Date   

Re: some messages are very slow in Outlook

Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

Yes, Narrator does automatically read messages, if you turn on the Make Outlook More Efficient tick box. If it is off, it behaves like NVDA.

All the best

Steve

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-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: 16 March 2021 18:32
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] some messages are very slow in Outlook

Does Narrator automatically start reading messages? I think I'd find that annoying, but I really don't understand why NVDA has so many problems with Outlook either. For instance, I have to use UI Automation, otherwise Outlook crashes, but only when NVDA is being used, and now this, which people have observed, but nobody has given me a solution to fix.

On 3/16/21, Steve Nutt <steve@comproom.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,

Yes, I can confirm that messages are a lot faster in Narrator. Also,
if you have Narrator's Use Outlook More Efficiently checkbox checked,
it doesn't read all the message header garbage. NVDA could learn a lot
from Narrator with Outlook.

Also, NVDA doesn't read the whole message, so you have to initiate a
read all, or cursor down through the messages.

All the best

Steve

--
To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to
https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

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77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
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T: +44(0)1438-742286
M: +44(0)7956-334938
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W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte
Single
Sent: 13 March 2021 09:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] some messages are very slow in Outlook

I notice some messages are slow, such as messages from;
Amazon, audible, my bank, yes, messages from buisnesses.
Regular mail from individuals or email lists are fine.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Pranav
Lal
Sent: March 13, 2021 1:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] some messages are very slow in Outlook

Bob,

I have seen this and suspect the problem is the HTML markup of the messages.
Uber's messages would have some very cluttered HTML and perhaps
javascript which could be slowing NVDA down.

Pranav





















Re: some messages are very slow in Outlook

Mike Sedmak
 

I enabled UI automation for Outlook yesterday afternoon. Since then I
have had zero outlook crashes even though I have opened dozens of the
types of emails that crashed regularly without UI automation.

I am pretty convinced that UI automation also fixed my outlook crashing issue.

UI automation also improved Outlook accessibility in a few other ways:
1. Now Tables in HTML emails correctly read the headers when I use
table navigation, like tables on a web site
2. The scheduling assistant tab now correctly seems to choose the next
available time instead of getting stuck or suggesting I hold my
meetings in the middle of the night.

FWIW I created a profile for outlook so that is the only place I am
using UI automation.

Are the NVDA devs considering enabling UI automation by default on a
per app basis in a future release?

Thanks,
Mike

On 3/16/21, Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@gmail.com> wrote:
Strange. Are you using UI Automation or not? That seems to have solved
the crashing issue for me, but it's also strange that you can't
reproduce the issue reliably. For me, restarting never worked, and I
can reproduce the issues I've described pretty reliably running
Outlook 2016. Messages from Xfinity sometimes do it, but not as
reliably as those from Uber. Groupon sends out so many different types
of emails that I can't guarantee every one of their messages will have
issues, but the messages that all use the same template do all have
issues. I have no idea whether this is a bug with Outlook or NVDA, but
I came from System Access, and had very few problems with that screen
reader. One message was causing a problem with a particular DLL, but
fixing that file fixed that problem. System Access read every Groupon
message without having to change any setting deep in the advanced
settings, nor did it ever slow down with certain HTML messages.

On 3/16/21, Mike Sedmak <mcsedmak@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting. I also get a not reproducable error with outlook 365.
It seems to only be html and rich text emails.
Sometimes opening one causes outlook to crash. But after closing and
restarting, outlook can usually open that same email without issue.
I have no way of reproducing the issue as I never know which email
will be the one waiting to crash outlook.
But I have had this crash happen more than 9 times today.

nvda 2020.4
outlook 365 updated per company IT settings
windows 10 patched up to date per company IT settings

At this point all the emails that I have seen are company
confidential, so I can not share an example.

I suspect this is an outlook bug not an nvda bug. Any tips on how to
submit a report to MS? My local IT has not been that helpful getting
a bug filed on MS.

Thanks,
Mike

On 3/16/21, Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@gmail.com> wrote:
Someone other than me is probably better to tell you what it does, but
checking the box solves the problem for me in certain messages. Most
of the time it's fine for me too, but I get a particular set of
messages where Outlook crashes. I'm not sure what causes it in these
messages, but it does, and UI Automation solves it.

