Date   

Selecting Files

Christopher Gray
 

Hello:

 

When I use ctrl+shft+downarrow or ctrl+shft+downarrow to select one or more files, nothing is selected.  I have tried changing scroll lock, testing my keyboard under Windows 10 and other MS suggestions but to no avail.  Any thoughts here?

 

Many thanks.

 

Chris

 

 


Re: Add-on version 21.01 released: Enhanced Touch Gestures, Resource Monitor, StationPlaylist, Windows 10 App Essentials #addonrelease

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


You must have the following add on installed into nvda called add on updater which can be found at https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/addonUpdater.en.html <https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/addonUpdater.en.html>

After it has been installed into nvda it will then look for compatible add ons and look for a newer version of that add on.


I think you can also force it to look for updated add ons by going to tools then check for check for add on updates then follow directions.


there are some I guess call third party add ons which will not work with it until a add on author makes it compatible with the add on updater.

I mean by this they may come off other websites.

So they will not be updated.


Gene nz

On 6/01/2021 10:41 pm, aad leeflang wrote:
hello joseph,

i am not so familiar with nvda but i use the station playlist ad-on.
i understand that i can jupdate the ad-on to use it with station playlist 5.30.
you wrote that you can update add-ons by using the updater.
i have been looking at the add-ons in my list but there is no update add-on button there.
can you please tell me how i can update them?

many thanks,
aad leeflang




Re: Add-on version 21.01 released: Enhanced Touch Gestures, Resource Monitor, StationPlaylist, Windows 10 App Essentials #addonrelease

 

Hello,

         I'm not Joseph, but what he's saying is that all add-ons will be checked to see if they are at their latest versions, and you'll be alerted that new updates are available if they are not, if you install the Add-On Updater Add-On.

         It even checks whether it is up to date, and will tell you when a newer version of itself becomes available.  I believe that this functionality will eventually be integrated into the NVDA core code, but until then the easiest way to have something monitor your collection of Add-Ons to make sure you have the latest is to use Add-On Updater.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Add-on version 21.01 released: Enhanced Touch Gestures, Resource Monitor, StationPlaylist, Windows 10 App Essentials #addonrelease

aad leeflang
 

hello joseph,

i am not so familiar with nvda but i use the station playlist ad-on.
i understand that i can jupdate the ad-on to use it with station playlist 5.30.
you wrote that you can update add-ons by using the updater.
i have been looking at the add-ons in my list but there is no update add-on button there.
can you please tell me how i can update them?

many thanks,
aad leeflang


Add-on version 21.01 released: Enhanced Touch Gestures, Resource Monitor, StationPlaylist, Windows 10 App Essentials #addonrelease

 

Hello everyone,

Four add-ons were updated to version 21.01:

  • Enhanced Touch Gestures: dedicated touch support toggle command was removed from the add-on as NVDA provides one. As a result, NVDA 2020.3 or later is required, and Enhanced Touch Gestures settings panel is hereby removed. For Windows 10 Version 1709 (Fall Creators Update/build 16299) users, performing a four finger flick left from a text field will summon dictation feature (Windows+H).
  • Resource Monitor: Windows version information is shortened. On Windows 8.x, Windows version announcement will now include build.revision information similar to the one Windows 10 users are accustomed to.
  • StationPlaylist: version 21.01 requires NVDA 2020.3 ion order to take advantage of recent GUI feature changes from NVDA, and SPL Studio 5.30 or later is required. Also, version 20.09.5-LTS (long-term support) version is also available for Studio 5.20 users, and I expect it will be the second to last 20.09.x release.
  • Windows 10 App Essentials: version 21.01 is the last version to support Windows 10 Version 1909 (November 2019 Update/build 18363), with the next stable version requiring Version 2004 (May 2020 Update/build 19041) or later. It also restores support for recent Mail and Calendar app and resolves history and memory list item announcements in Calculator. Also, from 21.01, NVDA 2020.3 or later is required.

 

As always, the new add-on updates can be retrieved via Add-on Updater or from community add-ons website.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Betsy Grenevitch
 

I really do not have time to join a chat like that. I already have difficulty staying up with my email some days as it is so will just see if what I learn from the course I have begun today will give me what I need. Thanks for the offer, though.


