Date   

Re: Selecting Files

Gene
 

It’s the wrong command. In a list, when you are selecting using shift, just use shift.

Gene

----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Gray
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2021 4:44 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Selecting Files



Hello:



When I use ctrl+shft+downarrow or ctrl+shft+downarrow to select one or more files, nothing is selected. I have tried changing scroll lock, testing my keyboard under Windows 10 and other MS suggestions but to no avail. Any thoughts here?



Many thanks.



Chris


Re: Selecting Files

benmoxey@...
 

Hi everyone

 

Hold the Shift and use your arrows to select files that are next to each other.

 

If you only want some of the files in a folder, hold Control and use your arrows to move to those files. Keep the Control held down and use Space to select or unselect. Only release the Control when you are done and are ready to copy, cut etc. If you release Control and press one of the arrows, you will lose the selection and will need to start over.

 

Cheers

 

Ben

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sascha Cowley via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, 7 January 2021 10:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Selecting Files

 

Ctrl+↓ moves the focus without affecting the highlight. Do you mean Shift+↓, or am I missing something?


Re: Strategies for navigating YouTube comments using NVDA?

Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...>
 

Thanks for all the great ideas, folks. Turns out I’m already doing a combination of most of these things but did pick up a few tips and tricks. Tony, that plug-in sounds awesome! I will definitely grab that and see if it helps. I found that if I press control end to go to the very bottom of the page and then press shift 2 a couple of times I will find the comments section pretty consistently since it is under a level two heading. Of the two issues I originally brought up, I’d say traversing between the comments is the most annoying. Even if you press G to go to the profile image of each user, there are still numerous elements you have to move pass to get to the actual text of the comment. Thanks again and keep the ideas coming. I’ve already submitted The feedback to Google as I mentioned so hopefully that will help. In the scheme of things I know this isn’t like a critical issue or anything, but I am a big fan of reading and interacting with comments on topics that interest me so it would be nice if that could be made a little easier. :)

On Dec 31, 2020, at 6:08 PM, Sascha Cowley via groups.io <sascha.camille@...> wrote:

Comments are only loaded when you scroll down the page past the video description. Usually, I just rapidly scroll down the page, wait a couple of seconds, then the comments section will be there.
As for navigating comments, I typically use [e] to navigate to the edit field to add your own comment, then use [g] to navigate to each comment, as each begins with a profile picture.


Re: Selecting Files

Ann Byrne
 

When you use ctrl-down arrow, you press spacebar on any file you want to select. If the files are contiguous you can use shift down arrow, but not I think ctrl-shift down arrow.

At 04:49 PM 1/6/2021, you wrote:

Chris,

I usually press control with down arrow to select files contiguously. I'm not familiar with adding the shift key to perform this task, at least if we're talking about File Explorer.



David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christopher Gray
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 5:45 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Selecting Files



Hello:



When I use ctrl+shft+downarrow or ctrl+shft+downarrow to select one or more files, nothing is selected. I have tried changing scroll lock, testing my keyboard under Windows 10 and other MS suggestions but to no avail. Any thoughts here?



Many thanks.



Chris






Re: Selecting Files

Sascha Cowley
 

Ctrl+↓ moves the focus without affecting the highlight. Do you mean Shift+↓, or am I missing something?


Re: using NVDA with Bluetooth

Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...>
 

Sorry, I should have been clearer. The AirPods connect via Bluetooth. They connect fine, it’s just that slight delay and truncating of the first part of NVDA speech that makes them unusable for me. Would love if this has been fixed somehow. Thanks.

On Jan 6, 2021, at 2:57 PM, Luke Robinett via groups.io <blindgroupsluke=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hey Bob and others,
I’ve tried several times in the recent past to use my Apple AirPods with my PC and NVDA but it never works very well. There’s a bit of lag and the first bit of whatever NVDA speaks gets chopped off. Has this since been fixed, either in windows or NVDA?