On 3/16/21, Vaibhav Saraf <vaibhav.s.acc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

How do we use UI Automation with NVDA? I never toggled that sort of
setting, my Outlook - NVDA combo seems to work fine.

Thanks,
Vaibhav


On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 at 00:01, Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@gmail.com>
wrote:

Does Narrator automatically start reading messages? I think I'd find
that annoying, but I really don't understand why NVDA has so many
problems with Outlook either. For instance, I have to use UI
Automation, otherwise Outlook crashes, but only when NVDA is being
used, and now this, which people have observed, but nobody has given
me a solution to fix.

On 3/16/21, Steve Nutt <steve@comproom.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,

Yes, I can confirm that messages are a lot faster in Narrator. Also,
if
you
have Narrator's Use Outlook More Efficiently checkbox checked, it
doesn't
read all the message header garbage. NVDA could learn a lot from
Narrator
with Outlook.

Also, NVDA doesn't read the whole message, so you have to initiate a
read
all, or cursor down through the messages.

All the best

Steve

--
To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to
https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
T: +44(0)1438-742286
M: +44(0)7956-334938
F: +44(0)1438-759589
E: steve@comproom.co.uk
W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte
Single
Sent: 13 March 2021 09:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] some messages are very slow in Outlook

I notice some messages are slow, such as messages from;
Amazon, audible, my bank, yes, messages from buisnesses.
Regular mail from individuals or email lists are fine.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Pranav
Lal
Sent: March 13, 2021 1:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] some messages are very slow in Outlook

Bob,

I have seen this and suspect the problem is the HTML markup of the
messages.
Uber's messages would have some very cluttered HTML and perhaps
javascript
which could be slowing NVDA down.

Pranav









































Re: Why are some Greek letters read in Unicode values, not with their actual letter

 

In English, it says something like "I love and believe". That is a translation from Facebook.





On 3/17/2021 3:44 AM, Nikos Demetriou via groups.io wrote:
Hi.
By doing a quick research it is religious part from the bible.
It is taken from Mathew's book chapter 14 line 30 if I understand right.
Nikos

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 at 09:34, Marco Oros <marco.oros93@...> wrote:

Yeah, It is really something, like koiné Greek, or Ancient Greek.

But, what is It?

I think on this text.

Dňa 17. 3. 2021 o 8:12 Nikos Demetriou via groups.io napísal(a):
Hi.
I am using the latest alpha portable and the espeak voice is set to Greek with automatic language swiching disabled.

It reads fine here.
The text is either religious or ancient Greek which uses the Greek polytonick system.
I am pasting here the text from your message and then I will tell you what are the unknown letters.

Εὖ δοῦλε ἀγαθὲ καὶ πιστέ

There is Ypsilon with psili perispomeni. First word second letter.
On the second word Ypsilon perispomeni third letter.
On the third word Alpha psili and epsilon varia. First and last letters.
On the forth word Yota varia last letter.
On the fifth word there isn't anything.

Nikos



On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 at 22:31, Governor staten <govsta@...> wrote:
I have a short piece of Greek text here. I'm using ESpeak in the latest
alpha of NVDA. There are some of the letters in this that are given
Unicode values, not whatever they are, as a named letter. I'll put the
text below.


Εὖ δοῦλε ἀγαθὲ καὶ πιστέ


Use left and right arrow, and you can see what I am speaking of.







Re: PDF in Web Browser - NVDA says embedded object unavailable

Sarah k Alawami
 
Edited

That might not always be the case. I’ve had it say that, and in some cases all I have to do is click “fit to page” and the text appears. Try that first.

 

Good luck.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 7:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] PDF in Web Browser - NVDA says embedded object unavailable

 

I agree with Gene.  The most likely problem is that this PDF so happens to be an image-scanned PDF without any text layer associated with it.  They are out there by the millions, particularly for older scanned PDF files.

Either try NVDA OCR or download the file and use whatever OCR processing you may prefer to add a text layer to the entire document.  The latter is easier if the document is long, at least to me, or if it's something you intend to refer to later.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 

 


Re: PDF in Web Browser - NVDA says embedded object unavailable

 

I agree with Gene.  The most likely problem is that this PDF so happens to be an image-scanned PDF without any text layer associated with it.  They are out there by the millions, particularly for older scanned PDF files.

