Date   

Re: OCR: Interacting with items from recognized UI

Lukasz Golonka
 

On Sat, 9 Jan 2021 17:02:00 -0800
"Luke Robinett" <blindgroupsluke@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

For inaccessible UIs I'll often run NVDA OCR on the UI and then press enter or space bar on the UI controls I find in the recognized text such as tabs, menus and buttons. I find this only works in some programs and other times seems to be ignored. I believe the issue in some cases is that some UIs only respond when an actual mouse is clicked on a control.
Your assertion is incorrect as NVDA already activates these controls by
moving mouse to their screen location and performing a left click.

While I cannot be sure why it works only for some controls for you the
most likely explanation is that Windows 10 OCR reports wrong screen
coordinates for the recognized text.
You can also try routing mouse to the given control manually by pressing
NVDA+numpad slash as the position of the caret inside recognition
results corresponds to the position of the control which contains that
text on the screen.

--
Regards
Lukasz


Re: control click with nvda?

Dan Miner
 

It is always surprising how some of the little “low tech” solutions I rarely think of – been in computers too long.  *smile*

 

I have a Surface Pro with a type cover and I despise the touch pad it has built-in.  So, I trimmed down a 3 by 5 inch index card and tried the idea.  Sadly, the touch pad still responses quite well even thru that.  So, off to find something thicker.  It’s far too sensitive in my opinion and the smallest brushing of it will send the mouse pointer off into the weeds.

 

But, thank you for the idea.

 

                Dan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 10:06 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] control click with nvda?

 

Mitchel,

           Then my advice to you will be the same thing I've been doing as a tutor for years now with my screen reader users who have a laptop:  Mask off the mouse touchpad part of the mousepad as a whole, leaving only the hard left click and right click buttons exposed.  You then have access to these when you need them, without need of emulation of any kind, and you do not have issues with mouse pointer movement.

            A piece of cardboard that's about the weight that is used on the back of small notepads, blister packs that you get all sorts of stuff in, or even cutting the corner off of an old greeting card such that you retain both layers gives you enough thickness to prevent mouse movement.

            I always suggest taping down the left side like it's the spine of a book while taping down the right side with a tab that allows it to be lifted easily in the event you have a sighted assistant for anything, as the vast majority will be incapable of doing anything without the ability to move the mouse pointer somehow for point and click.  You just flip it shut and tap that tape tab back down when they're done and you're good to go.

            If you happen to have a newer laptop where the edges of the mouse pointer touchpad are not well defined, you may need a sighted assistant to get the right size mask cut and affixed.  If it's one of the conventional laptops where the mousepad size can be clearly felt around the edges of the bezel in which it sits, it's generally something that's DIY whether you have any vision or not.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: beta 3 and closing programs

Kevin Cussick
 

strange, same version beta3 and windows10 home 64bit and not getting this. is Your tb 64bit or 32bit? I use the 64bit version.

On 09/01/2021 15:15, Don H wrote:
I have uninstalled the beta 3 and gone back to NVDA 2020-3 and the issue is resolved with no new email announcements coming with thunderbird closed.  Would appear that the beta is the issue.
On 1/9/2021 9:06 AM, Gene wrote:
Perhaps the beta is announcing information from elsewhere.  Try closing Thunderbird while the beta is running.  Then switch to an earlier version. See if you hear announcements in the earlier version.  That will help determine if the beta is not allowing part of the program to close properly or if it is getting information from somewhere else.

Gene
From: Don H
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2021 8:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] beta 3 and closing programs

I can't specifically say this is a beta 3 issue but only started
happening after installing NVDA 2020-4 beta 3.
I am using the latest version of Win 10 and Thunderbird.  After using
Thunderbird I use alt f4 to close the program.  It appears that
thunderbird closes as it should.  I have thunderbird set to announce new
mail.  The strange thing is that with Thunderbird not open I still get
announcements of new Email which tells me that Thunderbird was not
closed properly when using alt f4 to close it.  Thunderbird is not
showing in the system tray or on the task bar when these announcements
are announced and I must open Thunderbird by using the icon on the desktop.











Re: muting

Dan Beaver
 

Just a note here about something I noticed while reading Gene's post. 


