Date   

Re: link on email

Gene
 

The reply to sender link doesn't work with Thunderbirdd. I don't use the link anyway. The reason is that if you know how to reply to the sender using your e-mail program, you can reply to the sender on any e-mail list that shows the sender's address in the message you receive. I don't think other list serves have a mail to sender link. And, as may be the case here, even if a link is provided it may not work or work properly in your e-mail client.

In Thunderbird, reply to the sender in the following way:
Open the message you want to reply to the sender from.
Tab once. Then shift tab until you get to from and hear the sender's address.

Open the context menu and down arrow to an item that says something like send message to, compose message to, or something similar. I don't recall the exact wording. Press enter. A new blank message will be opened and you would write a subject and message. This doesn't reply to the message that is opened, but it’s a way to reply privately and you can discuss the message you are replying to.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Don H
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2021 11:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] link on email

Links work as they should which are part of a email message body and all
the other links on the bottom of the messages work as they should just
the reply to sender doesn't work. Using the latest version of
thunderbird on a win 10 20h2.

On 1/1/2021 11:12 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
There are any number of reasons that could be. More information is needed.

Presuming the Reply to Sender link is formatted correctly as mailto:personxyz@abcd.com <mailto:personxyz@abc.com> then it should open correctly in either the e-mail client you have set in Windows as the default client or in the webmail you're using if you activate it there.

What's happening? Any error messages? Do you have a default e-mail client defined and is that client the same as the one you're reading in? There are a number of things that need checking.
--

Brian -Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:] /Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next. We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy./

~ Brendan Buck, /former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner/


Re: link on email

Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@...>
 

The thread in reference is here:
https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/topic/problem_with_links_in_email/78672628?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,100,78672628

On 1/1/21, Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@gmail.com> wrote:
There was a thread about this very issue less than a month ago, let me
see if I can find it and link to it in the archives.

On 1/1/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
Don,

A mailto link and a regular link are two different things.  I have given
you
things to check.  Whether you wish to follow up is entirely up to you,
but
without those answers, it is absolutely impossible to get to the root of
the
issue.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

[ Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas
to
overturn the votes certified by 4 states: ] Pleased with the SCOTUS
ruling,
but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes
next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and
John
Boehner






Re: link on email

Sarah k Alawami
 

I can also search the thunderbird list as well as this is being discussed now, or it was as of last week. Some links work, most of them do not.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 1 Jan 2021, at 10:59, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

There was a thread about this very issue less than a month ago, let me
see if I can find it and link to it in the archives.

On 1/1/21, Brian Vogel britechguy@... wrote:

Don,

A mailto link and a regular link are two different things.  I have given you
things to check.  Whether you wish to follow up is entirely up to you, but
without those answers, it is absolutely impossible to get to the root of the
issue.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

[ Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to
overturn the votes certified by 4 states: ] Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling,
but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes
next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John
Boehner


Re: link on email

Sarah k Alawami
 

I think this might be a thunderbird thing. Try tabbing to the link and hitting enter. I can get it to work fine. what happens, any error messages etc?

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 1 Jan 2021, at 10:02, Brian Vogel wrote:

Don,

        A mailto link and a regular link are two different things.  I have given you things to check.  Whether you wish to follow up is entirely up to you, but without those answers, it is absolutely impossible to get to the root of the issue.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 


Re: link on email

Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@...>
 

There was a thread about this very issue less than a month ago, let me
see if I can find it and link to it in the archives.

On 1/1/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
Don,

A mailto link and a regular link are two different things.  I have given you
things to check.  Whether you wish to follow up is entirely up to you, but
without those answers, it is absolutely impossible to get to the root of the
issue.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

[ Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to
overturn the votes certified by 4 states: ] Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling,
but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes
next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John
Boehner






Re: link on email

 

Don,

        A mailto link and a regular link are two different things.  I have given you things to check.  Whether you wish to follow up is entirely up to you, but without those answers, it is absolutely impossible to get to the root of the issue.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 


Re: SPSS and NVDA

mohammad suliman
 

Hello all,

From what I have heard in the past, SPSS is partially accessible. Haven't tested that my self, so can't provide  my experience. I think that there where some accessibility changes in recent years, because a friend of mine has told me that the software wasn't accessible. However, the issue is, since this program is java based, then to have it accessible, you need to enable and configure the so called Java Access Bridge. I am welling to help with this because I have done this a few years a go, I need to remind myself with the details, but this is ok. I also can suggest to try to ask the same question on the blind math list, I think they will be more helpful to you. Let me know if you need help with joining or something else.

