Date   

Re: Using NVDA With Remote!

Thomas E Williamson, Senior
 

Ok, I have successfully followed those instructions, from 2 different
computers, but I got the same results. Nothing, or no speech on my end of
the deal.
When I press f11, the fitst time, it says, local machine, and the second
time, it says, controlloint remote computer.
However, I can not navigate or hear, what the person is doing, except by
telephone.
Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ann Byrne
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 7:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using NVDA With Remote!

I am using NVDA with remote with a student. A couple of things:
Unlike with JAWS, where the controller assigns a key, The target computer
has to invite the remote first Then the controller signs in, using the key
the target gives him.
NVDA makes a two-toned sound when the connection is made.
then the controller presses f11, and NVDA says 'controlling remote
computer'.
And you're in business.

Holler if that's only clear as mud.




.At 04:34 PM 1/11/2021, you wrote:
Yes Mam, I did that, but I can not hear anything.
I wonder, if there is an add on that I need to get.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ann Byrne
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 4:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using NVDA With Remote!

If you are set up to control the other computer, remember to press
f11 so you can see/hear it.
At 04:04 PM 1/11/2021, you wrote:
Hello,
When I connect to another's person usin nvda remote, it does not read
on my end, what she hears, on her end?
What might be the problem, why I can not hear, while to he computer?
Thanks for your help!
Regards,
Thomas.














Re: Tony's add-ons: new and updated

Aschalew Byness
 

toni
I really don't know what to say. May God bless you extremely well. I
have been wishing for long to see 'sentence nav add-on supporting MS
word and wordpad. I just tested the water. It works fine. As NVDa do
not recognize sentence-ending punctuation in my language, Amharic, I
found sentence nav to be one-of a kind. I am again at a loss for words
to express what I felt about it.

On 1/11/21, Suhas Dharwad <twigsnap7@gmail.com> wrote:
sentence nav, word nav, and symbols, does sound quite interesting.

Will give it a try.
thanks.

---Suhas
Sent from Thunderbird <https://www.thunderbird.net/>


“Things can turn out differently, Apollo.
That's the nice thing about being human.
We only have one life, but we can choose what kind of story it's
going to be.”

Rick Riordan <https://rickriordan.com/>
On 1/10/2021 3:43, Tony Malykh wrote:

Hello all,

This is Tony, author of many NVDA add-ons. During holidays I updated
many of my add-ons, and wrote two new add-ons, so I would like to
share them with you guys. This is a long email, so please feel free to
navigate by headings!

Please note that links on the official website have not been updated,
as it seems that nobody has access to that website anymore. Therefore,
please download directly from Github, download links included below.


New add-ons:


WordNav

It takes word navigation to the next level in NVDA. It standardizes
what exactly does word mean, e.g. does it include punctuation before
and after, moreover, it offers various definitions of word, some of
which might be useful for software developers, for example when they
are working with camelCaseIdentifiers. It redefines Control+Left/Right
keystrokes, as well as it adds optional Control+Windows+Left/Right
keystrokes. Configuration panel included!

·Github: https://github.com/mltony/nvda-word-nav/

·Download:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-word-nav/releases/download/v1.2/wordNav-1.2.nvda-addon


Console toolkit

This is a collection of tools for heavy console users. Among its
features are:

·More realtime speaking of console output

·* Beep on update

·Control+V shortcut now works in ssh connections

·Editing of current prompt in accessible window

·Capturing command output, including multi-page, and displaying it in
an accessible window

Please note, it supports the default Windows console, a.k.a. command
prompt, as well as windows PowerShell.

