Date   

Re: Is there a more complete Emoji dictionary anywhere for Espeak?

Luke Davis
 

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021, Steve Nutt wrote:

I am using NVDA more and more now in my daily work, but I do find it frustrating that Espeak doesn’t pronounce many Emojis correctly.  For example, the
Colon followed by Right Bracket, should be “Smiling Face with Smiling Eyes”. But it is oddly pronounced by Espeak as Twelve.
NVDA, provided you have the Unicode data turned on under speech settings, should be able to handle most or all common Emojis just fine.
But, I think you asked for Emojis, when you wanted Emoticons.

While you might find a list somewhere that equates the Emoticon colon right bracket, :], with the Emoji Smiling Face with Smiling Eyes, there's a good chance that most people will not know of that correlation these days.
Just use the real Emoji. I won't say that Emoticons are dieing, but I rarely see them any more beyond :) or :(.

Now, that said, since you are talking about emoticons, I have to say that neither Espeak nor OneCore handle Emoticons natively it appears.

Narrator handles a few, but it also simplifies them quite a bit to the basic smiley or frowney face description, and seems to ignore most of those I tried.
For example, both :) and :] are called "Smiley face" with Narrator, no matter what lists online claim :] should mean.

As to your terminology, please see:

Emoticon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon
Emoji: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji

Luke


Re: How to get NVDA speak a word

Luke Davis
 

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021, Brian Vogel wrote:

----- Hence the reason I object to the dictionary processing not dropping out upon first match.  That result is insane, and it's something that no rational
person would ever predict, and were something similar happening by accident rather than intent, be able to untangle.
While I agree that the result is not intuitive, I think it is necessary.
The only alternative I can see to this "match then continue with further matches" method, is to "match then start over and look for further matches".
That has infinite loop potentials I don't want to consider.

This is supposition on my part, but I believe the reason it continues searching the dictionary, is because there is literally no other way it can be done.
It doesn't process by word, but by speech item. And that's a good thing.

Consider the following.

Dictionary entry 1:
- in: house
- replacement: horse

Dictionary entry 2:
- in: brown
- replacement: red

Input text: I observe that the house is brown

In your preferred model, I think, it would find house, convert it to horse, and that would be the end of it--stop processing.

Output text: I observe that the horse is brown

The difficulty comes when you consider that there may be further processing that needs to be done to that speech item (let's think of it as a line).

You still want "brown" to become "red", but if we stopped processing, that could never happen.

So, the dictionary's patterns that remain are applied to the speech item (line) progressively, and we finally end up with:

Output text: I observe that the horse is red

But wait, you might say, the house/horse and brown/red are different word matches, why can't it just match by word instead of by the whole speech item?

To further demonstrate the reason why it has to be this way, consider dictionary entry 3.

Dictionary entry 3:
- in (regex): the ([a-z]+) is ([a-z]+)
- Replacement (regex): the portion of the \1 that I can see is \2
- Comment: The Fair witness rule

Okay, I haven't tested that regex (or any of these), but the idea is that at some point, the line, whether handled by a prior entry or not, will need to pass through that regex rule (rule 3).
If processing stopped on first match, the "Fair Witness rule" would never be encountered.

It's because the dictionary entries are each matched, individually, against the ENTIRE input text element (line).
If it stops for one, it has to stop for the entire line. (N.B. not always an actual line, might be a fragment or dialog title or whatever.)

In order for regular expressions, or even arbitrary non-regex character matches, to be possible, a text chunk needs to be tested against ALL the entries, not just the one that matches first.

If I might beat a dead house:

Dictionary rule 4.
- in: observe
- replacement: witness

If the dictionary stopped processing on any of the earlier rules, the word "observe" would never be matched, even though it wasn't referenced in any of the earlier patterns.
That, I suggest, would very much be contrary to user expectations.

If you need another example, not using regular expressions, of why it must be like this, I give you:

Dictionary entry 5:
- in: testing,
- replacement: breaking,

Dictionary entry 6:
- in: , emergency
- replacement: , fake

In order for the input text:

I am testing, emergency broadcasting

To become:

I am breaking, fake broadcasting

Both tests need to see the whole line. If either one of them got only the word "testing" or "emergency", they would fail. That's what I mean by arbitrary text strings.

The entire chunk needs to be presented to each entry.
I'm sure the intent is not specifically so you can convert a word, then convert the result, and so on, and so on, until you've created a Rube Goldbergian nightmare of a dictionary. But in order for the things we love about the dictionaries to work as they do, fall through to future rules has no choice but to be the way it works.

Now, I await someone who has actually read the dictionary code to come along and tell me why I am completely wrong; but until they do, I will assume the above to be accurate.

Luke


Is there a more complete Emoji dictionary anywhere for Espeak?