All the best!
Mohammad

On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 at 11:36 Sharad Koirala <shakoirala@...> wrote:
hi william,
I have been skipping the part of works that use SPSS as much as
possible and when it is not possible I ask my sighted friends to do
the calculations and give me the final analyses in a word document.
thanks to them for preparing tables of the results and providing it to
me.

Enjoy,

On 12/31/20, William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
> Well, you mentioned that you need to use SPSSS regularly, so how do you
> use it if it is not accessible?
>
>
> harad Koirala 於 31/12/2020 11:17 寫道:
>
>> hi,
>>
>> my work also requires regular use of SPSS which I have been skipping on my
>> own loss.
>>
>> I had raised the issue about it in the NVDAcon Asia which happened around
>> 2015-16 where Joseph Lee was very elaborate in answering the question but
>> the technicalities could not go into my head :) (I am not a wise tech
>> user). Anyway, the conclusion was that SPSS was not accessible with NVDA
>> and changes were to be made by both IBM (the developer of SPSS) and NVDA
>> to make it usable with a screen reader.
>>
>> Since then, I have been waiting for the development.
>>
>> Sincerely yours,
>> Dr. Sharad Koirala
>> Lecturer
>> Department of Community Medicine
>> Gandaki Medical College, Pokhara, Nepal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Dr. Sharad Koirala
Lecturer
Department of Community Medicine
Gandaki Medical College, Pokhara, Nepal






Re: link on email

Don H
 

Links work as they should which are part of a email message body and all the other links on the bottom of the messages work as they should just the reply to sender doesn't work. Using the latest version of thunderbird on a win 10 20h2.

On 1/1/2021 11:12 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
There are any number of reasons that could be.  More information is needed.
Presuming the Reply to Sender link is formatted correctly as mailto:personxyz@abcd.com <mailto:personxyz@abc.com> then it should open correctly in either the e-mail client you have set in Windows as the default client or in the webmail you're using if you activate it there.
What's happening?  Any error messages?  Do you have a default e-mail client defined and is that client the same as the one you're reading in?  There are a number of things that need checking.
--
Brian -Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042
[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:] /Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy./
        ~ Brendan Buck, /former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner/


Re: link on email

 

There are any number of reasons that could be.  More information is needed.

Presuming the Reply to Sender link is formatted correctly as mailto:personxyz@... then it should open correctly in either the e-mail client you have set in Windows as the default client or in the webmail you're using if you activate it there.

What's happening?  Any error messages?  Do you have a default e-mail client defined and is that client the same as the one you're reading in?  There are a number of things that need checking.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 


Re: Odd arrow keys and speak current character behavior with MinTTY under Windows Subsystem for Linux

Tony Malykh
 

1. If you are using it on windows, you do need to specify path to less. On most Linux installations less should be already on your path, as well as in Cygwin. That is mentioned in my documentation.

2. I am not aware of skip word functionality in NVDA.

3.Something you might consider using to skip over URLs is my Phonetic Punctuation add-on. You can specify a regexp for URL and have it replaced with a short sound. But the catch is that it doesn't differentiate between applications, so then you'll replace URLs with sounds everywhere.

On 12/31/2020 8:35 PM, Dan Miner via groups.io wrote:

Ok, I downloaded it and read the README and still scratching my head about the pager extension.  I  think it is assuming less is on the system path which isn’t the case for newer installations from the installers.  And if it was doing that, I would remove  it.  I use Cygwin and MSYS2 and the last I need is them crossing over in unexpected ways.  As less isn’t native on Windows 10 (yet?), I guess I would need to adjust the pipe suffix text to point directly to a cygwin less binary.

 

But the quick try so far, I ssh’ed into my raspberry and did an apt update… A truly irritating  experience with current NVDA behaviors….  It was much better  as it is full of rapid URL fetches and percentages that is generally unhelpful to hear the whole lot.  It still got a batch of them towards the end when it paused for some reason.  I honestly would like to find a way to mediate the whole reading of URLs in all contexts. 

 

Is there a some magic key combo to say “skip currently spoken word?”  As I believe NVDA is sending it on as a “word” and the TTS blindly reads it in the most annoying manner possible.  If I could just say.. “skip that piece and continue”.

