDA screen reader looks more like windows.  He had full sight.   

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: December 30, 2020 9:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

 

Rosemarie and Arlene,

           I just wanted to thank you for your kind words, and particularly for your saying you'd forgotten or not known that I am sighted.  I do mention this occasionally because I do not want anyone, on any of the blind technology groups on which I participate, to ever believe I am trying to impersonate a blind person nor making any claim that I can or do know, a in lived experience sense, what it is to be blind.  I've simply worked with blind technology and individuals who are blind and visually impaired for quite a few years now and that's taught me an awful lot.

           But it's very nice to know that, at least for the most part, much of what I now write in these venues reads in such a way that the fact that I see is not at all readily obvious unless I bring it up or someone else does.  There are times where the fact that I can see is relevant, and it makes perfect sense for that to be mentioned when it is.  But when it's not germane to the conversation it just isn't.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 

 


 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Nimer Jaber
 

Hello Arlene,

I would like to challenge your message and thinking a little bit. I am posting publicly, because it is an important topic. While you seem to be in support of Brian, I couldn't help but notice that you stated that Brian doesn't sound "blind".

What does a blind person sound like? Is it really necessary to judge people as sounding a certain way? Isn't it better if we choose to not judge, not have preconceived notions which divide us and put barriers between us? Isn't the rest of the world already divided? Should we not model, as a community, the very definition of non-discrimination? That is my ideal, anyway, my hope in writing this message. We all are human beings. We all are beautiful, unique souls. The things that bring us together should be the things we honor and acknowledge. Brian brings so many strengths to the table as a moderator, we should all appreciate those things about Brian that makes him the wonderful individual that he is. Same goes for anyone else on this list. We all have struggles, we all have cultural differences, we all have differing opinions on politics and whatever else, but at the end of the day, every single one of you are all beatutiful, human souls, regardless of your physical characteristics.

For me, I welcome anyone on this list, and as a moderator, without regard to any physical, religious, sex, etc characteristics, and I urge everyone to drop your preconceived notions as to who any of us are, and focus please, on the things that bring us together, and celebrate those things that make us unique.

Thank you everyone for the support you are showing Brian.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 11:32 AM Arlene <nedster66@...> wrote:

I had no clue you can see. The way you talk like the blind users. I thought you were blind like us.  Well, keep up the good work. You’d be a good advocate for blind users who have to fight with isp providers.  You know how they say click here or there. They have no clue that you are a blind user.  I’ve encountered someone who had no clue that I don’t see.  The person said Oh don’t listen to the screen reader listen to me. I said that screen reader helps me help you see the screen.  He tried to tell me to click a green box. Just then a sighted friend who happened to know how to talk like us blind users.  She told the person on the phone that I don’t see.  He felt like a fool! This screen reader was NVDA.  I don’t know if this is true. This friend said that NVDA looks more like windows. She described that it interacts more like you would see windows like a sighted person.  Some of the key commands are similar to Jaws.  Even my food safe tutor said the NVDA screen reader looks more like windows.  He had full sight.   

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: December 30, 2020 9:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

 

Rosemarie and Arlene,

           I just wanted to thank you for your kind words, and particularly for your saying you'd forgotten or not known that I am sighted.  I do mention this occasionally because I do not want anyone, on any of the blind technology groups on which I participate, to ever believe I am trying to impersonate a blind person nor making any claim that I can or do know, a in lived experience sense, what it is to be blind.  I've simply worked with blind technology and individuals who are blind and visually impaired for quite a few years now and that's taught me an awful lot.

           But it's very nice to know that, at least for the most part, much of what I now write in these venues reads in such a way that the fact that I see is not at all readily obvious unless I bring it up or someone else does.  There are times where the fact that I can see is relevant, and it makes perfect sense for that to be mentioned when it is.  But when it's not germane to the conversation it just isn't.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 

 



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: NVDA and outlook questions

Arlene
 

I did see that you can use your Microsoft outlook 2010 key. Then I can upgrade to the latest version. I know you can That’s why I was asking if you have to pay.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Dan Miner via groups.io
Sent: December 29, 2020 11:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook questions

 

Yes, please inquiry to Microsoft.  I just use the products.  *smile*

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Smart
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 12:08 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook questions

 

microsoft may know the answer to that one.