On 1/5/2021 6:59 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 02:51 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:
Brian, I would love to have that type of training. I would need the time to be able to write down specific notes and steps to follow so I could relate to them later as they will not be remembered
-
Then I would really, really encourage you to engage in the Chat Subgroup where you can engage in Q&A to your heart's content, and ask at your own pace.

My only suggestion is that you give specific requests, e.g., Can someone walk me through ordering an item on Amazon?, rather than something like, "Can someone teach me how to shop online?"   The second question is just too broad to be answered, as sites vary wildly as to the exact details of their interfaces, while single sites like Amazon tend to be as close to 100% consistent as they can be, regardless of what you're ordering.

Were this to be an accurate example, and the thing you want to order is not private in nature, even stating what that is can be really helpful for anyone who wants to assist.  You can give far more exact descriptions of what the person who's asking will actually encounter.

It has been my experience that once someone has confidence on how to do a defined thing in a specific venue, they can generalize to a related thing in that specific venue relatively easily.  And it's far easier to teach or guide when you as the teacher or guide know what the destination is.

Here are the addresses for the NVDA Chat Subgroup, which allows discussion of anything within the bounds of civil discourse, not just NVDA:

To join:  chat+subscribe@nvda.groups.io

To post:  chat@nvda.groups.io

To unsubscribe:  chat+unsubscribe@nvda.groups.io

To receive a message containing the group description, and a list of these commands:  chat+help@nvda.groups.io

To stop receiving messages via email (you may still read messages on the Web):  chat+nomail@nvda.groups.io

This can also be used to put a vacation stop on group messages, then use one of the addresses below to resume delivery in the format of your choice.

To receive each group messages individually:  chat+single@nvda.groups.io

This is the default delivery unless you send a message to one of the addresses that follows.

To receive group messages in an HTML formatted digest:  chat+fulldigest@nvda.groups.io

To receive group messages in a plain text digest:  chat+digest@nvda.groups.io

To receive a daily summary instead of individual messages:  chat+summary@nvda.groups.io

To receive only special messages:  chat+special@nvda.groups.io

To contact the group owner(s):  chat+owner@nvda.groups.io 
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 

--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

 

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 02:51 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:
Brian, I would love to have that type of training. I would need the time to be able to write down specific notes and steps to follow so I could relate to them later as they will not be remembered
-
Then I would really, really encourage you to engage in the Chat Subgroup where you can engage in Q&A to your heart's content, and ask at your own pace.

My only suggestion is that you give specific requests, e.g., Can someone walk me through ordering an item on Amazon?, rather than something like, "Can someone teach me how to shop online?"   The second question is just too broad to be answered, as sites vary wildly as to the exact details of their interfaces, while single sites like Amazon tend to be as close to 100% consistent as they can be, regardless of what you're ordering.

Were this to be an accurate example, and the thing you want to order is not private in nature, even stating what that is can be really helpful for anyone who wants to assist.  You can give far more exact descriptions of what the person who's asking will actually encounter.

It has been my experience that once someone has confidence on how to do a defined thing in a specific venue, they can generalize to a related thing in that specific venue relatively easily.  And it's far easier to teach or guide when you as the teacher or guide know what the destination is.

Here are the addresses for the NVDA Chat Subgroup, which allows discussion of anything within the bounds of civil discourse, not just NVDA:

To join:  chat+subscribe@nvda.groups.io

To post:  chat@nvda.groups.io

To unsubscribe:  chat+unsubscribe@nvda.groups.io

To receive a message containing the group description, and a list of these commands:  chat+help@nvda.groups.io

To stop receiving messages via email (you may still read messages on the Web):  chat+nomail@nvda.groups.io

This can also be used to put a vacation stop on group messages, then use one of the addresses below to resume delivery in the format of your choice.

To receive each group messages individually:  chat+single@nvda.groups.io

This is the default delivery unless you send a message to one of the addresses that follows.

To receive group messages in an HTML formatted digest:  chat+fulldigest@nvda.groups.io

To receive group messages in a plain text digest:  chat+digest@nvda.groups.io

To receive a daily summary instead of individual messages:  chat+summary@nvda.groups.io

To receive only special messages:  chat+special@nvda.groups.io

To contact the group owner(s):  chat+owner@nvda.groups.io 
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

 

Thats a hard question.

