Date   

NVDA 2021.1

Sky Mundell
 

Hello list. Now that NVDA 2020.4 has been released, what is the current
status on NVDA 2021.1? Is it being worked on? Thanks, Sky.


Re: Moving down in a console

nicolas.vespoli
 

Hi, try pressing numpad 9.


Moving down in a console

John J. Boyer
 

Hello,

Suppose I have a cmd console and I do a dir to get a list of files. I can press numpad 7 to go to the top. Now I would like to read the next line down.
Pressing the advance button on my Braille display doesn't do it. What is the keystroke that does?

Thanks,
John

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
that are available at no cost


Re: a possible problem with combo boxes and latest NVDA

 

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 12:58 PM, Jonathan COHN wrote:
In summary, if Kroger Web developers slightly change the behaviors of their dropdown it will be a lot easier for keyboard only and screen reader users to use it.
-
And I thank you for this contribution because it is a direct example of the more general situation where exactly how a web page is coded can have accessibility ramifications that differ between browsers and/or screen readers.

For combo boxes, you'd think that by now there would be The One, True Way of coding them, but there isn't.  And the newer a web object is, and they keep being invented, the less likely it is that any de facto standard for coding exists and different screen readers make different guesses the best they can.

That's why having a secondary screen reader that you're basically familiar with really is a vital tool in the toolbox.  You don't have to be able to be as proficient with all aspects as you are with your favorite one, but knowing how to navigate a webpage doesn't entail that level of proficiency, and can sometimes get you out of a jam.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


Re: a possible problem with combo boxes and latest NVDA

Jonathan COHN
 

This is a fairly common issue with folks that don't understand accessibility implications. They have coded the dropdown to perform actions when selection changes. Both JAWS and NVDA along with the browser developers created the alt-down keystroke that opens the list of choices, but doesn't actually "select" any of them until the list is closed again. I have forgotten what the proper event is to use to process the combo box it might be "onChange". 
In summary, if Kroger Web developers slightly change the behaviors of their dropdown it will be a lot easier for keyboard only and screen reader users to use it. On the other hand, the Auto Fill for Chrome and Firefox can often handle selecting the correct state for you in their autofill features.


Jonathan Cohn

On Mar 3, 2021, at 12:08, Dan Beaver <dbeaver888@...> wrote:

Ok, it looks like pressing alt+down arrow opens the combo box and I can move through it using either the cursor or first letter navigation.  I am certain I tried this before but it works now.


If I use either of the other methods it still hoses up though.  This is sure weird.


Thanks.


Dan Beaver

On 3/3/2021 11:05 AM, Andre Fisher wrote:
Hi.

Have you tried Alt+Down arrow when you've reached the combo box, then pressing Enter on your desired option? Try that and report back.
-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Re: a possible problem with combo boxes and latest NVDA

Dan Beaver
 

Ok, it looks like pressing alt+down arrow opens the combo box and I can move through it using either the cursor or first letter navigation.  I am certain I tried this before but it works now.


If I use either of the other methods it still hoses up though.  This is sure weird.


Thanks.


Dan Beaver

On 3/3/2021 11:05 AM, Andre Fisher wrote:
Hi.

Have you tried Alt+Down arrow when you've reached the combo box, then pressing Enter on your desired option? Try that and report back.
-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Re: a possible problem with combo boxes and latest NVDA

Andre Fisher
 

Hi.

Have you tried Alt+Down arrow when you've reached the combo box, then pressing Enter on your desired option? Try that and report back.


Re: a possible problem with combo boxes and latest NVDA

 

I can't tell you what the root cause of the issue is, but I'm not having it, provided I arrow in to the combo box options after expanding before I use first letter nav.

In the case of the states listed, once I've arrowed in, using the letter K in that combo box keeps bouncing me between KS and KY.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


a possible problem with combo boxes and latest NVDA

Dan Beaver
 

I am running the latest version of NVDA production. I am trying to register for Kovid-19 vaccine on the Kroger.com site.  They use combo boxes to gather some info like the state I live in and the vaccine center I live closest to. 


I am having this issue on both Firefox and Chrome.