 

 

On 2020-12-30 2:01 a.m., Arlene wrote:

Hey, speaking of outlook. If I upgrade from outlook 2010 with my outlook key. Do I have to pay for the upgrade?  I don’t care if I do. I am inquiring.  Thanks.  

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Dan Miner via groups.io
Sent: December 29, 2020 10:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook questions

 

Your version number suggests you have some kind of subscription and Office 365 is the only recent offerings I know of.  So, if that is the case you probably just need to login to your Microsoft account (via the File menu using that account management option) and update.  I did just that about 2 weeks ago.

 

Compared to 2016, the latest Office has been working better in my experiences.  Even the calendar is becoming more and more useable.

 

 

    Dan

> On Dec 29, 2020, at 6:52 PM, Dennis L <dennisl1982@...> wrote:

>

> Does outlook 2019 work better?

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Miner via

> groups.io

> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 5:28 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook questions

>

> Well, if it is a 2016 based version then you likely will have the problem of

> it not reading suggestions easily.  I always had to fiddle around with it to

> get anything.  I vaguely remember using object navigation to dive into the

> enclosing frame   It I was truly needing to use that feature, I would just

> switch to JAWS 18 and it would read in a more natural way.  I would give

> recent Narrator a try and see how it fairs with that dropdown.

>

>    Dan

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L

> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 8:57 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook questions

>

> I believe it is 2016.  This is the version number I got when I used jaws and

> got the version number.

> Microsoft Outlook Subscription Version 16.0.13426.20404 -----Original

> Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Miner via

> groups.io

> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 10:43 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook questions

>

> I have Outlook from Office 365 and if I recall this thread was about the To

> field and reading the type-ahead suggestion reading?  When I was using

> Outlook 2016, I had this problem of it not reading but I did a bit of

> testing again on this version.  It seems to be working fine with the type

> ahead for reading the first suggestion and changing as I progress on typing.

> Also, a simple down arrow will read the remaining suggestions.  I don't

> recall which version you have but I am wondering if that is a factor here.

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L

> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 12:28 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook questions

>

> There is no outlook setting I know of where I have to adjust it for the

> screen reader to properly read other screen readers read it.  so should

> NVDA.

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Griffith

> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 12:40 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook questions

>

>

> I think there is a setting.

> You need to go to, in Outlook to File then Options and then under Mail find

> the setting which says Automatic Name checking  and make sure that that is

> checked.

> I have this checked and if Dennis does not then this may explain the

> different behaviour.

> David G.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene

> Sent: 29 December 2020 03:39

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook questions

>

> I know of no such setting.  This is very likely another instance where you

> have to help the screen-reader in some way by using read current line as you

> type.  I don't know why Outlook is different, in the address bar in the

> browsers I use, autocomplete will read as what I type changes.

>

> Gene

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Dennis L

> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 7:26 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook questions

>

>

>

> I have the setting

>

> Automatic say on page load unchecked.  I was able to get it to read the

> first suggestion but not more suggestions.  Example if I type j and joe

> smith is first it will read that if I continue typing and type john it won’t

> read John smith can this be changed that it will continuously read the

> suggestions?

>

>

>

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Griffith

> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 5:58 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook questions

>

>

>

>

>

> This is slightly odd as this is precisely hwat NVDA does for me in Outlook.

> I have just tried it and if I press K the most recent email I have typed

>

>

>

> whose name begins with K. Pressing the down arrow reveals other addresses

> beginning with K.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I wonder if there is a setting in Outlook about keeping recent addresses you

> need to turn on?

>

>

>

> Having said that it is also true that this feature does not, for me at

> least,  any longer, reveal results from all your contacts. I often have to

> go into the to button and search in there to reveal all my addresses in

> contacts.

>

>

>

> David G.

>

>

>

> On 28/12/2020 21:56, Dennis L wrote:

>

>

>

> Hi, I was wondering is there a way to get NVDA to automatically read the

> suggestions that come up when you are typing the address or persons name who

> the message is to?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Nimer Jaber
 

Hello Jimmy,

No, Brian is not going anywhere, unless he chooses to. Thank you all for your support of Brian!

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 11:36 AM Jimmy Vonderlinden via groups.io <jimmyv1130=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
you are amazing and Ive learned alot from you and everyone on this list. I hope this isn't the end of you or this great llist. I would hate to see it go!
Hope you all have a happy new year!