On Jan 1, 2021, at 8:58 PM, Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@gmail.com> wrote:

Ah, not sure how I missed this until this morning, but just tried it
and it works brilliantly! Now all I have to decide is which output to
stream to the speaker, Zara or NVDA. I think this is going to work
though. Now all I need is a test server to put into Alta Cast so I can
try this out.

On 12/31/20, Jackie <abletec@gmail.com> wrote:
Bob, please try going to your synthesizer settings (control+NVDA+s),
select your synthesizer, & set your desired audio output device there.

On 12/31/20, Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,
It was a post on this list that inspired me to try using NVDA with my
Bluetooth speaker, and to my surprise, it actually worked. My question
is, can I somehow tell NVDA and only NVDA to output to the Bluetooth
speaker, and have everything else still come through the computer
speakers?
Bob






--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com












Re: Selecting Files

Sascha Cowley
 

You should not need to use Ctrl while doing this; Shift + ↓ will extend a continuous selection. Using Ctrl + Shift + ↓ seems to continue a non-continuous selection from the last selected item (IE the one nearest above where you are in the list). With that in mind, are you trying to use Ctrl+Shift+↓ in a list view where nothing is selected? If so, try pressing Space on the item you want to be the first selected item, then using Ctrl+Shift+↓.


Re: using NVDA with Bluetooth

Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...>
 

Hey Bob and others,
I’ve tried several times in the recent past to use my Apple AirPods with my PC and NVDA but it never works very well. There’s a bit of lag and the first bit of whatever NVDA speaks gets chopped off. Has this since been fixed, either in windows or NVDA?

On Jan 1, 2021, at 8:58 PM, Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@gmail.com> wrote:

Ah, not sure how I missed this until this morning, but just tried it
and it works brilliantly! Now all I have to decide is which output to
stream to the speaker, Zara or NVDA. I think this is going to work
though. Now all I need is a test server to put into Alta Cast so I can
try this out.

On 12/31/20, Jackie <abletec@gmail.com> wrote:
Bob, please try going to your synthesizer settings (control+NVDA+s),
select your synthesizer, & set your desired audio output device there.

On 12/31/20, Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,
It was a post on this list that inspired me to try using NVDA with my
Bluetooth speaker, and to my surprise, it actually worked. My question
is, can I somehow tell NVDA and only NVDA to output to the Bluetooth
speaker, and have everything else still come through the computer
speakers?
Bob






--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com









Re: Selecting Files

David Goldfield
 

Chris,

I usually press control with down arrow to select files contiguously. I’m not familiar with adding the shift key to perform this task, at least if we’re talking about File Explorer.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christopher Gray
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 5:45 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Selecting Files

 

Hello:

 

When I use ctrl+shft+downarrow or ctrl+shft+downarrow to select one or more files, nothing is selected.  I have tried changing scroll lock, testing my keyboard under Windows 10 and other MS suggestions but to no avail.  Any thoughts here?

 

Many thanks.

 

Chris

 

 


Selecting Files

Christopher Gray
 

Hello:

 

When I use ctrl+shft+downarrow or ctrl+shft+downarrow to select one or more files, nothing is selected.  I have tried changing scroll lock, testing my keyboard under Windows 10 and other MS suggestions but to no avail.  Any thoughts here?

 

Many thanks.

 

Chris

 

 


Re: Add-on version 21.01 released: Enhanced Touch Gestures, Resource Monitor, StationPlaylist, Windows 10 App Essentials #addonrelease

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


You must have the following add on installed into nvda called add on updater which can be found at https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/addonUpdater.en.html <https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/addonUpdater.en.html>

After it has been installed into nvda it will then look for compatible add ons and look for a newer version of that add on.


I think you can also force it to look for updated add ons by going to tools then check for check for add on updates then follow directions.


there are some I guess call third party add ons which will not work with it until a add on author makes it compatible with the add on updater.

I mean by this they may come off other websites.

So they will not be updated.