What is your opinion of access in general?

Mine is that the program in question is fully usable, with readable documentation at minimal in a structured accessible pdf or failing that html with the right headings.

Daisy would be nice but for all practical purposes a standard html document is what I'd go for any day or text, word, etc whatever.

The program must have keyboard shortcuts, settings that are easy to understand, menus or heck I guess ribbons that are easy to understand though I am a menu kind a guy.

If its a universal app, its web interface should be easy to navigate, with buttons which are labeled and alt text in the right places.

Self voicing is an option but having the ability to run something like tolque and run sapi and screen reader support would be nice.

Having actual reader access with an addon like nvda or jaws I guess would be nice, but if it uses standard controls then its going to work.

No customised styles, fonts or extras would be nice but again if its labeled then fine.

If it had the same interface no matter what system or configuration is also a pluss.

I don't need a dumbed down interface for the blind, unless there is a simple and advanced mode for various things and I can easily switch.

Most of this is simple stuff.

Look at ccleaner for example.

Button labeling and checkboxes were the simple thing, settings with labeled controls deciding what you chose, shortcut keys without conflicts.

An easy to understand system.

Would I have liked a dumbed down interface which had spaciffic things for the blind, probably not.

With accessibility you really want something to be accessible or rather usable to every user.

That means you shouldn't need nvda addons or jaws scripts to work with it.

You shouldn't need spaciffic libraries to work with it and screen reader/sapi support.

You shouldn't need dumbed down interfaces.

As long as its designed right then it should all just work.

Of course a lot of stuff uses coding engines and generators and those may or may not do everything or put things in you are not aware of.

This aint a perfect world though, so as long as its got standard controles and its all labeled and easy to configure and use thats about what I'd expect.

Customised shortcuts and sound notifications especially if there is a custom soundscheme and the ability to add extra sound schemes where appropriate is also good.

Another thing is that once you have an interface, try to keep it the same or at least keep every new interface if it needs extras the same standard as the old one.

CCleaner was originally fully accessible.

Then it got changed, then it got put back.

There are a few plusses.

Its not a given but right now anything universal will use a web component, so if the web bits work generally the rest will work enough to be used.

If its chromeum based there is a chance it will work to.

Of course you will want to adjust things but still.

I have not seen any programs actually holding your hand as such lately.

On 6/01/2021 10:57 am, Jaffar Sidek wrote:
Hi.  I think, really, that the question that should be asked is:

to what point does the need for accessibility borders onto the need to be spoilt and spoon fed, isn't it?  Cheers!

On 6/1/2021 2:37 am, tim wrote:
So you mean like how Microsoft is doing with VS code?
Guess the program-l list has to give up its Microsoft developers on the list to. After all Microsoft only let them join to see how the blind use there product.


On 1/4/2021 3:49 PM, Gene wrote:
It isn't our own language.  Some sighted people use the keyboard.  However, in this era, when everything is defined as a right, requiring manufacturers to produce instructions specifically for blind people is not something I would advocate.  Blind people shouldn't expect to have everything done for such a small group.  You might be able to argue that manuals should have versions written for blind people since in the sighted versions, they use pictures and diagrams and icons, but beyond a certain point, blind people need to take responsibility for what they can do and know.

I have no objection to tutorials being produced to teach blind people how to use programs using terminology and descriptions generally used by blind people, but at what point does this right end?

Should a designer of shareware or freeware be required to have instructions written for blind people if his program is used by a lot of blind people? Are you advocating that every help topic regarding Windows and Microsoft Office have a blindness version?

If a specialized piece of software has one-hundred blind users in America, should the developer be required to have instructions using the keyboard for such a small user base even if a lot more sighted people use it?