While listening I heard him say to type S N D V O L and press enter.  But what I actually heard was tinvol not S N D V O L.  I am still frequently disgusted with how messy the pronunciation tables are for the different synths.  I use MS David by the way.


Dan Beaver


On 1/10/2021 7:44 AM, Gene wrote:
> Do the following: Issue the command Windows key r. Hold the Windows > key and type r. The run dialog opens. Type sndvol and press enter. > The Windows volume control dialog will open. Tab once. You are on the > mute speakers button, though it presumably says unmute when the > speakers are muted. Press the space bar. Test with something like > NVDA key t to read the title bar to see if you have speech. > > Try this when you have speech to make sure things are set up as > expected. Don't mute the speakers, in other words tab to see if you > land on the button, then when you hear where you are, close the > volume control dialog with alt f4. If you unmute sound in this way > in the future, once you use space and get sound back, close the > dialog with alt f4. There is no ok button and settings changes take > immediate effect. > > I would advise getting a cheap USB sound card, you can get them for > less than 10 American dollars, for emergencies when you lose > speech and can't get it back, which is unlikely but which may happen. > Using the external sound card will give you speech until you solve > the problem, assuming it is solvable by changing settings, which it > likely will be. In case the problem is more serious, such as a > hardware failure, you will have speech with no interruption in your > use of the computer and can continue to use the external sound card. > > Gene -----Original Message----- From: Neil Campbell Sent: Sunday, > January 10, 2021 6:27 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] > muting > > > > > > > > Hello Everyone > > > > I am using NVDA with Windows 10 on a desk top computer, and suddenly > lost the NVDA voice. I tried to start NVDA again with control alt n > which did not work, and also tried to start Windows Narrator which > did not work too . I thought I may have muted the sound, so pressed > F7 which had no effect. I got the assistance of a sighted person who > said that there was a big cross through a speaker on the bottom of > the screen which he clicked the mouse on and sound came back. Is > there any way I can turn the sound back on myself using quick > keystrokes. I have no sight at all. > > > > Neil > > > > > > > > > > > > > . --
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Re: Virtual Linux and NVDA?

Damien Garwood <damien@...>
 

Hi there,
Yeah, that's what I've been doing up to now myself. But I'm cancelling my VPS subscription soon, so really I need a localised way, if there is one.
Cheers,
Damien.

On 10/01/2021 06:39 pm, Oleksandr Gryshchenko wrote:
Hi Damien,
Usually I connect to a Linux machine via ssh and work with it via the command line.
Greetings.
Oleksandr


Re: OCR: Interacting with items from recognized UI

Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...>
 

yes, very familiar with those commands and I’m still not sure it is being understood exactly what I’m asking about. I think the messages I’ve already written on the subject are pretty clear and I do appreciate you for taking a shot at it but I’m not going to try to continue explaining it and risk muddying the waters of my original question. We will see if we get some other responses. Thanks again.

On Jan 9, 2021, at 11:00 PM, Luke Robinett via groups.io <blindgroupsluke=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Sascha,

I will review that section of the manual, but I just want to make sure it was clear what I was asking about. I know I can initiate a mouse click from the keyboard using the NVDA key and the numpad slash key. I also have the golden cursor ad on so I can move the mouse cursor around, set hot spots etc. I’m still not sure how I can get from the text readout of an OCR recognition result to the screen location of one of the controls it recognized. For example, say I take OCR of an application’s interface and when I’m reviewing the OCR output, one of the items I come across says ”options.” How can I tell NVDA to go to where it found that text on the UI and initiate a mouse click there? Thanks again.

On Jan 9, 2021, at 5:14 PM, Sascha Cowley via groups.io <sascha.camille=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Y




Re: Virtual Linux and NVDA?

Oleksandr Gryshchenko
 

Hi Damien,

Usually I connect to a Linux machine via ssh and work with it via the command line.

Greetings.
Oleksandr


Re: request how to use espeak ng as secondary language.

darkmad88@...
 

 Hi! Did you tried this:
https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/releases/tag/1.50
You need to download and install an MSI package corresponding to your windows architecture, 32 or 64 bit. Hope it helps. Regards!


Virtual Linux and NVDA?