Either try NVDA OCR or download the file and use whatever OCR processing you may prefer to add a text layer to the entire document.  The latter is easier if the document is long, at least to me, or if it's something you intend to refer to later.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


Re: Column selection in word

Yeti
 

Hello William and All,

Do you mean although nvda speak the content of other cell,
What I tryed and what happened:
1. I have a Table with 2 columns and about 50 rows. In the second / right column, there are only low numbers, such as 3, 14 or 42.
2. I navigated to the second cell and pressed Alt+Shift+PGDN as proposed.
3. NVDA announced something like "3456 letters marked" and I couldn't believe it.
4. I pressed CTRL+C, opened notepad and pasted with CTRL+V.

There were the about 50 numbers with together about 60 characters and nothing else ...

Ad Astra

Yeti


Re: New japanese keyboard

Clement Chou
 

alt+` still switches between romaji and kana. To switch to Katakana,
use alt+capslock. ctrl+capslock for hiragana. That's how it works for
me still.

On 3/17/21, Marco Oros <marco.oros93@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello.

I have a question to japanese people. I don't know, if I have asked this
question before, but how to switch in new japanese keyboard in Windows
10 from Hiragana to Katakana or Romaji ETC, using keyboard shortcuts?

Thank You.

Best regards

Marco Oros







Re: Column selection in word

Sylwek Piekarski
 

Yes, if you do as I wrote, only this part of the table will be selected in your case only three cells in the column.
Keyboard shortcuts for Word to navigate in the table are:
ALT + HOME - First cell in a row
Alt + End - Last cell a row,
Alt + PGUP - First cell in column,
Alt + PGDN - Last cell in column.
When you use these  Shortcut with the SHIFT key, only this area will be select on which the cursor moves.


W dniu 17.03.2021 o 13:03, William pisze:

Do you mean although nvda speak the content of other cell, actually word has not selected them?


Yeti 於 17/3/2021 19:47 寫道:
Hello Sylwek,

I tested out that it work only if the table is empty.
Yes, it looks like this, but this is an issue of NVDA.

When You copy the marked text by pressing CTRL+C and paste it on another place, You will see it.

At least that was the case with me in word 2019.

Ad Astra

Yeti








Re: Column selection in word

William
 

Do you mean although nvda speak the content of other cell, actually word has not selected them?


Yeti 於 17/3/2021 19:47 寫道:

Hello Sylwek,

I tested out that it work only if the table is empty.
Yes, it looks like this, but this is an issue of NVDA.

When You copy the marked text by pressing CTRL+C and paste it on another place, You will see it.

At least that was the case with me in word 2019.

Ad Astra

Yeti





Re: Column selection in word

Yeti
 

Hello Sylwek,

I tested out that it work only if the table is empty.

Yes, it looks like this, but this is an issue of NVDA.

When You copy the marked text by pressing CTRL+C and paste it on another place, You will see it.

At least that was the case with me in word 2019.

Ad Astra

Yeti


Re: PDF in Web Browser - NVDA says embedded object unavailable

Gene
 

To test this, we have to be sure the pdf file is not an image. If it is not an image, you should be able to read it. I don't know a page that has a PDF file that is not an image. If someone doesn't post a link to one in a reasonable time, I'll find one.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Mert Anlar
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:24 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] imbedded object unavailable issue

hi folks;

when I try to read pdf documents on either chrom or edge, NVDA says
imbedded object unavailable and the rest of the page is blank, don't
know how to handle it.

what should I do in this case, any help would be appreciated.

thanks


Re: Column selection in word

William
 

Thanks, I tested out that it work only if the table is empty.

If it is not empty, when I do so I found that nvda will also speak the cells from the other columns.


Sylwek Piekarski 於 17/3/2021 17:07 寫道:

Set the cursor in the first cell of the second row.
Press ALT + SHIFT + PGDN and all cells down will be selected.
Open the context menu and select the merge cells.


W dniu 17.03.2021 o 08:01, William pisze:
Hi all

I have the following problem.

