Date   

Re: Using gmail with "Basic HTML view" vs. "standard view"

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


I am sussing out gmail on the web you mention the 2 views and one standard view is better to use where are those 2 views found? if you wanted to sus them both out. Does it start off in standard view first? I did find the short cuts and turned them on been a radio button. \i also noted to change between browse and focus mode to see some sections in gmail. Plus noting shortcut keys etc that I might look at putting into a basic tutorial for gmail.


Gene nz


On 6/05/2021 8:31 am, accessible tech malayalam wrote:
Hello dear visually impaired friends,
Greetings from vi tech world!
Technology is developing in various different fields.
But, the future of technology is going to depend on websites and
web-based systems.
We, vi tech world is starting a training on fundamentals of web
development and WordPress for visually impaired learners.
Web development is a most demanded topic in the tech market since 2011.
This training is fully beginner level, and 100% accessible for
visually impaired candidates.
Anyone who has intermediate computer usage experience can join this course.
Note: no programming knowledge required.

Course details.
Name: fundamentals of web development and WordPress.
Start date for registration: May 6, 2021.
End date for registration: May 11, 2021.
Cost for the training: 3 USD or 221 INR.
Course duration: 20 days.

Concepts covered
1.       Fundamentals of html.
2.       Fundamentals of CSS
3.       Structural designing of websites for beginners.
4.       Basics of domain, hosting.
5.       Localhost for development.
6.       Hosting/ server management.
7.        SSL and Cloudflare.
8.       Introduction to PHP scripts and basic installation of WordPress.
9.       Fundamental setup of WordPress.
10.   Designing website interface.
11.   WordPress themes and plugins.
12.   Registering as a freelancer for online jobs on web development.
13.   Conclusion.

Prerequisites
Any visually impaired person that meets following criteria can join
this training.
·         Should be a visually impaired person
·         Should understand English
·         Should know at least basic computer skills and screen reader usage.
·         Should have their own laptop/desktop with windows 10).
·          Should have an active internet connection
·         Should be able to give 1 hour time per day for the course.

For more info and registration, contact us:
Email: haroonkareemofficial@...
Phone; +91 7593988738
WhatsApp: +918943031760
Telegram: https://t.me/tech_explorers



On 6/05/2021 10:16 am, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,

Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls.

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:01 PM Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:

Hi, Nimer,


This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find it.


Rosemarie



On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,

If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself, but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA.

Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame.

First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator, will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that command.

Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the messages, and easily type the label name where that message can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists, adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc. Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions, etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts.

I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse to open their minds to the possibility that there is a different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of devices that may benefit people more than what they have been accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the needs and desires of the person they are working with.

So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try to step out of the box, try something you may not be comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and methods out there which will enhance your productivity and make your life easier that don't require struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail, have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible, Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see the most work put into them these days in terms of accessibility and usability across many companies, simply because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux, Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not even a very fast one.)

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM Louise Pfau <lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi.  I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”.  This is probably due to the fact that when I was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
 
Louise


--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: online training on web development and word press for visually impaired.

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


Sorry some how it focused on the wrong email


Gene nz

On 6/05/2021 2:37 pm, hurrikennyandopo@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi


I am sussing out gmail on the web you mention the 2 views and one standard view is better to use where are those 2 views found? if you wanted to sus them both out. Does it start off in standard view first? I did find the short cuts and turned them on been a radio button. \i also noted to change between browse and focus mode to see some sections in gmail. Plus noting shortcut keys etc that I might look at putting into a basic tutorial for gmail.


Gene nz


On 6/05/2021 8:31 am, accessible tech malayalam wrote:
Hello dear visually impaired friends,
Greetings from vi tech world!
Technology is developing in various different fields.
But, the future of technology is going to depend on websites and
web-based systems.
We, vi tech world is starting a training on fundamentals of web
development and WordPress for visually impaired learners.
Web development is a most demanded topic in the tech market since 2011.
This training is fully beginner level, and 100% accessible for
visually impaired candidates.
Anyone who has intermediate computer usage experience can join this course.
Note: no programming knowledge required.