When I open the combo boxes and press the letter K for KY it jumps to KS for Kansas.  This is to be expected.  Then it also locks the combo box and will not allow any other movement in the combo box.  I can't move to any other states.  It acts as though I selected KS and then exited from the combo box. 


My sighted wife has tried it with NVDA turned off and it works just fine for her.  She can type a K and sees KS, she can then press K again and it changes to KY.


Other combo boxes work correctly for her as well.


I am currently unable to effectively use any combo boxes.


Any ideas if this is an NVDA issue or something else?


Thanks.



-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Re: strange reverting issue on a restart

Luke Davis
 

Do you have any configuration profiles?

To check, press NVDA+n, c, and then use your arrow keys to navigate the list of configured profiles.

I'm wondering if you have a profile, and what you think you are saving in the main profile, is actually being saved in something else.

Luke

On Tue, 2 Mar 2021, ken lawrence via groups.io wrote:

Hi group a strange thing has happened the last couple days on NVDA while most of my settings are in tact, every time I restart my computer for the day, the
punctuation/symbol level somehow reverts to most where I have it on some to cut down on the verbiage.  I reset it in speech settings but the next day it’s
back.  I have doublechecked to make sure save configuration on exit is checked and if NVDA is exited and restarted it’s fine but with the computer
restarting that punctuation level changes back to most.  I also see mouse tracking is on when the computer is restarted.  This has happened for the last
couple day.  Any thought on why?


Re: strange reverting issue on a restart

Quentin Christensen
 

Following on from Chris' suggestion, if you setup the symbol level etc how you want it, then press NDVA+control+c, or choose "Save configuration" from the NVDA menu, when you restart the computer are the settings how you saved them, or reverted?

If you have NVDA set to save settings on exit, and that's what it should be doing (unless it crashes badly or something - in which case we want to address why THAT happened).

If you want to troubleshoot a little more, could you please set your log level to debug, change the settings, restart the computer, confirm the settings are reverted next time you start NVDA, and send me the log files?  (NVDA keeps two - one for the current or most recent instance, and one for the time before.  It should indicate if NVDA had a problem saving the settings.

First of all, your NVDA key is either INSERT or CAPS LOCK, depending on how you have NVDA setup.  So, to set your log level:
1) Press NVDA+control+g to open the general settings
2) Press TAB until the focus is on 'Log level'
3) Press DOWN ARROW to get to 'Debug'
4) Press ENTER to close settings
5) Press NVDA+control+c to save settings.

To restart NVDA with add-ons disabled:
1) Press NVDA+Q
2) Down arrow to 'Restart with add-ons disabled'
3) Press ENTER

Next, recreate the issue - do whatever causes problems.

To get NVDA's log after that, there are several ways:

If NVDA is still running and usable:
1) Press NVDA+F1 to open the log viewer
2) Press CONTROL+A to select all.
3) Press CONTROL+C to copy.
4) Open your email and start a message to info@..., type a little about what you have done and what has happened in the body of the message, then leave a space and:
5) Press CONTROL+V to paste the copied log.

Instead of using the log viewer, or if NVDA has stopped and you needed to restart it or the computer:
1) Press WINDOWS+R to open Windows' Run dialog
2) Type %temp% and press ENTER (that's the percent sign, the letter t e m p and another percent sign).  Windows Explorer should open to the temporary folder.
3) Press TAB to move to the file list
4) Press N and move down to find up to three files:  nvda.log (the log file for the current or most recent NVDA session), nvda-old.log (the log from the previous session) and nvda-crash.dmp (a crash dump with more information created if NVDA itself crashes).
5) Depending on what email program you use, the steps will be different, but attach as many of those three files to an email to info@... as will be useful, and again in the body of the message describe a bit about what has happened.