·Github: https://github.com/mltony/nvda-console-toolkit/

·Download:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-console-toolkit/releases/download/v0.2dev/consoleToolkit-0.2dev.nvda-addon


Updates


SentenceNav

This add-on allows to read text sentence by sentence using Alt+Up/Down
keystroke. I managed to improve its performance a lot, now it reads
sentences much faster, especially in large paragraphs. I also added
experimental support for Microsoft Word and WordPad – before this
version built-in NVDA logic applied to sentence navigation in these
programs, and many users have complained about that. Also, a number of
bugfixes. Also I wrote extensive documentation, since sentence finding
code has become so complicated, even I myself is having a hard time
reading my own code after a couple of years since first release 😊

·Github: https://github.com/mltony/nvda-sentence-nav/

·Download:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-sentence-nav/releases/download/v2.9/SentenceNav-2.9.nvda-addon

<https://github.com/mltony/nvda-sentence-nav/releases/download/v2.9/SentenceNav-2.9.nvda-addon>


BrowserNav

BrowserNav contains a set of improvements to browse mode in NVDA.
Besides a number of bugfixes, this new version includes command to
jump to next text written in different style (bound to tilde, that
weird key right above Tab), and a command to scroll down to reveal all
the hidden content, bound to backslash. That last command might be
useful for websites, that load content dynamically. This includes
Youtube, that doesn’t load the entire page and expects users to scroll
down to reveal certain elements, and also so called infinite scroll
webpages, such as Amazon and Facebook.

·Github: https://github.com/mltony/nvda-browser-nav/

·Download:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-browser-nav/releases/download/v1.12/browsernav-1.12.nvda-addon

<https://github.com/mltony/nvda-browser-nav/releases/download/v1.12/browsernav-1.12.nvda-addon>


Tony’s enhancements

This add-on is an incubator for my experimental ideas, yet I believe
many of them might be quite handy for many users. In particular, this
time WordNav and Console toolkit mentioned above have graduated from
this incubator. 😊 Among new features that I added are QuickSearch
command, that allows to quickly find predefined text or regular
expression in text files. I personally find it useful for editing
markdown, because you can set the regular expression to search for
next/previous heading, and also for programming. Another new feature
allows to set system priority for NVDA process – this might improve
responsiveness of NVDA, especially when CPU load is high.

·Github: https://github.com/mltony/nvda-tonys-enhancements/

·Download:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-tonys-enhancements/releases/download/v1.8/tonysEnhancements-1.8.nvda-addon

<https://github.com/mltony/nvda-tonys-enhancements/releases/download/v1.8/tonysEnhancements-1.8.nvda-addon>


Other


NVDA Symbols

This is not an add-on, but rather a comprehensive (more or less) table
of unicode characters with their proper English names. In particular,
it includes math symbols (the ones that are not defined in NVDA),
Greek letters, technical symbols, various arrows, etc. If you’re
Greek, you would probably want to exclude Greek letters from this
dictionary. If you speak CJK languages, you would probably want to
exclude fixed-width punctuation page from that dictionary. This table
would need to be added manually to your symbols.dic file in NVDA user
config directory.

·Github: https://github.com/mltony/nvda-symbols/
<https://github.com/mltony/nvda-symbols/>

·Download:
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mltony/nvda-symbols/main/final.dic
<https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mltony/nvda-symbols/main/final.dic>

Let me know what you think!

Belated happy new year!

--Tony






Re: Using NVDA With Remote!

Ann Byrne
 

I am using NVDA with remote with a student. A couple of things:
Unlike with JAWS, where the controller assigns a key, The target computer has to invite the remote first
Then the controller signs in, using the key the target gives him.
NVDA makes a two-toned sound when the connection is made.
then the controller presses f11, and NVDA says 'controlling remote computer'.
And you're in business.

Holler if that's only clear as mud.




.At 04:34 PM 1/11/2021, you wrote:

Yes Mam, I did that, but I can not hear anything.
I wonder, if there is an add on that I need to get.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ann Byrne
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 4:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using NVDA With Remote!

If you are set up to control the other computer, remember to press
f11 so you can see/hear it.
At 04:04 PM 1/11/2021, you wrote:
Hello,
When I connect to another's person usin nvda remote, it does not read
on my end, what she hears, on her end?
What might be the problem, why I can not hear, while to he computer?
Thanks for your help!
Regards,
Thomas.