Gene nz

On 6/01/2021 10:41 pm, aad leeflang wrote:
hello joseph,

i am not so familiar with nvda but i use the station playlist ad-on.
i understand that i can jupdate the ad-on to use it with station playlist 5.30.
you wrote that you can update add-ons by using the updater.
i have been looking at the add-ons in my list but there is no update add-on button there.
can you please tell me how i can update them?

many thanks,
aad leeflang




Re: Add-on version 21.01 released: Enhanced Touch Gestures, Resource Monitor, StationPlaylist, Windows 10 App Essentials #addonrelease

 

Hello,

         I'm not Joseph, but what he's saying is that all add-ons will be checked to see if they are at their latest versions, and you'll be alerted that new updates are available if they are not, if you install the Add-On Updater Add-On.

         It even checks whether it is up to date, and will tell you when a newer version of itself becomes available.  I believe that this functionality will eventually be integrated into the NVDA core code, but until then the easiest way to have something monitor your collection of Add-Ons to make sure you have the latest is to use Add-On Updater.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Add-on version 21.01 released: Enhanced Touch Gestures, Resource Monitor, StationPlaylist, Windows 10 App Essentials #addonrelease

aad leeflang <aad@...>
 

hello joseph,

i am not so familiar with nvda but i use the station playlist ad-on.
i understand that i can jupdate the ad-on to use it with station playlist 5.30.
you wrote that you can update add-ons by using the updater.
i have been looking at the add-ons in my list but there is no update add-on button there.
can you please tell me how i can update them?

many thanks,
aad leeflang


Add-on version 21.01 released: Enhanced Touch Gestures, Resource Monitor, StationPlaylist, Windows 10 App Essentials #addonrelease

 

Hello everyone,

Four add-ons were updated to version 21.01:

  • Enhanced Touch Gestures: dedicated touch support toggle command was removed from the add-on as NVDA provides one. As a result, NVDA 2020.3 or later is required, and Enhanced Touch Gestures settings panel is hereby removed. For Windows 10 Version 1709 (Fall Creators Update/build 16299) users, performing a four finger flick left from a text field will summon dictation feature (Windows+H).
  • Resource Monitor: Windows version information is shortened. On Windows 8.x, Windows version announcement will now include build.revision information similar to the one Windows 10 users are accustomed to.
  • StationPlaylist: version 21.01 requires NVDA 2020.3 ion order to take advantage of recent GUI feature changes from NVDA, and SPL Studio 5.30 or later is required. Also, version 20.09.5-LTS (long-term support) version is also available for Studio 5.20 users, and I expect it will be the second to last 20.09.x release.
  • Windows 10 App Essentials: version 21.01 is the last version to support Windows 10 Version 1909 (November 2019 Update/build 18363), with the next stable version requiring Version 2004 (May 2020 Update/build 19041) or later. It also restores support for recent Mail and Calendar app and resolves history and memory list item announcements in Calculator. Also, from 21.01, NVDA 2020.3 or later is required.

 

As always, the new add-on updates can be retrieved via Add-on Updater or from community add-ons website.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Betsy Grenevitch
 

I really do not have time to join a chat like that. I already have difficulty staying up with my email some days as it is so will just see if what I learn from the course I have begun today will give me what I need. Thanks for the offer, though.


On 1/5/2021 6:59 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 02:51 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:
Brian, I would love to have that type of training. I would need the time to be able to write down specific notes and steps to follow so I could relate to them later as they will not be remembered
-
Then I would really, really encourage you to engage in the Chat Subgroup where you can engage in Q&A to your heart's content, and ask at your own pace.

My only suggestion is that you give specific requests, e.g., Can someone walk me through ordering an item on Amazon?, rather than something like, "Can someone teach me how to shop online?"   The second question is just too broad to be answered, as sites vary wildly as to the exact details of their interfaces, while single sites like Amazon tend to be as close to 100% consistent as they can be, regardless of what you're ordering.