Damien Garwood <damien@...>
 

Hi,
When I tried to run a Linux-based VM, I got no speech, presumably because NVDA doesn't have access to the machine. So I'm wondering, other than through WSL, is it possible at all to run Linux and somehow get it to interact nicely with NVDA?
Cheers.
Damien.


Re: muting

Chris
 

Also the unmute addon for NVDA which can restore sound if muted or too low on NVDA restart

 

GitHub page

https://github.com/grisov/Unmute

 

download

https://github.com/grisov/Unmute/releases/download/v1.5/unmute-1.5.nvda-addon

 

 

 

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: 10 January 2021 16:45
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] muting

 

Neil,

          Mute is typically done through a dedicated key on some media keyboards, or through F6 or F7 (when used as media keys) on many laptops and some desktop keyboards.  All it takes to trigger a mute by accident is Fn+F6 (or F7) and often Fn+F6 (or F7) will toggle it back off.

           This is another of those instances where make and model information as well as whether any media keys function is enabled (and for a screen reader user I'd very, very strongly suspect it's not unless the machine is brand new and untweaked yet).  Some makers do highly unconventional things as far as what function keys correspond to what media functions.

            Gene's advice about using sndvol and getting a cheap external USB soundcard are both things to try and do.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 

 


Re: Looking for USB driver for Pac Mate Omni BX 400 on Windows 10

Rui Fontes
 

Hello!


To use the PacMate Braille display with NVDA you must plug the Braille display directly to the PC and not through the PacMate device...




Try using this driver:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/awpykzm6s1ifegp/FocusBlueDriver1.0.2030.exe?dl=1


Rui Fontes




Às 05:23 de 10/01/2021, Dan Miner via groups.io escreveu:

Someone gave me a 40 cell braille display and it’s quite old but appears functional.  I just can’t get  it talking to my system.  It’s one of those PDA and display with a braille keyboard.  I found a thread in this very mailing list that seems to addressed a very similar model with same problem.  Sadly, the link to the USB driver in Ollie’s DropBox is dead.

 

https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/topic/4507670#15948

 

Anyone have that USB driver or know how to reach someone with it?  It’s impossible to find so far…

 

                Dan


Re: control click with nvda?

 

Mitchel,

           Then my advice to you will be the same thing I've been doing as a tutor for years now with my screen reader users who have a laptop:  Mask off the mouse touchpad part of the mousepad as a whole, leaving only the hard left click and right click buttons exposed.  You then have access to these when you need them, without need of emulation of any kind, and you do not have issues with mouse pointer movement.

            A piece of cardboard that's about the weight that is used on the back of small notepads, blister packs that you get all sorts of stuff in, or even cutting the corner off of an old greeting card such that you retain both layers gives you enough thickness to prevent mouse movement.

            I always suggest taping down the left side like it's the spine of a book while taping down the right side with a tab that allows it to be lifted easily in the event you have a sighted assistant for anything, as the vast majority will be incapable of doing anything without the ability to move the mouse pointer somehow for point and click.  You just flip it shut and tap that tape tab back down when they're done and you're good to go.

            If you happen to have a newer laptop where the edges of the mouse pointer touchpad are not well defined, you may need a sighted assistant to get the right size mask cut and affixed.  If it's one of the conventional laptops where the mousepad size can be clearly felt around the edges of the bezel in which it sits, it's generally something that's DIY whether you have any vision or not.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: muting

 

Neil,

          Mute is typically done through a dedicated key on some media keyboards, or through F6 or F7 (when used as media keys) on many laptops and some desktop keyboards.  All it takes to trigger a mute by accident is Fn+F6 (or F7) and often Fn+F6 (or F7) will toggle it back off.

           This is another of those instances where make and model information as well as whether any media keys function is enabled (and for a screen reader user I'd very, very strongly suspect it's not unless the machine is brand new and untweaked yet).  Some makers do highly unconventional things as far as what function keys correspond to what media functions.

            Gene's advice about using sndvol and getting a cheap external USB soundcard are both things to try and do.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Key Pass Through

Gene
 

I was wrong about the keys not working with the pass through command. I had thought they didn't work because nothing is spoken. When you use the main keyboard home and end keys without using the pass through command or the numpad home and end using the nav mode and again not using the pass through command, add-on, something is spoken, the character you move to or the list item you move to.

