Date   

Re: Automatic language switching

Mohammed Alderweesh <alderweesh.m@...>
 

Thank you for answering my question. I will try the mentioned addons with the Acapela synthesizer.

Best. 
Mohammed 

On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 6:30 PM tilahun muniye <educationbird@...> wrote:
Hi.
May be the following addon and synthesis help you.

 Dual Voice for NVDA, is an open source speech driver for NVDA screen
reader. This let use two separate voices for reading non-Latin and
Latin languages. This add-on is compatible with SAPI5 (Speech API
version 5) and MSSP (Speech Platform). This NVDA add-on need one
non-Latin and one Latin voices with common interface. Both non-Latin
and Latin voices must have Speech API...

eSpeak: speech synthesis
Text to Speech engine for English and many other languages. Compact
size with clear but artificial pronunciation. Available as a
command-line program with many options, a shared library for Linux,
and a Windows SAPI5 version.
You get them from:https://sourceforge.net/projects/espeak/and
 use eloquence sapi5 for English.


On 1/12/21, Kareen <kareen.kiwan@...> wrote:
> Hi.
> Acapela supports auto switch between English and Arabic. Just visit the
> Acapela sub menu in nvda for auto switch settings.
> Also u can try dual voice addon that does auto switch between latin and none
> latin based languages for Sapi5 TTS engines
>
>
>
>
>
>






Re: How to turn off NVDA

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 


The normal sleep command is insert+shift+s.
To stop NVDA from speaking anywhere press insert+s.Original Message -----

From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2021 3:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

I think I saw discussion long ago about how to have NVDA sleep globally but I don't see one in the quick commands reference.  Perhaps it isn't a command but some other way to achieve this.  I hope someone knowledgeable on the subject discusses this so that we know.  I hope there is a way to achieve universal sleep but I didn't find one.


Gene

On 1/13/2021 4:16 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

I don't think that is what is meant.  I think what is meant is does NVDA affect any program commands or ways of moving in a program compared to when it is not running?  This is generally a concern if you are a sighted user working in browse mode, but it is of little or no concern if you are a blind user.  My understanding is that browse mode changes what is shown on screen and the way you move as a sighted user. 


If the computer is only going to be used by a blind user, I don't think there will be any problems.  If the computer is going to be used both by a blind and sighted users, tthere may be and if there is a universal sleep command that works correctly, given the problem you are describing, that would be the best solution.


Gene

On 1/13/2021 3:33 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

I think what was meant by the keystroke question was can you still use NVDA keystrokes even when NVDA is not "running" - NVDA doesn't prevent program keyboard shortcuts from working, it only adds to them - for instance there are a lot of NVDA keystrokes for getting around the web where there are relatively few when using a browser alone without NVDA.  I am a bit baffled, as if I'm understanding your issue correctly, I've never heard of anyone else with a similar issue, except, as previously mentioned, where a dialog box was left open (which admittedly is a bug on our part, but usually one fairly easy to notice and rectify).

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 7:37 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
I didn't notice any key commands affected by nvda but I did not test every app and keyboard shortcut. If that is the case, then she will definitely switch to Narrator. She is hugely dependent on keyboard shortcuts.
Thanks for the suggestion. I will offer it to her as another workaround to just turn off the voice as long as nvda running in the background does not slow down her work. I have learned quite a bit in trying to troubleshoot this for her. But I am almost ready to call it quits.


From: Robert Doc Wright godfearer [mailto:godfearer@...]
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2021, 3:10 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Is NVDA in anyway affecting the screen or any key commands? I ask because when I need it to be silent I press NVDA+s to turn speech mode off. Then turn it back on with the same command pressing it until I hear 'speech mode talk'.
----- Original Message -----
From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

Definitely not Narrator running. That is purposely set to a different pitch and speed to differentiate. And Narrator shows up in Task Manager and is gone when manually turned off or through Task Manager.

I made sure not to turn on at logon as that was her preference. But even if I did, that should not prevent nvda from being manually turned off and/or auto-launch on its own.