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Orlando Enrique Fiol via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 1:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read

At 12:45 PM 1/4/2021, Brian Vogel wrote:
The reason I say that is you will, eventually, be given instructions
by a kindly but clueless sighted person who says, "Click on the
paperclip button," because that's what they see and they know,
implicitly, what it does.  It's really handy to have had someone
who's instructing you give you the sighted/announced pairs just
because you're likely to be confronted with only the former at some point.
But I do agree that, particularly if the audience is a blind one, I'd
likely reverse the ordering of the twins, giving the announced name
(or something awfully close to it, I never remember them all,
perfectly) first with the icon description afterward.
Windows is completely translated into dozens of
languages. When Chinese or Japanese speakers do
tech support for their compatriots, they don't
use English terms for Windows elements because
those elements have all been translated into
their languages. While Hindi or Hebrew speakers
understand that they must know English in order
to talk about Windows with non-Indians or
Israelis, they aren't burdened with the task of
learning English just to use Windows.
This is a good analogy because we as blind people
have allowed ourselves be bamboozled out of
rights that all non-English speakers have. Every
software manufacturer knows that if they don't
produce translated versions, they won't sell
product to non-English speakers. Yet, no software
manufacture--large or small--has been made to
feel similar pressure about producing (for lack
of a better word) blind versions or translations.
This is because non-English speakers petition
software manufacturers to produce translated
versions. Those who know English even offer to do
these translations for free. Whereas, we have
people among us insisting that our language is
provincial, inferior and the primary reason we
keep getting "left behind". Sighted Spanish and Portuguese speakers

don't get "left behind" for being unable to use
Windows in English. Microsoft has never
arrogantly maintained that they must learn
English in order to use Windows because that
position would constitute economic suicide. Only
us blind people have been ingrained with such
self-loathing that we would ridiculously insist,
when communicating with each other, to use
exclusively sighted terms such as points, clicks
and icons, when we have a perfectly functional
keyboard-oriented language of our own.
Orlando Enrique Fiol















Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

 

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 02:43 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:
Please realize when you have expectations for your group members to be able to perform, that for some us, it may not always be possible because of things like this.
-
You know, I don't think I have ever said, ever, anything that would be counter to this.  There are exception cases to "the typical" all the time.

I can't win here.  If I try to cover all the bases it becomes hideously long, hard to follow, and the central points disappear.  When I do what I think appropriate, and that is to address "the general case," many seem to think it's an edict that must be applied to everyone, equally, without any consideration of other factors.  It isn't.

Far too often my own writing is harder to follow than it might be because I'm trying to cover far too many bases.  If anything, I am trying to make an effort to avoid a litany of exceptions and caveats, which I definitely recognize, and focus on the general case.  Any one of us can play the, "But what if?," game such that it never ends.

And I hasten to say here, Betsy, that all of the above is in no way aimed at you, personally, but is triggered by your observation.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Jaffar Sidek <jaffar.sidek10@...>
 

Hi.  I think, really, that the question that should be asked is:

to what point does the need for accessibility borders onto the need to be spoilt and spoon fed, isn't it?  Cheers!

On 6/1/2021 2:37 am, tim wrote:
So you mean like how Microsoft is doing with VS code?
Guess the program-l list has to give up its Microsoft developers on the list to. After all Microsoft only let them join to see how the blind use there product.


On 1/4/2021 3:49 PM, Gene wrote:
It isn't our own language.  Some sighted people use the keyboard.  However, in this era, when everything is defined as a right, requiring manufacturers to produce instructions specifically for blind people is not something I would advocate.  Blind people shouldn't expect to have everything done for such a small group.  You might be able to argue that manuals should have versions written for blind people since in the sighted versions, they use pictures and diagrams and icons, but beyond a certain point, blind people need to take responsibility for what they can do and know.

I have no objection to tutorials being produced to teach blind people how to use programs using terminology and descriptions generally used by blind people, but at what point does this right end?

Should a designer of shareware or freeware be required to have instructions written for blind people if his program is used by a lot of blind people? Are you advocating that every help topic regarding Windows and Microsoft Office have a blindness version?

If a specialized piece of software has one-hundred blind users in America, should the developer be required to have instructions using the keyboard for such a small user base even if a lot more sighted people use it?