 

                Dan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Malykh
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 5:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io; nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Odd arrow keys and speak current character behavior with MinTTY under Windows Subsystem for Linux

 

For what it's worth, I wrote a new add-on Console Toolkit. Always wanted to write something for myself, but your message finally made me to find some time and do so. Basically you can capture output of any command with it, it works by redirectign output to "less" command and then interacting with it and reading the output page by page. Works in cmd.exe and bash, possibly over ssh, but requires some configuration.

HTH

--Tony

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Dan Miner via groups.io" <dminer84@...>

Sent: 12/21/2020 11:00:04 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Odd arrow keys and speak current character behavior with MinTTY under Windows Subsystem for Linux

 

The shift modifier did the trick so now I can jump to the top or bottom quickly.  Now just need “Go to line” kind of feature and targeted navigation will have decent support.   Like pressing shift+keypad 5, then it could prompt for input and I enter 6 and it moves the review cursor to line 6 of the object, and for extra credit: 6,15 to move to line 6 and position 15.  The next one of less use is “where am I?” to report the believed line and position of the cursor in the object.  And the one I am surprised to not find is text search via review cursor in a terminal like display.. even dialog boxes would benefit.

 

As for “What is prompt tracking”, I see I wasn’t clear.  It’s the little bit of text throw out by shells before waiting on user input.  Any modest command-line user is aware of them but they can be a bother to find easily.  There was a screen reader that did a surprisingly good job noting these natural “stopping points” in the user’s interactions and kind of treated them like a bookmark or annotation to be used like a latter to climb up and down the terminal session.  Great for referencing and linking ideas together.

 

As for emacs, I think much of the barebones support is there since bash is quite emacs-like.  It is the control key combos which do movement and modifications which is missing.  Most they just need to read character or word, etc the current position.  This is how I would approach vim support too initially.  It is the navigation by non-arrow key means which causes problems and it is common in vim.  Vim (and vi based editors) use a neat compositional  approach to its command structure which will help support the basics.

 

Then line numbered displays with monitored (quiet or live) regions and we have a decent text area canvas to paint our wonderous creations upon.  The gotcha is knowing the app within the terminal to use an app switching approach like regular Windows apps.

 

Ah well… I can dream…

 

    Dan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Malykh
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 5:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Odd arrow keys and speak current character behavior with MinTTY under Windows Subsystem for Linux

 

Yeah, clip.exe is great if you are in MSYS or WSL.
> review: go to top of screen
Try Shift+Numpad 7?
Finding things in review mode can be a nice feature.
What is prompt tracking ? NVDA seems to be pretty responsive in command prompt, and you can even navigate control+Left/right, nVDA would track all the words correctly. It probably won't work as well in bash, since the definition of the word is different. That's why I want to write command line editor add-on for NVDA....

As for VIM support or emacs support, people have been talking for a long time, but it seems to me that not enough people are actually using either vim or emacs, so nobody has actually spent time on this. Most NVDA users either use specialized IDEs for coding, or something like Notepad++. And also it is not quite clear how to improve accessibility of emacs/vim - that is there is no way for screenreader to identify what's running inside the command prompt application, especially given the fact that emacs/vim can run from within SSH session.

 

On 12/21/2020 10:30 AM, Dan Miner via groups.io wrote:

I’ll take a closer look at your add-on.

 

For my usage of “cut & paste”, I am usually only pasting into a terminal.  And I do like that review mark & copy mechanism  For the larger copy needs, I was just redirecting to a file and yanking it open in something like notepad.  But I recently ran across a Windows CLI utility  called clip.exe which can remove all of that or shorten up the steps.  Works withinMSYS2, Cygwin, and WSL (must be clip.exe or aliased somehow to drop the .exe).

 

My wish list is a bit different, I want faster navigation tools for the terminal like there was back in the late 80s and early 90s.  A DOS screen reader back then was a terminal navigation ninja.  At a minimum, I need “review: go to top of screen” and “review: Find first occurrence” plus “review: Find Next”  A real nice to have would be prompt tracking and using a key combo to go backward and forward along the “prompt blocks”.  Then there is good vim within the terminal support… *sigh*

 

                Dan

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Malykh
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 9:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Odd arrow keys and speak current character behavior with MinTTY under Windows Subsystem for Linux

 

So for pasting things, I implemented a function that pastes into command prompt window even when context menu is not available. You can get it in my Tony's enhancements add-on - you'd need to enable it in the options, it is disabled by default.