Someone else had mentioned that a NVDA pop-up appears for admin functions like launching aps(?) but not the program itself does not auto-launch. Could something similar be happening here that is triggering the program to auto-launch in full instead of just displaying a pop-up?

I checked throughout Task Manager to see if NVDA is listed anywhere - active apps, background apps, details, startup, etc. The only time it appears in active apps is if there is a dialog or menu displayed. The only time I found it in the background apps is when I selected remind me later option for sending info.

Anything else come to mind that I haven't already tried?



From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that.  The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: more Zoom issues

Sim Kah Yong
 

The latest Zoom Client has solved the problem of not reading out the participants namelist by NVDA.

To update your Zoom Client:

1. Open the Zoom Client.

2. Tab till you land on your zoom account name.

3. Press spacebar

4.  Up arrow till "check for update".

Hope this helps.

On 1/13/2021 8:34 AM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Hi all,
So, since Zoom has come up on the list twice today, I figured I'd
throw in something else. About three weeks ago, someone wrote to the
list saying that NVDA does not read all participants in the list, and
I did quite a bit of testing on this. The last we heard however, was
that it appeared to have been fixed in the latest version of Zoom. I
checked in a call the other day though, and it still acts the same
way. How do I check if there is an update for Zoom to see if this has
in fact been fixed? Zoom hasn't tried to update to my knowledge in
quite some time, though it might happen in the background.
Bob




Re: How to turn off NVDA

Gene
 

I think I saw discussion long ago about how to have NVDA sleep globally but I don't see one in the quick commands reference.  Perhaps it isn't a command but some other way to achieve this.  I hope someone knowledgeable on the subject discusses this so that we know.  I hope there is a way to achieve universal sleep but I didn't find one.


Gene

On 1/13/2021 4:16 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

I don't think that is what is meant.  I think what is meant is does NVDA affect any program commands or ways of moving in a program compared to when it is not running?  This is generally a concern if you are a sighted user working in browse mode, but it is of little or no concern if you are a blind user.  My understanding is that browse mode changes what is shown on screen and the way you move as a sighted user. 


If the computer is only going to be used by a blind user, I don't think there will be any problems.  If the computer is going to be used both by a blind and sighted users, tthere may be and if there is a universal sleep command that works correctly, given the problem you are describing, that would be the best solution.


Gene

On 1/13/2021 3:33 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

I think what was meant by the keystroke question was can you still use NVDA keystrokes even when NVDA is not "running" - NVDA doesn't prevent program keyboard shortcuts from working, it only adds to them - for instance there are a lot of NVDA keystrokes for getting around the web where there are relatively few when using a browser alone without NVDA.  I am a bit baffled, as if I'm understanding your issue correctly, I've never heard of anyone else with a similar issue, except, as previously mentioned, where a dialog box was left open (which admittedly is a bug on our part, but usually one fairly easy to notice and rectify).

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 7:37 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
I didn't notice any key commands affected by nvda but I did not test every app and keyboard shortcut. If that is the case, then she will definitely switch to Narrator. She is hugely dependent on keyboard shortcuts.
Thanks for the suggestion. I will offer it to her as another workaround to just turn off the voice as long as nvda running in the background does not slow down her work. I have learned quite a bit in trying to troubleshoot this for her. But I am almost ready to call it quits.


From: Robert Doc Wright godfearer [mailto:godfearer@...]
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2021, 3:10 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Is NVDA in anyway affecting the screen or any key commands? I ask because when I need it to be silent I press NVDA+s to turn speech mode off. Then turn it back on with the same command pressing it until I hear 'speech mode talk'.
----- Original Message -----
From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

Definitely not Narrator running. That is purposely set to a different pitch and speed to differentiate. And Narrator shows up in Task Manager and is gone when manually turned off or through Task Manager.

I made sure not to turn on at logon as that was her preference. But even if I did, that should not prevent nvda from being manually turned off and/or auto-launch on its own.

Someone else had mentioned that a NVDA pop-up appears for admin functions like launching aps(?) but not the program itself does not auto-launch. Could something similar be happening here that is triggering the program to auto-launch in full instead of just displaying a pop-up?

