Date   

Re: tablet question

David Griffith
 

I would be interested in this as well as most of the models I have looked at over the years appear too low powered for comfortable usage. You seem to either pay very little for a relatively tiny specs or a vast amount for something with reasonable laptop like spec like a Surface Pro from Microsoft. I do know of people successfully using a Surface but this does seem a pretty steep price hike, especially when compared to price range of Chrome Books.
As you suggest switching to something like a Chrome Book this would entail learning an entire new accessibility architecture and strategies.

David G.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charlotte
Sent: 09 January 2021 22:12
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] tablet question

Hello. I am considering purchasing a Windows tablet. I have a desktop PC but with my small business it would be great to be able to use the Windows platform that I am familiar with when I am out and about versus having to manipulate apps on my phone. Can anyone recommend a Windows tablet that supports NVDA and has a decent amount of ram and processing power? Any info is appreciated. Thanks.

Charlotte aka Mama Otter


--


Re: request how to use espeak ng as secondary language.

tilahun muniye
 

Hi.
Tanks a lot for your recommendation. But it must be sapi5 engine in
order to deal with dual voice addon. Still I am not able to get
espeak-ng for sapi5.

On 1/10/21, darkmad88@gmail.com <darkmad88@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi! Did you tried this:
https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/releases/tag/1.50
You need to download and install an MSI package corresponding to your
windows architecture, 32 or 64 bit. Hope it helps. Regards!






Re: Virtual Linux and NVDA?

Jason White
 

On 1/10/21 12:43 PM, Damien Garwood wrote:
When I tried to run a Linux-based VM, I got no speech, presumably because NVDA doesn't have access to the machine. So I'm wondering, other than through WSL, is it possible at all to run Linux and somehow get it to interact nicely with NVDA?
If the virtual machine has a network interface and runs sshd, you should be able to access it via ssh from the host system, with NVDA working as usual.

Another option would be to run a screen reader on the Linux guest, and to interact with it directly once you've moved focus into the appropriate window.

A third option would be to run Linux directly on hardware, with its own screen reader, instead of virtualizing it. That's what I do. In fact, I'm writing this message on Thunderbird 78.6 under Linux.


Re: Virtual Linux and NVDA?

Dan Miner
 

Setting up a basic ssh server is quite easy these days. I don't recall you mentioning a distro but it could be as easy as typing in a terminal :

apt install openssh-server

or

yum install openssh-server

Now, you need to be sure your VM application has fully "grabbed" the keyboard for that magic shortcut to work since you need it sent to Linux and not the host system. Often it is using the right control key to switch in and out like a toggle button.

Now if you fill somewhat confident in your typing skills, it is possible to do a sequence of steps that will work on about 90% of the distros out there. You just need to know the default user for the distro and it have sudo rights if not an admin user. The idea is to take advantage of most distros put a virtual console on VC1, get yourself there, login, and install openssh.... all in the "dark". Using today's seeing apps can be a big help here too.

Remember, you have a VM.. backup the initial disk image and you can destroy it to your heart's delight. *smile* Snapshots are very useful for this too.

Now, I do feel this is off topic for this mailing list but if you feel a need to continue then I suggest moving it to NVDA chat at a minimum.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Damien Garwood
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 4:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Virtual Linux and NVDA?

Hi Dan,
Yeah, I thought that when it booted and I got nothing. I was just getting absolutely no response - ended up having to do a hard shutdown.
And then it clicked - same machine, but...Well. Different machine!
I don't know how to set up an SSH server, which is why I ideally need it to work locally. But if it's not possible, it's not possible and I guess I'll have to learn some more advanced wizardry to be able to get stuff done. Including switching back to Windows. I must admit, this is my first time with VM's - whole new (and rather intimidating) area of computing for me.
Cheers,
Damien.

On 10/01/2021 10:49 pm, Dan Miner via groups.io wrote:
You have to understand that a VM provided by VirtualBox or VMWare is very much like having a whole different computer running. NVDA can't "reach in" and inspect the applications. So, you will have to get orca running within the VM itself for GUIs. Be sure you have sound enabled for the VM and the popular distributions can typically have orca turned on via pressing WIN+ALT+S once you believe you have the GUI running. If you don't plan to use a GUI, then you will need to get that Linux system to boot up with SpeakUp ,Fenrir, or some virtual console screen reader of your choice. With a command-line only method, I would just ssh into the box like your previous VPS set up.