Were this to be an accurate example, and the thing you want to order is not private in nature, even stating what that is can be really helpful for anyone who wants to assist.  You can give far more exact descriptions of what the person who's asking will actually encounter.

It has been my experience that once someone has confidence on how to do a defined thing in a specific venue, they can generalize to a related thing in that specific venue relatively easily.  And it's far easier to teach or guide when you as the teacher or guide know what the destination is.

Here are the addresses for the NVDA Chat Subgroup, which allows discussion of anything within the bounds of civil discourse, not just NVDA:

To join:  chat+subscribe@nvda.groups.io

To post:  chat@nvda.groups.io

To unsubscribe:  chat+unsubscribe@nvda.groups.io

To receive a message containing the group description, and a list of these commands:  chat+help@nvda.groups.io

To stop receiving messages via email (you may still read messages on the Web):  chat+nomail@nvda.groups.io

This can also be used to put a vacation stop on group messages, then use one of the addresses below to resume delivery in the format of your choice.

To receive each group messages individually:  chat+single@nvda.groups.io

This is the default delivery unless you send a message to one of the addresses that follows.

To receive group messages in an HTML formatted digest:  chat+fulldigest@nvda.groups.io

To receive group messages in a plain text digest:  chat+digest@nvda.groups.io

To receive a daily summary instead of individual messages:  chat+summary@nvda.groups.io

To receive only special messages:  chat+special@nvda.groups.io

To contact the group owner(s):  chat+owner@nvda.groups.io 
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 

--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

 

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 02:51 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:
Brian, I would love to have that type of training. I would need the time to be able to write down specific notes and steps to follow so I could relate to them later as they will not be remembered
-
Then I would really, really encourage you to engage in the Chat Subgroup where you can engage in Q&A to your heart's content, and ask at your own pace.

My only suggestion is that you give specific requests, e.g., Can someone walk me through ordering an item on Amazon?, rather than something like, "Can someone teach me how to shop online?"   The second question is just too broad to be answered, as sites vary wildly as to the exact details of their interfaces, while single sites like Amazon tend to be as close to 100% consistent as they can be, regardless of what you're ordering.

Were this to be an accurate example, and the thing you want to order is not private in nature, even stating what that is can be really helpful for anyone who wants to assist.  You can give far more exact descriptions of what the person who's asking will actually encounter.

It has been my experience that once someone has confidence on how to do a defined thing in a specific venue, they can generalize to a related thing in that specific venue relatively easily.  And it's far easier to teach or guide when you as the teacher or guide know what the destination is.

Here are the addresses for the NVDA Chat Subgroup, which allows discussion of anything within the bounds of civil discourse, not just NVDA:

To join:  chat+subscribe@nvda.groups.io

To post:  chat@nvda.groups.io

To unsubscribe:  chat+unsubscribe@nvda.groups.io

To receive a message containing the group description, and a list of these commands:  chat+help@nvda.groups.io

To stop receiving messages via email (you may still read messages on the Web):  chat+nomail@nvda.groups.io

This can also be used to put a vacation stop on group messages, then use one of the addresses below to resume delivery in the format of your choice.

To receive each group messages individually:  chat+single@nvda.groups.io

This is the default delivery unless you send a message to one of the addresses that follows.

To receive group messages in an HTML formatted digest:  chat+fulldigest@nvda.groups.io

To receive group messages in a plain text digest:  chat+digest@nvda.groups.io

To receive a daily summary instead of individual messages:  chat+summary@nvda.groups.io

To receive only special messages:  chat+special@nvda.groups.io

To contact the group owner(s):  chat+owner@nvda.groups.io 
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

 

Thats a hard question.

What is your opinion of access in general?

Mine is that the program in question is fully usable, with readable documentation at minimal in a structured accessible pdf or failing that html with the right headings.

Daisy would be nice but for all practical purposes a standard html document is what I'd go for any day or text, word, etc whatever.

