Date   

Re: Thunderbird will become a webbased application - What about accessibility?

Hope Williamson
 

Well, most email can be done via the web anyway. I agree that
Thunderbird is more efficient, but I didn't start using it until 2017. I
used web-based interfaces from 2003 until then.

On 2/8/2021 6:46 AM, Chris Smart wrote:
True, and that is one reason why I eventually left Eudora.



On 2021-02-08 9:45 a.m., zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz wrote:
You need to have the newest versions nowadays, because of the security.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Smart
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 3:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird will become a webbased application -
What about accessibility?

Another thought:

Why does anyone need to use the very latest version of Thunderbird,
if an older one still works just fine?


This is a ridiculous example, but I held on to Eudora 7 for almost a
decade, and only switched to Thunderbird in the past year. Why? Because
it still worked under Windows 10.

Perhaps that won't be possible this time around, but other than security
concerns, or the way email works being changed in a fundamental way, I
can't see much changing in how we create, send, and receive email any
time soon. Email is very very old.


On 2021-02-08 5:37 a.m., Christian Schoepplein wrote:
Hi,

regarding to a presentation at FOSDEM 2021 it is planed to make
Thunderbird more and more a webbased application based on Electron.

I wonder what that means regarding to accessibility in Thunderbird in
general and what other free graphical mailer will be available for
Windows if Thunderbird might become inaccessible or at least very
inefficient regarding to useability when it is a full webbased program.

Is anyone in touch with the Thunderbird developers and can find out
more about their plans and how much they will have accessibility in
mind?

I fear they do not care much about accessibility, so the next question
is what can we do to bring this isue more into the public?

It would be really sad to loose the only really free and good to use
graphical mailer for Windows. AFAIK there are not much alternatives
left then, which is a real shame for such a central and important form
of communication for blind people, especialy in this very challenging
times :-(.

Cheers,

   Schoepp















Re: Thunderbird will become a webbased application - What about accessibility?

Chris Smart
 

Why not wait and see how things turn out?

On 2021-02-08 10:25 a.m., Roger Stewart wrote:
Guess I'll be looking for another email program soon.  Too bad as Thunderbird has worked great with nvda for many years.
Roger








On 2/8/2021 5:40 AM, William wrote:
Oh, I am sad about this news.


Christian Schoepplein 於 8/2/2021 18:37 寫道:
Hi,

regarding to a presentation at FOSDEM 2021 it is planed to make Thunderbird more and more a webbased application based on Electron.

I wonder what that means regarding to accessibility in Thunderbird in general and what other free graphical mailer will be available for Windows if Thunderbird might become inaccessible or at least very inefficient regarding to useability when it is a full webbased program.

Is anyone in touch with the Thunderbird developers and can find out more about their plans and how much they will have accessibility in mind?

I fear they do not care much about accessibility, so the next question is what can we do to bring this isue more into the public?

It would be really sad to loose the only really free and good to use graphical mailer for Windows. AFAIK there are not much alternatives left then, which is a real shame for such a central and important form of communication for blind people, especialy in this very challenging times :-(.

Cheers,

  Schoepp








.





Re: Thunderbird will become a webbased application - What about accessibility?

Roger Stewart
 

Guess I'll be looking for another email program soon.  Too bad as Thunderbird has worked great with nvda for many years.
Roger

On 2/8/2021 5:40 AM, William wrote:
Oh, I am sad about this news.


Christian Schoepplein 於 8/2/2021 18:37 寫道:
Hi,

regarding to a presentation at FOSDEM 2021 it is planed to make Thunderbird more and more a webbased application based on Electron.

I wonder what that means regarding to accessibility in Thunderbird in general and what other free graphical mailer will be available for Windows if Thunderbird might become inaccessible or at least very inefficient regarding to useability when it is a full webbased program.

Is anyone in touch with the Thunderbird developers and can find out more about their plans and how much they will have accessibility in mind?

I fear they do not care much about accessibility, so the next question is what can we do to bring this isue more into the public?

It would be really sad to loose the only really free and good to use graphical mailer for Windows. AFAIK there are not much alternatives left then, which is a real shame for such a central and important form of communication for blind people, especialy in this very challenging times :-(.

Cheers,

  Schoepp







.


Re: Thunderbird will become a webbased application - What about accessibility?