Course details.
Name: fundamentals of web development and WordPress.
Start date for registration: May 6, 2021.
End date for registration: May 11, 2021.
Cost for the training: 3 USD or 221 INR.
Course duration: 20 days.

Concepts covered
1.       Fundamentals of html.
2.       Fundamentals of CSS
3.       Structural designing of websites for beginners.
4.       Basics of domain, hosting.
5.       Localhost for development.
6.       Hosting/ server management.
7.        SSL and Cloudflare.
8.       Introduction to PHP scripts and basic installation of WordPress.
9.       Fundamental setup of WordPress.
10.   Designing website interface.
11.   WordPress themes and plugins.
12.   Registering as a freelancer for online jobs on web development.
13.   Conclusion.

Prerequisites
Any visually impaired person that meets following criteria can join
this training.
·         Should be a visually impaired person
·         Should understand English
·         Should know at least basic computer skills and screen reader usage.
·         Should have their own laptop/desktop with windows 10).
·          Should have an active internet connection
·         Should be able to give 1 hour time per day for the course.

For more info and registration, contact us:
Email: haroonkareemofficial@gmail.com
Phone; +91 7593988738
WhatsApp: +918943031760
Telegram: https://t.me/tech_explorers


Re: online training on web development and word press for visually impaired.

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


I am sussing out gmail on the web you mention the 2 views and one standard view is better to use where are those 2 views found? if you wanted to sus them both out. Does it start off in standard view first? I did find the short cuts and turned them on been a radio button. \i also noted to change between browse and focus mode to see some sections in gmail. Plus noting shortcut keys etc that I might look at putting into a basic tutorial for gmail.


Gene nz

On 6/05/2021 8:31 am, accessible tech malayalam wrote:
Hello dear visually impaired friends,
Greetings from vi tech world!
Technology is developing in various different fields.
But, the future of technology is going to depend on websites and
web-based systems.
We, vi tech world is starting a training on fundamentals of web
development and WordPress for visually impaired learners.
Web development is a most demanded topic in the tech market since 2011.
This training is fully beginner level, and 100% accessible for
visually impaired candidates.
Anyone who has intermediate computer usage experience can join this course.
Note: no programming knowledge required.

Course details.
Name: fundamentals of web development and WordPress.
Start date for registration: May 6, 2021.
End date for registration: May 11, 2021.
Cost for the training: 3 USD or 221 INR.
Course duration: 20 days.

Concepts covered
1. Fundamentals of html.
2. Fundamentals of CSS
3. Structural designing of websites for beginners.
4. Basics of domain, hosting.
5. Localhost for development.
6. Hosting/ server management.
7. SSL and Cloudflare.
8. Introduction to PHP scripts and basic installation of WordPress.
9. Fundamental setup of WordPress.
10. Designing website interface.
11. WordPress themes and plugins.
12. Registering as a freelancer for online jobs on web development.
13. Conclusion.

Prerequisites
Any visually impaired person that meets following criteria can join
this training.
· Should be a visually impaired person
· Should understand English
· Should know at least basic computer skills and screen reader usage.
· Should have their own laptop/desktop with windows 10).
· Should have an active internet connection
· Should be able to give 1 hour time per day for the course.

For more info and registration, contact us:
Email: haroonkareemofficial@gmail.com
Phone; +91 7593988738
WhatsApp: +918943031760
Telegram: https://t.me/tech_explorers


Re: Using gmail with "Basic HTML view" vs. "standard view"

molly the blind tech lover
 

i've been using the basic html view. i am going to try the standard view and see which i prefer.


On Wed, May 5, 2021, 8:41 PM Thomas N. Chan <thomas.nathan.chan@...> wrote:
As you use it often with the standard interface, I tried a few months back.
Its a real struggle but I can navigate up and down with just one hand to go through all those messages in the mailing list One arrow up or down, the next message If you use basic view, you are going to hit more than once.
You can even move left or right arrow when you can in the conversation view, to see the subject and who send it and also the date the message was sent.
If you are not interested to read that particular conversation or thread, mark it with an x. You can snooze, archive it or even trash it.