Dan


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Damien
Garwood
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Virtual Linux and NVDA?

Hi there,
Yeah, that's what I've been doing up to now myself. But I'm cancelling my VPS subscription soon, so really I need a localised way, if there is one.
Cheers,
Damien.

On 10/01/2021 06:39 pm, Oleksandr Gryshchenko wrote:
Hi Damien,

Usually I connect to a Linux machine via ssh and work with it via the
command line.

Greetings.
Oleksandr










Re: Virtual Linux and NVDA?

Damien Garwood <damien@...>
 

Hi Dan,
Yeah, I thought that when it booted and I got nothing. I was just getting absolutely no response - ended up having to do a hard shutdown. And then it clicked - same machine, but...Well. Different machine!
I don't know how to set up an SSH server, which is why I ideally need it to work locally. But if it's not possible, it's not possible and I guess I'll have to learn some more advanced wizardry to be able to get stuff done. Including switching back to Windows. I must admit, this is my first time with VM's - whole new (and rather intimidating) area of computing for me.
Cheers,
Damien.

On 10/01/2021 10:49 pm, Dan Miner via groups.io wrote:
You have to understand that a VM provided by VirtualBox or VMWare is very much like having a whole different computer running. NVDA can't "reach in" and inspect the applications. So, you will have to get orca running within the VM itself for GUIs. Be sure you have sound enabled for the VM and the popular distributions can typically have orca turned on via pressing WIN+ALT+S once you believe you have the GUI running. If you don't plan to use a GUI, then you will need to get that Linux system to boot up with SpeakUp ,Fenrir, or some virtual console screen reader of your choice. With a command-line only method, I would just ssh into the box like your previous VPS set up.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Damien Garwood
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Virtual Linux and NVDA?
Hi there,
Yeah, that's what I've been doing up to now myself. But I'm cancelling my VPS subscription soon, so really I need a localised way, if there is one.
Cheers,
Damien.
On 10/01/2021 06:39 pm, Oleksandr Gryshchenko wrote:
Hi Damien,

Usually I connect to a Linux machine via ssh and work with it via the
command line.

Greetings.
Oleksandr


Re: Virtual Linux and NVDA?

Dan Miner
 

You have to understand that a VM provided by VirtualBox or VMWare is very much like having a whole different computer running. NVDA can't "reach in" and inspect the applications. So, you will have to get orca running within the VM itself for GUIs. Be sure you have sound enabled for the VM and the popular distributions can typically have orca turned on via pressing WIN+ALT+S once you believe you have the GUI running. If you don't plan to use a GUI, then you will need to get that Linux system to boot up with SpeakUp ,Fenrir, or some virtual console screen reader of your choice. With a command-line only method, I would just ssh into the box like your previous VPS set up.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Damien Garwood
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Virtual Linux and NVDA?

Hi there,
Yeah, that's what I've been doing up to now myself. But I'm cancelling my VPS subscription soon, so really I need a localised way, if there is one.
Cheers,
Damien.

On 10/01/2021 06:39 pm, Oleksandr Gryshchenko wrote:
Hi Damien,

Usually I connect to a Linux machine via ssh and work with it via the
command line.

Greetings.
Oleksandr


Re: control click with nvda?

 

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 04:41 PM, Dan Miner wrote:
It’s far too sensitive in my opinion
-
Not having a Surface at my disposal I can't answer this question, but is there not something that controls the sensitivity of the mousepad for touch/pressure?  There is on every other laptop I've ever used, and it's a good idea, if you can, to change all the sensitivity settings for heavy touch (which makes it less responsive to light touch).  And depending on the device driver and how the settings are structured, these are in different places for different makes/models, so I can't get any more specific than that.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: control click with nvda?

 

Dan,

        A little bit thicker (even if you use layers) and you'll definitely get there.

        While I understand, entirely, why mouse pointer movement is to be avoided at all costs for a screen reader user, that doesn't mean that either a mouse or mousepad cannot be effectively used if the mouse movement can be prevented.  With a mousepad, that means covering the thumb trackpad area with something thick enough that it won't recognize touch.  With a regular mouse, virtually all of which are optical these days, a piece of tape over the opening where the laser is emitted to detect mouse movement on its resting surface does the trick.