I checked throughout Task Manager to see if NVDA is listed anywhere - active apps, background apps, details, startup, etc. The only time it appears in active apps is if there is a dialog or menu displayed. The only time I found it in the background apps is when I selected remind me later option for sending info.

Anything else come to mind that I haven't already tried?



From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that.  The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Readig Zoom meeting Chat

Sim Kah Yong
 

NVDA will automatically read the chat when in the main room,, but will not read out in breakout rooms.

A way out of this problem is to keep the chat window open with Alt + H. NVDA will then be able to read the chat.

On 1/13/2021 12:19 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

It auto reads for me, all the time while in a zoom chat. I take a class with over 200 people so it can ge ta bit chatty, but it works.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 12 Jan 2021, at 5:12, Gene wrote:

Yes, but is there a way to have each chat message automatically read when it appears? I don't know but if NVDA doesn't do this, there may be an add-on that will do so.

I just checked and there is an add-on. But I don't know if it automatically reads messages. but it does allow you to turn on or off alerts about such messages. When you get an alert, you will know to check for a new one. That may be of some help.
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/zoomEnhancements.en.html

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 7:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Readig Zoom meeting Chat

Hello,
Alt-H opens the chat area. Here you can write to the room, to individuals and of course you can read the messages, Use Tab and Shift-Tab.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io nvda@nvda.groups.io On Behalf Of AKH AKH
Sent: Dienstag, 12. Januar 2021 12:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Readig Zoom meeting Chat

Hi all

Is it possible for NVDA to read the live Chat messages that meeting participants post during a zoom meeting, please? If so, how?

Andrew


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Gene
 

I don't think that is what is meant.  I think what is meant is does NVDA affect any program commands or ways of moving in a program compared to when it is not running?  This is generally a concern if you are a sighted user working in browse mode, but it is of little or no concern if you are a blind user.  My understanding is that browse mode changes what is shown on screen and the way you move as a sighted user. 


If the computer is only going to be used by a blind user, I don't think there will be any problems.  If the computer is going to be used both by a blind and sighted users, tthere may be and if there is a universal sleep command that works correctly, given the problem you are describing, that would be the best solution.


Gene

On 1/13/2021 3:33 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

I think what was meant by the keystroke question was can you still use NVDA keystrokes even when NVDA is not "running" - NVDA doesn't prevent program keyboard shortcuts from working, it only adds to them - for instance there are a lot of NVDA keystrokes for getting around the web where there are relatively few when using a browser alone without NVDA.  I am a bit baffled, as if I'm understanding your issue correctly, I've never heard of anyone else with a similar issue, except, as previously mentioned, where a dialog box was left open (which admittedly is a bug on our part, but usually one fairly easy to notice and rectify).

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 7:37 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
I didn't notice any key commands affected by nvda but I did not test every app and keyboard shortcut. If that is the case, then she will definitely switch to Narrator. She is hugely dependent on keyboard shortcuts.
Thanks for the suggestion. I will offer it to her as another workaround to just turn off the voice as long as nvda running in the background does not slow down her work. I have learned quite a bit in trying to troubleshoot this for her. But I am almost ready to call it quits.


From: Robert Doc Wright godfearer [mailto:godfearer@...]
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2021, 3:10 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Is NVDA in anyway affecting the screen or any key commands? I ask because when I need it to be silent I press NVDA+s to turn speech mode off. Then turn it back on with the same command pressing it until I hear 'speech mode talk'.
----- Original Message -----
From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

Definitely not Narrator running. That is purposely set to a different pitch and speed to differentiate. And Narrator shows up in Task Manager and is gone when manually turned off or through Task Manager.

I made sure not to turn on at logon as that was her preference. But even if I did, that should not prevent nvda from being manually turned off and/or auto-launch on its own.

Someone else had mentioned that a NVDA pop-up appears for admin functions like launching aps(?) but not the program itself does not auto-launch. Could something similar be happening here that is triggering the program to auto-launch in full instead of just displaying a pop-up?