For copying things out of command prompt I would still try to use review cursor. Or for copying large amounts of data, like large output of some command, I have some scripts where on Linux side I save it to a shared folder, and on Windows I periodically check that shared folder and copy things to clipboard as they appear.

But yeah, I wish there was a single good terminal solution, that works for NVDA. I think too few blind people work in terminals, so things are what they are. Sometimes I am thinking, someone should just implmement a simple terminal from within NVDA - something that would be accessible to begin with - in the end there is no rocket science in terminals....

--Tony

On 12/20/2020 10:23 PM, Dan Miner via groups.io wrote:

Well, I’ll take a peek and see if I can make any sense of it.

 

As for why, I find myself in WSL, mSYS2 and Cygwin depending on the task I am trying to do or testing.  It would be helpful to have a consistent terminal for them all and MinTTY is the closest I know of.  Regarding using Cmd console, it doesn’t work in ways needed for anything that prompts for a password in the Cygwin-style.  So, ssh, svn and “native git” will fail horribly and hair loss is soon to follow.

 

I’m actually a Linux guy trying to adapt to developing on Windows and for Windows.  Thus, I keep running back to UNIX-like land when my blood pressure gets too high.  *smiley*

 

The WSL standard terminal (basically Cmd but not quite) has an accessibility bug and will not respond to ALT+spacebar to open the system menu.  I couldn’t turn on cut and paste until recently  because my object navigation skills in NVDA reached a level I could find the system menu in the terminal UI object structure and get the mouse over there and simulate a left lick on it.

 

Now if I could figure out why the terminal audible bell doesn’t work for any minty (WSL, MSYS2 or Cygwin)…

    Dan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Malykh
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2020 10:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Odd arrow keys and speak current character behavior with MinTTY under Windows Subsystem for Linux

 

If you would like to debug this yourself, you can probably start with class Terminal - defined in NVDAObjects/behaviors.py.

But also, just curious, why can't you use normal command prompt if things are working fine there? If I remember correctly MSYS can run in command prompt.

On a side note, I have been suffering from poor editing experience in command line too, mostly over ssh connections, soI have been thinking about an add-on that would provide a better way to edit command in command line - it will try to identify current text in command line and open it up in a fully accessible edit box, then after editing it will update it back in the command line. So whenever I have some free time, I'll work on this.

HTH

--Tony

On 12/9/2020 9:59 AM, Dan Miner via groups.io wrote:

Just wanted to check to see if I am doing something wrong but I am having troubles editing shell commands with minty in any environment that uses it so far (Git for Windows, msys2 and WSLTTY).

 

I just installed the latest versions of Git for Windows, msys2 and WSLTTY in the last week And ran across a “consistent” problem.  I am using bash in its default configuration from these packages (Ubuntu 20.04.1 for WSL2).

 

 

The initial set up to reproduce problem (keeping it simple):

 

Type: echo hi

 

Without hitting return and intending to edit that line, changing hi (all lowercase) to Hi (with a capital H).

 

Press left arrow and “space” is spoken” and if you continue hitting the left or right arrows, you will always get “space” said.  So, it is easy to get lost as none of the under lying characters are spoken.  Thus, I hit the speak current character (Keypad 2) and I get an inconsistent spoken output of “space” or the character under the cursor.  Typical instances it will alternate between the two states and one time I got repeating twice.  To clarify, it would say “space”, “space” “h”, “h”, and cycle back to “space”.  But in this simple example and movement, it will likely just alternate back and forth between “space” and the letter (“I” in this case).

 

A partial workaround I have found is using bash’s readline advanced editing keys.  If I use control+left arrow and move by word, NVDA will speak the words as expected.  However, I still have to deal with arrow key problem and speak character issues within the word of interest.

 

Is anyone seeing this behavior?  It has been going on for many versions of NVDA (easily a year).

 

As sanity check, the standard cmd console behaves as expected with these features.

 

    Dan


link on email

Don H
 

Have noticed that the link on emails sent from this list for reply to sender does not work.


Re: Question about the EMClient app

Tony Malykh
 

Consider installing my eM Client accessibility add-on:

https://github.com/mltony/nvda-em-client/

It is still work in progress, there are still some things that are not accessible, but should improve your experience already.

On 1/1/2021 6:05 AM, Lauren Burger wrote:

Hello.  My name is Lauren.  I starting the EMClient program. I am hard time getting into it with NVDA.  I would like to know how to sign into it and use it accessibly with NVDA. Please let me know. Thank you for your consideration.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: NVDA shortcuts for Google Meet

 

There are scads of Google Keyboard shortcuts related to Meet and Workspace in general.