          In both cases the mouse buttons remain available for use for their native purposes.  And given my experiences with mouse emulation over the years, and that's up through recently, I'll take the treated mousepad/mouse every single time.  It eliminates a ton of headaches.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Looking for USB driver for Pac Mate Omni BX 400 on Windows 10

Dan Miner
 

You’re the 2nd person to suggest I needed to plug directly into the display.  The manual I found seems to be less forth coming about doing that but another long search of the physical device yielded a deeply hidden USB mini-B port along the insertion guides of the display itself.  So, I have it connected directly and got

 

“pm display  40  - k70” showing in braille on the display.

 

Progress!  I am still learning braille so I’m a bit proud I could decipher that. 

 

I extracted  the driver software, ran setup.exe in the newly created folder, and installed the Windows Focus driver option.  The device is showing in device manager now as:

 

LibUSB-1.0: FreedomScientific [PAC Mate]

Device type:  libusb (WinUSB) devices

Manufacturer:  libusb 1.0

Device status  multi line  This device is working properly.

 

I restarted NVDA but automatic selection doesn’t appear to be working.  I found a new braille display in the list for Focus and Pac Mate.  Sadly, I get:

 

“Braille Display Error  dialog  Could not load the freedomScientific display.”

 

A system reboot later to be sure all was settled, I still get that error.

 

I found this in the NVDA log:

Error initializing display driver freedomScientific for kwargs {'port': 'auto'}

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "braille.pyc", line 1730, in setDisplayByName

  File "brailleDisplayDrivers\freedomScientific.pyc", line 241, in __init__

RuntimeError: No Freedom Scientific display found

INFO - braille.BrailleHandler.setDisplayByName (15:28:37.987) - MainThread (8036):

Loaded braille display driver noBraille, current display has 0 cells.

 

 

 

Any ideas?

 

                Dan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 10:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Looking for USB driver for Pac Mate Omni BX 400 on Windows 10

 

Hello!

 

To use the PacMate Braille display with NVDA you must plug the Braille display directly to the PC and not through the PacMate device...

 

 


Try using this driver:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/awpykzm6s1ifegp/FocusBlueDriver1.0.2030.exe?dl=1

 

Rui Fontes

 

 

 

Às 05:23 de 10/01/2021, Dan Miner via groups.io escreveu:

Someone gave me a 40 cell braille display and it’s quite old but appears functional.  I just can’t get  it talking to my system.  It’s one of those PDA and display with a braille keyboard.  I found a thread in this very mailing list that seems to addressed a very similar model with same problem.  Sadly, the link to the USB driver in Ollie’s DropBox is dead.

 

https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/topic/4507670#15948

 

Anyone have that USB driver or know how to reach someone with it?  It’s impossible to find so far…

 

                Dan


Re: OCR: Interacting with items from recognized UI

Lukasz Golonka
 

On Sat, 9 Jan 2021 17:02:00 -0800
"Luke Robinett" <blindgroupsluke@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

For inaccessible UIs I'll often run NVDA OCR on the UI and then press enter or space bar on the UI controls I find in the recognized text such as tabs, menus and buttons. I find this only works in some programs and other times seems to be ignored. I believe the issue in some cases is that some UIs only respond when an actual mouse is clicked on a control.
Your assertion is incorrect as NVDA already activates these controls by
moving mouse to their screen location and performing a left click.

While I cannot be sure why it works only for some controls for you the
most likely explanation is that Windows 10 OCR reports wrong screen
coordinates for the recognized text.
You can also try routing mouse to the given control manually by pressing
NVDA+numpad slash as the position of the caret inside recognition
results corresponds to the position of the control which contains that
text on the screen.

--
Regards
Lukasz


Re: control click with nvda?

Dan Miner
 

It is always surprising how some of the little “low tech” solutions I rarely think of – been in computers too long.  *smile*

 

I have a Surface Pro with a type cover and I despise the touch pad it has built-in.  So, I trimmed down a 3 by 5 inch index card and tried the idea.  Sadly, the touch pad still responses quite well even thru that.  So, off to find something thicker.  It’s far too sensitive in my opinion and the smallest brushing of it will send the mouse pointer off into the weeds.

 

But, thank you for the idea.

 

                Dan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 10:06 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] control click with nvda?

 

Mitchel,

           Then my advice to you will be the same thing I've been doing as a tutor for years now with my screen reader users who have a laptop:  Mask off the mouse touchpad part of the mousepad as a whole, leaving only the hard left click and right click buttons exposed.  You then have access to these when you need them, without need of emulation of any kind, and you do not have issues with mouse pointer movement.