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Arlene
 

If you did all 3 steps turning off NVDA. Once you hear the exiting sound then there’s silence.  I don’t think you can use its key commands once its gone. You probably can but you’ll hear nothing.   If you entered on a desktop short cut it wil open but you won’t hear what you opened.  

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Tyler Spivey
Sent: December 30, 2020 11:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

 

Can you tell us exactly what happens when you turn off NVDA (or record

it)? Here's what should happen:

1. Press NVDA+q to quit. It should pop up the Exit NVDA dialog.

2. Press enter. You should hear the descending sound indicating NVDA exited.

If you don't, check the log by going to the NVDA menu, Tools, View log.

Can you still use NVDA commands after you do that?

 

On 12/30/2020 10:40 AM, Food Posse wrote:

> What a wonderful group!!

>

> To answer what folks on this list so helpfully offered and asked:

>

> Unfortunately, this is her own personal computer and the only one she

> has so no option to change computers. Narrator is pre-installed but she

> really wants NVDA.

>

> It is definitely NVDA and not Narrator. Narrator is set to only use the

> Caps Lock with a voice higher in pitch and speed to differentiate. NVDA

> only with Insert. This was a really good idea since we did not think of it!

>

> We applied the suggestion to Reset NVDA configuration to factory default

> but the same thing continues.

>

> We uninstalled NVDA through the Apps & features settings option. No

> remaining folders with NVDA. Then downloaded a new copy of NVDA to install.

>

> This is a new computer and we only installed and customized a couple of

> programs so it is not too much of a beast to reinstall windows and do it

> all again. But this will take some time so I wanted to test some of the

> other suggestions first.

>

> But some thoughts are coming to mind that I want to further investigate

> before a complete wipe. Assuming the os is not corrupt, then something

> is keeping an instance of NVDA active or NVDA is attaching itself to

> something active like a utility so I want to follow that logic a bit

> without going indefinitely down a rabbit hole!

>

> Any other ideas is most welcome!

>

>

> On 12/29/2020 2:30 PM, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:

>> 

>> Hi

>> 

>> 

>> When you said you fully uninstalled nvda was that only from program

>> and features?

>> 

>> 

>> There is another area where the settings are keaped that should be

>> deleted if you are having problems if the nvda.ini file mucks up.

>> 

>> 

>> After NvDA has been uninstalled from program and features  do the

>> following.

>> 

>> 

>> Press the windows key + the letter R it will bring up a run dialogue

>> box then type the following %appdata% then press the enter key.

>> 

>> 

>> The next screen that comes up will give you a list of directories

>> find the one called nvda then delete it out then close the screen with

>> the alt + f4 key.

>> 

>> 

>> then reinstall nvda. It might be a good idea actually to grab a fresh

>> copy of it from nvaccess then reinstall it to the pc.

>> 

>> Just in case you got a bad down load before.

>> 

>> 

>> Use the narrator screen reader to do the above unless you have some

>> sight to do it.

>> 

>> 

>> Did you try a factory reset of nvda? this some times fixes any problems.

>> 

>> 

>> Use the nvda key + letter N to bring up the menu when it is running

>> then arrow down to Reset configuration to factory defaults then press

>> the enter key.

>> 

>> 

>> Make sure also that when you go to set it up again you see the message

>> like which layout, do you want to use the caps lock key as a modifier

>> start nvda at startup etc.

>> 

>> 

>> I think the short cut to do the reset is nvda key + ctrl + R 3 times.

>> 

>> 

>> GGene nz

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> On 30/12/2020 4:58 am, Food Posse wrote:

>>> 

>>> Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.

>>> 

>>> We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But

>>> even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing

>>> unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA

>>> default settings.

>>> 

>>> So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens -

>>> Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box

>>> closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to

>>> close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches

>>> at various times like launching an app.

>>> 

>>> This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few

>>> programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was

>>> downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe

>>> before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the

>>> Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants

>>> NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.

>>> 

>>> 

>>> On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:

>>>> I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at

>>>> the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA

>>>> loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop

>>>> opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the

>>>> setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of

>>>> the developers will discuss the matter.

>>>> 

>>>> Gene

>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel

>>>> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM

>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

>>>> 

>>>> On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

>>>> Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the

>>>> log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that

>>>> requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-

>>>> This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks

>>>> I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log

>>>> them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're

>>>> not using that setting.