 

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 09:45 AM, zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz wrote:
You need to have the newest versions nowadays, because of the security.
-
I'd say that this is now the first and foremost reason to keep up-to-date on the latest releases of the software (including operating systems, and/or patches to same) that you use.

This was not always the case, but things have definitely changed to make security a much more important consideration than it once was.  The increase in frequency of hacking of all sorts has increased astronomically over time.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Thunderbird will become a webbased application - What about accessibility?

Chris Smart
 

True, and that is one reason why I eventually left Eudora.

On 2021-02-08 9:45 a.m., zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz wrote:
You need to have the newest versions nowadays, because of the security.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Smart
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 3:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird will become a webbased application - What about accessibility?

Another thought:

Why does anyone need to use the very latest version of Thunderbird, if an older one still works just fine?


This is a ridiculous example, but I held on to Eudora 7 for almost a
decade, and only switched to Thunderbird in the past year. Why? Because
it still worked under Windows 10.

Perhaps that won't be possible this time around, but other than security
concerns, or the way email works being changed in a fundamental way, I
can't see much changing in how we create, send, and receive email any
time soon. Email is very very old.


On 2021-02-08 5:37 a.m., Christian Schoepplein wrote:
Hi,

regarding to a presentation at FOSDEM 2021 it is planed to make
Thunderbird more and more a webbased application based on Electron.

I wonder what that means regarding to accessibility in Thunderbird in
general and what other free graphical mailer will be available for
Windows if Thunderbird might become inaccessible or at least very
inefficient regarding to useability when it is a full webbased program.

Is anyone in touch with the Thunderbird developers and can find out
more about their plans and how much they will have accessibility in mind?

I fear they do not care much about accessibility, so the next question
is what can we do to bring this isue more into the public?

It would be really sad to loose the only really free and good to use
graphical mailer for Windows. AFAIK there are not much alternatives
left then, which is a real shame for such a central and important form
of communication for blind people, especialy in this very challenging
times :-(.

Cheers,

Schoepp












Re: When will the next NVDA be released?

 

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 05:35 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
we'd alway rather push back a release and put out something which is stable, than push out something just to meet an arbitrary deadline.
-
A fact for which every blessed NVDA user should be eternally grateful!!

This incredibly wise approach is something that's very seldom adhered to in the world of software, and to damaging results, not only for accessibility.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Thunderbird will become a webbased application - What about accessibility?

zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz
 

You need to have the newest versions nowadays, because of the security.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Smart
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 3:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird will become a webbased application - What about accessibility?

Another thought:

Why does anyone need to use the very latest version of Thunderbird, if an older one still works just fine?


This is a ridiculous example, but I held on to Eudora 7 for almost a
decade, and only switched to Thunderbird in the past year. Why? Because
it still worked under Windows 10.

Perhaps that won't be possible this time around, but other than security
concerns, or the way email works being changed in a fundamental way, I
can't see much changing in how we create, send, and receive email any
time soon. Email is very very old.


On 2021-02-08 5:37 a.m., Christian Schoepplein wrote:
Hi,

regarding to a presentation at FOSDEM 2021 it is planed to make
Thunderbird more and more a webbased application based on Electron.

I wonder what that means regarding to accessibility in Thunderbird in
general and what other free graphical mailer will be available for
Windows if Thunderbird might become inaccessible or at least very
inefficient regarding to useability when it is a full webbased program.

Is anyone in touch with the Thunderbird developers and can find out
more about their plans and how much they will have accessibility in mind?

I fear they do not care much about accessibility, so the next question
is what can we do to bring this isue more into the public?

It would be really sad to loose the only really free and good to use
graphical mailer for Windows. AFAIK there are not much alternatives
left then, which is a real shame for such a central and important form
of communication for blind people, especialy in this very challenging
times :-(.

Cheers,

Schoepp





Re: Thunderbird will become a webbased application - What about accessibility?

Chris Smart
 

Another thought:

Why does anyone need to use the very latest version of Thunderbird, if an older one still works just fine?


This is a ridiculous example, but I held on to Eudora 7 for almost a decade, and only switched to Thunderbird in the past year. Why? Because it still worked under Windows 10.

Perhaps that won't be possible this time around, but other than security concerns, or the way email works being changed in a fundamental way, I can't see much changing in how we create, send, and receive email any time soon. Email is very very old.