The program must have keyboard shortcuts, settings that are easy to understand, menus or heck I guess ribbons that are easy to understand though I am a menu kind a guy.

If its a universal app, its web interface should be easy to navigate, with buttons which are labeled and alt text in the right places.

Self voicing is an option but having the ability to run something like tolque and run sapi and screen reader support would be nice.

Having actual reader access with an addon like nvda or jaws I guess would be nice, but if it uses standard controls then its going to work.

No customised styles, fonts or extras would be nice but again if its labeled then fine.

If it had the same interface no matter what system or configuration is also a pluss.

I don't need a dumbed down interface for the blind, unless there is a simple and advanced mode for various things and I can easily switch.

Most of this is simple stuff.

Look at ccleaner for example.

Button labeling and checkboxes were the simple thing, settings with labeled controls deciding what you chose, shortcut keys without conflicts.

An easy to understand system.

Would I have liked a dumbed down interface which had spaciffic things for the blind, probably not.

With accessibility you really want something to be accessible or rather usable to every user.

That means you shouldn't need nvda addons or jaws scripts to work with it.

You shouldn't need spaciffic libraries to work with it and screen reader/sapi support.

You shouldn't need dumbed down interfaces.

As long as its designed right then it should all just work.

Of course a lot of stuff uses coding engines and generators and those may or may not do everything or put things in you are not aware of.

This aint a perfect world though, so as long as its got standard controles and its all labeled and easy to configure and use thats about what I'd expect.

Customised shortcuts and sound notifications especially if there is a custom soundscheme and the ability to add extra sound schemes where appropriate is also good.

Another thing is that once you have an interface, try to keep it the same or at least keep every new interface if it needs extras the same standard as the old one.

CCleaner was originally fully accessible.

Then it got changed, then it got put back.

There are a few plusses.

Its not a given but right now anything universal will use a web component, so if the web bits work generally the rest will work enough to be used.

If its chromeum based there is a chance it will work to.

Of course you will want to adjust things but still.

I have not seen any programs actually holding your hand as such lately.

On 6/01/2021 10:57 am, Jaffar Sidek wrote:
Hi.  I think, really, that the question that should be asked is:

to what point does the need for accessibility borders onto the need to be spoilt and spoon fed, isn't it?  Cheers!

On 6/1/2021 2:37 am, tim wrote:
So you mean like how Microsoft is doing with VS code?
Guess the program-l list has to give up its Microsoft developers on the list to. After all Microsoft only let them join to see how the blind use there product.


On 1/4/2021 3:49 PM, Gene wrote:
It isn't our own language.  Some sighted people use the keyboard.  However, in this era, when everything is defined as a right, requiring manufacturers to produce instructions specifically for blind people is not something I would advocate.  Blind people shouldn't expect to have everything done for such a small group.  You might be able to argue that manuals should have versions written for blind people since in the sighted versions, they use pictures and diagrams and icons, but beyond a certain point, blind people need to take responsibility for what they can do and know.

I have no objection to tutorials being produced to teach blind people how to use programs using terminology and descriptions generally used by blind people, but at what point does this right end?

Should a designer of shareware or freeware be required to have instructions written for blind people if his program is used by a lot of blind people? Are you advocating that every help topic regarding Windows and Microsoft Office have a blindness version?

If a specialized piece of software has one-hundred blind users in America, should the developer be required to have instructions using the keyboard for such a small user base even if a lot more sighted people use it?