I checked throughout Task Manager to see if NVDA is listed anywhere - active apps, background apps, details, startup, etc. The only time it appears in active apps is if there is a dialog or menu displayed. The only time I found it in the background apps is when I selected remind me later option for sending info.

Anything else come to mind that I haven't already tried?



From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that.  The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Gene
 

Also, I believe there is a sleep command that makes NVDA sleep until the wake up command is issued. There is a sleep command that puts it to sleep in a specific application but if my memory is correct that there is a global sleep command, that also may solve the problem.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Doc Wright godfearer
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2021 2:10 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Is NVDA in anyway affecting the screen or any key commands? I ask because when I need it to be silent I press NVDA+s to turn speech mode off. Then turn it back on with the same command pressing it until I hear 'speech mode talk'.

----- Original Message -----
From: Food Posse
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

Definitely not Narrator running. That is purposely set to a different pitch and speed to differentiate. And Narrator shows up in Task Manager and is gone when manually turned off or through Task Manager.

I made sure not to turn on at logon as that was her preference. But even if I did, that should not prevent nvda from being manually turned off and/or auto-launch on its own.

Someone else had mentioned that a NVDA pop-up appears for admin functions like launching aps(?) but not the program itself does not auto-launch. Could something similar be happening here that is triggering the program to auto-launch in full instead of just displaying a pop-up?

I checked throughout Task Manager to see if NVDA is listed anywhere - active apps, background apps, details, startup, etc. The only time it appears in active apps is if there is a dialog or menu displayed. The only time I found it in the background apps is when I selected remind me later option for sending info.

Anything else come to mind that I haven't already tried?




From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@nvaccess.org]
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that. The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.


On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@hotmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the good ideas. I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out.

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs. NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without. Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.





From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@gmail.com]
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed. Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine. Completely remove it. Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't. If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10. if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem. I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago. I don't recall if it was resolved or how. Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens. My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen. Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have. Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.













--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Quentin Christensen
 

I think what was meant by the keystroke question was can you still use NVDA keystrokes even when NVDA is not "running" - NVDA doesn't prevent program keyboard shortcuts from working, it only adds to them - for instance there are a lot of NVDA keystrokes for getting around the web where there are relatively few when using a browser alone without NVDA.  I am a bit baffled, as if I'm understanding your issue correctly, I've never heard of anyone else with a similar issue, except, as previously mentioned, where a dialog box was left open (which admittedly is a bug on our part, but usually one fairly easy to notice and rectify).


On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 7:37 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
I didn't notice any key commands affected by nvda but I did not test every app and keyboard shortcut. If that is the case, then she will definitely switch to Narrator. She is hugely dependent on keyboard shortcuts.
Thanks for the suggestion. I will offer it to her as another workaround to just turn off the voice as long as nvda running in the background does not slow down her work. I have learned quite a bit in trying to troubleshoot this for her. But I am almost ready to call it quits.


From: Robert Doc Wright godfearer [mailto:godfearer@...]
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2021, 3:10 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Is NVDA in anyway affecting the screen or any key commands? I ask because when I need it to be silent I press NVDA+s to turn speech mode off. Then turn it back on with the same command pressing it until I hear 'speech mode talk'.
----- Original Message -----
From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

Definitely not Narrator running. That is purposely set to a different pitch and speed to differentiate. And Narrator shows up in Task Manager and is gone when manually turned off or through Task Manager.

I made sure not to turn on at logon as that was her preference. But even if I did, that should not prevent nvda from being manually turned off and/or auto-launch on its own.

Someone else had mentioned that a NVDA pop-up appears for admin functions like launching aps(?) but not the program itself does not auto-launch. Could something similar be happening here that is triggering the program to auto-launch in full instead of just displaying a pop-up?

I checked throughout Task Manager to see if NVDA is listed anywhere - active apps, background apps, details, startup, etc. The only time it appears in active apps is if there is a dialog or menu displayed. The only time I found it in the background apps is when I selected remind me later option for sending info.

Anything else come to mind that I haven't already tried?