Regards,
Thomas N. Chan


On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:46 AM molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

i am really interested in this topic.
i just started using gmail on the web as of last week. and while it takes some getting used to i find it easier to use than outlook. i still use the gmail on my pixel 5 too.


On Wed, May 5, 2021, 7:36 PM Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:
Once you open the message, press n. Then, if you want to read the message in more detail, press insert+space to go into browse mode, then navigate as you would a web page.

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:28 PM Jonathan Milam <milamj@...> wrote:
What is the easiest way to navigate quickly to the body of a message in the GMAIL interface with NVDA?



On May 5, 2021, at 6:17 PM, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:


Hello,

Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls.

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:01 PM Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:

Hi, Nimer,


This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find it.


Rosemarie



On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,

If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself, but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA.

Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame.

First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator, will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that command.

Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the messages, and easily type the label name where that message can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists, adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc. Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions, etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts.

I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse to open their minds to the possibility that there is a different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of devices that may benefit people more than what they have been accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the needs and desires of the person they are working with.

So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try to step out of the box, try something you may not be comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and methods out there which will enhance your productivity and make your life easier that don't require struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail, have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible, Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see the most work put into them these days in terms of accessibility and usability across many companies, simply because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux, Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not even a very fast one.)

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM Louise Pfau <lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi.  I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”.  This is probably due to the fact that when I was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
 
Louise


--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Using gmail with "Basic HTML view" vs. "standard view"

Thomas N. Chan
 

As you use it often with the standard interface, I tried a few months back.
Its a real struggle but I can navigate up and down with just one hand to go through all those messages in the mailing list One arrow up or down, the next message If you use basic view, you are going to hit more than once.
You can even move left or right arrow when you can in the conversation view, to see the subject and who send it and also the date the message was sent.
If you are not interested to read that particular conversation or thread, mark it with an x. You can snooze, archive it or even trash it.


Regards,
Thomas N. Chan


On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:46 AM molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

i am really interested in this topic.
i just started using gmail on the web as of last week. and while it takes some getting used to i find it easier to use than outlook. i still use the gmail on my pixel 5 too.


On Wed, May 5, 2021, 7:36 PM Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:
Once you open the message, press n. Then, if you want to read the message in more detail, press insert+space to go into browse mode, then navigate as you would a web page.

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:28 PM Jonathan Milam <milamj@...> wrote:
What is the easiest way to navigate quickly to the body of a message in the GMAIL interface with NVDA?



On May 5, 2021, at 6:17 PM, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:


Hello,

Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls.

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:01 PM Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:

Hi, Nimer,


This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find it.


Rosemarie



On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,

If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself, but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA.

Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame.

First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator, will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that command.

Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the messages, and easily type the label name where that message can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists, adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc. Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions, etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts.

I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse to open their minds to the possibility that there is a different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of devices that may benefit people more than what they have been accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the needs and desires of the person they are working with.

So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try to step out of the box, try something you may not be comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and methods out there which will enhance your productivity and make your life easier that don't require struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail, have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible, Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see the most work put into them these days in terms of accessibility and usability across many companies, simply because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux, Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not even a very fast one.)

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM Louise Pfau <lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi.  I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”.  This is probably due to the fact that when I was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
 
Louise


--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Using gmail with "Basic HTML view" vs. "standard view"

David Moore
 

I totally agree with you! I like using the short cut keys for the internet like. I can go faster with basic HTML as well! I really don’t like the shortcuts built in to the Google suite!


On Wed, May 5, 2021, 4:28 PM Louise Pfau <lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi.  I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”.  This is probably due to the fact that when I was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
 
Louise


Re: Using gmail with "Basic HTML view" vs. "standard view"

molly the blind tech lover
 

i am really interested in this topic.
i just started using gmail on the web as of last week. and while it takes some getting used to i find it easier to use than outlook. i still use the gmail on my pixel 5 too.


On Wed, May 5, 2021, 7:36 PM Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:
Once you open the message, press n. Then, if you want to read the message in more detail, press insert+space to go into browse mode, then navigate as you would a web page.

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:28 PM Jonathan Milam <milamj@...> wrote:
What is the easiest way to navigate quickly to the body of a message in the GMAIL interface with NVDA?