Steve Nutt
 

Hi all,

 

I am using NVDA more and more now in my daily work, but I do find it frustrating that Espeak doesn’t pronounce many Emojis correctly.  For example, the Colon followed by Right Bracket, should be “Smiling Face with Smiling Eyes”. But it is oddly pronounced by Espeak as Twelve.

 

Also the Android version of Espeak NG is pretty crap at emojis as well, so I am after trying to fix both of these, but before I do, is there any more complete Emoji .dic files anywhere?

 

Thanks.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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Re: The location of NVDA dictionaries (or the default dictionary, at the very least)

Luke Davis
 

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 07:02 PM, Sascha Cowley wrote:
FYI you can use environment variables in the address bar in windows explorer.

And in the run dialog, which is a godsend.


Re: Excel: Stop Saying "Formula Bar"

Pele West
 

Hi Pranav

Thanks so much. It worked!

This is the value of these lists.

Pele


Re: Outlook Microsoft 365 Quitting and then Restarting Spontaneously with Some Messages

Steve Nutt
 

Yes, I can reproduce this, but it is very random.

 

When it happens for me, NVDA is silent when I open a message, and then I hear Outlook reopen.

 

No crashes that I can detect, occur in JAWS or Narrator.

 

What I haven’t tried yet, is to disable the Outlook Extended add-on which could, of course, be another cause.

 

That’s my next trick when it starts crashing again.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Fettgather
Sent: 28 March 2021 06:17
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Outlook Microsoft 365 Quitting and then Restarting Spontaneously with Some Messages

 

Hello.

When opening some lengthy messages with lots of links using most recent NVDA, , Outlook will just quit and then restart itself, this never happens with Windows 10 Mail, so just wondering if anyone has experienced this phenomenon?

Thanks.

 

 


Re: problems with a punctuation mark

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Luke,

For myself, I change it to Apostrophe, because as soon as I hear the first syllable I know what it is and can interrupt it. Tick makes no sense at all.

All the best

Steve

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-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: 26 March 2021 22:46
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problems with a punctuation mark

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021, Steve Nutt wrote:

I was going to mention the Tick. Why is it pronounced Tick, when it
should be Apostrophe or Single Quote? I have changed it in mine, but it’s an odd default pronunciation.
Many screen readers have traditionally done that. ESpeak, as a voice, always has. I think the old IBM screen reader did as well, and possibly some of the other DOS screen readers.

A tick, is the British/Australian English term for what we in the US call a check mark. How that became the acceptable substitute term for the apostrophe, I have no idea, except that it's shorter, as Brian said. As far as I know, the apostrophe and the checkmark have never really looked alike.

Luke


Re: problems with a punctuation mark

Steve Nutt
 

It can, but it doesn’t consider beginning users, who would be confused by it.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 26 March 2021 13:35
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problems with a punctuation mark

 

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 08:21 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Why is it pronounced Tick, when it should be Apostrophe or Single Quote?

-
Steve,

I could swear that this was just discussed here, but it could have been on the JAWS group.

In programming circles in particular, when going through characters, brevity is valued.  It is a lot faster to say/hear tick for either apostrophe or single quote.  It is also very common for exclamation point to be announced as bang.

It's nothing more than a design choice based on a specific jargon convention.  It really can speed things up if you do a lot of character by character checking.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


Re: The location of NVDA dictionaries (or the default dictionary, at the very least)

 

Sascha,

               Thanks much.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: Excel: Stop Saying "Formula Bar"

Pranav Lal
 

Hi all,

 

There is a setting in excel called something like “edit directly in cell”. I think it is in the  advanced tab of the options dialogue. Toggle this and see what happens.

 

Pranav


Re: The location of NVDA dictionaries (or the default dictionary, at the very least)

Sascha Cowley
 

I just tried disabling show hidden items and using the address bar to navigate to %appdata%, and it worked fine.

On 2021-03-30 10:13, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 07:02 PM, Sascha Cowley wrote:
FYI you can use environment variables in the address bar in windows explorer.
-
Good to know.  I'm being lazy, but do you happen to know whether File Explorer will allow you to view any of what are the normally hidden files or folders if you do use the environment variables to get to them?  I'd suspect not, but don't know, and don't feel like experimenting at this moment or this evening, so I thought I'd ask.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: The location of NVDA dictionaries (or the default dictionary, at the very least)

 

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 07:02 PM, Sascha Cowley wrote:
FYI you can use environment variables in the address bar in windows explorer.
-
Good to know.  I'm being lazy, but do you happen to know whether File Explorer will allow you to view any of what are the normally hidden files or folders if you do use the environment variables to get to them?  I'd suspect not, but don't know, and don't feel like experimenting at this moment or this evening, so I thought I'd ask.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: The location of NVDA dictionaries (or the default dictionary, at the very least)

 

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 06:57 PM, Gene wrote:
There should be import and export dictionary commands in the speech dictionary dialog.
-
But there aren't, at least none that I can find.  And I'm not disagreeing with your idea, just reporting.