>>>> 

>>>> Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by

>>>> default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about

>>>> to work with first if one screen reader works with that software

>>>> better than the other.

>>>> 

>>>> Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because

>>>> that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a

>>>> self-restart once explicitly exited from.

>>>> 

>>>> There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you

>>>> described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly

>>>> recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things

>>>> up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing

>>>> so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.

>>>> 

>

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Jimmy Vonderlinden
 

you are amazing and Ive learned alot from you and everyone on this list. I hope this isn't the end of you or this great llist. I would hate to see it go!
Hope you all have a happy new year!


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Arlene
 

I had no clue you can see. The way you talk like the blind users. I thought you were blind like us.  Well, keep up the good work. You’d be a good advocate for blind users who have to fight with isp providers.  You know how they say click here or there. They have no clue that you are a blind user.  I’ve encountered someone who had no clue that I don’t see.  The person said Oh don’t listen to the screen reader listen to me. I said that screen reader helps me help you see the screen.  He tried to tell me to click a green box. Just then a sighted friend who happened to know how to talk like us blind users.  She told the person on the phone that I don’t see.  He felt like a fool! This screen reader was NVDA.  I don’t know if this is true. This friend said that NVDA looks more like windows. She described that it interacts more like you would see windows like a sighted person.  Some of the key commands are similar to Jaws.  Even my food safe tutor said the NVDA screen reader looks more like windows.  He had full sight.   

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: December 30, 2020 9:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

 

Rosemarie and Arlene,

           I just wanted to thank you for your kind words, and particularly for your saying you'd forgotten or not known that I am sighted.  I do mention this occasionally because I do not want anyone, on any of the blind technology groups on which I participate, to ever believe I am trying to impersonate a blind person nor making any claim that I can or do know, a in lived experience sense, what it is to be blind.  I've simply worked with blind technology and individuals who are blind and visually impaired for quite a few years now and that's taught me an awful lot.

           But it's very nice to know that, at least for the most part, much of what I now write in these venues reads in such a way that the fact that I see is not at all readily obvious unless I bring it up or someone else does.  There are times where the fact that I can see is relevant, and it makes perfect sense for that to be mentioned when it is.  But when it's not germane to the conversation it just isn't.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 

 


Re: problem with tab navigation in certain situations

Laz
 

This seems likely. I have one site on which tab does nothing. It's the
site where I enter in orders from our customers. I used to be able to
tab through and fill in the information in the edit fields. When NVDA
started to have this issue I dfound that I could use Narrator to tab
through the fields and it worked fine. I could quit Narrator and start
up NVDA and NVDA would then function using the tab key. That didn't
last very long though and I now have to use a combination of the k key
for links and e for edit fields which adds more klunkiness to what
used to work simply in the past with NVDA.

It's just that one site where this is now an issue.

Laz

On 12/29/20, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
Are you saying that tab stops moving you? I don't know why and there may be

a problem with the way NVDA works with the site. I don't know just how you

are trying to move. if by link, try k. If you want to move in other ways,

we can discuss other ways. Why did you press numpad 2 before pressing down

arrow?

Also, what browser are you using? Though there may be a problem, we don't
know if the problem would still occur with another browser.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 2:35 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with tab navigation in certain situations

I didn't use read to end, I used the down arrows to move past the
point I couldn't get to using tab. The issue is that I shouldn't have
to press anything but tab if this was working properly.

On 12/29/20, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
But what does that mean? I could tell nothing bhy looking at the speech
record except that it appeared you pressed tab more than once with no
response and then you used read to end and then tabbed. What is the
specific problem? What isn't consistent and what movements aren't as
expected.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 2:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with tab navigation in certain situations

I'll have to try that, seems like a decent workaround. I'm used to
navigating these messages by quickly tabbing through them, so that
will take some getting used to. Pressing tab multiple times isn't in
itself the problem though that should be addressed as well, the real
problem is that I can't seem to use the tab key consistently when
navigating in these situations.