Re: Will NVDA eventually use AI for better GUI recognition?

Rob Hudson
 

Yeah all I know is that it's a scripting language. Didn't know how deep it got into machine learning fuzzy logic and AI>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jaffar Sidek" <jaffar.sidek10@gmail.com>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 08:55:24 +0800
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will NVDA eventually use AI for better GUI recognition?

You can do Machine learning with python, so It may not be imposible to
implement AI.

On 12/1/2021 8:29 am, Rob Hudson wrote:
Is that capability even available in python.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Supanut Leepaisomboon" <supanut2000@outlook.com>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 16:18:00 -0800
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will NVDA eventually use AI for better GUI recognition?

That is actually a great idea, I can imagine this capability being used to make PC games more accessible with NVDA.













Re: Will NVDA eventually use AI for better GUI recognition?

Jaffar Sidek <jaffar.sidek10@...>
 

You can do Machine learning with python, so It may not be imposible to implement AI.

On 12/1/2021 8:29 am, Rob Hudson wrote:
Is that capability even available in python.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Supanut Leepaisomboon" <supanut2000@outlook.com>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 16:18:00 -0800
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will NVDA eventually use AI for better GUI recognition?

That is actually a great idea, I can imagine this capability being used to make PC games more accessible with NVDA.








Re: Will NVDA eventually use AI for better GUI recognition?

Sascha Cowley
 

Yes. What about it wouldn't be, and why?

On 2021-01-12 11:29, Rob Hudson wrote:
Is that capability even available in python.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Supanut Leepaisomboon" <supanut2000@outlook.com>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 16:18:00 -0800
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will NVDA eventually use AI for better GUI recognition?

That is actually a great idea, I can imagine this capability being used to make PC games more accessible with NVDA.








Re: Will NVDA eventually use AI for better GUI recognition?

Rob Hudson
 

Is that capability even available in python.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Supanut Leepaisomboon" <supanut2000@outlook.com>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 16:18:00 -0800
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will NVDA eventually use AI for better GUI recognition?

That is actually a great idea, I can imagine this capability being used to make PC games more accessible with NVDA.







Re: Will NVDA eventually use AI for better GUI recognition?

 

That is actually a great idea, I can imagine this capability being used to make PC games more accessible with NVDA.


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

 

On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 06:43 PM, Luke Robinett wrote:
Can't hurt to be familiar with some advanced search techniques like using quotes for an exact phrase match, the plus sign to indicate that a search term must be present or a minus sign to indicate not to return any results with that search term
-
And what you've listed above are probably the most advanced search operators that many will ever use.  The only other one I'd add, which is used very seldom but is really, really handy at times, is the site: operator.  It allows you to limit your search to a specific website or part of a website, depending on the URL you put after the colon (and you don't need the http:// or https://).

I still use quoted phrases for exact matches the most frequently, but will also use the minus operator to eliminate results I don't want.  And that's not just in web search engines, but also other searches like Amazon when looking for a product.  If you're dealing with, say, a specific smartphone you will virtually always get hundreds of results for cases or screen protectors for it as well.  A search using, for instance:

"Galaxy S10" -case -"screen protector"

gets rid of scads of unwanted results.  Of course, if all one wanted was screen protectors, but not cases for a given model, changing that minus to a plus in front of "screen protector" would get you that.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Will NVDA eventually use AI for better GUI recognition?

William
 

That is good idea, and also I like voiceover the ability to label inaccessible element myself.


Luke Robinett 於 12/1/2021 7:48 寫道:

So one thing I enjoy about VoiceOver on my iPhone is it has gotten really good at using UI to make otherwise inaccessible UI elements available to interact with. More than just simple OCR, it can ascertain the layout and make educated guesses about controls like buttons and tabs, greatly expanding the usability of apps that otherwise would be partially or totally inaccessible.

Is there any chance NVDA will eventually reach that level of sophistication? I know there are third party add-ons that attempt to bridge that gap for specific types of apps, for example the great Sibiac add-on which helps make certain music production apps and plugins accessible with NVDA, but it would be great to see these capabilities broadened and rolled into the core functionality of the product.