I have a 5x5 table in word.

With the first row as the column title and the rest are the table content. But the first column of the content (first cell of row 2 to first cell of fifth row) apply to the rest of the content.

So i wanna combine the above mentioned 4 cells.

Do you know how to do this using NVDA?

Thanks,









PDF in Web Browser - NVDA says embedded object unavailable

Mert Anlar
 
Edited

hi folks;

when I try to read pdf documents on either chrom or edge, NVDA says embedded object unavailable and the rest of the page is blank, don't know how to handle it.

what should I do in this case, any help would be appreciated.

thanks


Re: Column selection in word

Sylwek Piekarski
 

Set the cursor in the first cell of the second row.
Press ALT + SHIFT + PGDN and all cells down will be selected.
Open the context menu and select the merge cells.


W dniu 17.03.2021 o 08:01, William pisze:

Hi all

I have the following problem.

I have a 5x5 table in word.

With the first row as the column title and the rest are the table content. But the first column of the content (first cell of row 2 to first cell of fifth row) apply to the rest of the content.

So i wanna combine the above mentioned 4 cells.

Do you know how to do this using NVDA?

Thanks,






New japanese keyboard

Marco Oros
 

Hello.

I have a question to japanese people. I don't know, if I have asked this question before, but how to switch in new japanese keyboard in Windows 10 from Hiragana to Katakana or Romaji ETC, using keyboard shortcuts?

Thank You.

Best regards

Marco Oros


Re: Why are some Greek letters read in Unicode values, not with their actual letter

 

Hi.
By doing a quick research it is religious part from the bible.
It is taken from Mathew's book chapter 14 line 30 if I understand right.
Nikos

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 at 09:34, Marco Oros <marco.oros93@...> wrote:

Yeah, It is really something, like koiné Greek, or Ancient Greek.

But, what is It?

I think on this text.

Dňa 17. 3. 2021 o 8:12 Nikos Demetriou via groups.io napísal(a):
Hi.
I am using the latest alpha portable and the espeak voice is set to Greek with automatic language swiching disabled.

It reads fine here.
The text is either religious or ancient Greek which uses the Greek polytonick system.
I am pasting here the text from your message and then I will tell you what are the unknown letters.

Εὖ δοῦλε ἀγαθὲ καὶ πιστέ

There is Ypsilon with psili perispomeni. First word second letter.
On the second word Ypsilon perispomeni third letter.
On the third word Alpha psili and epsilon varia. First and last letters.
On the forth word Yota varia last letter.
On the fifth word there isn't anything.

Nikos



On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 at 22:31, Governor staten <govsta@...> wrote:
I have a short piece of Greek text here. I'm using ESpeak in the latest
alpha of NVDA. There are some of the letters in this that are given
Unicode values, not whatever they are, as a named letter. I'll put the
text below.


Εὖ δοῦλε ἀγαθὲ καὶ πιστέ


Use left and right arrow, and you can see what I am speaking of.







Re: Why are some Greek letters read in Unicode values, not with their actual letter

Marco Oros
 

Yeah, It is really something, like koiné Greek, or Ancient Greek.

But, what is It?

I think on this text.

Dňa 17. 3. 2021 o 8:12 Nikos Demetriou via groups.io napísal(a):

Hi.
I am using the latest alpha portable and the espeak voice is set to Greek with automatic language swiching disabled.

It reads fine here.
The text is either religious or ancient Greek which uses the Greek polytonick system.
I am pasting here the text from your message and then I will tell you what are the unknown letters.

Εὖ δοῦλε ἀγαθὲ καὶ πιστέ

There is Ypsilon with psili perispomeni. First word second letter.
On the second word Ypsilon perispomeni third letter.
On the third word Alpha psili and epsilon varia. First and last letters.
On the forth word Yota varia last letter.
On the fifth word there isn't anything.

Nikos



On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 at 22:31, Governor staten <govsta@...> wrote:
I have a short piece of Greek text here. I'm using ESpeak in the latest
alpha of NVDA. There are some of the letters in this that are given
Unicode values, not whatever they are, as a named letter. I'll put the
text below.