            A piece of cardboard that's about the weight that is used on the back of small notepads, blister packs that you get all sorts of stuff in, or even cutting the corner off of an old greeting card such that you retain both layers gives you enough thickness to prevent mouse movement.

            I always suggest taping down the left side like it's the spine of a book while taping down the right side with a tab that allows it to be lifted easily in the event you have a sighted assistant for anything, as the vast majority will be incapable of doing anything without the ability to move the mouse pointer somehow for point and click.  You just flip it shut and tap that tape tab back down when they're done and you're good to go.

            If you happen to have a newer laptop where the edges of the mouse pointer touchpad are not well defined, you may need a sighted assistant to get the right size mask cut and affixed.  If it's one of the conventional laptops where the mousepad size can be clearly felt around the edges of the bezel in which it sits, it's generally something that's DIY whether you have any vision or not.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: beta 3 and closing programs

Kevin Cussick
 

strange, same version beta3 and windows10 home 64bit and not getting this. is Your tb 64bit or 32bit? I use the 64bit version.

On 09/01/2021 15:15, Don H wrote:
I have uninstalled the beta 3 and gone back to NVDA 2020-3 and the issue is resolved with no new email announcements coming with thunderbird closed.  Would appear that the beta is the issue.
On 1/9/2021 9:06 AM, Gene wrote:
Perhaps the beta is announcing information from elsewhere.  Try closing Thunderbird while the beta is running.  Then switch to an earlier version. See if you hear announcements in the earlier version.  That will help determine if the beta is not allowing part of the program to close properly or if it is getting information from somewhere else.

Gene
From: Don H
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2021 8:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] beta 3 and closing programs

I can't specifically say this is a beta 3 issue but only started
happening after installing NVDA 2020-4 beta 3.
I am using the latest version of Win 10 and Thunderbird.  After using
Thunderbird I use alt f4 to close the program.  It appears that
thunderbird closes as it should.  I have thunderbird set to announce new
mail.  The strange thing is that with Thunderbird not open I still get
announcements of new Email which tells me that Thunderbird was not
closed properly when using alt f4 to close it.  Thunderbird is not
showing in the system tray or on the task bar when these announcements
are announced and I must open Thunderbird by using the icon on the desktop.











Re: muting

Dan Beaver
 

Just a note here about something I noticed while reading Gene's post. 


While listening I heard him say to type S N D V O L and press enter.  But what I actually heard was tinvol not S N D V O L.  I am still frequently disgusted with how messy the pronunciation tables are for the different synths.  I use MS David by the way.


Dan Beaver


On 1/10/2021 7:44 AM, Gene wrote:
> Do the following: Issue the command Windows key r. Hold the Windows > key and type r. The run dialog opens. Type sndvol and press enter. > The Windows volume control dialog will open. Tab once. You are on the > mute speakers button, though it presumably says unmute when the > speakers are muted. Press the space bar. Test with something like > NVDA key t to read the title bar to see if you have speech. > > Try this when you have speech to make sure things are set up as > expected. Don't mute the speakers, in other words tab to see if you > land on the button, then when you hear where you are, close the > volume control dialog with alt f4. If you unmute sound in this way > in the future, once you use space and get sound back, close the > dialog with alt f4. There is no ok button and settings changes take > immediate effect. > > I would advise getting a cheap USB sound card, you can get them for > less than 10 American dollars, for emergencies when you lose > speech and can't get it back, which is unlikely but which may happen. > Using the external sound card will give you speech until you solve > the problem, assuming it is solvable by changing settings, which it > likely will be. In case the problem is more serious, such as a > hardware failure, you will have speech with no interruption in your > use of the computer and can continue to use the external sound card. > > Gene -----Original Message----- From: Neil Campbell Sent: Sunday, > January 10, 2021 6:27 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] > muting > > > > > > > > Hello Everyone > > > > I am using NVDA with Windows 10 on a desk top computer, and suddenly > lost the NVDA voice. I tried to start NVDA again with control alt n > which did not work, and also tried to start Windows Narrator which > did not work too . I thought I may have muted the sound, so pressed > F7 which had no effect. I got the assistance of a sighted person who > said that there was a big cross through a speaker on the bottom of > the screen which he clicked the mouse on and sound came back. Is > there any way I can turn the sound back on myself using quick > keystrokes. I have no sight at all. > > > > Neil > > > > > > > > > > > > > . --
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Re: Virtual Linux and NVDA?