On May 5, 2021, at 6:17 PM, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:


Hello,

Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls.

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:01 PM Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:

Hi, Nimer,


This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find it.


Rosemarie



On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,

If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself, but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA.

Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame.

First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator, will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that command.

Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the messages, and easily type the label name where that message can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists, adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc. Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions, etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts.

I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse to open their minds to the possibility that there is a different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of devices that may benefit people more than what they have been accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the needs and desires of the person they are working with.

So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try to step out of the box, try something you may not be comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and methods out there which will enhance your productivity and make your life easier that don't require struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail, have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible, Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see the most work put into them these days in terms of accessibility and usability across many companies, simply because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux, Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not even a very fast one.)

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM Louise Pfau <lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi.  I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”.  This is probably due to the fact that when I was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
 
Louise


--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Using gmail with "Basic HTML view" vs. "standard view"

Nimer Jaber
 

Once you open the message, press n. Then, if you want to read the message in more detail, press insert+space to go into browse mode, then navigate as you would a web page.


On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:28 PM Jonathan Milam <milamj@...> wrote:
What is the easiest way to navigate quickly to the body of a message in the GMAIL interface with NVDA?



On May 5, 2021, at 6:17 PM, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:


Hello,

Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls.

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:01 PM Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:

Hi, Nimer,


This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find it.


Rosemarie



On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,

If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself, but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA.

Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame.

First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator, will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that command.

Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the messages, and easily type the label name where that message can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists, adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc. Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions, etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts.

I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse to open their minds to the possibility that there is a different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of devices that may benefit people more than what they have been accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the needs and desires of the person they are working with.

So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try to step out of the box, try something you may not be comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and methods out there which will enhance your productivity and make your life easier that don't require struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail, have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible, Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see the most work put into them these days in terms of accessibility and usability across many companies, simply because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux, Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not even a very fast one.)

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM Louise Pfau <lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi.  I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”.  This is probably due to the fact that when I was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
 
Louise


--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Using gmail with "Basic HTML view" vs. "standard view"

Jonathan Milam
 

What is the easiest way to navigate quickly to the body of a message in the GMAIL interface with NVDA?



On May 5, 2021, at 6:17 PM, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:


Hello,

Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls.

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:01 PM Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:

Hi, Nimer,


This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find it.


Rosemarie



On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,

If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself, but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA.

Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame.

First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator, will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that command.

Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the messages, and easily type the label name where that message can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists, adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc. Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions, etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts.

I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse to open their minds to the possibility that there is a different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of devices that may benefit people more than what they have been accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the needs and desires of the person they are working with.

So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try to step out of the box, try something you may not be comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and methods out there which will enhance your productivity and make your life easier that don't require struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail, have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible, Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see the most work put into them these days in terms of accessibility and usability across many companies, simply because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux, Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not even a very fast one.)

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM Louise Pfau <lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi.  I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”.  This is probably due to the fact that when I was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
 
Louise


--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Using gmail with "Basic HTML view" vs. "standard view"

Nimer Jaber
 

Hello,

Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls.

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:01 PM Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:

Hi, Nimer,


This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find it.


Rosemarie



On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,

If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself, but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA.

Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame.

First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator, will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that command.

Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the messages, and easily type the label name where that message can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists, adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc. Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions, etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts.

I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse to open their minds to the possibility that there is a different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of devices that may benefit people more than what they have been accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the needs and desires of the person they are working with.

So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try to step out of the box, try something you may not be comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and methods out there which will enhance your productivity and make your life easier that don't require struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail, have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible, Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see the most work put into them these days in terms of accessibility and usability across many companies, simply because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux, Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not even a very fast one.)

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM Louise Pfau <lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi.  I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”.  This is probably due to the fact that when I was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
 
Louise


--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Using gmail with "Basic HTML view" vs. "standard view"

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Nimer,


This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find it.


Rosemarie



On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,

If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself, but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA.

Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame.

First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator, will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that command.

Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the messages, and easily type the label name where that message can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists, adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc. Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions, etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts.