On 12/29/20, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
Are you saying that the problem is that you have to press tab more than
once

to move to the next link? Regardless of why that is, use k to move by
link

and see if that solves the problem.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 1:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] problem with tab navigation in certain situations

Hi all,
I'm having a problem with navigation by tab in certain situations. The
below is copied from NVDA's speech viewer as I read an email from
Groupon. For this example, I've turned on speak command keys so I
don't have to remember where I hit what, but I usually leave that off.
Usually, with System Access in both Gmail's web interface and in
Outlook, and with NVDA in Outlook, emails like this work fine, but not
with Gmail on the web and NVDA.
GROUPON® graphic link
tab
url q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.groupo… graphic link link
tab
numpad 2
down arrow
link link graphic url q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.groupo…
tab
Synthetic Mink Lash Extensions link
Vanity Lash Lounge ⋅ Over 50 Bought
(1,922 ratings)
$200 $93 link
tab
numpad 2
down arrow
link Vanity Lash Lounge
tab
View Deal link link
tab
tab
url q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.groupo… graphic link link
tab
tab
tab
numpad 2
down arrow
link link graphic Up to 82% Off Dental Checkups
tab
Dental Checkups
Advanced Dental Solutions
link link
tab
View Deal link link link
tab
tab
numpad 2
down arrow
link
tab
Up to 42% Off Activities at Elevated Sportz graphic link
Trampoline Park Activities
Elevated Sportz
link Over 350 Bought
(1,891 ratings)
$25 $15 View Deal link link link
tab
tab
Trampoline Park Activities
Elevated Sportz
link link
tab
View Deal link link link
tab
tab
numpad 2
down arrow
link
tab
Up to 42% Off Roof Cleaning from Renewal Cleaning graphic link
Roof Blow-Off with Inspection
Renewal Cleaning
link Over 100 Bought
(37 ratings)
$600 $348 View Deal link link link
tab
tab
Roof Blow-Off with Inspection
Renewal Cleaning
link link
tab
View Deal link link link
tab
tab
tab
numpad 2
down arrow
link
tab
34% Off Botox at The Renewal Center in Mukilteo graphic link
Botox
The Renewal Center
link Over 50 Bought
(271 ratings)
$350 $230 View Deal link link link
tab
tab
Botox
The Renewal Center
link link
tab
View Deal link link link
tab
tab
tab
Bob

























--
Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Player/book Reader, Victor
Reader Stream & Trek, blindshell Classic phone, Bluetooth devices, and
accessories
http://www.talkingmp3players.com/
Email: laz@talkingmp3players.com
Phone: 727-498-0121
Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Tyler Spivey
 

Can you tell us exactly what happens when you turn off NVDA (or record it)? Here's what should happen:
1. Press NVDA+q to quit. It should pop up the Exit NVDA dialog.
2. Press enter. You should hear the descending sound indicating NVDA exited.
If you don't, check the log by going to the NVDA menu, Tools, View log.
Can you still use NVDA commands after you do that?

On 12/30/2020 10:40 AM, Food Posse wrote:
What a wonderful group!!
To answer what folks on this list so helpfully offered and asked:
Unfortunately, this is her own personal computer and the only one she has so no option to change computers. Narrator is pre-installed but she really wants NVDA.
It is definitely NVDA and not Narrator. Narrator is set to only use the Caps Lock with a voice higher in pitch and speed to differentiate. NVDA only with Insert. This was a really good idea since we did not think of it!
We applied the suggestion to Reset NVDA configuration to factory default but the same thing continues.
We uninstalled NVDA through the Apps & features settings option. No remaining folders with NVDA. Then downloaded a new copy of NVDA to install.
This is a new computer and we only installed and customized a couple of programs so it is not too much of a beast to reinstall windows and do it all again. But this will take some time so I wanted to test some of the other suggestions first.
But some thoughts are coming to mind that I want to further investigate before a complete wipe. Assuming the os is not corrupt, then something is keeping an instance of NVDA active or NVDA is attaching itself to something active like a utility so I want to follow that logic a bit without going indefinitely down a rabbit hole!
Any other ideas is most welcome!
On 12/29/2020 2:30 PM, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:

Hi


When you said you fully uninstalled nvda was that only from program and features?


There is another area where the settings are keaped that should be deleted if you are having problems if the nvda.ini file mucks up.


After NvDA has been uninstalled from program and features  do the following.


Press the windows key + the letter R it will bring up a run dialogue box then type the following %appdata% then press the enter key.