 

Thanks,

Luke

 


Will NVDA eventually use AI for better GUI recognition?

Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...>
 

So one thing I enjoy about VoiceOver on my iPhone is it has gotten really good at using UI to make otherwise inaccessible UI elements available to interact with. More than just simple OCR, it can ascertain the layout and make educated guesses about controls like buttons and tabs, greatly expanding the usability of apps that otherwise would be partially or totally inaccessible.

Is there any chance NVDA will eventually reach that level of sophistication? I know there are third party add-ons that attempt to bridge that gap for specific types of apps, for example the great Sibiac add-on which helps make certain music production apps and plugins accessible with NVDA, but it would be great to see these capabilities broadened and rolled into the core functionality of the product.

 

Thanks,

Luke

 


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...>
 

Can't hurt to be familiar with some advanced search techniques like using quotes for an exact phrase match, the plus sign to indicate that a search term must be present or a minus sign to indicate not to return any results with that search term, but I agree that search engines today are much smarter than they were when I first started using Yahoo in 1995. Unless what you're searching for is extremely unusual or esoteric, most folks won't need to know the advanced techniques for general use.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Grossoehme
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 1:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read

Good Afternoon;: I will disagree with you 100% here on your search skills. The quotation mark is an automatic with a lot of search engines. You must like Googgle following you to use that search engine. The next thing is the question of what are you going to do it your information is case sensitive and you don't use upper and lower case to find the information. There are times that you could be searching for hours if you don't use all the search tools.

Dave


On 1/4/2021 6:34 PM, Gene wrote:
I don't know if this message is getting too detailed and most of it
should be on the chat list but it may help some or many people.

Regarding well crafted searches, I'm not sure how much of this applied
years ago such as in about 2000, but Google is a consumer product and
is now smart enough to give good results even if ;people don't know
what used to be taught for defining a search in detail. I never use
boolean operators and I almost never use quotation marks. I just type
in a few words what I want to know but people can use full sentences
if they wish. I might search for something like Happiness IS a Warm
Gun lyrics or Happiness Is a Warm Gun Youtube. I might search for
something like list of keyboard commands for Word or Microsoft Word.
My point is that defining a search most of the time is a matter of
typing what you want to know, being aware that if you don't define
something enough, you might have to try again with another word or two
added or changed to get good results. For example, if I type a name
of a song and it’s a common phrase I might see used elsewhere, I might
have to do another search such as name of song then type the name of
the group.

It might be easier to get people who have the Internet skills to
search to do so if it were made clear that searching usually doesn't
involve the more complex methods they may have heard discussed.

As far as the discussion of people doing searches, one approach might
be to distinguish between the two kinds of people who don't search.
there are people who ask lots of
questions over time who have good computer skills and whom I would
have no objection to being expected to do searches. They either
already can or could do good searches generally with a little
instruction.

Then there are those who ask questions off and on and who don't have
good computer skills. Those people I would probably let ask questions
and not make an issue of searching.



Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Gene
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 6:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read

I'm not sure why you didn't find the message. I tried searching for
its beginning one or two ways but then I thought of moving by
separator and I found the start of it immediately below the separator.
. I tried other ways and I got close to the message as well or right
to the message text when I repeated the skip blocs of links command three times.

I wonder if there is something about your browser configuration that
is perhaps interfering with you seeing it?

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Orlando Enrique Fiol via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 6:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read

At 06:31 PM 1/4/2021, Brian Vogel wrote:
First, direct link to the opening message:
https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/80182
Activating that link takes me to a page telling me everything I do and
don't want to know about the original message except the message
itself, with no keyboard-friendly way of navigating to subsequent
messages in the thread. Most email clients have key commands for
previous and next message; if they don't, and have no way to configure
them, you can guess where I chuck them.


Orlando










Re: Using NVDA With Remote!