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Orlando Enrique Fiol via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 1:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read

At 12:45 PM 1/4/2021, Brian Vogel wrote:
The reason I say that is you will, eventually, be given instructions
by a kindly but clueless sighted person who says, "Click on the
paperclip button," because that's what they see and they know,
implicitly, what it does.  It's really handy to have had someone
who's instructing you give you the sighted/announced pairs just
because you're likely to be confronted with only the former at some point.
But I do agree that, particularly if the audience is a blind one, I'd
likely reverse the ordering of the twins, giving the announced name
(or something awfully close to it, I never remember them all,
perfectly) first with the icon description afterward.
Windows is completely translated into dozens of
languages. When Chinese or Japanese speakers do
tech support for their compatriots, they don't
use English terms for Windows elements because
those elements have all been translated into
their languages. While Hindi or Hebrew speakers
understand that they must know English in order
to talk about Windows with non-Indians or
Israelis, they aren't burdened with the task of
learning English just to use Windows.
This is a good analogy because we as blind people
have allowed ourselves be bamboozled out of
rights that all non-English speakers have. Every
software manufacturer knows that if they don't
produce translated versions, they won't sell
product to non-English speakers. Yet, no software
manufacture--large or small--has been made to
feel similar pressure about producing (for lack
of a better word) blind versions or translations.
This is because non-English speakers petition
software manufacturers to produce translated
versions. Those who know English even offer to do
these translations for free. Whereas, we have
people among us insisting that our language is
provincial, inferior and the primary reason we
keep getting "left behind". Sighted Spanish and Portuguese speakers

don't get "left behind" for being unable to use
Windows in English. Microsoft has never
arrogantly maintained that they must learn
English in order to use Windows because that
position would constitute economic suicide. Only
us blind people have been ingrained with such
self-loathing that we would ridiculously insist,
when communicating with each other, to use
exclusively sighted terms such as points, clicks
and icons, when we have a perfectly functional
keyboard-oriented language of our own.
Orlando Enrique Fiol















Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

 

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 02:43 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:
Please realize when you have expectations for your group members to be able to perform, that for some us, it may not always be possible because of things like this.
-
You know, I don't think I have ever said, ever, anything that would be counter to this.  There are exception cases to "the typical" all the time.

I can't win here.  If I try to cover all the bases it becomes hideously long, hard to follow, and the central points disappear.  When I do what I think appropriate, and that is to address "the general case," many seem to think it's an edict that must be applied to everyone, equally, without any consideration of other factors.  It isn't.

Far too often my own writing is harder to follow than it might be because I'm trying to cover far too many bases.  If anything, I am trying to make an effort to avoid a litany of exceptions and caveats, which I definitely recognize, and focus on the general case.  Any one of us can play the, "But what if?," game such that it never ends.

And I hasten to say here, Betsy, that all of the above is in no way aimed at you, personally, but is triggered by your observation.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Jaffar Sidek <jaffar.sidek10@...>
 

Hi.  I think, really, that the question that should be asked is:

to what point does the need for accessibility borders onto the need to be spoilt and spoon fed, isn't it?  Cheers!

On 6/1/2021 2:37 am, tim wrote:
So you mean like how Microsoft is doing with VS code?
Guess the program-l list has to give up its Microsoft developers on the list to. After all Microsoft only let them join to see how the blind use there product.


On 1/4/2021 3:49 PM, Gene wrote:
It isn't our own language.  Some sighted people use the keyboard.  However, in this era, when everything is defined as a right, requiring manufacturers to produce instructions specifically for blind people is not something I would advocate.  Blind people shouldn't expect to have everything done for such a small group.  You might be able to argue that manuals should have versions written for blind people since in the sighted versions, they use pictures and diagrams and icons, but beyond a certain point, blind people need to take responsibility for what they can do and know.

I have no objection to tutorials being produced to teach blind people how to use programs using terminology and descriptions generally used by blind people, but at what point does this right end?

Should a designer of shareware or freeware be required to have instructions written for blind people if his program is used by a lot of blind people? Are you advocating that every help topic regarding Windows and Microsoft Office have a blindness version?

If a specialized piece of software has one-hundred blind users in America, should the developer be required to have instructions using the keyboard for such a small user base even if a lot more sighted people use it?