On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 5:54 AM Chris via groups.io <chrismedley=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:

No idea why, but if you use the save configuration option in nvda menu it should then save the settings as you want them to be before exiting nvda

 

 

 

From: ken lawrence via groups.io
Sent: 02 March 2021 16:18
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] strange reverting issue on a restart

 

Hi group a strange thing has happened the last couple days on NVDA while most of my settings are in tact, every time I restart my computer for the day, the punctuation/symbol level somehow reverts to most where I have it on some to cut down on the verbiage.  I reset it in speech settings but the next day it’s back.  I have doublechecked to make sure save configuration on exit is checked and if NVDA is exited and restarted it’s fine but with the computer restarting that punctuation level changes back to most.  I also see mouse tracking is on when the computer is restarted.  This has happened for the last couple day.  Any thought on why? 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Problem with NVDA, email, and Esys 80 cell Braille display

John Wells
 

Many thanks for this info. Will give it a try later. John.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2021 8:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with NVDA, email, and Esys 80 cell Braille display

I should have added that I use speech with NVDA and it works well.

I thought of a possible work around. Try using the reading pane. I don't
know how you do this using Braille, but using speech, when you are on a
message in the list, tabbing once moves you into the reading pane. For some
reason, you may not be able to read an opened message, but the view pane may
allow you to read it.

I read mail as text. It’s a little safer and I don't want each message I
arrow to in the list to be opened in the view pane when reading messages as
HTML.

There is a very easy way to read a message as HTML. In the viewpane, use
the command alt shift h. That will display that message as HTML while you
are on it.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: John Wells via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2021 1:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with NVDA, email, and Esys 80 cell Braille
display

My problem is purely with NVDA and windows live mail. When using Jaws the
braille works well and is instant. No matter what I try with NVDA when I
open an email the braille simply shows the word payne. If it cannot be
rectified, I will have to stay with Jaws. John Wells.


-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2021 7:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with NVDA, email, and Esys 80 cell Braille
display

What accessibility software doesn't it work well with? it works well with
NVDA. I use Windows Live Mail as my main e-mail program.

I've seen some reports of slowness concerning Thunderbird. I don't have
excessive slowness with Thunderbird, but on my computer, it takes longer to
open messages. It may take about three seconds to open a message. Windows
Live Mail opens them much faster. The lag in Thunderbird is really annoying
and it wastes time.

I don't knw what other peoples' experience is, but speed is the main reason
I use Windows Live Mail instead of Thunderbird.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2021 12:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with NVDA, email, and Esys 80 cell Braille
display

On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 03:37 AM, John Wells wrote:
I still use windows live mail for my emails-
And you really, really shouldn't. I was a big fan of WLM even for some
years after it was out of support, but it is showing its age particularly
badly when coupled with accessibility software as time marches on.

It makes sense to switch to a currently supported email client that is
likely to remain in support into the foreseeable furture. Thunderbird is my
first choice if you don't have access to MS-Outlook. eM Client is not
horrible, either, but not anywhere near to as comprehensively accessible as
T-bird or Outlook.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

~ Anton Chekhov


Re: Problem with NVDA, email, and Esys 80 cell Braille display

Gene
 

I should have added that I use speech with NVDA and it works well.

I thought of a possible work around. Try using the reading pane. I don't know how you do this using Braille, but using speech, when you are on a message in the list, tabbing once moves you into the reading pane. For some reason, you may not be able to read an opened message, but the view pane may allow you to read it.

I read mail as text. It’s a little safer and I don't want each message I arrow to in the list to be opened in the view pane when reading messages as HTML.

There is a very easy way to read a message as HTML. In the viewpane, use the command alt shift h. That will display that message as HTML while you are on it.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: John Wells via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2021 1:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with NVDA, email, and Esys 80 cell Braille display

My problem is purely with NVDA and windows live mail. When using Jaws the
braille works well and is instant. No matter what I try with NVDA when I
open an email the braille simply shows the word payne. If it cannot be
rectified, I will have to stay with Jaws. John Wells.


-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2021 7:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with NVDA, email, and Esys 80 cell Braille
display

What accessibility software doesn't it work well with? it works well with
NVDA. I use Windows Live Mail as my main e-mail program.

I've seen some reports of slowness concerning Thunderbird. I don't have
excessive slowness with Thunderbird, but on my computer, it takes longer to
open messages. It may take about three seconds to open a message. Windows
Live Mail opens them much faster. The lag in Thunderbird is really annoying
and it wastes time.