Also, I just found something interesting about the pass next key through command. it doesn't work properly when you are in a list of files or the desktop list. The rename dialog opens. In short, it is a much better idea from the standpoint of convenience and speech feedback to use the Nav Mode Add-on for the purpose you want or to use the main keyboard home and end keys. I don't know anything about your keyboard but its hard to believe that there isn't some sort of command to make certain keys perform as home and end keys. Those are important and expected commands on keyboards.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 9:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Key Pass Through

I just tried it. the pass through command doesn't cause the numpad home and
end keys to change your position. I don't know if the numpad does anything
if you use the pass through command before pressing a numpad key. Use home
and end on the main keyboard, or, if you want to use the numpad hhome and
end, there is an add-on that allows you to make the numpad perform as you
expect by not having NVDA reserve it for its own commands. the add-on can
be read about and downloaded here:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/numpadNavMode.en.html

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Hicks Steven (CORNWALL IT SERVICES) via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 9:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Key Pass Through

Sorry, that doesn't seem to work.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of brice
Mijares
Sent: 10 January 2021 15:13
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Key Pass Through

I believe it is NVDA f-2.

On 1/10/2021 7:10 AM, Hicks Steven (CORNWALL IT SERVICES) via groups.io
wrote:

Hi,

Can anyone remind me on how to pass through a key please e.g. I need
to press the home and end keys when in my mailbox to go to the top and
bottom of the message list and home and end are NVDA keys.

Many thanks in anticipation,



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Re: Key Pass Through

Gene
 

I just tried it. the pass through command doesn't cause the numpad home and end keys to change your position. I don't know if the numpad does anything if you use the pass through command before pressing a numpad key. Use home and end on the main keyboard, or, if you want to use the numpad hhome and end, there is an add-on that allows you to make the numpad perform as you expect by not having NVDA reserve it for its own commands. the add-on can be read about and downloaded here:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/numpadNavMode.en.html

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Hicks Steven (CORNWALL IT SERVICES) via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 9:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Key Pass Through

Sorry, that doesn't seem to work.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of brice Mijares
Sent: 10 January 2021 15:13
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Key Pass Through

I believe it is NVDA f-2.

On 1/10/2021 7:10 AM, Hicks Steven (CORNWALL IT SERVICES) via groups.io
wrote:

Hi,

Can anyone remind me on how to pass through a key please e.g. I need
to press the home and end keys when in my mailbox to go to the top and
bottom of the message list and home and end are NVDA keys.

Many thanks in anticipation,



**********************************************************************
**********************************************

This message may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient please inform the sender that you have received the
message in error before deleting it.
Please do not disclose, copy or distribute information in this e-mail
or take any action in relation to its contents. To do so is strictly
prohibited and may be unlawful. Thank you for your co-operation.

NHSmail is the secure email and directory service available for all
NHS staff in England and Scotland. NHSmail is approved for exchanging
patient data and other sensitive information with NHSmail and other
accredited email services.

For more information and to find out how you can switch,
https://portal.nhs.net/help/joiningnhsmail








This message originated from outside of NHSmail. Please do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.



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Re: Key Pass Through

Hicks Steven (CORNWALL IT SERVICES) <steven.hicks@...>
 

Thanks very much, this keyboard only has a number pad and no extra six keys but NVDA+F2 is now working, thanks all!

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 10 January 2021 15:32
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Key Pass Through

Home and end are only NVDA keys on the numpad. They aren't if you use the keys on the main keyboard. If you don't want to use the keys on the main keyboard, the pass through command is NVDA key f2.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Hicks Steven (CORNWALL IT SERVICES) via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 9:10 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Key Pass Through



Hi,



Can anyone remind me on how to pass through a key please e.g. I need to press the home and end keys when in my mailbox to go to the top and bottom of the message list and home and end are NVDA keys.



Many thanks in anticipation,





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Please do not disclose, copy or distribute information in this e-mail or take any action in relation to its contents. To do so is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Thank you for your co-operation.