From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that.  The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...>
 

I didn't notice any key commands affected by nvda but I did not test every app and keyboard shortcut. If that is the case, then she will definitely switch to Narrator. She is hugely dependent on keyboard shortcuts.
Thanks for the suggestion. I will offer it to her as another workaround to just turn off the voice as long as nvda running in the background does not slow down her work. I have learned quite a bit in trying to troubleshoot this for her. But I am almost ready to call it quits.


From: Robert Doc Wright godfearer [mailto:godfearer@...]
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2021, 3:10 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Is NVDA in anyway affecting the screen or any key commands? I ask because when I need it to be silent I press NVDA+s to turn speech mode off. Then turn it back on with the same command pressing it until I hear 'speech mode talk'.
----- Original Message -----
From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

Definitely not Narrator running. That is purposely set to a different pitch and speed to differentiate. And Narrator shows up in Task Manager and is gone when manually turned off or through Task Manager.

I made sure not to turn on at logon as that was her preference. But even if I did, that should not prevent nvda from being manually turned off and/or auto-launch on its own.

Someone else had mentioned that a NVDA pop-up appears for admin functions like launching aps(?) but not the program itself does not auto-launch. Could something similar be happening here that is triggering the program to auto-launch in full instead of just displaying a pop-up?

I checked throughout Task Manager to see if NVDA is listed anywhere - active apps, background apps, details, startup, etc. The only time it appears in active apps is if there is a dialog or menu displayed. The only time I found it in the background apps is when I selected remind me later option for sending info.

Anything else come to mind that I haven't already tried?



From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that.  The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...>
 

Yes, the expanded detailed view in the task manager is the only way to see the background processes, startup, details, etc. that I had previously checked. Sorry if this was not clear.

I just thought of another place to troubleshoot. If it does not work, I will contact Quentin directly at the email mentioned below unless she is willing to stick with the two profile approach or switch to another program. I will be dropping off this list since this group posts alot but I don't know enough to answer questions and will not be using nvda myself. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions.


From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 11:48 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


As long as you don't have any dialogs open when you press NVDA+Q then enter, NVDA definitely should exit.

Could you send me a copy of your NVDA log please?  Maybe there's something in there.  If you open Windows explorer (WINDOWS+e) then go to %temp% there should be a file called nvda.log, which is the log from the current NVDA session, or the most recent if it is not currently running - and nvda_old.log which is the log from the previous instance.  If you could send me either of those to info@... with a quick explanation I can have a look.

The only other thing I can think to ask - not directly in solving this, but when you say whether NVDA appears as a running process, are you using the expanded task manager view?  When you press CONTROL+SHIFT+ESCAPE, Windows by default loads a small window with minimal information, simply listing the running windows.  If you activate the "More details" button, it shows a much more comprehensive view of every running process.  When I was saying NVDA appears as a running process as long as it is active, it's that expanded view I had in mind.  if you are using the original, minimal view, then NVDA will only appear while there is an NVDA dialog open

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 3:24 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
I did play around with the welcome dialog open and closed as well as menu option displayed or not before invoking the quit feature. The order does not seem to make much of a difference. The exception of the selecting Remind me later option is the only time nvda appears in task manager as a background app and once ended there, it does not auto-launch.

I agree that there may be something actively keeping an instance of nvda open but it is nothing that is obvious. I closed everything within nvda and closed every app that can be manually closed so that there were no active apps showing in task manager but the same thing happens when I opened nvda and tried to quit it. It continues to run as if quit had not been selected.

This is a clean laptop with mainly default settings and just a few downloads. I did not load AVG with the reset. Is it possible that you had previously changed some settings either within the operating system or NVDA that I need to apply? 




From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:57 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I really can't think of anything, actually just make sure you have exited any dialogs before trying to quit NVDA - maybe answer that dialog about sending info one way or the other - if a dialog like that one or the welcome screen is open it appears the quit function doesn't work properly, but as soon as you exit any dialogs you should be able to quit.  I just tried resetting to factory defaults, and if I choose "remind me later" for the send usage statistics question, the dialog disappears and I can quit NVDA.  So the only thing I can think of is if you have an NVDA dialog open.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:50 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Definitely not Narrator running. That is purposely set to a different pitch and speed to differentiate. And Narrator shows up in Task Manager and is gone when manually turned off or through Task Manager.

