Date   

Re: Double Tone

 

Joseph, I wander in that case if we should just wrip out nvda logging entirely and use a universal one, either cloud based, or some third party one established.

I never used crash heroe, but maybe we need to use something like that or some other way to handle things.



On 10/01/2021 2:39 pm, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

This will involve patching log handler module, specifically various log handler classes (NVDA uses Python’s logging facility for log output). Another thing to consider is that some users may set log level to “disabled”, in which only a brief startup message will be recorded. In general, patching NVDA’s built-in modules and functions by replacing a class or a function is discouraged as it can introduce headaches (compatibility issues among others; trust me, I went through it painfully recently with Windows 10 App Essentials add-on).

There used to be an add-on named Crash Hero that will be triggered automatically when NVDA restarts after a crash. This add-on will record crash information such as old log file (if it exists). This add-on did not survive Python 3 transition (speaking of NVDA’s logging facility, it took days to move that from 2 to 3 two years ago).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021 4:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Double Tone

 

As a former programmer, I hesitate to even suggest the following, as it is likely far, far more complicated than the previous descriptions lead me to believe it might be.

But if NVDA is detecting that an error has occurred, and what would be sent to the NVDA developers (or add-on developers), and all of that content comes from the log file working backward from current logged error to the last one to extract what's needed, could this not be automated as a function (or, perhaps) add-on for the beta itself?

Based on what's been described, which I understand may not be comprehensive, grabbing that traceback should be relatively straightforward programatically and would result in far more data for developers than relying on manual reporting would.

[Now, let the explanations about why the above is, in actuality, impractical, begin.  It just can't be this straightforward or someone would have done it.]
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Double Tone

 

Hi,

This will involve patching log handler module, specifically various log handler classes (NVDA uses Python’s logging facility for log output). Another thing to consider is that some users may set log level to “disabled”, in which only a brief startup message will be recorded. In general, patching NVDA’s built-in modules and functions by replacing a class or a function is discouraged as it can introduce headaches (compatibility issues among others; trust me, I went through it painfully recently with Windows 10 App Essentials add-on).

There used to be an add-on named Crash Hero that will be triggered automatically when NVDA restarts after a crash. This add-on will record crash information such as old log file (if it exists). This add-on did not survive Python 3 transition (speaking of NVDA’s logging facility, it took days to move that from 2 to 3 two years ago).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021 4:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Double Tone

 

As a former programmer, I hesitate to even suggest the following, as it is likely far, far more complicated than the previous descriptions lead me to believe it might be.

But if NVDA is detecting that an error has occurred, and what would be sent to the NVDA developers (or add-on developers), and all of that content comes from the log file working backward from current logged error to the last one to extract what's needed, could this not be automated as a function (or, perhaps) add-on for the beta itself?

Based on what's been described, which I understand may not be comprehensive, grabbing that traceback should be relatively straightforward programatically and would result in far more data for developers than relying on manual reporting would.

[Now, let the explanations about why the above is, in actuality, impractical, begin.  It just can't be this straightforward or someone would have done it.]
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Double Tone

Andrea Sherry
 

Thank you.

On 10/01/2021 10:25 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
You've actually answered your own question, kinda, sorta.  The only time I have had those double-tones is when I'm running a beta version, once something goes to the release candidate or actual release version those disappear.

I have to believe this is an intentional design element so that one knows that a beta is in use.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Double Tone

Andrea Sherry
 

That's the one.

What is it?

On 10/01/2021 10:25 am, Chris Smart wrote:
You mean the descending tritone, a piano sound that plays 5th octave C then 4th octave F-sharp?



On 2021-01-09 6:15 p.m., Andrea Sherry wrote:
What is this double tone thingy which has appeared on my system since the introduction of the betas?

Andrea








Re: OCR: Interacting with items from recognized UI

Sascha Cowley
 

You can use normal mouse control functions in NVDA to do this. See section 5.7. Navigating with the Mouse of the NVDA user guide.


OCR: Interacting with items from recognized UI

Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...>
 

Hi,

 

For inaccessible UIs I’ll often run NVDA OCR on the UI and then press enter or space bar on the UI controls I find in the recognized text such as tabs, menus and buttons. I find this only works in some programs and other times seems to be ignored. I believe the issue in some cases is that some UIs only respond when an actual mouse is clicked on a control. Is there a way to have the mouse cursor move to the UI element corresponding with its label in the OCR viewer and produce a click on that element? If not, is this something I could submit on GitHub as a feature request? It would make the already helpful OCR feature even more useful.

 

Thanks,

Luke

 


Re: control click with nvda?