Kerryn Gunness <k_gunness@...>
 

probably you may need to repeat the process again

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas E Williamson, Senior" <pofm2016@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using NVDA With Remote!


Yes Mam, I did that, but I can not hear anything.
I wonder, if there is an add on that I need to get.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ann Byrne
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 4:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using NVDA With Remote!

If you are set up to control the other computer, remember to press
f11 so you can see/hear it.
At 04:04 PM 1/11/2021, you wrote:
Hello,
When I connect to another's person usin nvda remote, it does not read
on my end, what she hears, on her end?
What might be the problem, why I can not hear, while to he computer?
Thanks for your help!
Regards,
Thomas.















Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

 

On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 04:05 PM, Dave Grossoehme wrote:
I will disagree with you 100% here on your search skills.
-
And you would be wrong, and Gene would be correct.  Virtually everything you describe is not now, and has never been, the case for web searching.  If you are not going about something in "the usual way" you will get unusual results.  And, as Gene has already noted, the ability of search engines to use "fuzzy logic" means that, other than using quoted strings when you want an absolutely exact match (but not case sensitive, in most cases), a natural language question will work if one chooses to use one.

Web searching has only become easier, and far, far more intuitive, over the decades.  And anyone can acquire the basics for doing them with ease.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Use NVDA to help train Speech Recognition?

Sky Mundell
 

I tried that 3 years ago and didn’t get any luck with it. Their used to be a plugin called Dictation Bridge but it doesn’t seem to work with NVDA 2020 or later.

On Jan 11, 2021, at 2:36 PM, Milton Charlton <milton.charlton@...> wrote:

Use NVDA to help train Speech Recognition?

I am trying to help someone start using a Windows computer with speech input and audio output.  They has lost ability to read owing to macular degeneration. The main applications are MS Word, Outlook, Edge and Zoom.
One snag would seem to be training the speech recognition program.  I remember using Dragon about 10 years ago and there was a lengthy training that required reading text to the microphone.  Windows Speech Recognition (WSR) also has training that requires reading text.  WSR depends on the user correcting mistakes properly. I hope the read back function of NVDA will help for that.

Has anyone used NVDA to read out the training text so the user can repeat it verbally to the speech recognition program (WSR)?  I expect this would only work with ear phones on.

I would appreciate information about forums that discuss integration of WSR and NVDA to use Windows Office products. I am aware of Knowbrainer.

Thanks.  This is a great forum!

 

 

 



Use NVDA to help train Speech Recognition?

Milton Charlton
 

Use NVDA to help train Speech Recognition?

I am trying to help someone start using a Windows computer with speech input and audio output.  They has lost ability to read owing to macular degeneration. The main applications are MS Word, Outlook, Edge and Zoom.

One snag would seem to be training the speech recognition program.  I remember using Dragon about 10 years ago and there was a lengthy training that required reading text to the microphone.  Windows Speech Recognition (WSR) also has training that requires reading text.  WSR depends on the user correcting mistakes properly. I hope the read back function of NVDA will help for that.

Has anyone used NVDA to read out the training text so the user can repeat it verbally to the speech recognition program (WSR)?  I expect this would only work with ear phones on.

I would appreciate information about forums that discuss integration of WSR and NVDA to use Windows Office products. I am aware of Knowbrainer.

Thanks.  This is a great forum!

 

 

 


Re: Using NVDA With Remote!

Thomas E Williamson, Senior
 

Yes Mam, I did that, but I can not hear anything.
I wonder, if there is an add on that I need to get.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ann Byrne
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 4:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using NVDA With Remote!

If you are set up to control the other computer, remember to press
f11 so you can see/hear it.
At 04:04 PM 1/11/2021, you wrote:
Hello,
When I connect to another's person usin nvda remote, it does not read
on my end, what she hears, on her end?
What might be the problem, why I can not hear, while to he computer?
Thanks for your help!
Regards,
Thomas.






Re: Using NVDA With Remote!

Ann Byrne
 

If you are set up to control the other computer, remember to press f11 so you can see/hear it.