I made sure not to turn on at logon as that was her preference. But even if I did, that should not prevent nvda from being manually turned off and/or auto-launch on its own.

Someone else had mentioned that a NVDA pop-up appears for admin functions like launching aps(?) but not the program itself does not auto-launch. Could something similar be happening here that is triggering the program to auto-launch in full instead of just displaying a pop-up?

I checked throughout Task Manager to see if NVDA is listed anywhere - active apps, background apps, details, startup, etc. The only time it appears in active apps is if there is a dialog or menu displayed. The only time I found it in the background apps is when I selected remind me later option for sending info.

Anything else come to mind that I haven't already tried?



From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that.  The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 


Is NVDA in anyway affecting the screen or any key commands? I ask because when I need it to be silent I press NVDA+s to turn speech mode off. Then turn it back on with the same command pressing it until I hear 'speech mode talk'.

----- Original Message -----
From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

Definitely not Narrator running. That is purposely set to a different pitch and speed to differentiate. And Narrator shows up in Task Manager and is gone when manually turned off or through Task Manager.

I made sure not to turn on at logon as that was her preference. But even if I did, that should not prevent nvda from being manually turned off and/or auto-launch on its own.

Someone else had mentioned that a NVDA pop-up appears for admin functions like launching aps(?) but not the program itself does not auto-launch. Could something similar be happening here that is triggering the program to auto-launch in full instead of just displaying a pop-up?

I checked throughout Task Manager to see if NVDA is listed anywhere - active apps, background apps, details, startup, etc. The only time it appears in active apps is if there is a dialog or menu displayed. The only time I found it in the background apps is when I selected remind me later option for sending info.

Anything else come to mind that I haven't already tried?



From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that.  The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 


quentin, is there a way to turn the welcome screen back on?

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that.  The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 


the one thing I noticed is that you said that the welcome screen appears. there is a checkbox in that dialog that allows you to disable the welcome screen.  Though I am puzzled that you say NVDA is not showing in your processes.
it shows in background for me. I even tested it by quitting NVDA , turning on jaws and NVDA was no where to be found.
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.









Re: How to turn off NVDA

Quentin Christensen
 

As long as you don't have any dialogs open when you press NVDA+Q then enter, NVDA definitely should exit.

Could you send me a copy of your NVDA log please?  Maybe there's something in there.  If you open Windows explorer (WINDOWS+e) then go to %temp% there should be a file called nvda.log, which is the log from the current NVDA session, or the most recent if it is not currently running - and nvda_old.log which is the log from the previous instance.  If you could send me either of those to info@... with a quick explanation I can have a look.

The only other thing I can think to ask - not directly in solving this, but when you say whether NVDA appears as a running process, are you using the expanded task manager view?  When you press CONTROL+SHIFT+ESCAPE, Windows by default loads a small window with minimal information, simply listing the running windows.  If you activate the "More details" button, it shows a much more comprehensive view of every running process.  When I was saying NVDA appears as a running process as long as it is active, it's that expanded view I had in mind.  if you are using the original, minimal view, then NVDA will only appear while there is an NVDA dialog open

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 3:24 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
I did play around with the welcome dialog open and closed as well as menu option displayed or not before invoking the quit feature. The order does not seem to make much of a difference. The exception of the selecting Remind me later option is the only time nvda appears in task manager as a background app and once ended there, it does not auto-launch.

I agree that there may be something actively keeping an instance of nvda open but it is nothing that is obvious. I closed everything within nvda and closed every app that can be manually closed so that there were no active apps showing in task manager but the same thing happens when I opened nvda and tried to quit it. It continues to run as if quit had not been selected.

This is a clean laptop with mainly default settings and just a few downloads. I did not load AVG with the reset. Is it possible that you had previously changed some settings either within the operating system or NVDA that I need to apply? 