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Orlando Enrique Fiol via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 1:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read

At 12:45 PM 1/4/2021, Brian Vogel wrote:
The reason I say that is you will, eventually, be given instructions
by a kindly but clueless sighted person who says, "Click on the
paperclip button," because that's what they see and they know,
implicitly, what it does.  It's really handy to have had someone
who's instructing you give you the sighted/announced pairs just
because you're likely to be confronted with only the former at some point.
But I do agree that, particularly if the audience is a blind one, I'd
likely reverse the ordering of the twins, giving the announced name
(or something awfully close to it, I never remember them all,
perfectly) first with the icon description afterward.
Windows is completely translated into dozens of
languages. When Chinese or Japanese speakers do
tech support for their compatriots, they don't
use English terms for Windows elements because
those elements have all been translated into
their languages. While Hindi or Hebrew speakers
understand that they must know English in order
to talk about Windows with non-Indians or
Israelis, they aren't burdened with the task of
learning English just to use Windows.
This is a good analogy because we as blind people
have allowed ourselves be bamboozled out of
rights that all non-English speakers have. Every
software manufacturer knows that if they don't
produce translated versions, they won't sell
product to non-English speakers. Yet, no software
manufacture--large or small--has been made to
feel similar pressure about producing (for lack
of a better word) blind versions or translations.
This is because non-English speakers petition
software manufacturers to produce translated
versions. Those who know English even offer to do
these translations for free. Whereas, we have
people among us insisting that our language is
provincial, inferior and the primary reason we
keep getting "left behind". Sighted Spanish and Portuguese speakers

don't get "left behind" for being unable to use
Windows in English. Microsoft has never
arrogantly maintained that they must learn
English in order to use Windows because that
position would constitute economic suicide. Only
us blind people have been ingrained with such
self-loathing that we would ridiculously insist,
when communicating with each other, to use
exclusively sighted terms such as points, clicks
and icons, when we have a perfectly functional
keyboard-oriented language of our own.
Orlando Enrique Fiol












Re: problems using NVDA with my new laptop

Gene
 

That may have been true in the past but it isn't now. numpad commands work in either setting.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Grossoehme
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2021 12:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problems using NVDA with my new laptop



Good Day: I have seen this problem before. It's possible that the NVDA settings in keyboard settings is set to laptop. If so, none of the numpad keys for NVDA will work. She will need to go into NVDA and change that to desktop. In order to answer this, she would need to check and see if any of the numpad key commands work in NVDA..

Dave




On 12/29/2020 7:23 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:


Gene, I have used numpad very little until getting this laptop. I assume you mean just pushing the numpad 7 by itself when nomlock is off, right? If that is the case it does not do anything if it can be used in an email as that is where I tried it. When I push any of those three numbers it just says clipboard. If you would like for me to write you privately, please let me know.







On 12/29/2020 7:52 PM, Gene wrote:


it might help clarify things if we knew the answer to the following question:

When you use numpad commands by themselves, do they work correctly? In other words, does numpad 8 read the current line of the object you are on? Does numpad 7 move to the previous line and numpad 9 move to the next line?





I also did a bit of experimentation and if a current or near current version of NVDA is being used, it doesn't matter, for what we are discussing, if laptop or desktop mode is being used. it may for other commands, but the numpad review commands such as shift 7, 8, and 9, work in both modes. Before continuing with any experimentation, do the following to make completely sure you are working in the correct screen-review mode:

Issue the command numpad insert numpad 1 until you hear no previous review mode. If you changed review modes at some point, you may well have unexpected results.





Gene


On 12/29/2020 6:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 06:40 PM, Nevzat Adil wrote:
Since you are using a laptop NVDA should be on laptop keyboard layout.-
I'm sorry, but that's incorrect and, in actuality, very seldom the case or necessary. If you have a laptop that has a number pad as part of its built in keyboard NVDA installs using desktop keyboard layout because it can since all the keys are there.

I only have folks use laptop layout if they are already familiar with it and prefer it, or if they have a laptop that does not have a number pad as part of its built in keyboard. That is the minority of laptops produced today.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:] Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next. We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner




--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Betsy Grenevitch
 

Brian, I would love to have that type of training. I would need the time to be able to write down specific notes and steps to follow so I could relate to them later as they will not be remembered (refer to my most recent post before this one).


Please let me know what we need to arrange to make this training possible.


I would also love to have training using NVDA of how to feel comfortable navigating a site such as NV Access and purchasing something. I am one of those that was mentioned the other day of doing something wrong and not being able to get out of it. I have always been a little fearful of that but with this memory situation that fear has only become worse. This is why I try to write down what I will hear when certain steps are taken or situations arise.

I desire to become more independent in situations like this in case my daughter is not here to help as she does now.


Brian, I think I mentioned the other day that I have appreciated your help in the past.