I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse to open their minds to the possibility that there is a different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of devices that may benefit people more than what they have been accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the needs and desires of the person they are working with.

So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try to step out of the box, try something you may not be comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and methods out there which will enhance your productivity and make your life easier that don't require struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail, have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible, Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see the most work put into them these days in terms of accessibility and usability across many companies, simply because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux, Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not even a very fast one.)

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM Louise Pfau <lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi.  I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”.  This is probably due to the fact that when I was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
 
Louise


--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: NVDA - Inconsistent Behavior when working with MS-Outlook

Nimer Jaber
 

Sarah,

You can do all those things you mentioned, and so much more, but if Outlook is working for you, then I'm happy for you.

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 12:22 PM Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

EWW. No. I love outlook and use it. I can’t open multiple conversation’s in separate windows at once in gmail and read them all at once, or rather I can’t open multiple threads of a conversation all at once and read that in gmail. I can do that in outlook just fine. I also cannot do delayed sending, go offline and still write messages, and so much more. Plus it works grate with NvDA now that I know its quirks. I only use gmail to manage my labels as that is easier.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 9:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA - Inconsistent Behavior when working with MS-Outlook

 

Just use Gmail on the web with the standard interface and see all your Outlook frustrations go out the window.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 9:24 AM Steve Nutt <steve@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

NVDA is pretty inefficient with Outlook I would say.

 

Just load Narrator, check the box in settings that says Make The Narrator More Efficient in outlook and be happy.

 

It will just read the messages, no fuss.

 

NVDA’s problem is that it can’t cope well with graphics heavy messages, it appears to me.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

 

Computer Room Services

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Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Matthew Peters
Sent: 22 April 2021 15:05
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA - Inconsistent Behavior when working with MS-Outlook

 

Greetings,

 

I am a IT guy trying to find solutions for a colleague who uses NVDA. A quick history. My colleague was first introduced to NVDA about a year ago when his computer was upgraded from Windows XP to Windows 10. This required a new screen reader solution which is when I found NVDA. He started using NVDA with relatively few issues and it was running well for the last year. He predominantly uses the desktop for email and OCR tasks so I had Office 2016 and Kurzweil 1000 installed. Recently his computer needed replacement so I set him up with a new computer with Windows 10 release 19042 and Office 2019. We immediately had issues with Outlook. Most of the issues revolve around opening of the email message. Initially I thought this may be due to the Office 2019 install so I rolled it back to Office 2016. This helped a little but issues still exist. One example that started today rather abruptly was that NVDA would read the header information for the message that was opened but would not read the body. I found that I could get some read by right clicking the mouse then left clicking, but that would only read the line the cursor was on. I’ve tried restarting both NVDA and Outlook as well as the computer without any success. I feel like I may not have Outlook or NVDA configured properly. Could anyone provide some insight on what maybe happening and any steps I could take towards rectifying it?

 

Matt Peters

Network & Systems Administrator

St. Johnsbury Academy

mpeters@...

(802) 751-2390​

 

Confidentiality Notice: This email may contain information protected under the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) or the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If this email contains confidential and/or privileged health or student information and you are not entitled to access such information under FERPA or HIPAA, federal regulations require that you destroy this email without reviewing it and you may not forward it to anyone.


 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Using gmail with "Basic HTML view" vs. "standard view"

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 04:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself,
-
I'd attempt a coup, but then I would own this group!  Horrors!

The only thing I'll add is agreement with the general principle that revisiting "what I've always done" and "what I've always avoided" is a very good thing to do on a cyclic basis.  And particularly when it comes to webmail, but way more generally than that.

Nothing is so constant as change, and nowhere is change more constant than in the world of computing.  And when it comes to accessibility, it has done nothing but improve in the big picture as time has marched on (and that's acknowledging that there are episodes of "two steps forward, one step back").
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: Using gmail with "Basic HTML view" vs. "standard view"

Nimer Jaber
 

Hello,

If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself, but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA.

Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame.

First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator, will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that command.

Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the messages, and easily type the label name where that message can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists, adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc. Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions, etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts.

I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse to open their minds to the possibility that there is a different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of devices that may benefit people more than what they have been accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the needs and desires of the person they are working with.