NHSmail is the secure email and directory service available for all NHS staff in England and Scotland. NHSmail is approved for exchanging patient data and other sensitive information with NHSmail and other accredited email services.

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This message originated from outside of NHSmail. Please do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.



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Re: Key Pass Through

brice Mijares
 

If you hit NVDA 1 on the number row, it puts you in key describer mode. Now hit NVDA f-2 and it will say it will pass you through to windows key or something of the likes. Remember to hit NVDA 1 to get out of key describer mode.

On 1/10/2021 7:17 AM, Hicks Steven (CORNWALL IT SERVICES) via groups.io wrote:
Sorry, that doesn't seem to work.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of brice Mijares
Sent: 10 January 2021 15:13
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Key Pass Through

I believe it is NVDA f-2.

On 1/10/2021 7:10 AM, Hicks Steven (CORNWALL IT SERVICES) via groups.io
wrote:
Hi,

Can anyone remind me on how to pass through a key please e.g. I need
to press the home and end keys when in my mailbox to go to the top and
bottom of the message list and home and end are NVDA keys.

Many thanks in anticipation,



**********************************************************************
**********************************************

This message may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient please inform the sender that you have received the
message in error before deleting it.
Please do not disclose, copy or distribute information in this e-mail
or take any action in relation to its contents. To do so is strictly
prohibited and may be unlawful. Thank you for your co-operation.

NHSmail is the secure email and directory service available for all
NHS staff in England and Scotland. NHSmail is approved for exchanging
patient data and other sensitive information with NHSmail and other
accredited email services.

For more information and to find out how you can switch,
https://portal.nhs.net/help/joiningnhsmail







This message originated from outside of NHSmail. Please do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.



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Please do not disclose, copy or distribute information in this e-mail or take any action in relation to its contents. To do so is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Thank you for your co-operation.

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Re: Key Pass Through

Gene
 

Home and end are only NVDA keys on the numpad. They aren't if you use the keys on the main keyboard. If you don't want to use the keys on the main keyboard, the pass through command is NVDA key f2.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Hicks Steven (CORNWALL IT SERVICES) via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 9:10 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Key Pass Through



Hi,



Can anyone remind me on how to pass through a key please e.g. I need to press the home and end keys when in my mailbox to go to the top and bottom of the message list and home and end are NVDA keys.



Many thanks in anticipation,





********************************************************************************************************************

This message may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient please inform the
sender that you have received the message in error before deleting it.
Please do not disclose, copy or distribute information in this e-mail or take any action in relation to its contents. To do so is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Thank you for your co-operation.

NHSmail is the secure email and directory service available for all NHS staff in England and Scotland. NHSmail is approved for exchanging patient data and other sensitive information with NHSmail and other accredited email services.

For more information and to find out how you can switch, https://portal.nhs.net/help/joiningnhsmail


Re: Key Pass Through

Hicks Steven (CORNWALL IT SERVICES) <steven.hicks@...>
 

Sorry, that doesn't seem to work.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of brice Mijares
Sent: 10 January 2021 15:13
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Key Pass Through

I believe it is NVDA f-2.

On 1/10/2021 7:10 AM, Hicks Steven (CORNWALL IT SERVICES) via groups.io
wrote:

Hi,

Can anyone remind me on how to pass through a key please e.g. I need
to press the home and end keys when in my mailbox to go to the top and
bottom of the message list and home and end are NVDA keys.

Many thanks in anticipation,



**********************************************************************
**********************************************

This message may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient please inform the sender that you have received the
message in error before deleting it.
Please do not disclose, copy or distribute information in this e-mail
or take any action in relation to its contents. To do so is strictly
prohibited and may be unlawful. Thank you for your co-operation.

NHSmail is the secure email and directory service available for all
NHS staff in England and Scotland. NHSmail is approved for exchanging
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Re: Key Pass Through

brice Mijares
 

I believe it is NVDA f-2.

On 1/10/2021 7:10 AM, Hicks Steven (CORNWALL IT SERVICES) via groups.io wrote:

Hi,

Can anyone remind me on how to pass through a key please e.g. I need to press the home and end keys when in my mailbox to go to the top and bottom of the message list and home and end are NVDA keys.

Many thanks in anticipation,



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