From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:57 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I really can't think of anything, actually just make sure you have exited any dialogs before trying to quit NVDA - maybe answer that dialog about sending info one way or the other - if a dialog like that one or the welcome screen is open it appears the quit function doesn't work properly, but as soon as you exit any dialogs you should be able to quit.  I just tried resetting to factory defaults, and if I choose "remind me later" for the send usage statistics question, the dialog disappears and I can quit NVDA.  So the only thing I can think of is if you have an NVDA dialog open.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:50 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Definitely not Narrator running. That is purposely set to a different pitch and speed to differentiate. And Narrator shows up in Task Manager and is gone when manually turned off or through Task Manager.

I made sure not to turn on at logon as that was her preference. But even if I did, that should not prevent nvda from being manually turned off and/or auto-launch on its own.

Someone else had mentioned that a NVDA pop-up appears for admin functions like launching aps(?) but not the program itself does not auto-launch. Could something similar be happening here that is triggering the program to auto-launch in full instead of just displaying a pop-up?

I checked throughout Task Manager to see if NVDA is listed anywhere - active apps, background apps, details, startup, etc. The only time it appears in active apps is if there is a dialog or menu displayed. The only time I found it in the background apps is when I selected remind me later option for sending info.

Anything else come to mind that I haven't already tried?



From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that.  The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...>
 

I did play around with the welcome dialog open and closed as well as menu option displayed or not before invoking the quit feature. The order does not seem to make much of a difference. The exception of the selecting Remind me later option is the only time nvda appears in task manager as a background app and once ended there, it does not auto-launch.

I agree that there may be something actively keeping an instance of nvda open but it is nothing that is obvious. I closed everything within nvda and closed every app that can be manually closed so that there were no active apps showing in task manager but the same thing happens when I opened nvda and tried to quit it. It continues to run as if quit had not been selected.

This is a clean laptop with mainly default settings and just a few downloads. I did not load AVG with the reset. Is it possible that you had previously changed some settings either within the operating system or NVDA that I need to apply? 




From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:57 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I really can't think of anything, actually just make sure you have exited any dialogs before trying to quit NVDA - maybe answer that dialog about sending info one way or the other - if a dialog like that one or the welcome screen is open it appears the quit function doesn't work properly, but as soon as you exit any dialogs you should be able to quit.  I just tried resetting to factory defaults, and if I choose "remind me later" for the send usage statistics question, the dialog disappears and I can quit NVDA.  So the only thing I can think of is if you have an NVDA dialog open.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:50 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Definitely not Narrator running. That is purposely set to a different pitch and speed to differentiate. And Narrator shows up in Task Manager and is gone when manually turned off or through Task Manager.

I made sure not to turn on at logon as that was her preference. But even if I did, that should not prevent nvda from being manually turned off and/or auto-launch on its own.

Someone else had mentioned that a NVDA pop-up appears for admin functions like launching aps(?) but not the program itself does not auto-launch. Could something similar be happening here that is triggering the program to auto-launch in full instead of just displaying a pop-up?

I checked throughout Task Manager to see if NVDA is listed anywhere - active apps, background apps, details, startup, etc. The only time it appears in active apps is if there is a dialog or menu displayed. The only time I found it in the background apps is when I selected remind me later option for sending info.

Anything else come to mind that I haven't already tried?



From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that.  The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Ctrl+Alt+N in Google Docs

Sascha Cowley
 

the set of shortcuts you can use from within browser is very limited

This should really say "the set of shortcuts you should use from within browser is very limited". Technically, they could use almost any keyboard shortcuts, apart from system keyboard shortcuts, they just don't, because that would stop people from being able to access their browser. That is why, for example, their menus are all accessed with Alt+Shift+<letter>.

On 2021-01-13 12:55, Tony Malykh wrote:
I think in theory it might be possible to write an add-on that sends Control+ALt+N keystroke directly to the browser window bypassing Windows. NVDA+F2 is not using this way though as others explained.