This page gives a very short quick list that includes identifying who's speaking:  https://support.google.com/meet/answer/9298571?visit_id=637451137996381846-3895569988&rd=1#meet   CTRL+ALT+A,S

I do not use Google Meet, but when in a meeting SHIFT+? is supposed to bring up the comprehensive list of keyboard shortcuts available.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 


Re: Question about the EMClient app

 

Lauren,

              I am not quite sure what you mean by "sign in to it."  eM Client, like other email client programs, is not signed in to, per se.  You set up your e-mail account or accounts like you do in virtually any other these days, and if it's with one of the major or many of the minor service providers all you will do is provide your e-mail address and password and it will do the rest.

              ALT+M,A or just ALT+A opens the Accounts dialog, and the add account button is at the top.  I have to SHIFT+TAB several times to land on it.

              eM Client is still not 100% accessible, though they have taken feedback during beta phases and seem very receptive to more in an effort to make it more accessible.  I believe that several group members here worked with it during the last beta and gave feedback.  A good example of lack of perfect accessibility is once you activate the Add Account button.  The dialog to add account opens, and you are in the edit box for your e-mail address, but NVDA just says EDIT.  It appears that the box is not labeled such that the screen reader can announce it.

               I do think there are several members now using eM Client as their daily driver for e-mail, so I'm imagining the main interface is 100% accessible or very close to it.  But I'll leave it to those who do use it to identify it's good, and bad, points.  I only work with it when doing testing.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Gene
 

I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.



NVDA shortcuts for Google Meet

Akshaya Choudhary
 

Hello everyone,

Are there any NVDA specific shortcuts for Google Meet, other than the standard 5-6 general Meet shortcuts?
I have to regularly attend classes on Meet, and I find it very difficult to recognise who is speaking at a given moment in a big class. If there is an add-on for the same, do let me know.

All suggestions are welcome.

--
Regards,
Sociohack


Question about the EMClient app

Lauren Burger
 

Hello.  My name is Lauren.  I starting the EMClient program. I am hard time getting into it with NVDA.  I would like to know how to sign into it and use it accessibly with NVDA. Please let me know. Thank you for your consideration.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: SPSS and NVDA

Sharad Koirala
 

hi william,
I have been skipping the part of works that use SPSS as much as
possible and when it is not possible I ask my sighted friends to do
the calculations and give me the final analyses in a word document.
thanks to them for preparing tables of the results and providing it to
me.

Enjoy,

On 12/31/20, William <xsuper.sillyx@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, you mentioned that you need to use SPSSS regularly, so how do you
use it if it is not accessible?


harad Koirala 於 31/12/2020 11:17 寫道:

hi,

my work also requires regular use of SPSS which I have been skipping on my
own loss.

I had raised the issue about it in the NVDAcon Asia which happened around
2015-16 where Joseph Lee was very elaborate in answering the question but
the technicalities could not go into my head :) (I am not a wise tech
user). Anyway, the conclusion was that SPSS was not accessible with NVDA
and changes were to be made by both IBM (the developer of SPSS) and NVDA
to make it usable with a screen reader.

Since then, I have been waiting for the development.

Sincerely yours,
Dr. Sharad Koirala
Lecturer
Department of Community Medicine
Gandaki Medical College, Pokhara, Nepal








--
Dr. Sharad Koirala
Lecturer
Department of Community Medicine
Gandaki Medical College, Pokhara, Nepal


NVDA 2020.4 beta 2 automatically read messages when opened

Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

This was not the case in 2020.3 I had automatic reading turned off under browse mode when the page loads and it didn’t read. Now it does how do I fix this?


Re: Odd arrow keys and speak current character behavior with MinTTY under Windows Subsystem for Linux

Dan Miner
 

Ok, I downloaded it and read the README and still scratching my head about the pager extension.  I  think it is assuming less is on the system path which isn’t the case for newer installations from the installers.  And if it was doing that, I would remove  it.  I use Cygwin and MSYS2 and the last I need is them crossing over in unexpected ways.  As less isn’t native on Windows 10 (yet?), I guess I would need to adjust the pipe suffix text to point directly to a cygwin less binary.