The next screen that comes up will give you a list of directories
find the one called nvda then delete it out then close the screen with the alt + f4 key.


then reinstall nvda. It might be a good idea actually to grab a fresh copy of it from nvaccess then reinstall it to the pc.

Just in case you got a bad down load before.


Use the narrator screen reader to do the above unless you have some sight to do it.


Did you try a factory reset of nvda? this some times fixes any problems.


Use the nvda key + letter N to bring up the menu when it is running then arrow down to Reset configuration to factory defaults then press the enter key.


Make sure also that when you go to set it up again you see the message like which layout, do you want to use the caps lock key as a modifier start nvda at startup etc.


I think the short cut to do the reset is nvda key + ctrl + R 3 times.


GGene nz



On 30/12/2020 4:58 am, Food Posse wrote:

Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.

We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.

This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.


On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

g melconian
 

brian, I also welcome all your found knowledge of how you approach things and how you make things really well to understand for us blind users. Thanks for you being the moderator of all these different lists that you run with the amount of time that you have in the day. Thank you very much I also support all your efforts and I also have been in communications back and forth with you privately on email chassis communications so I also support everything that you're doing to help out the blind community. Thank you very much and have a good happy holidays. Take care.

On December 30, 2020 9:29:55 AM "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...> wrote:

Rosemarie and Arlene,

           I just wanted to thank you for your kind words, and particularly for your saying you'd forgotten or not known that I am sighted.  I do mention this occasionally because I do not want anyone, on any of the blind technology groups on which I participate, to ever believe I am trying to impersonate a blind person nor making any claim that I can or do know, a in lived experience sense, what it is to be blind.  I've simply worked with blind technology and individuals who are blind and visually impaired for quite a few years now and that's taught me an awful lot.

           But it's very nice to know that, at least for the most part, much of what I now write in these venues reads in such a way that the fact that I see is not at all readily obvious unless I bring it up or someone else does.  There are times where the fact that I can see is relevant, and it makes perfect sense for that to be mentioned when it is.  But when it's not germane to the conversation it just isn't.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 


Re: NVDA using braille in multi-lingual text environment

Mary Otten
 

Thanks again, Jason. That makes sense. Sorry for the elementary questions.


Mary

On 12/30/2020 10:30 AM, Jason White via groups.io wrote:

On 12/30/20 1:12 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
My experience with a display and a computer has been limited to typing on a regular keyboard and reading the output on the display, rather than typing using a braille keyboard; the displays we had didn't have keyboards. So when using a display with a braille keyboard, how does the proper encoding occur?
You can select your input braille table as well as your output table. Of course, it is entirely your decision whether to enter text using the braille display's keyboard or the host system's qwerty keyboard - whichever is easiest under the circumstances.






Re: How to turn off NVDA

 

Well, it absolutely never hurts to try:

1. Using SFC (System File Checker) and DISM (Deployment Imaging Servicing and Management) to Repair Windows 8 & 10

and if that doesn't work:

2. Doing a Windows 10 Repair Install or Feature Update Using the Windows 10 ISO file

 


To see if the issue is resolved.  I would actually uninstall NVDA before doing these, just so we know we have the "cleanest possible system" before putting it back on.

If both of the above do not work, at least you have the ISO file downloaded already, and could pick up in the instructions after that point for, Doing a Completely Clean (Re)install of Windows 10 Using Media Creation Tool to Fetch the Win10 ISO File

 

, if it comes to that.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...>
 

What a wonderful group!!

To answer what folks on this list so helpfully offered and asked:

Unfortunately, this is her own personal computer and the only one she has so no option to change computers. Narrator is pre-installed but she really wants NVDA.

It is definitely NVDA and not Narrator. Narrator is set to only use the Caps Lock with a voice higher in pitch and speed to differentiate. NVDA only with Insert. This was a really good idea since we did not think of it!

We applied the suggestion to Reset NVDA configuration to factory default but the same thing continues.

We uninstalled NVDA through the Apps & features settings option. No remaining folders with NVDA. Then downloaded a new copy of NVDA to install.

This is a new computer and we only installed and customized a couple of programs so it is not too much of a beast to reinstall windows and do it all again. But this will take some time so I wanted to test some of the other suggestions first.

But some thoughts are coming to mind that I want to further investigate before a complete wipe. Assuming the os is not corrupt, then something is keeping an instance of NVDA active or NVDA is attaching itself to something active like a utility so I want to follow that logic a bit without going indefinitely down a rabbit hole!