The .dic files are plain text files and you can use Notepad to view them (and edit them, though I would never recommend that, as the built-in editor prevents errors).  But, I do make one exception, and that's if you wanted to take someone else's dictionary and slap it either before your existing dictionary entries or after them.  The way things stand now, the only way I know of to do that is via a select all in the source .dic file, copying, then pasting in the location of your choosing in your own .dic file.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: Excel: Stop Saying "Formula Bar"

Sarah k Alawami
 

I'm at work righ tnow, but I have actually tired running the com reg tool, and it didn't work, it actually never did with the office app. It even does this with all add ons disabled. That's actually all the time I have right now. I'm actually waiting for a student.

--

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Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

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Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 29 Mar 2021, at 15:47, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 06:43 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I actually have that issue as well.
-
Then, if you are so inclined, jump right in as a second person running through the diagnostic steps, and report what you're finding as things move along.  If you're not so inclined that's fine, but it's often easier to see whether things remain exactly the same for two people experiencing a given issue while troubleshooting.  Often, if a divergence occurs, it's telling.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: The location of NVDA dictionaries (or the default dictionary, at the very least)

Sascha Cowley
 

FYI you can use environment variables in the address bar in windows explorer. The address bar can be accessed with `Alt`+`D` or `Ctrl`+`L`.


Re: The location of NVDA dictionaries (or the default dictionary, at the very least)

Gene
 

There should be import and export dictionary commands in the speech dictionary dialog. Saving and sharing dictionaries should be encouraged.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2021 5:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] The location of NVDA dictionaries (or the default dictionary, at the very least)

There may be some point in the future where copies of dictionary files are requested by a potential assistant, so I thought it important to discuss this.

Your dictionaries are located in the folder: %APPDATA%\nvda\speechDicts

If you are in command prompt, you could enter the command:
cd %APPDATA%\nvda\speechDicts
and you would be sitting in the NVDA dictionaries folder.

If you are using File Explorer, and no Windows defaults have been changed for folder locations, the %APPDATA% environment variable expands to C:\Users\{appropriate user designator}\AppData\Roaming. In my case, on my machine, that's: C:\Users\brite\AppData\Roaming. The exact path depends on your Windows 10 user account.

In order to view the %APPDATA% folder using File Explorer you mush have the File Option for Show hidden files and folders turned on.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.

~ Richard M. Nixon


Re: Excel: Stop Saying "Formula Bar"

 

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 06:43 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I actually have that issue as well.
-
Then, if you are so inclined, jump right in as a second person running through the diagnostic steps, and report what you're finding as things move along.  If you're not so inclined that's fine, but it's often easier to see whether things remain exactly the same for two people experiencing a given issue while troubleshooting.  Often, if a divergence occurs, it's telling.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: Excel: Stop Saying "Formula Bar"

Sarah k Alawami
 

I actually have that issue as well. When I edit my reports I hear "entering formula bar" when I hit f2 to edit and it doesn't matter what i enter, a call sign? Text? Numbers? What ever I enter I do hear it, and sometimes I do not.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 29 Mar 2021, at 9:49, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 12:37 PM, Pele West wrote:
Is there a setting to stop NVDA saying "Formula Bar" every time I type in a cell in Excel?
-
What are you typing?

If it is indeed a formula, this is NVDA's way of letting you know that Excel has caught that fact and the cell formula is being entered in the formula bar.

If it's just text, or a number, or something else then you shouldn't hear that announcement, as a formula has not been detected.

I know of no way to turn that off and, for myself, would not want to.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: Excel: Stop Saying "Formula Bar"

 

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 03:58 PM, Pele West wrote:
I am not sure where this gets us, but I thought I would let you know, anyway.
-
Nor am I, at least as far as a specific solution, but it's still a valuable comparison data point to have.

Have you tried the troubleshooting steps I requested earlier?  If not, please do, and you can stop before having done all three if numbers one or two fix the issue.  We really need to look into whether the most common fixes work or the most common offenders, add-ons, may be at play before going any further.

This is likely to be a "trial and error" diagnostic. 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


The location of NVDA dictionaries (or the default dictionary, at the very least)

 

There may be some point in the future where copies of dictionary files are requested by a potential assistant, so I thought it important to discuss this.

Your dictionaries are located in the folder:  %APPDATA%\nvda\speechDicts

If you are in command prompt, you could enter the command:
cd %APPDATA%\nvda\speechDicts
and you would be sitting in the NVDA dictionaries folder.

If you are using File Explorer, and no Windows defaults have been changed for folder locations, the %APPDATA% environment variable expands to C:\Users\{appropriate user designator}\AppData\Roaming.  In my case, on my machine, that's:  C:\Users\brite\AppData\Roaming.   The exact path depends on your Windows 10 user account.

In order to view the %APPDATA% folder using File Explorer you mush have the File Option for Show hidden files and folders turned on.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 

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