 

Might I ask several questions:

1.  What, precisely, are you actually attempting to do with CTRL+Click in this instance?

2.  Are you using a desktop?  If so, have you ever considered using a "hobbled mouse" that would allow you to use its buttons while eliminating the pointer movement?

3.  Are you using a laptop, where you likely have direct access to left click already, and could use CTRL+LeftClick without emulation?

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Double Tone

 

As a former programmer, I hesitate to even suggest the following, as it is likely far, far more complicated than the previous descriptions lead me to believe it might be.

But if NVDA is detecting that an error has occurred, and what would be sent to the NVDA developers (or add-on developers), and all of that content comes from the log file working backward from current logged error to the last one to extract what's needed, could this not be automated as a function (or, perhaps) add-on for the beta itself?

Based on what's been described, which I understand may not be comprehensive, grabbing that traceback should be relatively straightforward programatically and would result in far more data for developers than relying on manual reporting would.

[Now, let the explanations about why the above is, in actuality, impractical, begin.  It just can't be this straightforward or someone would have done it.]
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Double Tone

 

Hi,

Typical errors can include, but are not limited to:

  • Python specific errors such as inability to load a module, syntax errors with either NVDA or an add-on, errors associated with data structures such as key/index/value error exceptions, resource error such as inability to open a URL.
  • Errors from external modules, either wxWidgets/wxPython or something else.
  • Recently, garbage handler messages while managing resources.

When an error tone is heard, as Tyler noted, pressing NVDA+F1 will open the log viewer, from where you can scroll up to read the last error associated with the tone (technically a traceback). We (developers) need the complete traceback from the last error to determine what’s going on so we can either resolve it from NVDA side or reported to add-on authors (in case of my add-ons, I can guarantee a fix in minutes once I identify a possible cause and test a fix live; I use alpha builds for this purpose, and I try my best to make my add-ons error-free as much as possible before NVDA betas are released).

Cheers,

joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021 3:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Double Tone

 

I really wish I knew "what sort of error."  Ninety-nine times out of one hundred I can see absolutely no difference from typical behavior, so it's unclear what's been identified as being off.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Double Tone

 

I really wish I knew "what sort of error."  Ninety-nine times out of one hundred I can see absolutely no difference from typical behavior, so it's unclear what's been identified as being off.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Double Tone

 

Hi,

Specifically, to help you report bugs to developers easily, as these tones indicate some sort of error.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Double Tone

 

You've actually answered your own question, kinda, sorta.  The only time I have had those double-tones is when I'm running a beta version, once something goes to the release candidate or actual release version those disappear.

I have to believe this is an intentional design element so that one knows that a beta is in use.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Double Tone

Gene
 

The tones indicate an error of some sort. The tones are enabled on betas so users are aware of when errors occur. They are disabled in production releases. Most of the time, such program errors don't affect the functioning of the program.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2021 5:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Double Tone

You've actually answered your own question, kinda, sorta. The only time I have had those double-tones is when I'm running a beta version, once something goes to the release candidate or actual release version those disappear.

I have to believe this is an intentional design element so that one knows that a beta is in use.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

~ Brian Vogel


Re: Double Tone

Tyler Spivey
 

That's the error tone. If you look in the log viewer after it plays, you'll see what happened.

On 1/9/2021 3:25 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
You've actually answered your own question, kinda, sorta.  The only time I have had those double-tones is when I'm running a beta version, once something goes to the release candidate or actual release version those disappear.
I have to believe this is an intentional design element so that one knows that a beta is in use.
--
Brian -Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042
The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.
       ~ Brian Vogel


Re: Double Tone

 

You've actually answered your own question, kinda, sorta.  The only time I have had those double-tones is when I'm running a beta version, once something goes to the release candidate or actual release version those disappear.

I have to believe this is an intentional design element so that one knows that a beta is in use.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Double Tone

Chris Smart
 

You mean the descending tritone, a piano sound that plays 5th octave C then 4th octave F-sharp?

On 2021-01-09 6:15 p.m., Andrea Sherry wrote:
What is this double tone thingy which has appeared on my system since the introduction of the betas?

Andrea





Double Tone

Andrea Sherry
 

What is this double tone thingy which has appeared on my system since the introduction of the betas?

Andrea


control click with nvda?

mslion
 

Good day all,
How can I control mouse click with nvda? I this particular case I have
to control left click. How is this possible with hotkeys?

With kind regards,
Mitchel Snel


Re: Tony's add-ons: new and updated

Chris Smart
 

Hi Tony.


Thanks for these!


from a relatively new NVDA user.