Damien Garwood <damien@...>
 

Hi there,
Yeah, that's what I've been doing up to now myself. But I'm cancelling my VPS subscription soon, so really I need a localised way, if there is one.
Cheers,
Damien.

On 10/01/2021 06:39 pm, Oleksandr Gryshchenko wrote:
Hi Damien,
Usually I connect to a Linux machine via ssh and work with it via the command line.
Greetings.
Oleksandr


Re: OCR: Interacting with items from recognized UI

Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...>
 

yes, very familiar with those commands and I’m still not sure it is being understood exactly what I’m asking about. I think the messages I’ve already written on the subject are pretty clear and I do appreciate you for taking a shot at it but I’m not going to try to continue explaining it and risk muddying the waters of my original question. We will see if we get some other responses. Thanks again.

On Jan 9, 2021, at 11:00 PM, Luke Robinett via groups.io <blindgroupsluke=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Sascha,

I will review that section of the manual, but I just want to make sure it was clear what I was asking about. I know I can initiate a mouse click from the keyboard using the NVDA key and the numpad slash key. I also have the golden cursor ad on so I can move the mouse cursor around, set hot spots etc. I’m still not sure how I can get from the text readout of an OCR recognition result to the screen location of one of the controls it recognized. For example, say I take OCR of an application’s interface and when I’m reviewing the OCR output, one of the items I come across says ”options.” How can I tell NVDA to go to where it found that text on the UI and initiate a mouse click there? Thanks again.

On Jan 9, 2021, at 5:14 PM, Sascha Cowley via groups.io <sascha.camille=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Y




Re: Virtual Linux and NVDA?

Oleksandr Gryshchenko
 

Hi Damien,

Usually I connect to a Linux machine via ssh and work with it via the command line.

Greetings.
Oleksandr


Re: request how to use espeak ng as secondary language.

darkmad88@...
 

 Hi! Did you tried this:
https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/releases/tag/1.50
You need to download and install an MSI package corresponding to your windows architecture, 32 or 64 bit. Hope it helps. Regards!


Virtual Linux and NVDA?

Damien Garwood <damien@...>
 

Hi,
When I tried to run a Linux-based VM, I got no speech, presumably because NVDA doesn't have access to the machine. So I'm wondering, other than through WSL, is it possible at all to run Linux and somehow get it to interact nicely with NVDA?
Cheers.
Damien.


Re: muting

Chris
 

Also the unmute addon for NVDA which can restore sound if muted or too low on NVDA restart

 

GitHub page

https://github.com/grisov/Unmute

 

download

https://github.com/grisov/Unmute/releases/download/v1.5/unmute-1.5.nvda-addon

 

 

 

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: 10 January 2021 16:45
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] muting

 

Neil,

          Mute is typically done through a dedicated key on some media keyboards, or through F6 or F7 (when used as media keys) on many laptops and some desktop keyboards.  All it takes to trigger a mute by accident is Fn+F6 (or F7) and often Fn+F6 (or F7) will toggle it back off.

           This is another of those instances where make and model information as well as whether any media keys function is enabled (and for a screen reader user I'd very, very strongly suspect it's not unless the machine is brand new and untweaked yet).  Some makers do highly unconventional things as far as what function keys correspond to what media functions.

            Gene's advice about using sndvol and getting a cheap external USB soundcard are both things to try and do.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 

 


Re: Looking for USB driver for Pac Mate Omni BX 400 on Windows 10

Rui Fontes
 

Hello!


To use the PacMate Braille display with NVDA you must plug the Braille display directly to the PC and not through the PacMate device...




Try using this driver:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/awpykzm6s1ifegp/FocusBlueDriver1.0.2030.exe?dl=1


Rui Fontes




Às 05:23 de 10/01/2021, Dan Miner via groups.io escreveu:

Someone gave me a 40 cell braille display and it’s quite old but appears functional.  I just can’t get  it talking to my system.  It’s one of those PDA and display with a braille keyboard.  I found a thread in this very mailing list that seems to addressed a very similar model with same problem.  Sadly, the link to the USB driver in Ollie’s DropBox is dead.

 

https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/topic/4507670#15948

 

Anyone have that USB driver or know how to reach someone with it?  It’s impossible to find so far…

 

                Dan

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