I don't knw what other peoples' experience is, but speed is the main reason
I use Windows Live Mail instead of Thunderbird.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2021 12:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with NVDA, email, and Esys 80 cell Braille
display

On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 03:37 AM, John Wells wrote:
I still use windows live mail for my emails-
And you really, really shouldn't. I was a big fan of WLM even for some
years after it was out of support, but it is showing its age particularly
badly when coupled with accessibility software as time marches on.

It makes sense to switch to a currently supported email client that is
likely to remain in support into the foreseeable furture. Thunderbird is my
first choice if you don't have access to MS-Outlook. eM Client is not
horrible, either, but not anywhere near to as comprehensively accessible as
T-bird or Outlook.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

~ Anton Chekhov


Re: Problem with NVDA, email, and Esys 80 cell Braille display

John Wells
 

My problem is purely with NVDA and windows live mail. When using Jaws the braille works well and is instant. No matter what I try with NVDA when I open an email the braille simply shows the word payne. If it cannot be rectified, I will have to stay with Jaws. John Wells.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2021 7:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with NVDA, email, and Esys 80 cell Braille display

What accessibility software doesn't it work well with? it works well with
NVDA. I use Windows Live Mail as my main e-mail program.

I've seen some reports of slowness concerning Thunderbird. I don't have
excessive slowness with Thunderbird, but on my computer, it takes longer to
open messages. It may take about three seconds to open a message. Windows
Live Mail opens them much faster. The lag in Thunderbird is really annoying
and it wastes time.

I don't knw what other peoples' experience is, but speed is the main reason
I use Windows Live Mail instead of Thunderbird.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2021 12:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with NVDA, email, and Esys 80 cell Braille
display

On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 03:37 AM, John Wells wrote:
I still use windows live mail for my emails-
And you really, really shouldn't. I was a big fan of WLM even for some
years after it was out of support, but it is showing its age particularly
badly when coupled with accessibility software as time marches on.

It makes sense to switch to a currently supported email client that is
likely to remain in support into the foreseeable furture. Thunderbird is my
first choice if you don't have access to MS-Outlook. eM Client is not
horrible, either, but not anywhere near to as comprehensively accessible as
T-bird or Outlook.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

~ Anton Chekhov


Re: Problem with NVDA, email, and Esys 80 cell Braille display

Gene
 

What accessibility software doesn't it work well with? it works well with NVDA. I use Windows Live Mail as my main e-mail program.

I've seen some reports of slowness concerning Thunderbird. I don't have excessive slowness with Thunderbird, but on my computer, it takes longer to open messages. It may take about three seconds to open a message. Windows Live Mail opens them much faster. The lag in Thunderbird is really annoying and it wastes time.

I don't knw what other peoples' experience is, but speed is the main reason I use Windows Live Mail instead of Thunderbird.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2021 12:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with NVDA, email, and Esys 80 cell Braille display

On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 03:37 AM, John Wells wrote:
I still use windows live mail for my emails-
And you really, really shouldn't. I was a big fan of WLM even for some years after it was out of support, but it is showing its age particularly badly when coupled with accessibility software as time marches on.

It makes sense to switch to a currently supported email client that is likely to remain in support into the foreseeable furture. Thunderbird is my first choice if you don't have access to MS-Outlook. eM Client is not horrible, either, but not anywhere near to as comprehensively accessible as T-bird or Outlook.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

~ Anton Chekhov


Re: strange reverting issue on a restart

Chris
 

No idea why, but if you use the save configuration option in nvda menu it should then save the settings as you want them to be before exiting nvda

 

 

 

From: ken lawrence via groups.io
Sent: 02 March 2021 16:18
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] strange reverting issue on a restart

 

Hi group a strange thing has happened the last couple days on NVDA while most of my settings are in tact, every time I restart my computer for the day, the punctuation/symbol level somehow reverts to most where I have it on some to cut down on the verbiage.  I reset it in speech settings but the next day it’s back.  I have doublechecked to make sure save configuration on exit is checked and if NVDA is exited and restarted it’s fine but with the computer restarting that punctuation level changes back to most.  I also see mouse tracking is on when the computer is restarted.  This has happened for the last couple day.  Any thought on why? 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 


Re: Problem with NVDA, email, and Esys 80 cell Braille display

 

On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 03:37 AM, John Wells wrote:
I still use windows live mail for my emails
-
And you really, really shouldn't.  I was a big fan of WLM even for some years after it was out of support, but it is showing its age particularly badly when coupled with accessibility software as time marches on.