On 1/4/2021 6:23 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 05:57 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:
I am so technologically challenged that most manuals are not written in a vocabulary or step order that I am able to follow.
-
And you're far from alone in that.  Believe me, even for computer geeks there is an awful lot of documentation that leaves a very great deal to be desired.

Betsy, you know I've lent you a hand directly on occasions, and I would be happy to keep doing so in regard to polishing your web and/or archive search skills such that you know the process for zeroing in on what you're looking for in a very great many cases.  That would be a great Chat Subgroup topic for any and all who want to join in and improve such skills.

It's impossible to get things such that you will likely get the one and only answer that's the one you prefer, but at least you can get something that will allow you to plow through the minimum number of search results to get maximum information.  It's an art form where, when teaching it, I try to teach people to "aim for the middle by being as specific as one reasonably can," then either becoming less specific if you get nothing or next to nothing, or supply a few more specific terms in the search if you're inundated by many thousands of results.  You, and anyone, can develop the skill that allows you to turn a fire hose down to a syringe and any volume in between.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 

--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Betsy Grenevitch
 

Chris, thank you for mentioning this course. I may have heard about it in the past but had forgotten about it. I just purchased it and plan on going through it.


Another thing that has not been discussed here is those with memory problems. The reason I bring this up is that I am one of those in that category. They know it is not Alzheimer's but otherwise it is not diagnosed because I have been told the eyes are needed for most of the tests and I do not have those. The point I am getting to is that if I have not done something on the computer, sometimes for even just a few days, I totally forget how to do it. I am also finding out that I panic more if I cannot find something I am searching for in a short matter of time. I also am finding it more difficult to learn auditorily. I am finding that I need to write a lot of computer tasks down step by step listing what I will hear with each step that I take. I realize that there will be a day when I will no longer be able to use a computer to do anything.

If I am not careful, I am also finding it difficult to find where I put notes for different things on my notetaker. I am really having to be more specific with my file names in order to find steps for different situations.


Please realize when you have expectations for your group members to be able to perform, that for some us, it may not always be possible because of things like this.

On 1/4/2021 6:06 PM, Chris Smart wrote:
Betsy, have you tried the NVDA basic training?


I'm going through it now, after using another screen reader for many years, and I find it to be quite well written and organized, with lots of little exercises to actually work through.





--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876


Re: Vocalizer and Eloquence from CodeFactory and punctuation level

Daniel Gartmann
 

 

Sorry. I forgot to test something here. Please disregard my previous message. It seems to work anyway.

 

Daniel

 

 

Fra: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> På vegne af Daniel Gartmann
Sendt: 5. januar 2021 19:02
Til: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Emne: [nvda] Vocalizer and Eloquence from CodeFactory and punctuation level

 

 

Hello,

 

I am using the Vocalizer add-on from codeFactory.

 

When I try to make two different configuration profiles each with a different level of symbols and punctuation e.g most and some, I cannot return to these settings when switching between these profiles. They are set to “all”.

 

Before digging any further into this, I wanted to ask if anybody  else is having this issue and if there is any information from CodeFactory about this or even a work-around?

 

Thanks and best regards

 

Daniel

 

 


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

tim
 

So you mean like how Microsoft is doing with VS code?
Guess the program-l list has to give up its Microsoft developers on the list to. After all Microsoft only let them join to see how the blind use there product.