Any other ideas is most welcome!


On 12/29/2020 2:30 PM, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:

Hi


When you said you fully uninstalled nvda was that only from program and features?


There is another area where the settings are keaped that should be deleted if you are having problems if the nvda.ini file mucks up.


After NvDA has been uninstalled from program and features  do the following.


Press the windows key + the letter R it will bring up a run dialogue box then type the following %appdata% then press the enter key.


The next screen that comes up will give you a list of directories  find the one called nvda then delete it out then close the screen with the alt + f4 key.


then reinstall nvda. It might be a good idea actually to grab a fresh copy of it from nvaccess then reinstall it to the pc.

Just in case you got a bad down load before.


Use the narrator screen reader to do the above unless you have some sight to do it.


Did you try a factory reset of nvda? this some times fixes any problems.


Use the nvda key + letter N to bring up the menu when it is running then arrow down to Reset configuration to factory defaults then press the enter key.


Make sure also that when you go to set it up again you see the message like which layout, do you want to use the caps lock key as a modifier start nvda at startup etc.


I think the short cut to do the reset is nvda key + ctrl + R 3 times.


GGene nz



On 30/12/2020 4:58 am, Food Posse wrote:

Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.

We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.

This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.


On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.


Re: NVDA using braille in multi-lingual text environment

Jason White
 

On 12/30/20 1:12 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
My experience with a display and a computer has been limited to typing on a regular keyboard and reading the output on the display, rather than typing using a braille keyboard; the displays we had didn't have keyboards. So when using a display with a braille keyboard, how does the proper encoding occur?
You can select your input braille table as well as your output table. Of course, it is entirely your decision whether to enter text using the braille display's keyboard or the host system's qwerty keyboard - whichever is easiest under the circumstances.


Re: NVDA using braille in multi-lingual text environment

Mary Otten
 

Thanks, Jason. I will have to look into that add-on. Now for a stupid question. My experience with a display and a computer has been limited to typing on a regular keyboard and reading the output on the display, rather than typing using a braille keyboard; the displays we had didn't have keyboards. So when using a display with a braille keyboard, how does the proper encoding occur? I mean, if I typed on a regular keyboard, I would have to change my keyboard between English and cyrillic as appropriate. Does the braille table handle that functionality for braille input, such that I would switch back and forth between U.S. English grade II and Russian as appropriate? I hope that was clear. Also, can you have a usb keyboard connected and active, so that you would have the choice of typing on the braille keyboard of the display or your regular keyboard? I'm thinking that would be a nice thing, so you could avoid needing computer braille, for example.


Mary



Mary

On 12/30/2020 9:55 AM, Jason White via groups.io wrote:

On 12/30/20 12:29 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
I have recently ordered a braille display. One of the things I'd like to do with it is access multi-lingual texts, e.g. websites, which have both English and cyrillic alphabets in use. In order to do that efficiently, one would need to have a braille table that included both of these alphabets, grade II English and uncontracted Russian, active at the same time, or somehow have a combined table with both at once. Is that possible?
It's possible, but I don't know whether such a table is available. Note also that the BrailleExtender add-on for NVDA allows you to switch tables easily - not what you need in this case, but at least a short-term solution.






Re: NVDA using braille in multi-lingual text environment

Jason White
 

On 12/30/20 12:29 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
I have recently ordered a braille display. One of the things I'd like to do with it is access multi-lingual texts, e.g. websites, which have both English and cyrillic alphabets in use. In order to do that efficiently, one would need to have a braille table that included both of these alphabets, grade II English and uncontracted Russian, active at the same time, or somehow have a combined table with both at once. Is that possible?
It's possible, but I don't know whether such a table is available. Note also that the BrailleExtender add-on for NVDA allows you to switch tables easily - not what you need in this case, but at least a short-term solution.


Word 2013 ribbon and NVDA 2020.3

bering.p
 

Hi.
I don'find t the link.
So this is the log:
nvda log
Best regards.
Paul.
Le 30/12/2020 11:13, Lukasz Golonka via groups.io a écrit :

Unfortunately list does not allow attachments, so I haven't got your log.
Please activate the link that says ', Reply To Sender' at the bottom of
the message and attach it there.


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