At 04:04 PM 1/11/2021, you wrote:
Hello,
When I connect to another's person usin nvda remote, it does not read on my end, what she hears, on her end?
What might be the problem, why I can not hear, while to he computer?
Thanks for your help!
Regards,
Thomas.






Using NVDA With Remote!

Thomas E Williamson, Senior
 

Hello,
When I connect to another's person usin nvda remote, it does not read on my end, what she hears, on her end?
What might be the problem, why I can not hear, while to he computer?
Thanks for your help!
Regards,
Thomas.


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Gene
 

You yourself said in an earlier message that you have trouble searching. It may be because you are making searches far too complicated. You can disagree and perhaps you are disaggreeing because searching may have been more complicated in the nineties. But I'm telling you from years of experience with searching well, that your ideas of search are completely wrong. I don't know what you mean about quotation marks being a default in Google. they aren't. Searches are not case sensative by default. You may be able to make a search case sensative, I've never checked but as I said they aren't by default. and it usually doesn't matter. Search engines these days, the sophisticated ones are smart enough to find something without customizing searches with such things as quotation marks and boolean operators. There are rare times when I do a search and I get lots of poor matches when I may use quotation marks. But most of the time, I can search for the name of a book, for example no quotes no anything other than the name and if I want to see reviews, I add the word review or reviews and I almost always get good results. Try it and see. Just write what you want to search for and see what happens.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Grossoehme
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 3:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read

Good Afternoon;: I will disagree with you 100% here on your search
skills. The quotation mark is an automatic with a lot of search
engines. You must like Googgle following you to use that search
engine. The next thing is the question of what are you going to do it
your information is case sensitive and you don't use upper and lower
case to find the information. There are times that you could be
searching for hours if you don't use all the search tools.

Dave


On 1/4/2021 6:34 PM, Gene wrote:
I don't know if this message is getting too detailed and most of it should be on the chat list but it may help some or many people.

Regarding well crafted searches, I'm not sure how much of this applied years ago such as in about 2000, but Google is a consumer product and is now smart enough to give good results even if ;people don't know what used to be taught for defining a search in detail. I never use boolean operators and I almost never use quotation marks. I just type in a few words what I want to know but people can use full sentences if they wish. I might search for something like Happiness IS a Warm Gun lyrics or Happiness Is a Warm Gun Youtube. I might search for something like list of keyboard commands for Word or Microsoft Word. My point is that defining a search most of the time is a matter of typing what you want to know, being aware that if you don't define something enough, you might have to try again with another word or two added or changed to get good results. For example, if I type a name of a song and it’s a common phrase I might see used elsewhere, I might have to do another search such as name of song then type the name of the group.

It might be easier to get people who have the Internet skills to search to do so if it were made clear that searching usually doesn't involve the more complex methods they may have heard discussed.

As far as the discussion of people doing searches, one approach might be to distinguish between the two kinds of people who don't search. there are people who ask lots of
questions over time who have good computer skills and whom I would have no objection to being expected to do searches. They either already can or could do good searches generally with a little instruction.

Then there are those who ask questions off and on and who don't have good computer skills. Those people I would probably let ask questions and not make an issue of searching.



Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Gene
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 6:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read

I'm not sure why you didn't find the message. I tried searching for its
beginning one or two ways but then I thought of moving by separator and I
found the start of it immediately below the separator. . I tried other
ways and I got close to the message as well or right to the message text
when I repeated the skip blocs of links command three times.

I wonder if there is something about your browser configuration that is
perhaps interfering with you seeing it?

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Orlando Enrique Fiol via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 6:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read

At 06:31 PM 1/4/2021, Brian Vogel wrote:
First, direct link to the opening message:
https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/80182
Activating that link takes me to a page telling me everything I do
and don't want to know about the original message except the message
itself, with no keyboard-friendly way of navigating to subsequent
messages in the thread. Most email clients have key commands for
previous and next message; if they don't, and have no way to
configure them, you can guess where I chuck them.


Orlando









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