So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try to step out of the box, try something you may not be comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and methods out there which will enhance your productivity and make your life easier that don't require struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail, have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible, Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see the most work put into them these days in terms of accessibility and usability across many companies, simply because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux, Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not even a very fast one.)

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM Louise Pfau <lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi.  I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”.  This is probably due to the fact that when I was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
 
Louise



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


online training on web development and word press for visually impaired.

accessible tech malayalam
 

Hello dear visually impaired friends,
Greetings from vi tech world!
Technology is developing in various different fields.
But, the future of technology is going to depend on websites and
web-based systems.
We, vi tech world is starting a training on fundamentals of web
development and WordPress for visually impaired learners.
Web development is a most demanded topic in the tech market since 2011.
This training is fully beginner level, and 100% accessible for
visually impaired candidates.
Anyone who has intermediate computer usage experience can join this course.
Note: no programming knowledge required.

Course details.
Name: fundamentals of web development and WordPress.
Start date for registration: May 6, 2021.
End date for registration: May 11, 2021.
Cost for the training: 3 USD or 221 INR.
Course duration: 20 days.

Concepts covered
1. Fundamentals of html.
2. Fundamentals of CSS
3. Structural designing of websites for beginners.
4. Basics of domain, hosting.
5. Localhost for development.
6. Hosting/ server management.
7. SSL and Cloudflare.
8. Introduction to PHP scripts and basic installation of WordPress.
9. Fundamental setup of WordPress.
10. Designing website interface.
11. WordPress themes and plugins.
12. Registering as a freelancer for online jobs on web development.
13. Conclusion.

Prerequisites
Any visually impaired person that meets following criteria can join
this training.
· Should be a visually impaired person
· Should understand English
· Should know at least basic computer skills and screen reader usage.
· Should have their own laptop/desktop with windows 10).
· Should have an active internet connection
· Should be able to give 1 hour time per day for the course.

For more info and registration, contact us:
Email: haroonkareemofficial@gmail.com
Phone; +91 7593988738
WhatsApp: +918943031760
Telegram: https://t.me/tech_explorers

--
with best regards, Haroon kareem T.K


Using gmail with "Basic HTML view" vs. "standard view"

Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”.  This is probably due to the fact that when I was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
 
Louise


Re: Where are we with Seika braille displays driver?

Mallard
 

Hello,


Thanks... No. The thingy isn't working well atall!


I have had this Seika v5 for almost eight years now, but I had used it mostly as a reading device unconnected to a pc, as it can read fro a pendrive.


Now that my pm 40 is practically ead, and most of all, now that I'm mainly using Zhengdu Screen rEader (that only supporta Seika displays), I am using the device on my pc, also with NVDA.


While it works on Zhengdu, it doesn't on NVDA, forthe reasons I stated in my previous message.


You can't scroll horizontally, which is a really time-consuming operation, but I needit for many differentl anguages.


I hopethe issue is solved soon...


Ciao, stay safe, and thanks for replying!

Ollie

On 05/05/2021 18:05, Deenadayalan Moodley wrote:
Hi Ollie,

I recently had to setup a Seika V5 braille display. According to the person who is using it, it is now working well. But, I must add, it is the first time this person is using a braille display and may not be getting the best out of this unit.

Thanks.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mallard
Sent: Wednesday, 05 May 2021 13:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Where are we with Seika braille displays driver?

Hello all,


For ages now, the Seika braille displays no longer work with NVDA. there are several issues, some of which have always been there, but the most annoying one, which prevents me from owrking at all, is the impossibility to pan horizontally along a line.


One can only see the first 40 charachets of any line, after which there is no other way to move on than right-arrowing till the display finally reaches the second part of the line.


I read more than once, on this list as well, that the problem was being worked on, but to date I have no news of a solution.


Have i missed anything? It's quite possible, sice I haven't followed the
list much lately, but I haven't found naything relevant in the arhive.


Sorry if there are posts that I have missed.


Mods, please, don't bite my head off if the question has already been
answered! lol!


Stay safe,

Ollie










Re: Where are we with Seika braille displays driver?