But the bigger problem I see here is that all the shortcuts in Google Docs are inconvenient to put it mildly. Google essentially had to implement their own screenreader in browser. And they were bound to use inconvenient set of shortcuts because the set of shortcuts you can use from within browser is very limited. I wish there was an interface similar to IAccessible2 or UIA to let NVDA to communicate with google docs directly inside the browser. But I think creating such an API would require long collaboration between NVAccess and Google. And it doesn't seem plausible that this is going to happen for just a single product. Sigh.

On 1/12/2021 4:01 PM, Bhavya shah wrote:
Dear all,

Google Docs has a number of keyboard shortcuts requiring Ctrl+Alt+N to
be pressed. You may have guessed where I am going with this, but here
are a few specific remarks in this context:
* I press NVDA+F2 so that the next keyboard shortcut I press goes
straight to Google Docs without the interference of NVDA. That doesn't
work and NVDA+F2 followed by Ctrl+Alt+N still restarts NVDA. I
understand why this edge case might have been missed, but I was
wondering if this this issue has already been documented on the GitHub
tracker?
* I realize that I can just alter the hot key to launch NVDA from the
Properties dialog corresponding to the NVDA Desktop icon for instance.
But is there any cleaner alternative approach to this problem?

I would greatly appreciate any assistance with the above.

Thanks.







Re: How to turn off NVDA

Quentin Christensen
 

I really can't think of anything, actually just make sure you have exited any dialogs before trying to quit NVDA - maybe answer that dialog about sending info one way or the other - if a dialog like that one or the welcome screen is open it appears the quit function doesn't work properly, but as soon as you exit any dialogs you should be able to quit.  I just tried resetting to factory defaults, and if I choose "remind me later" for the send usage statistics question, the dialog disappears and I can quit NVDA.  So the only thing I can think of is if you have an NVDA dialog open.


On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:50 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Definitely not Narrator running. That is purposely set to a different pitch and speed to differentiate. And Narrator shows up in Task Manager and is gone when manually turned off or through Task Manager.

I made sure not to turn on at logon as that was her preference. But even if I did, that should not prevent nvda from being manually turned off and/or auto-launch on its own.

Someone else had mentioned that a NVDA pop-up appears for admin functions like launching aps(?) but not the program itself does not auto-launch. Could something similar be happening here that is triggering the program to auto-launch in full instead of just displaying a pop-up?

I checked throughout Task Manager to see if NVDA is listed anywhere - active apps, background apps, details, startup, etc. The only time it appears in active apps is if there is a dialog or menu displayed. The only time I found it in the background apps is when I selected remind me later option for sending info.

Anything else come to mind that I haven't already tried?



From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that.  The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...>
 

Definitely not Narrator running. That is purposely set to a different pitch and speed to differentiate. And Narrator shows up in Task Manager and is gone when manually turned off or through Task Manager.

I made sure not to turn on at logon as that was her preference. But even if I did, that should not prevent nvda from being manually turned off and/or auto-launch on its own.

Someone else had mentioned that a NVDA pop-up appears for admin functions like launching aps(?) but not the program itself does not auto-launch. Could something similar be happening here that is triggering the program to auto-launch in full instead of just displaying a pop-up?

I checked throughout Task Manager to see if NVDA is listed anywhere - active apps, background apps, details, startup, etc. The only time it appears in active apps is if there is a dialog or menu displayed. The only time I found it in the background apps is when I selected remind me later option for sending info.

Anything else come to mind that I haven't already tried?



From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that.  The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Quentin Christensen
 

Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that.  The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Gene
 

This question is for those with the technical knowledge to answer the question. Is there some configuration of Windows where NVDA will run like a phone app that never closes? Do apps, not applications, close in Windows 10 or do they stay opened as it is my understanding phone apps do. I' wonder if something needs configuring in Windows 10.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 9:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Thanks for the good ideas. I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out.

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs. NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without. Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.





From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@gmail.com]
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed. Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine. Completely remove it. Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't. If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10. if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem. I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago. I don't recall if it was resolved or how. Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens. My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen. Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have. Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.

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