Chris


Tony's add-ons: new and updated

Tony Malykh
 

Hello all,

This is Tony, author of many NVDA add-ons. During holidays I updated many of my add-ons, and wrote two new add-ons, so I would like to share them with you guys. This is a long email, so please feel free to navigate by headings!

Please note that links on the official website have not been updated, as it seems that nobody has access to that website anymore. Therefore, please download directly from Github, download links included below.

 

New add-ons:

WordNav

It takes word navigation to the next level in NVDA. It standardizes what exactly does word mean, e.g. does it include punctuation before and after, moreover, it offers various definitions of word, some of which might be useful for software developers, for example when they are working with camelCaseIdentifiers. It redefines Control+Left/Right keystrokes, as well as it adds optional Control+Windows+Left/Right keystrokes. Configuration panel included!

·       Github: https://github.com/mltony/nvda-word-nav/

·       Download: https://github.com/mltony/nvda-word-nav/releases/download/v1.2/wordNav-1.2.nvda-addon

 

Console toolkit

This is a collection of tools for heavy console users. Among its features are:

·       More realtime speaking of console output

·       * Beep on update

·       Control+V shortcut now works in ssh connections

·       Editing of current prompt in accessible window

·       Capturing command output, including multi-page, and displaying it in an accessible window

 

Please note, it supports the default Windows console, a.k.a. command prompt, as well as windows PowerShell.

·       Github: https://github.com/mltony/nvda-console-toolkit/

·       Download: https://github.com/mltony/nvda-console-toolkit/releases/download/v0.2dev/consoleToolkit-0.2dev.nvda-addon

 

Updates

SentenceNav

This add-on allows to read text sentence by sentence using Alt+Up/Down keystroke. I managed to improve its performance a lot, now it reads sentences much faster, especially in large paragraphs. I also added experimental support for Microsoft Word and WordPad – before this version built-in NVDA logic applied to sentence navigation in these programs, and many users have complained about that. Also, a number of bugfixes. Also I wrote extensive documentation, since sentence finding code has become so complicated, even I myself is having a hard time reading my own code after a couple of years since first release 😊

·       Github: https://github.com/mltony/nvda-sentence-nav/

·       Download: https://github.com/mltony/nvda-sentence-nav/releases/download/v2.9/SentenceNav-2.9.nvda-addon

BrowserNav

BrowserNav contains a set of improvements to browse mode in NVDA. Besides a number of bugfixes, this new version includes command to jump to next text written in different style (bound to tilde, that weird key right above Tab), and a command to scroll down to reveal all the hidden content, bound to backslash. That last command might be useful for websites, that load content dynamically. This includes Youtube, that doesn’t load the entire page and expects users to scroll down to reveal certain elements, and also so called infinite scroll webpages, such as Amazon and Facebook.

·       Github: https://github.com/mltony/nvda-browser-nav/

·       Download: https://github.com/mltony/nvda-browser-nav/releases/download/v1.12/browsernav-1.12.nvda-addon

Tony’s enhancements

This add-on is an incubator for my experimental ideas, yet I believe many of them might be quite handy for many users. In particular, this time WordNav and Console toolkit mentioned above have graduated from this incubator. 😊 Among new features that I added are QuickSearch command, that allows to quickly find predefined text or regular expression in text files. I personally find it useful for editing markdown, because you can set the regular expression to search for next/previous heading, and also for programming. Another new feature allows to set system priority for NVDA process – this might improve responsiveness of NVDA, especially when CPU load is high.

·       Github: https://github.com/mltony/nvda-tonys-enhancements/

·       Download: https://github.com/mltony/nvda-tonys-enhancements/releases/download/v1.8/tonysEnhancements-1.8.nvda-addon

Other

NVDA Symbols

This is not an add-on, but rather a comprehensive (more or less) table of unicode characters with their proper English names. In particular, it includes math symbols (the ones that are not defined in NVDA), Greek letters, technical symbols, various arrows, etc. If you’re Greek, you would probably want to exclude Greek letters from this dictionary. If you speak CJK languages, you would probably want to exclude fixed-width punctuation page from that dictionary. This table would need to be added manually to your symbols.dic file in NVDA user config directory.

·       Github: https://github.com/mltony/nvda-symbols/

·       Download: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mltony/nvda-symbols/main/final.dic

 

Let me know what you think!

Belated happy new year!

--Tony

 


tablet question

Charlotte
 

Hello. I am considering purchasing a Windows tablet. I have a desktop PC but with my small business it would be great to be able to use the Windows platform that I am familiar with when I am out and about versus having to manipulate apps on my phone. Can anyone recommend a Windows tablet that supports NVDA and has a decent amount of ram and processing power? Any info is appreciated. Thanks.

Charlotte aka Mama Otter


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