Εὖ δοῦλε ἀγαθὲ καὶ πιστέ


Use left and right arrow, and you can see what I am speaking of.







Re: Column selection in word

Quentin Christensen
 

Quick follow up.  The UIA issue isn't around merged cells - it's blank cells - it just happens that the table I setup for this had blank cells I tried to navigate through which were next to the merged cells.  Here is the issue for that: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/11043

Reiterating what I noted previously, I'd recommend not using UIA in Word for now when using tables *with blank cells*.  If you're not sure what UIA in Word is, you most likely don't have it set, so you shouldn't need to worry :)

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 6:19 PM Quentin Christensen via groups.io <quentin=nvaccess.org@groups.io> wrote:
Hi William,

If you select the cells you want to merge - ie move to row 2, column 1, then shift+down arrow to select through to row 5 column 1 - you can then press the applications key to open the context menu and choose "Merge" (Press M twice then enter).  That works with a couple of caveats:
- Moving to the cell to the right of the merged cells will, in this case, always move to the topmost cell to the right - ie row 2, column 2.
- If you set headers, NVDA will read that header each time you change rows, even though it's the same for all those merged cells.
- If you set NVDA to use UI Automation (in NVDA's advanced settings), it gets a bit confused about when you are in the table when part of the table is merged like this.  I'll explore it further and write up the issue, but for now, I'd recommend not using UIA in Word for tables.

If you are interested in learning more about tables and Word in general, we have the "Microsoft Word with NVDA" module you might be interested: https://www.nvaccess.org/product/microsoft-word-training-for-nvda-ebook/

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 6:01 PM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Hi all

I have the following problem.

I have a 5x5 table in word.

With the first row as the column title and the rest are the table
content. But the first column of the content (first cell of row 2 to
first cell of fifth row) apply to the rest of the content.

So i wanna combine the above mentioned 4 cells.

Do you know how to do this using NVDA?

Thanks,









--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Column selection in word

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi William,

If you select the cells you want to merge - ie move to row 2, column 1, then shift+down arrow to select through to row 5 column 1 - you can then press the applications key to open the context menu and choose "Merge" (Press M twice then enter).  That works with a couple of caveats:
- Moving to the cell to the right of the merged cells will, in this case, always move to the topmost cell to the right - ie row 2, column 2.
- If you set headers, NVDA will read that header each time you change rows, even though it's the same for all those merged cells.
- If you set NVDA to use UI Automation (in NVDA's advanced settings), it gets a bit confused about when you are in the table when part of the table is merged like this.  I'll explore it further and write up the issue, but for now, I'd recommend not using UIA in Word for tables.

If you are interested in learning more about tables and Word in general, we have the "Microsoft Word with NVDA" module you might be interested: https://www.nvaccess.org/product/microsoft-word-training-for-nvda-ebook/

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 6:01 PM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Hi all

I have the following problem.

I have a 5x5 table in word.

With the first row as the column title and the rest are the table
content. But the first column of the content (first cell of row 2 to
first cell of fifth row) apply to the rest of the content.

So i wanna combine the above mentioned 4 cells.

Do you know how to do this using NVDA?

Thanks,









--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Why are some Greek letters read in Unicode values, not with their actual letter

 

Hi.
I am using the latest alpha portable and the espeak voice is set to Greek with automatic language swiching disabled.

It reads fine here.
The text is either religious or ancient Greek which uses the Greek polytonick system.
I am pasting here the text from your message and then I will tell you what are the unknown letters.

Εὖ δοῦλε ἀγαθὲ καὶ πιστέ

There is Ypsilon with psili perispomeni. First word second letter.
On the second word Ypsilon perispomeni third letter.
On the third word Alpha psili and epsilon varia. First and last letters.
On the forth word Yota varia last letter.
On the fifth word there isn't anything.

Nikos



On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 at 22:31, Governor staten <govsta@...> wrote:
I have a short piece of Greek text here. I'm using ESpeak in the latest
alpha of NVDA. There are some of the letters in this that are given
Unicode values, not whatever they are, as a named letter. I'll put the
text below.


Εὖ δοῦλε ἀγαθὲ καὶ πιστέ


Use left and right arrow, and you can see what I am speaking of.






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