On 2021-02-08 5:37 a.m., Christian Schoepplein wrote:
Hi,

regarding to a presentation at FOSDEM 2021 it is planed to make Thunderbird more and more a webbased application based on Electron.

I wonder what that means regarding to accessibility in Thunderbird in general and what other free graphical mailer will be available for Windows if Thunderbird might become inaccessible or at least very inefficient regarding to useability when it is a full webbased program.

Is anyone in touch with the Thunderbird developers and can find out more about their plans and how much they will have accessibility in mind?

I fear they do not care much about accessibility, so the next question is what can we do to bring this isue more into the public?

It would be really sad to loose the only really free and good to use graphical mailer for Windows. AFAIK there are not much alternatives left then, which is a real shame for such a central and important form of communication for blind people, especialy in this very challenging times :-(.

Cheers,

  Schoepp




Re: Thunderbird will become a webbased application - What about accessibility?

 

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 05:37 AM, Christian Schoepplein wrote:
I wonder what that means regarding to accessibility in Thunderbird
-
I can't imagine why, given Mozilla's track record, that anything they code would not be accessible (with the occasional bobble).

The conventions for accessible web coding are very well known, and supported by every screen reader I'm aware of.  It's not that web applications cannot be accessible, it's that many are not coded with any consideration given to accessibility.

Provided any web coder is not determined to use "the very latest and greatest" new coding, which is far less likely on an email client than other things, I see no reason why it would not be entirely accessible.  Only time will tell, though.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Thunderbird will become a webbased application - What about accessibility?

Chris Smart
 

You said:

"I fear they do not care much about accessibility,"


By "they" I assume you mean Mozilla. Since I'm able to use both their browser and their email client successfully, I'd say they are at least aware of our needs, if not actively working towards meeting them.


Maybe don't suggest the sky is falling just yet, until we know more. (grin)


Re: Thunderbird will become a webbased application - What about accessibility?

Christian Schoepplein
 

Hi,

Am 08.02.2021 um 11:37 schrieb Christian Schoepplein:
regarding to a presentation at FOSDEM 2021 it is planed to make Thunderbird more and more a webbased application based on Electron.
Sorry, that information was not corect. Thunderbird will be based more and more on ES6-javascript/HTML5. No idea if that makes things better or worse. I think future releases will show and Thunderbird 91, which will be released this summer, will be the first release where the main parts of the UI will be based on this code. ES6-javascript/HTML5 is already in use in Thunderbird, the settings dialog is based on this.

Cheers,

Schoepp


Tech VB podcast: In-depth interview with NVDA contributor Joseph Lee

Lauren Burger
 

Hello.  My name is Lauren. I am interested in the Tech VB podcast with the interview. I tried to get into the site where the podcast is and there is a problem with my firewall and it is blocked. Is there something I can do to get on and listen to the podcast?  Please let me know.  Thank you for your consideration.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


NVDA and photo viewer on facebook

Dejan Ristic
 

Hi,


When I open the photo viewer on FB to view images, I'm no longer able to find 'Previous' and 'Next' buttons to go backward and/or forward to view images. When the new facebook look was made public it worked for me smoothly.


The other buttons (close, tag friends, exit fullscreen) work correctly


When I happen to press F5 to reload the page while in the photo viewer area, NVDA reads the missing buttons, which implies that they exist somewhere on the screen, but I'm unable to find them when arrowing and/or tabbing neither in browse nor in focus mode.


I use Google Chrome and NVDA being latest stable.


As for facebook, I use the standard one (www.facebook.com).


Cheers,

Dejan


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Re: Thunderbird will become a webbased application - What about accessibility?

William
 

Oh, I am sad about this news.


Christian Schoepplein 於 8/2/2021 18:37 寫道:

Hi,

regarding to a presentation at FOSDEM 2021 it is planed to make Thunderbird more and more a webbased application based on Electron.

I wonder what that means regarding to accessibility in Thunderbird in general and what other free graphical mailer will be available for Windows if Thunderbird might become inaccessible or at least very inefficient regarding to useability when it is a full webbased program.

Is anyone in touch with the Thunderbird developers and can find out more about their plans and how much they will have accessibility in mind?

I fear they do not care much about accessibility, so the next question is what can we do to bring this isue more into the public?