 

But the quick try so far, I ssh’ed into my raspberry and did an apt update… A truly irritating  experience with current NVDA behaviors….  It was much better  as it is full of rapid URL fetches and percentages that is generally unhelpful to hear the whole lot.  It still got a batch of them towards the end when it paused for some reason.  I honestly would like to find a way to mediate the whole reading of URLs in all contexts. 

 

Is there a some magic key combo to say “skip currently spoken word?”  As I believe NVDA is sending it on as a “word” and the TTS blindly reads it in the most annoying manner possible.  If I could just say.. “skip that piece and continue”.

 

                Dan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Malykh
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 5:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io; nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Odd arrow keys and speak current character behavior with MinTTY under Windows Subsystem for Linux

 

For what it's worth, I wrote a new add-on Console Toolkit. Always wanted to write something for myself, but your message finally made me to find some time and do so. Basically you can capture output of any command with it, it works by redirectign output to "less" command and then interacting with it and reading the output page by page. Works in cmd.exe and bash, possibly over ssh, but requires some configuration.

HTH

--Tony

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Dan Miner via groups.io" <dminer84@...>

Sent: 12/21/2020 11:00:04 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Odd arrow keys and speak current character behavior with MinTTY under Windows Subsystem for Linux

 

The shift modifier did the trick so now I can jump to the top or bottom quickly.  Now just need “Go to line” kind of feature and targeted navigation will have decent support.   Like pressing shift+keypad 5, then it could prompt for input and I enter 6 and it moves the review cursor to line 6 of the object, and for extra credit: 6,15 to move to line 6 and position 15.  The next one of less use is “where am I?” to report the believed line and position of the cursor in the object.  And the one I am surprised to not find is text search via review cursor in a terminal like display.. even dialog boxes would benefit.

 

As for “What is prompt tracking”, I see I wasn’t clear.  It’s the little bit of text throw out by shells before waiting on user input.  Any modest command-line user is aware of them but they can be a bother to find easily.  There was a screen reader that did a surprisingly good job noting these natural “stopping points” in the user’s interactions and kind of treated them like a bookmark or annotation to be used like a latter to climb up and down the terminal session.  Great for referencing and linking ideas together.

 

As for emacs, I think much of the barebones support is there since bash is quite emacs-like.  It is the control key combos which do movement and modifications which is missing.  Most they just need to read character or word, etc the current position.  This is how I would approach vim support too initially.  It is the navigation by non-arrow key means which causes problems and it is common in vim.  Vim (and vi based editors) use a neat compositional  approach to its command structure which will help support the basics.

 

Then line numbered displays with monitored (quiet or live) regions and we have a decent text area canvas to paint our wonderous creations upon.  The gotcha is knowing the app within the terminal to use an app switching approach like regular Windows apps.

 

Ah well… I can dream…

 

    Dan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Malykh
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 5:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Odd arrow keys and speak current character behavior with MinTTY under Windows Subsystem for Linux

 

Yeah, clip.exe is great if you are in MSYS or WSL.
> review: go to top of screen
Try Shift+Numpad 7?
Finding things in review mode can be a nice feature.
What is prompt tracking ? NVDA seems to be pretty responsive in command prompt, and you can even navigate control+Left/right, nVDA would track all the words correctly. It probably won't work as well in bash, since the definition of the word is different. That's why I want to write command line editor add-on for NVDA....

As for VIM support or emacs support, people have been talking for a long time, but it seems to me that not enough people are actually using either vim or emacs, so nobody has actually spent time on this. Most NVDA users either use specialized IDEs for coding, or something like Notepad++. And also it is not quite clear how to improve accessibility of emacs/vim - that is there is no way for screenreader to identify what's running inside the command prompt application, especially given the fact that emacs/vim can run from within SSH session.

 

On 12/21/2020 10:30 AM, Dan Miner via groups.io wrote:

I’ll take a closer look at your add-on.

 

For my usage of “cut & paste”, I am usually only pasting into a terminal.  And I do like that review mark & copy mechanism  For the larger copy needs, I was just redirecting to a file and yanking it open in something like notepad.  But I recently ran across a Windows CLI utility  called clip.exe which can remove all of that or shorten up the steps.  Works withinMSYS2, Cygwin, and WSL (must be clip.exe or aliased somehow to drop the .exe).