On 1/4/2021 3:49 PM, Gene wrote:
It isn't our own language.  Some sighted people use the keyboard. However, in this era, when everything is defined as a right, requiring manufacturers to produce instructions specifically for blind people is not something I would advocate.  Blind people shouldn't expect to have everything done for such a small group.  You might be able to argue that manuals should have versions written for blind people since in the sighted versions, they use pictures and diagrams and icons, but beyond a certain point, blind people need to take responsibility for what they can do and know.
I have no objection to tutorials being produced to teach blind people how to use programs using terminology and descriptions generally used by blind people, but at what point does this right end?
Should a designer of shareware or freeware be required to have instructions written for blind people if his program is used by a lot of blind people? Are you advocating that every help topic regarding Windows and Microsoft Office have a blindness version?
If a specialized piece of software has one-hundred blind users in America, should the developer be required to have instructions using the keyboard for such a small user base even if a lot more sighted people use it?
Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Orlando Enrique Fiol via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 1:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read
At 12:45 PM 1/4/2021, Brian Vogel wrote:
The reason I say that is you will, eventually, be given instructions
by a kindly but clueless sighted person who says, "Click on the
paperclip button," because that's what they see and they know,
implicitly, what it does.  It's really handy to have had someone
who's instructing you give you the sighted/announced pairs just
because you're likely to be confronted with only the former at some point.
But I do agree that, particularly if the audience is a blind one, I'd
likely reverse the ordering of the twins, giving the announced name
(or something awfully close to it, I never remember them all,
perfectly) first with the icon description afterward.
Windows is completely translated into dozens of
languages. When Chinese or Japanese speakers do
tech support for their compatriots, they don't
use English terms for Windows elements because
those elements have all been translated into
their languages. While Hindi or Hebrew speakers
understand that they must know English in order
to talk about Windows with non-Indians or
Israelis, they aren't burdened with the task of
learning English just to use Windows.
This is a good analogy because we as blind people
have allowed ourselves be bamboozled out of
rights that all non-English speakers have. Every
software manufacturer knows that if they don't
produce translated versions, they won't sell
product to non-English speakers. Yet, no software
manufacture--large or small--has been made to
feel similar pressure about producing (for lack
of a better word) blind versions or translations.
This is because non-English speakers petition
software manufacturers to produce translated
versions. Those who know English even offer to do
these translations for free. Whereas, we have
people among us insisting that our language is
provincial, inferior and the primary reason we
keep getting "left behind". Sighted Spanish and Portuguese speakers
don't get "left behind" for being unable to use
Windows in English. Microsoft has never
arrogantly maintained that they must learn
English in order to use Windows because that
position would constitute economic suicide. Only
us blind people have been ingrained with such
self-loathing that we would ridiculously insist,
when communicating with each other, to use
exclusively sighted terms such as points, clicks
and icons, when we have a perfectly functional
keyboard-oriented language of our own.
Orlando Enrique Fiol


Re: problems using NVDA with my new laptop

Dave Grossoehme
 

Good Day:  I have seen this problem before.  It's possible that the NVDA settings in keyboard settings is set to laptop.  If so, none of the numpad keys for NVDA will work.  She will need to go into NVDA and change that to desktop.  In order to answer this, she would need to check and see if any of the numpad key commands work in NVDA..

Dave


On 12/29/2020 7:23 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:

Gene, I have used numpad very little until getting this laptop. I assume you mean just pushing the numpad 7 by itself when nomlock is off, right? If that is the case it does not do anything if it can be used in an email as that is where I tried it. When I push any of those three numbers it just says clipboard. If you would like for me to write you privately, please let me know.



On 12/29/2020 7:52 PM, Gene wrote:

it might help clarify things if we knew the answer to the following question:

When you use numpad commands by themselves, do they work correctly?  In other words, does numpad 8 read the current line of the object you are on?  Does numpad 7 move to the previous line and numpad 9 move to the next line? 


I also did a bit of experimentation and if a current or near current version of NVDA is being used, it doesn't matter, for what we are discussing, if laptop or desktop mode is being used.  it may for other commands, but the numpad review commands such as shift 7, 8, and 9, work in both modes.  Before continuing with any experimentation, do the following to make completely sure you are working in the correct screen-review mode:

Issue the command numpad insert numpad 1 until you hear no previous review mode.  If you changed review modes at some point, you may well have unexpected results.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 6:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 06:40 PM, Nevzat Adil wrote:
Since you are using a laptop NVDA should be on laptop keyboard layout.
-
I'm sorry, but that's incorrect and, in actuality, very seldom the case or necessary.  If you have a laptop that has a number pad as part of its built in keyboard NVDA installs using desktop keyboard layout because it can since all the keys are there.

I only have folks use laptop layout if they are already familiar with it and prefer it, or if they have a laptop that does not have a number pad as part of its built in keyboard.  That is the minority of laptops produced today.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 

--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876


Vocalizer and Eloquence from CodeFactory and punctuation level

Daniel Gartmann
 

 

Hello,

 

I am using the Vocalizer add-on from codeFactory.