It would be really sad to loose the only really free and good to use graphical mailer for Windows. AFAIK there are not much alternatives left then, which is a real shame for such a central and important form of communication for blind people, especialy in this very challenging times :-(.

Cheers,

  Schoepp




Thunderbird will become a webbased application - What about accessibility?

Christian Schoepplein
 

Hi,

regarding to a presentation at FOSDEM 2021 it is planed to make Thunderbird more and more a webbased application based on Electron.

I wonder what that means regarding to accessibility in Thunderbird in general and what other free graphical mailer will be available for Windows if Thunderbird might become inaccessible or at least very inefficient regarding to useability when it is a full webbased program.

Is anyone in touch with the Thunderbird developers and can find out more about their plans and how much they will have accessibility in mind?

I fear they do not care much about accessibility, so the next question is what can we do to bring this isue more into the public?

It would be really sad to loose the only really free and good to use graphical mailer for Windows. AFAIK there are not much alternatives left then, which is a real shame for such a central and important form of communication for blind people, especialy in this very challenging times :-(.

Cheers,

Schoepp


Re: When will the next NVDA be released?

Quentin Christensen
 

And just to reply to the original questions - it has been awhile between releases - partly because we didn't want to rush things over Christmas, so that delayed things, and also there were a couple of niggly bugs we wanted to fix with languages before going to the final release - we'd alway rather push back a release and put out something which is stable, than push out something just to meet an arbitrary deadline.  The suggestion to follow In-process is definitely worthwhile to keep up to date with what we're up to: https://www.nvaccess.org/category/in-process/

As noted, the release candidate came out today, and you can read more and download it here: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2020-4rc1/

Unless anyone finds any major issues with it, then the final NVDA 2020.4 should be out within the next couple of weeks.

Oh, and yes our finances are sound, we're not about to disappear anytime soon :)  Thank you for your interest, and for your donation, it is very much appreciated!

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 8:22 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I should add that I'm not using recent versions.  I wrote my comment because
I couldn't tell where you were looking.  But my guess is that it isn't there
since you used it in the past.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2021 3:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] When will the next NVDA be released?

Where are you looking?  Check for updates isn't on the main menu.  Its where
such things usually are, in the help submenu.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: John J. Boyer
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2021 2:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] When will the next NVDA be released?

Hello,

It's been a long time since there was an official release of NVDA that is
available with the Check for Updates on the NVDA menu. Is there a problem?
Is nv-access short of funds? I made a donation recently.

Thanks,
John

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@...
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses  live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM
services
        that are available at no cost

















--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


NVDA 2020.4 Release Candidate now available

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi everyone

NVDA 2020.4rc1 has been released. This is a release candidate, and unless any critical issues are found, this will be identical to the 2020.4 release.

Highlights and download links can be found in the release blog post at: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2020-4rc1/

We encourage ALL users to download and install this release candidate, and if you do encounter any issues, please do let us know.

Kind regards

Quentin.
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: When will the next NVDA be released?

Gene
 

I should add that I'm not using recent versions. I wrote my comment because I couldn't tell where you were looking. But my guess is that it isn't there since you used it in the past.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2021 3:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] When will the next NVDA be released?

Where are you looking? Check for updates isn't on the main menu. Its where
such things usually are, in the help submenu.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: John J. Boyer
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2021 2:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] When will the next NVDA be released?

Hello,

It's been a long time since there was an official release of NVDA that is
available with the Check for Updates on the NVDA menu. Is there a problem?
Is nv-access short of funds? I made a donation recently.

Thanks,
John

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM
services
that are available at no cost


Re: When will the next NVDA be released?

Gene
 

Where are you looking? Check for updates isn't on the main menu. Its where such things usually are, in the help submenu.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: John J. Boyer
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2021 2:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] When will the next NVDA be released?

Hello,

It's been a long time since there was an official release of NVDA that is available with the Check for Updates on the NVDA menu. Is there a problem?
Is nv-access short of funds? I made a donation recently.

Thanks,
John

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
that are available at no cost


Re: When will the next NVDA be released?

mcLeod stinnett
 

--
from mack they have a monthly update called in process. it doesn't take long to read and it keeps readers informed of the next release progress. when everyone gets the email that says "in process is out" be sure and read it.

8701 - 8720 of 90190