It makes sense to switch to a currently supported email client that is likely to remain in support into the foreseeable furture.  Thunderbird is my first choice if you don't have access to MS-Outlook.  eM Client is not horrible, either, but not anywhere near to as comprehensively accessible as T-bird or Outlook.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


Re: strange reverting issue on a restart

Gene
 

Does the installed version of NVDA save settings in the registry? The portable version certainly doesn't. But the behavior you describe, being able to shut down NVDA, then open it again and not lose settings but having two settings being lost sounds to me like a minor registry problem. We'll see what others say about whether the installed version stores settings in the registry.

As for mouse tracking, why do you have it off? If you have a mouse, a physical mouse, and move it around, NVDA will read what is under the mouse as it moves if mouse tracking is on. If it is off, you can move the mouse and hear nothing. Also, I believe that if mouse tracking is on, if you move the virtual mouse, NVDA key numpad slash, you will hear what is under it announced, thus verifying that the virtual mouse moved when you attempt to move it. This is useful information. In other words, unless you are letting a sighted person use the computer who doesn't want such feedback, I see no advantage in turning mouse tracking off. It has nothing to do with how the mouse or virtual mouse moves. So I think mouse tracking should be left on, as is the default. When I move the virtual mouse, I want to hear if it moved because at times, it doesn't on some web pages or perhaps elsewhere.

If you leave mouse tracking on, changing punctuation once a day is such a small inconvenience, it may not be worth ;putting effort into solving the problem.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: ken lawrence via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2021 10:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] strange reverting issue on a restart



Hi group a strange thing has happened the last couple days on NVDA while most of my settings are in tact, every time I restart my computer for the day, the punctuation/symbol level somehow reverts to most where I have it on some to cut down on the verbiage. I reset it in speech settings but the next day it’s back. I have doublechecked to make sure save configuration on exit is checked and if NVDA is exited and restarted it’s fine but with the computer restarting that punctuation level changes back to most. I also see mouse tracking is on when the computer is restarted. This has happened for the last couple day. Any thought on why?



Sent from Mail for Windows 10


strange reverting issue on a restart

ken lawrence
 

Hi group a strange thing has happened the last couple days on NVDA while most of my settings are in tact, every time I restart my computer for the day, the punctuation/symbol level somehow reverts to most where I have it on some to cut down on the verbiage.  I reset it in speech settings but the next day it’s back.  I have doublechecked to make sure save configuration on exit is checked and if NVDA is exited and restarted it’s fine but with the computer restarting that punctuation level changes back to most.  I also see mouse tracking is on when the computer is restarted.  This has happened for the last couple day.  Any thought on why? 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Problem with NVDA, email, and Esys 80 cell Braille display

John Wells
 

Luke, I can now get the braille to work. When I open an email the only word showing on the braille display is Payne. However, if I tab once NVDA says documents and I can then read everything with the braille display. Is there something I could amend in Settings to ensure it always went to documents, rather than just showing the word payne? Thank you for your help. John Wells.

-----Original Message-----
From: Luke Davis
Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2021 8:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with NVDA, email, and Esys 80 cell Braille display

It depends on your configuration. When you were setting up NVDA, you either set
the NVDA key to be the capslock key, the insert key, or the numpad insert key.
or some or all of the above.

Luke

On Tue, 2 Mar 2021, John Wells via groups.io wrote:

I am very new to NVDA, having used Jaws for years. I still use windows live mail for my emails and the braille works fine with jaws. However, when I open an
email using NVDA the text is read to me but the braille simply lands on the word payne and does not move. You suggested I press NVDA plus control T. What
is the key for NVDA in this case please. John Wells.

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