 

When I try to make two different configuration profiles each with a different level of symbols and punctuation e.g most and some, I cannot return to these settings when switching between these profiles. They are set to “all”.

 

Before digging any further into this, I wanted to ask if anybody  else is having this issue and if there is any information from CodeFactory about this or even a work-around?

 

Thanks and best regards

 

Daniel

 

 


locked Re: activating actions center notifications

 

Orlando,

            As you well know, this isn't an NVDA or JAWS or any screen-reader specific issue, so this is really off topic for the NVDA group.  I only say this because you have elected to topic split, but it's an off-topic topic for this venue.

            You would be well advised to dig into this more deeply with other screen reader users on the Windows 10 for Screen Reader User's Group:

I'll leave this topic open in case you wish to make a final quick response, but whether you elect to do so or not, I'll eventually lock it as it's not on-topic here and the only "special dispensation" for any topic since I've been here has been for that other topic now approaching 200 messages.  I've got to enforce the rules, and the rare exceptions when they're made, consistently.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

 

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 12:37 AM, Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
If you listened to lurkers more and pontificated less
-
If you can tell me how to listen to lurkers, please do.  Since lurkers, by definition, lurk and don't speak, that's a conundrum of epic proportions.

I'll gladly cop to pontificating, and even perhaps more than necessary in many instances, but this whole topic has been awash in pontification from many sources, one of which is yourself.

By the way, to be abundantly clear with regard to excuses, I am not saying that you're making them for yourself.  But when you come out with something like your temporal difference in processing speed argument, in direct response to my observation, "Why not? I do, your sighted friend does. Even with the additional challenge, you (the generic blind you) are not granted special dispensation from plowing through results, many of which may be of limited or no use,"  I want you to explain to me how that doesn't read as excusing people from their obligation to do what needs to be done.  You are saying two diametrically opposite things when you object as you did to that observation, yet in the next breath agree wholeheartedly about the obligation to do so with, "Refusing to do something because it's too hard is predicated on the false premise that humans are only designed to do what comes easily."

And the idea that I'm waving away the complexities, rather than focusing on the core argument, is laughable.  You can give me a thousand examples of things that I'll agree with, but that I know to be uncommon.  I'm not looking at the outlier situations, but that big ol' hump in the middle of the bell curve.

Your desire to over-psychologize is duly noted, and largely dismissed.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


locked Re: activating actions center notifications

Orlando Enrique Fiol
 

At 11:23 PM 1/4/2021, Brian Vogel wrote:
First, I will tell you that your experience is not limited to you, or
those using the keyboard. The action center has always been flaky,
at least for me.
What then do Windows engineers expect users to do with their notifications? I subscribe to a few newsfeeds. Upon reading one of their notifications, I'm not about to hunt down the exact URL of the story or post for which I've received a notification. that would be like having to push a car or hand-crank a refrigerator.

Second, this is one of those situations where it's easier in many
instances to use my literal ability to see what is, or is not,
happening to solve an issue. If, at some point, you have a long list
of notifications in the action center, and we could arrange a Quick
Assist session with a simultaneous phone call, I can see and listen to
see if I can determine what a root cause might be.
Any time, kind sir. My notifications list is always well-populated, mainly because I can't activate most notifications and keep a few in which I still stubbornly retain hope.

It can sometimes be user error, but sometimes it's absolutely
not. But having actual
examples, currently active, and observing what occurs is the best way
for me to get a handle on why something may be falling through the
cracks.? There are a number of people here who have "been there, done
that" with me, because it was impossible for me to figure out what was
actually happening (or not happening) sans certain visual cues that
mean a great deal when I see 'em.
--
I dig that. I'm down to talk any time, about this or any of our various sundry outstanding topics. This notification issue frustrates me because there's false advertising going on here. If yall sightlings can click on list items, we should be able to use our mouse simulation keys to do the same. That's their entire purpose. Pressing the mouse button or an assigned hotkey should achieve the same results every time. If they don't,it either means that mouse clicks don't really always activate notifications, or that mouse keys don't accurate replace physical mouse clicks.
I recently read that I could issue a mouse click anywhere on a given notification in order to expand and activate it. So, I've tried moving the mouse pointer via keyboard so incrementally that I thought my fingers would fall off between voiced elements, all to no avail, because clicking any and every which way turned out not to be right.


Orlando

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