 

My wish list is a bit different, I want faster navigation tools for the terminal like there was back in the late 80s and early 90s.  A DOS screen reader back then was a terminal navigation ninja.  At a minimum, I need “review: go to top of screen” and “review: Find first occurrence” plus “review: Find Next”  A real nice to have would be prompt tracking and using a key combo to go backward and forward along the “prompt blocks”.  Then there is good vim within the terminal support… *sigh*

 

                Dan

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Malykh
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 9:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Odd arrow keys and speak current character behavior with MinTTY under Windows Subsystem for Linux

 

So for pasting things, I implemented a function that pastes into command prompt window even when context menu is not available. You can get it in my Tony's enhancements add-on - you'd need to enable it in the options, it is disabled by default.

For copying things out of command prompt I would still try to use review cursor. Or for copying large amounts of data, like large output of some command, I have some scripts where on Linux side I save it to a shared folder, and on Windows I periodically check that shared folder and copy things to clipboard as they appear.

But yeah, I wish there was a single good terminal solution, that works for NVDA. I think too few blind people work in terminals, so things are what they are. Sometimes I am thinking, someone should just implmement a simple terminal from within NVDA - something that would be accessible to begin with - in the end there is no rocket science in terminals....

--Tony

On 12/20/2020 10:23 PM, Dan Miner via groups.io wrote:

Well, I’ll take a peek and see if I can make any sense of it.

 

As for why, I find myself in WSL, mSYS2 and Cygwin depending on the task I am trying to do or testing.  It would be helpful to have a consistent terminal for them all and MinTTY is the closest I know of.  Regarding using Cmd console, it doesn’t work in ways needed for anything that prompts for a password in the Cygwin-style.  So, ssh, svn and “native git” will fail horribly and hair loss is soon to follow.

 

I’m actually a Linux guy trying to adapt to developing on Windows and for Windows.  Thus, I keep running back to UNIX-like land when my blood pressure gets too high.  *smiley*

 

The WSL standard terminal (basically Cmd but not quite) has an accessibility bug and will not respond to ALT+spacebar to open the system menu.  I couldn’t turn on cut and paste until recently  because my object navigation skills in NVDA reached a level I could find the system menu in the terminal UI object structure and get the mouse over there and simulate a left lick on it.

 

Now if I could figure out why the terminal audible bell doesn’t work for any minty (WSL, MSYS2 or Cygwin)…

    Dan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Malykh
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2020 10:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Odd arrow keys and speak current character behavior with MinTTY under Windows Subsystem for Linux

 

If you would like to debug this yourself, you can probably start with class Terminal - defined in NVDAObjects/behaviors.py.

But also, just curious, why can't you use normal command prompt if things are working fine there? If I remember correctly MSYS can run in command prompt.

On a side note, I have been suffering from poor editing experience in command line too, mostly over ssh connections, soI have been thinking about an add-on that would provide a better way to edit command in command line - it will try to identify current text in command line and open it up in a fully accessible edit box, then after editing it will update it back in the command line. So whenever I have some free time, I'll work on this.

HTH

--Tony

On 12/9/2020 9:59 AM, Dan Miner via groups.io wrote:

Just wanted to check to see if I am doing something wrong but I am having troubles editing shell commands with minty in any environment that uses it so far (Git for Windows, msys2 and WSLTTY).

 

I just installed the latest versions of Git for Windows, msys2 and WSLTTY in the last week And ran across a “consistent” problem.  I am using bash in its default configuration from these packages (Ubuntu 20.04.1 for WSL2).

 

 

The initial set up to reproduce problem (keeping it simple):

 

Type: echo hi

 

Without hitting return and intending to edit that line, changing hi (all lowercase) to Hi (with a capital H).

 

Press left arrow and “space” is spoken” and if you continue hitting the left or right arrows, you will always get “space” said.  So, it is easy to get lost as none of the under lying characters are spoken.  Thus, I hit the speak current character (Keypad 2) and I get an inconsistent spoken output of “space” or the character under the cursor.  Typical instances it will alternate between the two states and one time I got repeating twice.  To clarify, it would say “space”, “space” “h”, “h”, and cycle back to “space”.  But in this simple example and movement, it will likely just alternate back and forth between “space” and the letter (“I” in this case).

 

A partial workaround I have found is using bash’s readline advanced editing keys.  If I use control+left arrow and move by word, NVDA will speak the words as expected.  However, I still have to deal with arrow key problem and speak character issues within the word of interest.

 

Is anyone seeing this behavior?  It has been going on for many versions of NVDA (easily a year).

 

As sanity check, the standard cmd console behaves as expected with these features.

 

    Dan

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