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Orlando Enrique Fiol via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 1:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read

At 12:45 PM 1/4/2021, Brian Vogel wrote:
The reason I say that is you will, eventually, be given instructions
by a kindly but clueless sighted person who says, "Click on the
paperclip button," because that's what they see and they know,
implicitly, what it does.  It's really handy to have had someone
who's instructing you give you the sighted/announced pairs just
because you're likely to be confronted with only the former at some point.
But I do agree that, particularly if the audience is a blind one, I'd
likely reverse the ordering of the twins, giving the announced name
(or something awfully close to it, I never remember them all,
perfectly) first with the icon description afterward.
Windows is completely translated into dozens of
languages. When Chinese or Japanese speakers do
tech support for their compatriots, they don't
use English terms for Windows elements because
those elements have all been translated into
their languages. While Hindi or Hebrew speakers
understand that they must know English in order
to talk about Windows with non-Indians or
Israelis, they aren't burdened with the task of
learning English just to use Windows.
This is a good analogy because we as blind people
have allowed ourselves be bamboozled out of
rights that all non-English speakers have. Every
software manufacturer knows that if they don't
produce translated versions, they won't sell
product to non-English speakers. Yet, no software
manufacture--large or small--has been made to
feel similar pressure about producing (for lack
of a better word) blind versions or translations.
This is because non-English speakers petition
software manufacturers to produce translated
versions. Those who know English even offer to do
these translations for free. Whereas, we have
people among us insisting that our language is
provincial, inferior and the primary reason we
keep getting "left behind". Sighted Spanish and Portuguese speakers

don't get "left behind" for being unable to use
Windows in English. Microsoft has never
arrogantly maintained that they must learn
English in order to use Windows because that
position would constitute economic suicide. Only
us blind people have been ingrained with such
self-loathing that we would ridiculously insist,
when communicating with each other, to use
exclusively sighted terms such as points, clicks
and icons, when we have a perfectly functional
keyboard-oriented language of our own.
Orlando Enrique Fiol












Re: problems using NVDA with my new laptop

Gene
 

That may have been true in the past but it isn't now. numpad commands work in either setting.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Grossoehme
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2021 12:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problems using NVDA with my new laptop



Good Day: I have seen this problem before. It's possible that the NVDA settings in keyboard settings is set to laptop. If so, none of the numpad keys for NVDA will work. She will need to go into NVDA and change that to desktop. In order to answer this, she would need to check and see if any of the numpad key commands work in NVDA..

Dave




On 12/29/2020 7:23 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:


Gene, I have used numpad very little until getting this laptop. I assume you mean just pushing the numpad 7 by itself when nomlock is off, right? If that is the case it does not do anything if it can be used in an email as that is where I tried it. When I push any of those three numbers it just says clipboard. If you would like for me to write you privately, please let me know.







On 12/29/2020 7:52 PM, Gene wrote:


it might help clarify things if we knew the answer to the following question:

When you use numpad commands by themselves, do they work correctly? In other words, does numpad 8 read the current line of the object you are on? Does numpad 7 move to the previous line and numpad 9 move to the next line?





I also did a bit of experimentation and if a current or near current version of NVDA is being used, it doesn't matter, for what we are discussing, if laptop or desktop mode is being used. it may for other commands, but the numpad review commands such as shift 7, 8, and 9, work in both modes. Before continuing with any experimentation, do the following to make completely sure you are working in the correct screen-review mode:

Issue the command numpad insert numpad 1 until you hear no previous review mode. If you changed review modes at some point, you may well have unexpected results.





Gene


On 12/29/2020 6:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 06:40 PM, Nevzat Adil wrote:
Since you are using a laptop NVDA should be on laptop keyboard layout.-
I'm sorry, but that's incorrect and, in actuality, very seldom the case or necessary. If you have a laptop that has a number pad as part of its built in keyboard NVDA installs using desktop keyboard layout because it can since all the keys are there.

I only have folks use laptop layout if they are already familiar with it and prefer it, or if they have a laptop that does not have a number pad as part of its built in keyboard. That is the minority of laptops produced today.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:] Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next. We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner




--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876

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