Mallard
 

Hello Joseph,


Many thanks for your reply - kind and exhaustive as usual.


Stay well and stay safe,

Ollie

On 05/05/2021 18:13, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
It is indeed being worked on - latest news from GitHub is that folks are testing it after porting Seika driver to Python 3, which took a while to complete.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mallard
Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 4:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Where are we with Seika braille displays driver?

Hello all,


For ages now, the Seika braille displays no longer work with NVDA. there are several issues, some of which have always been there, but the most annoying one, which prevents me from owrking at all, is the impossibility to pan horizontally along a line.


One can only see the first 40 charachets of any line, after which there is no other way to move on than right-arrowing till the display finally reaches the second part of the line.


I read more than once, on this list as well, that the problem was being worked on, but to date I have no news of a solution.


Have i missed anything? It's quite possible, sice I haven't followed the
list much lately, but I haven't found naything relevant in the arhive.


Sorry if there are posts that I have missed.


Mods, please, don't bite my head off if the question has already been
answered! lol!


Stay safe,

Ollie










Re: NVDA - Inconsistent Behavior when working with MS-Outlook

Sarah k Alawami
 

EWW. No. I love outlook and use it. I can’t open multiple conversation’s in separate windows at once in gmail and read them all at once, or rather I can’t open multiple threads of a conversation all at once and read that in gmail. I can do that in outlook just fine. I also cannot do delayed sending, go offline and still write messages, and so much more. Plus it works grate with NvDA now that I know its quirks. I only use gmail to manage my labels as that is easier.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 9:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA - Inconsistent Behavior when working with MS-Outlook

 

Just use Gmail on the web with the standard interface and see all your Outlook frustrations go out the window.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 9:24 AM Steve Nutt <steve@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

NVDA is pretty inefficient with Outlook I would say.

 

Just load Narrator, check the box in settings that says Make The Narrator More Efficient in outlook and be happy.

 

It will just read the messages, no fuss.

 

NVDA’s problem is that it can’t cope well with graphics heavy messages, it appears to me.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Matthew Peters
Sent: 22 April 2021 15:05
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA - Inconsistent Behavior when working with MS-Outlook

 

Greetings,

 

I am a IT guy trying to find solutions for a colleague who uses NVDA. A quick history. My colleague was first introduced to NVDA about a year ago when his computer was upgraded from Windows XP to Windows 10. This required a new screen reader solution which is when I found NVDA. He started using NVDA with relatively few issues and it was running well for the last year. He predominantly uses the desktop for email and OCR tasks so I had Office 2016 and Kurzweil 1000 installed. Recently his computer needed replacement so I set him up with a new computer with Windows 10 release 19042 and Office 2019. We immediately had issues with Outlook. Most of the issues revolve around opening of the email message. Initially I thought this may be due to the Office 2019 install so I rolled it back to Office 2016. This helped a little but issues still exist. One example that started today rather abruptly was that NVDA would read the header information for the message that was opened but would not read the body. I found that I could get some read by right clicking the mouse then left clicking, but that would only read the line the cursor was on. I’ve tried restarting both NVDA and Outlook as well as the computer without any success. I feel like I may not have Outlook or NVDA configured properly. Could anyone provide some insight on what maybe happening and any steps I could take towards rectifying it?

 

Matt Peters

Network & Systems Administrator

St. Johnsbury Academy

mpeters@...

(802) 751-2390​

 

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Re: NVDA - Inconsistent Behavior when working with MS-Outlook

 

Hi,

I and others can confirm Brian’s assertion, as Office releases from 2016 onwards are numbered 16.0 internally – what’s different is build number (third and fourth number) and the maintenance branch they come from). This will also be the case for Office 2021 as it is a culmination of work done in Microsoft 365 since Office 2019 with certain features turned off.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 9:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA - Inconsistent Behavior when working with MS-Outlook

 

On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 11:09 PM, Monte Single wrote:

How is outlook 360 (sic) more accessible than outlook?

-
That claim was never made.   All versions of Outlook from 2016 forward come from the same common code base, and are substantially similar, all the way through 365.  Note that "substantially similar" is not "exactly the same in every respect," but mighty darned close for most routine tasks.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

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